Saturday, May 13, 2023

How Big Is Big? How Small Is Small? Crackpot Prophet Pretends To Solve That Problem


It is fun to watch the little upstart COG's constantly trying to justify how little and insignificant their groups are. With well over 12 years along for the improp[erly named "continuing" Church of "god", the growth is minuscule with its only measurable "growth" being church-hopping Sabbatarians in Africa who change church affiliations faster than American COG people do.

The littler they are the more magnificent they claim to be as God's only chosen people who are doing a "work" today.

One of Bob Thiel's Canadian acolytes did a sermon on big churches vs little churches.

How big is big? How small is small? 

Big is a relative term. When talking about God’s church, how big is big? Small is a relevant term. Using the universe as an example, everything is very small. What about the ‘day of small things’? Herb Haddon discusses not only size issues, but shows many photographs of Harvey Station, New Brunswick–the location of the headquarters of the Continuing Church of God in Canada. He also discusses worship at various churches.

Haddon looks back longingly at WCG's Canadian office and its POBox number. Box 44 supposedly had prophetic implications. Yep, Arstrongiete craziness has no end to its nuttiness. 

Haddon goes on to describe the town where Bob has his Canadian "office " and proceeds to have photos of various buildings in the city from restaurants to the Post Office where he has a photo of the POBox of the greatest work the Canadians have ever seen.

Haddon then gets to pictures of neighborhood churches and proceeds to mock them all as false Christians.

Haddon then lets us in on how many TRUE Christs there are in the area. Three! Two men and one woman. Three!

This ladies and gentlemen is the face of the greatest Church of God to ever exist in human history. Preordained by God himself to arise in these perilous end times to witness to the world the dreams and fantasies of Dr. Robert Thiel. Bwana Bob is lucky if he can count on both hands the total members he has in the entire nation of Canada. And yet, we are supposed to believe that since they are so small they are doing work. What a crock of craziness!

It is a pretty strong indication from all the present Church of God and former Church of God members in Canada that Bwana Bob has been INCAPABLE of drawing these people into his little group.

Bob can brag all he wants about how little his group is and what powerful work it is doing. He is not. It's a lie meant to deceive gullible people. His filth is right up there next to Gerad Fkurry, Dave Pack, and Ron Weinland's lies.

Friday, May 12, 2023

Crackpot Prophet Bob Thiel Claims If You Do Not Join His Cult Then Your Salvation Is At Risk For Failing To Acknowledge His Leadership

It's been a while since we had the Church of God's looniest prophet featured here. After his African debacle, he has tried to stay out of the limelight and focused on his usual topics of conspiracy claptrap. That ended today when he tried to lecture us all on the great apostasy and the failure of COG members to heed proper church government in which we need to recognize that he and he alone is the one true end-time church leader.

After ranting about the Worldwide Church of God debunking Herbert Armstrong's junk, he continued to spread the myth that Tkach Sr was the man of sin and that corruption entered the church because people refuse to follow proper church government. The bullshit is piled high in his post. 

He then ends with this tripe:

Notice that Herbert Armstrong believed that God mainly worked through the leadership of one man at a time to lead various phases of the work. Scripture, shows for example, that the mantle passed from Elijah to Elisha (2 Kings 2:9-15). The ‘mantle’ would currently be with the person/group that truly functioned as the ‘pillar and ground of truth’ (1 Timothy 3:15).

For fifty years in the second century, according to Herbert W. Armstrong, that man was Polycarp:

It is significant that after his release John trained Polycarp elder of Smyrna, a city near Ephesus in the province of Asia. … At neighboring Smyrna, Polycarp presided over the Church of God for half a century after John’s death. Polycarp stood up boldly for the truth while many fell away and began having fellowship with the Catholic bishops of Rome. History relates that following the example of Peter, Paul and John, Polycarp wrote many letters to congregations and individuals, though all these have perished, save one in an edited version. (Armstrong HW. The Church They Couldn’t Destroy. Good News, December 1981)

For over 50 years in the 20th century, it was Herbert W. Armstrong.

And in the 21st century, that one man is not in any of the independent or more structured Laodicean groups.

Support the remnant of the Philadephian era and God’s work today.

Do not delay (cf. Zephaniah 2:1-3).

Herbert Armstrong would never have recognized Bob Thiel as a legitimate Church of God leader let alone as a real minister. He would've kicked Bob to the curb so fast even his holistic butt salve would not help him. 

Dave Pack: Who Needs Christ When We Look Towards Elijah Coming ?


Now…We Wait


The Restored Church of God has a big problem on its hands. David C. Pack finally concluded “The Greatest Unending Story!" with a bag. I mean, bang. What are they doing with all this spare time?


There is plenty of resources available to publish some kind of warning. Should the Splinters be alerted of the danger to come? If outgoing love and concern were a foundational trait of Headquarters, they could exercise brotherly love and release the sermons publicly.


Dave, Coffee Kid, and Pepper Boy could craft a powerfully written article that is impossible to argue with, overloaded with proofs and metrics that only a fool would ignore. The UCG, COGwa, LCG, PCG, and CGI members could relive 2013 with what will certainly happen—SOON!


Pentecost is observed by the Herbert W. Armstrong off-shoots on Sunday, May 28.


The Jewish people observe Shavuot this year on Friday, May 26. Oh, those silly Jews.


Daniel has been unsealed. The Mystery of God is ended. The Kingdom Plan has been “made plain.” All we have left is to wait “yet a little while” for Elijah to put on his Big Boy Pants “before Pentecost.”


Hug your mother extra tight this Sunday. It could be for the last time before “raging world hell” erupts.



Part 441, on May 6, 2023, was loaded with laughter. The awkward 35 seconds after the sermon was over (but not) was an instant classic. I will never forget Kim Kardashian’s underwear making it onto the prophetic landscape.


But, it was not all fun and games. The following entry for David C. Pack’s Gallery of Stupid failed to reach the monumental heights of Stephen being killed for criticizing the Jewish Christmas tree, but few dumb things are.


Part 441 – May 6, 2023

@ 02:45 And I and I began to realize the Book of Revelation was over 600 years old when Christ said that [Luke 21:22] because Ezekiel ate it…Ezekiel ate the Book of Revelation. So, the fact that Christ delivered it 65 years after He died through John isn’t relevant. The book is an old, old book. In fact, Revelation is older than a number of the minor prophets. So, in the mind of God and certainly, in the mind of Ezekiel, the little book of Revelation certainly was written.


The HWA folks would have plenty of background on where the “Ezekiel ate Revelation” teaching originated. This is not new. But Dave dips his toes into the Time Travel Paradox Pool.


He felt the need to inject the age of the book as a fact. If he wanted to follow the logic further, he could have considered that the eternal God is outside time. I would argue that Revelation was written before Creation. He is not a “make it up as we go along” kind of Being.


Now, with logic only Stephen Hawking or Christopher Nolan could grasp, it would mean Dave is also thousands of years old because he will/did speak with Daniel and the apostle John, and his words were recorded in the Book of Revelation.


My head already hurts. Walking away from this.



Dave gave the Bible translators a parting wedgie on his way out the door. The second half of the King James version of Hosea 11:12 was not up to snuff.


@ 52:30 Here’s an example of of of trying to deal with a with a terrible mistranslation. “But, Judah yet rules with God and is faithful with the saints.” What? What's that? And the answer is a grievous, horrific, the worst mistranslation (probably) in the Bible.


@ 52:56 Here’s what here’s what the Hebrew actually says… “And Judah is yet wayward towards God and toward the Holy One who is faithful.” Anybody see a problem? It had it has nothing to do with the saints. It idn’t there a. They’re the quintessential opposite of faithful toward toward the saints and and and ruling with God.


When Dave makes a claim but withholds his source, rest assured it is obscure. If a Greek or Hebrew word has thirty options, he picks the one he needs to sell his wares. This is along the same lines. He found a translation that made his point and ran with it.


Through the marvel of the interwebs and the tremendous resources at, I found the version he was quoting. It was not one of the usual suspects.


JPS Tanakh 1917

…And Judah is yet wayward towards God, And towards the Holy One who is faithful.


Dave could have used a more popular version that says the same thing.


New International Version

…And Judah is unruly against God, even against the faithful Holy One.


Fun fact: The JPS is a “literal” translation. The NIV is a “free interpretation.”


Dave remembers very well that the NIV is never to be used for establishing True Church doctrine. So, his hands were tied with going that route openly. Instead, he stated his claims without proving where he got them and crossed his fingers that the RCG Sleepyheads would not bother to fact-check him.


The Hosea 11:12 second half was a vital link in his prophetic framework. It HAD to fit, or his theory would fall apart. Much like a mathematician solving a long equation that almost works, he just needs that one number to be slightly different, so the whole thing fits perfectly. Without that wincing squeak-past number fudging, the result dissolves.


Engineers and architects understand the details that make the difference between stability and collapse. Chemists care about whether compounds react or overreact. Doctors pay attention to prescribing rather than over-prescribing.


But not David C. Pack. Doctrinal precision is now a magic show of misdirection and sleight of hand. He is a timeshare salesman still applying pressure tactics even as the hurricane sirens blare. He is a politician who breaks his own laws. He is a judge that overturns his own rulings.


David C. Pack is a man who changes the rules of a sports game after it has already started just so he can pull ahead and quit abruptly as a winner. Dennis Diehl loves that story.



The desperate Hosea 11:12 contortion results from flawed non-spirit-led "inspired preaching." When Dave puts his most-valuable prophetic egg in the Miss Translation basket, a small amount of research becomes a risky tripping hazard.


Thankfully, I have plenty of personal time to do a little digging.


Of the thirty-two Bible translations of Hosea 11:12, fourteen support Dave's theory, while eighteen oppose.


18 Bible translations say Judah IS with God.

14 Bible translations say Judah is NOT with God.


This is the sort of kindling atheists love to throw on the debate fire. Flip a coin as to which is accurate.


When Dave needs the verse to say Judah is with God, he will use that one. When he needs the verse to say Judah is not with God, he has the proof. Since he calls his own tie-breaker, the outcome is predictable.


I am no college professor, but an 18/14 split does not sound like a "grievous, horrific, and the worst mistranslation.” But, I am just a lowly, unordained non-prophet/non-psychic.


How correct the Jewish Publication Society is is not the point. Dave was so desperate to make his construct fit that he had to go beyond the margins to outsource references that supported his ideas. This is another game-breaking precedent for The Restored Church of God.


This is how things are now in The Restored Church of Another god. Any translation will do. The Bible has surrogates. “Because I said so” theology.


David C. Pack has at least thirty-two differing translations to cherry-pick from whenever he needs to. Now that the JPS Tanakh 1917 version has proven to be accurate with a half-verse in Hosea, does RCG need to replace the King James as their doctrinal go-to?


No. The JPS will go no further. If brethren started looking deeper into this translation, it would create even more uncomfortable questions for the uncomfortable field ministers.


For fun, I looked up David C. Pack’s favorite pet verse that he has been misquoting for a decade. After all, he has been rushing to call it out and make it plain for the members of The Restored Church of God. Surely the JPS can shed a more-acceptable light on Habakkuk 2:3.


JPS Tanakh 1917

And the LORD answered me, and said:

Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables,

That a man may read it swiftly.


Dave has long contended that Habakkuk 2:3 shows him writing and then calling it out. The Jewish Publication Society disagrees. There are two separate people present, the writer and the reader.


Do not expect this version to make hay with Part 442 and beyond. Consistency is a crutch for the weak. The JPS Tanakh 1917 is a temporary Pick-A-Part for Bible doctrine in this specific case.



@ 1:08:28 Now, the Last Great Day cannot be kept because God intends to move it. He delays it one month, and the world gets the great gets Tribulation and then the Great Tribulation instead.


At least that is better than when Dave moved it to after the Days of Unleavened Bread. Yeah, that was a thing a month ago that feels like ancient history.


Dave then takes the church on an 11-minute tour of his Speculation Garden.


@ 1:11:07 So, I’m gonna present a case. A possibility that’s really possibilities. It’s a fairly strong one. I’m not certain, but I wanna tell you some things that I’ve learned.


The value of uncertain teachings is up for debate. Calling a theory things "learned" is also open to interpretation. David C. Pack does not have a stellar track record for the longevity of his verbal musings.


@ 1:16:47 So, we’re we’re beginning to ask the serious question, is this [shot glass] Kingdom a half? Is this Kingdom a half a year long?


When Dave poses the question, the answer is Yes. He leads brethren through the proofs, then concludes with a riveting “I’m not asserting this.” He plants the seed for an “I was right” strut watered with plausible deniability.


@ 1:21:00 For the moment, and I’m perfectly willing to state permly a half-ish, but maybe it's actually a half. 


This is his fatigue-related diminished communication capacity’s version of “perhaps” and “firmly” pressed into a hybrid sandwich of verbal efficiency.


The brilliance of David C. Pack has now transcended normal human perception.


@ 1:22:01 …’cause this is my last message, and then there comes a point where after {my} his last message, it will surely come. There nothing else to tell you.


Part 442 will prove otherwise. But Dave truly saved the best for last. He cannot end the Series without focusing on himself.



@ 1:23:26 "Mr. Pack, I've been listening, really paying attention for years to things you've explained, and I don't understand what happened to a number of things in your instructions.”


Dave sets up a long sequence of “rhetorical questions” imaginary brethren may have. At the end of the 27-minute section, you might think he would end with "I don't know" in a faux-humble attitude.


Nope. It is all about Elijah. Elijah answers all the questions. Reading the portions not highlighted aloud helps you see what the brethren are subjected to for hours each week.


@ 1:27:40 In Matthew 17 and Mark 12 says, “Elijah comes first.” “Mr. Pack, when did you learn you were Elijah?” And I would have to stammer. Do you understand? I don’t know. I still don’t know when I became an apostle. So, I’ve wondered, Okay, would you would you at some point, I mean, I and I looked at some of the things I’ve explained am I am I explaining this to God’s people as an apostle and a teacher or as a prophet? It feels more it’s always felt more like an apostle and a teacher. Way more than anybody else has, but it it, I'm not I'm not speaking words put in my mouth.


He cannot help but get defensive. It must be so exhausting to be continuously keeping that guard up.


@ 1:38:43 Now, I told you a while back I had this assignment that I was to make plain (my job ultimately in my last message) was to make plain the first three verses of Habakkuk. So, let’s just go over there. Did I did I I was partly right.


The question was not worth finishing. Just make the point about being partly right. Yikes.



This is when the RCG internal alarm bells should have gone off. If only they were not stuffed with complacent cotton. Those who stopped listening to Dave do themselves a disservice. Ignoring abuse does not erase it from existence.


@ 1:42:06 I mean, I I would love to think we’re just waiting for Christ and eternal life. That does not appear any longer to be possible. Unless God’s gonna do the biggest thing he’s ever done on Earth and say nothing about it.


@ 1:45:00 In any event, in any event, it should be very clear, brethren, it should be very, very clear that an Elijahn period arises…


@ 1:47:40 Therefore (potentially) there is a 3 ½-day period of {me} Elijah.


@ 1:47:58 And that could start at the beginning of the six months because it's not Christ who's coming on a Sabbath. It's world hell (potentially) off of the rise of {me} Elijah on a Sabbath.


@ 1:48:54 So, I do not think we’re waiting for Christ except indirectly unless all those verses, you just fold'em away, and they’re gone. They just don’t fit. Fold’em. All those verses mean something else.


If this is wrong, then the Bible is wrong. Add this to all the other times that was the case.


@ 1:50:34 I don’t know how it’ll be. Maybe we don’t have to wait till Sabbath. Maybe we have to wait’ll the next Sabbath. Or, maybe in some way, but it looks like “it will surely come” is that that “it won’t tarry, it will surely come” is not talking about Christ. It’s talking about a great announcement across the world, and the last thing I’m supposta do while we wait for this terrible vision is tell you about it. Call it out. Close the sermon with it. I don’t know how the Mystery of God for us could remotely be over without knowing this. So, Godspeed whatever day’s gonna do this…



The brethren of The Restored Church of God are NOT waiting for Jesus Christ to return.


The brethren of The Restored Church of God are waiting for David C. Pack to become Elijah.


Elijah was relegated to the backseat for a moment, but the Series cannot end on that note. Jesus Christ must decrease, while Elijah must increase.


How will Elijah be raised? God has to speak to him. The brethren of The Restored Church of God are waiting to be told God spoke to Mr. Pack audibly and gave him explicit instructions.


For the people still attending by then, it will be too late to get out. Once David C. Pack starts performing miracles, the test is already over for the note and non-note takers alike.


The first possible Sabbath for this is Saturday, May 13, 2023. Then, on May 20.


Pentecost is on Sunday, May 28.


Now…we wait.



Marc Cebrian

See:  Now…We Wait


Did Noah's Flood Kill The Dinosaurs?


Reading Church of God Facebook pages is never a dull moment. Conspiracy theories abound. There are flat earthers, dinosaur deniers, and all kinds of nuttiness.

The latest crackpot belief is that the dinosaurs were all killed by Noah's flood. Who knew!!!!

There was a posting the other day about the recent discovery of dinosaur eggs in China with embryos still inside. The eggs were covered by the bones of the oviraptor that had been guarding them, leading to speculation of instant death, i.e. the flood.

Jaw-Dropping Fossil Find Contains a Dinosaur Sitting on an Entire Clutch of Eggs

A COG member writes:

This recently discovered dinosaur fossil was found laying on a batch of over 2 dozen fossilized eggs with embryos still inside! It has been called extremely rare since scientists don't ever see dinosaur fossils with embryos still inside, with the parent on top. The oviraptor is believed to have been guarding the nest and died with it, protecting its young. There is very little sediment between the parent and the eggs indicating this is how they all died together. Notice that key word : sediment. This is no doubt an excellent flood fossil. Something dangerous was going down, and this dinosaur was doing its job, protecting its young. Clearly they had to be buried very, very quickly by sediment and water to be preserved this way. #Noahsflood


Wednesday, May 10, 2023

Dave Pack and Kardashian Underwear in Prophecy….


Chasing Tail


David C. Pack must be exhausted. The Pastor General of The Restored Church of God brute-forced his way through “The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 441)” on May 6, 2023, using every last ounce of his preternatural strength to complete his commission to “rush and call it out.”


All he is doing is chasing a fantasy he can never attain.


As the Series continued to decay, so did Dave’s ability to clearly communicate. Stammering, repeating, self-interrupting, starting sentences that never finish, and uttering words that do not exist seem to be the new normal. Maybe his inability to pronounce whole words is due to age and fatigue, not laziness.


To let the point prove itself rather than appear only as a cruel accusation, the following articles will NOT include cleaned-up quotes from David C. Pack. As you read, imagine listening for 90 minutes-plus without being able to pause, slow down, or go back. This is what the brethren of The Restored Church of God accept as “revealed knowledge” from an apostle.


However, not all of it was a boringly confusing mess. There were some unintentionally funny moments. How the 441-plus Part Series ended after seven-and-a-half years “with a bang” is the best way to start.


You need to watch it to the end to appreciate it. The transcript cannot do the awkwardness justice.

Part 421 – May 6, 2023

@ 1:51:32 …whatever it is, wait for it. You’re not waiting in those verses anymore for a for Christ. You’re waiting for {me} Elijah to be raised by God to talk to 8 billion people. So so, brace for impact. Buckle up. It’s not exactly what we thought. But, there’s no escaping it that I can see. So, now, no one will have to come up to me with a rhetorical set of questions about what I think only leads you to one answer. Goodnight and Godspeed the day anytime now (I suppose) before Pentecost. Goodnight.


After this is when the comedy begins. A remarkable thirty-five seconds of it.



The changes Dave proclaimed across 113 minutes are not so humorous. Some of these are Dave chasing his own tail and spinning the RCG brethren in circles.


•  The Elijahn Period returns and starts the First Kingdom.

•  The First Kingdom begins “before” Pentecost. Maybe.

•  The First Kingdom is “permly” six months-ish long.

•  Israel’s captivity begins October 7.

•  The Day of the Lord is at sunset November 5.

•  The Last Great Day is “portable.”

•  Kim Kardashian wears underwear.


Okay, that last one is funny. But if you think I made it up, you give me too much credit.


@ 22:34 I watched an ad on television, and it was one of the                                                                                                                                                        s advertising underwear…and she starts by telling the the audience… “I like these underwear. Normally, I don’t like to wear underwear. I never wear it.” And I thought, "You filthy thing." The message you are sending.


Hey, you filthy girl. You are sending me such a message. And in your underwear. ;)


I never imagined a day could come when I would hear David C. Pack's smooth bedroom voice utter, “Normally, I don’t like to wear underwear.” And yet, here it is. Part 441. And I will never forget it. Playing his best rendition of Kim caressing herself makes me laugh hysterically to tears. My neighbors must think I am high. So much for avoiding the appearance of evil.


I have been laughing so hard that I worry about popping a blood vessel. So, it is best to move on.



After Dave's head hits the pillow, the prophetic picture changes by the time it rises again. As the winds of doctrine keep blowing and carrying him about, I wonder how loud that whistling between his ears gets at night.


Like a dog chasing his own tail, Dave cannot help but repeat patterns of the past even when the outcome is inevitable failure.


@ 00:31 This is Part 441. I normally don't say the the number anymore, but it is the end. And I do like to say when I can, you may find this more fascinating than any the others. And believe it or not, we finish with a bang.


Part 442 will dispute all of those elements. This is not the end. This will become far less fascinating. The non-finish is not a bang but a whimper. You did watch that first clip, right?


@ 08:35 Now, one of the questions we're gonna have to address is, When does God take Israel away into captivity? It is not what I thought.


At least Dave manned up and used a first-person pronoun here. Kudos. But, then…


@ 08:45 I had a lotta questions about it. This is gonna be eye-opening. I’m gonna tell you exactly the day they go into captivity. Right now, I think your general sense is they’re the the the month of captivity is Elul ending in Trumpets.


Even he questioned it, brethren, but now he has an eye-opening revised-exactly for them to chew on.


“I think your general sense is”


Who gave them that “general sense," and when? It takes 50 more minutes for Dave to finally answer those questions while setting up the next topic.


@ 58:53 So, when is the Kingdom of God? It haunted me. I mentioned that. Is it Trumpets? Or does Trumpets begin the captivity? I referenced Trumpets the last two messages. It was not wasn’t correct.


He was haunted. Again. The last two messages were three and four days ago. “It was not wasn’t correct.” The double negative is not a type-o but fatigue-related diminished communication capacity.


Dave spent 50 minutes of Part 441 reversing teachings from Part 440 and Part 439. Half of the Series is re-teaching the other half. For those still attending The Restored Church of God, go to the Sermon Library and notice the first thirty Parts missing. All of it was wrong and later reversed or just erased. Well, except for Dave being That Prophet in Part 8. For some reason, that solo point was a keeper.


@ 26:44 So, if you can understand where we’re going here, this [shot glass] ends at least, at least about 45 days after WE thought it does.


The timetable WE thought from three days ago is shifting. It is a shame if you proved it true and believed your Pastor General. He is counting on you being a gullible dope again. But, only a dope for “the last time.”



Dave cannot deny his true nature for long.


@ 39:09 Here’s proof that Israel keeps the Feast of Tabernacles and goes into captivity on the Last Great Day.And there’s big significance in that. But, now it’s easy to understand [Hosea] 12:9.


@ 40:22 They are gone on the Last Great Day. So, let’s stop for a moment. Let’s just let’s get this clear. They do not go into captivity one month before Tabernacles on Elul 1. Which is one day too short anyway. They do not go into captivity on Trumpets one month later. They go into captivity three weeks after that. Which, I believe, might be October 7th or something like that. I think it’s October 7th. Israel enters captivity on October 7th. And they’re there for one month. So, the Day of the Lord has to be, has to be November 6th, starting the night of the 5th.


Well, look at who crawled on his hands and knees, begging his boss to give him his old job back. And that was not me.


Dave returned to being terribly comfortable with setting dates. It is the irresistible aspect of his perpetual self-commission. Like a diabetic eyeing that last piece of pie calling out to him with a seductively delightful siren song. Just one little taste. This will be the last time. I promise.


Dave looks in the mirror and repeats the splitting-hairs analysis that he is teaching about a date for the later stages of the Kingdoms and not for when the First one starts. After all, that is the one that really matters when you debate the “no man knows the day and hour” hold-outs.


For those still attending The Restored Church of God, ask yourself how this is not “an inspired man” giving you “a sign or a wonder.” Observe when “the thing follow not, nor comes to pass” in October AND November. Then, try to make peace with Deuteronomy 13:1-2 and 18:20-22.


You can question your local minister, but all his flummoxed excuses and poorly-memorized Headquarters Boilerplate answers will leave you empty and unsatisfied.


The Bible is alive right before your eyes. Have eyes to see and ears to hear.



Dave chases his inarguable tail.


@ 41:10 You can’t argue with it…I’m just gonna overload you with proofs.


This guy loves to call out his future self. We know Future Dave always wins the Understanding Dance-Off, with Past Dave relegated to punching his pillow in frustration.


@ 41:19 So, I told you I I would tell you how long the Campus is here. The Campus will be here till November 6th. When all when everybody’s portions and the fish and birds and animals and people, everybody’s taken away.


Even the Gospel-helping fish in the Campus lakes are not immune from this?


If anyone is interested in joining me at a 4 PM Tailgate Party in the Giant Eagle parking lot on Sunday, November 5, please write We will organize who brings what.


Starting at 5:18 PM, I will gladly take everyone on a tour of that empty Campus if my door code still works. Dave, please be a pal and leave your car keys and home security code on the call box at the front gate. After all, you will be needed none of that.



@ 42:20 If we’re gonna lead this Kingdom, we gotta we gotta understand it…So, you’re hearing exactly six months to the day on May 6th when the Day of the Lord is. Now, I tell you, brethren, believe it.


Brethren, do NOT believe it.


Flashback Part 380 – July 1, 2022

@ 32:15 Is there any way we can know that we’re waiting for July 14thLet’s just be blunt. July 14th is the Day of the LordLet’s be dramatic. Let’s just lay it out.


Flashback Part 382 – July 17, 2022

@ 00:18 You have the picture…I spoke to all the ministers about what we'll cover tonight, and they know that we're still right on time…I still believe that the Day of the Lord is the night of July 28th.


@ 09:53 Brethren, you cannot change, you cannot change July 28th.


Flashback Part 383 – July 23, 2022

@ 28:31 So that’s a powerful proof. Not only that the Day of the Lord comes on [September 25-26] Trumpets, but it cannot be next year or the year after.


Flashback Part 388 – August 23, 2022

@ 21:45 It has become absolute heresy to reject that the Day of the Lord comes on the Feast of Trumpets.


Flashback Part 403 – November 5, 2022

@ 42:51 But, the most wonderful news I could give you is not the news of Christmas, but the news that the Day of the Lord has to be Christmas.


Flashback Part 414 – January 14, 2023

@ 51:05 …and you know exactly what day is the Day of the Lord and that it’s inarguable, it will give you a warm and peaceful and wonderful feeling


@ 1:08:45 There’s no arguing with that…I’m just gonna drive it home and crush all idea that the Day of the Lord is not [March 22-23] Abib 1.


Flashback Part 418 – February 9, 2023

@ 18:02 The flight takes place at sundown on a Sunday night ten days from the Day of the Lord. So, we would say March 12th before the Day of the Lord on the [March] 22nd. If you wanna just keep it real with a calendar.


Flashback Part 423 – February 24, 2022

@ 24:33 Now, if that’s true…it's impossible, it's impossible, brethren, to not know when the Day of the Lord is. It's impossible. It's [April 21-22] Iyar 1.


@ 25:12 …and the math is perfect. Which means you now know…you now absolutely know when the Day of the Lord is. And anybody who argues with it simply threw the Bible out the window.


Part 441 – May 6, 2023

@ 41:01 So, the Day of the Lord has to be, has to be November 6th starting the night of the 5th.



July 14  |  July 28  |  September 25  |  December 24  |  March 22  |  April 21  |  November 5


Does that sound like a true apostle or a false apostle?


Does that sound like a true teacher or a false teacher?


Does that sound like a man led by God or by himself?


Does that sound like the Spirit of Truth or Error?


“Now, I tell you, brethren, believe it.”


He burns everyone who trusts him. He embarrasses everyone who takes him at his word.


David C. Pack is a prophecy dog chasing his own tail. If you are waiting for him to stop, you will be waiting a lifetime.

Marc Cebrian

See: Chasing Tail

Are Green Envelopes Christian?


From a reader

Tuesday, May 9, 2023

The Hierarchy


The Hierarchy

Armstrongism and the Theology of Autocratic Hierarchy

By Krischan

Though I have found no written account, I would imagine that Herbert W. Armstrong (HWA) was very irritated the first time he had to confront the doctrine of the Trinity. The idea of God as three co-equal, co-inherent Persons who submitted to one another in love would not have been compatible with his aspirations. The hierarchical God of the Church of God Seventh Day was a better fit. There was the Father at the top in charge of everything and there was the Son occupying a subordinate position. And the Holy Spirit did not matter in this context because it was a spiritual force emanating from God and not a Person at all. While there is much to be said about all of this, it is the notion of a hierarchical God that is the point of departure for this opinion piece.

The Hierarchy

If someone views God as a hierarchy, the gravitas is such that this concept will permeate that person’s worldview. It becomes a foundational philosophy about how reality works. It becomes The Hierarchy with a capital “H.” How the concept of a hierarchical God actually developed in HWA’s mind is a matter of conjecture. It is likely that it was not a simple transfer of doctrine from the Church of God Seventh Day to Armstrongism. For instance, the Church of God Seventh Day was Arian at the time that HWA associated with them based on a statement by Robert Coulter, former President of the General Conference of the Church of God Seventh Day, in an interview with Dixon Cartwright. They did not believe that Jesus was God. This belief seems not to have transferred to Armstrongism in a direct way as if HWA just copied the belief. But Coulter further said, “Arianism tends to degrade the position of Christ …”. There may have been a residue of this view that did transfer into Armstrongism.

So, in Armstrongism we find examples of The Hierarchy everywhere. Church government is a hierarchy, local congregations are hierarchies, Ambassador College was a hierarchy, SEP was a hierarchy and Spokesman Club was a hierarchy.

Where Hierarchy Should Not Be

There are those who say the world is full of hierarchies and that is the way that things get done. The military, schools, and hospitals are all hierarchies. It is true that some human operations could not be successful without a hierarchical structure.

The error occurs when the hierarchical approach to managing physical processes is applied to human worth and lives. This is what Armstrongism has done. The Armstrongist approach is inapt because the Bible and theology are about human life and not accounting departments, printing shops or college faculties. The distasteful idea is that human beings can be sorted into categories of importance and privilege. The social mode that is engendered by this view is that there are patrician echelons and then there are echelons comprised of "church trash" - "the cream of the crud" as one evangelist notably stated. And the treatment of people in these two categories is widely divergent. This approach was promulgated by Ambassador College. But the approach was not learned in Ambassador College classrooms but in the treatment and valuation of people in the conduct of its functions and operations - the real classroom. So, there is no syllabus for this education. It is a matter of observation of empirical data rather than drawing on documentation. You had to be there. And many were.

Human beings should not be sorted into important and unimportant classes. But this is where The Hierarchy leads. God created everyone for a grand and profound ultimate purpose. Christ’s atonement is unlimited and values every person as a child of God. Even those who do not fit the model of the media glitterati. Blessed are the meek he says.

A Case in Point – Church Services

Every seven days Armstrongists receive a dose of hierarchy. They attend strictly hierarchical church services. The order of services is a denominational decision and there is freedom of religion in this country. But it should not get out of perspective. It is just a denominational decision and may only reflect the preferences or personalities of church leaders. The rigid order of services found in Armstrongism, and many other religions, is not based on a Biblical mandate. In fact, the Bible gives a much different picture of First-Century Christian Services. From the book titled “Pagan Christianity?” by Frank Viola and George Barna:

“The meetings of the early church were marked by every-member functioning, spontaneity, freedom, vibrancy, and open participation (see for example, 1 Corinthians 14:1-33 and Hebrews 10:25). The first-century church meeting was a fluid gathering, not a static ritual. And it was often unpredictable, unlike the contemporary church service…Further, the first-century church meeting was not patterned after the Jewish synagogue services as some recent authors have suggested. Instead, it was totally unique to the culture.”

I know something about this. My family has been Quaker for generations, from the inception of Quakerism back in England. I have attended Quaker services and if I wanted to say something I could have taken the floor and made a statement. HWA, descended from Quakers, was also familiar with this service format as well. It is much closer to the Biblical format than modern Armstrongist services.

If you are an Armstrongist and the idea of The Hierarchy seems ethereal and unimportant, when you show up for your next dose of hierarchical indoctrination, during services take the floor and give a testimonial like in the first-century church – maybe between the Sermonette and the Sermon. And see what The Hierarchy does to you. I think you will find The Hierarchy suddenly palpable.

Summary Statement

While hierarchies organize humanistic efforts in the physical realm, God is not a hierarchy but three Persons committed to each other in co-equal status. God is not a hierarchy in ontology although God may be a hierarchy in economy. This means that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not unequal in what they are but are different in what they do. The ontology of God is a direct statement that it is anathema to sort people out by their perceived value – into the categories of the important and the unimportant – into echelons of the elite and “church trash.” Christ died for all.