It's been a while since we had the Church of God's looniest prophet featured here. After his African debacle, he has tried to stay out of the limelight and focused on his usual topics of conspiracy claptrap. That ended today when he tried to lecture us all on the great apostasy and the failure of COG members to heed proper church government in which we need to recognize that he and he alone is the one true end-time church leader.
After ranting about the Worldwide Church of God debunking Herbert Armstrong's junk, he continued to spread the myth that Tkach Sr was the man of sin and that corruption entered the church because people refuse to follow proper church government. The bullshit is piled high in his post.
He then ends with this tripe:
Notice that Herbert Armstrong believed that God mainly worked through the leadership of one man at a time to lead various phases of the work. Scripture, shows for example, that the mantle passed from Elijah to Elisha (2 Kings 2:9-15). The ‘mantle’ would currently be with the person/group that truly functioned as the ‘pillar and ground of truth’ (1 Timothy 3:15).
For fifty years in the second century, according to Herbert W. Armstrong, that man was Polycarp:
It is significant that after his release John trained Polycarp elder of Smyrna, a city near Ephesus in the province of Asia. … At neighboring Smyrna, Polycarp presided over the Church of God for half a century after John’s death. Polycarp stood up boldly for the truth while many fell away and began having fellowship with the Catholic bishops of Rome. History relates that following the example of Peter, Paul and John, Polycarp wrote many letters to congregations and individuals, though all these have perished, save one in an edited version. (Armstrong HW. The Church They Couldn’t Destroy. Good News, December 1981)
For over 50 years in the 20th century, it was Herbert W. Armstrong.
And in the 21st century, that one man is not in any of the independent or more structured Laodicean groups.
Support the remnant of the Philadephian era and God’s work today.
Do not delay (cf. Zephaniah 2:1-3).
Herbert Armstrong would never have recognized Bob Thiel as a legitimate Church of God leader let alone as a real minister. He would've kicked Bob to the curb so fast even his holistic butt salve would not help him.
18 comments:
The "evidence" that Bob is that supposed one man is extremely thin. God cannot expect anyone to base salvation on such flimsy "evidence."
The 7 churches' letters from Jesus through John were directed to those churches intimately. If you research the details going back in history to their exact time, it is clear that is not you. You are not buying incense to a Roman Emperor before being allowed into a shopping mall. You did not get kicked out of a guild. There are no temples with small statues being sold to the public as a main source of income for the merchants outside of each huge temple holding a gigantic statue to bow down, worship, and bring food to.You did not get kicked out of a Jewish synagogue and are not on a list read by Rome so you are no longer tax exempt or have to bow to a god.
You do not have lukewarm water coming out of your pipe. How dare these false prophets deceive people
Today saying they are those churches continued. The Holy Spirit is available now. We can have conversations to learn from their good points & the inserted correction in the middle of each of the 7 churches, but you are definitely not them.
"...God worked mainly through the leadership of one man."
This from the HWA who also taught near the end of his life that "government is everything." Which is similar to the Pharisees "the Sabbath is every thing." In fact God worked mainly by directly leading each and every Christian, minus the meddling power hungry ministry. Which is something that Herb and his cronies hid since they had lustfully usurped a responsibility of God Himself. Notice how God appeared hard hearted in ignoring Moses plea to let him into the promised land for commiting the same sin, yet here we are, thousand of years later with "Gawds ministers" repeating Moses's sin.
The veil in the holy of holies splitting on Christ's death means that every Christian has direct access to God and the leadership of His holy spirit. No middlemen are required.
These Armstrongite franchisees certainly have vivid imaginations! If I were ever to suffer such dementia that I would actually follow Bob, Dave, either of the Jerrys, or go, ridin' on my Yamaha to the COGaWA in Omaha, I would be screaming "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"
“The Jerusalem conference (Acts 15) showed that PETER was predominant over even Paul, although Paul was the ONE MAN God worked through primarily in the ministry to gentiles.” HWA quoted by BT.
Jerusalem Council
Ac 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
"The decisive voice in the meeting, however, lay neither with Peter nor with the delegates from Antioch but with James..." (I. Howard Marshall, Acts, TNTC, p.251).
"James, the brother of the Lord, who had risen to power in the Jerusalem church was obviously the person in charge of the meeting, for he spoke last and crystallized what he had heard the Holy Spirit saying to the group. He followed his Brother's custom of rooting what he said in the Scripture..." (Preacher's Commentary).
"The inaugural event of the second half of Acts is actually the concluding event of the Jerusalem Council: the speech of James. Having heard all the relevant evidence from the mission field, the new leader of the Jerusalem church is prepared to render a verdict" (Robert W. Wall, The Acts of the Apostles, NIB, Vol.10, p.217).
Ac 15:13 When they finished, James spoke up: "Brothers, listen to me. (NIV).
"The eyes of all now turn to James, the brother of the Lord, a man who enjoyed widespread respect and confidence. If the elders of the Jerusalem church were organized as a kind of Nazarene Sanhedrin, James was their president, primus inter pares. The church's readiness to recognize his leadership was due more to his personal character and record than to his blood relationship to the Lord... When he said "Listen to me," they listened" (F. F. Bruce, The Book of Acts, NICNT, p.292).
New Dispensation - apostolic to elder rule
Ac 1:10a And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he [Jesus] went [poreuomenou] up...
Ac 12:17b And he [Peter] departed, and went [eporeuthe] into another place.
Ac 12:17a Ac 12:17 But he, beckoning unto them with the hand to hold their peace, declared unto them how the Lord had brought him out of the prison. And he said, Go show these things unto James, and to the brethren.
"The story of the living Peter's exodus from certain death had not yet been told to "James and the brothers." The abrupt introduction of James into the narrative, typical of Luke's story-telling strategy, both presumes that the reader knows him to be the "James the brother of the Lord" and leader of the Jewish church and hints at the importance of his future role in Acts. The introduction of James into the narrative world of Acts is the complement of Peter's departure from it. Although Peter will make an important cameo appearance during the proceedings of the Jerusalem Synod (cf. 15:6-11), his role in the history of God's salvation has already been served when "he left and went [... eporeuthe] to another place." This echoing of Jesus' "going [... poreuomenou] ... towards heaven" (see 1:10) at his ascension, which necessitates his apostolic succession, adds a another layer of meaning to the concluding moment of Peter's mission in Jerusalem. This implied meaning is that the reins of spiritual leadership have been transferred to James" (Robert W. Wall, The Acts of the Apostles, NIB, Vol.10, pp.180).
"Peter now disappears [after the Jerusalem Synod] from the narrative of Acts; so far as Luke is concerned, says Martin Hengel, "the legitimation of the mission to the Gentiles is virtually Peter's last work" [Acts and the History of Earliest Christianity, E.T. (London, 1979), p.125]" (F. F. Bruce, The Book of Acts, NICNT, p.291).
Ac 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
"Only the passing reference to James, when Peter departs Jerusalem following his miraculous escape from prison (see 12:17), provides the reader with any hint of the important role James will play in the second half of Acts.
Part 2
“Here and later in Acts 21, he stands as the teaching authority of the Jewish church. His discernment of God's will proves decisive in settling the present conflict and for anticipating the potential problem of mixing uncircumcised and circumcised believers in the Christian congregations of the diaspora" (Robert W. Wall, The Acts of the Apostles, NIB, Vol.10, p.218).
Ac 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Ac 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
"With the dispersal of the Hellenistic almoners of 6:5 in the persecution that followed Stephen's death, the charge of financial affairs in the church seems to have devolved to the elders. The elders (among whom James the Just [the heir apparent to the Davidic throne] emerges as primus inter pares) constituted a kind of Nazarene Sandhedrin. In Acts 15 they share the leadership of the church with the apostles; from then on the apostles disappear from the Jerusalem scene and the elders exercise the whole corporate leadership (cf. 21:18)" (F. F. Bruce, The Book of Acts, Revised, NICNT, p.231).
Some Jesus and Peter typology (works better in color)
Lk 22:1 Now THE FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD drew nigh, which is called the PASSOVER.
Lk 22:2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared THE PEOPLE.
Jn 18:12 Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews TOOK [SULLAMBANO] JESUS, and bound him,
Mt 27:1 When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:
Mt 27:64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples comeby night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.
Mt 27:65 Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as ye can.
Mt 27:66 So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch.
Mt 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for THE ANGEL OF THE LORD descended from heaven, and came and ROLLED BACK THE STONE FROM THE DOOR, and sat upon it.
Mt 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
Mt 28:12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the SOLDIERS,
Ac 12:3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to TAKE [SULLAMBANO] PETER also. (Then were THE DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD.)
Ac 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after PASSOVER to bring him forth to THE PEOPLE.
Ac 12:5a Peter therefore was kept in prison:
Ac 12:6 And when Herod would have brought him forth, the same night Peter was sleeping between two SOLDIERS, bound with two chains: and the keepers before the door kept the prison.
Ac 12:7 And, behold, THE ANGEL OF THE LORD came upon him, and a light shined in the prison:...
Ac 12:8 And the angel said unto him, Gird thyself, and bind on thy sandals. And so he did. And he saith unto him, Cast thy garment about thee, and follow me.
Ac 12:10 When they were past the first and the second ward, THEY CAME UNTO THE IRON GATE THAT LEADETH UNTO THE CITY; WHICH OPENED TO THEM OF HIS OWN ACCORD: and they went out, and passed on through one street; and forthwith the angel departed from him.
Ac 12:18 Now as soon as it was day, there was no small stir among the SOLDIERS, what was become of Peter.
Ac 12:19 And when Herod had sought for him, and found him not, he examined the keepers, and commanded that they should be put to death...
"Notice that Herbert Armstrong believed that God mainly worked through the leadership of one man at a time to lead various phases of the work."
The argument for that is very weak. Just because HWA believed something doesn't make it true. He also believed that Pentecost was always on Monday. He later acknowledged that error and accepted correction.
I would ask Bob about the 12 Apostles (13, counting Paul). They all reported directly to God. They would gather when necessary to sort out issues that came up, working together seeing God's guidance to come to the correct understanding, but no one of them was "the boss".
I have said before, tell the 12 Apostles that God works through one man at a time. Tell Shadrach, Mesach and Abednigo. Tell Moses, Aaron and Miriam.
That was nothing but b.s. thought up by none other than the king of b.s. HWA, in order to keep the power and money in his sole control. These cog men are putting their full faith and weight on HWA, not Jesus. Do they ever stop to ask themselves, what if HWA was wrong? And he was wrong about almost every single thing, but they cannot see that. Not to mention, to this crop of "prophets", it is HWA they worship, emulate, imitate, follow, trust, place their faith in and all of that, entirely outside of Jesus and God's crystal clear hatred of idolatry. Good luck in eternity boys. I wouldn't trade places with you for all the money in the world.
Oh and Bob, you are NOT a prophet. You just wanted to be one so badly that you have convinced yourself it must be true. You need help of the psychiatric kind! This prophet schtick of yours is going to cost you dearly..for eternity. Hope it was worth it.
1 Corinthians 3:
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Bob has no authority. Neither did Herbert. Neither did Paul. They were all self-appointed and claimed unverifiable dreams or visions to support their "calling."
Herbert Armstrong would never have recognized Bob Thiel as a legitimate Church of God leader let alone as a real minister.
Well, he wouldn't have recognized anybody on this site either, even as a Christian, let alone a leader. Neither would Jesus.
"Well, he wouldn't have recognized anybody on this site either, even as a Christian, let alone a leader. Neither would Jesus."
Oh, look! Mr. Grumpy Pants is back again. You can't prove anyone wrong here so you lash out in your bitterness. Bob is not a Christian so why are you so bitter?
If you didn't think intuitively, or dig deeper, Herbert W. Armstrong's "one man worked through" seemed plausible. If HWA had had an exclusive on the Holy Spirit, we could understand him being totally unaccountable, an autocrat. The fallacy in his claiming all of this power is that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are equal opportunity providers. No one man "owns" them. HWA's system of checks and balances died in 1967 of a bowel obstruction!
My advice to Bob Thiel is that if you know that Herbert W. Armstrong had a certain policy, or behaved in a set way, you'd better treat that in a Berean sort of way. Do a little due diligence, because we know from his history, he was wrong about certain things, and I'm not just referring to Dorothy here. Those of us from back in the day watched him in his frequent bouts of anger, and that is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit! He was often a really pompous ass! And, we don't even know if he liked puppies!
Bobby!
Have the African brethren somehow "magically disappeared"??
Bob crying again because LCG wouldnt put him in charge.
There is so much competition. The Pope wants people to look toward him for understanding of the scripture to control and dominate.
Armstrong does the exact same thing coming at in in a different from a different angle.
Jesus said, "I AM the way, the truth, and the life." The Pope and Armstrong are twins..There are numerous parallels if you take the time to do the research. There was no hierarchy amongst the disciples. One was NOT more important than the other. They all had different assignments to reach different people groups led by the Holy Spirit They all recognized Jesus as the head. Armstrong and the Pope remove Holy Spirit and replace the Holy Spirit with their names. The twins.
There is no hierarchy. God, Jesus, Holy Spirit are the same level working together.
You are on to something, 9:20, but there is another replacement. The Holy Spirit is described as causing good fruits, Godly behavioral patterns naturally flowing in the lives of those indwelled. Armstrongism, not understanding the Holy Spirit, attempted to replace, and usurp that by insisting upon certain behavior, their own system of added dos and don'ts, and to enforce compliance with threats of loss of salvation (as if they and not God were the gatekeepers). Just as some fake supernatural healings, Armstrongism fakes and enforces the fruits of the Holy Spirit. And, they do it badly because it results in self-righteousness, and elitism.
"Neither did Paul" correct there is a spark of truth. Notice the parallel (Paul and Balaam),as Balaam places a stumbling block before the SONS of ISRAEL, So does Saul (Paul).
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