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Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
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- DAVID C PACK: We Are In A Serious Dilemma! EVERYTHING I HAVE WRITTEN IS WRONG!
- Evaluating the Rumors about Herbert Armstrong and Incest
- Apostolic Treasures: The Treasures Of Herbert W Armstrong
- Bob Thiel: The Remarkable Story of The Mysterious ThD and Subtle Deceptions of Bob Thiel
- Wacky World of Dave Pack
- David C. Pack's Wacky World 2
- Mulling Things Over With Dennis Page 1
- "Mulling Things Over With Dennis" Page 2
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- Van Robison
- Idiots in the Pulpit
- Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web
- Armstrongism: Is It The Plain Truth? 8/5
- The Daughter of Babylon: A True History of the Workdwide Church of God
- The Armstrong Error Booklet
- Mr. Confusion 1971
- Book: The Truth Shall Make You Free
- UCG/COGWA Child Molester
- PCG Suicide
- How Fred Dattalo, Cal Culpepper and Gerald Flurry Caused A PCG Suicide
- LCG Pedophiles
- Rod Meredith HATES This Blog!
- Rod McNair Says Elderly Possessed By Demons
- Herbert Armstrong Confesses to Incest!
- Herbert Armstrong's Documented Prophecies By Decad...
- Worldwide Church of God vs. Philadelphia Church of God
- Pasadena Campus in 2019
- Ambassador College Pasadena Campus Demolition and ...
Saturday, October 17, 2020
Dave Pack belittles and mocks brethren who choose not to attend the FOT, and mocks another COG
LCG: Bobby Jaques and Rand Millich downplayed drastically the Covid outbreak today in the live stream service
Bobby Jaques and Rand Millich downplayed drastically the Covid outbreak today in the live stream service. There have been 12 confirmed cases in Kansas City and Joplin and the number is rising. Jaques wants to downplay it because HIS WIFE was wearing one of those homemade atrocities at the Feast. The hypocrisy of these men are disgusting. Admit you screwed up, admit this happened on your watch, admit you failed to set a good example, and admit you weren't showing love for your brother by allowing this to go on!
COGWA also may have a COVID Feast Problem
From a reader:
COGWA also may have had a COVID-19 Feast problem.
Brethren who went to Tucson were told to stay home and quarantine today, because some members in Arizona and Texas tested positive after the Feast. COGWA is not sure if they developed COVID onsite or not.
Gerald Weston: "...was sanctioning the wearing of face shields in place of a face mask wise, or were you tempting God?"
From a reader:
Dave Pack's group isn't the only ones to be hit with the Covid virus, LCG members have started coming down with it too now that the Feast gatherings have ended.
Weston has openly accused and mocked Monson for his stand on face masks and has told the LCG membership that Monson was acting recklessly and tempting God...so, was sanctioning the wearing of face shields in place of a face mask wise, or were you tempting God?
Did the KC members who were wearing homemade face shields that didn't cover their noses and barely came up over their mouths...was that tempting God, was that reckless?
Was having the Feast in a highly populated tourist hot spots wise or was that reckless and tempting God??
Come on presiding Evangelist Weston, your church members are waiting to hear how you justify your actions?? You pronounce condemnation on Munson's group for their faith in God, but look at what your actions have produced!
Dave Pack: It was the BEST FEAST EVER! Even though you now may be sick, it was the BEST FEAST EVER! Even though Christ never came, it was the BEST FEAST EVER!
After exposing his declining membership to potential COVID incubators during the Feast of Tabernacles and after some members have become sick, God's chosen COG leader and his faithful boys in Wadsworth have sent out a letter to the few faithful telling them what to do if they are sick.
From a reader:
Trouble in Dave’s paradise! One week after the FOT some of the RCG members report that they feel sick. No way Dave will ever admit that members of his milking cows, erm ... little flock, have caught COVID. But better safe than sorry. So the members received this yesterday:
Reports from the various Feast sites across the globe confirm that amidst a unique and challenging year, God’s people experienced an edifying Feast. The best one ever!
By obeying God’s fall Feast command, we got the opportunity to travel to sites all over the world, each reflecting the beautiful and tranquil environment we can look forward to in the Kingdom. Naturally this travel required us to come into contact with those in the general public, and for a longer period, than we might have during other periods of the year. Thus, the risk of exposure to different viruses, including regular seasonal flu and others, as well as the ongoing and resurging worldwide Covid-19 pandemic, was higher.
Now that we are home and with the changing seasons in mind (both in the northern and southern hemispheres), we felt a general health reminder would be beneficial.
Please read this announcement carefully as it provides helpful guidelines on how to avoid illness and how to proceed in case you get sick. Some items on this list might vary from country-to-country, and different local areas:
• Continue to regularly wash your hands (video illustration included). Use hand sanitizer when washing hands is impractical.
• Follow proper cough and sneeze etiquette (video illustration included).
• Maintain six-foot (two meter) social distancing requirements.
• Maintain a healthy diet. Be sure to drink lots of water, and eat vitamin-rich fruits and vegetables.
• Incorporate a regular exercise routine.
If you experience any of the following symptoms, please let your minister know and refrain from attending services to prevent the potential spread of illness. Also consider a medical diagnosis from a professional:
• Fever of 100 F (37.8 °C) or higher
• Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
• Muscle or body aches
• Loss of taste or smell (that is new)
• Sore throat
• Congestion or runny nose
• Nausea or vomiting
• Follow CDC guidance if symptoms develop.
As mentioned, be sure to keep your local minister informed if you are not feeling well. He is not a medical professional but may be able to assist if a personal anointing (or an anointed cloth) is needed (James 5:14-15). The Church’s policy on not attending services when feeling sick applies (this covers all contagious diseases).
Remember that God will do His part to help us stay healthy, or heal us when we are sick. He expects us to do our part to prevent any illness and to have concern for our fellow brethren by helping avoid the spread of sickness. Our faith towards God, whether we get sick or not, is important throughout the entire process (Hebrews 11:6)!
We hope that this is helpful as we approach the Sabbath and will assist us in staying healthy moving forward.
Remember boys and girls, if you get COVID there is always this:
Friday, October 16, 2020
Bob Thiel's African "Brethren" Do Not Consider Him A Prophet And Only Attend For The Money
From a reader:
A source in Kenya confirms that the attendees don't consider Bob to be a prophet, but only attend for the money. One can hardly blame them considering how impoverished they are. I'm still not clear how active Evans is with each of the groups. He seems to burn bridges along the way.
Goff Weighs In
There have been numerous reports concerning my relationship with Bob Thiel’s group called “Continuous COG”, most of which are false reports. For one, I did not help fund Bob Thiel’s trip to Kenya, or “rush to Kenya” to assess the situation. My stand concerning incorporated COG groups who continuously try to draw the brethren into their carnal organizations, and lord over them, has not changed since I first put my feet on the ground in Kenya back in 2005. I am totally against such behavior.
Below is a message I sent on March 15, 2014 to Evans Ochieng (Bob Thiel’s new representative in Kenya.) Following my letter is a statement to the Kenya/Tanzania brethren concerning what actions need to be taken to avoid being led astray by the confusion that carnal men continuously bring into God’s church.
First, my letter to Evans Ochieng, which I sent to him one week before Bob Thiel’s trip to Nairobi, Kenya. (I was not informed by Ochieng beforehand that Bob was planning to hold a meeting with numerous leaders from around Kenya. Although I had been working with Ochieng for some time, he kept this meeting, and all the preparations that he himself was making for it, from me.)
“Evans, I am very concerned about your connecting to Bob Thiel. I feel you have not been honest with me. For one, you told me that Bob was meeting with you for 3 days in Nairobi. But later found out that the meeting included many leaders from around Kenya/Tanzania, with you on top of Thiel's operation in Kenya. You were not honest with me concerning this matter. Also, Bob Thiel teaches many doctrines that I do not agree with, in fact many doctrines that I preach very strongly against, like believing that his group is the Philadelphians, Christ's little flock. (Just like the rest of the hierarchies like to teach concerning their groups) All this is deception to the brethren, and I will have no part of it. I'm going to stick with sincerity & truth and not going to play church games likes many false & deceived men who consider themselves "ministers" like to do. I may not have silver or gold, but I do have truth, and I will not compromise it. Please stop telling brethren that Bill Goff and Bob Thiel are together, because we're are not.
“Now If you want to represent Bob and his beliefs, that's your choice, and I will have no ill will towards you, But I will not participate in church games that consist of trying to get the brethren to join “their particular group” with all the jockeying for positions. Did not the Apostle Paul speak of this very nonsense as being carnal when he wrote to the Corinthians?
“For you are yet carnal: for as there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are you not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; and another Cephas; are ye not carnal? Is Christ divided? Was Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or Bob crucified for you? Or were you baptized into the name of Paul?” (1Corinthians 1:12; 3:4)”
Let us not be confused over this matter, Brethren. I encourage God’s entire Household to remember that God's True Church (His true “Little Flock”) is a Spiritual organization and everyone who has been baptized and had hands laid on them is part of it, as long as they remain faithful to God by walking in the spirit in all of His ways. Don't follow men, follow God. It’s okay to listen to men's teachings, but don't swallow all their sayings without chewing first. (Most of these “leaders” have their own personal agendas, which are contrary to God.) Treat men’s words (all men’s words) like you do your chicken when eating KuKu, chew first, swallow only the meat, and be sure to spit out the bones.
(1Thessalonians 5:21, Acts 17:11, 2Timothy 2:15)
Let us (the members of God’s church) get our priorities straight, because our Lord & Savior is soon to return to this earth, and He will be presenting to Himself a glorious church, those who have “purified themselves” - those not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing, but who are holy and without blemish. Put your trust in God, Brethren, and not in any carnal man. Follow Christ; listen to His voice only, because following men will always lead you to the ditch. The Scriptures tell us “Cursed be the man who puts his trust in men.” (Ephesians 5:27, John 10:27, Jeremiah 17:5)
Polepole Brethren, let us always remember that entrance into the Kingdom of God is not determined by which incorporated church group one associates with, but by one’s behavior, by one’s actions. One must be a “Sheep” to receive from God the free gift of eternal life. One must develop the Holy Righteous Character of the Father. Make no mistake about it, “GOATS” will not be there, nor will the unrighteous, or any transgressors of God’s way. (Matthew 25:31-46, 1John 3:1-3.)
Brethren, do not be deceived by the many false men who claim to be of Christ, and have deceived many into thinking that there are hundreds of splinter groups out there to choose between. Don’t be deceived brethren, because in God’s eyes, there are only “two” groups. Yes, two groups in His church (not hundreds). Two groups, the “Wise” and the “Foolish”. The Wise are making themselves ready for the return of their Lord & Master, and will soon meet Him and go into the marriage. But the door into the marriage will be shut to the foolish. Let us wake up, let us make our calling and election sure. Draw nigh to God, and He will draw nigh to us. Let us cleanse our hands, and purify our hearts, because He is coming quickly, and His reward is with Him to give every man according to his works. Not according to which incorporated church group he fellowships with, but according to his works. (Matthew 25:1-13, 2Peter 1:1-12, James 4:8. Revelation 22:12)
Bob Thiel Getting Played By His African Leaders
This just in from Africa...
What we all have known for several years now is that Bob Thiel, the Great Bwana to Africa, has been a useful tool for some of his African leaders who have been using him along with other COG groups. They have a long history of doing this in addition to getting what they can from the Seventh Day Adventists.
Ochieng is supposedly Thiel's top "evangelist". If he is Thiel's official evangelist, does that make him an evangelist for the other COG groups too? But, since Thiel claims his group is the ONLY true church doing a work today, how does he justify Ochieng spending his valuable evangelistic time with the other groups?
Thought you would find this of interest. Bob Thiel's man in Africa, Evans Ochieng, works for any church he can. Currently, he works for these:1. Midnight Ministries- Malcolm B Heap2. Church of God In Truth and Peace- James Russel3. A Voice In The Wilderness Church of God- Bill Goff4. Continuing Church of God- Bob Thiel
Thursday, October 15, 2020
Gerald Flurry: You are not supposed to enjoy the physical things
On Exit and Support Network
Most of our time, in the last hour, when we are not sleeping, working, or at church functions, should be spent with God. Family is secondary. He said that you need Godly balance in your life, and if you are spending time watching movies on TV, surfing the net, sports, or talking to friends, this is not Godly balance. He said “we are to pray three times a day, at morning noon and evening, and evening means sunset, we are not supposed to pray at night (he quoted Psalms 55:16-17). He said the book of Ecclesiastes was put in the bible to teach us we weren’t supposed to enjoy physical things. He also said we are not allowed to waste time; we need to spend our time in services, and the singles and older people should spend even more of their time in there.
Then he said people who murmur will end up dead and he gave example of Korah’s rebellion. I can’t begin to tell you how relieved I was when I left that demonic place. None of these so called “churches of God” will ever let go of Herbert Armstrong and grasp that he is not who we should be looking to.
For someone who says people are not to enjoy the physical things, Gerald Flurry and his henchmen sure live a life of luxury and excess. From living in church-owned homes that are maintained by the church, both inside and out, church owned cars, to extravagant offices, and a multimillion-dollar concert hall trophy wife. Add to that a luxury jet used to whisk Flurry family members around the world to England, Israel, and Irish dance competitions.
While Flurry, his son, and the privileged elite in Edmond, OK and in Edstone, England live lives of luxury and excess, everyday church members are expected to send in all their money and live frugal lives. After all, there is always that end time push that needs to be done. Though they have been pushing that time back for 20 some years now. they should be spending all their free time in prayer and doing godly things and not pursuing earthly things, especially if they are fun and joyful. It is no wonder so many people in PCG and the Restored Church of God are such miserable grumpy people. What joy do they have?
EXCLUSIVE: Dave Pack is back paddling again. This was the "Propehtic Update" that RCG members just received
Greetings brethren worldwide!
What a wonderful Feast we just kept together. In light of all that we learned, this was TRULY the most unified we have ever been!
By now all or certainly most of you will have heard the last message and returned home. To say we are all excited about events soon to unfold would be an all-time understatement! The main intent of this short message is simply to say that everything is on track. Keep watching!
We certainly don’t need to tell you that the conditions Christ described in Matthew, Mark and Luke have been happening, and for many months now. It seems just as impossible today as it did at the Feast that we could go another year.
Many scriptures suggest that the first restitution leading up to the Day of Christ is very short—a matter of days. Whether you call this period the days of the Son of Man—the last days—last space of time—last hour—hour of trial—evil days—time of the end—the fire—or a perilous time, every one of these indicates a short space of time. Its purpose is to tee up the Wedding Supper and the Kingdom of God in power, while at the same time completing the character of saints who do the right thing in the fire. There is also the need to herald the arrival of the Father, the resurrection of the Old Testament saints and all Israel, paradise, and all the wonderful things that come with the acceptable year of the Lord.
Mr. Pack has said that if time were to go on for a little while, it would only be because the devour month starts at the Feast of Tabernacles instead of the Feast of Trumpets next year. This would of course only mean a relatively brief additional wait. But all of us who have studied the relevant scriptures don’t see any way this could happen. The verses seem open and shut. Of course, things have seemed open and shut before, but clarified with time. If a few days pass, the question presented at the Feast would re-emerge: Do we go a few days or another year?
Interesting details continue to present themselves, which leads to an exercise you may wish to test yourself with as this announcement comes to a close. See how many Bible terms exist that describe the Day of Christ. We have made a list of over 50. Then try to find all the different terms for Christ’s initial coming. We found over 25. Just pursuing these and trying to sort them out will help you appreciate the complexity of the task that is now essentially behind us. If there were time for Mr. Pack to give another message, he would probably list these for you. But don’t look for that message, keep looking for Christ instead! It is highly unlikely we will get out of this week.
We close by remembering we do not know the day or hour of Christ’s Return. Keep waiting—and watching!
Tuesday, October 13, 2020
Wednesday, October 14, 2020
PCG Dennis Leap: "Who can and will properly explain Bible prophecy to you?"
One of the stranger men in charge at the Philadelphia Church of God cult compound in Edmond Oklahoma is Dennis Leap. He used to write a lot for the PCG propaganda magazines but has somehow made fewer and fewer appearances.
He is back once again with an article about Daniel 12:3 and the potential for PCG members to be shining as bright as the stars of heaven because of their worthiness and ability to remain true to the one true prophet of God and his teachings.
As usual in the PCG and COG's as a whole, church members are encouraged to emulate Old Testament heroes and sayings. Seldom are they asked to follow Christ or do anything he says. It's too inconvenient to be a Christ-follower and much more easy to be a law keeper, at least in their eyes.
We need to be honest with ourselves. Are we living by Daniel 12:3?
He claims PCG members must be wise and diligent as they prepare for the rapidly approaching end times and their trip to Petra. PCG members must constantly be doing something in order to impress their god and their dear leader.
Word came out at the Feast this year that they are excitedly awaiting that phone call to flee.
To help us respond quickly and urgently to Daniel 12:3, God ensured that two action steps were coupled with the two poetic images. Notice the first part: “And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament ….” The English word wise in the Hebrew is sakal and can mean to act, be, or make wise. To fully comprehend what God wants us to understand here requires all three of these definitions. It is also important to recognize the context of Daniel 12.
Verse 1 tells us it is the time period just before God’s people must flee to a place of safety—your people shall be delivered. That time period is rapidly approaching. Now is the time that God’s people must work diligently to become more wise and to act on that wisdom. Time is short. Jesus Christ’s return is imminent. How do we get such wisdom? Christ has shown us the way and provided the means to obtain it.
In these wild end times and the intense persecution being dished out upon the church by Satan and the world around them, PCG members need to be attuned to the one true prophet of god in their midst. Many false prophets (like Bob Thiel and Dave Pack) have rised up in the church deliberately used by Satan to deceive PCG members. Only Gerald Flurry has the truth and the true interpretation of scripture.
Who can and will properly explain Bible prophecy to you? Jesus Christ warned that many false prophets would arise just before His Second Coming (Matthew 24:24), so we must beware of what men we listen to and follow. “God wants His prophecies understood, so He reveals that understanding through His faithful servants. ‘Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets’ (Amos 3:7),” wrote Royal Vision editor in chief Gerald Flurry in his May-June 2020 Trumpet personal, “Prophecy Is Proof of God.” This personal is a must-read to understand the connection between Bible prophecy and world events! If you have not subscribed to the Philadelphia Trumpet newsmagazine, now is the time to do so. This magazine consistently and expertly brings Bible prophecy to light!
Realize, there are many church denominations in existence today that call themselves Christian. But how much of their religion is Bible-based? One of the largest denominations does not view the Bible as the sole source of its doctrine. Its members are not typically Bible readers. Prophecy is not a line item in its religious instruction. Regrettably, many other denominations follow that example. Jesus Christ said that His one true Church would be a small and persecuted flock (Luke 12:32; John 15:20). So we should not be fooled by religious groups with large members. You need to prove where Christ’s Church is today so that you are taught properly about God’s prophecies. A truly wise Christian is a student of prophecy and watches carefully, noting prophecies as they unfold. How wise are we?
The Philadelphia Church of God is on a mission to "turn people to righteousness." Considering how morally bankrupt they are as a church they have a hard mission ahead of them. But, that is of no concern because money is. PCG members become active in "turning people to righteousness" by giving money to the church so it can support its ministers in spreading its message. Of course, like all COG's out there, there has to be one prophet in charge who has a direct channel to God who regularly dumps prophetic nonsense into their empty minds.
How do Church members turn many to righteousness today? By supporting the work of the Church. This work involves getting God’s warning message out to this sin-sick world. God has trained ministers to teach the members and help prepare them for their future. But God’s chosen apostle and, to a lesser extent, his evangelists also speak out God’s message to this world, primarily as a warning. These faithful men still cannot do it alone. It is the encouragement, daily prayers, offerings and tithes of God’s faithful members supporting God’s Work that greatly helps hasten righteousness today. God also uses that warning message to call new members into His Church so the work of the Church can continually expand. Again, what an opportunity!
What new members is Leap talking about? PCG has been declining in membership for years, as has all the other Churches of God.
This world’s immediate future will be full of some black days and nightmarish calamities. The vast majority of humanity will be caught off guard and shocked mentally and emotionally. At Christ’s return, many will be depressed and hopeless. But that is where God’s resurrected and changed saints come on the scene. We will be as brilliant as the clearest blue sky and shine like the stars forever and ever. Let’s take these poetic images—our hope—and use them to prepare for the future God has prepared for us. Our final brilliance depends on what we do today!
The world has certainly seen some dark times recently. Wars and rumors of wars abound. Famine, pestilence, fires, earthquakes, all make the news gatherers in the COG's go into orgasmic fits as they claim these are sure signs of the end. the problem we all have with this is that we have lived through eight decades of these self-appointed liars spouting one false prophecy after another. They lie and lie and lie without any sense of guilt or embarrassment.
What does embarrass them all is that if they actually followed the teachings of Jesus they would not need to sit around worrying day in and day out about how awful things are as they need to see things. There is a reason Jesus said that with him the yoke is easy and the burden is light.
Tuesday, October 13, 2020
October 19, 2020 - The Day of Christ!
Woo Hoo! Dave Pack's creature he calls "christ" will be returning on October 19, the last day of Tishri! I could not have asked for a better birthday present! What a birthday this will be! Imagine eating birthday cake with
In spite of Dave's recent spate of failed prophesies with the non-appearance of his creature he calls "christ" appearing at his cult compound in Wadsworth, Dave is still sticking to his October 18/19 date for the return of his creature. Apparently, this creature cannot decide which side of the international dateline to return on, so he may come on the 18th or 19th. Such hard decisions for "christ" to figure out.
Monday, October 12, 2020
Feast of Tabernacles Observations This Year: "A sobering realization fell upon the whole crowd for one long deafening embarrassing moment"
Every year, the members are inevitably asked to give a show of hands on how many feasts they have attended. This year, it was even asked what generation folks were. My, how the pride oozes from each raised hand. People who have attended 60 feasts. Impressive. And here is a child that is 5th generation. Wow. But here is the most important statistic from the whole feast. It was the first time I have seen this happen in 3 decades. I was at a very large feast site. The question was asked, "How many are here observing your very first Feast of Tabernacles?" Not a single hand was raised. You could have heard a pin drop. A sobering realization fell upon the whole crowd for one long deafening embarrassing moment. The minister moved on, wishing he had never asked. We all knew in that moment...the church of God is dead.
Dave Pack: "Remember, most of Nostradamus’ prophecies failed. And again, this could not occur with a prophet of God."
From a reader:
I know that this year's Feast in RCG has gotten a lot of press on this blog (due to all the leaked sermons) as it should. If anything, it highlights how crazy the prophetic teachings (and other teachings) are in RCG, so that's a good thing. Perhaps it can stimulate some of those who are there to wake up to the insanity.
However, for those who don't know, this is the same exact thing that happened last year. There were multiple streamed/distributed messages from the "Pastor General" all covering Christ's supposed return by the end of the Feast. This is literally a repeat of what happened last year. When Christ failed to materialized on the LGD, then Dave proclaimed he would come throughout November. With a new date Every...Single...Saturday... Then when that didn't happen, he claimed Christ would come in the Christmas season and on and on. So we are still going here. It is insane but honestly not a lot more insane than last year. We all bought it up to a point but hey, there is no better time to leave...it's just so obviously wrong.
In order to stay with Dave's group, you either need to be a hireling or invent a new portion of HWA's theology to allow for false prophecies. From talking to members there, it is clear there is a mix of both.
Perhaps after the Feast, the membership could review the following RCG article. I will provide a few helpful quotes for those who don't want to read it.
"These events clearly did not happen. Based on number and size of failures, Nostradamus is a particularly poor prophet. Among false prophets, he falls into extra false.
Now ask: Could the God of the Bible inspire prophecies that did not come to pass? What about even one? No. If so, He becomes a liar. Read what He says: “...I am God, and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure” (Isa. 46:9-10).
Only God can declare the future. And Hebrews 6:18 says it is impossible for Him to lie. His Word is certain. What He foretells—God does not predict—will come to pass. Even one failed prophecy means one was not sent by God."
"Remember, most of Nostradamus’ prophecies failed. And again, this could not occur with a prophet of God. Let’s see: “We [Christians] have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto you do well that you take heed, as unto a light that shines in a dark place...” (II Pet. 1:19). God’s prophecies are sure. They never miss. Not one! And they do shed light in dark places.
Here is God’s command regarding prophets: “And if you [ask] in your heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken? [God’s answer] When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken, but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously: you shall not be afraid of him” (Deut. 18:21-22). This states that men can presume to speak for God. This is very serious to God. It should also be serious to you. You must know if God sent a man—or if the man sent himself."
Sunday, October 11, 2020
The Story of Dave Pack and the Restored Church of God Just Gets Sadder and Sadder
Gary has asked me to listen to Dave Pack's last sermon of the Feast because he is out having fun at the beach. I will find a way to return the favor.
If Dave was to build you a house the same way he wanders around the Bible seeking to make himself correct on this issue of Jesus returning on the last day of the Feast and then, oops, that didn't happen, so now it's the Last Great Day....oops again, your windows would be firmly set in the crawl space, your walls would be made of roofing and the kitchen would be on the roof with the toilet where the stove should be.
Dave is a foolish shepherd and master in all the wrong ways of making scriptures mean what they never meant and putting them together in ways that were never intended, ever. He sees what is not there and hears the voices of scripture that weren't really talking to him.
Since the entire mess cannot be posted due to be copyright protected , let me summarize the issue.
Dave is/was convinced that Jesus was going to return on the last day of the Feast this year, which was Friday last. That did not happen. Then , with meandering and cobbling of scripture, Dave got it to mean on the Last Great Day. That did not happen as that was yesterday, Saturday. Bummer but predictable of course. Now the round Earth where all the brethren, some still in services and some on the way home troubles him and his scenarios.
But, with sleep and having passed deadlines....
"I went to bed last night absolutely knowing nothing was going to happen....suddenly all these verses lined up for late in the day (End of last great day instead)
Dave plays the same game of "Why would God reveal the time when it wasn't the time?" ....
"Would God suspend the watch for a whole year? .....watch watch watch...suspended...I don't believe that at all"
"For all I know, Christ could come during the afternoon service. And I just thought that incase that happened, ...it doesn't mean we're late at all."
Then Dave struggles with reality....
"I know that if Christ does not come this year, they would be crushed"
"They could say my Lord delays his coming"
"Maybe they could rightly say humanly speaking..."
"The mockers and scoffers would sorta be right"
"Our enemies would hear ....and unnecessary reproach would come on the church with me saying things too early or God saying things too early." (NOTE: It would actually be necessary reproach)
So fear not! Dave cannot yet let this failure go yet. I imagine he is having a bad Sunday today, But a few tweeks are in order.
"So back to the dynamic learning process I go through I wanted to share them with you"
A few simple thoughts...I could give you 30 points....
"I absolutely believe Jesus Christ will return today...."
"Those are points that suggest we are right on track'
"This may go longer than we think. Even longer than Mr. Pack thought" Speaking of himself
'Well I'm anticipating him today and I have a general idea of the hour"
"We have to roll with things..."
But some things are sure! And I'm pretty sure Dave will come up with some reason He had to be back in Wadsworth for Jesus to come to his Temple at Wadsworth in the next week.
"October 18th, 19th is the the day of Christ."
Are we talking Sunday night, Monday night? I don't know..."
But Dave is still sure...
It's over...the days of my voice now echo away... I could be wrong,...watch...I doubt it. You'll know in a few hours anyway..."
And now we do.
I have known Dave both in college and from 1973 on in the ministry. I have pastored around him and my parents both babysat his children and my Dad spent hours in the car with him visiting. He is very competitive both in sports and in ministry always having done the most, pastored the most, known the most, baptized the most raised up the most churches blah blah. I have seen him redraw church boundaries such that he could have more people attend his church than the ones next door.
Dave Pack is no theologian. He's not really intelligent or if he is or could be, his gross misunderstanding and self centered view of the Bible erodes it. Dave Pack is not a credible source for anything either Biblical or scientific.
I feel for those who have to sit during his Feast and listen to his drivel. Yet they do so by their own choice. Sometimes I feel sorry for Dave, but then again, he should know better but doesn't or won't. Ignorance is not just what you don't know, it is also what you won't know. And ignore-ance is what one ignores. Dave ignores a lot and seems to learn NOTHING from his numerous mistaken views of scripture.
I don't personally believe any of this will end well for Dave or those who put their trust in him as Shepherd. It's pretty much going to be a mess in time.
Dave may not get out of this without a great falling away from his Post Feast Church. Of course, it will all be predicted in scripture and "WE never fully understood, but I do now, what God is so obviously doing, So get back here, let me rock and gyrate you in your seats over the next year and send it in....."