-----------------------
Dennis On "How Long Will Ye Halt Between 2000 Opinions?
If Dave be Joshua the High Priest coming to his Temple, serve him
If Jesus be the High Priest coming to his Temple, serve him
If Gerald be That Prophet, Serve him
If That Prophet be batshit crazy, don't.
If Culpepper is against adoption, sell the kids
If Culpepper is batshit crazy, tell him to mind his own business
or else
If you have only 3-5 Years left, sell everything and be a witness
If you think ten rounds of 3-5 is too much, go see a movie
If it is the real gun lap, run like hell
If you are tired of false starts and finishes, ask why?
If you believe Dave Pack is the source of all things God and True,
follow him
If you think Dave is batshit crazy, ask for a refund
If you believe you can both build a brand spanking new college of
the best quality and believe "my lord doesn't delay his
coming," go for it.
If building a brand spanking new college of the best quality, with
your money, doesn't seem to fit with "the work will be over in
2016," guard your purse.
If, as a minister, elder or deacon in another COG and wanting to
join RCG, go for it man.
If, as a minister, elder or deacon you have any self respect, can
think for yourself and value your own views, run.
If you really, really, really believe that the BIBLE speaks
specifically of David C Pack in the Book of Haggai, sign up
If you think that's the most ridiculous , self centered, self
absorbed and stupid form of "theology" you have ever heard,
stay put
If you think Church leadership should pass to the leader's
children, serve PCG or RCG
If you think that lesson has been learned, appoint an empowered
board of directors
If you want to go to a genuine Old Testament Feast of Tabernacles,
follow James Malm
If you have ever heard of Jesus, probably not.
If you can't say the word "Jesus" without visions of
fluffy swoozy and nicey, follow Living Church of God
If permitting little children to come unto your Jesus sounds kind,
try UCG
If study papers and rational inquiry into the beliefs and
teachings of one human being are not necessary to you, follow Dave Pack
If you think in the multitude of counsel there might be safety, go
to another movie.
If you think Jesus had a $25,000 (rumored to be) dollar nick
nack of Elijah the Prophet on his desk because he just wanted it, follow Dave
Pack
This one sold for $3600--Shop at Walmart man!
If you think that Dave can say, "Well Mary anointed Jesus
feet with very expensive oil and only Judas got ouchy about it," follow
Dave
If you think building homes for faculty and ministers, with or
without paneling as we read in Haggai is ok for the Goose but not the
Gander, follow Dave
If you think never actually revealing where the money goes and how
much there has been donated, follow Dave
If you think you'd enjoy being under Dave's total control knowing
he won't live any longer than any other human being and you will get stuck with
the bills and no Christ, knock yourself out, follow Dave Pack.
If following HWA's 75 minute truth of sermon length but of course,
not for Dave Pack, is the gold standard, well follow Dave.
If you believe Victor Kubik of UCG has set about the best and
only example of actually feeding, clothing and making life better for
actual human beings in the present time and not wishing them well and to be
warmed and filled, go to UCG
If you think shunning contributions to the American Red Cross or
any kind of actual help to real human beings in need in the now is bullshit and
the money can be better spent on expensive trinkets in Dave Pack's
office, follow Dave.
Now, if you want to see the Wrath of Khan in every storm, follow
Bob Thiel
If you don't mind a not so earth shattering work in this end time,
ditto
If you are ok with , "I am that prophet,"
"And yes brethren, I am an Apostle," or "I got an accidental
double portion and turned it into my being a genuine Prophet," you ain't
right but that which you do, do quickly.
If you don't mind saying, "Yikes, I gave 4,000, 6,000, 10,000 ,
25,000 (for a trinket) to my church when tax time comes around, keep up the
good work.
If you find yourself a little short and in need of some help but
want to find out monies set aside for one purpose are often spent on other
purposes and you are not worthy, follow....probably anyone who collects
3-T
If you feel in your heart, you are an "appropriate
male," and can lead church services, contact Bob Thiel
If you believe you are a worthy young man and want to go to summer
camp, contact Dave Pack.
If you want a sane, balanced and actually fun camp experience
without indoctrination, propaganda and narrow thinking, go to Camp Grenada.
If you want more discipline and stories of torture, mayhem and
what worthy youth do behind the scenes at camp, Go to Gitmo-Ohio-on-76
If 15 years from now you want your worthy children to tell you
what they really heard and saw and went through, see above.
contact Dennis at DennisCDiehl@aol.com
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
Well, point made I
suppose. Life is decisions but in the COGs there are way too many
others making your common life decisions. You really have to
recapture your common sense and learn to tell your just a bit too intrusive and
opinionated pastor and church where your boundaries are and mean it.
Not that men like Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack and far too many others understand
anything about boundaries but you simply have to set them. You will
notice these types of men have very strict boundaries when it comes
to your ideas affecting them. But they have little or no boundaries
when it comes to their ideas affecting you. They expect their ideas and
awesomeness to affect you to their advantage.
Do they see it?
Are they sincere? Sometimes I think no and yes and sometimes it just
looks like mental illness to me hidden well in a church setting which would not
survive two minutes at any real business. What we have seen and continue
to see is men who really do have personal, un addressed issues in their own
lives running the religion show. Be they merely ego centric or totally
narcissistic, a bit odd and weird or totally pathological, in fact,
has to be left up to others who study such things. But you don't
have to be the victim of it. That story has already been told over the
past 70 years of Church of God antics and intentions and many are only
reinventing the wheel of religion gone nuts in yet another generation if we
don't learn from it.
I can't un ring my own
bell, but I did not and will not keep ringing it and I hope you can dig down
inside and find the courage to say the same.
It's ok to put yourself,
your family and your perspectives first in your life. You can't help but
be anything else but yourself, well...unless you are in most of the COG
splinters and slivers. Then it is a sin to be repented of.
contact Dennis at DennisCDiehl@aol.com
-------------------------------
Dennis on: "It's None Of Your Business!"
Now there is a phrase
I'd like to see the average Church of God member adopt ASAP and understand what
topics it might apply to as they allow themselves to be ruled over by the
ministerial elite, such as a self appointed Apostle, Prophet or That
Prophet . I know the average COG member thinks that they have
to answer every question and inquiry a minister can come up with, but this is
not actually so.
"Why weren't you at Church this Sabbath?"
None of your business
"Where were you for Bible Study?"
None of your business
"I have checked your tithing and you aren't up to date."
That's really none of your business
"Do you have a blog site?
None of your business
"Are you reading blogs about the Church?'
None of your business
(My favorite)
"Do you know Dennis Diehl?"
None of your business
"Do you believe this is God's Church and I am it's
leader?"
Ummm..none of your business
"Why weren't you at Spokesman Club, Church outing, family
night, movie night, district weekend, join the team, support the change drive
or contribute to the Steuben fund?
None of your business
"What did you say to Mr We Don't Like Him?
None of your business
"Have you been talking to Mr. or Mrs. Marked for Life?"
None of your business
"What is your annual income?"
None of your business
"Does your wife work and what is her income?"
None of your business
"Is this your comment on BannedbyHWA??"
UMMM....NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
"How much 2nd Tithe do you have?"
None of your business
"Shouldn't you be third tithing by now?"
None of our business
"Where are you going for the Feast?"
None of your business
HERE ARE SOME EVEN BETTER ANSWERS IT WOULD BE REFRESHING TO SEE COG
MEMBERS PRACTICE MORE.
"Do you agree I am Joshua the predicted High Priest of
Haggai?"
Not really...No. You can be if you want.
"You are not to talk with or see your unconverted
family."
No. I'll talk with and see whomever I please.
"I marked that person. They are enemies of the Church."
No, that's my mom and I love her
"Do you understand I am 'That Prophet?"
I believe you believe that but , no I don't personally
"If I get off into strange and unusual ideas or go weird on
the church and make the Bible start meaning things it never meant or see myself
spoken of by the prophets,
will you call me on it?"
Yes and I am......
"Because you know that when that happens I won't want you to
remember I said this.
I'll say this does not apply.
No, no, no, no...this
is different.
Will you call me on it?"
Yes I will
"But I said 'I'm not going anywhere Brethren' so do you trust
me not to?"
Oh no sir. I trust no man and the older I get the less I would
and do.
Let me ask you. If I call you on going weird and strange and
trying to get me to forget you said to be looking out for that in you, will you
listen?"
"NO..I won't have to because I said I am not going anywhere
and that should be good enough for you. Do you think I would get weird or
strange ideas about myself like seeing myself spoken of by the prophets?"
Yes sir you have and you have already gone somewhere and I'm not
going.
"Do you read Banned HWA?"
Yes and time will tell if Haggai was really all about you, which it
is not.
"Hey, I'm not done with you. Where are you going?"
None of your business
-----------------------
Dennis On: Dear Member and Minister - Pick Only One"
Dear Member and Minister
Pick One Only
"Gone will be study papers and committees to continue Joe Tkach’s
policy of examining all doctrine to “see where Mr. Armstrong may have been
wrong.” And at these conferences there will be
no voting on budgets, leaders, policies, changes in bylaws, and other
unscriptural time-wasting nonsense brought by the devil that only serve
to divide and confuse God’s ministers and God’s people"
Impostle David C. Pack
or
The admonition of
scripture to the individual is to obtain a wide range of input, opinions
and facts before coming to a conclusion and making a final decisions. Confer
with your spouse, friends, and relatives. Seek much legal advice, get a second
and third opinion and meet with professionals. Obtain a multitude of published
documents, books and findings. Never rely on the advice of any one doctor,
lawyer or instructor.
AND NEVER RELY ON ONE MAN
FILTERING YOUR WORLD THOUGH HIS SHALLOW AND NARROW MIND FOR YOU!
Proverbs 1:5
A wise man will hear and will
increase learning. And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels.
Proverbs 15:22
Without counsel purposes are
disappointed; but in the multitude of counselors they are established
1 Thess 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that
which is good.
This scripture is clearly about
proving what church ministry says in sermons and sermonettes and in this case,
the foolish babble that comes out of IMpostle Pack's mouth every week.
IMpostle Dave says there will be no voting on
budgets. This will assure that your hard
earned money is spent without your permission on things you would not spend it
on for things you would not spend it for.
Dave, as always intends to do exactly as he wishes. He will get your church in so much trouble
you won't believe it. What kind of an
organization of any has NO oversight, NO input allowed financially and ONE man
making all the decisions. You are true
fools in every sense, Biblical or otherwise if you fall for this con.
IMpostle Dave says you will never get to voice an opinion
about who leads you. Only he can lead.
He has assigned all other ministers everywhere to IMpostle Pack
assistants and only if you are worthy.
Remember, only WORTHY YOUTH get to go to summer camp so how the hell
worthy do you think you will have to prove to IMpostle Pack YOU ARE to get to
attach yourself to him.
Members, YOU will
get the minister that the IMpostle Dave says you get. Like Dave himself , who daily had people
calling HQ in days gone buy to save them from Dave or at times called me to ask
for help , you will be stuck. If you get
a foolish yes man for a minister, you're stuck.
You have no recourse. You will be
thrown out of church long before anyone Dave approves of. Worse than foolish if you allow this. No organization on earth would put up with
Dave Pack.
IMpostle Dave says
you won't get any say in policy or CHANGES in by laws. That means he can do whatever is
expedient. Being right and doing what is
expedient is not the same thing. What
Dave so badly tried to hide for years as he left his trail of tears from church
to church he now flaunts. Dave is in
your faces folks and I suggest you either not fall for this or get back in
his.
Anything that Dave does not want to face, understand or
have to accept to him is "unscriptural, time wasting ,
nonsense." How about these
scriptures on there being safety in a multitude of advice and counsel? Are
these, for you, unscriptural and time wasting nonsense? It seems that these SCRIPTURAL ADMONITIONS
for not making an ass out of yourself and fools out of others are the truth and
IMpostle Pack is dead wrong. Maybe I
can't read. Can you?
IMpostle Pack will allow no studies to show yourself
approved. No RIGHTLY dividing the word of truth, whatever that may be for
you. NO inquiry that goes against the
Almighty IMpostle Pack. Are you people
brain dead? Do you have any original
thoughts in your own heads that you will defend in the face of this theological
clown and tyrant?
A word to you 16 buffoons for Christ that "counsel
and advice." We know you don't. You
are kiss ass yes men. You want your job
and whatever perks IMpostle Pack has promised you. Find just ONE thing you disagree with him
over and bring it to his attention in front of the other 15. Let us know how that goes for you. Just remember, freely he has given and
history has show that freely he shall and can take it back. Ask Michael Venish how it feels to have the
fist shaking IMpostle Pack in your face when he thought to caution IMpostle
Pack on spending money on a campus sending a clear message that Dave's lord
does indeed delay his coming and to think twice about calling himself some kind
of Joshua the High Priest, which we know is exactly what he thinks to do. IMpostle Dave left he and his wife destitute
and a finer man I have never met in the COGs.
You won't have a chance.
IMpostle Pack is obviously both totally stuck in his past
and determined to reproduce it. Of
course, along with it will come ALL that came from it. There will be investigations into IMpostle
Pack and it will come from the endless stream of people he has offended and
alienated. As many go out the back door
as come in the front it seems. That will
never end for both minister and member.
If you think he is creating drama now, just wait. You have not seen anything yet.
IMpostle Pack is a mere Bible reader as are most COG
ministers. They weave and cobble
scriptures together that never belong together to make them mean what they
never were meant to mean. Haggai is just
one example of making the OT mean what it never meant.
Three times I have challenged the IMpostle to debate me
on all things Bible and prophecy and
three times no response. I did not
challenge him thinking he would. I
challenged him to show you he would not.
Big fish, small pond and all that.
IMpossible Pack is wrongly dividing the book of
Haggai. Before too long you will know
that in your soul unless you are totally blind, deaf and dumb. It is not about IMpostle Pack and he ain't no
Joshua. Or as any Rabbi or OT Scholar
might tell the IMpostle , "I know
Joshua...I got my doctorate in Joshua..and you ain't no Joshua."
What a ridiculous perspective this man has. He is not special. He is not found anywhere in the Bible. He does not have the only direct line to
Christ or the Almighty. He doesn't know
everything and in fact actually knows little about the real origins, intent,
history and politics of the whole Bible.
He is NOT well read and wants you not to be well read either. Booklets are not Books and abiding by the
views of just one man in this time of history is simply foolish.
So think about it.
Read his own words about what will never be permitted and then read the
scriptures about getting wise counsel and there being safety in that. Like you need to be told that???? Herbert W Armstrong did many foolish and
hurtful things because no one could tell him what to do or not do either. He wasted millions on himself and his opinion
of himself. HWA had to pay leaders to
see him. That's how the real world
works. NOT ONE of the leaders HWA
visited gave a rats ass about who he said or thought he was and what his
message was. And besides, HWA was too
afraid to actually preach any Gospel to the world. He put it in terms they understood, not so
they would understand it, but so he could at least get a picture of himself
with them. I understand Prince Charles
once told HWA he "needed to learn his place" and indeed he never did. IMpostle Pack won't either unless it is the
dominant one.
I will remind both minister and member alike one more
time what IMpostle Pack said about himself
and then just sit back the next few weeks months and watch the Spirit of
Ron Weinland manifest itself once again in Impostle David C. Pack.
Dave challenged you with these words. YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN THEM AS HE HOPED
"I want to make a statement about...me...now,(Boy, now there's a rare topic) if I became deceived, (And now you have ) I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling you if I go off into strange ideas, misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me. I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."
There a have it....the ball is in your court. He told you what to do even though now he has
told you all there will be no challenges to anything he says, does or
wants. He is now at that place where he
told you how he would behave and is now telling you he hopes you forget he told
you.
So what will it be????? :
"There will be no more......."
or
"In the multitude of counsel there is safety"
It's an old story and Dave didn't invent it, but he is
recreating it.
Revelation 2
“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in
his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands. I know your deeds,your hard work and your
perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have
tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.
In modern language:
Dave Pack: "I
am an Apostle. I am Joshua the High
Priest"
Church of God: " No you aren't."
Jesus of Revelation:
"Well done."
Dave Pack:
"Doh!"
Peace...
---------------------
Job 39
New International Version
(NIV)
Ok...I'm Back...Answer me
this!
39 “Do
you know when the mountain goats give birth?
Yes sir I do...
Do you watch when the doe bears her fawn?
Sometimes...
2 Do you count the months till they bear?
Yes sir...It is 196 to 201
Days of Gestation
Do you know the time they give birth?
Ummmm...Yes sir I do.
3 They crouch down and bring forth their young;
their labor pains are ended.
4 Their young thrive and grow strong in the wilds;
they leave and do not return.
Yes sir, that's how it
works but crossing highways these days is tough on them.
5 “Who
let the wild donkey go free?
Who untied its ropes?
6 I gave it the wasteland as its home,
the salt flats as its habitat.
7 It laughs at the commotion in the town;
it does not hear a driver’s shout.
8 It ranges the hills for its pasture
and searches for any green thing.
Who untied its ropes?
6 I gave it the wasteland as its home,
the salt flats as its habitat.
7 It laughs at the commotion in the town;
it does not hear a driver’s shout.
8 It ranges the hills for its pasture
and searches for any green thing.
Oh no sir...I did not do
it. They are tough to pin down for sure, but it can be done and sometimes
we laugh at them
9 “Will
the wild ox consent to serve you?
Will it stay by your manger at night?
10 Can you hold it to the furrow with a harness?
Will it till the valleys behind you?
11 Will you rely on it for its great strength?
Will you leave your heavy work to it?
12 Can you trust it to haul in your grain
and bring it to your threshing floor?
Will it stay by your manger at night?
10 Can you hold it to the furrow with a harness?
Will it till the valleys behind you?
11 Will you rely on it for its great strength?
Will you leave your heavy work to it?
12 Can you trust it to haul in your grain
and bring it to your threshing floor?
Well sir...now don't get
angry with me, but yes, we have gotten their consent , they stay put in the
stall and barn and they can til up a valley storm. It does all the heavy
work and that's the way I like it. They pull a mean wagon too.
13 “The
wings of the ostrich flap joyfully,
though they cannot compare
with the wings and feathers of the stork.
14 She lays her eggs on the ground
and lets them warm in the sand,
15 unmindful that a foot may crush them,
that some wild animal may trample them.
16 She treats her young harshly, as if they were not hers;
she cares not that her labor was in vain,
17 for God did not endow her with wisdom
or give her a share of good sense.
18 Yet when she spreads her feathers to run,
she laughs at horse and rider.
though they cannot compare
with the wings and feathers of the stork.
14 She lays her eggs on the ground
and lets them warm in the sand,
15 unmindful that a foot may crush them,
that some wild animal may trample them.
16 She treats her young harshly, as if they were not hers;
she cares not that her labor was in vain,
17 for God did not endow her with wisdom
or give her a share of good sense.
18 Yet when she spreads her feathers to run,
she laughs at horse and rider.
Yes sir I sure agree with
you there. Some animals just don't seem to have paternal instincts. Lots
of fish eat their own. I guess that's why the have so many. And
most birds can outfly a horse and rider sir...just sayin'
19 “Do
you give the horse its strength
or clothe its neck with a flowing mane?
20 Do you make it leap like a locust,
striking terror with its proud snorting?
21 It paws fiercely, rejoicing in its strength,
and charges into the fray.
22 It laughs at fear, afraid of nothing;
it does not shy away from the sword.
23 The quiver rattles against its side,
along with the flashing spear and lance.
24 In frenzied excitement it eats up the ground;
it cannot stand still when the trumpet sounds.
25 At the blast of the trumpet it snorts, ‘Aha!’
It catches the scent of battle from afar,
the shout of commanders and the battle cry.
or clothe its neck with a flowing mane?
20 Do you make it leap like a locust,
striking terror with its proud snorting?
21 It paws fiercely, rejoicing in its strength,
and charges into the fray.
22 It laughs at fear, afraid of nothing;
it does not shy away from the sword.
23 The quiver rattles against its side,
along with the flashing spear and lance.
24 In frenzied excitement it eats up the ground;
it cannot stand still when the trumpet sounds.
25 At the blast of the trumpet it snorts, ‘Aha!’
It catches the scent of battle from afar,
the shout of commanders and the battle cry.
Oh for
sure Sir.
26 “Does
the hawk take flight by your wisdom
and spread its wings toward the south?
27 Does the eagle soar at your command
and build its nest on high?
28 It dwells on a cliff and stays there at night;
a rocky crag is its stronghold.
29 From there it looks for food;
its eyes detect it from afar.
30 Its young ones feast on blood,
and where the slain are, there it is.”
and spread its wings toward the south?
27 Does the eagle soar at your command
and build its nest on high?
28 It dwells on a cliff and stays there at night;
a rocky crag is its stronghold.
29 From there it looks for food;
its eyes detect it from afar.
30 Its young ones feast on blood,
and where the slain are, there it is.”
Hawks and eagles are
awesome birds for sure Sir. We...umm...we have gotten pretty good at
using them when needed.
Eagles can be a real
challenge for sure and can they ever find prey
Sir...are you ok? Are
you upset with me?
Oh..no..no..I
just haven't had this conversation in thousands of years and wasn't expecting
your answers. You know your stuff. Hold on a sec...I am going to
have to rewrite the last chapter...BRB....
(waiting)
Err...um...ok.
I'm back. Here goes.....
Job 42
New
International Version (NIV)
Job
42 Then the Lord replied
2 “I know
that you guys have learned a lot since the last time I challenged a man;
Humans have gotten a lot smarter and it's more difficult to question them..
3 I asked who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’
Humans have gotten a lot smarter and it's more difficult to question them..
3 I asked who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’
Boy...did I
ask the right person or what!
Surely I spoke of things I thought you'd never understand, but you did,
really great things and I'm pleased you actually know the answers.
Surely I spoke of things I thought you'd never understand, but you did,
really great things and I'm pleased you actually know the answers.
4 “You said,
‘Listen now, and I will speak;
I will answer you,
and you sure did.’
5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.
I will answer you,
and you sure did.’
5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.
I'm going
to have to think up new questions for humans.
6 Therefore I'm sorry
and I'll ask better questions next time
6 Therefore I'm sorry
and I'll ask better questions next time
Good job!”
(PAUSE)
Hey Job...or
whatever your name is.
Do you know
the size of the whole universe?
Do you know
what bosons and quarks are?
Do you
understand string theory and parallel universes if I was to say there really
were such things?
Have you
ever considered the universe is really a hologram?
Ha! Mr.
Smarty....Do you know what a Black Hole the nature of time and space?
I bet you
know how you humans got here don't you....
Yes sir, I do....
You have
done really well. I'm very proud of you.
Thank you for making us
conscious and sentinent beings along the way sir.
You're
welcome...Use it Wisely
Goodbye for
now.....Goodbye sir....
--------------------
"Whatta Ya Mean... Yes YOU Know?"
2013 AD Job Update
Job 38
New International Version (NIV)
38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm and said:
2 “Who is this that obscures my plans
with words
without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question
you,
and you shall
answer me.
Yes sir, It's me Dennis. Not meaning to offend sir. Ok, I will give my best answers sir.
4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you
understand.
I wasn't here yet sir. That was a very long time ago as
you well know.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a
measuring line across it?
With all due respect sir:
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its
cornerstone
Well sir, it has taken some time but I think we got this
figured out now.
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the
angels shouted for joy
Well sir, I can't speak for that part. I wasn't there and
I can't see or hear them.
I do know that Venus is the real son of the morning star
and when it falls back to...oh never mind.
8 “Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst
forth from the womb,
9 when I made the clouds its garment
and wrapped it
in thick darkness,
10 when I fixed limits for it
and set its
doors and bars in place,
11 when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther;
here is where
your proud waves halt’?
Yes sir, I know what you mean. It is awesome. I believe we do understand that now and the
burst from the womb concept as well.
Amazing really sir!
12 “Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the
dawn its place,
13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the
wicked out of it ?
No sir, I have never commanded the sun to rise. It would
not do it if I did. But I believe it would do it even if I didn't, with all due
respect. As for shaking the wicked out
of it, well that's not my think or job I suppose.
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features
stand out like those of a garment.
15 The wicked are denied their light,
and their
upraised arm is broken.
Yes sir, I don't quite know what you mean by this but
could you ask me more questions?
16 “Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea
or walked in
the recesses of the deep?
Oh Yes sir we have!
It is just awesome and not a little bit scary but we got this one down
pat.
17 Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen
the gates of the deepest darkness?
18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?
Tell me, if you
know all this.
Well, again sir, with all due respect, Yes, it has all
been shown to us. Amazing place we have here!
19 “What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does
darkness reside?
20 Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the
paths to their dwellings?
Yes sir, I believe so sir.
21 Surely you know, for you were already born!
You have lived
so many years!
Ok Sir, I think you can stop with the sarcasm. I know my
place in the whole scheme of your things.
22 “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow
or seen the
storehouses of the hail
23 which I reserve for times of trouble,
for days of war
and battle?
Well, I don't know about the reserve for times of trouble
or war and battles, but yes, I know where both snow and hail are stored and
come from.
24 What is the way to the place where the lightning is
dispersed,
or the place
where the east winds are scattered over the earth?
25 Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,?
and a path for
the thunderstorm,
26 To water a land where no one lives,
an uninhabited
desert,
27 to satisfy a desolate wasteland
and make it
sprout with grass?
28 Does the rain have a father?
Who fathers the
drops of dew?
Well sir, again, yes, we understand that now low these
2500 years later or more, depending.
Sir? Are you
getting annoyed with me?
29 From whose womb comes the ice?
Who gives birth
to the frost from the heavens
30 when the waters become hard as stone,
when the
surface of the deep is frozen?
Oh oh! I know that
one!
31 “Can you bind the chains] of the Pleiades?
Can you loosen
Orion’s belt?
32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their
seasons
or lead out the
Bear] with its cubs?
Well no sir, I can't do that. It's just too big and too
far away and I am just a man. But we do know what they are and how seasons
work! It's awesome to say the least!
33 Do you know the laws of the heavens?
No sir, not in the way others do but we do understand a
lot more than we used to.
Can you set up
God’s dominion over the earth?
34 “Can you raise your voice to the clouds
and cover
yourself with a flood of water?
35 Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?
Do they report
to you, ‘Here we are’?
No Sir, I can't command these things to happen, they just
do happen and I know how they happen and why.
Sir, you're getting cheeky with me again.
36 Who gives the ibis wisdom?
or gives the
rooster understanding?
37 Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?
Who can tip
over the water jars of the heavens
38 when the dust becomes hard
and the clods
of earth stick together?
Yes sir, I understand. Not me for sure but we do know
where they get their instincts
39 “Do you hunt the prey for the lioness
and satisfy the
hunger of the lions
40 when they crouch in their dens
or lie in wait
in a thicket?
41 Who provides food for the raven
when its young
cry out to God
and wander
about for lack of food?
Well sir, I guess they just know what other creatures they like to eat and go get them.
No, I don't hunt for them or provide their food.
I have a Shih Tzu though and yes I do provide her food.
She's hilarious.
Sir? Sir? Are you still there? Where did you go?
I'll be back later Dennis. I gotta think this through a bit. Maybe I'm
asking the wrong questions for this day and age. Stay tuned.
But you did good!
I like you!
-----------------------
Dennis On NOAA Predicting Where Bob's Wrath Filled 'god' Will Strike Next
The Plains Truth About
Oklahoma-Tuesday/Wednesday Update
Deity not
giving up. Going to TRY again. So says The NOAA Prophetic Institute
for Trying Harder
URGENT
DAY 2
CONVECTIVE PROPHECY
NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK
0100 AM CDT MON JUN 03 2013
NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK
0100 AM CDT MON JUN 03 2013
VALID 041200Z – 051200Z
MULTIPLE, " THIS IS GOING TO HURT ME MORE THAN IT DOES YOU", ASSULTS FOR SEVERE TSTM DEVELOPMENT AND I HOPE TO BRING YOU INTO MY CHURCH ARE POSSIBLE ESPECIALLY TUESDAY AFTERNOON/EVENING. WITH A RELATIVELY STEEP ELEVATED MIXED LAYER AND LOW-LEVEL MOISTURE, AND A VERY ANGRY DEITY, HAVING RETURNED INTO THE REGION /SOLID 60S F SURFACE DEWPOINTS/…THE DEITY SHOULD BECOME MODERATELY UNSTABLE BY AFTERNOON…ESPECIALLY ACROSS SOUTHERN KS AND WESTERN/NORTHERN OK AND ADJACENT TX PANHANDLE. ON THE SOUTHWEST FRINGE OF EARLY DAY CLOUD COVER/PRECIPITATION…SEVERE TSTM
DEVELOPMENT MAY OCCUR ALONG THE WSW-ENE ORIENTED FRONTAL ZONE ACROSS
SOUTHERN/EASTERN KS. DEEP CONVECTIVE TRYING DEVELOPING…AT LEAST ON AN
ISOLATED BASIS…WILL BE POSSIBLE BY LATE AFTERNOON NEAR THE SURFACE
TRIPLE POINT ACROSS WEST/NORTHWEST OK OR NEARBY TX PANHANDLE. OTHER
ATTEMPTS TOWARD REPENTANCE ARE LIKELY TO INCREASE ACROSS THE CO/NORTHEAST NM FRONT RANGE AND SPREAD EAST-SOUTHEASTWARD ACROSS THE HIGH PLAINS INTO TUESDAY AFTERNOON.
GIVEN THE EXPECTED MOISTURE/INSTABILITY ACROSS THE REGION…VERTICAL SHEAR AND SEVERE ANGULAR SPINNING BY THE DEITY WILL BE MORE THAN SUFFICIENT /40+ KT/ FOR SUPERCELLS/SUSTAINED SEVERE TRYING AND MULTIPLE ATTACKS CAPABLE OF LARGE HAIL…WIND DAMAGE…AND PERHAPS A TORNADO OR TWO. WITH AID OF A NOCTURNALLY STRENGTHENING "I"LL BE BACK IF THIS DOESN"T WORK THIS TIME" . THE DEITY MAY PERSIST/CONSOLIDATE AS HE MOVES GENERALLY EASTWARD IN VICINITY OF THE REPENTANCE ZONE TUESDAY NIGHT.
We made very effort to interview the Deity before He leaves for Oklahoma but a spokesman said there would be no questions taken but suggested we either send for the free booklets, The Four Hosemen of the Puckerlips and If Bronze Age Gods Are Good Enough for the Church, Why Are They Not Good Enough for YOU! , or go to our Deity Tries Again protection centers.
He said no one would call on us...well unless you lived in Oklahoma today and tomorrow.
-----------------------------------
Dennis "Musing on Trying and the Weather 'gods'"
Muse on This...
A low pressure system typically brings stormy
weather
or
The Bible shows that whirlwinds are one of the
forms of weather that God controls:
3 The Lord is slow to anger and great in power,
And will not at all acquit the wicked.
The Lord has His way
In the whirlwind and in the storm,
And the clouds are the dust of His feet. (Nahum 1;3)
And will not at all acquit the wicked.
The Lord has His way
In the whirlwind and in the storm,
And the clouds are the dust of His feet. (Nahum 1;3)
If You HAD to Guess--Which Would It Be?
#1
Job 27:
21 A cyclone sweeps them up — gone!
Not a trace of them left, not even a footprint.
22 Catastrophes relentlessly pursue them;
they run this way and that, but there’s no place to hide —
23 Pummeled by the weather,
blown to kingdom come by the storm.’
THE MESSAGE: The Bible in Contemporary Language © 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson.)
Not a trace of them left, not even a footprint.
22 Catastrophes relentlessly pursue them;
they run this way and that, but there’s no place to hide —
23 Pummeled by the weather,
blown to kingdom come by the storm.’
THE MESSAGE: The Bible in Contemporary Language © 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson.)
#2
National Atmospheric and Oceanic Administration
NOAA
Severe Weather
Thunderstorms, Tornadoes, and Lightning - Nature’s most
violent storms.
Thunderstorms affect relatively small areas when compared with hurricanes and winter storms. The typical thunderstorm is 15 miles in diameter and lasts an average of 30 minutes. Despite their small size, ALL thunderstorms are dangerous! Of the estimated 100,000 thunderstorms that occur each year in the United States, about 10 percent are classified as severe.
Thunderstorms affect relatively small areas when compared with hurricanes and winter storms. The typical thunderstorm is 15 miles in diameter and lasts an average of 30 minutes. Despite their small size, ALL thunderstorms are dangerous! Of the estimated 100,000 thunderstorms that occur each year in the United States, about 10 percent are classified as severe.
Tornadoes - Although
tornadoes occur in many parts of the world, they are found most frequently in
the United States.....
- A tornado is a violently rotating column of air extending from a thunderstorm to the ground.
- Tornadoes cause an average of 70 fatalities and 1,500 injuries in the U.S. each year..
- The strongest tornadoes have rotating winds of more than 250 mph.
- Tornadoes can be one mile wide and stay on the ground over 50 miles.
- Tornadoes may appear nearly transparent until dust and debris are picked up or a cloud forms within the funnel. The average tornado moves from southwest to northeast, but tornadoes have been known to move in any direction.
- The average forward speed is 30 mph but may vary from nearly stationary to 70 mph.
- Waterspouts are tornadoes which form over warm water. They can move onshore and cause damage to coastal areas.
Lightning...
- Causes an average of about 60 fatalities and 300 injuries each year.
- Lightning occurs in all thunderstorms; each year lightning strikes the United States 25 million times.
- The energy from one lightning flash could light a 100-watt light bulb for more than 3 months.
- Most lightning fatalities and injuries occur when people are caught outdoors in the summer months during the afternoon and evening.
- Lightning can occur from cloud-to-cloud, within a cloud, cloud-to-ground, or cloud-to-air.
- Many fires in the western United States and Alaska are started by lightning.
- The air near a lightning strike is heated to 50,000°F--hotter than the surface of the sun!
- The rapid heating and cooling of the air near the lightning channel causes a shock wave that results in thunder.
- When Thunder Roars, Go Indoors! - NWS lighnting safety site helps ypu learn more about lightning risks and how to protect yourself, your loved ones and your belongings. The site offers a comprehensive page of handouts, brochures, links and more.
- Straight-line winds are responsible for most thunderstorm wind damage.
- Winds can exceed 100 mph!
- One type of straight-line wind, the downburst, is a small area of rapidly descending air beneath a thunderstorm
- A downburst can cause damage equivalent to a strong tornado and can be extremely dangerous to aviation.
- A “dry microburst” is a downburst that occurs with little or no rain. These destructive winds are most common in the western United States
- Is the #1 cause of deaths associated with thunderstorms...more than 140 fatalities each year
- Most flash flood fatalities occur at night and most victims are people who become trapped in automobiles.
- Six inches of fast-moving water can knock you off your feet; a depth of two feet will cause most vehicles to float.
- Strong rising currents of air within a storm, called updrafts, carry water droplets to a height where freezing occurs.
- Ice particles grow in size, becoming too heavy to be supported by the updraft, and fall to the ground.
- Causes more than $1 billion in damage to property and crops each year.
- Large stones fall at speeds faster than 100 mph
The pagans that
surrounded the Hebrews, who historians now feel were merely low class
Canaanites of the day who detached from the family instead of battled their way
into the Promised Land, felt this guy did all the dirty work.
Baal (Lord) Raingod
The real purpose of
Genesis One was NOT to explain how everything was created in reality but to
send one clear message to Mr. Baal and all the gods of wind, rain, fire,
animals, vegetables and minerals. Our Hebrew God MADE Your little
gods. And the rest we call the Bible.
This short essay is not
about proving that weather is just weather whether you believe it or not.
It is about common sense in our own times. It is about superstition gone
literal and religion gone nuts. For thousands of years humans have seen
the anger of the gods and of the Hebrew/Christian God in the weather.
That's a very very old superstition. Humans anthropromorphize the common
things of our planet that shape and form it and occasionally run into it into
acts of the gods and even today of God.
This...
Becomes this...
The first is a reality
that has erased life from this planet several times in the past and without
which humans would not have evolved to the present state. The second is
the humans who have conscious awareness of who they are and that they can die
and then what trying to explain it all to themselves. But that was
over the past 100,000 years and we have learned more in the last 200 years than
in all of them. We have learned more in the last 20 years than the last
200.
Read all the "where
were you's in Job asked by YHVH to Job and realize that most if not all those
questions that Job was stuck with a "no I don't" answer , today are
simple "Sure we do," answers most grade school kids can answer.
Bob Thiel and others use
the ancient "this is where we think it comes from and why" scriptures
to motivate people not only to "repent" but in reality to be so
impressed by their insights (which are not actually impressive) and use
of ancient ideas that they will come to them , join them and support them. It's
a very old gig. All fundamentalists do the same thing. Dave Pack
motivates with the normal, though violent weather issues on the planet as do
they all. But the conscious or subconscious motive is to get others to
join their organizations and support them in the style they want to get used
to. IMHO. I'm not saying they don't believe their own views or do
so insincerely, but I do believe they are stuck in time and selling ignorance
and stupid to other sincere folk. Intelligent
stupidity is not a great quality.
"God uses weather and other events to TRY to get
people’s attention.
God does NOT WANT people to suffer, but to turn to Him:
God does NOT WANT people to suffer, but to turn to Him:
Mercy! If a God wanted
to get my attention, just talk to me! I'm listening if I can prove I am
not psychotic or schizophrenic. God can't "not want" and
"want" at the same time. That's the old "This is going to
hurt me more than it hurts you," when in fact it does not hurt any God at
all and totally hurts humans. YHVH of the OT does not seem
"hurt" by the 2,140,000 or so documented and horrific murders of men
women and children who disagree with or never heard of the Hebrew
version. NOT ONE OF THOSE FOLK TURNED TO YHVH because of this approach.
10 “Therefore you, O son of man, say to the house of Israel: ‘Thus you say, “If our transgressions and our sins lie upon us, and we pine away in them, how can we then live?”‘ 11 Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’ (Ezekiel 33:10-11)
Oops..
Deuteronomy 28:63 Just as it pleased the LORD to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.Proverbs 1:24-26 But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you.
Guess it depends on who
you quote
Not every OT prophet saw
Baal (Lord) now YHVH (Lord) in the weather. Or if he did there was a time
when YHVH set him straight on that.
1 Kings 19:11-13
King James Version (KJV)11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was NOT in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was NOT in the earthquake:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was NOT in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.13 And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?"
Here is the modern version of that "Still and small voice..."
About 1,500 galaxies are visible
in this deep view of the universe, taken by allowing the Hubble Space Telescope
to stare at the same tiny patch of sky for 10 consecutive days in 1995. The
image covers an area of sky only about width of a dime viewed from 75 feet
away.
Or a grain of sand held out at
arms length on the end of your finger.
contact Dennis at: denniscdiehl@AOL.com
------------------------------
Are We
the Scoffers of I Peter 3 and Are We In Big Trouble?
Every church pastor I have ever met or heard on the radio pulls
out the "Scoffer Card" when times get tough. The local Baptist
churches around Greenville must be experiencing a lot flack these days from the
youth and from people who come and go through their congregations because they
all are giving sermons on this scoffing and persecution for their
views. They deserve it as they refuse to update themselves and think it's
1945. I think these guys meet every Monday morning and pick the theme on
radio of the week because they all speak of it using the same scriptures all
week long. Scoffing at religion and religious leaders was not
invented by WCG and the splinter explosion that came from
it. They did perfect it however providing endless reasons for scoffers
to scoff.
Most theologians now feel that I and
ll Peter were not written by the Gospel Peter and in fact, each book was
probably written by two different men 70-90 and as late as 112 AD. These
are books written in the name of Peter but in excellent Greek using the Greek
OT which most feel any real Galilean Peter would never do nor could he.
He was just a fisherman after all. It is pseudopigrapha or a false
writing written to address the great disappointment of still no show
Jesus.
In the WCG/Splinter experience, we have been given an never ending
parade of self appointed prophets, priests, witnesses, messengers,
watchers and Apostles that make their living off the concept of
"soon," "just around the corner," "by Feast
time," "by Pentecost" , "By 2016" and of course,
the New Testament gives them all the terminology they need to promote the soon
of the Second Coming. However the modern day splinters and all of
fundamentalist Christianity are having exactly the same problems today with the
no show Jesus as the early churches did back when those scriptures actually
applied to them. It is humorous to me that 2000 years later, a minister
can still quote the ancient texts as if they were just written for today and no
one questions this.
In reality, NONE of the NT soon and shortly statements are for us.
It was for them and it failed to deliver. Duality and types were invented
to solve this problem and keep it all going low these thousands of years later.
Of course early Christians scoffed at the ministry . They
were the ones telling everyone "things which must SHORTLY come
to pass." That "the hour NOW IS!" That "the day
is FAR SPENT" and "Little Children, it is the LAST HOUR."
Of course it wasn't. The Apostle Paul spent his thirty year career
telling everyone that he would be among the "we who are alive and
remain." He fully expected Jesus to return in his time and only near
the end when he got old did he wake up and smell the coffee.. Of course he had
also taught others to not marry, not date and send it in so he brewed his own
scoffers as did they all. Paul exited the scene in classic
"I" "me" and "my" style with his "I
have fought the good fight, I have kept the faith..therefore there is laid up
for ME......which I shall receive." Etc. I'm not sure Paul
actually kept the faith. He kept his faith and his version of that faith
but it seems "All those in Asia have turned aside from me..." had
another version in mind. I bet Paul called them scoffers.
It is not scoffing to notice something does not happen as
presented. Ron Weinland was never subtle in his views of who he thought
he was and the message he thought he had to bring. Dave Pack is not
subtle in this either nor is Gerald Flurry. They'd draw the scoffer out
of most critically thinking human beings. What they say is simply
foolishness and fantasy made up in their heads. Flurry sees himself in
Malachi, Pack in Haggai and Weinland in Revelation . Ron
evidently still doesn't see himself in prison but I am sure he thinks this is
the time for his prison epistles just like the Apostle Paul whose teachings he
rarely taught or even understands.
II Peter was written by someone to address the now 2000 year old
problem of "where is this Second Coming that YOU say is
SOON?" How soon is soon to you guys. What kinda
soon are we talking about here because I am actually giving a lot to you
guys for "a short work," as you quote to us often and have put
relationships on hold because of your "3-5 years, maybe 10, 15 at
the most, 25 max..." carrot dangling.
Let's take a quick look at II Peter and see whose right.
Scoffers or Apostles? Let's also notice that there is truly nothing
new under the sun when it comes to making an apologetic for the obvious.
The write of II Peter is going to sound awfully familiar to the WCG experience.
II Peter 3:1 This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.
In other words, you still should listen to us on these matters.
The author does not bother to tell them which commandment "of the
Lord" he is thinking of but whatever it was it was really their local
Apostles who will interpret for them. It sounds to me like a little too
much critical and not so cooperative thinking was going on and there had to be
a lid slammed down on it before the pot boiled over.
3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.”
This is the first time mockers and scoffers make their way onto
the scenes . Too much time had passed since Jesus ascended and promised
to come back. A good 50 years at least. John Kennedy died 50
years ago to give you some context. Now this "Peter" connects
the idea of scoffing and mocking to lust. Isn't that always the
case. "The reason you want to mock and scoff or believe in good
science done well is because you want to disobey God and do what you want to
do." Noooooo... there is no connection between these two
concepts but it's nice to assign some devious motive to their simple
observation that soon does not really seem to be soon. It makes the
Apostle feel better probably to not think they are just making a correct
observation. The comment in verse 4 is a 100% true statement.
People were dying who were sold on the idea that they would only be changed in
a moment and a twinkling of an eye and not see death as other men. It was
messing them up. Whatever signs that generation used to prove to
themselves they were in the last times were just going on and on. The
Romans wouldn't get lost, seemed more powerful than ever and you can't even get
near Jerusalem anymore if you're a Jew.
5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But the present heavens and earth by His word are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
When and Apostle says "they maintain" he really
means "they stubbornly hold on to this observation..."
This shows he was up against some deadly serious observations and criticism for
all the soon and shortly stuff of the past few decades. And of
course, anyone with a clear mind and eyes to see would too. Whatever
"soon" and "shortly" meant to the scoffers, it was
obviously not the same kind of "soon" and "shortly' of the
ministry, as we shall see. Sound familiar?
God is giving us more time
The wisdom of man is
foolishness with God
There is a way
that seeeeeeems right to a man....but it ends in death
My ways are not your
ways....
and in this case...
God does not count time
like you do and days are not really days stupid...
Frankly, I don't understand the writers point in what he says
"escapes their notice..." His water/fire story
leads nowhere that I can tell. Of course the earth was not born out of
water in reality. Water came later in the birth of the earth but that's
science and not theology. Since in the Noah story God promises no more
big water events, he goes on to say it will be by fire but again, is not any
answer to the question of "my Lord delays his coming."
I can't resist saying to this one day is as a thousand years and a
thousand years as a day defense. And you know this? Is this just
what you make up when the Apostle also knows the coming is delayed but he can't
admit it? Did he ever season his previous time is short and Jesus is
coming soon statements with this little bit of made up apologetic. No he
did not because he didn't need it then when he thought soon was still soon in
real time. But now we go into spirit time and magical thinking.
Next comes the double speak that "the Lord is not slow in the way humans
think of slow," when in fact this is classic slow and not soon or shortly
either. I suppose he could have said that "Soon is not soon as you
think of it as soon and shortly is a longer shortly than men come up
with." No matter, the Deity can't lose so the apologetic has to be
woven for the brethren. We have seen Ron Weinland do a lot of re weaving
of predictions along the way when it was obvious he was wrong wrong
wrong.. I can still hear him chiding the church for
misunderstanding what he said and they did not listen. It was
"spiiiiirrrrritual !...stupid." Actually this is what the
author of Peter is doing as well. Same ploy and same inability to just
say that he was wrong. But he will trade "soon" and
"shortly" for another word that is just as good as motivator to not
scoff or mock.
We also see the author of Peter uses the same "God is giving
us more time," excuse and again something that was never brought up about
God wanting all to be saved etc...until he had to make an excuse for God and
the slowness of soon and shortly. I'm surprised the author did not say
that God was giving "you brethren" more time to get your wicked act
together and "make it into the kingdom."
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
So now the Second Coming is not soon or shortly, it is going to be
sneaky and you better watch out, you better not cry, you better not pout ,
I'm telling you why....Jesus Christ is coming suddenly. The thief might
come neither soon or shortly, but he comes sneaky and suddenly. Brilliant
move! Suddenly is like soon or shortly but unknowable. Great
compromise of the error! Members and those who notice that none of
what the ministry predicts comes true are turned into scoffers and
mockers and the ministry gets to reset and redefine the clock.
Alas the heavens have not passed in 2000 years nor the elements
destroyed with intense heat. All these people are dust and the beat goes
on.
So, those who notice that neither Church , Pastor or even Bible
predictions came true in any sense humans would think they would is not
scoffing or mocking. It is noticing the obvious and speaking up.
Ministers and churches get scoffed at and mocked when they keep up the charade,
change the rules as they go and blame the listeners for not listening. We
scoff at those who take offices and titles unending to themselves and preach
themselves way too much.
The author of Peter simply could not bring himself to say "I
don't know," or "We were wrong." Modern day seers
would choke on those words I expect. He had to mystify and redefine the
words and then blame those who noticed calling them scoffers and
mockers. And so it still is today.
No....those who notice what the ministers, apostles, witnesses ,
watchers and non prophets say which is either silly, stupid or insane are not
in one bit of trouble with the Deity. They don't scoff or mock. Ok
well they do but it is the church and the leaders that provide the ammo.
We just notice it....I suppose it could be viewed as actively working out one's
own salvation and not being snookered.
contact Dennis at: denniscdiehl@AOL.com
------------------------------------
If I Ever Go Off Into Strange or
Weird Ideas...
"I want to make a statement about...me...now, if I became
deceived, I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling
you if I go off into strange ideas, misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me. I want to tell you that
now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't
mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and
Z. Do
you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely
unscriptural conduct, because
if I do I'm gonna paint it
with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? Please remember that,
because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget
it...And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."
David C Pack
December 12, 1998
Actually Dave, I totally
understand what you are saying and just did quote it back to you as
instructed. That time you foresaw has arrived and indeed, you are
uttering both strange and weird things about yourself. If I read all the
letters sent to you by former employees and members correctly, you also have
tendencies to act in unscriptural ways but I am pretty sure you don't see that
side of this coin. What chance is there you will see the trail of tears
you have left for decades when you are struggling to figure out just what
"filthy rags" you, as the fulfillment of Haggai's Joshua the High Priest
might have to remove. The idea that all you can come up with is that you
sinned not leaving the splinters soon enough or not starting your own church
soon enough is...well...a strange and weird idea to say the least
So the time has come to
tell you that your current ideas about just where you fit in the Biblical
scheme of things has come. It is time to tell you, as instructed, that
your ideas about you being foretold in the minor prophet Haggai or Zephaniah is
truly a strange and weird idea. I have to admit, you do follow the A, B,
C and X,Y and Z format in explaining this ridiculous concept as you predicted
so at least thanks for sticking to the format so we could recognize it and call
you out on it as instructed.
First of all, you have
been in "rebellion" for as long as I have known you. Now I
understand one man's rebellion is another man's faithfulness, but let's face
it...you have never done well working for anyone that told you what to
do. Men such as yourself simply can't take instructions, correction or
advice. I have chatted with a few of your close staff who confirm that
you taking advice is not a strong point. It tends to enrage you. I
recall your sojourn in New York City where you were sent to work under
Mr.___________ as your one last chance to get your team player skills
together. I asked Mr. _________ how you were doing working for and with
others but not in charge and not having the final say. He said you were
doing fine for now and what you needed to do to get through it, but when you
were ever back on your own you'd fall back into all that you have since fallen
back into. Now that man was a Prophet for sure. He said,
"People don't change much." And this is true. Some get worse.
The idea that you are
foretold in the scriptures some 2500 years after the fact is simply weird and
strange. It is also a lie. You are truly the master of making a scripture
mean what it never meant. From declaring that "houses" in
Haggai is really splinters to your nutcase idea that all the tithes of the
splinters need to flow unto you because it belongs to you is simply
insane. Ok, I mean strange and weird to stick to your terminology and
what we had to look out for in you. You even have the amount
calculated I imagine because you know as well as I do that it has never been
about the numbers with you , but it really is. Remember redrawing church
boundries so you could have a larger congregation without actually having new
folk come along? I do. The minister next door only found out when
the member showed him the letter telling him he has been switched to your
congregation . Kinda strange and weird even back then.
But back to the current
strange and weird ideas. It was kinda neat to see how you explained that
HWA knew he was at first a type of Zerubbabel (which means 'born of
confusion" btw) and in the next paragraph he knew he was Zerubbabel and
not just any type, and finally ended up not knowing who Joshua the High Priest
would be. Funny, I recall it being plainly GTA according the HWA when he
was hoping Ted would get rid of his filthy rags and return to his duties in the
church. Gerald Waterhouse was real big on GTA and the filthy rag
theory. So in a very short time, you evolved HWA's thinking back then to
match and pave the way for you now. Strange and weird huh?
The more bad news is that HWA also was never spoken of in any scripture but I
know you'd not believe such a thing. I mean what's the chance that out of
billions, it is YOU? I hesitate to say that since Haggai was never
written for much into the future as you think. Prophets, real or
imagined, sane or insane do not write about events outside their perceived
lifetimes. What good would that be? I could go back to the Book of
Lamentations and see my entire experience with WCG foretold and how I would
evolve and endeavor to help the brain dead in the COGs wake up a bit but I
don't have the energy. Jeremiah lived a rather melancholy life so it
would be stretching his intent I think.
Loved your phrase,
""I want to make a statement about...me..." Making
statements about you has never been difficult . Once you see yourself in
the Bible how can it be any different?. Of the 24 times the Apostle Paul
is referred to as an Apostle, he calls himself one 22 of those and Luke, his
side kick, the other 2. Other than that , no one thought so or at least
mentioned it. Kinda like yourself. Kinda like Gerald Flurry with
whom you have much in common. The taking of title in the WCG slivers is just
short of astounding. Where do you guys come from?
"I wanna talk about me!""No other epistle author in the Bible wrote like Paul. This would be true on a number of levels, but one aspect is of particular interest when we are considering how Paul views himself. He had a way of drawing attention to himself with his usage of personal pronouns. When it comes to how often he uses words like, "I", "me", "my", or "mine", the overall rate in his epistles is almost three times that of his next closest rival."
And so it is with yourself. Please don't take any comparison with the Apostle Paul as a compliment from me. Or you don't know me very well on this issue.
Now I am betting you are saying "...it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z." But, we're on to you and this is the very circumstance you said could come up and you told us all just how to react. I am doing you the very favor you begged the brethren to watch out for.
I am just reminding your, so far, brain dead followers that you said it and that you would do everything in your power to convince them you aren't getting into strange and weird ideas. Well, you are and you have and it's time to pony up as they say.
You continued to say concerning youself..." Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it..."
Well...forget it you have and I imagine you really wish we'd all forget it too just as you said. I have to say, this prophecy of how you would be and act when you got all strange and weird was really right on. Since you are incapacitated in memory and bound and determined to see yourself as Joshua the High Priest or whatever as spoken of by the Prophet Haggai, it is our job to keep the balance as yours has completely left you. You can't get upset as you told the brethren to be on the look out for just this kind of deviance from the norm. And so we do.
It is not necessary to go through Haggai with you or anyone else to prove that the Bible does not speak of you, you are not any Joshua the really spoken of High Priest and all your detailed analysis of the book is not really what the book was all about. They don't call it anal--ysis for nothing Dave. You weave a great yarn, but a yarn it is and it won't take long for it to unwind as did the machinations of the not really the Two Witnesses Ron Weinland or the not really "That Prophet" Gerald Flurry. Geez...how many times do the WCG leftovers have to learn this lesson?
I drove through Wadsworth this past week and sincerely thought to stop in and have a chat but I was told you'd call the police and I don't have time for that. I guess you don't want to debate after asking you three times huh?
At any rate, I thought it was time to quote you back to you as you asked for such a time as this. Your foresight and insight into how you would behave in such a case of going weird and strange was very well spoken. I'm proud of you for speaking so plainly before the time of the actual weird and strange beliefs and I am thankful the Internet preserved your prophetic words for so long.
When you recover your senses, you will thank me. We can hug and make up because that which was lost will have been found and your sanity will, like Nebuchadnezzar ,have returned. I hope it does not take seven years but it is what it is and will be what it will be. I'm here for ya when your mind comes back.
In closing, a word about your very last statement. "But I'm not going anywhere." I'm a pretty intuitive guy. I know what people mean between the lines when they write or speak. "But I'm not going anywhere" is meant to calm the troops after such dramatic statements. It is actually a subconscious ploy , whether you know it or not, to get to say all this dramatic "don't follow me if I get weird and strange, but of course I will never get weird or strange," so now you can now actually start getting weird and strange and they won't think it is weird or strange.. After all, you just told them how you would behave and then assured them you'd never actually do that and then you get to do it and they don't get it. Brilliant! It's like the tassels and ribbons that warriors used to put on the ends of the spears. In battle they would wave them around and it was just natural for the human eye to follow the pretty ribbon and tassel as it was waved in their face. Well it was pretty until the actual spear point was shoved into one's chest. Distractions and disclaimers are the tassels and ribbons on the end of a very dangerous spear.
Anyway...I just thought I'd quote you back to you for such a time as this in your thinking. I really don't want to see anyone else get hurt with religion done badly and mental problems being mistaken for spirituality and truth. Was that harsh?
Warm regards
contact Dennis at: denniscdiehl@AOL.com
-------------------------------
If I HAD to Choose a Church
I miss church.
Well not the formal church or the sit for two hours church. I don't miss
the one man show church or the "we only," church. But I do miss
church. Maybe I more miss the coherent and intelligent discussion of all
things theological or being in a place where one can teach and be taught what
the Bible really means, who actually said it and why. I'd like an open
minded church . In all my days growing up in the Presbyterian Church not
once was there any controversy over what the Bible meant or where you went to
church. Not one person got turned over to Satan, wished well and hoped
they repented. No secret groups wanting this or that taught or not taught
lurked at church picnics or in the parking lot. You never lost your good
friends to new truths or the shenanigans of others messing with your
life.
But it would have to be
a church where people are allowed to think and believe as they wish. After all,
beliefs are not necessarily truths. There are some things I'd have to be
able to believe until it either seemed totally true over time or not as true,
just leave me alone. There would have to be room for discussion and disagreement
with no ill will towards others intended. I suppose the members and
ministers would have to be willing to be challenged , questioned and even ill
informed until shown otherwise. I'd have to work on being that
myself. But turning you over to Satan for the destruction of the
flesh would have to be out of bounds.
So, what would be an
ideal church for me. I can't speak for you of course.
On the plus side, if I
had to go with a group, it would be a Sabbatarian one. If you're going to
use the Bible then it doesn't take an Einstein to see that the founding fathers
of the church, which I am pretty sure Gospel Jesus never intended to start in
his story, would be Jewish Christians who saw Jesus as an extension of Judaism
and cleaning it up a bit . I can go with clean and unclean meats but have
never heard much of a real reason why one kind is physically better than the
other. Holy days pointing to this or that possibility seem much more
logical from a Biblical perspective than Solstices and Equinoxes pointing to
the actual origins of Christ-mas and East-er, but I also think Solstices and
Equinoxes are kinda cool since they are the origins of the Pauline/Gentile/What
you got today Sunday church practices. One the other hand, I'd have
to recognize that the Sabbath did not originate with the Hebrews or any God
"resting" (do God's rest?) on the Seventh Day. It is a Hebrew
spin on a Sumerian tale where the God's first rested after they drown the
worker bee humans who made too much noise. Long story.
It would need to be a
group that was heavy on Gospel Jesus, ignoring the failed prophecy of
Revelation Jesus and totally unconnected the Pauline Christ. Gotta pick
one. Can't have all three. Gospel Jesus would never have recognized
Pauline Christ and Peter, James and whole rioting cities evidently did not
either. In short , the perspective of the Apostle Paul on the real meaning , as
if he knew, born of hallucinations in the mind of a man that never once met or
quotes Jesus would have to go.
Christ or Paul?, the Rev. V.A. Holmes-Gore wrote:
"Let
the reader contrast the true Christian standard with that of Paul and he will
see the terrible betrayal of all that the Master taught....For the surest way
to betray a great Teacher is to misrepresent his message....That is what Paul
and his followers did, and because the Church has followed Paul in his error it
has failed lamentably to redeem the world....The teachings given by the blessed
Master Christ, which the disciples John and Peter and James, the brother of the
Master, tried in vain to defend and preserve intact were as utterly opposed to
the Pauline Gospel as the light is opposed to the darkness."
Ernest Renan, in his book Saint Paul,
wrote:
"True Christianity,
which will last forever, comes from the gospel words of Christ not from the
epistles of Paul. The writings of Paul have been a danger and a hidden rock.
the causes of the principal defects of Christian theology."
Rudolf Bultman, one of the most
respected theologians of this century, wrote in his Significance of the
Historical Jesus for the Theology of Paul:
"It is most obvious that
Paul does not appeal to the words of the Lord in support of his....views. when
the essentially Pauline conceptions are considered, it is clear that Paul is
not dependent on Jesus.
Jesus' teaching is -- to all intents and purposes --
irrelevant for Paul."
Those Incredible Christians, Dr.
High Schonfield reports:
"It was not only the
teaching and activities of Paul which made him obnoxious to the Christian
leaders: but their awareness that he set his revelations above their authority
and claimed an intimacy with the mind of Jesus, greater than that of those who
had companied with him on earth and had been chosen by him....It was an
abomination, especially as his ideas were so contrary to what they knew of
Jesus, that he should pose as the embodiment of the Messiah 's will....Paul was
seen as the demon-driven enemy of the Messiah....For the legitimate Church,
Paul was a dangerous and disruptive influence, bent on enlisting a large
following among the Gentiles in order to provide himself with a numerical
superiority with the support of which he could set at defiance the Elders at
Jerusalem. Paul had been the enemy from the beginning. and because he failed in
his former open hostility he had craftily insinuated himself into the fold to
destroy it from within."
I know it is almost
incomprehensible to think of a Christian faith without Paul, but the evidence
of Paul as the author of current gentile Christianity verses the understanding
the real (or imagined) disciples of Jesus had, and no they could not have been
all that oblivious to Jesus meanings. They are said to have spent one
year (Matthew, Mark, Luke) or three (John) with Jesus and Paul is said to have
had a two minute vision only he understood in his head...you
choose. Two minutes is being generous. Paulianity is what we
have today. I am not sure it was what was intended. Long story but
you know how I feel about Paul the Mythmaker and his not so accurate use of the
Old Testament to fuel his views. The ultimate one man show I suppose I
detest so much.
I'd have to find a
church that believed in good science well done not "falsely so
called." That's what an insecure Christian says about science when
the science actually disturbs their world view. The universe really is 14
billion years old and earth is less than nothing in it . Quantum physics
really can inform of the nature of reality and how time and space mingle.
Maybe it is a hologram or perhaps Branes and parallel Universes are real and
just out of reach, but the church can't be ignorant of these things. They
would have to know or at least be very much less rigid on the fact of evolution
and what the word "theory" really means to a scientist as opposed to
a fundamentalist. The fact is that over the last 2000 years, the
"Church" has always had to yield to good science well done and not
the other way around of good theology well done. Actually the two can
never meet.
They would have to lean
heavily towards the understanding that humans too evolved over the last 2.5
million years and more and that modern humans are about 160,000 years old so
far. Neanderthals were successful, but not us, for about 250,000 years
and others before them for 500,000 years. And while dinos "died
out" , I'd like folk to at least admit 200,000,000 years ain't bad.
click to enlarge
It would need to be a
group that understood the difference between mythology and historical
facts. Adam and Eve would have to go and replaced with an understanding of
the real intent and meaning of Genesis 1-3. I will spare you for now as I know
most of you are tired of hearing it! You might not think this all that
important until you think of the misery inflicted on the masses (by the Apostle
Paul and Gentile Church Fathers ) over your stinking rotten selves
due to "Original Sin" and then you might be able to free yourself
from the idea that all humans are rotten and hell bound, no matter,
especially women who caused it all and therefore should shut up in
church. They would have to understand that even human Jesus would not
have known Adam and Eve were not real people in real time or maybe even Moses
or Abraham. It would be a unique church for sure. Most intelligent
Rabbi's today in Judaism would admit these characters occupy a less than sure
place in Jewish history.
We'd have to understand
stories like the sojourn in Egypt and the Exodus are not literally true and
never could be in a dozen different ways and for hundreds of reasons.
Great metaphor maybe, but not history. An understanding of who actually
wrote the Pentateuch and why would help. The battle between Scribes and
Prophets in the OT would also be up for grabs along with "just what the
heck do you mean prophecy fulfilled?"
It would be nice to chat
in church or study about why the Gospels really have no harmony. Who
wrote what and why they aren't really eyewitness accounts. Midrash, and
not a form of Shingles , would have to come up a few times to explain how
Matthew came up with his birth of Jesus story and Luke , who never read it,
came up with his. I like the study of why he used four loose women in the
OT in his genealogy of Jesus before getting to Mary, but that's getting
picky now. "We weren't born of fornication," and
all. A great study on why have a genealogy in the first place
when Jesus real and literal father was God would be fun.
Finally for now, perhaps
at least a tip of the hat to astro-theology as to the ultimate origins of both
Sun Worship and Son Worship. Hot topic for literalists I know but you
just can't get away from it.
Jesus being the central
sun having 12 disciples who surround him and with whom he spends one year not
unlike the real sun that travels in one year through the 12 signs of the zodiac
seems not so far fetched to me. It's the story of all dying godmen plain
and simple. It's a great story and an amazing tribute to the human need
to know what it is all about . The fact that the Gospel story of Jesus
exactly matches the story of the Sun through the one year , one month in each
sign, can't be a coincidence. Or it is the greatest coincidence in
history. As above so below and all that... Understanding that
"lo, I am with you , even unto the end of the age (not world) and Aries
the Lamb (Jesus) dying and the Sun now moving into Pices the Fish (Christian
Church symbol the last 2000 years) is not a coincidence. This is an
amazing story with rich detail from the Bible to support it, but alas, few care
and the rest are afraid of it. "Our God is a consuming
fire....."....The Sun.
Ok, I know there is not
place such as this. Maybe a Unitarian Church but they are off in the
summer. Perhaps the more liberal Episcopal Church would do .
I attended a Catholic Mass in a large church a couple years ago and Sun symbols
were everywhere so maybe that would work.
I actually do miss
church. I miss lives to live and friends to get to know. I miss
helping when help is needed and older people who need encouragement in the last
days of their lives. I miss meaning but I don't miss meanings that don't
mean what they are said to mean. I'm crazy like that. I don't miss
most ministers. I miss teaching but the path this whole experience has
lead to leaves few who want to learn "that bullshit" as I have been
told lol. I know it is hard to give up the Sunday School idea
of the Bible, Jesus and his friends. I still have my perfect attendance
pins and bars for years of Sunday School!
For now I will be content with:
Desiderata
Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there
may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others,
As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others,
even the dull and ignorant; they too have their
story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your career, however humble;
Keep interested in your career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of
time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be critical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be critical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
it is as perennial as
the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the
things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with
imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the
stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams,
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be
happy.
© Max Ehrmann 1927
....but I still miss church.
---------------------
...or anywhere else in the Bible for that matter.
It is hard for me to
personally fathom any current living human being looking into the Old Testament
and , sure enough, seeing themselves spoken of by the prophets. We all
are familiar with the "look back into the Bible" approach and like
millions before us, have been deceived by the ego centric Bible Babblers and
our own desire to believe, do and practice the correct things in the true
church. It takes only the study of reality, history and an open
mind to realize there never was one true Church, ever. The splits over
the who and what of Jesus started before the body started to cool. If you
believe the characters in the New Testament , Peter, James, John and Paul all
spoke the same thing and even tolerated each other at times, you would be
wrong. The men and on occasion, women, who have seen their times and
themselves spoken of in scripture probably runs into the tens of thousands over
the past 2500 years. Mental hospitals are filled with every character you
think of from Adam to Moses, Joshua to Jesus. As I have said before, I
have met 23 of the Two Witnesses of Revelation in my lifetime. Most
in mental hospitals or out on farms.
!00% of them were 100%
wrong 100% of the time to date. Their time will run out as well and then
they can be added to the list. I'll throw good intentioned in there to be
kind, but what kind of a man sees HIMSELF spoken of in the scriptures?
That is simply an amazing study to me in all sorts of aberrant thinking, the
outcome of which gives birth to even more skepticism in the minds of people who
at least can learn from such insanity.
Old Testament Prophets
always speak to their own times. They are trying as best they can to
explain what has happened to their nation. In the case of the Nation
of Israel, the prophets took the opportunity to blame the sins of the people
and rejection by God for it all. Actually the armies of the
surrounding nations were bigger and better. If you have ears to hear,
the "Suffering Servant" of Isaiah was not Jesus of the New
Testament. It was either Israel or Isaiah himself as he viewed his role
in being a "major" prophet in Israel. I realize that showing
New Testament writers used a writing style called Midrash , which is
looking back into the past to explain the confusing present, as the
technique they used to cobbled the New Testament story together, but
that takes a desire to realize things are not as you have been taught.
Try this for starters if
you are interested at all in learning the bigger picture of how the Bible
was constructed and the stories put together.
For example,the Gospel
writer Matthew, puts together the entire birth story of Jesus by seeking out Old
Testament scriptures he can weave a tale into about a birth he actually knew
nothing about. In his "thus it was fulfilled" stories of Jesus,
Matthew misrepresents the original meaning of the Old Testament to make it mean
what he wants it to mean to tell a story. His Virgin Birth story,
taken from Isaiah is an example of this classic cut and
paste method which leaves Matthew open to much criticism and skepticism.
Isaiah 7 has NOTHING to do with Jesus. It had everything to do with Isaiah's
time. ( Luke's story of Jesus birth was totally different and you can see
he NEVER read Matthew's tale before he wrote his.) Matthew is
good at this proof-texting until he gets to misquoting the OT and
having Jesus ride into Jerusalem on two donkeys rather than one. No
problem. The other Gospel writers saw his mistake and corrected it.
That one story alone proves the Gospel stories of Matthew are made up from Old
Testament scriptures and were nothing he actually knew or witnessed. But
hat's another story.
The unknown story of how
Jesus died was well served by Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 neither of which had
anything to do with Jesus at the time nor were ever intended to. But they
were great for mining and Gospel writers did it often. All that came later in
the form of Midrash. If you don't know what Midrash is, you OWE it to yourself
to understand it. You'll never hear it explained in church.
Back to
Prophets. All OT prophets speak to their own times. They
don't speak to times in which none of them will live to see. They may
project hope into the time to come as do and did we all, but they speak to
their own times.
Church of God members
are so used to thinking, "well yeah, that was a type but the fulfillment
is what is happening in my Church and today," that they just can't see the
point. They also don't see that there are many failed OT prophecies and
explain them away with "well, they just haven't happened yet." In
the Church of God, soon, shortly, the time now is, the day is far spent and so
on, do not mean what they mean. They get a 2000 year hiatus before they
mean in this time yet again it is short. "This Generation"
doesn't meant that generation. It means MY CURRENT GENERATION, which it
didn't back then. The mind is a trickster when it comes to making things mean
what one needs them to mean rather than what they actually mean and
meant. Since it didn't happen for them, it must mean us.
Hard facts to accept at
face value:
Jesus was wrong about himself at times and how it would all work out for him and his disciples.Peter, James and John were wrong about it would all work out for them and their communities of believersPaul was terribly wrong about "we who are alive and remain..." and much of the advice that the sincere took literally which disrupted their lives and relationships was also wrong advice.The Book of Revelation, written by Jewish Christian for Jewish Christians in the siege of Jerusalem was wrong about how it all would work out for them. The Romans won and did it in 8 months not three and half years.
Now I know well the need
for us in our time to fall back to "it was a type," but back then, it
was never envisioned to be a type only for the far distant fulfillment.
One must make the leap from their reality to our hope their reality was a mere
type to do that.
Now to the heart of the
matter. Apostle Dave Pack is NOT spoken of in the Minor Prophets.
Nor is That Prophet Gerald Flurry nor was HWA or GTA....EVER. Certainly
Non-Prophet Robert Thiel isn't. (I, however am. I am a scoffer but
only because I am an observer of what does not happen and is not so). I
know what's coming in the Apostle Dave's yet to be explain presentations.
I have reread the these minor prophets and it's obvious what is coming.
Anyone who has any history with WCG can read Haggai and Zachariah and see
exactly what's coming. I can tell you who is going to end up as who in
this upcoming tale weaving and how all the types, fulfillments and
delusions are going to be explained. The actual stories are about Israel
coming back to Jerusalem after the Babylonian Captivity but hey....great stuff
to be manipulated over weeks of wear you out letters and sermons to make it
mean what it never meant and doesn't mean. The stories have lots of room
for the mistaken idea that all the splinters will come back again into one
place, the Restored Church of God and under one leader, Apostle David C
Pack. Nice analogy. Totally bogus. I can't speak to sincerity
of belief or teaching, but I can speak to ignorance.
I no longer feel sorry
for Restored or Philadelphia Church of God hangers on. There is so much
information available to you outside of your small circle and one man shows
that there is no excuse to get hooked into something that simply is not
so. Has the Apostle Pack sought council and advice on his views?
Has there been a multitude of counsel in which lies safety over these ego
centric, "Yes yes!!! The Bible speaks of me right here!"
musings soon to be truths for you? I doubt it. What kind of men
would put their stamp of approval on such malarkey? Has one stood up and
said they don't buy it and been allowed to stay? Doubt it.
So here is what is going
to happen. Like you being convinced "And yes, I am an Apostle,"
which took hours of type, analogy and self promotion before that was
proclaimed, you better hold onto your sore butts again. The wear you down
with more analogies, types and Mr. Armstrong this and that is underway.
You are going to be numbed into acceptance, unless of course you aren't going
to accept it and I advice you not to based on the real meanings, background and
history of those books you will be soaking in. It can sound plausible if
you take any of the Minor Prophets actually leading up to the Apostle
David. But plausible is a slippery slope. Ten thousand religious guru
types could and probably already have used the very same arguments to make the
same erroneous points about their own ministry and mission. Most are dead
now.
A scripture can never
mean what it never meant. You are about to learn the truth of that
statement in spades as you see scripture wrestled into doing just that.
Why do I bother with
this. I honestly can't question anyone's sincerity. I believe Ron
Weinland probably believes his own misguided, misspoken and misinterpreted views
about the Bible and himself. He's paid dearly for his foolishness in
taking people's money to do his work. But i hate ignorance and
manipulation that leads to pain and suffering for yet more sincere people who
trust too much, study outside the box too little and believe everything one
human being over them tells them. How many times do we have to learn that
lesson?
I have known Mr. Dave
Pack since he was 20 years old. Winning is everything and it actually is
all about the numbers.
I personally
believe that some of the OT prophet types were probably mentally
ill and what today we call schizophrenia , temporal lobe epilepsy
and a host of other human conditions , they called
"inspired." Strange people and behaviors in history could
easily be mistaken for spirituality then, but illness today. I believe
with all my heart that a man with mental illness can hide much more easily in a
church setting than in a corporate setting. Visions and interpretations
of scripture can be seen more as obedience and spirituality rather than the
actual mental disorder they may be. Dictators who would be either highly
promoted in the corporate world (by those like them) or cast out can hide
better in ministry as their quirky and maddening ways can be seen as some kind
of weird Bible strength. "Well Ezekiel cooked food with
his own dung laid siege to a frying pan, so I'm just like Ezekiel," really
doesn't work well today. Making oneself correct by analogy is not the
same as actually being correct.
So, whatever the Apostle
Dave presents will be well presented. It will be done meticulously over
many weeks and finally hours. And it will be wrong. The Minor
Prophets never spoke of Herbert Armstrong no matter what he or Gerald
Waterhouse speculated about. Dave is only an Apostle because he has
claimed he is. NO ONE ELSE outside of himself thinks that is so. Any new titles
such as "And yes brethren, I am Joshua," is just silly. The
Minor Prophets are not speaking to or laying any groundwork for the Apostle
Dave to appropriate to himself and use yet again to promote himself as special
and his sliver as the one true church on earth.
That is just nuts and I
hope you will do your homework well before you end up a few years from now
writing about your incredible and painful experience as I do today about
my own. In my view, those who become most skeptical had once
been the most sincere. If you are going to have an experience you may as
well share the lessons learned. Experience is not only the best teacher,
it is the only one. Everything else is hearsay. I just don't like seeing
others get hurt in the process of outgrowing foolish beliefs and being
discouraged from being yourself in this life. You do not have to ever
filter your life, thoughts or beliefs through another human being or see the
world only through their eyes. History warns us of that mistake.
IMHO
=====================
Which One Should You Trust When You Have Doubts?
Your Brain...
Or Your Stomach?
A Short Lesson in Why We Say " I Can't Stomach This
Anymore."
When it comes to making
decisions to do or not do, to be or not be, to believe or not believe or not
believe, there is just one question you need to ask. "Is the truth
what my head is telling me or is the truth what my stomach is telling
me?" I have said this before and it is not an original view of
my own, but the answer is your stomach is telling you the truth. Your
head is lying to you.
Let's
just stick to
church issues and look back on how we thought vs how we felt in the
past, any number of times, when whoever was telling us how it all is,
how we must
be, what must happen, when it would happen or how God is doing this or
that was
declaring it to us.
Think of all the
booklets you read that were the be all and end all on the chosen topic.
Go back when you heard HWA make grand pronouncements about what the Bible said
or how it applied to WCG and himself. What did you think in your head and
what did you feel in your stomach? Which was correct? Think of
being told how we were this or that era and others weren't. Think of Petra and
make up. Think of how you thought vs how you felt when someone announced
that healing was a James 5:14 thing and not a medical thing? What did
your head tell you and what did your stomach tell you? What told you the
truth when Gerald Waterhouse spent three or four hours telling you wild and
speculative things about everything from who HWA was in the vast Universe and
how we'd flee the tribulation and such. What did your head tell you and
what did your stomach tell you.
I remember vividly when
I ask GW what he would think or do when HWA died. He said, "He'd
believe it after three days and three nights." My head did not even
enter into the discussion. I almost barfed.
In hind site on most of
these issues, I guarantee you, you argued in your head, the left side with the
right side to come up with the same beliefs that these men were pushing at you,
but in your stomach I well imagine such thoughts as...
This scares me
This is stupid
Where does he get this stuff?
That is only ONE way to view that and it makes me nervous
I don't think that is correct
That's ridiculous
This frightens me
Can you wrap it up so we can go home now?
He should not say that
People should not give that much to him
He should not tell people to sell their homes for him
I can't send that much in
etc....
When your head tells you one thing and your stomach tells you
something else, your stomach is telling you the truth. Your brain is
lying to you.
In years past and now
with perfect hindsight, I sat through many a "Refresher Program"
which was frankly exhausting for the most part. Some topics were
interesting, some mind numbing boring and not well prepared. I recall one
evangelist thinking a good marriage "refresher" would be to cover
EVERY scripture relating to marriage from Genesis to Revelation both physical
and spiritual. I left after about an hour by never coming back after a
potty break with my head saying, "now you should go back" and my
stomach saying "This is insane, boring and the man must have just got up
this morning and grabbed his Nave's Topical Bible. I can't stomach
this. And I didn't.
I recall one full
session by the now current President of UCG telling us all how to use 3x5 cards
and how to arrange them in the box on this or that topic ...I forget. My
head said maybe the lecture would get better and my stomach said get out and go
to the Rock and Mineral Show in Long Beach. The stomach was
right!!! Great show!
I recall sitting through
a seminar by the new Lawyer for the Church, Bernie Schnippert with my
head and stomach both telling me this is the most arrogant and talking down
lecture I have ever heard. Left that one too at potty time.
The lectures on divorce
and remarriage made both my head and stomach feel united during the times of
the Systematic Theology Project when we could finally get over thinking one
could decide if people were bound or not bound and all the associated insanity
that went with that. By a "miracle" everything that came up in
the early years of my ministry the current couple and marriage was ok with
God. :) My stomach simply would not listen to my head even then and
I have no regrets on that topic. My stomach ruled as well on such topics
as healing, make up and whether missing a Sabbath service because you had to go
to a trade show or get fired also over ruled my head . For that, and the
common sense that my dad had , I am eternally thankful. Growing up
Presbyterian and not WCG also helped as did never pastoring in a metro area
around the prying eyes and ears of other ministers.
So back to today in
the schism, split, splinter, slivers and sawdust world of the Wild World
Churches of God. Over the past couple of years we have all been exposed
to more and more head/stomach statements by the likes of Gerald Flurry that
Prophet, Dave Pack that Apostle, Bob Thiel that Non-Prophet and lesser but
nonetheless boisterous Church of God leader wanna be's.
Are you finding yourself
arguing in our head over their very Biblical sounding reasonings or feeling the
churn of your emotions manifested in your stomach telling you all is not
well? Remember, the emotions are the body's reaction to the
mind. If the mind spins it's tale of "believe this and don't
question it," while at the same time your emotions and stomach are the
still small voice saying, "watch out," or this is
"BS" learn to go with your stomach if you are ever going find personal
peace and truth.
Very frankly, none of
these men have a market on how it all is. No one does. But this talk
and push for your unchallenged belief in all they say is a
very dangerous and bad mental habit. Just as we only
experience a very small sliver of the light and sound frequencies, lest we go
nuts with it all, so no man has a corner on the truth. All there is to
know we do not know. All there is to see we do not see. And all there is
to hear we do not hear because of the limits our five senses put us under.
These men spin tales about themselves and their ego promotes their minds
to say amazingly stupid, arrogant and simply untrue things. Minds that
tolerate even listening then start to argue with itself to either believe or not
believe can be a tough habit to break. In the COGs, if you believe you
stay. If you don't believe you must go. Getting into the Restored Church
of God requires an obstacle course of requirements by the time you get to
church. Head or stomach? Jesus said, the yoke was easy and
the burden was light. Dave says the yoke is a yoke and it's ain't
easy. Head or stomach?
I realize there is a
habit of arguing with oneself and others while desperately wanting to
believe what one is hearing and that even letting the stomach tell its truth is
not even experienced. The mind/brain can simply not allow you to feel
anymore truth or to question what you are hearing. That is a very
dangerous shut off of common sense and reality.
I don't know what phoney
and cobbled together prophecy Dave Pack has up his sleeve, but I can guarantee
you it is bogus, made up, self serving and plainly a misuse of scripture.
If presented to any number of trained theologians who know their stuff, Dave's
views would collapse in hoots and howls of scorn and correct views of
scripture. COG leaders have a bad habit of making the scriptures
mean what they never meant to promote their own agendas. Pathetic
behavior. I have heard that some of what Dave has in store relates to "Joshua"
and that some kind of proof of his perfect rightness will take the form of
other COG types dying. I don't know. Dave can't keep his church as
sealed as he thinks it is. Some people who have stomach reactions instead
of just head ones can't stomach it even in his own congregations.
I write this to ask you
to rekindle your sensitivities to the difference between what your head argues
you through when these various types pontificate about themselves and their
views and what is going on your stomach.
If your head tells you yes and your stomach tells you know, your
stomach is telling you the truth. The head is lying to you.
Just endeavoring to be helpful. No sense wasting my story and the
hind sight reviewing my own mind/stomach reactions over the years and how they
actually turned out. The stomach was right.....
Amen....
========================
"This Will Be Like
Nothing I Have Ever Quite Taught This Way Before...."
The Bewildered Apostle
asks:
" Why do no
other leaders understand ANY of the awesome and incredibly detailed prophecy
that I am about to present—the what, when, where and how this reunification
will occur?"
Because you're making it up?
Because they have a strong feeling it is just cleverly hidden
proof-texting
that always comes back and points to Dave Pack?
Because you are not a likeable person in real life?
Because they have read the experiences of others
and their shelf
life with you seems limited?
Because the few who left one COG to align themselves with your
COG
seem to disappear into the void after they confess you?
Because you are arrogant in your presentation and demeanor?
Because you use the word "awesome" to often?
Because you have said three of them will die all on the same day
and that will prove you to be awesome?
Because working with and for you may increase
their Rolaids budget
too much?
Because working with and for you may get between them
and their
meager savings?
Because saying "yes sir, whatever you say sir,"
makes
them feel like shit not actually agreeing with you?
Because when their wives say,
"You gonna let that guy tell
you everything to do, think and believe?"
and it will make them feel
emasculated and weak?
Because they think you just make it up as you go?
...oh sorry,
already said that.
Because like your incredibly detailed sermon on
"And Yes
Brethren, I am an Apostle"
will make their asses sore listening 4 hours to
the incredible details
and not actually see how those incredible details are
connected in reality?
Because you love the kind of member and minister that says,
"whatever you say" and they don't?
Because you are one of the most arrogant human beings ever
not
actually called to be "the leader" they have ever read or met?
Because you have left a trail of tears and drama behind every
place
you have ever been or landed?
Because it really is all about the numbers?
Because they know they would have to
check their own brains at
your door?
Because they have already learned that fair speeches
with
conviction and pizzaz do not truth make?
More Apostolic Opinage:
"So obviously, for God’s people to be together, ALL organizations
but ONE must “go away,” meaning everyone must leave them to enter that ONE
organization—the ONE Church that Christ built. Continue thinking at the most
basic level. EVERY splinter leader would support this, but of course only if HE
led that one organization."
Because when you say, "think at the most basic level,"
as you do,
they know you mean,
"Come on simpletons not as wise as me, this
is not rocket science."?
Because they are pretty sure you are the one who will
come out on
top as the leader and that is a no-show?
Because when you say "every splinter leader would support
this
...if HE lead that one organization,"
really means,
"They won't
come to ME as the leader of Christ's one true church."?
Because, as far as they and I remember,
you never could work for
anyone very long in your life
before it all blew up and it seems you
aren't happy,
or ever have been unless you run everything
and get the
credit for the awesomeness of it all?
The Awesome Apostle
thrills with:
"Next Friday I will start bringing
the scriptural details of the prophecy revealing that all of God’s people will soon be back together. In time this
will include exactly HOW and WHEN this will occur. The first elements of this
“explaining” process will take three or four Friday announcements."
Perhaps they fear "the scriptural details of THE PROPHECY,
will be a mish-mash of long winded explanations, analogies,
types and bullshit
badly woven together into a out of date garment?
Perhaps they understand you have mastered the art of making
non-prophecy
mean what it never meant and prophecy 'so called'
apply to you when
of course it does not?
Perhaps they are concerned yet another "HOW" and
"WHEN"
is just more not really that way or now yet ?
Because some even realize you are not actually a trained
theologian
but rather a spiffy Bible Reader who doesn't even know the context
of
"Line upon line, line upon line, here a little , there a little,"
which is NOT a formula for how to study the Bible?
(Hint: God is mocking with baby talk what the priests
say and do in
their drunken state.)
Because they don't want to be brought back together
under your
leadership in the first place?
Because some think you will drag this out to August when ...well
you know?
The Apostle predicts our
reactions:
"The announcements of coming weeks and months will shock you
beyond imagination!"
But what if they are already burned out on the overarching,
awesome, incredible and amazing past stuff
you proclaimed and can't get it up
for more?
What if they can imagine more than you can imagine they can
imagine?
What if they wonder if you know all the announcements already
why
not get to the point and save them some gas money?
What if after all this all most can come up with is
"Man,
this is a bunch of bull shit it I ever heard it."?
What if they decide they have been too hard on their pastors and
leaders
after meeting you and go back to them apologizing
for being too
judgmental and unhelpful but grateful to God
they don't lead like you do or
adopt so many titles as you need?
What if United and Living actually united and came alive?
What if being "shocked" is getting old and in hind
sight,
not all that shocking actually?
The Apostle Rejoices
Over:
" Repentant ministers and many faithful splinter employees will
carry on,
serving solely in God’s Church."
What if ministers won't sign your terms of repentance forms?
What if faithful splinployees won't sign
your terms of repentance
forms?
What if repentant ministers figure out no one who ever repented
into RCG
ever got to speak or teach again publicly as far as we can tell.
Did Dale Schurter die?
What if you can't find enough repentant splinployees to mow the
grass,
ride in the electric carts you like so much
or polish your statue?
What if a repentant minister or fake board member
finally wakes up
someday soon and says,
"Hell no you don't need a corporate Jet!"?
What if some repentant splinployee or treasurer
advises Whitman
Chocolates instead of Steuben???
And Finally Brethren:
"Make no mistake. The last three paragraphs
are TRUE!
Read them again, this time more carefully."
So you think we're too stupid to get it the first
time?
(You'll have to give these next awesome sermons
over a few times so we get it.)
What if we really don't want to make a mistake
either
so coming back to you makes no sense?
What if the way you spin the Old Testament in the
coming weeks
and proof text an idea you already accept
as true turns out to not
really be true?
What if we share tapes of your sermons with other
theologians
and get some input from them?
I guess we covered the arrogant part already...
I kinda
like these observations, still valid today about questionable Apostles, in this
case the Apostle Paul but don't take these as compliments.
Bishop John S. Spong (Episcopal Bishop of Newark)
"Paul's words are not the Words of God. They are the words of Paul- a vast difference."
Carl Jung (Psychologist)
"Paul hardly ever allows the real Jesus of Nazareth to get a word in."
Albert Schweitzer
(Insert Apostle Dave for "he" and "Paul")
"Where possible he (Paul) avoids quoting the teaching of Jesus, in fact even mentioning it. If we had to rely on Paul, we should not know that Jesus taught in parables, had delivered the sermon on the mount, and had taught His disciples the 'Our Father.' Even where they are specially relevant, Paul passes over the words of the Lord."David Hume
"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities"
Because we're just gonna bet you have
not bounced any
of your prophetic ideas
of your prophetic ideas
off real men (or
anyone) who could really stand up and say,
"that's the biggest load
of BS I have ever heard.
That's not what those scriptures are meant to
mean.
Have you considered a counselor"?
---------------------------
Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden.
Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl.
Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.
In the same way, let your light shine before others,
that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and
vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for
yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy,
and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is,
there your heart will be also.
The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.
Greet all God’s people in Christ Jesus. The brothers and sisters who are with me send greetings. All God’s people here send you greetings, especially those who belong to Caesar’s household.
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen
denniscdiehl@AOL.com
Restored Church of God
Article Recalled As Forgery.....
Apostle thunders..."Anyone who knows my writings would know it was a fake.This in no way reflects my style, thinking or message to the Churches of God.Pure fantasy."
"Announced earlier, the most important and conclusive article
I have written to the Worldwide Church of God splinters has been posted! I
promise this will be the single most crucial article you will ever
read. If you do not read it all, it will be the worst decision you have made since
God called you. Believe this!"
Apostle David C Pack Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden.
Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl.
Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.
In the same way, let your light shine before others,
that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.
Greet all God’s people in Christ Jesus. The brothers and sisters who are with me send greetings. All God’s people here send you greetings, especially those who belong to Caesar’s household.
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen
denniscdiehl@AOL.com
==========================
Jesus: "Terminations, Resignations,
Disabilities, Defections and Death Will Soon Be Rampant among The
Priesthood, Pharisees, Sadducees, Buttusees,
Jews of Jerusalem and Romans.
Jews of Jerusalem and Romans.
Soon They Will All Come to ME!"
I'm pretty sure we'd all
barf had any Jesus actually said this and had it jotted down for all times to
come. We'd also be able to look back and see that it didn't exactly work
out as Jesus pre-dicted or pre-spoke.
The Church of God
experience from WCG days up to today is like a 12 ring circus. Each act
has it's own barker or ring master. Each pipes to the audience for attention
and what a noise it all is. Each beckoning for the spot lights to be
shined on them and demanding not to be left in the dark while they vie for the
attention their acts so badly need. And acts the are. From clowns and
poodles to Tigers and Elephants, each act attracts it's own crowd and
applause. Some more than others of course. Many flit back and forth
between rings following wherever the spotlight takes them for a little bit of
all of it.
The title wars are truly
amazing. We have "That Ring Master," and
"Watcher Ringmaster's" There are Apostolic Ringmasters
along with Presiding ones. I'm sure some where in there are Zurubbabelian
Ringmasters and Joshua Ring Masters. It's all quite amusing,
however pathetic. After all, it's just a circus. Or to
paraphrase the late Bill Hicks...
"The (Churches of God are) like a ride at an amusement park. It goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it’s very brightly coloured and it’s very loud and it’s fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question: Is this real, or is this just a ride? And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say, “Hey – don’t worry, don’t be afraid, ever, because, this is just a ride…” But we always (disfellowship, mark and marginalize )those good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok. (Ted kicked out, Herbert Dies, Tkach and Co is in, Jesus tricks us, United is divided, Church of Brotherly Love spews hate, Global goes micro, Living is dying, Restored brings back all the past mistakes, Splinters fall to slivers and Non-Prophets embarrass them all . But it doesn’t matter because: It’s just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It’s only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to (stay only for the paycheck, leave because no one listens to you, threaten all those who oppose you with all the above in the title. Follow "that" and now yet another "this" non-prophet.) The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one. Here’s what we can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money that we spend on (tithes and offerings) each year and instead spend it on (caring for your family, saving for your children's education, take time off for yourselves and go where you want to go instead of where you are told to go. Buy yourself some real books on theology and after you read them, tell your circus master you did it. Learn to say "no" and "I don't see it that way. Notice for once you don't care for the show and act and you are not a trained poodle or monkey.) and forever live in peace."
Back to spirituality, which is a concept that seems to escape the Religionist COGs and most Fundamentalists, and that inner spirituality that cannot be controlled by others and cannot possible adhere to the false idea that "we must all speak the same thing."
Some definitions:
· Religion is an institution established by man for various reasons. Exert control, instill morality, stroke egos, or whatever it does. Organized, structured religions all but remove god from the equation. You confess your sins to a clergy member, go to elaborate churches to worship, told what to pray and when to pray it. All those factors remove you from god.
· Spirituality is born in a person and develops in the person. It may be kick started by a religion, or it may be kick started by a revelation. Spirituality extends to all facets of a person’s life. Spirituality is chosen while religion is often times forced. Being spiritual to me is more important and better than being religious.
· True spirituality is something that is found deep within oneself. It is your way of loving, accepting and relating to the world and people around you. It cannot be found in a church or by believing in a certain way.
Consider the following in favor of the spiritual path:
· There is not one religion, but hundreds (This is a tough one for COG One True Churchers. They have to see it is wrong already amongst themselves with 600 other One True Churches but that's what religion blinds in most.)
· There is only one type of spirituality. (Meaning it is an inside job and not that which others pour into your head with demands and expectations of compliance)
· Religion is for those who want to continue rituals and the formality (Or feel they must to be the True Church)
· Spirituality is for those who want to reach the Spiritual Ascent without dogmas
· Religion is for those who are asleep
· Spirituality is for those who are awake
· Religion is for those that require guidance from others (The "Follow Me" of COG)
· Spirituality is for those that lend ears to their inner voice
· Religion has a dogmatic and unquestionable assembly of rules that need to be followed without question (Religion is a dog thing. Obedience and reward)
· Spirituality invites you to reason it all, to question it all and to decide your actions and assume the consequences (Spirituality is a cat thing...I'll take you view under consideration.)
· Religion threatens and terrifies
· Spirituality gives you inner peace
· Religion speaks of sin and of fault (and prophecy and tithing and building and doing)
· Spirituality encourages "living in the present" and not to feel remorse for which has already passed - Lift your spirit and learn from errors (Being not doing.)
· Religion represses humanity, and returns us to a false paradigm (Seeing the world through the eyes of the one who thinks he knows more than you ever can.)
· Spirituality transcends it all and makes you true to yourself (Being one's self is important and a God given expectation for you to live your Story, not someone else's.)
· Religion is instilled from childhood, like the soup you do not you want to take
· Spirituality is the food that you you seek, that satisfies you and is pleasant to the senses
· Religion is not God
· Spirituality is infinite consciousness and all that is - It is God
· Religion invents
· Spirituality discovers/Religion denies and covers up
· Religion does not investigate and does not question
· Spirituality questions everything
· Religion is based on humanity, an organization with rules
· Spirituality is DIVINE, WITHOUT rules
· Religion is cause for division
· Spirituality is cause for union
· Religion seeks you so that you create
· Spirituality causes you to seek
· Religion continues the teachings of a sacred book
· Spirituality seeks the sacredness in all the books
· Religion is fed fear
· Spirituality is fed confidence
· Religion lives you in your thoughts
· Spirituality lives in your conscience
· Religion is in charge of the "to do"
· Spirituality is in charge of the "to BE"
· Religion is a dialectic
· Spirituality is logic
· Religion feeds the ego
· Spirituality makes you transcend
· Religion makes you renounce yourself to the world
· Spirituality makes you live with God, not to renounce him
· Religion is adoration
· Spirituality is meditation
· Religion is to continue adapting to the psychology of a template
· Spirituality is individuality.
· Religion dreams of glory and paradise
· Spirituality makes you live it here and now
· Religion lives in the past and in the future
· Spirituality lives in the present, in the here and now
· Religion lives in the confinement of your memory
· Spirituality is LIBERTY in AWARENESS.
· Religion believes in the eternal life
· Spirituality makes you conscious of all that is
· Religion gives you promises for the after-life (or that which is always just around the corner, soon, any time now, just over the hill...send it in.)
· Spirituality gives you the light to find God in your inner self, in this life, in the present, in the here and the now…
I hope many COG folk find Dave Pack's negative projection of his
own inner world and self view disgusting, arrogant, discouraging as a way of
being in religion and self serving. Dave can say "it's not about the
numbers," all he wishes but it is always about the numbers, small as they
might actually be.
I have asked Dave to publicly talk religion, theology, Bible and
the COGs with me now three times. I never ask that because I thought he
ever would. Of course he won't. Dave Pack is very intimidating when one
is under his "care," but outside of that...not so much. Big
fish in a 10 gallon tank. Scares all the fish in that tank to death of
course, and life in that small tank goes better when the little fish feed the
big one, but out in the ocean of real fish that are bigger, faster, smarter and
more evolved to do what fish in the ocean do...not so much either.
Anyway, personally I resent the threats Dave uses hoping against
hope that what seem as naturally occurring events in the other COG''s are
somehow being prophesied by himself. What Dave is doing is not
predicting, he is observing and anyone can see what he sees if that's what
interests you. Bob Thiel does the same thing. He reads lots of news
and like a reporter, picks out things that might happen if A and B lead to
C. Hardly the stuff of Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel, who also got it
wrong quite often themselves.
Dave Pack noted a few years ago that all who oppose him tend to
die. Personally I have noticed that older people tend to die, but maybe
that is just me. He interprets life events in others as somehow connected to
opposing him. About as egocentric as it gets. While he may think
real life works that way, he speaks BS. If I or those that don't agree
with him and aren't unafraid to point out his foibles and religious yet without
any spiritual content threats died tomorrow, he'd announce it as yet another
"proof" of his great insight and true work. It would be
BS, but he knows how to use circumstances to draw erroneous conclusions that
serve, supply and feed the most overarching work on earth. He did not invent
this approach. He may even do it subconsciously, but I have my doubts
about that disconnect. Pat Robertson and Benny Hinn are masters of false
implications as are many who seek the time, money and adoration of
others.
Personally my hope that few if any, no matter the difficulties in
other COGs will buy the expensive ticket price to Dave's One Ring
Circus. But the pressure is on. Bills have to be paid and numbers
have to be brought in to keep the show on the road. It's what a great Circus
Master does....But when it is all said and done, it is just a story...just a
ride.
======================
What's Missing From This
Blog?
Someone finally asked me a question I
have asked myself for years now and I believe it is time for a discussion on
the one topic that NEVER comes up with respect to this entire WCG/CGI
experience. I was told personally that it was a miracle that God
and Jesus performed in the Church. This by a man who I personally
think would do whatever the church told him to retain his status and
retirement, but that is just my view. I responded by asking him if
God and Jesus were tricksters then after decades of praying to that same God
and Jesus asking for them to "bless the work," "help me be the kind of
minister I need to be," "Please inspire....", and so on? No
response. I told him it was no miracle but rather reckless change
by men who were accountable to only themselves. No
response.
This won't take long.
Fill in the blank...
Herbert W Armstrong, Garner Ted
Armstrong, (WCG) Roderick C Meredith (GCG,LCG),_______________,
_____________, (___) Gerald Flurry (PCG), Robin Webber (UCG), David C
Pack (RCG), and a whole bunch of others who don't matter at this point.
Let me give you a hint or two,
though I know you know...
These men got a pass for their part
in all the WCG upheaval and chaos
These men were related, something
which WCG never seemed to learn the lesson of the previous two
men.
The men got a pass for their part
in all the WCG upheaval and chaos
These men lied, at least to me,
100% of the time to 100% of the questions I asked them about what was
up.
These men got a pass for their part
in all the WCG upheaval and chaos
These men and five or six Little
Rascals with them live extremely well off the sale of every physical thing our
Grandparents, parents, ourselves and children contributed to
WCG.
These men got a pass for their part
in all the WCG upheaval and chaos
Man number 2 seems pretty proud of
himself for pulling this off
These men got a pass for their part
in the WCG upheaval and chaos
These men were never held
accountable for anything nor showed one bit of regret for jerking the rug out
from under good folk and merely reinventing a very old wheel to their own
satisfaction.
These men got a pass for their part
in the WCG upheaval and chaos
One of these when dying is said to
have said, "I have been so foolish."
These men got a pass for their part
in the WCG upheaval and chaos
The other of these men still lives
high off the hog, pretends to be a theologian and serves no real purpose in
the new and improved WCG, but is evidently in for life by his own decree, with
much gain. Is also known to have enjoyed creating cognitive dissonance and
enjoys the topic
These men got a pass for their part
in the WCG upheaval and chaos
Fill in the
blanks
______________ and
_____________
WHY DID THESE MEN GET A PASS FOR
THEIR PART IN THE WCG UPHEAVAL AND CHAOS ?
WHY DO THEY STILL REAP THE
PHYSICAL REWARDS OF THINGS THEY NEITHER BUILT NOR FINANACIAL SACRIFICES THEY
NEVER MADE?
WHY DO THEY GET AN UNACCOUNTABLE
PASS IN THESE MATTERS?
=================================
I believe it was during the great
Elijah vs. the Priests of Baal cook off that it was said, "IF God be God, serve
him. But if Baal be God, serve him" (I Kings 18). At
that time, it appears there were only two Bronze age concepts of God to choose
from. There was no room for any third options. It was a simple
either/or moment. I suppose it would have been considered in bad taste to
speak up and say, "Ummm...we forgot Molech or Chemosh! Can we select one
of them?" "No...you can't."
A few years back the Trilemma
(derivative of di-lemma which is what the Priests of Baal were faced with, was
introduced concerning Jesus as presented in the New Testament. Was
He "Liar, Lunatic or Lord?" Of course, the author chose Lord
and that was the end of it. As in the OT example of choosing only between
the two deities of the times YHVH or Baal we could have added "Legend" to
the Trilemma and called it the Quadlemma I suppose.
Religion is plainly designed to comfort
the human consciousness that life ends and then what. On the other hand,
some can't imagine that there is really nothing more and so insist on finding
something that is hopeful or give the impression that any falsehood you believe
is better than truth that is what it is. I don't think that way.
This musing is not about picking the
correct answer. It is about the dilemma of stepping outside the box of
what proved to be limited or carefully controlled information handed out ,
to myself , in this case on the nature of the Bible and the story of Jesus as
presented in the Gospels and interpreted mostly by the one man, the Apostle
Paul. I make no bones about the fact that I have lost my faith in
faith as Dan Barker experienced in his own evangelical life and wrote the
book Losing Faith in Faith. While liberating , it is
also a very bi polar feeling that I don't care for, causes all sorts of
unexpected emotions and not a little anxiety at times. It is also one of
the most lonely experiences I think one can experience save for physical
rejection or abandonment. Having had both I can at least compare the
emotions and they suck big time.
"I despise losing faith in
faith....It's Awesome!"
I have physically lost friends to their
loss of faith in faith. All were ministers. Several simply drank
themselves to an early death, which is a common out when wanting to escape the
thinking, thinking, thinking that loss of faith can produce. One outright
committed suicide and I am sure there are others I am not aware of. Having
the rug of faith jerked out from under you is nothing to scoff at and is not a
light thing. Those in WCG/CGI who provided the majority with
that experience, no matter how they viewed it as being "good" or "better" seem
never to have thought of expressing any sorrow over the havoc and chaos caused
all the way down the line. Even if WCG was "wrong" , the right thing for
leaders, falsely so called who come to such conclusions is to leave the
organization themselves and not try to swing it to their view come hell, which
it did or high water, which also did. The miracle of WCG is not in
coming to any Jesus more authentically. The miracle is rather than leaving
a faith you no longer have, you hijack the faith and make everyone else
leave. Now that's a great trick and it is the trick played by the few on
the many in this WCG experience. We're not talking about what is more
correct. We're talking about technique.
At my mom's memorial service I sat ten
feet from the minister giving the service. Lots of memories, both in that
seat and sanctuary and in doing funerals myself. When they sang the tunes
that still bring tears to me because of such fond memories and stability back
when, I can't bring myself to sing them now. I just held dad's hand and
stood there teary while my sisters sang their hearts out. A pretty
bi-polar experience for me. Sitting behind me was a former WCG minister
and now CGI type looking rather worse for wear in the whole experience. I stood
there looking at the same baptismal fount I was baptized in as a baby, sitting
next to the woman who carried me up the same isle as that baby to my
parents. The pews were the same pews I sat in when my feet would not touch
the floor and mom shoved pink mints in my mouth to shut me up. The same
table was there where I sat in catechism class asking too many questions and
being asked to leave, at 14. It was quite a bi-polar religious
experience and lots of time to think about it on the long drive back to South
Carolina.
The Wild World Church of God (WCG)
taught me a great spiritual lesson that still is a struggle to cope with in the
fine art of what happens when two concepts
collide...
Personal losses due to the stress and
shock of reckless theological change, no matter if it is more or less true, that
is not the point, are everywhere to be experienced. There is the "no
one is ever again going to tell me how it all is again," stage. In that
stage you suffer the bi polar experience of learning well what you failed to
learn the first time to be followed by the depression and anger felt that one
had to have that kind of stupid experience in the first place. It's easy
after that to do more dumb ass stuff doesn't help but is a symptom of this
stage.
Marriage falls apart because
transitions are messy and being in different books much less on different pages
takes its toll. And yes, I accept my own responsibility for it all.
New relationships seem doomed until the "can't ya just move on stage"
shows up. I found out I was not an easy person to be around or live with
and as a result find myself alone again...unnaturally. I met someone from
my past who took my heart with "I have always loved you..."
but that turned out to just be the first of several sucker punches.
I have met a couple people in my life that seemed to fall into that 'soul mate'
category. You know the kind that you just seem to have to ask, "have we
met before?," or "do I know you?" and have learned that ENFP's according to
Meyers/Briggs are good at that intuitive stuff. It also tells us to beware
and this is true. Sometimes in life there is NOTHING left to do but have a
good laugh! And this is also true.
Someone once said, "Silence is
the voice of God," and now I understand what that means. Being silent
and alone is getting more acceptable to my nature, but it was and is a very
painful experience. Sometimes I wish "I was wrong, I'm sorry, please
forgive me, I love you," actually worked, but it doesn't much.
It was enlightening to have
Israel Finkelstein, author of The Bible Unearthed, tell me face to face
that much of the Old Testament is made up to give a small people an amazing
heritage, and as an archaeologist and historian in his own country of
Israel finds, no evidence for the reality of the story as presented. In
other words, what I suspected, he verified and had the credentials to do
it. I know some zealots scoff at the hard work of getting those
credentials in the field, but the zealot would not last three minutes in his
presence. Dave Pack...maybe one.
They say you can't go home, and this
true. I can't un ring this bell of skepticism and knowing more now that I
would have wished to know back when so as to make a better life decision.
I kid about wanting to have been a paleontologist, but my love of what I thought
I was learning back when theologically diverted me over a cliff. I
would have made a darn good paleo guy and you'd not be reading these musings
from an authority on Neanderthal in Ice Age Europe or the Clovis Culture in
America.
Where I currently live can have it's
drug selling types too close for comfort. I spent years thinking I needed
a home defense weapon. But then I thought that might not be smart because
I may have too low a moment and really screw up. Besides, I don't want to
be a story in the Journal or have to read from whatever new location I would
hope to be in all your comments about it! I don't want Dave Pack to
restate his view that "all who oppose me end up dying..." To which I
say , "The only reason that is true is that it is appointed unto all men once to
die sometime jerk and it's not about you."
This bi polar experience still leaves
me with a love of theology. I admire the Bart Ehrman and Dan Barker
types who went from faith to faithless within the theological community and get
to teach why and get paid for it! The perfect theological position.
"Let's study what your Sunday School teacher and probably your pastor never
knew or won't talk about." I did get a synchronistic moment while watching
Bart Ehrman's lecture on "Misquoting Jesus," and got an email from him right in
the middle of it.
Well lots to say about this bi polar
feeling about the Faith and the Facts. I'll probably always get teary
hearing the old hymns of my youth but not the rather nasty and OT oriented ones
of WCG fame. I'll have to watch how much I drink and get used to the
quiet which I both enjoy and hate. I'll always read books on the why, when
and who of the Bible explained better than the first two times I gave it a go
and what the Bible no longer seems to hold over me. I'll be relieved and I'll
get anxious. I will forgive and then take it back and wish someone not
well in their ventures. Then I will forgive again. I'll move on and
get stuck. I'll get stuck and move on. I'll be lonely and love it
and lonely and hate it. I'll make friends and lose them. I'll beat
myself up and be kind to myself only to beat myself up again and be kind to
myself later again. I'll vow to give up Banned HWA and Face Book and go
back to them time and again. I'll not care about the Dave Packs of COGdom
and I'll spend hours talking with those who agonize over him destroying their
relationships and families by injecting his Bronze Age views into their
lives.
In short, I suppose being bi
polar on all things Spiritual and Scientific along with Faith
and Facts is here to stay.
"Chose ye this day whom ye shall
serve..! What say you?"
....ok...I chose yes.
I despise being bi-polar...It's
awesome!
=======================
Dear Church of God Ministry
This will be very short
and to the point. I would sincerely like to recommend you read Dr
Raymond Brown's classic and very well done volumes on The Death of the
Messiah before you give another sermon on just what did or did not happen
in the Gospel accounts of Jesus death.
Having been there, I
recall the endless arguments over 13th or 14th Passover and all the associated
issues and contradictions that everyone tried so hard to correlate and
harmonize. I realize you have no clue as to how we got the Gospels, who
actually wrote them and when, much less why but grow up or at least grow in
your knowledge if you can't grow in your grace towards others.
Next Christmas, when you
get all swoozy over the birth stories of Jesus, you can move on to...
Warm regards
denniscdiehl@AOL.com
-----------------------------------
The World Beyond the Plain and Real Living
and Restored Truth In Him and Brotherly Love
The recent posting of
pictures of the tearing down of the physical campus that once was Head
Quarters to the Worldwide Church of God and Ambassador College, ultimately can
only be taken, if one is remain somewhat sane, as a metaphor for life as it
unfolds and does what it does. Of the almost 2000 who daily read this
blog, each has their own reasons. Some I expect are merely curious but
firm in their views and members in good standing of one of the many off shoots
of WCG. Perhaps they just like the drama or the feeling it may give them
retrieving some of their own power by at least knowing everyone involved is
human. Some may be the kiss up types who keep up with things to
"report" to their minister that occasional recognizable writer who
sits with them in church. This would be rare, but I am sure it
happens.
I know ministers, both
past and present read this blog and I really KNOW that the five to ten well
known's must. They simply don't have the personality not to. As
Stan Rader, counsel to Herbert Armstrong once said in my presence,
"I don't care what you think of me, as long as you get my name spelled
correctly." Or in some cases today, be sure you call me
"Mr." Some no doubt read this blog as part of their own
journey out and away from their COG either knowing it is occurring or only
vaguely aware of the process that is unsettling them.
The emotions that go
with this kind of journey are myriad and vary in intensity. Some can move along
more easily than others having little or at least much less invested in the
experience than others. Sometimes someone will tell me that they left WCG
in 1971 and my internal reaction is , "Pffffffft....you weren't around
long enough to even get a stomach ache!" Sometimes I tell
myself, "Well, at least I wasn't born in Somalia, Iraq or Saudi
Arabia. I'd have been beheaded or necklaced by now for sure. It
is perversely comforting to come up with some "well at least..." to
take away the pain of the actual experience of being born into or caught up in
the reality that we call, "my life."
But to the point.
Staying angry, and I mean the kind that oozes from every comment, expresses
itself over and over in sarcasm and rancor or repeats the same old phrases over
and over, as if saying it for a decade can fix it, hurts no one but you and
me. No WCG/COG Guru is sitting at dinner this evening thinking about
you. Joe Tkach isn't going to apologize for lives smashed and hopes
derailed. He's not going to explain to anyone where your/our tithe money
went when his father, he, Bernie Schnippert, Mike Feazell, Dan
Rogers, Greg Albrecht and other specific luminaries pulled the theological rug,
suddenly and with intent, out from under tens of thousands of very sincere
people who simply want to know the who, what, where, when, why and how of all
things Bible and God. If we had been born in the Middle East, we'd be
looking into Islam in our lives or in China or Tibet, perhaps Buddhism.
Those would have been the boxes were were born in but actually were not.
But anger has to
eventually find its place or these is yet more of a price to pay.
"What eats you....eats YOU," comes to mind. Or as Mark
Twain noted...
“Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it
is stored
than to anything on which it is poured.”
--------------------------------------------------------------
“Angry people are not always wise.”
Jane Austen- Pride and Prejudice
"Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host.
But anger
is like fire. It burns it all clean.”
Maya Angelou
“Anybody can become angry — that is easy,
but to be angry with the
right person and to the right degree
and at the right time and for the right
purpose,
and in the right way — that is not within everybody's power and is not
easy.”
Aristotle
“I want to say somewhere: I've tried to be forgiving. And yet.
There were times in my life, whole years, when anger got the better of me.
Ugliness turned me inside out.
There was a certain satisfaction in bitterness.
I courted it.
When I have sat at those
times when the whole WCG experience catches up with the present again and sits
me down on the couch starring at the old movie running in my head on all things
WCG, I sometimes have enough sense to ask myself what the core problem is
through all this. Could not have said this better...
“Most hatred is based on fear, one way or another.
Yeah. I wrapped
myself in anger, with a dash of hate,
and at the bottom of it all was an icy
center of pure terror.”
― Laurell K. Hamilton, Guilty Pleasures
― Laurell K. Hamilton, Guilty Pleasures
I can't speak for you,
but I was not kidding and had no doubts when way to young to know what real
doubts were, when I dropped everything in NY and went to California thinking
Ambassador was a Theological Seminary and the Faculty really were Doctors of and
experts in the origins, intent, history and theology of the Bible.
I was 18 for Chr..., Pete's sake! I went there to be a church
Pastor. Why go if not to teach what inspired me and answered my questions
about really big topics??? When GTA announced the FIRST assembly that
"if any of you came here to be a minister, you better get that out of your
head..." , I chortled to myself and said, "we'll
see." I used to study Saturday evenings alone in my dorm and the Dean
of Students decided to cure me of that by putting me in a white monkey suit of
a coat to stand by the American Flag at basketball games instead. My
first experience of standing up on the outside but sitting down on the
inside. It was not a total loss though. I got to watch Dave Pack
play basketball, so that was good.
Back to fear. When
the WCG rug was pulled out, sincere folk, who thought they had the fear of
death, fear of illness, fear of being alone, fear of few friends and countless
other fears beat, found out how quickly fear returned and rushed in to fill the
void. Fear can make you say dumb shit. It can make you drink too much,
eat too much and even decide to go shoot someone. It at least is clear to
me that some really thinking Bible author understood that perfect love
casts out , not hate, but fear. Hate is not the opposite of love.
Fear is the opposite of love. Hate is a symptom of fear, just as sarcasm
or a punch in the mouth might be.
So we have a
choice. Life is choices as much as I hate being told that sometimes by
some who seem to have it all going their way as if they chose it so easily or
it came easily. I find those who are the most comfy at times to be the
ones who so easily can tell everyone else to just be comfy. The other
side of that coin is that told to us by those who are not so comfy but have
awakened to the reality of growing through it or ending up just bitter and
someone that few wish to be around.
“Transformation is my favorite game and in my experience,
anger
and frustration are the result of you not being
authentic somewhere in your
life or with someone in your life.
Being fake about anything creates a block
inside of you.
Life can’t work for you if you don’t show up as you.”
― Jason Mraz
― Jason Mraz
I've been sent emails by
the well meaning advising me not to be so personal or share personal failings
and such when writing. But what help is that? Being authentic is
something that has always been important to me and a classic trait of the ENFP
personality type as expressed in the Meyers Briggs view. It is not easy,
can be embarrassing and often used against one, but it beats fake and glazed
over. Being open about thoughts and even failings is therapeutic once one
carves the Four Agreements into one's soul.
- 1. Be impeccable with your word. What kinds of words to you use when you describe reality? Do you lie and say hurtful and poisonous things about yourself and others? Not healthy! To be impeccable with your word is to be truthful and to say things that have a positive influence on yourself and others.
- 2. Don't take anything personally. The first agreement suggests that we avoid treating others hurtfully. The second agreement provides us with a way of dealing with potentially hurtful treatment from others. Because each person sees the world in a unique way, the way that others treat us says as much about them as it does about us. To not take anything personally is to acknowledge the unique identities of other people. We respect their subjective realities, realizing that their views do not necessarily describe us accurately.
- 3. Don't make assumptions. Assuming that you know what other people are thinking or feeling about you is a limiting thought that Aaron Beck called Mind Reading. Obviously, none of us can read minds. When we try to engage in mind reading we will often be wrong, leading to undesirable consequences. The antidote to mind reading is to ask for evidence before concluding what people are thinking.
- 4. Always do your best. More subtle still is the recognition that our "best" will vary from moment to moment, that, in a sense, you are always doing your best. Realize this, and your inner Judge can take a permanent vacation.
Don Miguel Ruiz
In ministry, one thing
become very clear about the people you find yourself around, member or minister.
Everyone wears masks. I think the source of this is the unrealistic views
the Bible forces upon humans. "Be ye therefore perfect as your
father in heaven is perfect...," and such baloney as that wreaks havoc in
humans who think that is the goal as a human. Whether it means perfect as
in sinless, ha, or mature as in like God, ha ha, it is not possible and
you and I never met one human who was that in this life. I will spare you
the masks thing and have written about his here: Everyone Wears Masks - Your Pastor and Priest, Your Mom, Dad, Family, and YOU!
So, back to our
anger. What are we going to do with it? Will it heal us or , as
said, "where am I going, and why am I in this hand
basket?" Choices.
“Let today be the day you stop being haunted by the ghost of
yesterday.
Holding a grudge & harboring anger/resentment is poison to the
soul.
Get even with people...but not those who have hurt us,
forget them,
instead get even with those who have helped us.”
― Steve Mariboli, Life, the Truth, and Being Free
― Steve Mariboli, Life, the Truth, and Being Free
“Learn this from me. Holding anger is a poison. It eats you from
inside.
We think that hating is a weapon that attacks the person who harmed us.
But hatred is a curved blade.
And the harm we do, we do to ourselves.”
― Mitch Albom- The Five People You Meet in Heaven
― Mitch Albom- The Five People You Meet in Heaven
“Anger is stupid,
and stupidity will kill you more surely than
your opponent's blade.”
― Patricia Briggs, Dragon Bones
― Patricia Briggs, Dragon Bones
I imagine all the people
above learned these truths by being angry about all sorts of life stuff,
perhaps over a very long time and then coming to conclude it was over. Somewhat
like Forrest Gump running and running and running no where special to deal with
the loss of the love of his life. There came that moment where he simply
stopped, listened momentarily to the voice in his head, and realized
enough was enough and it was time to go home.
=======================
The Greek word for “voice” is phone (fo-NAY’)
DP...Fo-Nay Home!
"I'm invited? Great! See ya
soon!"
Dear Mr. Pack, (maybe I will get through if I am respectful)
I have read your entire
incredible and best ever letter written to all of COGdom. You have a very
loud voice (Fo-Nay) in print and in your Sabbath Service I am sure.
Unlike the Apostle Paul who felt he was troubled by a weak bodily presence
as well, I'm sure that's never been a problem for you either.
That being said, I'm feeling
rather anxious over my eternal future since your "fo-nay"
letter spoke so plainly about my absolute need to return to the true Church
begun by Mr. Armstrong and now continued by none other than yourself.
You said:
"The most important and conclusive letter I have written to the Worldwide Church of God splinters has been posted! I promise this will be the single most crucial one you will ever read. If you do not read it all, it will be the worst decision you have made since God called you. Believe this!"
Your loud fo-nay went on to
threaten my lack of understanding of your way of seeing all things GOD with not
only committing sin which can never be forgiven, no, not in this world or in
the next, but also a free eternal vacation of permanent
non-existence, compliments of the Lake of Fire. That's a lot of fo-nay to
handle all in one sitting. Especially since I bet both your an my enthusiasm
back in the day over what we were learning from the WCG as teens probably
matched pretty closely. My kids grew up where you were born and your kids
were babysat by my parents as they grew up, so we have ties.
Mr. Pack...never in my life
did I ever wish to speak with a phoney fo-nay. I always , like you, just
wanted to know the truth of the Bible. Now we both know you and I are
very good Bible readers. We were so very well trained at reading the
Bible. On top of that, we got really good at reading the Bible in all
sorts of orders and in all sorts of combinations to get out of it what we
needed to get out of it. We "hear a littled and there a
littled" ourselves right into any truth that needed to be proved. We
were trained "Cobblemeisters" if ever there were any. Line up
line, precept upon precept, we cobbled our way through everything from "ye
are gods..." to "will a man rob God," and beyond. We
were the "Cut n Paste Church of God," and while many churches are
also that, if not all, we were pretty good at it. Well, you still
are.
Well, throw me in the lake
of fire, I know, but I went on to other perspectives too numerous to
mention, but all very Biblical in nature and I really would love to share
them with you. After all, so much is at stake and being wrong seems to
have such severe consequences. The one scary thing about Christianity is
that one must be the very correct form of it or else. No pressure there!
We could talk about Adam and
Eve and really get lost in just the first 11 chapters of Genesis wondering if
they are literally true or a bit less than that. We can really have a
great time with women's issues, the fall, Original Sin, Noah and his Aardvarks
and just were did all our human languages come from? I'd like to discuss
evolution of all life and what in the Bible might just be mythically so
but not so literally so.
I'd just love to talk
over those Two Trees in the Garden Mr. Armstrong spoke so often about and what
they really meant . Would it not be amazing to finally get the uni-plural
rascal called Elohim straight once and for all? Who are the "let
us" and "we" El was speaking to and just what are Elohim in the
first place? Boy, we all about passed out when Mr. Armstrong said,
"There were two trees in the Garden of Eden..."
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. I always felt bad but we both had what was
to follow memorized but good. Finally, we can get it right! Would
that not be awesome?
I really have questions I'd
like you to answer for me about the Gospels including the contradictions I
think I see, Jesus birth stories and just what did happen when he died? Rod
Meredith won't talk to me about such things and he was the one who taught it
all to us. Harmony of the Gospels he called it. Whoa..no offense,
but I have found there is much less harmony than we had both been taught.
Alas...I appreciated his efforts, but he too was and is a mere Bible
reader and he never once allowed me to ask any questions he might no know the
answer to. I know you would not do that to me. Our fo-nays must be clear
on these matters if one is to feel the need to tell others how they should and
must be in this life. If we don't speak with a clear fo-nay, we might be
perceived as fo-nee. Get my drift???
Would love to discuss the
Apostle Paul and his relationship to the Apostles with you too. You and
Paul both have much in common. No one knows how the Apostle Paul got to
be an Apostle and no one can figure out just who laid hands on him to do so,
but with Bob Thiel being a Prophet without hands , we may be able to get to the
bottom of this too. You are an Apostle and I have the same question about
that as I have about the Apostle Paul but we can cover that when you invite me
to debate and discuss these things before the masses. I think it is
humorous that of the 24 times in the NT Paul is called an Apostle it is Paul
who calls himself one 22 times. Isn't that interesting? Luke, his
side kick called him one twice. Other than that, I can't find where the
original Apostles themselves said he was one. I think the original rules
for being an Apostle were that you had "seen" the resurrected Jesus ,
but those rules are confusing. Mary should have been one to then I
suppose. Paul never met Jesus so his "have I not seen the
Lord," was in his head as we know. I think that was fudging the
credentials of an Apostle. I saw Santa once come down the stairs at my
house, when I was little. I saw him so I guess I am a Santanist? No
wait...not that!!! Never mind!
At any rate, one last
time. Since my former association as both member and minister qualifies
me as one of those who will all return IF I get your story right , we gotta
talk about your story. I have some questions. I believe I will know
the answers you will give before you actually give them, but I'm not so sure
you will know mine. I don't wish to be in the Lake of Fire. I don't
want to commit any unforgivable sins (Christ must have not qualified enough to
forgive that puppy!) and I don't particularly like being threatened with such
things without a chance to question you and explain myself... Good questions
well put can't be all that frightening can they?
So how about it?
Debate me. Sit with me before your own audience of believers and followers in
the comfort of your surroundings. I will be the one to step into your
world. To be fair, I will bring one person of with me to record
accurately what is said so it can be accurately passed on to others like me who
are in this danger of unforgiven sin and eternal death. (I know how you
used to redraw church boundaries when the next door minister wasn't looking so
there would be more in your Church area, so I gotta keep an eye on ya a bit. )
Unforgivable sins and lakes of fire are not small things for us to ignore for
sure, and I'm trying not to but you gotta work with me on this one.
Give me two hours during
Unleavened Bread to sit with you during services and chat about these things
before your church. I won't bring or eat unleavened bread , pork or Jello
the whole time . To the Jew I will be a Jew and to a Gentile I can be a
Gentile. Now I never understood how one could trust an Apostle and what
he really believed who thought that way, but it sounds good. If you need
til next FOT to prepare, we can do that too.
Debate me Mr. Pack.
Invite me to discuss all things Bible together before your own friendly folk
who also claim to just want to know the truth of the Bible and if what you tell
them about it all is accurate and inerrant in all things.
And if you won't, or can't
or shouldn't...don't you ever again imply that I or any of us who have
puked our way through the drama and trauma of the World Wide Church of God are
in mortal and spiritual danger, staring both sins that can never be forgiven
and eternal damnation in a Lake of Fire, in the face, for not joining
your vision and version of the "Good News."
If nothing else...think of
the good press you will get and potential newbies you may reap if you can crush
me in public with your real truth and awesome knowledge of who and what
God and Je, Christ are doing on earth today. .
DP..fo-nay home. We
have much to speak freely about, in public and wherever you are
comfortable.
And no, I am not kidding
You In Your Small Corner...And I In Mine
I really enjoyed the
responses to the Grain of Sand article. It is not that we can all agree
on the deep things of science, quantum physics and cosmology, but it is
that many with a COG background have grown up to know that these things are there
to be studied , observed and understood even if it also ends up being
opinion. It is informed opinion! Being informed about anything
besides Bible reading is not one of the COGs greatest strong points.
As a pastor, I cringed,
even back when, to hear someone say, "Well Eve...." or
"Adam said...", along with most pronouncements from
"God" when it was really an author of Isaiah, Jeremiah or Ezekiel who
"said." Church of God pastors, much less laity, know virtually
nothing outside of their very small world of "God said..." If
they do, they are terribly quiet about it. They don't know about anything
such as "action at a distance," parallel universes, string theory,
Brane theory, the bi-cameral mind, or the information over the last 20 years
about human origins that has demolished "A Whale of a Tale" or
"A Theory for the Birds." That modern birds are
most likely the descendents of the dinosaur , feathers preceded flight for
other reasons than flying or that modern whales have the remnants of pelvis and
hind limbs eludes them. All quite wonderful stuff actually. It
matters little if the universe is plasma based, full of dark matter that
explains the push apart of space and time or holographic in nature. It is
that one knows the possibilities in an age where excellent knowledge, and I
hesitate to say this....is increased!
I like the idea of
parallel universes that other flat universes like our own may be just out of
reach. I like the idea that perhaps when they touch at times, they
produce a new universe in the resulting explosion and big bang as we might
say. Can I prove it. Hell no! Physicists can't and I'm no
physicist.
But the possibility
exists which is all that matters. The math seems to work until it
doesn't.
The point is that the
COGs have yet to put aside childish things which include everything from real
human origins versus why the story of an Adam and Eve is told, to the false
perspective that all the New Testament characters loved and all believed the same
one thing. They did not and if you now where to look, within the text of
the NT is the sarcasm and face punches that each deliver to the other to send
the message of "follow me, not him," much as we see today.
Truly nothing new under that sun.
I have learned that
discussion with differing views is great, but arguing is fruitless. Never
in the history of this blog, and most others I expect , has just the right
argument been offered for this or that view where others said, "you
know...you are right." Never happened far as I remember and never
will. Each wants their own view to be the truth which is hangover
from WCG days of wanting to know "how did you come into the
truth." It would have been better asked, "how did you come into
the present truth," but too late now.
No one can be in their
perspectives where they are not. I can't be where some are because either
I used to be there and moved on or never want to be there in the first place
because it makes no sense to me. Group think does not work in the pursuit
of real truth and individuals, not organizations produce real truth, painfully
and often after ridicule and scoffing have run their courses. Being ahead
of one's time never worked out well for the theologically or scientifically curious.
Hierarchy must demolish individuality quickly or it will cease to be
organized. Oh to have a church where what you study, believe or see for
yourself is encouraged and not crushed. The crush factor in the
COGs is an art form by now.
Pot shots at others is a
skill and need of the insecure. Name calling or abusive challenges mean
nothing in reality. They speak little of the one who causes them and
volumes about the one that inflicts them. No one likes the feeling of
being ill informed or outright wrong. But as I have said in the past, I
have never met anyone who belonged to the false church or believed the wrong
things. It is where one is when one is there.
I think we hold our
ground out of the utter insecurity of relinquishing it. I had it all
figured out and someone tells me I don't? The way I see science matches
how I see the Bible and you dare tell me they don't match and I am kidding
myself? You say I can't believe in both Adam and Eve and Genesis and
science well done when I know I absolutely can? How dare you tell me what
I can't mix and match.
For example, I have
never had a good answer from a fundamentalist as to why Jesus death was the
most hideous and sacrificial of all deaths ever. When one calmly looks at
the story, it seems merely an weekend inconvenience for God the Father and
Jesus. God knew he would bring him back and Jesus seemed to know he would
be coming back...in a mere three days and better than ever. That is a far
cry from the kind of death and sacrifice portrayed even in the Bible.
Every sacrifice in the OT stayed dead. They didn't just seem to
die. They actually died and have not been seen or heard from since.
Jesus, if you read the news and history, did not die the most awful death "above
all men." General Crawford captured by the Wyandot's in Ohio trumps
Jesus by a long shot. A burning tire around your neck or being buried
alive after digging your own grave in Nigeria or Somalia seems a bit more awful
to me. And I bet those men and women cried out to their God to be saved
and heard nothing back. No one to date has explained to me how Jesus
death was the most amazing thing and that God "gave his only begotten
son," and not add on , "for a mere three days getting him back better
than ever." Everyone I ever buried is still dead. Shouldn't a
real sacrifice stay dead to be a sacrifice?
Part of the answer is
that if the doctrine of Jesus kept Jesus dead, you have no way to make a
religion out of that. You would have no way to prove that dead was
different from any other dead we all experience. You must get a god
resurrected and available if you are going to have a Church. But in fact,
it makes no sense to say that Jesus died the worst and most sacrificial of
deaths. He was gone three days and back better than ever. Even as
far as being crucified is concerned, he died in a mere six hours when that kind
of death that tens of thousands experienced at the hands of Romans took days
and only when your body fell off the cross and was eaten by dogs were you done
with it. Ministers are so used to exaggerating and emotionalizing Jesus
death as presented contradictorily in scripture habitually. They don't
think it through. Or maybe I'm nuts. :)
At any rate, good on all
you who have expanded your thinking to include science well done. Even
if proven inadequate or wrong, real science has the habit of admitting or
catching mistakes or wrong theories and moving on. Religion thinks there
are no mistakes or if they find one, kill the person who brought it to their
attention and bury it in double talk. (Read The Surprising God Log for
excellent examples of this kind of doublespeak. http://thesurprisinggodblog.gci.org/
)
The meme for blind faith
secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of
discouraging rational inquiry.
Richard Dawkins
======================
The Grain of Sand
Speaks...
Reflect on this Dr. Thiel
"Maybe those in LCG should realize that God may not be giving that group as much favor anymore? LCG no longer truly leads God's work. Hopefully, possibly because of its fast today, some will be better able to reflect on that."Dr. Robert Thiel,
Non Prophet Continuing Church Of God
Perspective is not something most human beings are
really good at. The Churches of God certainly aren't into
perspective about themselves as far as I can tell. We give
lip service to "Dear Lord, please bless us in your infinite wisdom for you
are so very very large and we so very very small," but we usually
end up forgetting that and the big head sets in again.
ex·ag·ger·ate
(g-zj-rt)
v.
ex·ag·ger·at·ed, ex·ag·ger·at·ing, ex·ag·ger·ates
1. To represent as greater than is actually the case; overstate: exaggerate the size of the enemy force; exaggerated his own role in the episode.2. To enlarge or increase to an abnormal degree: thick lenses that exaggerated the size of her eyes. To make overstatements.
It is understandable that many leaders in the COG
exaggerate just about everything they come in contact with is but
is not unique to them. The Bible actually has played its part
in teaching many to exaggerate with its own exaggerations.
Genesis 22:17
I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies,
Our mere 6 billion are already too many and
straining the system. A mere smudge of humanity is actually descended
from Abraham, if he ever existed. Israelites and Palestinians are
virtually indistinguishable from each other genetically. Hebrews were
merely the outcast Canaanite clan. Modern Israelis have very
little actually DNA connection to original Hebrews in "the Holy Land."
Hundreds of billions of stars in one galaxy with
hundreds of billions of galaxies in what may prove to be one grape of a
universe on one cluster, on one vine, in one row in one vineyard probably
is not what the Creator meant. We now are pretty sure Abraham's descendents
won't actually be as the stars of heaven or the sand in the sea, but we'll get
to that sand thing in a moment.
Whether it is the awesome number of booklets one of
the Churches produce, the amazing response they had to a TV program,
or the dozens of people that sit before them in church, perspective
eludes them. They can and have "gone them therefore into all the
world" in such amazing ways and for many years now that 99+ percent
of the planet has never so much as heard of them, much less agreed with
them. Go to any beach, scoop up a bucket of sand from one of them and
that's about the amount of influence they have had on this planet with the one
truth that must be spread or no flesh would saved alive.
Now...either they are missing something in all this,
or God is way to small for the job himself and not doing so well with it
either. Personally I wish that The Deity has cut out all the middle men
long ago. How much further ahead would we actually be if we didn't have
to go through priests, be heckled by prophets or try and figure out who the
true and who the false apostles were? I say the Deity should have, from
the start, offered seminars, personally conducted by itself with open question
and answer sessions as desired. A buffet of what the Deity actually approves
of as food fit to eat would be awesome! I'd like to see Gospel
Jesus get to know Revelation Jesus and actually hear what the disciples , now
apostles, have to say about Paul, but that can be for another time.
Back to self absorbed and ego centric wanna
be's.
Self consumed and self absorbed, their impression of
their importance, understanding and place in the universe becomes laughable
even when compared to other churches, denominations, sects and cults...much
less splinters and slivers. In the above quote and view, Dr. Thiel
is tsk tsking the Living Church of God for perhaps not being able to be used by
the God of the Universe to "do the work" as in the
past. To Bob, this is no mere coincidence. Plainly,
since his falling out with LCG and their apparent rejection of his awesome
self and in sights has occurred, God is packing up too and going with
Bob. Where Bob goes can God and Jesus be far behind? Ummmm....sure!
What Bob means is that God takes his cues from what
Bob does or thinks. If Bob had stayed, and he may wish he had in time,
then we'd know God would stay with them as well. But if Bob gets offended
and leaves, well then, the God of the Universe also gets offended and begins to
withdraw his blessing from those that rejected His chosen servant and
prophet. Bob is not the first person I have encountered in my life who
thinks this way, but I spare you some pretty pathetic stories of special people
I have met through ministry.
Bob hopes their now past fast will help them to see
this easily discernable truth. Actually, I'm just kidding. This
arrogance wrapped in a fake and false humility is beyond offensive and
insulting to those who have half the brain it would take to see this.
Those with less than half may not be able to comprehend what they are seeing
however and evidently won't or don't.
So, let's get back to that one grain of sand on the
beach thing for true perspective.
If you were to take one grain of actual sand, stick
it on the end of your index finger, extend your arm out and hold the grain of
sand up to the heavens , this is what you will find in the space that one grain
of sand covers up in the night sky.
The Hubble eXtreme Deep Field (XDF) combines Hubble observations taken over the past decade of a small patch of sky in the constellation of Fornax. With a total of over two million seconds of exposure time, it is the deepest image of the Universe ever made. Credit: credit: NASA, ESA, G. Illingworth, D. Magee, and P. Oesch (University of California, Santa Cruz), R. Bouwens (Leiden University), and the HUDF09 Team
EVERY speck of light and spiral in this photo is one
of 5500 galaxies each containing hundreds of billions of stars. This is
what you can hide behind one grain of sand at arms length. And there is
much more behind this but our technology is not there yet. We're seeing
here what these galaxies looked like 13.2 billion years ago. They could
still be there or not by this time.
One of these...
x 5500 behind one grain of sand on the end of your fingertip held up to the night sky.
Are we feeling important yet? Do we actually
think the Universe knows about us or is impressed by the COG Self Appointed
types or the Pope for that matter?
I going to go with no. All flesh is as grass
is being generous. Very generous.
Need more to think about ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgg2tpUVbXQ
I believe the Universe must be teeming with life and
much of it way beyond what we are humans can conceive of. I'm also going
to bet that none of it or they have ever heard of the awesome and
amazing, over arching and incredible Churches of God or their ego centric and
self absorb one man shows of leadership.
Personal humility and men getting out of their own heads
long enough to keep themselves in perspective is not one of the COG leadership
qualities that shine through the darkness. Probably because minds like
Dr. Thiel's and others simply cannot imagine a world without their input and
"understanding." It is quite a joke actually.
I think in time, for those with eyes to see and
minds to think it through, one can come to see the Bible and it's cultic
God that inhabited an obscure mountain in an obscure land barking
obscure orders to an obscure people on an obscure planet in a rather
average solar system and galaxy is simply too small a god, should it actually
exist.
Instead of sermons and Bible studies, I suggest the
COGs, and I mean all of them from Grace Community formerly known as WCG to the
most obscure of men trying to be and think more highly than they ought give
apologies instead. Apologies for the big head, ego centric and self
absorbed fairly theologically uneducated selves they have inflicted on many
other well meaning and sincere humans who simply wish to know what it's really
all about. I doubt you guys have a clue. I don't, but if I thought
I did, I doubt I'd be comfortable presenting myself to the world of sand grains
in the arrogant and puffed up manner you guys have mastered
Last week I picked up my mom's cremains. Ten
pounds of stardust. Ten pounds of sand. One grain of that sand
can block out a billion worlds and none of them ever heard of you who think
more highly of yourselves than you ought...
Forget All the COG Drama...
How Are YOU Doing?
If it is one thing I
recognize in myself it is the rather profound effect being both member an
minister in the WCG has had on me. I discovered WCG at 14, believing it
to be a better alternative, more Biblically accurate and honest about the
contents of the Bible than the Presbyterian box I was born into. In hind
sight, I was a weird kid. Always wanting to know "why" and
always intrigued with the Bible. I still am and give up on that ever
changing.
It is now 14 years after
being out of the WCG loop. I have written about it, spoken about it,
debated about it and had regrets about the whole experience. I also
recognize the good things that came from up as in family and some few remaining
friends. Very few however.
This experience has pushed
me relentless to know what it was I was not taught. Where did the Bible
really come from? Who really wrote it and why? Why does it
contradict itself and why do people say it does not. Which parts are myth
and which parts historical? Is it for us or was it for them?
All incredibly fascinating topics to me and I feel that , at least for me, I
have done my homework and am currently satisfied with my present truth. I
am not so bold as to think I know how it all is, but the journey is more
inspiring than finding anything which I suppose would only launce me on another
journey.
I have lost relationships,
found them and lost them again. I'm not an easy person to live around I
suppose at times. I have done the depressed thing, the anxious thing, the
confused thing and the angry thing. I think there must be more things to
be and do but they don't come to mind at the moment.
I know I don't share these
emotional views alone. Those of you here on this site know in down to
your toes how this experience has affected you and I imagine it is not all that
different from how it has affected me.
But when it is all said and
done. When all the sarcasm and anger, when all the rancor and scoffing is
done...how are YOU doing? I have three former minister friends who
ended their lives over the confusion in WCG and "the
changes." I have minister friends who sank into alcoholism trying to
blot out the pain of their good youthful intentions gone so bad. I know
people who would like the simple pleasure without the penalty of handing some
people their teeth in a bag. I probably have a few that would like to do
the same to me. Reckless change and human stupidity as seen, in my view,
among the WCG "leadership" is painful and hard to forget when it
impacts on you long after it occurs.
At my mom's memorial service
last week in Rochester, NY, I couldn't sing the hymns chosen and my sisters
noticed it big time. On the other hand, I sobbed quietly when they sang
"How Great Thou Art" because that is a favorite and one that I had always
hoped was so. "When Christ shall come....in shouts of
acclamation...I scarce can take it in..." did me in. I am not
oblivious to the duality of hope and knowledge or myth and reality. My
mind knows I am a hairless ape of the genus homo and my heart wants to be a spirit
trapped in a limited five sensed, carbon based wet suit...for now.
But back to the
question. How are YOU doing?
Are you stuck? I
was/am stuck depending on the topic. Stuck is ok if it is stuck and not a
permanent position to be in. Stuck in bitter or stuck in angry is not
going to serve you or me very well. It will shorten your life and cloud
your progress. This is why I refer to my own life as just a story that
could have gone so many different ways. It just happened to go the WCG
way. Had I not missed that flight from LA to Salt Lake to Boise on June
6th, 1971, it would have been a different story.
Some symptoms of stuckness
is our repeating the same lines and comments over and over. I do it and
so do most of you. It is because we think we have not been heard or
understood, so we say it again. But we have been heard and it is
understood so being stuck in it is not helpful to your own growth and
life. Admitting you might be stuck is the key to getting unstuck.
I'll stay to be helpful to
those progressing in their journey, but I can't stay to just be stuck.
How's your anger
level? I have a boat load of anger but in time you come to see that the
people you are angry with are probably out to dinner not thinking one bit about
you. I have little use for certain WCG administrators and fake
theologians and they know it, but it will not change them and only hurts me, as
far as I can tell. The Reconciliation Dept at WCG told me they wished me
well and would pray for me. Gee thanks guys. Best example of
"be warmed and be filled" I have ever heard. However, I can not
change them. I can only change me. Anger serves a purpose, but not
for very long and I find it is simply my pain body, believe in the concept or
not, wanting to feed and make me miserable for a time until it is happy
again.
Have you learned to think
for yourself? Hope so. Churches like Dave Pack's Restored Church of
God, or Flurry's Philadelphia Church of God or Weinland's Pre-Packaged Church
of God can thrive in an environment of people who don't think for
themselves. They exist because people don't and won't think for
themselves. They thrive because their followers truly are
followers. Few churches can survive the light of day when it has members
who insist on thinking for themselves and coming to their own conclusions about
all things theological. I have said before I personally don't think
"all speaking the same thing," is possible in reality, but it is a
goal for organizational thinking and one that is needed to hold it all
together.
Has this experience left you
depressed (unresolved anger that you feel you have no right to expressed,
or the price of expressing is simply too high.)? That demon has trailed
me since some of the first WCG scandals unfolded. I was and am a rather
naive and idealistic soul so those crazy things, like the Receivership of days
gone by, left me puzzled and addled. Meds aren't the answer to
depression. Facing reality and letting go is. All suffering
is some form of non-acceptance, as is all negativity. Clinging to what we
thing should be or fussing over what we think should not be is simply
useless. "It is what it is," is the truth. Grow
with it.
How about anxiety?
Whoa...I'm the expert here. Laugh, scorn or mock all you want but having
no support in older years from WCG , when they said not to be concerned about
it, is my problem and not yours. But it is real. However, all I can
do is accept reality and do the best I can. Kodak still helps out my 97
year old dad but the wonderful world of religion has left me with a very bad
taste in my mouth for those that lied about such matters. It is not a
surprise to me that the current WCG leadership, well I guess I mean Grace
Community...park their cars behind locked security gates at their office.
I imagine they sometimes look around as well before going to their cars.
You can't abuse and offend the spiritual life and hopes of tens of thousands
and not expect a few to not wish you well.
I probably have had GAD
(General Anxiety Disorder) all my life or at least it bloomed early in my WCG
ministry. How nuts it was to hope for relief by picking one of the most
stress filled religious orgahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqnEGu8VF8Ynizations
on the face of the earth! lol. (Head Slap!)
The cure, for me, and I
would expect for those that still have this emotion as left over baggage from
WCG is to simply learn the skill of letting go and accepting things as they
are. I don't know if there is meaning in all these experiences, but there
is education. It is Earth School at its finest.
Some of Tolle that helps
me. He simply brings Buddhism to the Western mind.
Some other more in the realm of science done well
that helps.
These give me perspective and somehow it helps to
realize...that is make real, the fact that we are all a part of the one grand
thing. It works for me. Perhaps not you.
Some say we choose our story before we arrive or are
living this life to have experiences. If so, I must have been drunk when
I wrote the script before showing up! lol. But , it is what it
is.
So how are you doing? For everyone that
actually comments or writes on this site, I think a thousand merely
observe. That's fine. I want to ask you how you are doing through
all this? Are you growing through? Do you think more for
yourself? Are you rightfully less trusting of the one man show who wants
you to follow and believe as they or he believes. Can you think
critically about the sermons you are presented with or the interpretations your
minister puts on the Bible...which some would call spin? Are you brave
enough to question? Can you look your pastor in the eye and say,
"that's your opinion and we'll see."? Can you see
your church may actually live in a very small and unreal world that is not
helping you as much as you think?
It's a simple question. With all that has
transpired. With all that has happened and all the drama. With all
the disappointment. With all the emotions. With all the
various splinters and slivers that have arisen to claim ownership of the
truth. For all the pain this process has caused. With all you/we/us have
been forced to face and admit... How are you doing?
Send It In!
All churches require
money to operate their ministries. All churches have come to realize that
just depending on "give as you are able" or deciding for
oneself what they can afford to give does not work well when you want to build
things and put your ideas out "to all the world." Around here
the radio ministers make no bones about the Christian obligation to tithe so
get over it and "send it in!"
Among the "send it in" ministers who take the prize for pushing members to the brink and over at times is Dave Pack, Apostle and many other glorious titled founder of the Restored Church of God. Dave coined the "send it in" concept and is well known for his insane demands for retirements, homes, estates and any spare cash you may have just sitting doing nothing in the bank. If you wish to hear him directly commanding it, find a copy of "A Clarion Call" and be inspired or enraged depending on your orientation. (Exposés of "Clarion Call" can be found here and here.)
So to the point. Some simple concepts and rules the member should adopt in their giving, NO MATTER HOW THREATENING YOUR PASTOR GETS TO SEND IT IN.
Your hard earned monies are yours
Your retirement is yours
Your home is yours
Your bank account is yours
Your belongings are yours
Your time is yours
Your mind is yours
Your family comes FIRST
Your needs come FIRST
Your children come FIRST
I realize the Bible tells you differently in places and ministers can quote "God" to you all day guilting you out of your own mind and common sense if you allow it. Please remember, even if don't understand this. Human Priests in the OT wrote the OT and every rule in the OT that the masses must obey. If you do not understand this Bible fact, do your homework. It will easy your mind that you are not really offending a Deity that also says He owns the cattle on a thousand hills , which if He really needed money, He could sell since they belong to Him.
So here are the real rules if you wish to keep your own integrity in tack along with your mind and resources.
Never give what you do not have
Never give beyond that which you are able thinking it will come
back to you. It won't
Never give up your home to a church cause
Never give up your property to a church cause
Never Will your home, property and stuff to any church...EVER!
Never allow your personal finances to become the business of the
Church or the leadership of that Church
Never dip into your retirement for a current Church need or
want...EVER!
Never be afraid to undo what you said you'd do...no matter what
you think the Ananias and Sapphira tale was all about. It is not what you
think is about.
Never put yourself in a place of need by giving to someone who has
everything already
Never send in diamonds, physical gold or silver to your
church. It will be kept by the ministry and the rings will end up on the
hands of their kid's fiancé.
Never break these rules or you will live to regret it.
Always feel free to repeal what you said you'd give under duress of
sermons filled with proof-texting and too long in your seat hearing about
it. You won't be struck dead.
Always check out the size, quality and location of your pastor’s
home
Always demand to know the real salary the guru gives to himself or
family members
Always use the phrase "I'll take that under
consideration," when you are being commanded to do something by your
minister.
Always defend your family and partner before you defend the Pastor
or Church
Always allow for anything the Pastor says to be taken with a grain
of salt. Petra, "God says," "I am..." "You
aren't..." come to mind.
Always pay attention to the spinning in your head and the pain in
your stomach. Your stomach is telling you the truth. Your head is lying
to you.
Always be your authentic self before you allow a book, booklet,
Church or its leadership to hijack your mind
Always stay on your own journey and not that of others unless you
really chose wisely to do so and make them part of your journey not you giving
up yours for theirs.
No God will be angry with your if you adhere to the above
Only men will be angry with you if you adhere to the above
If you allow others to do your thinking for you...
If you allow others to filter your life through their eyes
If you are motivated by fear, guilt and shame in these matters...
I will be mad at you as will most of the people you love and who
love you.
=====================
Debate Me Mr. Pack
A Proposal Part II
Since the Restored
Church of God has the real truth I merely have the present truth, it should be
no problem for us to debate these things like adults who share the same
WCG/Minister experience. The only difference between us is that you have
gone on to reinvent WCG after the passing of HWA and all that followed,
and I have not. We share the same education and I totally understand why
you teach as you do. I know how you think about the Bible and
where you go to prove it.
So, how about a
debate? Call it a discussion or a chat if you wish. I have nothing
to prove except that there is much much more accurate information beyond the
boundries of the Restored Church of God and most Churches of God
actually. I also enjoy showing the rancor between those who "all
spoke the same thing," was quite remarkable as well as the disharmony of
the Gospels. We both sat through that Harmony of the Gospels of the Class
with RCM so this can be a lot of fun. Perhaps we could invite him to
moderate since we both were "his students" and he often seems puzzled
as to why we would have strayed from his clear teachings .
So, and I have to
head out the door as I have a couple clients, how about that debate?
I'll give you a heads up
on topics if you like.
Is Genesis 1-11 Literally True
Sabbath Origins
Who really wrote the Books of Moses
Is Daniel Prophecy or History Backwards
What's With Revelation?
How Soon is "Soon"
The Harmony of the Gospels
Who Was Paul
Just What do You Mean Midrash
Did Jesus mean to start a church
Can humans all speak the same thing
Is it OK to disagree with the Church/Minister
Was Paul a False Prophet About Jesus Coming
Failed OT Prophecies
Failed NT Prophecies
Evolution or Creation
Six Thousand Years or 13.77 Million
Were Adam and Eve Real People
The Purpose of Genesis 1-3
Who is Elohim anyway
The Ten Commandments
What Were the Two Trees Really
and so on....
You are more than
welcome to come up with your own list of things you'd enjoy discussing.
I'm pretty easy going about this and we can chat about anything you like as
long as we stick to the Bible and the real truth.
Warm regards
Den
There's a Seeker Born Every Minute
"All I wanted, in the world, was to be a catholic priest.
Live in a monastery, pray, serve God."
Joe Peshi-JFK
Those words, spoken as a
line in a movie, left me sitting in the theatre with tears welling up in my eyes. Whoa..."where
is this coming from?" I asked myself. While I was not interested in
being a Catholic Priest or living in a monastery, I knew what he meant so thus
the tears. I sat there thinking , "Yeah, that's all I wanted when I
came into the Worldwide Church of God." I as a weird kid and
theology and all things God had a hold on me way back. I used to listen
to The Back to the Bible Hour on my transistor radio lying in bed at
night. I remember getting a little offended in college when some WCG
Evangelist cracked that it was called that because they had their backs to the
Bible. I have since learned that even the Bible has its back to itself at
times...
I was 14 when I heard my
first Sabbath sermon in Boise, Idaho and it was on astronomy. Whoa..a
church that knew about astronomy. My Presbyterian one didn't so
much. I was hooked and I devoured everything WCG had from age 14 to 18
and then went to College. The rest is history as they say...
I was and always will be
a "seeker."
Sometimes I get asked
why I stayed so long in WCG. First of all transitions are messy in my
experience. Secondly...I thought that was where I was supposed to
be. After all, I had prayed my heart out to end up where I could best be
what I wanted to be, a pastor, and nothing stopped me from going to
WCG/AC. I snuck my college application out under my parka so my parents
wouldn't catch me applying. I had to be there and, while I wish someone
had talked me out of it, I was not going to be talked out of it.
One other pressure, at least subconsciously was from something my dad said when
I called him to tell him I was going into the ministry and being sent to
Minneapolis after graduation. He got kinda quiet on the phone and I asked
him if he was alright? He said, I'll send you a letter. In that
letter he told me he had forgotten all about a prayer he made before I was born
and it hit him when I called. He said he prayed that if I was to be a
son (I was on the way) , and healthy, "You can have him
God." You see my older brother and first born son to my dad
was and is blind, deaf and cannot speak. He has been institutionalized
all his life. So dad made a Diehl, I mean a deal with God and when I called it
kinda got to him. Then it kinda got to me and staying in WCG even when
painful and chaotic still seemed a God thing until it didn't. I'm not
sure if I let any Deity down, but I didn't want to let my dad down.
But I, as most I knew in
both the ministry and among the membership were seekers and it seemed more correct
and Biblical and that was what we were seeking. I have found that the
most sincere become your worst enemy when they feel betrayed or hurt. It
is the most sincere, who feel betrayed and hurt, who probably rail the
most on this blog. If I had to choose, I'd still choose a church more
like the old WCG, more Jewish in background than gentile but I would not allow
the writings of Paul to get in. Paul took the early Jewish Christian
Church , turned it inside out , including it's own scriptures, and made Abraham
the father of uncircumcision if you can imagine that. Nice trick but it
evidently didn't fool the Peter, James and John characters in the NT. I
don't think it fooled the Ephesian Church either in Revelation, but I
spare you.
I miss church but I
don't miss sermons. I don't feel all that safe these days but I can't un
ring the bells I have rung. You really can't go home again it
seems. I am still touched by the story of the Prodigal Son but I don't
know anyone like the dad in that parable and I really don't even know where
home is to go home to.
But I, like many of you
reading this, are seekers. I want to know how spirituality works and how
religion gets in the way. I want to know the good science of archaeology,
paleontology, astronomy and quantum physics. Very amazing stuff. I
see where some feel the whole ball game is just a hologram and some force or
creator seems to have put us in the game to learn. It's like we actually
are the SIMS. I finally figured out that has to stand for
simulations. I like the implications of "If a tree falls in the
forest and there is no one there to see it, does it make a sound?" I
always thought that was a cute joke of some kind I did not get. Now I
know the answer is literally "NO! It does not make a sound. It
makes vibrations which if not heard by a brain do not translate into
sound." Excellent! This means the world outside our
heads is totally silent! Ask me about light and photons someday....
:)
But again...we're all
seekers and it's not nice to sucker a sincere seeker, which of course we
have all experienced with the Armstrong/Tkach phenomenon. While in hind
site, I had shit for brains...back then I knew I had found something more true
than the box into which I was born. And then, I got pushed out of that
one too. I had to be pushed because historically I tend to stick around
way too long anyway.
Lots of changes and
change and I have never gotten along. My dear mom of 95 is slipping away
and doesn't know me anymore much and my dad is not far behind. He's 97
and a man few men could ever be like . I will miss them both as is
normal I suspect when that time comes in life to move along.
Buddhism hits it on the head with impermanence and the suffering that clinging
and grasping can cause a person. Letting things be as they are is just
good mental health for humans. Others hit the nail on the head with
"all negativity is just some form of non-acceptance."
But I, as I expect of
most of you as well, will always be a seeker. There is one born every
minute!
"All I wanted, in the world, was to be a catholic priest.
Live in a monastery, pray, serve God."
Joe Peshi-JFK
Joe! You Seeker punched me!
Thanks for listening...
"I'm Calling a Fast."
Evidently Dave Pack,
Apostle for the Restored Church of God, is in a bit of a bind. Pledges
pledged aren't manifesting as pledged. This is a common occurrence when
fundraising is based on pledges because at the time the emotion of the call and
the desire to participate are often bigger than the reality of the bank
account. Both Jerry Lewis and NPR understand this well.
I would imagine
Dave has a double problem in that a couple years ago everyone was bullied to
"send it in" and you can only do that once. Gee, I wish I could
have an income anytime I just said "send it in." I recall
a command of sorts that said, "And I don't just mean a little. I
mean ten thousand , twenty thousand , a hundred
thousand..." Whew... And now evidently he needs
more because of more non-accountability decisions where bucks are
needed. Solution: Fast and pray.
Most who read this site
are well aware of the call to fast and pray during real or imagined emergencies
in "the work." In hind site, the real reason, even if
leadership did not know it, was to serve as a distraction to questions about
what might be going on and suggestions that rather than push the spiritual
burden onto the members and the Deity, one might spend less, change the plan or
simply repent of the foolishness of whatever was going on now. Fasting
seemed the tool of congregational distraction and leadership frustration with
what to do about any number of things that were out of leadership control.
Personally, I never
liked fasting and was not even a big fan of the Day of Atonement. I never
noticed any great changes or interventions whether I fasted or not. I
often wondered, especially now in the day of the Hubbell Telescope, just what
am I trying to do? Is there a God wanting to see me squirm in
hunger. Is this Deity impressed with me not eating and more inclined to
listen and answer with a big "YES!"? If so, what
kind of Deity does that and why? Am I coercing him by my act of not eating
for a relatively short time? Could I accomplish as much if I didn't take
a bath for a week or held my breath until I passed out in prayer?
Frankly I never got
it (please don't say, "and that is why you got no answer) and while
I'm sure I gave sermons on it, I'm not sure I ever believed it. I did
read what the Bible said about it, why one does it and what to expect, but
never saw much difference in myself or the Church for actually doing what it
said. It was much like "Ask whatever you will in my name and I
will give it to you." While pretty straight forward, it always came
with lots of disclaimers and conditions like, "well you have to ask
within God's will." "You are asking amiss."
"God did answer and the answer was 'no'." "Your
ways are not God's ways," and so forth. You simply could
not win. By the time you fulfilled and recognized all the disclaimers the
scripture should have read "Ask whatever you will and if you have a great
attitude, if it is good for you, if you don't ask amiss and if you are within my
will do it, I will maybe do it, but probably not."
Anyway, back to
fasting. I believe that calling a fast in this modern day an age is a
diversion used too often by the COGs to draw attention and responsibility away
from the leadership who finds itself in a jam. If the income is down we
fast which as far as I can tell does not coerce the Deity into sending more but
does coerce the flock, through guilt, to sacrifice more because after all, they
are fasting. Since God owns the cattle on a thousand hills could we not
just as much "ask what we will" and ask him to sell some and
"send it in" to the True Church we could continue to preach the
Gospel (and pay our salaries)? Combine both those concepts and skip the
fasting one.
In my actual experience,
I don't see where fasting does as advertised. Just as I don't see how
"prove me now herewith and see if I don't open the windows of heaven for
you" by tithing. I guess I'd have to throw in, "Is any sick
among you? Let him call for the elders of the church ....and the sick shall be
made well." Again, can't skip the oil thing and "ask whatever
we will"? This is serious stuff and if you won't answer this
one, what do you answer with "yes...I will send it by noon."
All this rather lines up
with the concept that "without the shedding of blood, there is NO
FORGIVENESS of sin." Really? Why not? Why can't I ask
whatever I will, such as "please forgive me," and skip the mess and
the middlemen. Was that concept concocted by Priests who made their
living off blood shedding and sacrifices? I am suspicious. Let's
face it, if some Old Testament character way ahead of his or her time could
convince the crowds that they didn't have to buy expensive animals and take
hundreds of hours a year to get them killed and drained for their sins, the
Temple and Priesthood would be out of business, and I do mean business.
Well, this is not a big
topic. We all know what the Bible says about it but I am looking back at
the fruits of it all and perhaps the real motives of those that command others
to follow them in a fast for whatever. It seems something done to control
the mind of the faithful, wear them down a bit, guilt them a lot and distract
them from their leadership making the hard decisions to back down from glorious
and expensive ideas about how they want to do their work.
Instead of fasting for
income and because the building fund pledges or the income or the problems of
the church are huge, why not, members, try this.
Minister/Leader"I want to build a college."
Member"No, its too expensive and stupid idea. Few will come and who is going to pay for all this and run it when you croak?"Minister/Leader"I want to expand our printing and the coverage of my wonderful telecast to all the world."Member"That's fine when you have inspired the ones you have already to send in enough to take the next step but please don't ask us for any more money. We did send it in last time."Minister/Leader"We want to pick up and mover our headquarters to another state."Member"Screw that!"
I think we get the
point. Money is the grease that lubes the wheel of everyone's
"work." It is not prayer. It is not fasting to coerce the
Deity or show it how humble one is so please "send it in from on
high." It is money and you can't get money out of a turnip as they
say, but for some reason Ministers and especially the self appointed Apostles
and Prophets, Witnesses and Watchers are more bold about it.
Just think how your
money bought Ron Weinland and Laura big houses, fancy cars, gold, diamonds and
world tours to speak to a few folk and call it all "Church."
You really have to not have a conscience to do that and we know what that's a
definition of.
So, yet another fast is
called by yet another Guru who needs, not more faith, hope or love, but
money. I don't know or not if Dave Pack can pull off the College
thing. I do know he is not big enough to need it. I can't imagine
who would waste their time and money on attending if they did their homework on
a good theological background check. What kind of God Haunted and brain
dead kids would go? I think we are past the time where parents get to
pick the college for the kids but maybe not.
In the Church of God,
calling a fast, IMHO, is a diversion from facing realities and addressing
them. They are usually called to address them long after they should have
first been addressed for then one would not be fasting. Fasts are called
because the leadership of either a few or just the one is nervous about money
and paying the bills they/he ring up without oversight or accountability.
This my experience as a
member and a minister having soaked for decades in these fasts and pleas
appearing to follow Biblical injunctions for such times as these, but in fact,
consciously or unconsciously using it to divert from Church issues that should
have been better handled in first place and way back when some genius thought
them up.
Thoughts?
====================
Occam's Razor
"If you have two theories that both explain
the observed facts, then you should use the simplest until more evidence comes
along"
"The simplest explanation for some
phenomenon is more likely to be accurate than more complicated
explanations."
"If you have two equally likely solutions to
a problem, choose the simplest."
"The explanation requiring the fewest
assumptions is most likely to be correct."
. . .or in the only form that takes its own
advice. . .
"Keep things simple!"
"Keep things simple!"
The other day the owner of where I work came
in distressed over losing the corporate check book. He asked if I had seen
him come in with it. No, I had not. I asked if he had it when he was
home and got in the car. He said he thought he had but must be mistaken
because he looked in the car too. I said to go back to the car where he'd
probably find it. He did .......and he did. Occam's
Razor! That is where it had to be and simplest place to look.
I misplaced a key to a locker at work last
week and started the usual, "someone stole the key..blah blah." I caught
myself and went back to Occam. I had the key in my hand. I just got
back from the restroom. I washed my hands and threw the paper towel into
the newly emptied trash can. "It's in the trash can,"
I realized. It was. I had thrown it out with the paper
towel. Thank you Occam.
In the COG we have been and continue to be
supplied with any number of interesting people who simply can't stand not
rising to some lofty position in the spirit and power of Elijah, John the
Baptist or Herbert Armstrong. We have the antics of those that since they
have no other person willing or able to ordain them because they are their own
Church leader, have to proof text and twist history long past or just
past their way through the Bible and come up with...."and yes brethren...I
am an Apostle." They don't call it "His-story" for nothing.
Others, pulling the same stunts in the
privacy of their self important minds come up with other titles for
themselves. One is "That Prophet," and two others are the Two Witnesses
who better hurry and make good on it because there are ten more waiting in the
wings to be the Two. But they just tell everyone this is who they are or
the office they hold AND that it was given by GOD of all things, and evidently
thousands believe them!!!
Of
late, we have been somewhat taken back by
Bob Thiel's self ordination and misapplication of having hands being
laid on
him, being given a "double portion" whatever that meant to him and
coming
into home plate a Prophet. Really? It's that
easy? I have watched his prophetic ministry videos several times and,
not to be unkind but...really? I have read his rationale for
getting to be the Lone Ranger Prophet for the age here and again can
only come
up with...really? Such complicated stuff and the kind of self
promotion that the faithful or brain dead, whichever one it really is
according to Occam...(guess?), simply get to accept without question it
seems. Actually COG members never seem to question much. That button
has been disconnected evidently long ago.
Would it not be hilarious if a COG member
after just being told "I am an Apostle" said "Oh no you
aren't!!"
I only know of one time when this
happened. It was after THE tape sermon where Joe Tkach announced "the
Changes." Mostly, Sabbath was out if need be etc. In one local
congregation a rather average , good old boy type was called on to lead the
final song. He said...and I wish I had been there, "Well if that
ain't the biggest load of shit you ever heard! Let's all take our hymnals,
stand and sing to the REAL God!" LOL, I fell out hearing that
from a relative who was there and think the boy should get a medal.
A current example of the Razor might be
whatever the heck is going on in the mind of Manti Teo and the tale of his poor
not dead not girlfriend. This evidently mythological tale that he has
spun is so complicated I won't repeat it but when it is all said and done, what
will Occam's Razor say? Probably he made it all, may have some mental
problems and can't explain what he was thinking when he did that. That of
course will come until all the convoluted tales fall
apart.
In the same way, I am sure Lance
Armstrong had amazing explanations for his amazing performance but from the git
go, Occam would have simply said, "He's doping." Pretty simple
actually. It also would have been the correct answer long
ago.
So, let's get back to the Apostles, Watchers,
Evangelists, Prophets and Witnesses of the Church of God. I won't tell you
what I think is the simplest answer for me. You decide which is for
you.
While a pretty pared down version of Occam's
Razor says, "the simplest explanation is usually the most correct," let's go
with that as it is the simplest.
1. Dave Pack is truly the only God Ordained Apostle in this age and RCG is the one true Church on earth.
1a. Dave Pack made up a prooftexting sermon spread over four hours to solve some problems of possible Evangelists defecting to him and as a Pastor "rank" guy had to have more Bible umpf. Dave is probably not who he thinks he is and RCG is just one more example of a minister not wanting and never able to work for or under anyone else.
2. Ron Weinland is truly, along with his wife, one of the Two Witnesses of Revelation no matter what's going on.
2a. Ron had deluded himself and God probably has not chosen him for a such a time as this and can't wait around for him to get out of prison.
3. Gerald Flurry is truly that Prophet spoken of in Malachi and heads up the one true remnant of the Church of God which is the Philadelphian in nature and calling.
3a. Gerald Flurry is kidding himself, is NOT the prophet spoken of in the Bible and has no clue what brotherly love is if you go by the horror stories.
4. E.W. King is the reincarnation of the one true WCG and Herbert Armstrong still lives.
4b. E.W. King is bonkers.
5. Dr. Robert Thiel has been set apart as a prophet because when anointed for a minor malady noticed the unsuspecting and sincere minister mentioned a "double portion." This was then taken as the sign he was called to be a Prophet and his rejection by the Living Church of God proves he is correct and what he noticed about LCG getting off track is true.
5a. Dr. Robert Thiel is delusional, a little weird and just another misguided person who is a little God haunted and overly Bible soaked. He's not a prophet and if he doesn't do better in his presentations probably won't even make one.
I think we get the point. I'll spare
you using Occam's Razor to question fantastic stories in the Bible that just
don't ring true much as Lance Armstrong's or Manti Teo's don't.
We could ask, which is easier to
believe...Children who growl, gnash, writhe and throw themselves often in the
fire are possessed by a wicked spirit in high places...or....they had an
epileptic episode which no one could explain medically?
We could ask which is easier to
believe.. The Old Testament accurately predicts the very things that
happened in the New Testament. Or...The writers of the New Testament used
the Old Testament to write the stories which is why they seem so accurate.
We could ask, and some do, was Jesus
Lord, Liar, Lunatic or Legend? I spare you.
We could ask, "Which is more logical?
The New Testament Gospels, Epistles and Letters that talk as if soon really
meant soon and the day being at hand really meant their day was at hand...and
goofed. Or...The NT scriptures that talk about Jesus coming as soon are
dual and those days were only a type for our day which really is the final soon
2000 years later."?
We could use Occam's Razor to ask if the Book
of Revelation, upon which the COG's base their entire existence was written to
show "things which must shortly come to pass," for the "them" of their time
, OR...is really for us today because Jesus didn't really mean those
listening to him then should be taken for the generation that
shall not pass until the Son of Man appears.
We can even go for the details with Occam's
Razor and ask if we really think Roman guards fell asleep at the tomb so
disciples can steal the body and so that's the excuse why Jesus body is
gone. Or we can think, "The Roman's would execute any soldiers that
fell asleep on guard to prevent this with such a famous rebel and would not
really do or say something so stupid.
Anyway,
6. I and the very small number of actual members of my Schism, Splinter or Sliver COG are the only true Christians following the only true ministers with the only true explanation and interpretation of scripture on earth today.
6a. I may be kidding myself and missing out on many wonderful opportunities to explore things my current Apostle, Prophet or Witness would not approve of.
7. All these men will live to see Jesus Second Coming and be proven right7a. All these men will die in time and the beat will go on.
"The simplest explanation for some
phenomenon is more likely to be accurate than more complicated
explanations."
DennisCDiehl@aol.com
===================
The Rest of the Story....Um...NO
Well actually there
rarely is the rest of the story in some of the more controversial accounts in
the New Testament of Church events.
I've recently been
reminded of the Apostle Paul's admission that he didn't always do the right
thing and in fact could not do the right things so he didn't. (Romans
7) He hems and haws around making up a convoluted explanation of how , no
matter, it is not really him that is doing it. It is sin in him and sin
that has a hold of him that does it. Really? Ok, great.
But that's where the story ends. We never hear if anyone asked him to
elaborate on just exactly what his sins and struggles were. Did no one
ask "So Paul, since you are the Apostle and we are to hang on your every
word and perspective, just what exactly is it that you do that you should not
do? And what is it that you should do that you can't do? We'd like
a list."
Of course, Paul just
ends with a big oh well...Jesus took care of all this so no more questions
please. I bet lots of people asked him or others just what exactly
he was getting at and it probably did affect their confidence in him. I
mean this is the same Paul that is bouncing people out of the congregation in I
Corinthians 5-7 and making up lots of rules for who you can and who you can't
hang around or even eat with. But Paul never went on to say, "And
you can't eat with me either because I can't do any better than they do."
It's a rather confusing
picture. After Paul turns the one poor soul over to Satan for the
destruction of the flesh, we don't know if the guy died and if he did , did he
have any family that blamed Paul for being a bit too hard on the guy.
Later Paul lightens up a bit and encourages the Church (maybe after Paul got a
dressing down for being such a hard ass,) to not let this guy or someone
else be overtaken with too much sorrow, but hey, letting Satan take you out can
do that to a guy. Seems no one got to Judas in time for betraying the
Gospel Jesus but managed to get to Peter for denying him. Whew....gotta
save those Peters.
(aside: Darn....the
Mormon guys were headed right for my door and turned around...)
Paul had a way of
telling you stuff without really telling you stuff. Recall he went to the
third heaven but couldn't share the journey with us. He had a thorn in
the flesh, but could not tell us exactly what it was. Did bad things but
don't ask. Didn't do the right things, but again don't ask.
I bet lots of folk asked
Paul lots of questions but we don't know the end of the story save for Paul
evidently won out. We don't even know exactly when or why Paul was
executed in Rome. Well I bet lots knew but perhaps the real reason was
more embarrassing than inspiring. We'll never know. We didn't get
to write the story.
My favorite is the story
of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts . Simply stated. Two members said
they would give the money from the sale of their property to the
"Church." When it sold, they held back and gave less.
Peter the Great gets really angry and "zap" you're both dead.
Let that be a lesson to the church. Now...most of you realize I think
this fairytale was a story meant to tell Paul and Luke's followers to ignore
"Peter the Great." Just as these two said they would do one
thing and did another and thus died, so Peter said he'd do one thing, never
leave Jesus, and did another, denied him. Message: Don't follow
Peter.
But let's assume it's a
real story and Peter really did strike these generous folk dead for holding
back. Do Roman's let you kill church members and never ask what is going
on? Do relatives who notice that mother, father, uncle, aunt, niece ,
nephew, grandma or grandpa went to church but were never seen again ask
questions? I'd think so! Would not news get out of murder in the
Church? Would not some members leave because "well that was a bit
extreme!?" I'd think so! But alas, we'd never know. The
left over members just took the warning and probably turned in all their stuff
to the church as requested.
In Acts 15 Mark and Paul
have a falling out. Paul won't have anything to do with him for past
offenses or perhaps common senses that Paul didn't like. You know..like
trying to tell Dave Pack maybe it's not a good idea to reinvent Ambassador
College in the Winter spending millions we don't have on a place few will come
to. Other places say the problem was so bad that Paul didn't ever
want anything to do with Mark, well at least not until Paul needed him for
something at the end of his life. But what was the problem?
Dunno!! That part is not included. It never is when someone has to
win and someone has to lose. Paul was not the kind who ever lost.
Saul/Paul says he
oversaw the death and persecution of people in Jerusalem. Did anyone ever
come after the man when they found out he was now one of them? Who didn't
believe it? What were the jokes about Paul the Apostle Now?
Dunno. The losers don't write the story.
You can take this
principle of there never being the rest or the other side of the story back to
the OT as well. Moses kills an Egyptian...so what. Hey, where
is my dad? So what. Isaac almost gets his throat cut
like a cow in sacrifice by DAD! How did that set with him over the
years? How did being saved just in the nick of time affect his religious
views of YHVH? Did he go on mountain vacations with DAD
anymore? Did he trust DAD when asked to take a little walk with me
son? How did, "your father did what!!!!?" affect Sarah the
mom?
Anyone get offended at
God for zapping Lot's wife for looking back at what was going on or how about
how she may have felt when old Lot offered up her daughters to the crowd to be
raped but please don't hurt my visitors? I'd think dinner that night
could have been a bit tense. We' don't know do we. Fairy tales are
like that.
I'm sure you can think
of dozens of stories where we know what happened but we don't know the fall out
and there had to be fall out big time.
And so it is
today. Humiliate someone just enough to look righteous but leave lots out
. Mark and embarrass people just enough to come out on top and show your
authority, but show no real love and cover the damn thing up with the love so
often professed. A man should talk about his own failings and not let
others dictate the terms.
People with normal human
failings can be pushed by Churches, scripture and the pristine leader types
over the edge in despair. Shunning or marking, disfellowshipping or
"making an example of" can get someone killed or make the terrible
person that is so different from the righteous ones end their lives in shame
and guilt. Guilt is "I did a bad thing," while shame is "I
am a bad person?" Both are fairly useless emotions and
tools.
I think I am finally
ready to break out and start my own Church of God. I have resisted for
years but I think I have found my niche.
I would like to announce
the beginning of a new Church of God. Church of God of the Exiled,
Marked, Shunned, Marginalized and Thrown Away.
COGEMSMTA for short.
Ok, that's not short.
Qualifications:
Your sins must be great
You must feel
defective.
However, Your spirit
must not be broken though tossed and torn a bit (I feel a song coming on)
Your experience must
have left you totally on the outs with the righteous and quite a bit with
yourself
You must have suffered
depression, anxiety and some mental disturbances for real wondering
or knowing you have been turned over to Satan and that God loves you with
a kind of hatred according to the minister, elders, deacons and loyal members
who wish you no ill will and hope you repent.
You must still be a
seeker of what's real and true.
No tithing, no church
services, no hymns, no gurus, no need to save the world or preach until the
incomes...I mean end comes.
You must be yourself
warts and all
You can only call me
Dennis and we only talk here DennisCDiehl@aol.com or by phone
if you want. :)
Send for the free
booklets...ok, we'll we can just talk..
"Being Authentic is
Good Mental Health"
"I Know You Are But
What Am I"
"Forgiving Oneself
First"
(with more to follow)
And I don't care how
badly you feel, how far you have "fallen", how thrown under a bus you
were or how creative a sinner you became. (All those guys that hurt you
think and do all the same things. http://ezinearticles.com/?Everyone-Wears-Masks---Your-Pastor-and-Priest,-Your-Mom,-Dad,-Family,-and-YOU!&id=168861
Let's finish the stories
and finish them well!
Welcome to the COGEMSMTA
Don't send nuttin' in!!!
:)
2 comments:
Some ministers actually have questioned Dave Pack. They, of course, were all let go, I mean, they quit, went of into goofy ideas, started own church, etc.
If you really think that you have 3 to 5 years left before you go to the "place of safety," then do what a few people did in WCG in the 70's, take out a big loan and buy yourself a big house, boat, car, etc. and have small payments with a balloon payoff in 6 years.
P.S. - After doing this get on your knees and pray "they kingdom come before my balloon payment is due."
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