Friday, October 11, 2013

David C Pack Says He Is Not Stupid Enough To Set Another Date - Kind Of.....

No New Date

None of this new understanding speaks to when the prophecy will be fulfilled. I will certainly never repeat such a mistake. Those who believe the prophecy and are waiting on God will understand how important these elements are once it is fulfilled. Remember, you can wait in God’s Church for this fulfillment—or outside. It has been inspiring to see how many have come with us beginning in the summer and continuing to present. They know the prophecy is correct and the other two prophecies that quickly FOLLOW are drawing closer daily. 
 Notice how Dave attempts to prove his church is growing by stating how much attendance was at his feast sites.  While they might have church hopped to one of Dave's sites, they did not join up.  If they all had,  Dave would be gloating about it.
The number of new people keeping the Feast with us at Headquarters this year was 19%. The number keeping the Feast in Lake Placid, New York, this year was 22%. The number keeping it with us in Destin, Florida, this year was 16%. The number in Branson, Missouri, was 27% and the number in Salt Lake City, Utah, was 29%.

David C Pack: My 'god' Is Going To "...take the splinter assets, crush their income, dismantle their governments, destroy all their production and disperse their people—everyone."

The definition of “desolate” from Merriam Webster’s is: “Devoid of inhabitants and visitors…showing the effects of abandonment and neglect, dilapidated, barren, lifeless, devoid of warmth, comfort or hope.” Webster’s definition of “waste” is: “a barren region, uncultivated, a broad and empty expanse.” The context of the categories described in Haggai 1:11 reveal that God is going to destroy everything in the splinters. Nothing and no one will be left. He is going to take the splinter assets, crush their income, dismantle their governments, destroy all their production and disperse their people—everyone. Think “barren” and “devoid of inhabitants and visitors.” God’s choice of word means the splinter “houses” will be uninhabited. And He will make it clear to the remnant where they should go.

Apparently the splinter group leaders will not learn their lessons and will make one final attempt to thwart Dave in his great reunification. The Bible foretells this, at least in Dave's delusional mind.

Remember that the plagues on Egypt did not cause Pharaoh to let ancient Israel go. God hardened Pharaoh and deliberately made sure that He could bring the plagues in sequence to work out His divine purpose. We may expect some kind of non-literal parallel to occur today. And no one knows exactly how long such “plagues” will last, but certain clues indicate they will not be long, perhaps a few months as they did when Israel left Egypt.

David C Pack: Here Are The Three Phases of Destruction That Will Happen To ALL of the Splinter Groups

Stage 1:

Previous announcements have outlined the destruction that God will bring on the splinter “houses.” We originally thought He would desolate the “houses” in two phases. It is now clear from Haggai—and this will be impossible to misunderstand when you see it—that there are three phases of destruction coming that are so complete they leave nothing remaining.

Referenced earlier, the first phase of punishment has been occurring for the last 21 years and is described in Haggai 1:6: “You have sown much, and bring in little; you eat, but you have not enough; you drink, but you are not filled with drink; you clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earns wages earns wages to put it into a bag with holes.”

Haggai 2:16 is God recounting the same thing to the remnant—that they never got the expected return on investment they hoped for over more than two decades: “Since those days were, when one came to an heap of twenty measures, there were but ten: when one came to the pressfat for to draw out fifty vessels out of the press, there were but twenty.” See the parallel!

Apparently Dave's stupid angry god has been punishing the true church for the last 1,900 years, because they have NEVER gotten it right!
Haggai 1:6 describes God’s long ongoing punishment on His people due to their actions. When brethren and ministers began forming their own houses, God cut them off from both His Holy Spirit and His blessings. Their “works” never produced the expected return on investment because they were cut off from these things. Verse 10 adds “Therefore the heaven over you is stayed from dew [blessings], and the earth is stayed from her fruit [of the Holy Spirit].”
 Dave is still pissed that the ministers in all the various COG's refuse to follow him.

This next phase is God intensifying His punishment—turning up the heat—in the face of the group’s continuing resistance to returning to His Church. What He brings to bear is SERIOUS. (We will see in a moment how serious.) Despite God bringing awful punishment on their houses, these ministers still did not repent and “turn to” God. Haggai 2:17 forms an instructive look-back to ministers who grew weak and confused for decades. God requires them to come to grips with how their congregations and organizations fell into the horrible mess that resulted. His warning is so that history will not repeat itself. Much is at stake for these ministers in what is everyone’s last chance.

This is everyone's LAST chance?  Really?  How incredibly stupid that is. Dave's god is too impotent to do such a thing.

Mildew and storms will soon start devastating the various COG's:

God says in effect that He will bring to nothing the occupation, transactions, products and business of these “houses.” This describes the second phase of punishment, when He begins breaking things up in the splinters with what could be thought of as “plagues.” (Think of the period of parallel with actions God had to use to bring Israel out of ancient Egypt.) Little things start going wrong!
—contracts, actions, transactions, business, decisions, etc.—as God smites the remnant’s “labors” with what He calls blasting, mildew (fear) and hail. At some point in the future, thousands of brethren will begin wondering, “What is going on? What is wrong?”

Dave thinks his god is essentially going to scare the shit out of COG members:

God will send FEAR into these groups in an attempt to WAKE THEM UP. The kinds of things God will do will leave people pale with fear. GET THIS because conditions will eventually grow worse, then much worse. Think of it through the following analogy. God’s Church will be on an elevator going up, while the splinters are passing us on one going down.

Then Dave's god will have one final fit of fury directed at the splinters:

The word for “labor” here is different from the word for “labors” in Haggai 2:17. God is very careful with the words He uses. He tells us “every” one is “pure” (Prov. 30:5) and “purified seven times” (Psa. 12:6). “Labor” is a stronger word in Haggai 1:11, and means “toil, your work, produce, property, your business, labor.” In other words, God desolates EVERYTHING—not just actions, transactions or little deeds. Haggai 1:11 is God’s third wave of punishment on the splinters. This is when God destroys EVERY element of the splinters. No wonder the people in verse 12 fear before God. 

Dennis Muses on How To Recover from Stupid in the RCG

A Short Lesson in Davidic Theology and Prophecy Coming Alive Sorta...
See You in the Spring

David C Pack: The Great Church Reunification Can Be Accomplished Cheaper At Passover Than The Feast Time

We wrestled for months over our August 31 date.

I guess even with the company of 16 great accomplished theologians like Dave had in his presence they still could not come up with the right date.  So why believe them now?

It all boils down to money.  The great reunification will not need to happen where church members will be wasting Dave's money on hotel rooms for a feast site.  Now they can join Dave and turn that money over to him.  Slick move Dave!

We can conclude that the Haggai prophecy was always speaking of a SPRING event, NOT one in the fall of the year—the period preceding Passover, NOT the one preceding the Fall Holy Days and the Feast of Tabernacles. And also ask: how much more sense does it make that the Church will be reunited a little before the easier-to-assemble-together time of Passover and the Days of Unleavened Bread versus reunification just two-and-a-half weeks before going to completely different Feast sites for eight days when people would have long before made plans and given deposits to attend somewhere else? We wrestled at our Headquarters for months with how this would work, including the Church being reunited on a Friday and then having to turn around and keep the Sabbath together in hundreds of new places just one day later. We knew God would defeat the confusion, but we recognized that additional miracles would have to happen in the wake of the great ones that brought His people back together for this to occur smoothly.

David C Pack: COG Members Will Have A Double Self Examination Prior To Passover - For Their Sins and Whether They Should Join My Church

Israel left Egypt on the first Holy Day after the Night to Be Much Observed. Haggai’s name (“My [God’s] Feast”) now takes on more meaning as relating to the spring Holy Day season—NOT the Feast of Tabernacles, as we previously thought. The parallel of Israel’s departure from ancient Egypt in spring is the THIRD proof of God’s Plan for a springtime fulfillment.

The FOURTH proof that God has the spring in mind is that twice in Haggai He commands His people to “Consider your ways.” This perfectly parallels the annual period of self-examination that every Christian is to carry out prior to Passover. It makes complete sense that God would be telling His people to “consider” their lives and conduct during the time leading up to Passover. Different from physical Israel leaving literal Egypt on the first day of Unleavened Bread, it appears that God’s people (spiritual Israel) may leave spiritual Egypt (the splinters, who are part of the Egypt of this world) before the Passover by some short period. We will learn at the time of fulfillment the exact number of days before Passover that God has in mind.

David C Pack; Will I Be Betrayed Like Jesus For 30 Pieces of Silver?

The chief narcissist writes:

The seventh and final date that God lists is found in Zechariah 7:1—and is about 21 months later, nine months into Darius’ fourth year of reign. It spans the rest of the book through Christ’s Coming and into the Millennium. Of course, these eight amazing prophetic chapters contain the crucial chapter 11 that speaks so powerfully to how God plans to reunify His flock. A SECOND proof (or indicator) that the prophecy is speaking in a springtime context is that the betrayal of Christ for 30 pieces of silver is found smack in the middle of chapter 11. Not a huge point of and by itself, verses 12-13 of Zechariah 11 certainly fit a time just before the Passover—when Judas betrayed Christ. I do not know if any kind of modern betrayal within God’s Church will form a parallel. No one could. We will see.

David C Pack: Will The Great COG Reunification Happen On April 1?

Dave writes:

The next four dates are all mentioned in Haggai, and are according to the civil Persian calendar based on Darius’ reign. The reader will have to recall all that has been explained about the crucial meanings of each of these dates. For now, we are merely clarifying when they would be in our calendar—the general time of year that God had in mind.

Haggai 1:1 records the third overall date—the first day of the sixth month. This would be early March our time.

The fourth date is in Haggai 1:15—the 24th day of the sixth month. It describes the people coming to work in God’s House. Again, this would be about April 1 in our calendar.

The fifth date is in Haggai 2:1—the 21st day of the seventh month—and would be late in April. We originally thought this was the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles, but it would be more like right after Passover.

The sixth date is in Haggai 2:10—the 24th day of the ninth month—and continues through Haggai 2. This would be the equivalent of late July.

How convenient.  The great reunification is an April Fool's joke!

David C Pack: The Great Church of God Reunification Will Happen Pre-Passover

David C Pack:  I was such a stupid idiot to assume the date was late summer/early fall.

The Jews began building Zerubbabel’s Temple one-and-a-half years into Darius’ reign, in the spring of 519 BC on the 24th day of the sixth month—about April 1 in our calendar. Further proof is that EVERY biblical and historical source states that it took four years to build this Temple. No one disputes this. ALL these sources recognize that the work of building was completed in early March 515 BC—or what would be five-and-a-half years into Darius’ reign. This is important. Notice what the book of Ezra records: “The elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it [the temple], according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia. And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king” (6:14-15). The third of Adar would generally correspond with our early March.

This means the temple in Haggai 1:1 is referencing an event in the spring of the year, not late summer or fall. This is the FIRST proof that the prophecy applies to the spring, not the fall. This does not mean we know the exact timing of the prophecy’s fulfillment—either the exact day (or the year) in the spring. But there are THREE more powerful proofs/indicators that the prophecy is fulfilled in the spring not the fall. These immediately “sprang out of the woodwork” the moment we realized the season that God had in mind to fulfill Haggai—PRE-PASSOVER.

David C Pack: I was Wrong Because I Used The The Damned Persian Calendar

Unable to admit a mistake, Dave resorts to blaming everyone else but himself.  Besides, God used the Persian calendar to HIDE the truth.  It is all code!  Of course, you know who, can only crack that code.

Originally we took the “sixth month” to be the sixth month of God’s sacred calendar, which is Elul. This was wrong. Upon closer examination, it became clear that the reference to the “sixth month” is simply to the sixth month and second year of King Darius’ reign from when it started. This date is according to the civil, lunar Persian calendar! God did not once mention the sacred calendar through Haggai. He does in Zechariah—but not Haggai. He simply refers to the second year within Darius’ reign. PERIOD! I (we) assumed that what He states in Zechariah applied to Haggai. In retrospect, it is obvious that God used HIS calendar for Zechariah and the PERSIAN calendar in Haggai to keep the prophecy hidden in code—harder to be understood before its time to be revealed had come. We missed this. Anyone can read the two books and see that one contains dates of the month that apply to God’s calendar and one does not. We made a connection that did not exist.

A series of clues point to Haggai 1:1 being in the SPRING of the year, NOT the fall. Let’s see.
To find the second year of Darius’ reign, we must look at when his reign began. Historians agree that Darius’ reign began in late September-early October 521 BC. Many sources could be included that say this. For instance, the 11th Edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica (widely seen as the most reputable edition) records that Darius came to office in October, 521 BC—and probably on the 10th of Tishri, or the Day of Atonement that year (October 10).

David C Pack Says The "Enemy's Of All Good" Are Accusing Him

Dave quotes HWA:
“Emphatically, if we—in our dedicated enthusiastic zeal to get God’s warning of the end of mankind’s world before this sick, sick world—do, even though we intend not to, appear to set a date, I feel I do not need to apologize! No one but the enemies of all good will accuse!
Then goes on to say that he is begin persecuted by enemies for his August 31, lie:
There are plenty of “enemies of all good” accusing God’s Church today. I see them exactly as Mr. Armstrong did—as no more and no less.
“…Making a mistake is not any evidence at all that a man is not being used of God. But these men [speaking of Moses, Abraham, David, Elijah and Peter] corrected their mistakes! AND SO HAVE WE!..”
“The big point is—we have been getting the job done—and no one else on earth has!”
Mr. Armstrong’s words are as true for God’s Church now as they were in 1972! Despite misunderstanding one element of timing of the Haggai/Zechariah prophecy (to be clarified momentarily), God’s Work is today exploding in size!

David C. Pack: Because I am The ONLY Apostle Today, All Splinter Group Leaders Are Beneath Me in Rank

The rank of Apostle  (which I David C. Pack holds) 
is OVER the rank of Evangelist 
(which all the weaker, impotent COG leaders hold.)

David C. Pack, the chief narcissist is on a roll:

This unwillingness to admit error is occurring throughout the splinters today—while brethren are (falsely) told almost routinely that I teach error. Yet I teach exactly what Mr. Armstrong taught. Instead of returning to God’s Church, brethren remain in places where they are drenched in false teachings straight from the apostates who took them straight from the Protestants! But they will not come with us—God’s true Church—because they are being deceived by false leaders about what The Restored Church of God teaches—and about what Mr. Armstrong actually taught.
“Yet they are all human. They are all subject to error, and so are you—and so am I—and so is this Work of God. Even though it is God’s Work, directed, empowered and blessed by Him, He carries it on through frail, weak humans, and we humans are ALL of us subject to mistakes!’
“…Repent means confess your sins …”
“If I were looking for God’s one true Church, I would assuredly look for one that had confessed and corrected its errors! For all have had them—even the early churches…”
“Any criterion that assumes God’s true Work through humans is absolutely perfect, unable to be wrong or make mistakes or hold to any error, is a false measuring stick and will mislead you.
“You may ask, do I, then, feel that we in this Work are full of errors, misleading the people? Most emphatically NO! We have not had to correct error many times. But each time we have corrected an error, we have had one fewer error left. If we knew of any error still remaining, now, we would change it! If and when we find one in the future, we shall correct it! The one who follows that principle is the MOST free from error!”
I and The Restored Church of God do the same. Mr. Armstrong continues:
“So, confessing such an error is one of the surest proofs to identify the people through whom the living Christ is working—and whom He is using!
“If you are looking for a leader who claims that he is perfect, and you think you have found him, and he is human, he is a false leader. There is only the one Leader who is perfect today—and He is the living Christ! We follow Him—and we trust you, with us, will do the same.”
It is quotes like these from Mr. Armstrong that are often used out of context by splinter leaders who hold offices below the rank of apostle. They claim, “We can change (translate: overthrow) teachings of Mr. Armstrong because he admitted he got things wrong.” They cite Mr. Armstrong for authority to change what they absolutely have NO AUTHORITY to change!

David C Pack Admits He And The 16 Were Wrong But Really Wasn't

Dave has to use HWA's "spiritualizing" away the 1972 failure as the "start" of something bigger and more powerful.  Dave is doing the same thing. He now thinks bigger and greater things are ahead for his little cult:

I have been well aware for over 40 years in the ministry of Mr. Armstrong’s position on setting dates. But in the case of the Haggai prophecy, I and every minister at our Headquarters concluded that the prophecy came in a manner that was inseparable from timing—that timing was directly attached to it. Later you will see what part of this thinking was wrong. Mr. Armstrong continues, explaining that some venturing into matters of timing, chronology and setting dates is natural and almost unavoidable:

“But we are only human, and it is natural that we should have been curious to know, as far as possible, how much time we had to get the job done
“That, however, in fact, is not our main purpose, or Commission—which is to proclaim Christ’s Announcement of the advance good news of the coming Kingdom of God to rule all nations…”
“Let me say now, that in early July last year (1971), I could not have said that had as yet been done. But, in the literal Scriptural meaning of that commission, as of January 7, 1972, it had been accomplished [reaching all nations]! Six months before we had not yet gotten the Message into Japan, nor into the Scandinavian countries. Now we have!”
“BUT—the unanswered question is—how intensively does God intend all these countries to be reached? That is the question He has not answered—in the Bible. (Unless by one implication of which I will cover later.) But, by what happened on that very day, January 7th, and since, it appears He has now given us the answer—He intends the nations to be reached more intensively than as of now!”

Does this now mean that Dave is going to double down on the COG's and do everything he can to poach members?

Dave then goes on to make another startling admission.  Is he about to start all over again?

We know in hindsight that the Work done under Mr. Armstrong was more intensive after 1972, but also that everything has to be done all over again (Rev. 10:11).

David C Pack Says He Is Just Like Herbert Armstrong and Cannot Escape The Attacks Against His Prophetic Failure

Dave is trying to use the epic failure of Herbert Armstrong's January 1972 prophetic failure as proof that his latest failed prophecy was not actually a failure because he is not a prophet.

Mr. Armstrong’s 1972 Tomorrow’s World Personal

All older brethren will remember when Mr. Armstrong wrote a long letter to the Church about an expected date that God’s Work would end, which did not come to pass in the way we thought (January 1972). As an Ambassador College student I was taught and believed that we were part of the last graduating class (June 1971). The year 1972 was thought by virtually everyone to be when the Work would end. I came to college in 1967 under the common belief that I/our class would not have time to get married or have children. Brethren for some time had stopped getting their teeth fixed or replacing bald tires on their cars because January 7, 1972 was “the end.” This thinking led to what would later be many stories that would be told and retold. Mr. Armstrong had also come to generally believe this timeframe.

In the February 1972 edition of Tomorrow’s World magazine, Mr. Armstrong addressed how Christians should view elements of prophetic timing. He wrote an article titled “The 19-Year Time Cycles – What HAPPENED January 7 – What My Commission IS!” He explained what it means when a date passes unfulfilled—in this case the timing of events that were directly connected to Christ’s Return. (Realize that the date of the remnant’s return is not nearly as important as when the Work is over and the Church is taken to safety—which the Church for years believed we could know absolutely.) Brethren who may be disillusioned or discouraged about the timing of the Haggai prophecy should find it helpful and encouraging to read Mr. Armstrong’s words. Due to the article’s length, I can only include excerpts. The serious reader will find and read the whole article.
 Dave then goes on to quote HWA's comments after his 1972 meltdown:

“Thousands know that I, personally, have been called and chosen for a very definite commission in God’s service. But I have definitely not been called to be a prophet—except as that word, Biblically used, does sometimes refer to a minister or speaker—one who proclaims the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 “Emphatically I am not a prophet, in the sense of one to whom God speaks specially and directly, revealing personally a future event to happen or new truth, or new and special instruction direct from God—separate from, and apart from what is contained in the Bible. And I never have claimed to be.

 “There is no such human prophet living today!

“The Bible is the written Word of God—and, for our time now, it is complete! Never have I believed or claimed that God reveals to me new truths not contained in the Bible—in addition to, or apart from, the Bible.”
Dave now wants you to know that he is being mocked and ridiculed because of his August prophecy failure, just like HWA was mocked after 1972 never happened.  HWA then had to spin the failure  to the fact that he was NOT a prophet.  Dave is doing the same thing right now.
Mr. Armstrong understood and made clear to all that he was NOT a prophet. This recognition will momentarily become more important. I recognize the same of myself, and have said so several times. Mr. Armstrong never once claimed to be a prophet and neither have I. Yet thousands have accused him of being a false prophet. (Whole websites are dedicated to listing his supposed “failed prophecies.”) Thousands today in the splinters make the same accusation of him. I will hardly escape similar attacks.

David C Pack Is Back With His Earth Shattering Announcement That EVERYONE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT!

David C. Pack is back with his regular Sabbath breaking announcement.  His long list of Friday missives are always posted AFTER sundown on Friday evenings.  If he supposedly is the worlds greatest Sabbath keeper, then why is he breaking the Sabbath?

Anyway, on to his latest earth shattering rant.

After Dave's EPIC failure of his great COG reunification he is now scrambling to "spiritualize" the failure away.  One of the ways he does this is to claim that the various COG's are all in epic downward spirals, but that they REFUSE to publicly admit they are.

Dave writes:

NOTICE: This is the TWENTY-EIGHTH in a series of special announcements. They collectively unveil the massive, ongoing expansion that God’s Church, Work and Headquarters are experiencing. There is a reason for this expansion! The reader should contrast these announcements to the increasing bad news and bad events in UCG, LCG, PCG, COGwa and ALL splinters and slivers of the Worldwide Church of God. You must see what they are NOT announcing, and why they never will—and what GOD is bringing upon them.

Dave still seems to think that he has some great announcement to make, but that it is not his job to prove it to you. His god will whip you into shape in that regards:

An enormous and detailed prophecy is now being carried out by God. He is preparing events to soon bring His people back together—all of them. It is not my task to convince you the prophecy is true. God will do that! My job is to systematically lay out the specifics of what will happen and WHY—good and bad, pleasant and unpleasant. YOU WILL NOT WANT TO MISS A SINGLE ANNOUNCEMENT! If you do, CATCH UP. Also, you will miss the full impact if you skip sections of these announcements.

Dave then makes another veiled threat, one that he has already made before but for some reason can't keep his mouth shut.  Oh wait, is it because he lied and his prophecy failed and he now has to dance around the failure?

Dave goes on to claim that lots of people have come over to the RCG, bother before the Feast and afterwards.  No splinter COG is reporting any dramatic defection of members.  Is Dave lying again?

Another PCG Death: Marvin Campbell - "One of PCG's Cruelest Enforcers of 'Government'"

Marvin Campbell

I missed this last week when reporting on the death of PCG tyrant Ron Fraser.  Another Philadelphia Church of God minister also died late in September.  Marvin Campbell. 

Campbell died on September 30, 2013.  Campbell was also legally blind due to complications from diabetes being untreated due to PCG's absurd doctrine against the use of Doctors.

It appears that Campbell was an even bigger tyrant that Fraser was.

ESN has these letters up about Campbell's tyrannical government enforcement:

Marvin Campbell One of PCG's Cruelest Enforcers of "Government":
March 22, 2004
PCG's latest sermon was by Marvin Campbell and was about "love" and "forgiveness" that the brethren should have for each other. Fine and dandy, except that he is one of the cruelest enforcers of the "government." He has tossed members out and told them they have no hope of returning. He (and others) require years of reading and rereading their books before a person can be considered for baptism. They must bring forth "fruits of repentance" before then. That basically means they must be sending in huge amounts of money. He and the ministers under him require large salaries from new members. That is some kind of proof of righteousness. --Just left PCG

Marvin Campblel's hatred of large picnics or church gatherings without a minister present:

Page 2
Marvin L. Campbell 

Due to pre-Halloween constraints, this will be Mr. Diehl's last announcement until after Halloween when Mr. Diehl  will give 3 more overarching and awesome ly expansive whatevers if Mr. Diehl can think them up.  Mr Diehl is pretty busy and will explain things never before understood which will continue to be never understood if we go by past history. 

Zombie Ministry
Sentient Developments: How to engineer a zombie virus

Having once been a pastor for WCG and experience in 14 congregations scattered across 5 states over 26 years, I believe I know how the ministry of that organization worked.  I knew many very sincere, quietly serving and believing pastors and elders.  They were no different than pastors in any other denomination.  You probably don't remember their names.  They weren't the Dave Pack's, Ron Weinland and Gerald Flurrys of the ministry.  For whatever reason, bafoons and theologically challenged salesman rose to the bottom  ("the top") while those given to ministry mostly realized they made a mistake in their youth believing that the message of WCG and the Bible were one. .  The drama over the heads of the average minister was unending.  Personally, I suppressed my doubts, fears and observations about just how this WCG thing was all going.  I had moments where I thought it would clarify and common sense would reign but someone always cancelled common sense.  HWA was good at that and Joe Tkach Sr and Jr simply never heard of it.  Others of you may know of other motives they may have had but all I can come up with is that they were fools. 

Dave Pack is particularly a symbol to me of all that I never spoke up about.  That is never going to happen again of course and the MOTIVE is to help others see and wake up.  No one can make a decision on such matters for a member of any group lead by one man with no common sense and perhaps even mental challenges, but I can encourage eyes to open as do others here.  I'm a firm believer in being where one is when they are there until they aren't there any longer.  Waking up is a process.  It does not come for everyone and others would say I am the one asleep so it's all subject to one's personal view of their story.

We are all breathlessly waiting on Dave's last, last message about Haggai and his calling as Joshua the High Priest as spoken of in that minor prophet.  Of course, it is all baloney and Dave just seems to have too much time on his hands to think about himself.  I suspect there is trouble in Wadsworth, but we'll see.  I am sure Dave has come to the point where he simply just wants this problem he caused in his own credibility to go away.  It takes a long time to reweave something to make it look like it was never full of holes.  It will prove to be the single greatest public mistake Dave Pack ever made (yet) in what he considers to be his view of himself in the Wild World of God Churches.

Most of us here have read Dave's questionnaire and litmus test for returning ministers should they wish to hitch their star to the Restored Church of God.  No real man much less minister , in my view, would ever answer to Dave's satisfaction any of these questions.  Dave simply wishes to remodel others in his own image and that is going to take work and leaving one's soul at the door of Dave's office.  Any man who who joins Restored Church as a minister is simply a yes man.

Dave Pack is particularly judgmental, mostly mental, when it comes to what he demands of others and how they "should" or "must" be.  Dave is big on "should-ing"on others and quite a "must-rabator" in my view of him as I read his screeds.

Here is how he views ministers other than himself and the zombies he has already created for his ministry.  From his open letter to the ministry of July 12, 2013.

"Instead, while this announcement will correct you, it will also inspire and surprise you. It includes a series of questions to consider in advance of the Haggai prophecy fulfillment. The goal is to lift you with hope for the future. Another purpose of these announcements has been to awaken in ministers a remembrance of the government of God at work in His Church. If you are reading with an open mind you will understand that what is written is, in part, an appeal designed to get your attention and return you to your true role and calling. You once firmly believed that Jesus Christ had installed you into the office you held within His unified Body. (Yet hundreds of you went on to reduce your God-ordained office to mere “elder.”)   Hopefully many of you still believe as you once did."

Dave shows his contempt for "low office" in the COGs.  He has never gotten over being sent to work for others back in the day when someone at least tried to tell him he was hardly the kind of man that qualified as a "helper of your joy."  He is the SAME today as he was then and I was told by the man who was asked to try and help Dave out that he'd never change.  Dave got "demoted" and it really rankled him.  Now he can reveal this with his "mere" elder view.  Notice he did not emphasise the word "mere" as in it's not really a small thing.  He emphasised "elder" as meaning it really is a low office unworthy of himself.  Dave is projecting his own contempt on to what the ministry out there should not want to tolerate since they used to have "higher" offices.   Lame..   "He that is greatest among you, let him be your servant..."

"Tragically, some will make the wrong decision and lose eternal life. Consider carefully your actions. Your record is being written. Judgment is now on the house of God (I Pet. 4:17). You know human beings. You know they will broadcast what happened in your pastorate. (Future announcements will explain EXACTLY what God says will happen to everyone who does not come—one of three things, none good.)

What kind of of BS is this?  Dave decides what a wrong decision is and the consequences of it all for that person.  Words of a fool.  Dave Pack has not had the best track record of late in explaining anything "EXACTLY" so I'd not worry about the three none good things in store for such losers.  I can think of a few more than three things, none good, in store for Dave Pack as this railroad he is building rolls on.

Here's a few points from his litmus test for RCG ministry Zombies to be that are particularly offensive and ill informed.

(3) Established Doctrine and Tradition
  • In what doctrines or traditions do you believe Mr. Armstrong “got it wrong”? (Include all areas—be specific.)
Most of them.  HWA had no formal theological training and hunt and pecked his way through the Bible for answers to questions which then became THE answers to our own at one time.

(4) Did you actively resist false doctrine in your ministry?—or give safe sermons where you disagreed? (Be specific.)

I don't think I ever gave a safe sermon.  That came later when the Tkaches turned sermon giving into ridiculous double talk.  You haven't lived until you had to be told Hank Hanagraaf , the Bible Answer Man, was someone you should look to.  Personally, during those days, I read books on topics the WCG never addressed.  For the past few years you here at BannedHWA have been subjected mercilessly to those results.  Your results may vary...

6) Why should you still be considered for the ministry in God’s Church?
  • Why should God’s flock ever again be entrusted to your care?
  • Are you prepared to re-win brethren’s trust, including brethren now here whom you will likely also pastor? What about re-winning the trust of Headquarters?

This is pure Dave Pack WCG/Global resentment bubbling up in his demands on ministry.  Re-winning the trust of the Brethren but in particular of Dave Pack sounds like something out of WWII.
"Are you prepared to re-win the trust of the SS and of Berlin?"   Personally I'd not want to be trusted by Dave because it would mean I was dead inside.

(9) Do you now believe again that Christ works solely through one unified organization?

No sorry, can't do that one.  Certainly not RCG

(10) In light of government(s) you followed, how do you see God’s government today?

Totally screwed up and not really an issue.

(15) Are you willing to temporarily or permanently become an associate pastor?

No, you weren't so why should I have to put up with that?  Goose and Gander stuff here.  What?  You think I want to be a mere Elder!!!???

(16) Are you willing to be excluded from the ministry until you requalify?

After your recent flub ups and misreading of Haggai, are you?

(18) If your ordination(s) is(are) invalid, are you interested in being re-trained for Christ’s true

I'll show you my "Pastor Credentials" if you show me your "Watcher", "Apostle," "Joshua the High Priest"  ones...    I want to see signatures and seals of approval.

(19) Do you believe ministers should be able to voice opinions to others about:
  • Where Headquarters is “wrong”?
  • What Mr. Armstrong taught/said/did “wrong”?
  • What Mr. Pack teaches/says/does “wrong”?
  • Where your boss is “wrong” or harsh, etc.?
  • Where you disagree doctrinally?
Oh man yeah!  You do it all the time.  I'm sensing the  resentment of the crushing defeat you felt you experienced in the past here.  In real life Dave, all men are equal and input is a good thing.  Have you ever read "In the multitude of counselors there is safety"?  Do you know why you are in the Haggai fix you are in?  It is because you would abide no real input.  You fired the one minister who warned you about overbuilding and the Joshua thing.  You kept the lackeys and agreers.

(20) Do you consider yourself as having been (rate yourself from 5 being best to 0 being worst):
  • Weak                  
  • Cowardly
  • Slothful
  • Covetous
  • Confused
  • Compromising
  • Foolish
  • Political (And did you ever “run for office” in a splinter?)
  • Heretical
  • Deceitful
  • Easily deceived
  • Betrayed your calling
( You can tell the longer Dave makes this list of questions, the more angry about his being snubbed in the past he becomes. Do you consider yourself as being arrogant, ill informed, mislead, full of yourself, dictatorial, silly, untrained, goofy, confused, foolish, deceitful and in need of some counseling?

(21) Why did you lose the ability to “discern good from evil” (Heb. 5:13-14)?—and for so long?

I didn't or I'd not be writing this....

(22) What do you consider to be your ministerial rank?

Genuine Human Being  (Dave has always loved numbers and ranks)

(23) Are you prepared to dedicate the rest of your life to serving God’s flock and fixing completely
the horrific mess you helped cause in so many lives?

You first Dave...they don't call much of your ministry "the trail of tears" for nothing.

(24) In light of how you once saw Mr. Armstrong, do you still recognize the fruits of a true apostle when you see one?

Probably not and it would be you if I did.

(25) Describe your spiritual condition today. (Also, rate your temperature from 0-10, with 10 the highest.)

Deeply spiritual and non-religious.  98.6

(26) What 5 biggest lessons did you learn from and since the apostasy? (In order of importance.)

1. Organized Religion is an Oxymoron  2.  Rank is an odor  3.  Clowns rise to the top  4.  The Bible has problems with it  5.  You're a hoot

(29) Having now long abandoned many doctrines you said you would never leave, how would you convince Headquarters that this time you “mean it” if you intend to now “hold fast” (Rev. 3:11)?

I would lie and act all emotional, cry, beat my chest, whine, beg  and try to perceive what you needed to see from me to fool you into thinking I wasn't "Joshin'" ya. 

(31) Are you prepared to spend a full year (or more) catching up with all you must unlearn, relearn, and learn new?

Will I get paid?  Otherwise, no.   I have a difficult time sitting still in lame lectures.

(33) How would you prove that you are still Spirit-led?—or were ever Spirit-led?

Raise the dead?  Heal the man with one arm?  Hear the voice of Jesus in my head telling me you are to be obeyed?  Whatever works I guess. Tell you that you are awesome?  "But I tell you brethren, I'm going nowhere" with Dave Pack.

(35) What did you do after reading the article “God’s People Back Together—SOON!”?

Laughed and thought to myself what kind of a fool would come up with this stuff...  I'm not a fan of that "soon" stuff.  What did you do Dave after God's people kinda didn't show up?  Just askin'

Anyway, stay tuned for Dave's final wrap up of the awesome and amazing prophecy/parallel of Haggai in which God, for 3000 years really, was preparing the world for David C Pack...

Thursday, October 10, 2013

A Malmite Says: Children "Christened" In A Church Are Sacrificed to Moloch and Bound Over To Satan

The mind numbing stupidity of the Malmites know no boundaries.

Did you know that anyone that has their child "christened" is sacrificing that child over to Moloch and binds it over to Satan?

The practice of sacrificing / dedicating children to Molech (satan)still takes place today. The “christening” of babies is sacrificing / dedicating them to satan by their parents. More so in catholic churches which are full of idols. The catholic mass ritual sacrifices our Lord on satan’s altar each time it takes place.

The shear stupidity of this person is appalling.  Not on single thing this person has said is true.  Malm shows his total ignorance by posting such a thing as truth.

J. R. R. Tolkien Books and Disney Are An Abomination and Should Not Be Touched!

Dingy Malm now hates Tolkien and The Lord of Rings.  If you go to see the new Lord of the Rings this December you will be cavorting with demons and committing an abomination.  Even touching the books will bring demonic possession, so DON'T TOUCH!

The fact that an acolyte felt the need to ask such a ridiculous question shows the extend these people have prostituted themselves to the mindless rantings of Malm and his perverted take on the law.

An acolyte asks:
20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

James, what is your opinion on JRR Tolkien’s “Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit” series? There are many fans of this series within the COG’s. The themes throughout are admittedly of high moral value and Christian symbolism/allegory. I even know at one WFW a few years ago, a minister did a seminar on the LOTR and the lessons we can gain from it. Good and evil are clearly defined by Tolkein, and all things immoral are condemned. But unfortunately, one of the main characters is a wizard. There are also many “magical” elements to the stories. I personally have wondered about this, and with the new Hobbit film coming out in December, I know many COG members are planning to go see it. Are you familiar with this series, and do you think it is acceptable for converted Christians to read the books and watch the films?
 Debbie Downer then repsondsL
Disney and others have filled the modern media with grotesque evil, presented in an entertaining and interesting exciting manner. Tolkien like harry potter makes evil to appear good and attractive, by adding it to elements of good; to create a mix that makes the evil look good. This is a great deception and a great evil; it is evil clothed as something good. 

This is an abomination to God and should be avoided and not touched. The COG Groups today are so far divorced from sound doctrine and so immersed in such evil that they cannot discern between good and evil the clean and unclean, the holy and the profane.

This is witchcraft pure and simple and should be avoided for the evil it is.

These things and those involved and taking them into their minds are an abomination to God and should immediately repent. James

James Malm: Funerals and Memorials Are Now Sinful???

Did you know that if you are not text of kin and are invited to a funeral or memorial it is  because the service was only being down to impress you and it is therefore a sin.

The more James Malm writes the stupider he gets.  The mere fact he has any followers is appalling, The fact that these acolytes allow themselves to be debased by such silliness is what is really disgusting.  Not one thing they are doing impresses God.

21:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto the priests the sons of Aaron, and say unto them, There shall none be defiled for the dead among his people: 21:2 But for his kin, that is near unto him, that is, for his mother, and for his father, and for his son, and for his daughter, and for his brother. 21:3 And for his sister a virgin, that is nigh unto him, which hath had no husband; for her may he be defiled.   21:4 But he shall not defile himself, being a chief man among his people, to profane himself.

The called out must not mourn for the dead by afflicting themselves physically, so that they abase themselves before the public.  Public asceticism [self abuse] is not humility before God, it is a fraud designed to make people think that such men are godly, when they actually reject God’s ways and do this to impress the spiritually ignorant lead men after their own ways.

Public shows of mourning and humility for those not of near kin, are mostly designed to impress and deceive the public.  In the COG Groups there are many who pay lip service to HWA to gain a personal following based on that deception.   We are to follow the whole word of God and not to follow HWA or any such man; nor are we to follow men who would lead us away from God to follow any such men.
part time priest: Demon discouragement
The Feast is Over-I don't Wanna Go Home
" Next week’s announcement, to appear some time between Monday and Wednesday, will carefully explain additional matters about the prophecy’s timing that came to light a month ago.
Readers will find it fascinating"
"Dave Pack"  October 4, 2013
I'm personally finding it fascinating that God's greatest , most simple, overarching and amazingly clear final "expansive elements" can't seem to make it out of the gate, at least on time as advertised.  Dave is more precise and disciplined than this...
Post Feast Letdown maybe?

Wednesday, October 9, 2013

Worldwide Church of God and The Jehovah's Witnesses - Plagiarism Buddies?

Check out the chart here: Which Came First? WCG or Watchtower Bible Society?

What I had never heard before was that JW leaders may have plagiarized Hebert's writings, just as Herbert Armstrong plagiarized JW, COG7 Day, Mormon and Adventists writers.

In HWA's basement in the old walk-in safe, HWA had lots of books from the SDA's, JW's, and other Adventist groups.  He had underlined passages in the books and marked them up from much use.

Dennis Muses: Clear as...

It's a complicated, intricate, not well or totally understood, puzzling, enormously complex, not so simple,  plain to see kinda crystal clear...
"God’s Word is crystal clear!"
Dave Pack-Announcement 27
Adventures In Density And Effort: Clear as Mud
"Readers will find it fascinating. No next “date” will be set, but the reader will be able to conclude for himself what may happen. Mr. Pack will explain what had not been understood." 
Someone-Probably Dave/ Stay tuned Announcement
Clear as mud” (Cowtown to Urban Hipster #
"Before covering vital points and scriptures that all should now keep in mind, it is of course obvious there was an error in the prophecy’s timing(Actually the error is the exegesis) There may be other details that are wrong. I always knew this and said it to the Church more than once. In fact, we are still learning additional elements of it. Mr. Armstrong puzzled and puzzled and puzzled over certain much less complicated prophecies. He often said that things he learned came over time—not all right away, or even close in some cases. There are points we learned “late” in what is an enormously complex prophecy. We knew from early on in our pursuit of the truth that this prophecy did not carry with it the kind of time that Mr. Armstrong always had to properly sort through prophecies—ones that, however great in magnitude as we know some are, were simpler to understand."
Dave Pack-Announcement 26
techtocktoe: Experience can go a long way- or it can get stuck in
"This announcement explains additional expansive elements of the Haggai/Zechariah prophecy that none of us had yet understood."
Dave Pack-Announcement 27
Mr. Pack will be posting two or three more “Friday Announcements” in the coming weeks. These will explain in detail additional expansive elements of the Haggai/Zechariah prophecy. They will open your eyes to things that God has long intended to do in His end-time Work that no one ever understood before, and you will see that His Word is plain!
Someone-Probably Dave-Stay tuned Announcement September 4th

File:FEMA - 31963 - Aerial of farm surrounded by muddy water.jpg
However...this personally is my idea of crystal clear.  Maybe it's just me...
Crystal Clear Water | My wallpapers

Tuesday, October 8, 2013

James Malm: Now That My Knowledge Has Been Brought Forth The Law, My God No Longer Overlooks Your New Moon Sins

The god of James Malm apparently is such a weak impotent thing that it could not control it's followers so that they kept the new moons on the correct days and at the precise time.  But now that James Malm is on the scene blasting the world with legalistic mumbo-jumbo his god is now holding people accountable for new moon worship.

A Malmite acolyte asks:
Can the new moon only be viewed from Jerusalem to start a new month? If so, can you provide the scripture support for this as well. This is not a question of should new moons be observed, but the logistics of viewing from Canada, U.S., Australia, or just Jerusalem.

The Pharisee responds:
The first visible light of the new moon may be seen on different days according to where we live. In the past this might have been overlooked by God, but as knowledge is increased God is turning us to focus us on Jerusalem as the future capital of all the earth.
 In an effort to have all brethren around the world observe the Festivals and Appointed times on the same day; and because God is working to focus all people on Jerusalem; which in the millennium will be the world capital; we choose to follow this prophecy in Isaiah 2:3
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

The millennial kingdom is about to be established and much increase in spiritual knowledge has been given, Dan 12; and now it is time for all people to begin to focus on the imminent future capital of the earth: that is what observing the first light of the new moon from Jerusalem is about. James

Still no Jesus, but tons of legalistic BS.

To Preserve The Sanctity of Marriage, James Malm Says, If A Man Sleeps With His Fiancee, She Is To Be Beaten While The Man Only Has To Give A Sacrifice

James Malm says:

If one lies with his betrothed, she shall be scourged, but not killed because she was forced; and the man shall bring a sacrifice for his sin.   Thus showing the sanctity of marriage that even the betrothed may not indulge themselves.

19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.  19:21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering. 19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.
So lets get this straight. In order to preserve the sanctity of marriage, James Malm says that you must beat the woman half to death if she has sexual relations with the man. 

As usual in patriarchal dominions, it is the woman that is at fault.  The poor man was deceived by the women so he only has to kill a goat.  The woman however is an evil temptress who was used by Satan to deceive and corrupt the once pure man, therefore, beat the evil out of her.'

So what brought about Malm's anger?  Oral sex!  Though for some reason he says it is the man's fault that women have oral sex.  They are deceived by the men in the Church of God into giving oral sex before marriage in order to remain a virgin who has not been penetrated.

I have heard of many cases within the COG Groups where women have been convinced by their men friends that oral or manual sex is not really sex, and they then do this, thinking themselves to still be virgins.  

I have news for you, Bill Clinton was wrong.  ANY kind of behavior that is intended to produce any type of sexual activity between unmarried persons is pornea, that is, such activity is forbidden!  And anyone who performs such activity is no longer a virgin in the emotional and spiritual sense.  

Spiritually we are to remain BOTH physical and spiritual virgins until lawful marriage.  This also has its spiritual application!  We are NOT to try  get as close as we can to paganism without actually worshipping the idol!  We are not to study and involve ourselves in doing or believing as the pagans do.
It is clearly obvious as to why Malm's wife left him.

Unrepentant Impure Sinners Wear Mixed Fabrics

For many decades now the Church of God has flipped through the Old testament picking and choosing what they wanted to keep and what they conveniently ignored.

Every opnce in a while in the church area I grew up in some diehard legalist would start spouting that we were required to not wear mixed fabrics.  The wish that people did this soon turned into a "command" that was usually followed by a "threat" that God was going to punish those who wore the mixed fabrics.  This would last for a short while to more sane minds told people to not worry about it.

Enter again into the fray, prophet James Malm.  Who else but Malm would be attempting to enforce such rules today in the 21st century.

We are not to mix seed or fibers in cloth, or to mix kinds of animals.  The focus on this is PURITY.  The spiritual lesson is to keep ourselves PURE and unspotted by the false doctrines and prophecies of false religions.  We are not to allow our white linen garments of righteousness to become mixed with the fibers of unrighteousness and error, of impurity and defilement of false ways.
Laws that were given specially to the Israelites to help form their separate identity from the Canaanites that surrounded them are not rules that carry over to Christians or anyone else today.

Sunday, October 6, 2013

Ron Fraser, Philadelphia Church of God Tyrant Dies

I have seen on several Facebook pages tonight that Ron Fraser from the Philadelphia Church of God splinter cult has died.

Fraser has a long reputation of being an abusive tyrannical minister.  Don't expect any of that when PCG starts eulogizing him.  He will be made out to be so saintly that Jesus Christ even bows at his name.  There will be no greater stalwart of the faith than Ron.

Gavin Rumney has this on his blog about Ron:

 Ron Fraser on Christ Church

Armstrong Delusion has this:

Ron Fraser: Till the Bitter End

Glynn Washington: Losing My Religion

Another great story from Glynn on life in Armstrongism. It is towards the end of the broadcast.

WWIII Began on November 23, 2010 and Tribulation Starts Sometime Between October, 13-November, 29 2017

Some followers of Herbert Armstrong have been so wrapped up in the prophecies of  Armstrong, Flurry, Meredith and others, so much so, that they latch on to other false prophets who sound similar to Armstrongism.

William Tapley, The Third Eagle, is just one more in a long line of lying fools that some in Armstrongism promote to their friends.  Many of these people are looking at the tribulation to begin in 2017.  This is a date Theil, Meredith and others have thrown around.  This is the same year that Tapley is predicting to be the start of the tribulation sometime between October 13 and November 29, 2017

This video is only 10 minutes long. It is worth listening to for the 10 minutes to hear the absurd things he says.  Did you know the number 11 and 23 are evil?  That condoms are the sign of the end times?

Not only are some of the Armstrongites fascinated by Tapley, they are also watching this guy who also predicts 2017:

Will Jesus return in 2017?
Many have been talking about how Rabbi Judah ben Samuel supposedly made an amazing prophecy concerning the future of Jerusalem that already has three accurate fulfillments from 1517-1967. The prophecy further predicts the start of the Messianic end time by 2017. Is the prophecy trustworthy?Read Tim McHyde's analysis