Tortured Apologetics
David C. Pack demeans himself during “The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 438)” on April 27, 2023. While on his hands and knees kissing the pinkie ring on Herbert W. Armstrong’s corpse, he takes a hammer to the man’s toes, making a bad situation even worse.
After neutering Herbert W. Armstrong during Part 437 by undoing his central legacy cocktail topic, it must have pricked Dave’s conscience because he goes out of his way to throw “his father in the Gospel” a bone with generous portions of meat still attached.
Before the grand suck-up, Dave hinted it was coming.
Part 438 – April 27, 2023
@ 23:32 And maybe Mr. Armstrong was more right than he knew (in a certain way). Certainly, when a lot of trumpets go off.
Herbert W. Armstrong:
Right in a certain way.
Maybe Dave was adding 2% back to the understanding ratio so HWA could be resurrected with his head held high. Having 2.01% of his prophetic understanding acknowledged by the two man-children nicknamed Coffee Kid and Pepper Boy would brighten anyone's day. The Elijah That Prophet Stamp of Approval would be the cherry on top.
You will never hear a more pathetically gushing walk-back than this tortured apologetics diatribe from David C. Pack during Part 438.
apologetics
reasoned arguments or writings in justification of something, typically a theory or religious doctrine
Even though he was seated, I could feel every muscle and joint in his body stretching to the near-breaking point with his verbal contortions. Usually, only people who practice yoga can twist like this.
Even now, I cannot listen to this two-and-a-half-minute clip without crying with laughter. It is both hilarious and agonizing. Former members, please fight through your PTSD and listen to it. You will be glad you did.
@ 52:30 The first Five Heads of the Roman Church attacked one generation in their time. We might ask, Does the Sixth Head work in its space of only one generation?
Activate the Rule of Thumb. Question posed. The answer is always: YES. He goes on to say it is Yes.
@ 52:50 As you know, I like to say this, so the Great Servant Herbert Armstrong thought (and he saw in the Scriptures) that there would be one generation of Israel taken captive before the Kingdom of God came. Was he wrong?
Instead of saying No, he approaches it from the opposite angle with feeble excuses. Watch the squirming commence.
@ 53:10 If he had it as the Seventh Head when it's the Sixth, but in principle, he was right, just off by a digit because he thought the Sixth Head was in his time and couldn’t see the Eighth.
Herbert W. Armstrong:
Off by a digit because he thought…
By this logic, the Sunday-keeping Catholics are right about the Sabbath “in principle,” they are just “off by a digit.” Talk about labored spin. This is tortured apologetics with nitromethane added to the fuel tank.
Dave is already straining so hard you could worry if he would pop a blood vessel. As Dave describes, HWA was clearly in complete error, but he is determined to give him a hard pass no matter how bleak things look. It goes from bad to worse. Enhanced with much shouting.
@ 52:23 That would be a very understandable mistake, wouldn't it? So, he taught that one generation, always believing it's the generation that was here (although we’ve now moved a couple generations since God called him.) It would be one generation that went into captivity.
Herbert W. Armstrong:
Very understandable mistakes.
Teaching a fraudulent doctrine for decades is now considered a “mistake.”
Who judges what is or is not "understandable" regarding prophetic accuracy? How about when it is enforced by a church as a doctrine with “truth” stamped on the side? Is David C. Pack qualified to determine this?
That is leaving the fox in charge of the hen house.
This is going poorly. Dave had to add his own parentheticals, which further exposed how wrong his mentor was. HWA thought it was during his time, but “a couple generations” later proves that false.
This display reeks of desperation and further diminishes my already low opinions of David C. Pack.
@ 53:41 He also was confused, so he took the period of captivity from the Eighth Head, called the whole thing the Seventh Head when it was really the Sixth Head. But, in principle, it was dead bang. He just thought this kingdom [Shot Glass] was gonna follow one generation of Israelites going into captivity.
Herbert W. Armstrong:
He also was confused.
Remind me to never ask David C. Pack to defend me in court. He is awful at apologetics. He kicked the ball into his own team's net and lost the game. Thanks, Dave.
Herbert W. Armstrong:
He just thought…
Pause. Try to think of Dave defending Gerald Flurry or Harold Camping the same way. That cannot be done. It is too fantastic to even try to imagine.
@ 54:06 So, if he called the Sixth the Seventh and borrowed the space that was really the Eighth (I'll say again), that’s a very understandable mistake.
By Dave making excuses for Herbert W. Armstrong, he is really excusing himself. At every turn, he digs the hole deeper and deeper. Each new detail exposes just how much more wrong HWA was than when he started supporting him.
Remember, David C. Pack is defending the man.
@ 54:18 I’m not trying to just go like that [pats himself on the shoulder] because I was willing to believe it for fifty years. It was very believable.
It was just not “very true.”
If you listen to the Jehovah’s Witness on your doorstep, they sound very believable. Those nicely dressed Mormon kids know their Bibles and sound very believable. Joel Osteen has made a career out of making biblical vomit believable. We can now count Herbert W. Armstrong among the greats.
@ 54:24 He said the Kingdom of God (he didn’t have these two iterations in place [Glass 1 & Glass 7]), and he didn’t see that there would be a Kingdom to Israel in front of this. [Shot Glass]) But, somebody [me] would be raised up at the end of the age to tell the church about a Kingdom to Israel and two other Kingdoms of God before this one [Glass 1000]. But the man was much more right, and what he taught the world was far closer to right, I mean, you know, here's the alternative: When you die, you go to heaven, even if you're Al Capone.
Much more right than what? Dave fizzled out before that thought was brought to fruition. Did he mean Buddhists? Maybe Muslims?
Herbert W. Armstrong:
Much more right than Taoists.
He could say Protestants are "far closer to right" than Hindus. With this logic, David C. Pack was saying that Herbert W. Armstrong was the lesser of the evils.
Do not let Dave defend me. Ever.
Herbert W. Armstrong:
Far closer to right than Al Capone.
The estate of Al Capone takes exception to that remark.
@ 54:55 I mean, that's so he taught the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. He just didn’t see the iterations because the Mystery of God was slated to be understood right before it was carried out. And cannot be carried out until it is understood.
There are only two positives by the end of Dave’s gushing apologetics seizure.
HWA knew punishment comes on one generation.
HWA knew there was a Gospel of the Kingdom of God.
Yeah, that's it. Herbert W. Armstrong proved he could read. What a fabulous new gold star pinned on the fridge of his legacy.
As if Dave did not already do enough damage to the man “he loves” to call a Great Servant, he had to keep the Weekend at Bernie’s disaster going. The over-compensating, over-explaining was overdone five minutes ago. And yet, it continued.
@ 1:00:04 Mr. Armstrong is starting to look really, really right, just off by a number.
1 + 1 = 3 is off by a number. There is a great gulf fixed between being correct and being incorrect.
Herbert W. Armstrong:
Just off by a number.
Parents do not want their kid's second-grade math teacher to be off by a number, much less an apostle and Pastor General of a church.
I have neither positive nor negative feelings about Herbert W. Armstrong. But as an observer, considering The Restored Church of God was established in 1999 to carry on that man’s legacy, this tortured apologetic fiasco stabs the guy in the liver while trying to save him from drowning.
It would have been better if Dave just let him stay dead.
@ 1:45:50 One final thought. Revelation 17:10 describes the Sixth Head IS. Is. You gotta be alive right now. Mr. Armstrong believed in his time that was true. But he thought it was 90 years ago, and then that came and went. So, he thought the Seventh Head would come. But we know, looking at it from the proper perspective 90 years later, the Sixth Head IS. “Meaning what, Mr. Pack?” He is here somewhere. You might wanna start looking around. And one of the nice things about the Splinters, it gives me a warm feeling in my heart, they are waiting for somebody to rise in Europe.
Is Dave paid by the prosecution or the defense? Is he protecting HWA or pushing him off a cliff?
Herbert W. Armstrong:
He believed that was true.
Dave straps on the Last Resort Life Vest by invoking the Splinters, of all things. The very organizations he has accused of being the Synagogue of Satan, operated by the devil and filled with wicked, lazy ministers. Even if all that is true, there is still a bright side.
@ 1:46:54 But, their heads are right because of Mr. Armstrong teaching (in essence) what’s correct. Okay, lemme say it again. He was lookin’ for the Seventh Head, but, really, the Sixth Head’s coming. And then, he borrowed the period from the Eighth Head even though he didn’t believe there was an Eighth Head, but he borrowed it. But, in essence, he prepared everybody.
So, Herbert W. Armstrong is the cucumber water of prophetic understanding.
To recap all the remarkable things Herbert W. Armstrong has accomplished, according to David C. Pack during Part 438:
He was right “in a certain way.”
He was right “in principle.”
He was “off by a digit.”
His mistakes are “very understandable.”
He was “confused.”
He “just thought…”
He “borrowed the space that was really…”
He taught what was “very believable.”
He “didn’t see…”
He was “far closer to right…”
He is better than “Al Capone goes to heaven.”
He was “just off by a number.”
He “believed in his time that was true.”
He taught “in essence what’s correct.”
He prepared the Splinters “in essence.”
This was the most tortured attempt at apologetics I have ever witnessed.
Do not ever let David C. Pack defend me. Ever. EVER.
Marc Cebrian
See: Tortured Apologetics
34 comments:
The USA has started more wars than any other country in the last 100 years. They must be the current head of the beast (whatever number that is). So much for British Israelism. I thought God's people were always the good guys.
Stop bullying Mr. Armstrong.
Obviously , HWA was confused at times, and this evidence PROVES IT !. This from Dave Pack's own autobiography at his RCG website, Chapter 13---
"Mr. Meredith said that the consensus among Headquarters ministers was that Mr. Pack was well-suited for the ministry. (Years later, Mr. Pack learned that Mr. Armstrong had also personally recommended sending him to the field.)"
https://rcg.org/books/tabodcp.html
You only need to look around to see how great Mr. Armstrong is in the church of God. In the worldwide church of God, I am shown his wonderful work and his beauty. I'm exceptionally frustrated that this blog discusses the second most prominent apostle close to David C. Pack which is Mr. Armstrong
.
Mr. Armstrong is an apostle of the end times; the word "apostle" means "one sent forth," and Mr. Armstrong was sent to speak with world leaders.
FALSE Advertising by FALSE Prophets
The false prophets Gerald Flurry and David Pack just pretended to worship Herbert W. Armstrong in order to attract his followers and their estates. Once people were in the satanic imposter cults of Flurry and Pack, it became all about worshipping them and all the new nonsense that they made up to flood their cults with.
The false prophets Gerald Flurry and David Pack both claimed to be holding fast to everything that Herbert W. Armstrong had taught more faithfully than anyone else. Then, Gerald Flurry and David Pack buggered up HWA's teachings more abominably than anyone else had done.
Wish he would stop playing with that shot glass. Its so distraction to the Show.
Hey Anonymous 3:47, if you are "exceptionally frustrated" that this blog discusses the Charlatan and False Prophet known as "pack", why the hell do you come here to be frustrated? You see, most of come here to gain knowledge and discuss the machinations about the fraud being perpetrated in Wadsworth. Maybe you should call or write pack himself, of course that is assuming you are not pack here in incognito ...
Christ has come to us through the person of Herbert W. Armstrong Mr. Armstrong has taken root in us; through his strength, through his honesty, his faith and his idealism we have found our way to paradise.
You only need to look around to see how great Mr. Armstrong is in the church of God.
Bandwagon argument. It only proves he fooled a lot of people. But in that category, he is outclassed by the pope.
In the worldwide church of God, I am shown his wonderful work and his beauty.
Will all the money he had, anyone could have built a beautiful campus and auditorium.
Stop bullying Mr. Armstrong.
When Herbert's ministers stop bullying the people, there will no longer be a need for this blog. You can help by exposing the bully ministers.
"He taught “in essence what’s correct."
Anyone who believes in God is correct. In essence. The rest is details.
There were about 70 Roman emperors from the beginning (Augustus — 27 BC) until the end (Romulus Augustus — 476 AD).
Wow. That's a lot of heads of the beast. More than eight for sure.
https://jaypenner.com/blog/roman-emperors-and-their-rule/
Not everyone thinks of the ministers as bullies.
"Mr." Armstrong was a garbage.
Don’t you HWA/RCG supporters have more tithes to send in and the tithe of the tithe. And what about your fasting? And asking your minister for advice on everything under the sun? Have you read the latest magazine and booklet?
To think you’d have time to waste on this blog. I need to see a lot more paying and praying around here or there will be a very strong worded brethren and co worker letter coming your way. You’ll wish you’d hear announcements but it will be read word for word or we’ll have another churchwide fast!
Contrary to what Dave claims, HWA was more than just mistaken about the 6th head, ie, Hitler being the 7th head. The problem was that he stated his speculations as the gospel truth. This resulted in his listeners making damaging life choices. Consider the carnage from his 1975 prophesy. People sold homes, farms, put off finding a mate, put off having children, turned their backs in a college education etc. And this after already having made over a 100 wrong prophetic predictions.
HWA was constantly lying through his teeth to give himself a slight advantage over others, even if it ruined peoples lives. Anyone who genuinely thinks well of this man needs to consider their moral state.
Tonto, Dave Pack's new autobiography is highly air brushed. It's contents can't be taken at face value. The very different original put out around 2000 is authentic and makes interesting reading. There's copies floating around.
Of course Dave's members need to send in their tithe of a tithe. How else are his horses going to be fed. Horses aren't cheap to keep you know. So be sure to send in your horse money, err, I mean your tithe money.
I am dumfounded that some of these post are idolizing HWA and saying he was an apostle. He was not an apostle. An apostle had to be someone who was with Jesus from the beginning. When Judas failed and died, they selected someone to "take his office". But when James, the brother of John was killed with a sword by Herod, they did not chose a replacement.
3:47 pm "In the worldwide church of God, I am shown his wonderful work and his beauty."
You are deceived. There is nothing beautiful about preaching a false gospel that touts the law and ignores Jesus Christ.
April 30, 4:29 "Mr. Armstrong is an apostle of the end times; the word "apostle" means "one sent forth," and Mr. Armstrong was sent to speak with world leaders."
He spoke with world leaders because he bribed their associates to get an appointment with expensive gifts. He did NOT share the GOSPEL. He talked to them about "the great unseen hand from somewhere". He was ashamed of the name of Jesus Christ.
Why doesn't God just strike Dave down? That's what I don't get. Time to send the Wagner Group to Wadsworth. That will take care of it.
Herbert Armstrong was extremely confused setting end dates acting like a weatherman predicting world events which is not the call of a prophet. He didn't even know what a prophet was.
He might have gotten every world event wrong . The list was very long of all his prediction failures. He was a salesman speaking with authority which put hooks out like a worm on a hook to catch fish. He was selfish, greedy, unrepentant, and broke up marital contacts between husbands & wives breaking hearts , destroying families regularly along with his dressed in black gangster ministers.
Anonymous 6:42, I may be wrong, but it appears that you asked that question from the standpoint of believing that Armstrongism in general is of God, and that Dave is somehow an anomaly. The fact is, God allows all manner of bad, human-induced activities to go on amongst the people with whom He has nothing to do. The fact that Dave can do whatever he pleases, defrauding and domineering over his followers freely, is a very positive indicator that God isn't even involved with them in the first place. God has a laissez faire attitude towards those who are not His own, giving them the freedom to get themselves in all manner of trouble, so that they realize what is wrong, and actually end up seeking what is right. It's so sad that the people of RCG mostly do not realize this. Those who do most likely expect God to correct the situation, but He only does that for His own.
RCG members need to walk away, and to begin their search anew.
Remember Byker Bob's Golden Rule: "One bum prophecy and you walk!"
Meaning Marc was correct to walk off the compound!
I noticed that the shot glass was empty, that explains a lot ...
Anonymous 6:42, I may be wrong, but it appears that you asked that question from the standpoint of believing that Armstrongism in general is of God, and that Dave is somehow an anomaly. The fact is, God allows all manner of bad, human-induced activities to go on amongst the people with whom He has nothing to do.... He only does that for His own.
So who are His own? How does one get to be one of His own? How does one know if he is one of His own?
612 The posts idolizing HWA are from the same anonymous poster. I'm thankful the Lord woke me up from that deception.
5:14 - I cannot stand Armstrongism. They stole my husband & broke my heart. My husband invited the man in black to our place. I asked critical thinking questions. He refused all of them and then slandered me. I was sitting across from Satan, an Armstrong gangster fake minister. Noel was his name in Minneapolis.
Horner was his last name. The word "Horn" stood out like you see on the goat head representing Satan. That fit him.
I was in the room with Satan himself
Hey, 5:14, that's up to you to figure out. And, not with confirmation-biased prayer, as the leaders of Armstrongism would like you to do. Switch your mind into neutral, and be truly open to whatever answer comes to you. Unfortunately, we live in times when people tell us that they are the chosen ones, they actually present very persuasive "proofs" and manipulate us with logic, and then when there are obvious bad fruits that everyone can see, they blame Satan for them, and even use that as an additional proof, i.e., "Satan is pulling out all the stops with his attacks on God's work." There really is no excuse for bad fruits. If a church is "of God", you should not have to excuse or deal with continuously failing false prophecy, witch doctors, your "Apostle" evading taxes and being sentenced to prison, stalkers, leaders advising you to leave your disabled children at a mall, constant ego-driven splintering, being forbidden to have any contact with your unchurched family members (including your mate and offspring if they leave), and other atrocities. These things are not attacks by Satan, they are assaults on your relationship with God, perpetrated by the ministry. Just because someone teaches sabbath and holyday keeping, clean meats, and tithing, they do not get a pass to mistreat and exploit you! That is not the mark of a Christian organization! These things are red flags indicating a false, or bad church, the proverbial deceptive wolf in sheeps clothing! Don't ever settle for "Oh well!"
I'm not into Armstrongism in any way, but others have found COG-7 (those dead "Sardis" people) to have much better fruits. Others have found Messianic Jewish groups to be very edifying. Or, you might want to freshly explore the New Covenant, studying materials which come from scholars outside of the Armstrong movement. Be objective, though. Don't use Armstrongism as the standard by which you evaluate and judge all new incoming information. Learn to set your own standards, using your own mind and powers of perception. Your mind is like a parachute. It only works if it is open. Don't allow "them" to close your mind and to entrap you!
God sent that minister to toughen you up to make you a stronger person.
Satan's Attacks
Satan IS attacking former Worldwide Church of God people viciously through his satanic imposter cults such as the PCG and the RCG. Satan is using his false prophets Gerald Flurry and David Pack to do this extremely dirty work.
The PCG and the RCG are NOT really into Armstrongism. They just pretend to be into Armstrongism, but actually pervert Armstrongism in the most outrageous ways of any of the splinter groups.
The PCG and the RCG are actually into Satanism. The fruits, or results, have already shown this.
Sad to read. The RCG is becoming tohu and bohu. Confusion and emptiness.
Has anyone actually studied each of the 7 churches in Revelation in depth going back into history? I have. They were very specifically written to those people living at that time in their culture and industry, definitely not you.
To act like you represent one of the churches in Revelation when you don't is twisting and weaponizing scripture deceiving people to get money out of them and control them. You keep them unbalanced and in fear. So wicked and evil.
Dave Pack is actually Mr. Confusion II. An evangelical minister gave HWA that name back in the 60's. So maybe Pack is actually Herbert's legitimate heir to the Armstrong legacy!
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