So...How Did You Come Into the TRUTH? ...and is it possible you may have missed some?

So...How Did You Come Into the TRUTH?

...and is it possible you may have missed some?

I grew up in the Presbyterian Church and I don't believe I ever heard anyone use the words "the truth" when speaking of their beliefs. It was just beliefs. You know, the ones passed on from generation to generation and being Presbyterian, no one in the local church ever would think to question any of it. It didn't matter. Behind the scenes, one could believe what they wanted and it was all so generic and nice that I can honestly say I never remember one issue coming up that maybe needed to be looked at, or anyone uttering the words, "new truth." Old truth was just fine and who cared.

When I discovered, as a teen, the really true Church of God, that seemed to me to be concerned with the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, that's all we heard about. People were asking each new member "So how or when did you come into the truth?" It was a nice way to say ask how long they had been in the church and from what error had they arrived. The word "truth" was thrown around a lot by that church. Everything had to do with "the truth." We kept the true sabbath, the true holydays, understood the truth about being born again and the truth about unclean meats and how to have a happy marriage. There were the true seven ways to be happy or be a leader or study your bible. You could be called into the truth and you could be dismembered for falling away from the truth. There was the truth about tithing and the truth about not tithing. There was the truth about who God has chosen and who He had not chosen and who He now loved and who he was pissed off with. There was the truth about the end times, which of course, we were living in and Jesus second coming simply has to be in the very near future. In my lifetime in fact! We evern knew the Plain Truth about everything from trade wars to crime and queer men. Never heard much about the truth of queer women though.

If you wanted to know the truth, just ask the Church, preferably on the local level by way of the minister, who knew all the truth there was. We knew the truth about evolution and the truth about the flood. Often we knew the "plain truth" which is the truth stripped down to the really core truth of the truth and was so simple to understand. However, simple as the truth might be to understand, God still had to open your mind to the truth, or you were never going to understand or know the truth. But it was simple after that. I later found out that "God has to open your mind," meant that one who came to the same conclusions as the Church and leadership had indeed had their mind opened by God. Those who disagreed or only saw some of it were still in the grip of Satan or at best had a bad attitude.

Gosh, we knew the truth about life and death. No one knew how consciousness or quantum physics worked, but all things God, just ask! We knew where you went and where you didn't went. We knew when you went to where you were going and how to get there and who wasn't going along with you because they had yet to discover the truth. We knew when they would discover the truth and, while not as good as when I discovered the truth, it was not bad at all. What's a thousand year difference compared to eternity? Nuttin! We knew who was in the right Church, which would be us, and who would be in the wrong Church, which would be all not us.

We knew the truth about the God of the Old Testament and why he was so freaking mean and loved killing both animals and humans. We knew the truth about the New Testament and how the Son of the Old Testament God was the nicer of the two and canceled all the stuff His Dad liked. We knew that the truth was that this bachelor son lived alone with His Father, after everyone that loved him the week before killed him. We knew they lived somewhere and the Father never had a wife or female to keep him company. But that was just the truth. God was a He and if you were a she, then you still had to be a "son of God" just the same, because that was the truth. Of course, I was uncomfy with me, a male, being the Bride of Christ, ewwww, but that was the truth too, so I had to rejoice in it.

Wow, we knew it all. Just ask! But once in a great while we discovered "New Truth." I can't tell you how amazing new truth is to discover. Now I may have been hoping that we would have discovered the new truth about the actual origins of man and the evolution of life over millions of years as opposed to the truth of everything being around 6000 years old, the story of Noah's Ark and the Tower of Babel, but that was not up for discussion. I thought maybe there was some new truth on why so many of the stories in the Old and New Testament are either scientifically incredible or historically impossible and unprovable, but no luck there either. I thought maybe some new truth might have to do with how the Gospels aren't harmonious eyewitness accounts of Jesus life, nor written by the men whose names appear on the books. But no banana there either. I thought maybe we'd get some new truth about why Paul never mentions Jesus' life, teachings, miracles, life events, birth or stuff like that, including why he never quotes him, but no, wrong again.

What really would have been nice would have been some new truth on how the local minister was just a guy too and didn't know everything and that was ok, but nope, nothing like that either. And it really would have been nice if, as a minister, I could suspect there was such a thing as "new truth" out there that maybe those in charge had missed to, but whoa baby, don't even think about it! New truth had to come from the top down and only agreement came from the bottom up. That's the way all churches area really. Top down, not bottom up. Bottom uppers are an endangered species in any church.

Recently a friend of mine told me the guy at the top of her church made a really good point in her church. Seems the minister fired the music director of 25 years without permission from the people. He said he was the guy at the top and it was his call. One guy at the bottom asked to speak and was given permission to do so. He reminded the minister that that is now how things are done and that he was wrong to do this firing on his own. Then the really good part comes up. The son of the minister walks up the isle and decks the guy opposing his father's actions. Police are called and it's all good! The bottom uppers won because decking the good guy never pays. I love the truth!

Once in a great while New Truth did come to the Church of "all Truth all the Time." But alas, it was always something like, "The New Truth About Make-up" or "The New Truth About Divorce and Remarriage." I learned these truths came from God when leadership was being  given a hard time about make-up by God's leading wives or some of God's leading wives left their leading husbands and the leading husband wanted a new leading wife. We did have the New Truth about Healing as well as leaders aged, needed care that they didn't need when younger and rethought the idea of only trusting God for healing etc. I'm glad that was old truth to me but I managed to keep that to myself and members in my care who asked.

But over all, New Truth just doesn't make it's way into Churches very often. They don't love to tell the old old story for nothing! As Mark Smith says in "Damn the Truth."

"Christians, unlike scientists, hate any and all evidence that goes against their theories. Theologians have a very hostile and oft times irrational attitude towards any evidence that would even suggest their theories need to be changed to fit the facts. To a Christian, a faulty theory is like an old member of the family whose mind has seen better days- something to warmly embrace and shield from all criticism. Christians, rather than being disinterested seekers of truth as they oft times pretend to be, are thus shown instead to be preachers of established dogma, opinions firmly set in concrete, with their minds already made up for them two thousand years ago by a Jewish rabbi. To a fundy Christian, there is no "new truth" to seek out or be discovered. So rather than seeking out new truth, they instead only seek out new ways to defend their old "truths". This is the reason you'll never see a "Research and Development" department within a school of theology. It is also the reason why, in defense of Christianity, no argument is too circular, no appeal to emotion avoided, and no straw men are left unconstructed."

He goes on to ask if a genuine new Gospel of Jesus were ever found, would it be added to the current New Testament? The answer is, of course, "NO" because all the truth there is, is already in the Bible. Besides, they have already found really great new Gospel writings, but one says the Disciples got miffed at Jesus for kissing Mary too often on the lips. When they asked Jesus why he loved her more than them, he came back with, "why does she love me more than you?" Great answer!!! Lousy Gospel. You'll never hear it in church.

One of the other problems out there when it comes to "The Truth" is that it gets suppressed a lot when someone who knows finds it. After all, it did take the Catholic Church 450 years to apologize to Galileo for noting that the sun was the center of the solar system and the earth revolved around it, not it around the earth. I personally think that 450 years between learning the truth and applying the truth is too long and certainly too long between apologies. Now the Catholic Church is not so sure about unsaved babies going to Limbo and may, in fact, get to go to heaven like baptized babies. Cool huh? Like they know, but isn't that amazing how something that was so much "the truth" for millions in the past, is now probably not after all...oh well.? This is great news for babies, if retroactive which I suppose it is or at least we can hope. Now those who thought one thing can think something else more comforting. Gosh, I hope this new truth does not only apply after a certain date. Bummer! All kidding aside, that kind of truth is just opinion because of questions raised about the state of certain categories of humans that die in certain states of being according to the Church. Don't mistake any of that for truth. We must not forget that Church Father's of the past were not above adjusting the truth to fit a real need. As Gibbon noted,
"The gravest of the ecclesiastical historians, Eusebius himself, indirectly confesses that he has related whatever might redound to the glory, and that he has SUPPRESSED all that could tend to the disgrace, of religion...(he has thus) so openly VIOLATED one of the fundamental laws of history." (On Christianity, Edward Gibbon, Prometheus, Buffalo, New York, 1991 pp. 131, 132)

Even Paul made a big deal about being duplistic. He would be a Jew to a Jew, a Gentile to a Gentile etc. which always left me wondering just what and who Paul really was. He said so often in the New Testament that he wasn't lying, I wonder why he felt he had to say that so often? Sounds like lots of folk thought he was.

So ask yourself, when was the last time my church found out there were more truths to understand than the ones they have in all their booklets and tracts? And I don't mean the Plain Truth About Eating Out After Church! I bet you'll have to say never. Church's don't really deal in truth as much as tradition and control of how those traditions are defended and apologized for. Church apologetics really are that you know. They are apologies for the fact that there are those times when we can see that something about the Bible or a "truth" as explained by a Church just does not fit the facts as we know them in this day and age, and yet we will not examine them. Sorry, the old truth is THE truth and we simply are not admitting any new ones at this time. Churches don't do new truth, but are good at doing new ways to defend old truths, which might not really be true.

This attitude of all churches and religions really should be your first hint that something is very wrong with it all and perhaps it really is all about tradition, not making waves, money, control and keeping the old old, yet inaccurate story alive so we all feel better. Most are afraid they or others will be disillusioned if "New Truth" rears it's ugly head, but when it comes right down to it, do you wish to live your life based on illusions? Actually many do which is why they never question anything.

Dennis C. Diehl

DenniscDiehl@aol.com

Prophet Thiel: Another Woman Ruling Over an Israelite Nation

Prophet Thiel is disturbed that a woman has been elected as Prime Minister in Denmark.  Of course, The Prophet intermediately has to tie into an Armstrongite prophecy prediction.  Those damn women ruling over the House of Israel yet again! When will the wimpy men stand up and be real HE MEN like Rod Meredith - God's end-time prophet, Elijah and Apostle???????

Helle Thorning-Schmidt

After the elections in Denmark yesterday, Helle Thorning-Schmidt is set to become the first female Prime Minister there:

Denmark’s Social Democratic leader Helle Thorning-Schmidt, 44, is set to become the country’s first female prime minister, after her center-left bloc narrowly won general elections, ending a decade of center-right rule.

Since those of us in groups like the Living Church of God do not vote in these elections, why am I mentioning the election of a woman as prime minister?
Because I believe that it will partially fulfill a prophecy to the children of Israel in Isaiah 3:12:

As for My people, children are their oppressors, And women rule over them. O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err, And destroy the way of your paths…

Of course, women are influential in all the Israelite-descended nations.  And now the highest elected office in Denmark is expected to be held by a woman. 

Back in the old Worldwide Church of God, some speculated that Denmark would leave the EU and not be part of the European Beast power.  I am not particularly sure on that one way or the other, but do consider that it is a possibility (the viper and serpent comments suggest that it is different than others who might unify).  Yet, the fact that the tribe of Dan is the only tribe not listed amongst the 144,000 in Revelation 7:4-8 makes me lean the other way at this instant–yet the fact that Denmark has not yet adopted the Euro (though its currency is directly linked to it) suggests a certain independence on the outskirts of the EU.
Catholic prophecy tends to teach that the Antichrist will come from the tribe of Dan (but it also teaches other possibilities there), but I tend to doubt that the Antichrist will be a Danite.

Big Sandy Campus Featured In Primetime Nightline Story

I while back I had an entry on The Alert Academy who bought the Big Sandy campus.  It is run by a fundamentalist Baptist oriented sect that encourages large families. Check out the Bates family with 18 kids and counting.  They are featured on the Big Sandy Campus in this Primetime Nightline story.

If video does not work then check the show on Hulu: My Extra (Ordinary) Family Bates' 18 Kids

Patriarchal Idiots Leading The Church

Comments from a Facebook COG Survivors page:

I went to WCG from my earliest memories til I quit when I was in 12th grade. I can't even begin to tell you how much time I have spent in therapy just to figure out and prove to myself that "I'm not and never was such a bad person"-the way I was made to feel by every person in that church. 

 From the lead ministers down to all of the deacons-they were all about making you feel miserable and crappy all of the time. This group is supposed to be for survivors but most of what I have read seems to be people still trying to prove some kind of point regarding what we should really believe and follow so let me throw my 10 cents in...the God I follow is supposed to be a loving and forgiving God-not one that makes you feel guilty and miserable because you watched tv after sundown on Friday night. 

Every rule we tried to keep are man made rules and guidelines from interpretations made by men who removed parts of the bible along the way if they wanted to have more fun in life. Religion sure can be a powerful brainwashing weapon to young people, or older people, who are impressionable. It's wrong to take advantage of an impressionable mind. 

God wants us to be thinkers, not sheep who follow any speaker who seems to know what he's talking about. My dad cheated on my mom the entire time I went to this church. Our deacons and pastors advice? She should make sure she is fulfilling her duties as a wife and maybe that would keep him at home. Excellent leadership from a load of patriarchal idiots claiming to lead in God's direction.

Restaurants Are Hotbeds of Satanic Activity

Someone left the door open at the funny farm and the inmates are loose!

Restaurants Are Hotbeds of Satanic Activity
Dennis Fischer rails against restaurants as dens of satanic activity.  He says:

Satan desperately wants restaurant personnel to reject God's Sabbath, and he desperately wants God’s people to purchase the fruit of this sin. So far, he seems to be having his way with both.

 


“NOTICE" 
This restaurant rejects God’s law and profanes His Sabbath. 
We serve another god. He is our master. 
So come on in and enjoy the best
food and service in town.
                

    Imagine that you and some friends decide to go to your favorite restaurant after Sabbath services and enjoy a delicious meal and some wonderful Christian fellowship. This has been a long standing tradition of yours and you never once questioned it. As you pull into the parking lot you immediately notice something different. The name of the restaurant has changed. You then proceed toward the entrance and see a small announcement board with a notice that informs all customers that this is a God rejecting, Satan worshiping restaurant. Aside from that nothing has changed. The personnel are all the same and the menu is identical to the one that was there before. Now here is our question:

Would you feel as comfortable eating there

as you did prior to this "renovation"?

     If your answer is "no" then you are simply the victim of good advertising. You may never find this sign or the accompanying announcement, but every Sabbath you will find the restaurant they describe. It is the one many of God's people visit every week.

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is

Transformed into an angel of light."

2 Cor. 11:14

What is the Point?

     The point in presenting this "hypothetical" is to illustrate that what takes place in a restaurant on God's Sabbath goes entirely against His great moral law. On that day, restaurant personnel serve the god of this world, and do his bidding, whether they are aware of it or not. In a very real sense, restaurants that profane God's Sabbath are, for that day, "The Devil's Diner." Simply because they don't post this fact on a sign may provide consolation for advocates of Sabbath dining, but such an omission carries no weight with the Almighty. Both Israel and Judah went into captivity because they forgot about His Sabbath. Is it possible that the same fate awaits His people today, if they continue to engage in this sin? Certainly that was what Nehemiah suggested (Neh. 13:17-18).

     What all too many in God’s Church fail to grasp is that a real God-rejecting devil has blinded the minds of those who profane the Sabbath by laboring in restaurants on this day (2Cor. 4:4). Furthermore, that devil has also blinded the minds of those in God's Church who see nothing wrong with seeking out these unbelievers and paying them for their services.

    The bottom line is this: Satan desperately wants restaurant personnel to reject God's Sabbath, and he desperately wants God’s people to purchase the fruit of this sin. So far, he seems to be having his way with both.

Here's What Dennis Fischer Says Will Happen If You Eat in a Fine Resturant on the Sabbath

Here's why it is a sin if you eat out at fancy restaurant on the sabbath.  There might be high class call girls in the room or business people might be doing some work and you do not want to be in the same space as grievous sinners. 

These are actual reasons that Dennis Fischer gives on his 30 Excuses: Fine Dining

Example I

"Working Girls"

 

    Suppose that this elegant restaurant was a gathering place of numerous prostitutes. However, these “ladies of the evening” are not the typical “hookers” one might see on street corners in sleazy parts of town. These particular women are high priced “call girls” with very influential clients. Each of these "ladies" is highly educated. Most have graduate degrees and may speak several languages. They enjoy the opera and are well versed in literature and the arts. They can converse intelligently about politics and philosophy. Additionally, they command as much as $10,000 an evening for their services. To put it mildly they are very sophisticated. But they are prostitutes nonetheless. Furthermore, at this particular restaurant they are everywhere—engaging in their craft, making contacts and networking. Add to that, dining with these very expensive “escorts” are men whose wives are at home with their children totally unaware that tonight their husbands will be spending some “quality time” with someone else.

     Now here is our question.

• Is such a place conducive for honoring God’s Sabbath?

• Or, would you recommend that God’s people choose another place to dine?

     Most would have to admit that such a restaurant is not an appropriate place to dine on the Sabbath or, any other day for that matter. After all, regardless of how you want to slice it, God’s law is being trampled on with impunity by its patrons. Furthermore, adultery is a capital crime in the Bible. It attacks the very core of decency.

 

     Now some may argue that such a hypothetical situation doesn’t exist—and even if it did God’s people would be unable to detect such behavior. After all, discretion is the stock and trade of such “ladies.”

 

     This may be true so lets try a different example—one a bit more real.

Example II

“A Capital Crime”

   

     Suppose you and your family are at another fine restaurant on the Sabbath and everyone there is desecrating God’s holy day right before your eyes. At every table this sacrilege is taking place. Work is being done. Business is being transacted. The conversations all around you (even if you can’t hear them) relate to the profane world. Even an occasional round of “Happy Birthday” is being sung by attentive servers.

Now, here is our question.

• Is this a place that is conducive to keeping God’s day holy?

• Furthermore, should God’s people actually pay to be in such a place? In other words, should they do business with it, on God’s Sabbath no less? Remember that profaning the Sabbath is also a capital crime in the scriptures.

                                                  Embracing Sin

 

    The reason most people in God’s Church dine out on the Sabbath is either 1) they never think about what is really taking place all around them or, 2) they don’t regard what is being done as an egregious sin. Tragically, we have become desensitized by our contemporary world to accept what God condemns. Furthermore, by never questioning what restaurants do on this day, we never have to question what we do.

 

    The bottom line is this. You can no more find a restaurant elegant enough to offset what is taking place in it every Sabbath than you could find a cathedral elegant enough to offset what it is doing every Sunday. No matter how fancy it is, no matter how exquisite its atmosphere, it is still POLLUTING what God Himself made HOLY! Here is the question we should ask ourselves. What does God Almighty think of what is taking place at this fine eatery every Sabbath and holy day? Furthermore, what does He think of His people seeking out and paying for this sacrilege?

Here's What Dennis Fischer Thinks About You Eating Out On The Sabbath

Wrestling With God

I picked up an interesting book the other day at Fuller called “The Fidelity of Betrayal: Towards a Church Beyond Belief” by Peter Rollins.

In an interview here       Rollins states:

…"what if God is not to be found directly in our beliefs and practices but rather indirectly as the name we give to the source that generates our desire to form beliefs and practices". 

If one believes that we ought to take this question seriously then we are led to ask where it leads. This is something that I began to explore in How (Not) to Speak of God and that I have continued to investigate in The Fidelity of Betrayal. If the last book involved exploring how such an idea leads to the embrace of doubt, complexity and ambiguity then this new book investigates faith as the outworking of a constant wrestling with our religion, a struggle that involves being ready and willing to betray the very theological and ecclesial structures that sustain us. In exploring this I wish to show how betrayal, contrary to popular thought, can actually express the most radical fidelity to the source that generates our desire to forge these vast structures in the first place. In short, the book can be described as a singular sustained reflection on what it means to be baptized into the name "Israel", a name that describes one who grapples with God.   

How many of us in Armstrongism ever really wrestled with the scriptures, doctrines and church traditions?  The answer to that is quit simple.  None of us did so while we were part of the collective.  Armstrongism lived in a world of black and white.  It was believe it or leave it.  There was no ambiguity, there was no room for doubt,, there certainly was no place for questioning. How many times did we have to sit through screaming harangues by HWA as he bellowed about “The Two Trees”  It got so that when we saw him walk out on stage you could hear people groan. At least we got to hear him scream at us live.  I can’t imagine sitting in an Elks Lodge in the middle of the country listening to a stupid tape of him bellowing!  Oy!

Armstrongism left no room for members to doubt, to question, or to wrestle with scriptures.  To dare to wrestle and to question was a sure sign of being unconverted.  That word alone sent shivers down members spines.  To be unconverted meant you had lost your place in eternal salvation.  To be labeled as “unconverted” was tantamount to a death sentence.  There was no hope for you.

Armstrongism has always love to imitate and pretend to be Jewish.  Yet Armstrongism has always neglected one of the major understandings of Judaism. Questioning, arguing and wrestling with God were major themes in Hebrew scriptures.   

Abraham felt perfectly comfortable questioning God and God did not seem to have a problem being questioned.  When you read about Abraham arguing with God about not destroying Sodom if he could find 50 righteous people and then argued God down to 10 righteous.

Rollins writes:

This discussion continues until Abraham has persuaded God to hold back from destroying the city so long as there are as few as ten righteous people living there.  Regardless of how one wishes to interpret the nature of this dialogue, it is obvious that the narrative affirms (1) that Abraham felt able to question God and (2) that God did not seem to mind being questioned. The story even seems to  imply that God wants Abraham to disagree, for why else would God be presented as openly and audibly considering whether or not to destroy Sodom within earshot of Abraham?

 
Then there is the story of Jacob wrestling with the stranger who approached Jacob as he was camped out by a river. This stranger was unable to over power Jacob in a fight which lasted all night.  The stranger even had to ask Jacob to set him free. Jacob refuses without first asking for a blessing.  The stranger says, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with human beings and have overcome.”

Rollins writes:

 Whereas Abraham questioned God with a certain deference and respect, this story presents Jacob in a much more defiant and aggressive light.  Jacob does not seem in any way repentant when he discovers who this stranger really is, and God, far from seeming to have a problem with such an unrepentant follower, bestows the victor with the blessing of a new name that would come to represent, not only Jacob, but all of his descendents.

It is here, in this encounter between Jacob and God, that we discover why the Jewish community is marked out by the name “Israel.”  This title represents the spirit of a people who have “wrestled with God and with men and have overcome.” This name illuminates the living dynamic of Hebraic faith. It magnifies a radical idea that marks out the Jewish people, describing something almost paradoxical about this faith: that absolute commitment to God involves a deep and sustained wrestling with God.  In this story we discover that the Israelites are to be marked out, not as a people who live out their faith through unquestioning submission but as a people who demonstrate their love and commitment to the source of their faith in a radical commitment to fighting with that source. This is a people to be marked out by struggling, by passion, by critical engagement.

Whenever in Armstrongism did we ever struggle as a church to wrestle, question and argue  with God?  Where was there any passion Armstrongism?  How can you be passionate for something that you think you know everything about it?  Whenever was their critical engagement in Armstrongism?  When were members allowed to question, argue and challenge beliefs?

Rollins continues:

While the Islamic faith is derived from a word that can be translated as “submission,” the tribes of Israel bear a different name, one that evokes the image of conflict, tension, and turmoil.  Thus, if relationship with God within this tradition is to be understood as promising peace and harmony, it cannot be understood as a peace and harmony that stands in contrast to a kinetic life of tension, striving, and  conflict. For the blessing that God bestowed upon Jacob brings us face to face with the fact that God wants a fight.

Then we jump to Peter as an example and his dream about foods that were considered unclean:

About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.
“Surely not Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
The voice said to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

 Rollins writes:

This vision fundamentally challenges what Peter holds to be a command of God and opens up a difficult dilemma: in order to obey the command of God he must disobey the command of God.

Rollins continues:

“…each of them brings the reader face to face with a time when individuals have questioned, fought an even betrayed the word of God as a direct result of their fidelity to the way of God. More than this, each of these examples is framed in such a way that the reader is left with no doubt that the wrestling was acceptable to, and even desired by, God. Yet the text is structured in such a way that it challenges us to go deeper, for it does not merely offer us examples of people who wrestled with God but also presents us with situations in which we are invited to do the same. The text itself places us into various situations where the God we read about is one whom we must question, not out of our weakness or selfishness but rather from out of  the very depths of our faith.

Can you imagine people in Pack’s, Flurry’s and Meredith’s cults every vocally questioning? They wouldn’t dare, because it just is not done!  Plus, they would find their asses out on the street so fast they would not know what hit them.

Armstrongism cannot allow questioning because it cannot allow dialogue between members and the elite.  Constructive dialogue about scriptures, doctrines, beliefs all lead to a richer environments where people are free to explore and deepen their relationship with their God.  But you never see this happening in Armstrongism.  The rules and beliefs were laid out by one man seventy some years ago. There was no dialogue at that time. It is a known fact that HWA never discussed things with the COG in Stansbury. He told them how things were going to be and when they ignored him he left in a huff and started his own church.  No wrestling, no dialogue, no questioning, no arguing, no enriching conversations.  Nada, just pitched a fit and left.

So to this day you do not see wrestling with scripture, dialogue or questioning in Armstrongism over things.  The only people from Armstrongism who seem to question are those that have left it.  You had to have that spark in you to wrestle and to question in order to begin the process of leaving.  Even if you have been kicked out and disfellowshipped, you started that ball rolling by questioning something.  

What has questioning done for you?

Bob Thiel SHOCKER! King of the North Visits Ground Zero!!!!!

 Karl wearing lederhosen that he will force all Americans to wear 

when he imprisons us in concentration camps.

Who woulda thunk it!  A sure sign of prophecy coming true when the Beast Power is doing reconnaissance in New York before he destroys it.  Only in the minds of an Armstrongite can this vision make it's self know!

Chiro/Naturopath/2012 Authority/Prophet/and All Around Know-it-All is all giddy that Stephanie and Karl zu Guttenberg visited Ground Zero this week.  It is a sure sign that the end times are approaching!

Stephanie and Karl zu Guttenberg visited the Ground Zero area in New York earlier this week...

As regular readers of this page are aware, I have had my eye on one-time German Defense Minister Baron Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg since late 2009 as one who could possibly fulfill the role of the final King of the North.  He and his family recently temporarily exiled themselves from Germany and (about three weeks ago) moved to an expensive area in Connecticut (see also Baron Guttenberg’s House May Fulfill a Prophecy (and is in a Celebrity Neighborhood) (the following is machine-translated and then with some of the English corrected by me:

Former Defence Minister Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg, who left Germany in silence in late August, and moved…, along with his family to the U.S. State of Connecticut has moved.  He told Der Spiegel he has purchased an expensive property there for three million euros, and is less than an hour’s drive from New York…
Since his resignation as Minister,  Guttenberg has withdrawn completely from public life. Shortly before moving to the U.S., however, he celebrated at the Berlin bar scene until the early morning hours with his friends farewell from Germany.What Guttenberg is doing exactly at the new home remains unclear…His wife Stephanie said, “We remain German, with all our heart. And we will come back. That’s for sure.” (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,785483,00.html)

The one-time Economics Minister for Germany resigned his Defense Minister post because of a plagiarism scandal related to his at least partially apparently copied doctoral dissertation.  And although the Guttenbergs left Germany, they intend to return.  Other than claiming he wanted to think and write a book, Karl Guttenberg has not stated why he is in the USA.
As I have mentioned before, Karl Guttenberg’s scandal and exile appear to be consistent with certain Roman and Orthodox Catholic prophecies about a leader commonly referred to as the Great Monarch and possibly biblical prophecy concerning the Beast, the final King of the North see also Might German Baron Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg become the King of the North?).

Here are a few other passages that related to the final Beast, the final King of the North, that indicates the Beast has certain corruption and planning tendencies:

23 “And in the latter time of their kingdom,
When the transgressors have reached their fullness,
A king shall arise,
Having fierce features,
Who understands sinister schemes.
24 His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power;
He shall destroy fearfully,
And shall prosper and thrive;
He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.
25 “Through his cunning
He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;
And he shall exalt himself in his heart.
He shall destroy many in their prosperity. (Daniel 8:23-25)

The comment about “cunning” indicates that image is important to him, and parts of the German press indicated that image is the reason he and his wife visited Ground Zero (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/ex-minister-in-new-york-guttenbergs-ground-zero-show-1.1142531).  Learning more about the USA could be helpful for him if Baron Guttenberg returns to politics and/or becomes the final King of the North of biblical prophecy.

God Speaks To Dave Pack

Dave Pack: God's Greatest Gift To Humanity

 There is something not quit right about this guy!  It shows in his face and demeanor.

Poor Dave Pack. he gets no respect!  But one can only respect that which is honorable and there is NOTHING honorable about Dave Pack.  Arrogant, pompous, self-serving, liar, false teacher, false apostle, and wanna-be HWA clone, are just a few of the words one could ascibe to Pack. He considers himself to be the worlds foremost Biblical scholar and his web site contains more Biblical information than any other site in the entire world.


UK Apologetics had this to say about Pack:

According to his own website, after attending Ambassador College, David C. Pack,

"...entered the Worldwide Church of God ministry in 1971 and was personally trained by Herbert W. Armstrong. He has established over 50 congregations, authored more than 20 books, written hundreds of booklets and articles, and appeared on The History Channel. As Editor-in-Chief of The Real Truth magazine and voice of The World to Come program, he has reached millions around the globe with the most powerful truths of the Bible, unknown to almost all."

There is appalling arrogance there. If somebody other than Mr Pack wrote these comments he needs to move quickly to remove the arrogant tone. But if - as one suspects - the comments appear with his approval, one can only gasp at a man who would claim that he alone reaches "millions around the globe" with an authentic Bible message which is "unknown to almost all." To be frank, this is typical of the amazing arrogance of the armstrongists. So, according to the reasoning which the "Restored Church of God" encourages us to accept, forget about Aquinas, forget about Luther, forget about Calvin, forget about John Wesley, CH Spurgeon, Martyn Lloyd-Jones and all the rest - until Herbert Armstrong came along we knew virtually nothing about the Bible and now - how wonderful! - Mr Pack is devoutly and selflessly continuing in his path. Herbert, of course, was full of an arrogance and (entirely misplaced) confidence just like that so it is perhaps no shock to find his disciples inheriting the very same trait.
In the very same, Who is David C. Pack? article on his website, Mr Pack (or, one presumably writing with his authority), modestly points out that in order to attend Ambassador College, he declined an invitation to attend Dartmouth College, as well as an appointment to the U.S. Naval Academy, plus numerous other scholarship offers. Hmm. What a very able and clever young man! Continuing in the same line of modesty, the article further tells us that,

"...he has traveled the world, pastored thousands and conducted many public Bible lectures. Mr. Pack has also held a number of leadership positions that have given him a wide range of ministerial and administrative experience."

Yep, while this may all be perfectly accurate, the impression is that this is real 'CV' material of the most embellished kind. Moreover, we are told that Mr Pack's writing is,

"Published on the most extensive biblically based websites in the world, Mr. Pack’s and the Church’s materials address the everyday concerns of the average man and woman..."

Of course, the unpalatable truth (for the armstrongists) is that no "biblically-based website" would allow any material coming from Mr Pack or any armstrongist disciple anywhere near their website unless the purpose should be to critique it, as we are doing right here.

Pam Dewey has this to say on her Field Guide to the Wild World of Religion: Worldwide Church of God Family Tree page:

Although Pack did have some folks follow him out of the GCG, that was a bit surprising for many people.

Here is how the Ambassador Report put it back in 1985 when Pack was still a minister in the WCG:

 

"For a number of years now, no WCG minister's name has  appeared more often in letters written to the Report complaining of  ministerial abuse.  A group of members was even so brazen as to  circulate an open letter detailing his abuses and calling for his  removal.  According to this group, he "intimidated members, used threats  and mind control, was given to emotion outbursts, disfellowshipped  members for trivial faults, prescribed diets while playing M.D., put  down women," etc., etc.

The letter quoted Pack as saying, "Everyone who has challenged me has  either died, been seriously injured or has been eliminated from the  work...God backs me even if I am wrong."

 

Someone who had been an insider in the Global Church of God, before Rod Meredith left to form the Living Church of God, confirmed to me that Pack's reputation was identical within that organization at the time, with numerous complaints from people coming in about his tactics all the time.  

In spite of all that, Pack did gather a following. Over the years since then there have been numerous defections from his ministry, but he has also gained more supporters, both from other WCG splinter groups and from the public via the Internet.

Like Gerald Flurry before him (whose claims Pack mocks) David Pack claims to have inherited Herbert Armstrong’s mantle. He also claims that his organization follows the teachings of Herbert Armstrong more closely than any other WCG splinter group.

------

As of an astonishing sermon given in February 2005, he declared himself to be the only Apostle of our time, and insisted that he will be personally "training" those two individuals who will end up being the “Two Witnesses of Revelation.” You can see a detailed overview of that sermon on the Exit and Support Network website.

Is Rod Meredith Ensuring His Children's Inheritance?

From a comment on the Glen Gilchrist posting:

"...do you think LCG emphasized government so much because of what UCG and COGWA went through last year?"

 

No. LCG emphasizes government because that is how Rod Meredith can force his sheeple to accept his sons as his rightful heirs to the throne, passing over so many other more senior men. Of course, this doesn't work for everyone. I have heard that LCG's income dropped sharply after Rod appointed his son Jim as his #2, and that it dropped even more after Rod baptized his son David and gave him a cushy HQ job. Lots of people in LCG are disgusted by Rod's blatant nepotism, and by his growing trail of lies, and there may even be a church split because of it. Rod may end up with a cult smaller than Flurry's, but it will still be a nice inheritance to leave to his children, saving them from having to do another honest day of work as long as they live

Radio Church of God: Anglo-American-Israel Theory

Click all pages to embiggen

Glen Gilchrist (LCG): When I Speak The Most Amazing Thing Happens...

This LCG ministurd thinks Jesus is standing next to him as he preaches. This was a slick way of keeping the dumb sheeple in submission. If you dared question this minister you were going against God. Rebellion!

This was a teaching that I heard over and over growing up in the Cincinnati and Dayton churches. We even had our fair share of crackpots in Pasadena who said this same thing.

I knew Gilchrist from college and believe me, Jesus is NOT standing by him when he preaches! Jesus is nowhere to be found in the proximity of the guy!

It was a regional ministerial and leadership conference in the UK. I believe
Dr. Winnail was conducting the conference. There were many subjects that were
covered but the one that caught my attention was the section on "church
government and ministerial authority". Now whether Winnail was telling them to
exercise more or less ministerial authority the announcement didn't say but we
can probably guess. If Glen Gilchrist is any indication, it probably had a
flavor of the 3rd reich. Gilchrist has made the following statement twice now
at our church area" When you hear me[telling you something] you should see Jesus
Christ standing right next to me [backing me up].

The above quote was made in response to the latest gathering of LCG henchmen where they were lectured by Winnail about ministerial authority and church government.

This person does not think too highly of Winnail. You would think after all these years away from the mother church these little harlot daughters would have learned not to be abusive and controlling, but no. Power, control and submission are the only things these splinter cults know. They have no other means of keeping their members in check. It certainly does not involve the love of Jesus and unconditional grace. Imagine that!

Did anyone catch announcements the other week about the ministerial
conference? Dr. Winnail said that they focused on "church government and
ministerial authority" this year at the conference. I'm sure they were telling
the ministers to use less of both and use more "servant leadership", because HQ
would never want a minister to ABUSE his power or over emphasize church
government in order to try to CONTROL his congregation.

LCG seems to be losing members left and right. On the LCG Yahoo group (now deleted) many of the members have stopped attending LCG because of the heavy handedness and outright lies. More and more of Lord MerryDeath's henchmen are flexing their limp wrists in trying to control members and they have been found to be weaklings.

Your Spouse Has Alzheimers: It's Ok to Divorce Her/Him

Pat Robertson on what you should do if you spouse or partner gets Alzheimers:





I bet his wife was glad to hear this........

Radio Interview of Benjamin Grant Mitchell on Life in Armstrongism

Growing up in a Doomsday cult

listen now download audio

Benjamin Grant Mitchell
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Until he was 10 years old Benjamin Grant Mitchell lived with the notion that the end of the world was imminent.
He and his family were part of the notorious Worldwide Church of God, run by the equally notorious Herbert W. Armstrong.
Now Benjamin has written a novel based on his early experiences growing up in a doomsday cult.

If audio above does not work checkout this link Podcast

Dave Pack on James Moffatt and Adam Clarke = Ignorant Men

Isn't it wonderful that we have such amazing ministers in the Church of God who have all the secret hidden knowledge of the Bible that the world does not comprehend?  If people were not so stupid they would understand that the Bible is all about clean and unclean meats, keeping Saturday sabbath, Holy days, mold, mixed fabrics, hair length, who real apostles and prophets are, an on and on the list could go.  Our ministers have so much knowledge that men like James Moffatt and Adam Clarke are idiots in comparison.  In fact they ARE idiots because while the produced a Bible and a Concordance, they were too stupid to understand what they interpreted and categorized.

Dave Pack has this to say about James Moffatt and Adam Clarke:

One such individual was James Moffatt. He translated a commendable version of the Bible. Yet the message went completely over his head. He made the truth of God much more clear, but he—along with the whole world—remained blinded to its meaning. 

Even in the preface to the revised and final edition of Moffatt’s The Bible, A New Translation, he made the following comments: “This is great literature and great religious literature, this collection of ancient writings which we call the Bible, and any translator has a deep sense of responsibility as he undertakes to transmit it to modern readers.” Here was an individual of great intelligence. Yet without God’s Spirit and guidance, he considered the Bible mere literature.

Adam Clarke, writer of the famous six-volume commentary of the entire Bible, also did not get the message. Some of the Pharisees were individuals of great intellect who studied Scripture for endless hours—yet all in vain. If these and other such men of great intellect failed to get the message, we should never assume that we could study the Bible and, on our own, automatically understand it.

Stupid imbeciles!  If only you had Dave Pack's mind boggling knowledge you would have understood your own Bible and Commentary!  From Pack's "12 Stupid Rules To Ruin A Study of the Bible."

Dave Pack: Owner of the World's Largest Biblical Site??????????????

Dave Pack, Armstrongisms' most belligerent know-it-all minister has been off pimping himself out to Israel and Jordan.  Imaging the tithe money it took to fly him and his crew off to film and tour Israel and Jordon. Money is of no consequence when one is trying to imitate Herbert Armstrong.

I find it funny that he did not venture out to see the Peace Park that Herbert Armstrong used tithe money to fund back in the 80's.  The Peace park fell into disrepair from vandalism and age, so Lord Six-Pack dumped a lot of tithe money into refurbishing the park.  That really must have galled Packman to be one-upped by Gerald Flurry, a fellow cult leader.

You can read about this amazing journey to Israel and Jordan here:  David C. Pack Received by Officials in the Middle East

One of the funny things on his web site is his link to his new book on prophecy.  He boasts that his web site is one of the largest in the world where it comes to biblical matters.  Liar, lair, pants on fire!

The SS Guards at Philadelphia Church of God have laid down the law for those dumb enough to attend one of their 'feast" sites.  Mark Nash tells PCG members how they will be behaving.

You unclean  women had better make sure that your bathing suits dare not show even the slightest bit of cleavage!

Swimsuit Dress Code

One-piece swimsuits are the standard. The cut should not run too high up the thigh. A safe guideline would be for it to approximately follow the natural crease in the groin. Also, be sure it completely covers the buttocks in the back. Tankinis are unacceptable unless the two pieces are sewn or tacked together so that they don’t come apart and expose the midsection. Swimsuits can be worn with skirts or shorts over them, but this is not required of our ladies. Lastly, as with shirts, no cleavage should be exposed.

Pregnant Women

Expecting mothers should use wisdom when making plans to attend the Feast of Tabernacles. There are certain “heightened risks” to your baby involved with travel. Many airlines post restrictions or advice on their websites that you can review to help make a more informed decision. You might also consult with your caregiver for answers to specific questions you might have. Also, if you have questions or concerns, we highly recommend you counsel with your local minister. As a basic rule, the Church discourages any pregnant woman from attending the Feast if she will be four weeks or less from her due date by the end of the Feast of Tabernacles. As Mr. Armstrong said in a letter to the Church back in 1962, “Don’t risk miscarriage of a precious life! Remember, God does not lay the same stress on attendance of women as He does men. USE WISDOM!”

Women are meant to stay at home and be baby machines.  Only real "converted" men are require dot go to Jerusalem.

Caring for Sick Children

Please use wisdom and be considerate of others in health-related matters as you make plans to attend the Feast. The following is an excerpt from a letter by Herbert W. Armstrong, dated Sept. 14, 1962: “Many members have been inexcusably careless and inconsiderate by bringing sick children to the festivals—and also to local Church services on the Sabbaths. Frequently children are brought with whooping cough, measles, mumps, flu, chicken pox and other contagious diseases. Other members’ children have been exposed and come down with these diseases because of this. This must stop!!! If your child has even been exposed within two weeks before coming, don’t bring him. If your child is sick, call upon God through one of His ministers for healing—or write to headquarters for an anointed cloth. But do not, under any circumstances, bring such a child until you can actually see that he has been completely healed. When anointed, have faith—believe—but if God does give you a test of faith, do not bring the child on the strength of that faith. Let him be healed on the strength of your faith, but do not bring him to any Church meeting or festival until every physical symptom is gone and the healing is complete. Moses expelled those with communicable diseases from the camp of Israel. We shall have to do likewise, in fairness to other children. I am sincerely sorry it is necessary, but some few seem to want to reason their way around a Church order like this, and disobey, on the way they reason it out. Any who are in that way inconsiderate of others will have to be swiftly expelled. If your child is taken with such a disease while at the Feast, call a minister at once, and ask him not only for anointing, but whether the child must be isolated or taken home.”

So what happens if you are weak in faith?  Your child will continue to suffer?  Your little child has to suffer because you failed to recognize that Six Pack is an agent of God and therefore your child was not healed in order to teach you a lesson?

Name Badges

Name badges will be required for everyone who is 18 (and out of high school) and older who will be attending Feast of Tabernacles services in North America. These pre-printed name badges can be obtained at the information table prior to opening night services on Wednesday, October 12, from 4 to 7 p.m. Please plan to arrive early so that you have plenty of time to get your name badge before the business office closes at 7 p.m. Everyone is expected to wear his or her badge; please cooperate and wear yours. If you are told to go get your badge, do not argue or make excuses. The security or ushering personnel are simply following rules made for the benefit of the brethren and the Church, and so should we all. Many have commented on how they appreciate the name badges. They help remind us of the names of the brethren. Please wear your name badge to services, and if you happen to misplace yours, the business office at each site will make a replacement for you. Keeping your badge in your briefcase or purse outside services will help you to keep track of it and prevent you from misplacing or losing it.

Counsel

At the Feast, you will come into contact with the ministry. But remember, God’s Feast is not a time to “shop around” for other ministers’ counsel. Counseling is provided at each site to resolve issues that come up during the Feast. It is not provided to handle problems that can wait until you speak with your local minister at home, nor to get a “second opinion” on something you have already counseled about. When there is a need, please seek the minister assigned to counseling; that is why he is there. Just be sure it is not something you can wait on to counsel directly with your own minister about when you return home.

Sieg heil mein fuhrer