Van Robison on WCG Splinter Group Lords of Control

WCG Splinter Group Lords of Control

What exactly gives any WCG splinter group overlord, the right to have control of any splinter group?
You guessed it, absolutely nothing.  Those who assume the posture of control as if they speak for
Jesus Christ or represent God to others, are among the most vain and egotistical of human beings on
planet earth.

Even you or I could form our own group if we were vain enough to want power and control over others. So why does anyone follow a WCG splinter group overlord?    In my opinion it is because an awful lot of people are just plain LAZY human beings and unwilling to educate themselves.  Knowledge and information is readily available in our age of computer technology and so there is
really no excuse to be led about with a hook in the lip, by unscrupulous and extremely vain men, who playact as if they are sent from God to rule over others.

Preachers by the thousands stand before people, with a book in their hand (called "the Bible") and quote from it as if it is God.  Well folks, the Bible is not God and God is not the bible.  Literally billions of human beings are held captive for life, by ink on paper and those who stand before them
quoting ink on paper, as if God is the author.  Well, which "Holy" book is really from God?  There are many so called "Holy" books in this world and none of them are alike.

The bible is actually interpreted in thousands of different ways and anyone who is a mesmerized WCG splinter group church goer, would be astounded to learn how others see the bible,
should such people be willing to remove themselves from their splinter group mind-prison.

It is highly doubtful that anyone who is willing to experiment and exit their WCG splinter group environment, and be exposed to mind-shattering other beliefs, would ever return to their former ways.  Jesus came to set the captives FREE and all WCG splinter groups are religious prisons,
which is true of all religious cults.  No overlord of any group is God in the flesh, nor are they "apostles", "prophets" or "pastors."  What they really are, are frauds using the name of God/Jesus Christ or the excuse of "preaching the Gospel to the world", while all the time, they are really counting the free tithe $money in their bank accounts, as HWA did.

In the end Herbert W. left behind all his mansions, his fine arts, his jet airplanes, his luxuries and his bank accounts, just as ALL WCG splinter group heads will also.  Why follow a looser?  Jesus is free, salvation is free, eternal life is free, the forgiveness of sins cannot be paid for by $cash or credit
card and anyone who makes you think that you "must" tithe to them, is a LIAR and THIEF for ulterior motives.


Van Robison

James Malm Says Bob Thiel and Other COG Leaders Are Cavorting With Demons

Poor Bob, the guy can never get any respect!

At this point we exclaim how terrible it is to seek out a familiar spirit [demon] about the future or anything else.  Yet we do exactly the same thing in the church of God groups!  What do I mean with the statement?  I mean that whenever we study the teachings of false religions of worldly men and apply then to keep them instead of going to the word of God; we are turning our backs on the word of God to consul with familiar spirits [demonic] spirits.  

There is even one man who left LCG a year ago who styles hiself a prophet, who voraciously seeks out and studies the prophecies of any false religion that he can find, in order to find support for his own false prophecies. 

David C Pack: The RCG IS The Most Peacfeul, Loving Church of God Eveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reading Dave's grandiose description of his personality cult are a thing to behold.  There has never been, in the course of human history, a Church of God as unified, loving and happy as the Restored Church of God.

I don't think the myriad of people that Dave has kicked out of the RCG would feel the same.  I am sure the families ripped apart by Dave's insane jealousy wouldn't agree either.  Pitting children against parents and husbands against wives, is not a sign of love and respect.  Having children employed by the church go home and spy on their mother is not a sign of love and respect either.

While Dave's cult compound revels in love and peace, they are also casting out the demons that have taken over Church members.  Other miracles are happening in Dave's group also, that none of the other splinters can claim.  God loves Dave's group better than all the others!

Every other single splinter group in existence is nothing more than dens of inequity, misery, death and damnation.

I never cease to be sad when I think of how others could experience what we do on a daily basis all through God’s Church—and in so many ways. The peace, happiness, love, extraordinary unity of doctrine and purpose, zeal, unrelenting sacrifice, efficiency and production—so much wonderful FRUIT!—are almost physically palpable in God’s Church. And none of this speaks to demons cast out, other miracles, open doors, blessings and incredible GROWTH in all categories. Yet leaders of the splinters so often describe our daily environment as the very OPPOSITE of what it is. (Effective deceivers are wise enough to know they must not let their followers know the truth of what they are missing.)

David C Pack Says, "Look at Me! Mine's Bigger Than All Of Yours Combined!"

For Dave, it is all about numbers.  For Dave, it is not about people restored to a new life in Christ, but instead a numbers game.  He who has the biggest numbers is the most important.  Like Bob Thiel, Pack loves to use his web hits as an indication on the grand scope of his personality cult.  Pack is not gaining living bodies as members as he still is circulating at around 2,500-3,000 semi-warm bodies.

But how is one to KNOW who is right and who is wrong?—who is a deceiver and who is true? How can you know if I am a charlatan, or the leader of God’s Church? Christ would never leave His people without a standard—an index, a method, a ruler, a WAY of measuring what is true and what is not! Of measuring who is true and who is not!

Growth is the greatest indicator of fruit. (The list below includes other indicators.) Each category forms another fruit one can measure. In this regard, The Restored Church of God is without peer in every category of measurement!

David C Pack Says Top Ministers In Various COG's are Demon Inspired

Poor Dave.  Try as he might he still cannot draw people in from the various COG's.  He blames this issue upon the leaders of the various COG's.  It sees these men have told their members to ignore the lunatic rantings of Dave, and the brethren have.  In light of Dave's epic failure with the grand reunification last fall, this is particularly galling to Dave.

Tragically, most fall prey to devil-inspired attacks upon, and deceit about, God’s one Church coming from the top men in their organizations (but also other ministers) until it is too late for them to recover. Why does no one believe Christ’s FOUR explicit warnings, just in Matthew 24, about “many” at the end of the age who “deceive” in His name and gain “many” followers? The context makes plain He is not speaking of the world.

I don't think it is an issue with people believing the words of Jesus Christ.  The problem lies when it comes from the mouth of a narcissistic abuser.  That is what turns people off.  All the scripture quoting in the world will not bring people to Dave's side of the camp.

David C Pack Whines About Dress Standards in ALL the Church of God's

Because so many in the various COG's dress like whores, they have moved BEYOND the Laodicean era into oblivion! Apparently the United Church of God has reached this point on their church journey.  They have left Laodicea behind.....probably like the behind above.....

The United Church of God becomes a case in point. This organization has been marching directly back to the world for the almost 19 years of its existence. (I explain this in detail in many places. Dress standards alone in ALL of the groups are blinking neon lights to those with observant “eyes to see” that this march is happening everywhere—that many are even moving beyond Laodicea.) United’s journey is almost complete. Obviously, they deny this. But has anyone ever seen, or even heard of, a single church on Earth—EVEN ONE!—that admits it is of this world? Of course not. That United’s leaders are now working in a “cooperative” tandem with a large group that Mr. Armstrong’s son led away in rebellion over 35 years ago is merely the latest outrage they commit against God, Mr. Armstrong’s legacy and their docile membership who are so willing to let them get away with their deceit. This deception necessarily involves what they say about me and God’s true Church and Work! (That Mr. Armstrong’s long-time, professed-to-be-loyal assistant leads UCG’s charade and no one calls him on it is appalling. But none can confront when they are pushing from behind.)

David C Pack Sends New Superfantabulous Letter To The Entire Church of God. Woo Hoo!

David C. Pack is back today with a new letter to the "brethren" that he was humiliated in front of this past Feast of Tabernacles.  When his epic prophecy of a grand reunification failed to happen, Dave went sulking off with his tail between his legs into utter silence.  He quickly became the laughing stock of the entire Church of God.

Ever the narcissist he is, Dave had to announce last week that he was writing a letter to be released today.  If he was a humble servant leader, he would have just written a letter and been done with it, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, he had to announce that he was writing one.

Today he writes his most superfantabulous letter EVER!!!!  Brethren, it is LOADED!!!!!!!!!!

For five years, starting after 2009, I have written an Open Letter about The Restored Church of God to all of God’s people. This will be the longest and most inspiring of the five. You will want to read every paragraph—each one is loaded!

He then starts in on the wretchedness of humanity, as if we have not heard that before.  He is incapable of talking about the beauty that surrounds him and that exists in this world. Instead he describes the current state of hte Church of God.

The Church of God is utterly failing-in EVERYTHING!  Never before has the COG been filled with sooooooooooo many problems. Each year that goes by, more and more issues arise.  The COG is getting worse and worse.  Splinter after splinter  arises with more and more self-appointed leaders.

As 2014 arrived, 2013 had brought one proof after another that humanity is utterly failing—in EVERYTHING! Never before has the world been more filled with problems. With the passing of time—and now another year by man’s calendar is upon us—come ever more issues, not less—NEVER less. Existing problems grow collectively worse instead of better—all of them. Each day brings new stories of disease, poverty, war and rumors of war, terrorism, crime, crises, violence, natural disasters, hunger, immorality—indeed amorality—religious confusion, oppression, political upheaval and corruption, financial woes, division between and within nations, and so much more. At every turn, man is botching and mangling ALL of his efforts to solve the world’s greatest problems—problems that only the arrival of the KINGDOM OF GOD can solve. No world leader and certainly not any pope can bring this.

 Dave then proceeds to call all the various splinter groups out as blithering morons who are incapable of doing anything as mighty as he is.  No one can be as magnificent and superfantabulous as he is.

The year 2013 was truly like none other for The Restored Church of God! God’s Work is BOOMING—and in almost every category! Yet ALL the organizations (small, medium and large) that formed from the Worldwide Church of God in the wake of the apostasy grew very little or not at all in 2013! In fact many declined in size and income, and in virtually all well-established categories of measuring fruit. (One medium-sized group just imploded, with many of its ministers leaving in recent days.) God is supplying no fruit in their organizations—and since He is NOT leading them, the growth never comes. But The Restored Church of God DOES have the fruit—TREMENDOUS fruit!—that the other organizations lack.

Dave still for some reason refuses to release how many people actually joined up with him.  None of the splinter groups are recording huge loses to him, membership wise.  If he is going by web statistics, then they can be interpreted many different ways, such as what Bob Thiel has done to legitimize his miniscule "work."  Dave has already been proven to be a lair, why should we trust him with statistics?

Dave realizes that most in the various COG's look at him as a complete fool and knows that they will ignore his most vital superfantabulous message. Shame on them!

If you are in the United Church of God (UCG), Living Church of God (LCG), Philadelphia Church of God (PCG), Church of God, a Worldwide Association (COGwa), or any other splinter or sliver that came out of the WCG, this will be among the most important reports you will ever read. But think as you read. So sadly, great numbers of brethren have become content to let their leaders do their thinking for them—and with ETERNAL LIFE at stake! This letter will not help such ill-informed, easily seduced, “obedient” people.

Dennis Muses on the Emperor's New Clothes

Mr. Generalities...

Apostle Pack Dazzles All Others with RCG Growth

but in theology and Biblical understanding perhaps The Emperor With No Clothes?

http://rcg.org/sep/rcg_fruits_2014.html

I can only speak for myself of course but there would be several  burning realities to me that Dave seems to miss and be oblivious to.

1.  Does the Apostle Pack really understand the message of the New Testament and my answer would be no.

Part B.  Does the Apostle Dave understand the history, mythology and politic of the Old Testament and again I would say hardly.

2.  Does the Apostle Pack understand the differences in belief between the Jewish Church under Peter, James and John towards which he tends, and the revolution the self appointed Apostle Paul started to deconstruct that point of view.  My answer is no.  

3.  Does the Apostle Pack understand how foolish it was and still is of him to place himself in the context of the Old Testament as the Joshuah of Zerubbabel fame in Haggai?   My answer is no.  This is foolish and delusional fairytale destroys his message and twists the NT intent 

4.  Does the Apostle Dave understand the politic of the New Testament?  My answer is no therefore he will never get the messages they contain right

5.  Does the Apostle Pack understand that no one on this earth really ordained him an Apostle or even an Evangelist except himself and this makes him an unbroken chain of one .  While the Apostle Paul did the same thing in the NT, it is the very reason Paul was rejected in the Book of Revelation by the Ephesian Jewish Christian Church, which he claims to understand more than any others. (He doesn't)

6.  Does the Apostle Dave have any clue the plan of God is not a mere 6000 years of "human history"?  No he does not.  He's a mere Bible reader and that badly.  Has he ever read a theological journal or studied evolutionary science?  Herbert Armstrong never did and Ted gave away millions of  Theories for the Birds and Whales of Tales only to be found dead wrong in every conclusion.  Numbers mean nothing if the information is bogus

7.  Does the Apostle Dave understand the difference between mythologies, analogies, allegories and midrashic writing?  I don't think so.  Therefore he will literalize things which were never mean what meanings he gives them and thus be inaccurate in his conclusions. 

8.  Does the Apostle Dave and his sheep understand that if he was still selling health foods and vitamins, his year end report would be equally as general and awesome as he compared himself to Whole Foods or Trader Joes?

9.  Doe the Apostle Dave realize that there are Mega Churches all around him that can boast much more in membership locally than he does worldwide?  They also have ten figure incomes and are actually liked by the communities they are willing to serve in.   Nope!  Now if Dave can draw tens of thousands to his local Sabbath Services, that might be different.  But spreading the numbers around the planet to people who probably don't know the man or his ways with those who actually join is a fake church and following.  Like Pasadena, the closer you get to the source, the higher the drama and trauma index and the higher the drop out rate.  Does he really not understand statistics mean absolutely NOTHING spiritually?  Perhaps, as the original "inventor" of the Plain Truth Distribution Program  (not really) he could set his own literature out in public starting in Wadsworth.  I bet I know how that would go.

10.  Does the Apostle Dave realize he is not trained well enough in Biblical studies to tell everyone  the mind of his God?  Sad to say...no.  

The Apostle Dave is , as so many fundamentalist and COG ministers,  a mere Bible reader and never had a serious doubt in their life about the story they have woven in their heads about the mind of God as spoken through themselves.  It will catch up with them in time.

11:  Does the Apostle Dave understand the conflict and turmoil he has caused over the years in his trail of tears?   Nope

12:  Does the Apostle Dave understand that extorting money through threats and promoting false Biblical agendas is wrong?  Does he understand "the Prophecy" is not "on" at all and if he picks it up in the Spring to motivate the brethren it will blow up twice?  Does he believe in "Once burned, twice burned?"

"Jesus" words to the Ephesian Church in Revelation 2 might do here.

2 

These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lamp stands. ² I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. ³ You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.

Dave to the World:  I am an Apostle

Jesus to the Ephesians/Wadsworthians/Buffalonians/ Rochestarians etc:  "You have tried those who say they are Apostles and are have found them wanting and false..."

Ephesians to Dave Pack:   "No you aren't"

Jesus to Ephesians:  "Well done......"

2014: 4 Time Cycles Later and HWA Still Is Dead

Today is the 28th anniversary of HWA's death.  Every year some Armstrongites believe HWA will be resurrected and come back to whip the church back into shape.  The only problem now is, which campus will he return to and to which church.

Herbert Armstrong Goes to His Reward

God's True Leaders Are Allowed To Have Facial Hair

An HWA College student sent me this.  It seems that God's most holy and most important Evangelist ever to exist, who has an apartment in Jerusalem so he can be there when the Beast Power takes over, has gown a beard.  Because God's greatest man Stevie Flurry can grow one, it has given other PCG "men" the balls to do the same.

Now all we need is to see Dennis Leap in a beard!  Gag!  Puke!

PCG Singles Disgusted By Planetarium Presentation

Those wild and crazy singles in the Philadelphia Church of God had a singles weekend at the end of December.  Activities included a trip to the Science Museum Oklahoma, bowling, or a trip to a trampoline park. Bowling and Bouncing

Those that went to the museum were subjected to the evil theories of evolution, dinosaurs, and the most disgusting of heathen traditions, the Christmas star, tree, the wise men and other delightful things. I think that maybe they should have stayed and actually learned something truthful for once instead of the canned bullshit from the church  "leaders" about these things. However, as martyrs for the truth, it was more important to take a stand and walk out bitching and whining about their delicate sensibilities being trampled upon.  Armstrongism has breed generations of  uneducated wimps

It was interesting when about 14 of us got up and walked out of the Planetarium after the guide gave us a run down of what we’d be learning about: Santa Claus, Christmas, the tree, the “star of wonder”, the wise men, etc. The other things to do and see at the Science Museum were fun though. I was off trying to solve a crime in the crime lab:)

COG Cult Leader Proclaims: Paranoid Apocalypses Cult Leaders Continue to Deceive!

Only in the world of Armstrongism can you have a leader of a splinter cult declare all other leaders as paranoid, while he himself makes hundreds of paranoid, silly prophecies.

Eric King has this great headline up today in his latest blog post: 

Paranoid Apocalypses Cult Leaders continue to Deceive!

He then starts out with this, which is a perfect description of himself!

Throughout the ages there have always appeared strange men and or women claiming to be “messengers” of God. They have left devastation in their paths. These deranged cult leaders were prophesied to come. Jesus Christ warned us about them. Here Mr. E.W.King gives us some insight about this issue and just where these false cult leaders lose touch with reality. This is a must read! Read and Share:

_____________________________

Sadly many people today involved in the “world of religion” are simply sitting in some cult following some ‘guru’. They sadly put all of their trust in their leader. Some do not have a specific leader but instead have put their complete trust in some form of Protestantism or Catholicism. Others feel safe with putting trust in what they call a “non-denominational church”.  Really all of these groups are doing the same thing, putting trust in error and in mere man. ~

He then blasts all those that give false dates.  I am assuming he means Herbert W Armstrong, Rod Meredith, David C Pack, Gerald Waterhouse, Dean Blackwell, Gerald Flurry, Herman Hoeh, and a myriad of other COG leaders.  I mean, who else can he be talking about?????  Cough, cough.....

 Roman Catholics will point to the Pope and the fallen Protestants will point to Martin Luther and an assortment of what they call “reformers” to found the authority of their religion. The true Church of God points to Jesus Christ as its founder and doctrine giver. What is very sad is that people who are caught up in these false religions are being “spiritually murdered”. The cult leaders of the past and present are simply monsters - murderers who commit massacres and false miracles. Most all the deranged cult leaders give false times and dates which they say a “doomsday” will commence. ~

What they have done is taken a Truth from Jesus Christ and twisted it for their own glory and satisfaction. There is in fact a so called “doomsday” coming. Jesus Himself told us this but He also told us that nobody knows the EXACT DATE AND TIME of that event. Cult leaders use fear to control their members. Sadly, in many of the offshoot and splinter groups of the true Church of God we find “leaders” doing this very thing. ~

Since Herbert W Armstrong was a failed prophet, with hundreds of failed prophesies he predicted or allowed to go out on his behalf, how then can King's new and improved Worldwide Church of God be true?

Dennis Muses: Countdown to Awesome

We are just hours now from the awesome yearly "Fruits Report" from Apostle Dave Pack.  "By their fruits you shall know them" is probably one of the overused cliche in COGdom.  The Church and Grand Master with the biggest fruits basket wins.  Of course the Third Reich had incredible "Fruits" as well in the years leading up to the rot and I think we all are wise enough to know that looking at "fruits" of any institution (good word for RCG etc) or company is a slippery slope of relativity.  The military can boast amazing progress as can the porn industry.  Cigar companies can prove their worth by their statistics and sales.  Drug dealers can claim awesome fruits from selling.  I mean man...look at my stuff!

Fruit can be deceiving

It is really easy to spend the hard earned monies of others on one's own view of themselves, their importance  and "visionary thinking."   It's easy, when one claims some kind of weird financial authority over others to buy yourself  The Cup of Elijah Steuben Crystal for your office and think somehow that is the fruit of your labor or you even need the damn thing.  Having others, who probably already have given more than they should work on pet projects whether it be a "Church Home" or a brand spanking new redo of an old failed college, volunteer their skill to save money is not "fruit."  It's forced labor with consequences in subtle and not so subtle forms should one say no.  

God raises up Ambassador # 3 ?

Students help rebuild "God's College" ?

Using the Bible to command unreasonable giving to unreasonable men is unreasonable.  Anyone without a conscience can pepper people with Bible quotes about "giving" and tithing and claim the all powerful  and all motivating "God says..." to get it done well.  It's a very old conscious or unconscious way of getting what some want from the brethren.  Few realize no God said that.  Priests say that and write it and enforce it.  Gods don't really need money.  God needs no college, no basketball teams, no nice lawns or jets.  God certainly needs no Steuben or mahogany trim.  Men need that.  It's only when the man thinks he speaks for God that he can get away with having it.  A God with Good News doesn't even need middlemen if they would just show up themselves and inform humanity of His/Her plan and rewards, but alas, we're stuck with salesmen who all have different forms of the product to sell.  Each of course being the true product with all the necessary and true attachments .  "It's not religion.  It's the TRUTH," is all too often like saying, "It's not a vacuum cleaner!  It's a cleaning system."    Uh huh....and it costs how much?

I had a brother in law whose family was a very long time WCG family experience the WCG Treasurer walk past him while he was on the gardening crew and say..."Just think, if it wasn't for me, you'd not have a job."  The student said nothing but "And just think...if it wasn't for my parents, you'd not have yours" came my mind.  God was gracious to that treasurer by picking the wrong student to be stupid to.  He could have said the same thing in spades because of all the sacrifice his family had made over decades to WCG.  

Make no mistake.  The Flurrys, Packs, Weinlands and all others who make merchandise of people are not spending "God's money" to dazzle you with the fruits of "God's work" under their leadership.  They are spending your money and unearned at that.  Being told to send it in, cough it up, give til it hurts, and all the utter foolishness and hubris we have seen and heard from an Apostle Dave Pack, for example, is ludicrous. 

Please recall how David C Pack gets paid for his hard work.  Hardly the stuff of "God loves a cheerful giver."  Dave reads that "threatened", "badgered", "guilted and shamed", "non-thinking" giver. 

"Yeah, I know, one or two can leave and say, 'Hey, you stopped preaching and started meddling, now you're messing with my goods here on earth' "

"First Timothy 6 verse 17...'Charge them that are rich in this world'...If you were born in the United States, Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, then you're rich"

"If you hold those riches, I'm telling you, you trust in them"
No...I went to the ant and learned to save

"Go get a big chunk out of your home. And put your money where your mouth is and send it here. And I'm not talking about one, two, three thousand either. How about ten, twenty, thirty, fifty, or one hundred thousand dollars? Go do it."

"Wives, you can be independent in this. You have 1/2 the worth of whatever you have in your house.

I'm officially telling you this...Wives, legally you have the 1/2 the funds. What are you going to do about it?...Husbands...'well, my wife is not in the church'...tell her...'you don't have a voice woman' "

So, a RCG woman has 1/2 the assets to send Dave.  A non-RCG woman just needs to be told to shut up...

"Go get those assets and get them here"

"Don't sit on vast resources that we can use now"
"I" can use them now

"We are not a splinter"
Correct.  You are a sliver with a big mouth

"I do not covet your silver or gold...the gold and silver is God's and He will get it someway"
Is that a threat?  He will get it someway?   Is your God trying to figure this out and can't?  

"We do not have the funds...plans...bookstores...We need to redesign our website...We need many hundreds of thousands of dollars to arrive at God's headquarters soon...the timing is now"
Oh that timing thing again!  But the giving is "on" right?

"This is different...ask Him for the faith to liquidate certain assets and give it to the work"

"I'll say it again, we are talking about liquidating existing assets...it all belongs to God and the brethren"
Well I am a brethren so I'll just keep my part in the bank.  

"We have a lot of plans so big going on in this office it would cause just this room to to rock and gyrate if you knew what was going on. We just need a lot of money and we need it post haste...I would give more if I had it"
So would I, but I don't,  so end of story...

"Herbert Armstrong wrote an article...'Prepare to greatly reduce your standard of living'...What he wrote by far, is more for us now than it was then... its all going to be taken away from us anyway brethren"

"There will be follow-up sermons. Time to bring in related points"
Oh I am sure.  

"Let us know how much you plan to send and when you plan to send it...You must be willing to communicate... If you do need to counsel, please do that...If you are not ready to distribute what you have...you don't believe the flow of prophecy"
That flow of prophecy kinda screwed you up in 2013 didn't it?  

"This is announcing the last blast, the clarion call as it were, to finish the work...Whether it is 4,5,7, 9 years to go, God knows...This is liquidating assets...I have the authority to tell you to do it... I have the moral and spiritual, and ecclesiastical authority to tell you to do what I have also done"
The hell you do...

"Get it now when it requires faith... when you are dead you don't need it... if you named us in your wills, it can take us months or years to get it"
Correct, and I am not dead yet so I need it....what stupid kind of reasoning is this?  Sounds Haggai-esque 

"The wives in the faith will say give everything you can...We don't have the luxury of waiting years...today, leaving everything in your will simply doesn't work"
Great!  I won't do it then.

"Now you just have a second mortgage... and frankly we flee before most of it ever becomes due"
"...some may think that they want to tap their 401k--maybe you want to let us know that... why would you want to tell us? We are starting to prepare a budget now, the needs are now...it would be nice to know now"
Call your bank and ask if this is ok.....

"Think big...Pull big triggers"

"There is only two positions you can take regarding all that I have mentioned, only two, there is no middle ground. You're either going to yield, to submit and to follow, the clarion call that the time is now or you're not. And postponing a decision is deciding not to do it...It's saying I'm going to wait until it gets closer because it is not there yet...Don't say that I'm going to wait until it gets closer, when I can see...The decision is that my treasure stays on earth or I goes to heaven. Period. I will not lay up for times to come or I will. And this is the real test of Laodicea... either hold on to your assets... or give it...God is in this decision, no question. Testing the church's faith"

"We live in the most materialistic age in the history of the world. People trust in physical things. They trust in bank accounts...If you have excess and don't need it, those verses mean you...That's the Laodicean attitude...Put your money where your mouth is...Empty your assets"
Getting kinda rude there aren't you Dave?

"There is only one place He works...Where the...work is...that's where God is working...one elder commented here at headquarters, if people can't be motivated by a clarion call to finish the work such as this, why will those same people somehow believe the internal signal given to the church of the 1335? Why would they believe it?"
"This is the Laodicean age...Be careful that you don't tell us how to spend your assets... It belongs to God.. You don't tell God or His servants how to spend it"
You be careful Dave....That kind of talk is going to arouse the Attorney General of Ohio

"Your faith is being tested. Think about that"

"We will all fast on November 17th...I have to...ask you for a very special financial sacrifice for God's work"

"The purposes of the fast...(a). To fast for God's intervention...(b).Fast for personal faith and courage to follow what I am asking you to do...(c). Fast for personal strength...(d)...Fast for faith and courage in others with more than you to give...Go get a big chunk out of your house...their assets, IRAs, and pension funds...(e). Ask God to move specific properties...that they have told us they want to sell. Pray that these properties move...that is part of what this fast is about"

The Clarion Call

David C Pack

Truly in the history of the Churches of God there has never been a more obscene sermon given.  Why it did not make the Wadsworth Whatever or the Akron Beacon Journal is beyond me.  It's not funny.  It's not interesting thinking.  It's not what the Bible says.  It's not a man earning his keep and reaping the fruits of his labor.  It's stealing and lying.  It's motivation by shame, fear and guilt which is the Holy Trinity of religion that has less than your best interest in mind.  True spirituality costs nothing because it is an inside job.  It flows from inside the person outward.  Religion is what others pour into your head.  It is "Organized" and has "goals" that must be met.  It has corporate fruits to produce to prove its worth.  It tells you what to believe , when to show up to believe it and how much to give to keep the show on the road.  And it is insane.  

Custom  Built Gyration Chairs for Restored Church of God Headquarters

(paid for by the generous donations of its membership worldwide)

So hold on to your seats.  Tomorrow we all will be gyrating in them and in absolute awe over the  awesome fruits of brought forth by Dave Pack who thinks, mistakenly, a little more highly of himself as he ought to think and does it spending the money of others that has been extorted from them by threat, false claims and a very skewed view of what the Bible, it's history and politic actually say.  Making something mean what it never meant and demanding to be paid for it is stealing and a mockery of true spirituality and religion whatever one's views might be personally on such topics in life. 

The Third Reich had awesome fruits too...until it didn't.   So did Herbert W Armstrong for a time and we all know how that worked out. 

Why Do COG Members Continue To Trust Leaders Who Continue to Abuse Them?

A reader on Malm's blog had this to say in one of the comments today.  This is the same question that has been asked for decades and people continue to allow the ministry to abuse and use them.  When COG members get frustrated they jump ship to another group, and then to another, and then to another.  The abuse continues on and on.  Far too many never stop and look really deeply to see that the entire church is rotten to the core.

I am personally frustrated by both sides attempts to use us like pawns. We are real people with lives they are directly hurting. How do any believe and trust the men that have been the root cause for family division and pain?

Bob Thiel Thinks The Vatican Is None Too Pleased With Him. As If They Really Care!!!!!!!

It seems that Bob Thiel was in Rome a week or so ago doing some filming.  He was told by one official that he could not use a tripod to film in the square and then by another to not focus the camera upon himself for a long period of time.  Video filming was OK, but filming ones self preaching is not.  Who can really blame them!  Having Bob use the Vatican as aback drop for one of his crazy sermons is certainly off putting to anyone whether you are a Catholic or not!

The Vatican is probably sick of all the crazy American preachers coming over and  preaching about the Whore of Babylon and other stupidity while using the Vatican as a back drop.  Only American Evangelicals and weird American personalty cult leaders seem to do this.

Bob takes this one step further.  Bob feels that the Vatican knew who he was, out of all the thousands in the square that day, and specifically targeted him because of his anti-Catholic videos and books.  As if the Vatican gives a rat's ass about Bob!  Get over yourself dude!  Really!

01/13/14 p.m. Just got back from Europe. We did research, etc. in Southern Europe. While Rome seems the same, there has been a change in Vatican City.  On three occasions, we were told to stop videotaping while we were there.  First, we were told that the use of tripods in St. Peter’s Square, was not allowed.  But we were done there, so that was not a problem.  Then we were told we could not use one inside of St. Peter’s Basilica–and that was a problem.  Then we were told that while we could video, if too much of the video camera time was pointed at me, that was also not allowed.  Anyway, since they had none of those restrictions on us last June, it makes me wonder if someone there was less than pleased with the videos we put up at our YouTube channels about the Vatican.

And here we thought David C. Pack was a narcissist!

Ron Weinland, Imprisoned Felon, Commandment Breaker

Ron Weinlend, the Church of God's favorite imprisoned felon,  has been waxing poetic on the virtues of the ten commandments.  Of course he has to add his own perverted spin on the commandments.

Did you know that if you fellowship with a disfellowshipped person after they have been kicked out of the church that you are breaking ALL of the ten commandments?

Last Six Commandments
The last six commandments reveal how we are to think and live toward all other people. Though we (the Church) are to think and live toward others as God reveals by these commandments, the reality is that “true fellowship” can only be experienced among those who live the same way in return toward us. This obviously means that this can only be experienced within the environment of Church fellowship itself with those impregnated with God’s spirit and who have God’s spirit continually living (dwelling, abiding, remaining) in them. Those in the world around us cannot be expected to live toward us in the same way God requires that we live toward them.

So those who become disfellowshipped from a spiritual relationship with God, His Son, and His Church are separated from the one and only “true fellowship” that man can be offered in life. As we have already covered, anyone (in the Church) who then chooses to fellowship with someone whom God says not to – one disfellowshipped – then they break each of the first four commandments concerning how to have a right relationship with God. They also break each of the last six commandments, which reveal how we (in the Church) are to live in a right relationship toward anyone among mankind – that which we are to practice (live) toward them.

If that is true, then it is also appropriate to say that Ron Weinland has broken all ten of the commandments by being an imprisoned felon!  

Gerald Weston Shocks Living Church of God Members UPDATED

Gerald Weston, a minister in the Living Church of God, gave a sermon in November that caught the attention of many in his congregation LCG.  Some of the LCG members understood that the sermon was given because of defections and  massive grumbling going on in the Living Church of God.

 A reader here had this to say about the sermon:

Apparently many of the members of the congregation were appalled and deeply disappointed by the sermon. Gerald Weston was the pastor of this congregation through the 1980s-1990s and was visiting over Thanksgiving this year as he usually does. Weston was instrumental in leading this Kansas City WCG congregation into the Global Church of God, and so he is beloved by many there. Because of his leadership, his was the largest congregation in GCG and LCG up until recently when the Charlotte congregation surpassed it in attendance. He became famous shortly before he resigned from WCG when he stated in his final sermon in their employment, “I will not prostitute myself for a paycheck,” to which the congregation applauded. This makes the things he states in this sermon even more notable by contrast. Several years ago Weston was promoted to evangelist in LCG and installed as the head over the Canadian office, where he still maintains that position. He is also the main presenter for the Hong Kong version of the Tomorrow’s World telecast. This sermon is a perfect encapsulation of the level of cultism that is permeating the Living Church of God. The ministry searches the scriptures to find anything that can be used to maintain their authority over the membership.

Many LCG members are disillusioned that their prayers were NOT heard in regards to healing Mr.s Meredith.  Rod and COG tradition has always emphasized that if you prayed had enough God would hear and heal, particularly when it was a high profile person in the church.

 “And we have deaths from time to time. We’ll no doubt have some deaths in the next year; perhaps in this congregation – very likely, one or two. Although we never know exactly who it might be because sometimes it’s the younger ones instead of the older ones who you expect. Perhaps what makes the death of Mrs. Meredith a little unusual is the fact that she is high-profile, was high-profile. Many hundreds and thousands of people were praying for her. And perhaps it’s because Mr. Meredith has EMPHASIZED healing and faith. And so many may wonder, ‘Does God truly exist and hear our prayers. Does God indeed heal today? Is there something wrong with the church?’ Sometimes people worry about THAT. ‘Are we lacking in faith?’ These are some of the questions that we might have.  

One person who listened to sermon had this to say:

What he said about healing is pure craziness. So *I guess* we should thank God for not healing us and pray that he would continue to withhold healing, so that we can maintain our faith, because if he did heal us we would certainly lose faith. Of course we better add that "we know you can heal us God, but please be sparing with the healings". This is one part that appalled some of the folks, especially the ones who are suffering from some serious health issues. The ones I spoke with acted like they wanted to give him the big middle finger on that point.

UPDATE: 

The outrage from the members related specifically to the statements in the sermon such as, "But faith is the substance of things hoped for. Healing, for example, is one of the things we hope for. It’s not the only thing that we hope for, but it’s one. And it’s the evidence of that – we believe that God CAN HEAL – and we hope that he will heal in our particular case during this lifetime, and the sooner the BETTER. Consider if everyone was healed every time he got sick. The problem would be that it wouldn’t take faith would it? It would be something that we could see. What lesson would we learn?"

LCG is also having an issue with members leaving the church.

. I note that when one mate leaves the church how often another goes with that mate. It would seem like one might be strong – and, and sometimes we see that – but so often, when one leaves, the other leaves. And it shows that we follow other human beings, and are persuaded by other human beings far more than we’d like to admit to ourselves. ‘…be strong and very courageous, that you may observe to do according to all the law which Moses’ taught him to do. So he is telling ‘em to follow him and not follow the people in essence, and that takes FAITH to do it because there’s times when it doesn’t look like the thing to do; it’s easier to go along – to go with the flow.

LCG is also having a huge problem stemming the flow of information on the Internet that speaks negatively about the LCG and its leaders.  Weston is particularly incensed at James Malm and his blog, The Shining Light.  Malm is regularly fed information about issues in the LCG, UCG and other COG's by insiders who feel their respective church has lost its way.  Lots of information has been flowing over the last couple of years about LCG leadership power struggles.  The more they deny them the more  information it is that gets out.  The fact that Weston has to say that the LCG Council has to LAUGH at Malm and others show that they really ARE concerned.  By mocking Malm and others in a sermon in order to get a couple chortles out of naive members just goes to show how desperate and pathetic these men are.

00:12:32

There are times when it’s easy to complain, because after all, we are JUSTIFIED in our complaints because we’re only saying the TRUTH. We see something that happens and so we complain about it; we grumble about it. And if we go back to the accounts of where all this happened – they were complaining against Moses, against Aaron, against the leadership of the church. And how many times do we complain about the leadership of the church – the local leadership, maybe it’s a deacon, maybe it’s an elder, maybe it’s someone higher up. Maybe we hear a rumor some place and we just pick up and believe it without any fact whatsoever. We’ve got a fella up there in Canada – and, and I never hear about him until I come down to the States, and I always hear about him on Shining Light or something, and he’s, he’s always talking about what’s going on in the Living Church of God – I don’t know who he IS. I don’t know if he’s ever attended a service of ours. I don’t know where he supposedly gets his information – he’s always talking about a, a great power struggle that’s taking place i-in the church. And he gets even more specific than that and, and it’s RIDICULOUS – it really is ridiculous. And those of us who sit on the Council simply laugh about it. And yet here’s somebody out there saying that, and people get on the internet and they’ll believe the INTERNET. Someone that they’ve never met – someone that they don’t KNOW. But there’s somebody out here and they’ll believe it, and then they’ll pick up on the grumbling and the complaining. 

You would think after 80 some years of the church being in existence that they would stop fighting over make-up, eating out in restaurants on Saturdays and smoking.  

I love the fact he brought up smoking.  I know some LCG ministers and a couple higher up's that enjoy a good cigar every once in a while.  Is Weston talking a jab at them?  Instead of allowing members make their own decisions, the church has to make it for them.  Rod and HWA were able to make the decisions they have made, unmake them and then make them again, over the decades because they alone know the mind of God.  Really?

Sometimes things aren’t clear. Eating in restaurants on the Sabbath – that’s been discussed for decades, no doubt. Goes back to the time when Mr. Armstrong was alive, and it’s been discussed in the Council on numerous occasions and we’ve come up with answers on that. Of course, we-we look at all these things, whether it be makeup, or eating out on(sic) restaurants and such – either [it’s] okay or it’s not okay – we never hear the qualifying statements about those things like makeup in moderation, and without going overboard. Or eating out at restaurants – it’s okay on certain occasions, but not all occasions – we just think it’s okay or it’s not okay, as human beings. Now, of these four – circumcision, smoking, makeup and eating in restaurants on the Sabbath – of these four examples, only one judgment is directly mentioned in the scriptures, and of course that’s the one about circumcision. But in every case the church has sought the mind of God. A-and Mr. Meredith has pointed that out – that the Bible IS the mind of God. This is the book that we need to search to try to figure out what is God’s attitude toward the subject. And we try to discern that. And sometimes even for us it’s not always clear, but judgments have to be made for peace within the church. And there are a few times, like in makeup, where we have changed on more than one occasion, and we’ve-we’ve looked at all the circumstances; why the change was made and why maybe it shouldn’t have been made, but nevertheless a-a judgment was made. Because it was dividing the church, and we had to have unity within the church.

Apparently many in the LCG are not heeding the admonitions of the ministry.  According to Weston, God is going to heap judgment upon these rebellious members.  Is Weston trying to scare members into being submissive to the ministry?

In his sermon it is also interesting to note how he talks about what a tragedy it is for people to die when God chooses not heal them, yet when  church members fail to heed the judgments of the ministry then Weston is glad his god wants to kill them.

00:39:01

“The Bible has much to say about judgments and how we are to accept them. Notice back in Deuteronomy the 17th chapter, and I’ll just mention while we’re turning over there that in selecting judges, they were to be, um fair-minded, they were to be honest, but nowhere in the Old Testament say that they were filled with the Holy Spirit. They did not have the Holy Spirit of God in the way that we understand it today, but they were to make JUDGMENTS. And Deuteronomy 17 and verse 8, it says, ‘If a matter arises which is too hard for you to judge, between degrees of guilt for bloodshed, between one judgment or another, or between one punishment or another,’ notice ‘matters of CONTROVERSY within your gates, then you shall arise and go up to the place which the Eternal your God chooses.’ Verse 9, Deuteronomy 17 verse 9, ‘And you shall come to the priests, the Levites, and to the judge there in those days, and inquire of them,’ so sometimes they would go to the priests or the Levites, other times to judges that were in the local vicinity there, and says, ‘they shall pronounce upon you the sentence of judgment.’ They would look at the facts, they would base it on the law of God as they understood it at the time. ‘And you shall DO,’ notice, the person after they make that judgment, ‘You shall do according to the sentence which they pronounce upon you,’ so this was a very PERSONAL matter, not just a general thing that affects a lot of people, but it was a very personal matter. ‘…you shall be careful to do according to all that they order you. According to the sentence of the law in which they instruct you, according to the judgment which they tell you, you shall do; you shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left from the sentence which they pronounce upon you.’ Notice verse 12, ‘Now the man who acts presumptuously and will not heed the priest who stands to minister there before the LORD your God, or the judge, that man shall die. So you shall put away the evil from Israel. And all the people shall hear and fear, and no longer act presumptuously.’ This is very interesting because when a judgment was laid down in ancient Israel, to go against that judgment would bring the death penalty upon that person. It tells us that God is very serious about accepting the judgments that come down from his constituted authorities.

The COG has always had  a large number of people in it that did not concern themselves with all the bullshit coming down from on high concerning topics that really were none of the ministry's business.  Most ignored these pronouncements and went on with their lives.  Apparently many in LCG are still doing this and the hierarchy doesn't like it!

When the church makes a judgment WE – all of us – need to get behind that judgment. We’re not talkin’ about the LAW of God, we’re talkin’ about things that are controversial that are not clearly stated or-stated in the scripture, and somebody has to make a judgment on a controversial issue. ‘…you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.’ You see, these scriptures are very clear that I’m going to give your hear; the-there’s no ambiguity about these scriptures. Whether, uh, you should smoke or whether you should not smoke may not be clear to everybody – I think it’s clear to most of us – but that might not be clear to every individual. But these scriptures are very clear, that we’re all to have the same mind and the same judgment. 1 Timothy 1 verses 3 and 4 – you may want to look these up later – 1 Timothy 1, 3 and 4, it says, ‘As I urged you when I went into Macedonia-- remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine.’ We had an individual we had to put out of the church recently because he had written – he’s still writing I guess – a book about the two witnesses. Now that might seem innocuous enough, but his theory is that Enoch and Elijah are the two witnesses. He’s up to about page 180 in his book, trying to prove it. And Enoch and Elijah are in one of these clouds up here someplace – I don’t know which one, we don’t have too many clouds here, so Enoch and Elijah aren’t anywhere near us today. But they’ve been in the clouds in the earth’s atmosphere for the last several hundred – not several hundred – several thousand years. That’s bad enough, but where’d he get his information? In part from the Book of Jasher – because the Bible mentions the Book of Jasher on a couple occasions. So he puts that on par with scripture – he thinks that’s part of the scriptures. Now there are three different Books of Jasher – at least three – that are out there, so you don’t know which one, and I think he’s got a fourth one that came out of Egypt – a good place to come from – that he’s going to put his-his, uh, stock in. But then there are other issues – when there’s one, it usually goes on to the other. The simplest thing for him to do would be to follow the traditions of the church: the two witnesses are people who are physical human beings at the end of the age; they are NOT Enoch and Elijah. And when you read Hebrews the 11th chapter it speaks of Enoch, it says, ‘These all died not having received the promises.’ These all died. But he’d rather believe the Book of Jasher than to believe the Book of Hebrews. You see, ther’re individuals with their private interpretations of the scripture and they’ll get them into trouble, and one wrong doctrine usually leads to another.

Did you know that unity in the church is absolutely impossible without the ministry and the presiding evangelist?  Members can never be unified on their own, it takes authority from on high to unify them.  COG of God history seems to have the standard that members are too stupid to do anything on their own without the ministry being involved.

And I hope we’re thankful for that, getting back to our sermonette; it’s something that we should be very thankful for. And the booklets and everything else that have been written that help us to stay on track. You see, we may not have an apostle today – well we have some self-proclaimed ones out there, which is kind of laughable – but we do have a Presiding Evangelist. We have evangelists, we have pastors, we have teachers, we have individuals that God has placed in local congregations that guide the local congregation, as well as the church as a whole. But we have others that is says, ‘for the equipping of the saints… for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.’ And notice verse 14, ‘that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting.’ Yes, there are people out there that are plotting their own ideas; they’re self-willed individuals. ‘but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head – Christ.’ We may grow up to the-the head, which is Christ. ‘From whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effectual working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.’ You read this passage and you realize that the Church of God – the true church, wherever it is, and I think we believe it’s hear, that’s why we’re here – but the true Church of God is going to be a unified church. When we read Corinthians we recognize that it’s not always perfectly unified, but this is what we strive for. And the reason that we can be unified is because we have government from the top down. The problem is that, when it speaks here of, ‘no longer children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine,’ when WE are carried about a wind of doctrine we don’t realize it – we think we’re right. I don’t know about you, but if I get in an argument with my wife, I know I’m right. The problem is, she knows she’s right. Now, we can both be wrong, but we can’t both be right. We-we don’t want to admit it, partly because of pride. The other aspect here is faith. Do we really truly believe that Jesus Christ is the head of his church? If this is his church will he, will he guide it? Will we accept the judgments that come down from time to time? I’m not talking about when somebody says it’s okay to play golf on the Sabbath and you don’t have to keep the Sabbath, or you have to work to s-, you know take care of your family. I’m not talking about THAT sort of thing. And then the casting aside of every doctrine, and going back and believing the Trinity and, and Heaven and Hell and all – I’m not talking about that sort of thing. I-I think that the ministry of the Living Church of God has proven itself. Mr. Millich is on the Council, and he’s been around – a minister longer than I have; Mr. Wells, longer than I have. And the rest of us, I think we’ve proven ourselves where we want to go: we want to follow God. Mr. Meredith, Mr. Ames, Dr. Winnail, all the way down through the ministry. I think we’ve shown and proven that we’re not trying to go off into some sort of heresy. Do we make mistakes? I would think so. Have we ever made a wrong judgment? I would guess so. But even when Mr. Armstrong made a-an error about the Day of Pentecost, God still blessed the church, and then he showed him where he was wrong. And God continued to bless the church.