Allegory and the Prophetic Failure of Harold Camping and Rod Meredith

Prophet Thiel is picking apart Harold Camping today concerning his latest prophetic failure.  Jesus was supposed to be returning on Friday, October 21st. That is after Jesus failed to show up last year on May 21st.

Prophet Thiel is indignant that Camping fails to understand what allegory is.  Prophet Thiel is the LAST person on this earth that needs to be reminding Camping on what allegory is!

The Prophet writes the following as the reason Camping's predictions failed.  Camping did not understand allegory.

The short answer is that Harold Camping allegorized away too many key scriptures. In other words, he relied on his own private interpretations and imaginations more than looking at the prophetic sequence that Jesus Himself gave in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. It is that simple. He ignored the fact that required physical events in the Great Tribulation had not happened, nor did the signs in the heavens preceding Jesus’ return occur. Notice that Harold Camping and His followers ignored Jesus’ words which could not pass away:

Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  If that's not the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is! Living Church of God's entire existence is based upon a failure to understand what parables, allegory, myths and legends have to do in scripture.

LCG/COG has used the private interpretations and the imaginations of Herbert Armstrong and Rod Meredith as a basis of doctrinal "truth" for decades.  Neither man has any seminary training and is ignorant of biblical hermeneutics, exegesis and eschatology.  Neither man has any understanding how Christian thought developed over the centuries from Plato, Aristotle, and other great thinkers.

Many of the Bible stories were never meant to be taken literally.  Armstrongism has never understood that fact.  While parables, allegories and legends may have great truths in them - just as Greek mythology does - it does not make them "true" in the sense that the event actually happened.

Armstrongism also fails to recognize that Revelation was a hotly disputed book that only made it in the Canon  by the skin of it's teeth.  Yet, Armstrongism looks at it as one of the greatest books ever written.  Literalism literally destroys the mind!

Prophet Thiel follows with a quote from the International Business Times:

Doomsday prophet Harold Camping gives bad name to Christianity, denounced by …

International Business Times – ‎ Self-proclaimed Doomsday prophet Harold Camping is nothing more than a charlatan, a fraud who has given a bad name to Christianity, according to Christian leaders.

On that we all can agree!  Thiel however goes on to write:

The iniquity of false prophets such as Harold Camping, Ronald Weinland (who still claims that Jesus will come on May 27, 2012), and others will turn various people off about prophecy.

Prophet Thiel calls Wienland and Camping false prophets and  men who turn people off towards prophecy.  What the hell does he think Rod Meredith has done?  Rod has made hundreds of false prophecies over the decades.  Meredith follows directly in the footprints of Herbert Armstrong who has an even longer list of failures. What about the tens of thousands who have been turned off to the church and God over the decades because of the lies of Meredith and Armstrong?  Why do their failed prophecies continue to  get glossed over?

Thiel continues on:

Those who follow Ronald Weinland of CGPFK may wish to ask themselves how they will feel on May 28, 2012 when Jesus does not return the day before as well (Ronald Weinland, like Harold Camping, also seems to excessively allegorize away prophetic scriptures).

False prophets result in an increase in scoffers, yet despite them, Jesus will return, but not in 2011 or 2012. Please do not allow false prophets to turn you aside from the prophetic and other truths in the Bible.

I would say that those who continue to follow Rod Meredith after his promotion of January 1972 as the date we were supposed to flee to Petra and a few years later for the return of Jesus, may wish to ask themselves why they follow such a failure!  How many lives were destroyed over that one?  Meredith had his golden gloves right in the middle of the mix!  What about his continued "we only have 3-5 more years left" mantra that he has been spitting out for decades?  How can you believe a liar who has been saying the same thing for 50 some years?

Meredith's false prophecies have certainly brought out the scoffers (including this one). We see right through the blatant lies of the man and know him as just one more in a long line of religious despots that seek to control the lives of COG members. Meredith, Weinland, Pack, Flurry, Cox, Steven's, are sick little men who are in deep need of psychiatric help.  How many more men, women and children need to die because of these guys?

Coming Out of Hell: A Journey From Chaos to Redemption - Book By Former COG Cult Member

Another book to add to my collection by a former COG member.  Bonnet left a comment under the blog entry on Greg Sargent

I continue to be fascinated by the many different routes people have taken when they escape from Armstrongism.  I am particularly fascinated by people who's faith was not destroyed by the lies and filth that masqueraded as Christan.

So goes the never ending collapse of the Pope Herbert empire. As to Mr Sargent, I consider him to be a sincere man with integrity, but he must have blinders on to fail to understand the ramifications of Herbert's massive indiscretions. If you read this Greg, I got out in 1995 and got born again. You can read my expose of WCG and its offshoots in my book "Coming out of Hell - A Journey from Chaos to redemption

Coming Out of Hell A Journey from Chaos to Redemption

Can we be saved and broken at the same time? Can a Christian still need inner healing?

Every person on Earth experiences sin and brokenness. But even embracing a new life in Christ does not automatically resolve the pain and bitterness of past struggles and abuse. In this remarkably candid and uplifting book, psychologist David Bonnet bares his soul, using his long battle with depression and even longer involvement with a powerful cult to show how victory in Christ can transform a shattered life. 

Coming Out of Hell is a gripping story of deliverance from the deception, manipulation, and shame of cultic involvement. It takes an inside look at how individuals and families in the grips of spiritual, emotional, and financial chaos can find healing by submitting these wounds to Jesus Christ and finding peace by living in His presence.

Join David and discover that no life is too broken for Christ to heal---not even yours.

Milestone Books 
Amazon Books

Apostle Wants You To Know How Perfect He Is

Apostle Malm has laid down the law on what you should do about food on Saturdays.  This is how he does it and expects you to do it likewise, because only grievous sinners would DARE to eat out or fix food now that they know the truth!

I have not cooked on Sabbath or Holy Days since the early 80s and with a little thought and adjustment of habits, it works out very well. There is simply no need to cook etc on any High Day if one is properly prepared. We need to break free of our addiction to big food and a party style good time; and make God our passion. Just relaxing and discussing scripture with a loaf of bread, cheese, a salad, piece of fruit etc and something to drink would make for an excellent High day repast. We usually have a grand dinner before Sabbath or High Day making sure of some good leftovers for the next day. Often I enjoy a tea and ban muffin with marmalade for breakfast, a salad, pear and cheese, with bread and even sometimes warmed soup for lunch; and for late afternoon some of those leftovers. Its just that easy.

LCG: God Will Not Allow Our Rotten Practices to Continue...

Documented false prophet Roderick C Meredith has laid out the path that will happen to the United States of America before the Germans arrive and throw us all in concentration camps.  At least those of us who have survived the famines.  then your sorry asses will be hauled off to Europe to be slaves for the powerful Europeans.  So in true Church of God style he has to come up with a large list of "points."  Some things never change!

First, America’s downward spiral will continue until the nation is destroyed. Of course, there will be minor ups and downs along the way. But, unless Americans repent, the God of heaven will “break” their nation’s pride and power—certainly including the financial power that has made possible the “American dream,” which so many around the world have admired.

Second,the military power of the English-speaking nations will increasingly be weakened and will finally be destroyed.
Unless we repent, we will never again win a significant war. Before you start smirking, just “watch” for a few more years and see it happen.

Third,a combination of powerful “natural” disasters will continue, with increasing ferocity, to weaken and destroy the power of the Anglo-Saxon-Celtic-descended nations. For Almighty God does “control the weather.”

Fourth, because of the above crises, the American and British-descended nations will soon face increasing famine and drought. With more and more people out of work, unable to afford the rising price of scarce food and water, there will be a shocking rise in the number of families going hungry. Expect not just “job riots” ahead, but also “food riots” and massive civil unrest as a result!

Fifth, disease epidemics will increasingly occur! Sexually trans-mitted diseases such as AIDS, syphilis, gonorrhea and herpes will lead the way because of our nations’ vile lifestyles and godless ways. The Eternal God will not allow our rotten practices to continue without the penalties of such debauchery becoming more and more prevalent. God is not mocked!

Sixth, the sovereignty of the English-speaking nations will be terribly weakened and even overcome by immigrants whose values are opposed to the heritage of their host countries. Even now, we see the stirrings of the “Reconquista” movement in the American Southwest, through which certain Hispanic advocacy groups are pushing to see major parts of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas “reconquered” by Mexico. Because of this political pressure, and also the social pressure caused by drug running and other crimes in northern Mexico, the U.S. can expect that the terrible violence along its southern border will continue and intensify—with increasing thousands of people beaten, mutilated, raped and murdered!

Seventh, in a phenomenon previously confined mostly to Europe, Islamic radicals will begin to assert themselves in the U.S. as never before, demanding that their Muslim laws be allowed to govern American citizens.

Eighth, China will not be the great power of the 21st century. Beset by increasing financial and social problems, Chinese influence will wane and a German-led “European Empire” will surge to the fore in world affairs.

Ninth, today, most observers see a modernized and confused Roman Catholic Church, wounded by scandals of pedophilia and other immoral practices. Contrary to many expectations, prophecy reveals that a re-energized, unified and powerful Roman Church will emerge as a world-leading influence over the next several years.

Tenth, fearful of the power of this religio-political revival of the old Roman Empire, a group of Arab states in the Middle East and North Africa will form an alliance, led by a ruler described in Scripture as the “king of the South” (Daniel 11:40–45). This king and his forces will provoke or attack the coming European Beast Power. Their action will precipitate a dangerous Middle East war that will eventually crush the spreading threat of Islam.

Eleventh, God will, more than ever before, literally “shake” the American and British-descended peoples with earthquakes. 

Top 10 Bizarre Biblical Tales

Top 10 Bizarre Biblical Tales

The Bible is full of many fascinating tales – many good, and some bizarre – here are the top 10 bizarre tales from the Bible.

10. A lesson for those who dare mock male pattern baldness

Found in: 4 Kings 2:23-24
One of the more inspirational passages in the Bible tells the story of Elijah, a wise man, yet one cursed with male pattern baldness. One day he was minding his own business, making the long walk to Bethel, when he is attacked by a roving band of children who tease him with names like “bald head.” But Elijah was having none of this, he turns round and curses them in the name of the Lord, and instantly two female bears emerge from a nearby wood and maul all 42 children to death.
The moral of this story? Don’t make fun of bald people. Frankly, why this story isn’t included along with the Ten Commandments is anybody’s guess, but I think it would serve as an excellent lesson for children who think baldness is something to be made fun of.


9. Eglon’s ignoble death

Found in: Judges 3:21-25
Ehud is the Bible’s sneakiest assassin (and also the only left-handed person mentioned in the Holy Book). He is on a mission to deliver a “message from God” to smarmy King Eglon. Ehud waltzes in to meet the gluttonous king, pulls out a sword and stabs Eglon in the stomach. At first he can’t get it in, but he pushes harder and eventually reaches his intestine. Eglon is so overweight, we learn, that his fat actually covers the hilt of the sword, pushing it further into his stomach until it’s not even visible. It’s at this point that Eglon loses control of his bowels and begins to defecate mercilessly all over his chamber. The King’s attendants eventually come back, but do not enter Eglon’s bed chamber, assuming he is relieving himself. After waiting “to the point of embarrassment”, his attendants burst in to find their king dead on the floor, covered in his own faecal matter. Meanwhile, Ehud had escaped to the town of Seriah.
The moral of this story? Who cares, but it’s damn cool.


8. Onan – cautious, yet foolish

Found in: Genesis 38:8-10
A story so eponymous, it gave way to its own neologism – onanism, an archaic term for masturbation. Basically, God kills Er. Why? We don’t really find out. However, in a stroke of good luck, Er’s father, Judah, has given you the right, nay the duty, to have sex with your dead brother’s wife. Onan is a bit apprehensive at first, but agrees to go through with this bizarre scheme to create a ‘true heir’ to Er. He begins to have sex with the girl, but at the last minute decides to pull out and spill “his seed upon the ground.” God is so irked he decides to kill Onan too, and thus nobody gets an heir. This story is the basis for the Christian condemnation of masturbation and birth control.
The moral of this story? In the words of Monty Python, “Every sperm is sacred…”

7. A very disturbing tale

Found in: Judges 19:22-30
Within the Bible, one occasionally finds stories so horrible, one can wonder what their purpose is. Not only is this story utterly bizarre, but it is also absolutely disgusting. A man and his concubine are wandering the streets when they decide to seek shelter for the night, and find a man kind enough to let them stay. That night however, a group of men turn up at the door and demand to see the guest so that they may have sex with him. The owner is unwilling to let his male lodger be raped and so offers up his virgin daughter instead. However, this is still not good enough for the men, so the owner offers them his guest’s concubine and the men accept. The men brutally rape the woman and leave her on the doorstep where she bleeds to death. If that is not enough, when she is found by her husband, he chops her up into twelve pieces which he sends to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.
The moral of this story? I would hope none.

6. A novel way to show your love

Found in: 1 Kings 18:25-27
Before Byron, before Casanova, there was David. Young and in love, David desperately wants to marry Saul’s daughter Michal and offers Saul anything he wants to let him marry her. What could Saul possibly want? Money? A vow of love? No. Saul wants foreskins. 100 to be exact. Why? Who cares. If you want my daughter, you’re going to have to find 100 foreskins by tomorrow. David finds this odd, but then again this girl is hot, so he goes out and kills 200 men, and collects their foreskins. It’s only then he remembers that he only needs 100 foreskins. Oops. Oh well, maybe if he hands over twice as many foreskins, Saul will be doubly as impressed. Indeed he is and duly hands over his daughter to David.
The moral of this story? Never be ashamed to do crazy things for love.

5. Like slicing salami

Found in: Exodus 4:24-26
Continuing the Bible’s fascination with all things foreskin, we get the bizarre story of God trying to kill Moses because his son isn’t circumcised. God is about to obliterate Moses when his wife Zipporah takes out a flint and quickly cuts the foreskin of his son (ouch), throwing the bloody skin fragment at Moses’ feet. “You are a bloody husband to me!” squeals Zipporah, flint in one hand, child in other. God, clearly freaked out by this woman, backs off and Moses is saved.
The moral of this story? Never turn down a woman for being a psycho. Someday she may save your life.

4. Jesus and the fig tree

Found in: Matthew 21:19; Mark 11:13-14
So, Jesus is walking from Bethany and he’s feeling a bit peckish. He encounters a fig tree, but unfortunately it is barren as it’s the off season for figs. Annoyed, Jesus demands the fig tree bear him fruit, however the fig tree doesn’t respond (it’s a tree), so Jesus, in an act of uncharacteristic rashness, curses the fig tree to death. This story is bizarre for many reasons, but mainly for how little it means to the Jesus story and how Jesus seems to react so harshly. OK, so he’s hungry, and we all get a little cranky when hungry, but come on, the fig tree had done nothing wrong. This just seems like abuse of powers to me.
The moral of this story? I honestly can’t think of one. This story seems so unimportant and purposeless yet both Mark and Matthew mention it so it must have some importance. The best I can think of is: don’t disobey Jesus, even if you’re an inanimate tree.

3. Even God is proud of his backside

Found in: Exodus 33:23
It’s a big day for Moses. He’s finally going to meet God face to face and is giddy with anticipation. Soon the time comes and Moses positions himself on a rock ready to see the divine creator himself. But God backs out at the last minute claiming that no man can see his face and live. However, he has a solution. He will let Moses have a peek at his backside, “And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.” Moses must be heartbroken. He was hoping to see God’s face not his bottom! Imagine explaining that to the wife: “Oh honey, did you see God’s face?” “Umm not quite…I got a great look at his ass though!” Moses most likely slept alone that night.
The moral of this story? God works in mysterious (and slightly gay) ways.

2. Balaam and his talking donkey

Found in: Numbers 22:28-30
Balaam is just minding his own business, spanking his ass (donkey) when suddenly he hears a voice. It’s his donkey who is asking him why he is spanking him. Balaam doesn’t seem the least bit miffed that his donkey has starting talking in the same language as him and says, “Because thou hast mocked me.” The donkey then gets philosophical and explains the nature of their relationship and how his feelings have been hurt. Eventually they make peace. Oh yeah did I mention it was TALKING DONKEY?
The moral of this story? Don’t beat animals. If they could talk then they would probably tell you how upset they were.

1. Jacob and the case of the magical genetics

Found in: Genesis 30:37-39
And the most bizarre tale in the Bible goes too…this head-scratcher from Genesis, with its utterly bemusing explanation of the genetic code. Basically, Laban is taking all of Jacob’s beloved striped and spotted cattle. Jacob is left with boring old, plain-coloured cattle, which he doesn’t seem to like at all. So Jacob concocts a cunning plan: he gets some sticks and begins painting stripes on them. He then plants them next to his cattle. What Jacob thinks is that if he gets his cattle to look at the striped sticks while copulating, then they will give birth to striped young. Now, we’d all expect this idiotic plan to fail and Jacob to learn a lesson about something or other, but no it actually works. The cattle give birth to striped young, and Jacob is happy. What on earth is going on here? Anyone with the most basic understanding of genetics knows that this is bunk. The odd thing is that this story seems to have no purpose and moral – it’s just there. And I can’t help wondering how many scientists with painted sticks had attempted to repeat this process before Mendel came along and said, “I’m pretty sure that’s not how it’s supposed to happen fellas, why don’t we try this instead?”
The moral of this story? Your guess is as good as mine.

Contributor: JT

Saul Persecuted Non-Halloween Observers

Did you know that Saul was on a holy terror and persecuted people who would not keep Christmas, Easter and Halloween? Halloween?????

This stupidity comes from Yisrayl Hawkins, the convicted felon who runs The House of Yahweh in Abilene Texas.  Hawkins mind was warped by Herbert Armstrong's teachings and then went off the deep end forming a cult in Texas.

Some of his recent stupidity includes:

The Apostle Shaul never taught Christianity any more after he repented of it and was converted to Yahweh's Laws. None of the Disciples taught Christianity. Christianity teaches the world to practice sin. Christianity teaches iniquity. They teach that the Laws of Yahweh are done away with, that Jesus Christ kept the Laws for them so they can continue to sin. If one does not know this, that person knows nothing about Christianity.
Jesus and Christ are pagan Gods that Constantine enforced the worship of.

Constantine changed the Feasts of Yahweh and instituted holidays, such as Christmas, Halloween and Easter, as official rest days to be celebrated, which also carried the death penalty for not observing them.

Those living in Galilee, where Yahshua and the twelve Disciples were born and raised, were persecuted the most because they were all taught by Yahshua, and then the twelve Disciples after Yahshua's death.
The Galileans fled to the land that later became known as America. They are now referred to as the American Indians.

"FOR SHAME: This is a DISGRACE and a blot on your garments."

The Apostle is ticked, and I mean REALLY ticked right now about the sinful nature of COG members around the world who start their travel home ON The Last Great Day. 

He is ticked that ministers have early services so people can get out and on the road that afternoon. 

He is ticked that people pay their hotel bills on that day.

He is ticked they cleaned their hotel room and packed their bags.

He is ticked they stop and buy food before sundown.

Oh, did I say he was ticked?

He is really, really, really ticked!

But I guess it is NOT a problem for him to post to his blog on the LCG or Friday nights or Saturdays?

To the Groups making up the Church of God

The Eighth Day of the Feast:  Is a High Holy Day,  Lev 23:36.   It is a Holy Convocation. You shall do no servile work (work of any kind)  therein.

For generations now, The Church of God has made it a practice to hold services early, on the Eighth Day;  to facilitate the travel plans of their members.  People claiming to be converted Godly people:  have paid bills, packed belongings, cleaned their temporary dwellings and traveled on this High Holy Day.  And their ministers have encouraged this in word and deed.

FOR SHAME:  This is a DISGRACE and a blot on your garments.  The Eternal will not hold you guiltless for defiling His Holy Time.  Repent quickly and turn from this wickedness;  lest ye be corrected.

Church people even purchase goods and services on Sabbath and Holy Days, especially in restaurants.  

I think someone got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning!

God's Wrath To Reign Down on Australian Prime Minister?

British Israelism propagandist Craig White is all indignant that the Australian Prime Minister did not curtsy to Queen Elizabeth.  She is going to drawn down the wrath of God for failing to bow to the Throne of David!

Julia Gillard Declines to Curtsy to the Queen

Aussie Prime Minister refuses to acknowledge the constitutional head of state. The problem for her is that she refuses to bend the knee to the Throne of David - it may be that a Higher Power may break her political knees as a result.

I never cease to be amazed at how Armstrongites continue to make fools of themselves for all the world to see!

Living Church of God: Members Forced To Watch Film About Life of Rod

Apostle Malm is reporting on happenings in Living Church of God at the Feast of Tabernacles.  There seems to be a power struggle going on as the top brass attempt to see who can kiss Rod's ass the best.  Also, the LCG membership was subjected to a film on the life of Meredith while at the Feast.  God forbid if you got up and walked out during that!

I wonder if it talked about how Meredith claims he has never committed a major sin since baptism. Or how he made the membership and ministers lives miserable when he was over the ministry.  Did they include Meredith standing up in Tuscon bad mouthing Leona McNair causing him and the WCG to get sued?  Did it include film of Rod screaming and throwing a fit in the Auditorium during the receivership?  Did it include film of HWA removing him from office and banishing him from Pasadena for a year?  Did they include film of him planning to form a splinter cult while the WCG was defending him in court for his loud mouth?  Did they include film when he refused to reimburse hundreds of thousands of dollars that  members loaned him to start Global Church of God after he jumped ship to form Living Church of God?  Did they include film of Raymond and Eve McNair on their knees in front of him asking for forgiveness "with trembling lips?"

This film has to be one of the biggest whitewashes ever produced about a COG minister! But then, most of the Feast films were always propaganda that painted a rosy picture over the face of a deceitful cult that was destroying lives.  LCG Film : The Whole World Will Be Following Us In World Tomorrow

LCG is now in a power struggle over the succession to Rod Meridith and the game of office politics is raging as contenders and hopefuls compete in a “loyalty to Rod” contest.  In the midst of the Feast a film on Rod’s career was aired. I hear that on the Day of Atonement one elder actually preached that the day was all about obeying those ministers above you.

I will give it a day or two before Prophet Thiel gushes about the important witness about the life of Rod that was put on film, that there is no power struggle, and "yes, members are supposed to obey ministers!"

False Prophets: Harold Camping and Rod Meredith

Prophet Thiel has a tirade today against Harold Camping who has once again predicted the end of the world this coming Friday, October 21st.  Thiel at least recognizes that Camping is incorrect and a liar.

According to Harold Camping and other supporters of his Family Radio, Jesus will return on and the world will end on October 21, 2011.  Here is what he wrote in his We are Almost There! book:

Significantly, the number 17 links perfectly to the fact of the rapture because spiritually, the number 17 signifies heaven. Moreover, the number 2 (second month) spiritually identifies with those who have been commissioned to bring the Gospel. Is it not amazing that they will be raptured on the 17th day of the second month? Is that coincidental? We also have learned that the last day of the earth’s existence, October 21, 2011, is the 23rd day of the seventh month of the Biblical calendar. The number 23 normally signifies God’s wrath being poured out. The number 7 (seventh month) signifies the perfect fulfillment of God’s purposes. Could this also be coincidental, that the final completion of God’s punishment on the unsaved occurs in the seventh month on a day that features the number 23, which is a number that completely identifies with God’s wrath, thus signifying God’s perfect wrath on the unsaved?  (p. 61-62).

So, based on his proclamations, the world has only a couple of days to exist. Of course, that is not possible, so in a couple of days, his remaining followers will again see that his prediction was wrong (like they did about his predictions for 1994, and the one for May, 21, 2011)

It is interesting that Thiel can see that Camping is a false prophet but cannot see that Meredith is also a false prophet.  Meredith has had just as many false prophecies over the years and MORE!

But Thiel dances by the false prophecies this way.  He claims Camping is making private interpretations of of prophecy, while LCG's and Meredith's version is "literal."  Camping takes his interpretations as literal also.  I do not understand why Meredith's private interpretation are any different than Camping's private interpretations.

We in the Living Church of God believe:

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (2 Peter 1:19-20, KJV)

Now, Peter is warning that unlike improper human reasoning, prophetic scriptures were not private interpretations. October, 21, 2011 and many of the numbers that have been associated with it are not biblical prophecies, but improper private interpretations of scripture.

While we in believe that we have “a more sure word of prophecy”, it is because we believe that many prophetic scriptures are literal and should often be understood that way. Sadly, those into their own private interpretations, and misunderstand the Bible and the Holy Days, have another view.

Thiel then goes on to say this:

Because he prefers his own imaginations to the truth of the Bible, Harold Camping seems to load one misleading calculation onto other misleading information to get to the wrong answer. He should not be listened to by those that actually believe the Bible. The heavenly signs in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 have not happened, and they must happen first according to Jesus before He can return.

If this is true then Thiel must stop listening and following Rod Meredith, because Meredith over the decades has used his own imagination to interpret scripture in accordance with his belief on the way things should be.  So far has has struck out every single time he opens his mouth.  Once a liar, always a liar.

Yet, Thiel can call Camping a false prophet and not Meredith:

It remains my view that when Jesus does not come on May 21, 2011, hopefully the warnings to his followers will finally sink in. And some may remember that Jesus said,

11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. (Matthew 24:11)

Meredith is a proven and documented false prophet, along with Herbert Armstrong, Gerald Waterhouse, Dean Blackwell and Herman Hoeh.  They have all lied through their teeth for decades.

But there is a grand scheme going on by Satan here.  With Camping and others continually being proven to be false prophets this will have an impact upon the Living Church of God whenever they decide to make an end time prophecy in the future.  Because of all the failed prophets in the past, when people hear LCG/Meredith utter prophecies the world will laugh at LCG and Meredith.  They will be mocked and scoffed at.

Despite false predictions, Jesus will return. And we are to look forward to His return as the Apostle Peter wrote. Jesus will return no earlier than 2018 (and likely later) as certain biblically-required steps have not yet happened (Daniel 9:27; cf. Matthew 24:15,21,29-30).

When God’s true servants proclaim the truth about prophetic events, people are likely to point to false predictions (supposedly, but not really, from the Bible) and scoff, though God still wants people to repent (2 Peter 3:3-9). This scoffing is one of the dangers of the October 21, 2011 date that will soon be proven false.

If Thiel and LCG don't want to be mocked and scoffed at then stop telling prophetic lies as if they were the truth!  Shut down your cult headquarters and stop lying!

Sexualizing War and Armstrongism's Fascination With The Subject

Two of the biggest topics in Armstrongism that continue to pop up are sex and war. The COG's find inspiration in Hebrew Scriptures more than with Jesus.  Of course that pay more attention to Revelation than Jesus. They claim Jesus is coming back as a god seeking revenge on all unrepentant sinners while totally ignore what he actually did and said.  Meredith has sexualized his church to the extreme while reveling in blood, guts and gore of coming conquering armies.

This may explain how the Hebrew Bible seems to sexualize all conquest and wars in the OT

 

The Israeli Woman, by Lesley Hazleton, the Hebrew language  sexualizes war: 

"Gever" is the Hebrew for man, pronounced with the main accent on the first syllable, giving it an aggressive swing. The word also means a cock, or rooster.

But if heroism is purely masculine in Hebrew, weapons and fighting are even more explicitly so. While the sexual connotations of "gever" derive from the cock of the roost, those of weaponry derive directly from the penis.

The Hebrew for penis is "zayin," which is also the word for a weapon. The phrase for Israel's armed forces can thus translate as "an army equipped with penises,'' and the verb meaning "to take up arms" also means "to have sexual intercourse. '

Hat tip to Dennis.

"The Religion Was Soaked With Fear..."

Here is an excerpt from an entry on a "conspiracy" site that is discussing the weirdness of Bobby Fisher.  Someone responds with the following:

American Protestants were fairly enlightened until the time Armstrong came on to the scene, its all gone down hill since. Billy Graham once referred to Herbert Armstrong as "a great man of prophecy". Herbert Armstrong predicted the end of the world would come in 1972 - doesn't pay a prophet to be too specific. We jokingly refer to Armstrong's church as a "non-prophet" organization. 

For me it wasn't a conversion by choice, my father joined the religion when I was very young and I was compelled to go. I did spend about 34 years in the religion, which is not unusual, most Catholics grew up in their religion too, they didn't convert to it. In 1993 I began to see the little man behind the curtain for what he was. Then me and few friends started an internet campaign to change the organization and reveal its corruption. About half the membership left it for more productive lives. Those that remained splintered into dozens of new organizations. The parent organization is now a Karl Barth Calvinist style church. 

I won't go into all the scandals of the religion, if you are interested in the sordid historical facts of its founders they are available at: http://hwarmstrong.com/ on a web site run by a friend of mine. I am not bitter towards the religion, the experience was a mixed bag. I still maintain friendships with those that don't mind having a heretic for a friend. Somethings taught were very good, but the image they presented of God, was frankly a monster. 

The religion was soaked with fear and because the end was always near members never put away money for their children or their retirements. Fear of God, fear of the end times, fear of even your own God given reasoning and common sense were hallmarks of the religion. Armstrong practiced a self-censoring form of mind control and had studied not only Hitler, Marx and Hegel...he says just to know how evil they were. In one letter to co-workers he admits to being an FBI informant during the McCarthy era.

------

One of the lawyers on that case told me the State of California went after the wrong things. They tried to find something wrong with the books. The Church had an air tight accounting system - in fact it was state of the art - it was a real time system that gave their current cash position at any given moment (that was in 1982). It was also pass phrase encrypting on the record level. What the State of California didn't ask was what Herbert W Armstrong did with that money, and all that required was a compliant Treasury who'd sign off on it. If the State came down, he could always have plausible deniability and fire the Treasurer. Those who didn't comply did get fired. I know of two such honest men.

The rest of the comments are here: Rumor Mill News: Bobby Fischer

You Are Now In Training To Be Priest Rulers --IF You Qualify!

So how does one justify all the whipping, stoning, lashing, killing that TRUE leaders of God will be doing in the millennium when ruling over planets, worlds and galaxies?

Below is what the Apostle uses to justify the actions he has been promoting.  You had better be keeping all the commandments, not eating pork, not eating in restaurants on Saturdays, making your wife wear hats in church, and observing new moons!  You are in final training to be Priests and Rulers and need to know how to administer JUSTICE swiftly and immediately!  No pussy footing around!  Be a MAN and assert your authority!

DEUTERONOMY 21

¹ If one be found slain in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee to possess it, lying in the field, and it be not known who hath slain him: ² Then thy elders and thy judges shall come forth, and they shall measure unto the cities which are round about him that is slain: ³ And it shall be, that the city which is next unto the slain man, even the elders of that city shall take an heifer, which hath not been wrought with, and which hath not drawn in the yoke; ⁴ And the elders of that city shall bring down the heifer unto a rough [uncultivated]  valley, which is neither eared nor sown, and shall strike off the heifer’s neck there in the valley:

This displays the Theocratic nature of the Mosaic Covenant and the priests as the law enforcement agents as well as the religious teachers.  Priest rulers, as we shall be in God’s kingdom IF we qualify.

⁵ And the priests the sons of Levi shall come near; for them the LORD thy God hath chosen to minister unto him, and to bless in the name of the LORD; and by their word shall every controversy and every stroke be tried: ⁶ And all the elders of that city, that are next unto the slain man, shall wash their hands over the heifer that is beheaded in the valley: ⁷ And they shall answer and say, Our hands have not shed this blood, neither have our eyes seen it. ⁸ Be merciful, O LORD, unto thy people Israel, whom thou hast redeemed, and lay not innocent blood unto thy people of Israel’s charge. And the blood shall be forgiven them. ⁹ So shalt thou put away the guilt of innocent blood from among you, when thou shalt do that which is right in the sight of the LORD.

40 Lashes Ok, 100 Are Not

The Apostle speaks on how and when to whip grievous sinners:

DEUTERONOMY 25
A maximum of forty lashes is proscribed for evil doing, and a fair and honest judgment must be rendered.  Consider the Saudi and Iranian and Pakistani courts which even today hand out lashes up to and more than 100.

¹ If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked. ² And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number. ³ Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.

Stone Your Rebellious, Gluttonous, Drunkard Sons!

And on it goes from Apostle Malm.  Apparently a multitude of opinions on stoning your child is required.  So when you are all in full agreement you are allowed to stone your children.  There are many in Armstrongism who think this will be a law in the millennium. Stupid, stupid people!

¹⁸ If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: ¹⁹ Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; ²⁰ And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. ²¹ And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Judgment is not to be made by any person alone but by duly constituted authorities. 

 The following is in main a reference to Christ and how he became a curse for us, bearing our sins and being taken down before the sun had set.  This also prevents the common abomination [if that time and the Middle Ages] of hanging people for days and weeks as an example to wrong doers.

²² And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: ²³ His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Malm pretends he is a Jew keeping the law as interpreted through the "new covenant."  On that he is a liar.

Even the Jews do not believe the above regulations to be valid or ever to have been enforced or carried out:

The rebellious son first appears in Shemot and then again in the last book of the torah, Deuteronomy.  In both texts he is stoned.

One who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death…One who curses his          father or his mother shall surely be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15-17).

“If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, that will not hearken to the voice of his      father  or the voice of his mother and though they chasten him, will not hearken unto         them, then shall his father and his mother lay hold of him and bring him out unto         the        elders of his city… They shall say unto the elders of his city: This son is stubborn and             rebellious, he doth not hearken to our voice, he is a glutton and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones that he die; so shalt thou put away the evil          from the midst of thee; and all Israel shall hear, and fear” (Deut. 21:18–21).

His stoning is remarkable because the crimes of which he is convicted are not otherwise capital offenses.  Assault and even manslaughter are punished with compensatory damages and exile to safe cities respectively.  Exodus 21: 12-19.  The general rule changes if the victim or the accuser are either the father in Shemot or both the mother and the father in Deuteronomy.

Long before modernity, Jewish tradition rejected this practice and even the spirit of this practice.  Over several pages, the Talmud severely limits the application of this law – it could only apply in the small window between Bar Mitvah (onset of legal liability) and physical maturation (growth of body hair), a window that is estimated in the Talmud to be about three month, and there are further limitations on top of that. For example, if the rebellious son flees from his trial and then becomes an “adult” he is no longer liable.   There are no records of this punishment actually occurring.  Parents are prohibited from hitting their adult children.

The offensive law and ethos that give rise to it is effectively erased.  Its presence in the torah exists as testimony to what is possible in the sands of time and the light of day.  In the Jewish future, I imagine men and women will sit down to write Dvar Torah’s on how our generation effectively erased the prohibition on same-sex relationships and overarching gender inequality from the text.  They will look at those prohibitions as we look upon the stoning of the rebellious son – as a testimony to Judaism’s capacity to remain, after thousands of years, a religion in the process of becoming. Gather the Jews

The Apostle on War Brides and Marrying Those You Rape

The stupidity continues.  The Apostle Malm's words are in black:

The following law of war is meant to mitigate the actions of the nations in their abuse of captives, especially female captives.  This is in reference to captives of nations “far off” and not to Canaanites.   The instruction here is to take in proper marriage and not simply use and abuse female prisoners in rapacious lust.  The putting away is consistent with Moses allowing a bill of divorce because of the stony hearts of those in a merely physical covenant and not by and large having God’s spirit.  Divorce of a couple married in the faith is absolutely forbidden and any remarriage after a divorce of a couple married in the faith has been declared to be “living in adultery”  by Jesus Christ.  many including some elders in the COG are today living openly in adultery; an action which should get them immediately disfellowshipped.  No person living in such adultery is worthy of any office in the faith or of fellowship with the brethren.

¹⁰ When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, ¹¹ And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; ¹² Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; ¹³ And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. ¹⁴ And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

Now comnes in the law concerning rape,  A virgin shall not be considered guilty if she has cried out and fought her attacker.

²⁵ But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die: ²⁶ But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: ²⁷ For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.

If a man rape a virgin not married or betrothed then he must marry her with her father’s consent, as well as pay a penalty which is the usual value of presents given at a betrothal.  Tghis is because she may be considered tainted in a society that values marriage to virgins and may be unable to find another husband.  More about this

²⁸ If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; ²⁹ Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Apostle Malm: Adulterers Should Be Killed

Here is another great reason for the demise of Armstrongism.  There are still idiots out that that take this as a command.  They will not tear their houses down with mold in them, but will gleefully kill anyone who commits adultery. It's ok not to wear tassels on your garments but is totally appropriate to kill another human being.

Thank God these idiots will NOT be ruling over some world or kingdom in the millennium as they think they will.  It would be better to be condemned to hell than to live in their sick worlds!

Apostle Malm writes:

Adultery is punishable by death: This leads into the punishment for spiritual adultery [loving and obeying first, anyone other than our espoused Husband], which is also death.  Those who exalt any man or organization above our espoused husband; who say that “we can do this because some church says its ok” and do not base their conduct on a passionate love for the scripture and the things of our Husband: Will not be  joined with Christ in marriage to him.  They are showing how little they love him by not diligently studying the scriptures and not passionately obeying him;. By obeying another and exalting that other above their Husband they are committing spiritual adultery and are worthy of death, if they do not repent.
²² If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
²³ If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; ²⁴ Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

Spiritually Unclean Asses

Apostle Malm has this to say about your ass:

God cares about his people far more then about asses.  This is a practical physical law since the two are of different strength and inclinations.  This is also a spiritual principle that we are not to yoke the spiritually clean with the spiritually unclean.  We are not to knowingly marry an unconverted person, nor are we to take part in unclean unconverted actions polluting ourselves with the evildoing of others by participating with them in their unclean activities such as christmas, birthdays etc..
¹⁰ Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an ass together.

Prophet Thiel: Occupy Wall Street A Sure Sign of Endtimes

The Prophet speaks!  Heed his words! 

Armstrongism still needs to find the bogeyman in all world events.  It's no wonder their little cults are not growing!

When I watched some o of the “Occupy Wall Street” protesters/leaders interviewed, the following sections of scripture came to mind:

1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. (2 Timothy 3:1-8) 8 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there will be famines and troubles. These are the beginnings of sorrows. (Mark 13:8)

We are living in the last days and at least some of the protesters seemed to be fulfilling much of the above. The London riots and the flash mobs in the USA this past summer also brought these verses to mind. The sorrows and troubles are just beginning (Matthew 24:5-8) and will get much worse (Matthew 24:21-22). I believe that class warfare and other protests will help weaken the USA and other Anglo-nations and may also be a factor in them being vulnerable to real warfare: invasion by the Beast. (I also suspect that protests and civil unrest in Europe will be factors in the actual rise the Beast, as he will be a militaristic leader cf. Revelation 13:4.) As Jesus said:

Dennis On: A Final Realization About Forgiveness

A Final Realization About Forgiveness

If it is one concept that religious people are familiar with, either by choice or by force,  it is FORGIVENESS.

Here is what I wrote about the topic the last time I faced this demon believing I had reached the final stage in dealing with my own perspectives, consequences and losses in pastoring in the World Wide Church of God.

"There is one solution that seems to be the last one we really want to employ. Somehow, we inherently know that if we apply it and mean it, it will free us from all the drama/trauma. Mostly we don't know how to do it and find that what we intend to be a permanent solution to the painful life experiences we have, is merely temporary. The ultimate solution to our perverse chemistry of reliving, over and over the negative emotions that hurt mainly ourselves is FORGIVENESS.

Forgiveness is either the easiest thing on earth to do and we just don't get it, or it is the most difficult. I sometimes feel that if I forgive whoever or whatever it is that still plagues my mind at times, they or it will be getting away with something. If I forgive them, they will for sure! 

If I FORGIVE, they will win. So not forgiving ensures they don't. My ego, my "little self" will want to get even, or be right, or get an apology or just keep on fighting on and on what is or was. On the other hand, allowing things to be as they are is really what we call GRACE. The rest is all just memories and chemistry in MY head. It is not real.

I remember when a past Pope forgave, very publically, the man who put a near fatal bullet in him. I remember thinking that since the Pope is a professional forgiver, or has to be, it was not the magnificient example it was meant to be. The Pope has to forgive you! Now if the father of Nick Berg, the first American beheaded in Iraq, forgives that evil act done by those evil men, that is real! I undestand that Mr. Berg is just such a remarkable person, or wants to be inspite of the pain of those events.

 If you offend your pastor , or friends in the church in some way, just tell them "well forgive me." They have to!  He's a minister and it's a Church!

I want to forgive for my sake. Of course, there are a few things in life I want to be forgiven for as well as there is a chemistry of guilt or shame set off when I think of those things and don't stop and accept myself as just human like everyone else. Many ministers feel they have to give the impression they are past all that and do no wrong, or admit to little wrongs to appear human, but everyone has "the other side." Every minister I know wears at least one mask...

Forgiving comes in stages. I suppose it can be instant and final but mostly it comes in increments in practical fact. We forgive so that what eats us doesn't destroy us. We forgive because somehow we know that we all can be just as foolish or hurtful as we feel others have been towards us. We forgive because what else is there is to do and have a real life. We forgive to see how life can bless us for doing so and that things do work out exactly as they should for us.

Forgiving has to be specific and not generic. You can't forgive an organization or an all encompassing Church denomination. Abused Catholics can't forgive the Catholic Church or even the Pope. They must forgive the specific abuse, priest or member. I can't forgive the Worldwide Church of God. I have to forgive the players who created it, took advantage of my good intentions and spiritual seeking and changed it from something I could relate to, when I took the Bible as literally true, and returned me to a theology I found wanting as I grew up with it. I have to forigve them for the idea that reinventing the wheel, for me, was new and exciting. It was not and I lost my heart for it all.

Our forgiving others cannot depend on whether others forgive us first. If that is true, then we are at the mercy of others and probably dead in the water on this topic until others give us permission to forgive and move ahead in life. We can only do our part and we can only do it when we are able and understand deeply the benefit of forgiving to all concerned. That can take time, or not, depending on how willing we are to let it go and get out of the past into a more real and loving present."

That's where I left this topic a few years back. I thought it was about the best answer I could come up to move on.

I think I left out the last stage or perhaps this is the only stage for an open and enlightened mind that really wants to move on and finally answer "how does forgiving or not forgiving serve me?"

Think very carefully on this next sentence...

"Forgiveness, in my experience, happens when the NEED to forgive or be forgiven IS LET GO OF. When we realize that everyone ..EVERYONE...does the best they possibly can under the circumstances of conditioning, there is  no need to forgive or be forgiven.  Forgiveness is THE LETTING GO OF THE NEED TO FORGIVE."  author unknown.

I can't improve on that. Forgiveness is the letting go of the NEED to forgive.  That's it.  If I no longer need to forgive and fighting all the "but they got away with it," or "somehow I don't feel good about forgiving," falls meaningless.  I have been told that forgiveness is not for "them" but for me.  I can go with that, but somehow it never feels like it's over.  Giving up the need to forgive is very liberating. Getting over the idea that someone has to say, "you're right, I was wrong" before I am satisfied, is as well.  Besides, we always suspect people say they are sorry only because they just want us off their backs and don't really mean it or care what you think ultimately.  It simply never seem finished.

I have never heard an Armstrong or a Tkach say, "I'm sorry" about anything.  I cannot live my life waiting for their lights to go on.  I made my choices as well and I have more of a time forgiving myself for being so gullible or stupid or naive than saying I forgive "them."  It is more peaceful to come to the conclusion that I don't even have to struggle with forgiving myself.  I have no need to forgive myself. I was doing the best I could at the time and wild horses could not have taken me out of the church at that time.  Today, that is all over with. 

So perhaps the final stage is losing the very need to forgive.  Stage one is "I'm mad as hell and I'm going to foam out my rage."  Stage Two is "I forgive."  (Most never get this far from what I can see).  and Stage Three may just be, "I don't have a need any longer to forgive."  It was what it was and is what it is and resisiting it all is insanity and hurting my body, mind and spirit. 

I will not give anyone the power run the contents of my mind or emotions again by their actions whether noble or profoundly stupid. I will no longer struggle over finding that forgiving feeling that seems to ellude.

I simple give up the need to forgive .

Forgiveness truly is the letting go of the need to forgive.

Dennis C. Diehl
DenniscDiehl@aol.com

Idiots in the Pulpit: Witches Switchboards Light Up Every Time A Harry Potter Book is Published

It is no wonder people look at Christians and make fun of them when morons like this are sitting there blatantly lying.

Getting Happy-Clappy At The Feast - Or Not?

It's Feast time again and tens of thousands of COG members are gathered together around the world to hear amazing sermons and exquisite music. 

Oh sorry, wrong decade.

Let's start over.

It's Feast time again and 10's of people are gathered at various Festival sites to hear recycled sermons and some half way well done music.

Imagine getting to listen to well trained choirs and voices of superb singers singing songs of praise to God. Well, we all know those days are over.  No mass choirs with orchestra like we had in the Pocono's one year.  No huge choir with a majestic organ like we had in Jekyll Island.

I am sure there are still good singers in the COG who honestly do try their best.  Plus, who cannot help but clap for the kids when they get up and sing!

The WCG and its various harlot daughters over the years have jumped from clapping to no clapping and then back again, over and over.

A report came in to me today that in one area where members were forbidden to to clap for music or sermons.  The reason was:

"There is no clapping at the Feast so no one has pre-eminence above another to lift them up to give them special attention".

That's pretty strange considering how HWA thrived on the clapping.  I remember while at the huge Feast sites in Jekyll Island, Lake of the Ozarks, Pocono's, St Petersburg, etc., clapping like lusty seals the minute HWA or GTA's name was announced.  Men and women wept at the sight of these men mounting the stage.  

 

Being a deacon in Pasadena I remember for years being told that we were to initiate clapping the minute HWA, GTA, or Tkach Sr. came out on stage.  We were to immediately jump to our feet and start clapping.  It was standard practice anywhere HWA went.  His handlers sometimes would prep the sites they were visiting with instructions to make sure people clapped.

Congregations and Feast sites even clapped for his sermons, besides his entrances and exits.

 

Here is a sermon in the 1980's HWA gave where the members sat there clapping when he made one of his bombastic comments:

  This subject is causing a lot of trouble.

 

“Today I would like to speak on what may be the very next attack” on the Church by Satan (ie. preventing interracial marriages from taking place in the Church).

 

‘Satan is going to use interracial marriage as the next attack upon God’s Church’.

 

“If we want to be with God, get on his side. Or get on Satan’s side and go into the lake of fire” with regard to this question.

 

I will not compromise one millionth of an inch on social trends of interracial marriage.

 

Some say we must have racial balance in this world – we will not go the way of Satan!

 

‘But I say that for me and my family, we shall serve the eternal God’ (in relation to interracial marriages). [audience claps loudly in support]The Sin of Interracial Marriage

      

But then as HWA started to age he sat at home more and more and watched services on his TV.  When he started seeing the sheep clapping after sermons by Meredith, Hoeh or Waterhouse, he started to get perturbed.  Clapping was soon banned because these men were starting to get big heads and expected it.  Meredith was could be one grumpy dude when no one clapped after his sermons.

You can go to each of the 600 some splinter groups sites and find 600 some different ways on dealing with clapping. Most do it.

Even the Seventh Day Adventists don't have that much of an issue with it.

    There is no clear evidence that this gesture was part of worship in the Old and New Testaments. In fact, I didn't find the phrase in the entire New Testament. Therefore, there does not seem to be any biblical parallel to what takes place in our churches today.
      You may ask, "Why do we do it?" I'm not sure. I suspect that we incorporated clapping into our services from our cultural environment. Clapping is usually associated with the entertainment industry, but has become very popular in televised evangelical religious services. Perhaps we copied it from them.
      Leaving aside the issue of cultural influence, I suppose that what really matters is that each person be fully aware of the reasons he or she claps in church. Motivation becomes extremely important in this context. Is it an expression of joy in the Lord and His saving power? Is it only a physical expression or a substitute for what used to be the audible amen? Or is it a recognition of the good performance of the singer or the preacher? Adventist Biblical Research

So why does your Feast site allow it and others don't?  Why does your minister tell you not to do it when HWA and others thrived on it and expected it?  

Is he really afraid that when you clap after his sermon that you are actually GLAD he is walking off the stage?