Leave it to our buddies at United Church of God to boast about how superfantabulous they are. There is no greater "work"on the face of the earth today. They are so magnificant that they have "the SURE word of prophecy!" James Malm and Bob Thiel will be suffering major butthurt after being humiliated like this by UCG'!
Don Ward writes:
In one sense you could say that we have a more complete testimony as to the plan and purpose of God than did many of the disciples. We have the sure word of prophecy and the history of the faithfulness of God and Christ through the ages.So what has God revealed to them that has any relevance for humankind? Their education comes from a man who spent 6 months in a public library instead of working to feed his family. The theological education of Church of God ministers has been stunted for decades due to that minuscule freshman one semester traipsing into theology. They have never graduated beyond anything Herbert Armstrong taught them nor from the abysmal list of failed prophecies that HWA and others uttered.
Apparently, many UCG members are not happy that UCG is still a tiny little sect doing a tiny little work, while all the time demanding more and more money from them. Never fear though, this tiny little band of good old boys is doing the most important work ever to touch the earth. The entire world trembles at thier feet (as does James Malm and Bob Thiel.)
We must not let the things that God has revealed to us slip. At times we tend to focus on how small and insignificant we are on the world scene. But we must not forget that God has committed to us the mission of the ages. We are involved in the most important work on the face of the earth. Remember the words of Malachi: “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse” (Malachi 4:5-6).So just WHO is the Elijah that came and turned the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers? There are at least 6 current Elijah's in the COG today.
Herbert Armstrong destroyed his own family relationships. Both of his daughters rejected the church. He blackballed GTA and never spoke to him again. His grandchidlren wanted nothing to do with him.
Every splinter cult leader of the COG out there today has wrecked families and marriages with their perverse teachings. The COG landscape is littered with the corpses of dead members due to suicide, deaths from lack of medical attention, and killings, all due to the perverted teachings of the church and the ministers. One almost gets the impression that God has smote the church with a curse!
We have been enlisted in the work of preparing a people for the return of Christ. Our calling at this particular juncture of history is so very important. There have been many faithful men and women called to serve in advancing the plan and purpose of God. We are a link in that chain of faithful men and women who have labored in fulfilling God’s great plan and purpose. So we must not be weary in well doing. We must not forget what we have been called to. We must not forget that God and Christ are counting on us. Who knows whether you have been called to the Kingdom for such a time as this.Just how can UCG be preparing a people for the return of Christ when they don't talk about anything he accomplished, but spend 98% of the time expounding on the law. Grace, justification, sanctification, and mercy are unheard of in UCG and COG sermons. The law trumps Jesus every single time.
God and Christ are going to have a long time to wait if they are waiting for UCG to ever accomplish anything. This is the church that has a blue sock puppet that's more popular than its current church leadership. Jesus must be really impressed!
33 comments:
They’re all failures. None of them has the sure word of prophecy. That is just the main fantasy upon which Armstrongism is built. Other churches fake the gift of healing, and some the gift of tongues. Armstrongism always faked the gift of prophecy. That, of course, also makes a damned effective boogeyman. All the better to extort you with, my dear.
BB
As I have mentioned before, HWA did not preach THE Gospel of the Kingdom of God.
"The throne of David will be set up in Jerusalem with Jesus Christ, the messiah of Israel, the Son of David, literally ruling upon it in His millennial kingdom (2 Sam 7:12-16; Luke 1:32-33)" (Ed Hindson & David Hocking, "Premillennialism," The Popular Encyclopedia of Bible Prophecy, p.280).
HWA taught a version of what is know in Christian circles as Premillennialism - an unfortunate designation. Millions of Sunday-keepers believe the tenth tenet of this doctrine quoted above.
In 2017 this site posted a letter from The Journal, which was a post of a letter written by HWA answering a Bible question. Here is part of his reply, which may help explain why the splinters do not understand the prophecy of the KOG.
“Ch. 43:2, a time when the earth will shine with Christ’s GLORY . V. 7, Christ’s throne, dwelling in the midst of Israel for ever, and the House of Israel (British and American people) will defile no more...
“Beginning chapter 40 Ezekiel looks over into the NEXT AGE— in the World Tomorrow — the millennium ruled by the Kingdom of God...
“Why all this about the priests, the Levites and bloody offerings—when all that ended at Christ’s First coming? We do almost no preaching on Ezekiel 40 on, for it refers to the next age. Apparently descendants of ancient Israel shall be required “to do their first works” over again. I know of NO ONE in any church or synagogue who completely understands Ezekiel from chapter 40 on—and it is not Gospel teaching for our time, now. Notice vs. 23-24. Beginning 45:21, mortal Israel shall be observing the annual festivals.”
Just a couple of comments:
In 43:7 the House of Israel refers to the Twelve Tribes not just Ephraim and Manasseh. (The term “house of Israel” is used so many times for the southern kingdom it is perplexing that BI misunderstand the use of this term). Also the throne of David will not be in the Most Holy Place of the Temple - only priests are allowed to enter the inner court.
As an aside in the Millennium, the tribes of Levi, Judah, Benjamin, Reuben and Simeon will have more social standing than Ephraim and Manasseh.
“bloody offerings” did not end at Christ’s First Coming. They were suspended with the destruction of the Second Temple, until circumstances allow them to be reinstated. Similar to the suspension at the destruction of the First Temple.
The letter notes: “We do almost no preaching on Ezekiel 40 on, for it refers to the next age.” How then can you preach the good news of the Wonderful World Tomorrow - “the next age” - with almost no preaching on Ezekiel 40-48 - nine chapters describing this wonderful world?
The letter continues: “I know of NO ONE in any church or synagogue who completely understands Ezekiel from chapter 40 on—and it is not Gospel teaching for our time”.
I love the use of “completely”. You don’t need to “completely” understand chapters 40 on to grasp the details and implications for the new age.
But if you are the apostle God is using to restore truths to the church it doesn’t really matter if NO One else completely understands it.
As I have quoted before, Andrew Fausset writing before HWA was born grasped how the two Kingdoms of God - Kingdom and Church, the latter which flesh and blood cannot enter - interact to make the New Age a success:
“If revelation is to recommence in the millennial kingdom, converted Israel must head humanity ... [as] God's instrumentalities for establishing His kingdom on earth... The Israelite priest-kings on earth are what the transfigured priest-kings are in heaven.... Earthly and heavenly glories shall be united in the twofold election. Elect Israel in the flesh shall stand at the head of the earthly; the elect spiritual church, the Bride, in the heavenly... The heavenly Church is elected, not merely to salvation, but to rule in love, and minister blessings over the earth, as king-priests" (Revelation, JFB, p.722).
Indeed they have the sure word of prophecy. Whatever the prophecy, you will know what will not happen 100%.
The article tells us:
God and Christ are going to have a long time to wait if they are waiting for UCG to ever accomplish anything.
Is Christ not God? Little details like the above sentence have a lot to do with why newcomers aren't coming to the ACOGs. In mainstream Christianity, God the Father and Jesus Christ (the Son) are recognized as co-equal aspects of one God. In Armstrongism, however, there is always that push to make Jesus a little bit lower than Christ, and Christ a bit lower than God the Father.
Thinking of another recent post, it all comes together. Armstrongists have this weird theology in which they can become God, but God somehow couldn't have replaced Jesus. Even in the bacterial world, cells can divide. But God the Father somehow can't divide himself into multiple personalities or simply create God-beings; he has to make meat puppets that qualify to become gods. Once you look at it closely, the Armstrong view of God is ridiculous.
As a member of the UCG I ask myself why the congregation I drive about 1 1/2 hours to attend is barely large enough to be a viable congregation. I am now seriously questioning weather to continue to be a member of the UCG or any COG. It seems to me that hope of 1995 of an explosion of growth of the new UCG has faded as well as the same kind of hope for many of the other groups that have split off of the old WCG. I do not see a strong presence of God in groups that continue to be fading away. I think maybe it is just hard to leave friends that I have known for decades, but then again there are not too many of them left that still attend.
Hasn't Ron Weinland declared that Jesus comes back tomorrow? I have had a nagging feeling that perhaps if Ron and Laura don't find Christ returning to them, they might wish to go to him "Hide me in the grave til thy wrath be past" has not been one of the Church of God options or desires for the most part. They might find themselves less dis-illusioned if they took in the whole picture, which of course they can't because they have never seen it.
They'd all be better off understanding that prophecy is not history prophecied but rather prophecy historized. Thus it looks so accurate in hindsight. It was used to write the story.
Dennis. This article is about how UCG is delusional about prophecy and their god given vision of the future. Why do you feel its useful to Banned readers to change the topic to anti-bible and aethesism?
Based on social security demographics and actuarial tables , the UCG will be about 1/2 its size or worse in less than 10 years just simply from deaths. At that future time, the congregations will be even OLDER than they are now, and with an even faster death rate, with it going in half again in just 5 years.
Currently there are about 7k UCG members attending each week in the USA UCG, so this plays out to be 3.5k in 10 years, and only around 2k in 15 years.
This is made with the assumption that the decline will be done in an orderly fashion, without ministers breaking off on their own as there will surely have to be layoffs and downsizings.
UCG is pushing towards 25 years old, and has failed in its marketing to attract new people. There is virtually nil results from all these years of marketing and promtoion to be found in any UCG congregation.
UCG had potential with some 20k members starting out, (again now about 7k in USA) but quickly devolved into a centralized , controlled and ministerial centric group, with a guaranteed pay check. Instead of staying with the original congregationalist agreement that was agreed to at Indianapolis, it went right back to the idea of a communist centralized politburo approach, and chased out any talent , or enlghtened progressives that could have helped it move into the 21st century.
Any organization where you don't see turnover, and people being laid off for poor performance is doomed. When was the last time that you have heard of any minister losing his job because of poor performance? Who is monitoring ministerial performance, and results? Answer--- no one. And thet is why UCG is mediocre, changeless, and stuck. When half of its revenue is used to support the ineffective ministry, and there is no change or cleansing mechanism, these are the results to be expected.
5:27 ~ I wonder if many of the other members of the various COG groups might be beginning to share your same feelings in this. From an outsider’s perception, it appears that these groups are what I call “Sardo-dicean”. They have been spewed from the mouth of God, and are dead in terms of growth and preaching a noticeable message. But, oddly enough, each splinter claims to be the Philadelphian remnant, and they don’t like their members associating with the members of their competitor ACOGs. This has been ongoing for so many years at this point, and the animosities run so deep that it appears that any sort of reunification is either highly unlikely or absolutely impossible.
Just out of personal interest, I have a question for you. Please don’t feel required to answer this if you feel uncomfortable doing so. If you do stop attending with UCG, will you be retaining and practicing the doctrines on your own as an independent, or would you be leaving those behind, starting from scratch, to begin a new phase of “proving all things”?
BB
When i consider the irrelevance to today's world that ACOG groups seem to have, I am reminded of the vigor they bring to their efforts to preserve themselves from heresy, claiming it leads to division, when it is their intolerance and short sightedness that has made the movement divisive almost beyond belief. "United Church of God" is an oxymoron. No wonder Ellen White, who also claimed to have the sure word of prophecy, is claimed to have said "You don't have to worry about the Church of God. They'll never amount to anything. They are all too busy converting each other."
I have to laugh when I read: "sure word of prophecy." Those words don't impress anyone who was around for the 1972/75 fiasco. Fanatics have a way of totally forgetting all the let downs and outright failures. I have to agree with Dennis: "They'd all be better off understanding that prophecy is not history prophecied but rather prophecy historized. Thus it looks so accurate in hindsight. It was used to write the story."
Anon 5:27 before I left my cog, considered going to another, and even visiting different groups. I decided against this because they are all variations of each other except for the ones that seem insane with their apostles and prophets.
They are not following the apostles ways of worship plus not fooling the explicit instructions in Matthew 28 v 19 to 20 to make disciples of all nations as their primary mission.
There are also scriptures that properly examined show the Bible is not 100% true.
The non fundamentalist groups are okay with this and accept the Bible for what it is - a document on the best way to live but with the biases of the original authors and translators.
Hope this helps.
Tonto said, "Any organization where you don't see turnover, and people being laid off for poor performance is doomed".
MY COMMENT - Over the long term, this is so true. I saw it happen in the 1990s Fortune 100 company which I worked for and once the darling of Wall Street that is now long gone with its assets sold in the United States Bankruptcy Court. Tonto describes a very realistic slow demise to this WCG splinter of a once worldwide movement that is now reduced to obscurity and insignificance.
Richard
Anonymous 6:48 said, "Dennis. This article is about how UCG is delusional about prophecy and their god given vision of the future".
MY COMMENT - Dennis' comment is very relevant to this discussion "about how UCG is delusional about prophecy and their god given vision of the future". After all, I thought Dennis was implicitly referring to the fact that Ron Weinland's Church of God - Preparing for the Kingdom is an offshoot splinter of the United Church of God. It is my understanding that Tax Cheat Ron Weinland was a UCG minister in Toledo, Ohio after the WCG meltdown. False prophet Ron Weinland took with him from UCG the prophecy fruit of the poisonous tree.
Richard
Anon 5:27, I am sure you know that many UCG ministers disagree with each other about doctrine, but they are still willing to put aside many of those differences to work together as a group. Maybe you should attempt something similar in your community?
Right now, there may be five or six tiny groups of believers who each travel 100+ miles to attend their group's Sabbath service. Why not put out feelers to members of those groups in your area, and see if you might all want to meet together within a 20-mile drive? This wouldn't work for true believers attending PCG or RCG, but even some of them might be tired of their leaders and willing to become "The Church of God in CItyname" and fellowship to uphold your core shared beliefs and learn from each other.
Anon 7:01 PM reveals the true dark secrets of UCG 2019.
1. Many ministers within United disagree with each other over doctrine. Yes that is true.
2. They are willing to put aside those differences and work together. Not true. They pretend to work together whilst plotting how to gain their own long term goal, inch by inch, millimetre by millimetre,thus turning UCG into a friendly fire war zone and much confusion about who really believes what abounds..
3. Maybe you should attempt something similar in your community. That means get out of United if you are not with the agenda.
4. Much subtle cruelty abounds in United, of such i have never witnessed before.
5. This situation will not end well for any side.
Anon 7:01 PM reveals the true dark secrets of UCG 2019.
1. Many ministers within United disagree with each other over doctrine. Yes that is true.
2. They are willing to put aside those differences and work together. Not true. They pretend to work together whilst plotting how to gain their own long term goal, inch by inch, millimetre by millimetre,thus turning UCG into a friendly fire war zone and much confusion about who really believes what abounds..
3. Maybe you should attempt something similar in your community. That means get out of United if you are not with the agenda.
4. Much subtle cruelty abounds in United, of such i have never witnessed before.
5. This situation will not end well for any side.
Richard said " Ron Weinland was a UCG minister in Toledo, Ohio after the WCG meltdown. False prophet Ron Weinland took with him from UCG the prophecy fruit of the poisonous tree."
Ron Weinland followed me when I left pastoring Findlay, Ohio and also spoke often in Toledo.
As is often the case, I heard all about Ron from my dear friends that got stuck with him after I was transferred to Kentucky. When I got to Kentucky I had the "pleasure" of getting stuck with Ron Reedy, another interesting character, north of me in Lexington. I often got the "Come help us Mr. Diehl" from congregants there. lol.
Regarding the 98% of the time expounding on the law comment. If there is one thing I've learned in my life it's that liberal progressives are lawless to a fault.
Proverbs 6:21-22
Don Ward wrote: "...We are involved in the most important work on the face of the earth..."
Where is the proof of that statement?
Once upon a time, I heard a minister say that HWA said (I'm paraphrasing here) something like: "If your church is run by a committee, then it isn't God's Church."
How many committees does United have? Too numerous to count, but they learned all about committees from Mr. Joseph W. Tkach, senior.
What means it? God did not establish United as God's Church. God never even provided United a servant to lead it. Proof? They found it necessary to vote in their own leader, b/c God didn't provide them with one.
And time will tell!
Also, Don Ward, wrote: "...We must not forget that God and Christ are counting on us..."
Where is Don't proof of that statement? God is not counting on anybody from United. Besides, God just does it...His will be done!
God sent His Son, not to condemn this world (John 3:17), but to save it.
What was the purpose of the Passover service, and the message about Christ our Passover sacrificed for us?
Again, God is not counting on United, but United (throw in cogwa, living, phile...etc. too) is counting on the people's $mammon$ so the leaders may maintain their paychecks especially for those hirelings who fled (those still alive, that is) with the scattering of the flock and left their ministerial credentials behind in Pasadena.
When will these hirelings believe the Apostle Paul's inspired words?
" To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them..." 2 Cor 5:19
How can a Donald Ward believe those words when he thinks God is "counting on" United, and Don Ward probably senses that as far as United is concerned: "something" is lacking in their association.
Time will tell...
And if that weren't enough, Dr. Ward, in his recent Passover message, dated 27 March 2019, stated the following: “…God and Christ had led them out of bondage in Egypt into the Promised Land…”
What did that mean? How did they both lead the Israelites out of Egypt? What happened to the Word that was created in a "beginning?" Jesus Christ had a "beginning" too, and even an end when He ceased existence for 3 days and 3 nights.
Oh, well, Don Ward is doing the best he can with what he has, and ...
Time will tell...
John
April 20, 2019 at 4:54 AM said:"Meat puppets"?!
LOL, meat puppets making meat sounds by flapping our meat back and forth at each other! And if you are not good at doing that you can always get your meat stamped, as in a tattoo, to get your message across.
DBP
I think "sock puppets" is the name 4:54 was looking for. The Meat Puppets are a band that began in the 1980s as punk rockers, but later, like other punk bands, learned how to actually play their instruments and became more mainstream, charting with some albums in the early 1990s.
BB
John, if anyone thinks that God needs any of us, I've got news for them..... Romans 11:34-36. We ARE replaceable!
Richard
The problem with your 'Dennis's comment is very relevant to this discussion' is the pattern in his comments. No matter the topic, he turns it into a occasion to disprove the bible and belief in God. He should stay on topic.
No one is going to join the UCG because they have a blue sock puppet or for any other reason. Most people are too internet literate to not checkout the background of any church they may want to attend or checkout. Also the UCG has the reputation of being too wishy-washy for many of the more hardline Armstrongites to consider attending at least on a regular basis. For these reasons and the fact that the average age of the membership continues to increase is a recipe for continued decline in income and numbers in the years ahead.
Also the UCG has the reputation of being too wishy-washy for many of the more hardline Armstrongites to consider attending at least on a regular basis.
Not at all. Many Armstrongites have come to the conclusion that the power of the holy people has been scattered, and that no corporate church is worthy of Christians' allegiance at this point. For those folks, however hardline they may be, UCG is as good or as bad as any other ACOG, so if there happens to be a UCG congregation more convenient than LCG or COGWA, they'll attend there, just with no sense of institutional loyalty. This is something that I know frustrates the top men in UCG, COGWA, LCG, and some other groups, as they want to have halls packed with loyal members, but most members are by now wise to the ways of their deceitful ministers and withhold loyalty to a degree that was practically unheard of during HWA's lifetime.
I think "sock puppets" is the name 4:54 was looking for.
For once, BB isn't as well-read as he seems. It was the philosopher Ouspensky who asked whether human beings were simply "meat in which habits have taken up residence." In at least some translations of his work, "meat puppets" is found.
Not to be confused, of course, with Peat Muppets -- biodegradable Jim Henson characters.
OMIGOSH! Just Googled Ouspensky. We have Banned participants who actually pay attention to early twentieth century Russian philosophers???
About as far as I go is Russian classic cars, like ZILs, Volgas, and Pobedas. ;-)
BB
Gordon Feil,April 21, 2019 at 11:58 AM, wrote...John, if anyone thinks that God needs any of us, I've got news for them..... Romans 11:34-36. We ARE replaceable!
Gordon Feil, excellent point. While reading those verses, verse 33 caught my eye:
"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!"
All the more reason God does not need us, but nevertheless He loves us as He patiently continues to work out His plan, His works, etc.
John
Ahh,...yes. We shouldn't forget the "meat containers" or meat cans.
DBP
I've started to make it a practice that whenever I read/hear a catch phrase such as "the sure word of prophecy" from anyone in the HWA camp to look it up in context. I find it fascinating that these phrases are typically used by their original authors differently (sometimes slightly) than the one sermonizing.
In reading the chapter from which this phrase comes it appears that the author is not using the phrase to speak of "God's plan" or "mission" but about developing righteous character, the reward of which is entrance to the kingdom. In addition to their own witness to Jesus as the Christ, the scriptures prophesy about Him.
I'm aware of the concept of retro-fitting the narrative about Jesus onto prophetic scripture. My point is that those who take the view of HWA as valid are like amateur archeologists who use a backhoe to dig into a site full of precious objects and then try to reassemble them without context.
From the PCG News -
At Sabbath services on May 4, it was announced that Evangelist Stephen Flurry will temporarily return to Edmond, exchanging responsibilities with Evangelist Wayne Turgeon, perhaps until the Feast of Tabernacles. Mr. Stephen Flurry will deliver personal appearance campaigns in the U.S. until the pastor general is able to resume.
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