When I started this blog it was to showcase the many books and booklets written in the 1960s-1980s about the Worldwide Church of God and Herbert Armstrong that detailed heretical teachings and or abuses in the church. It swiftly changed to highlighting actual occurrences in the present-day church. Since I started this blog I have always given it as an open forum for this who want to expose abuses in their groups. While I and others here can be snarky, as many of us are when it comes to abuse of members by corrupt church leaders, I have and will continue to freely give this as a forum for those people, without my snarky comments, to share their hurts and/or grievances.
Bob Thiel loves to claim we are an anti-God or anti-COG blog, but that is not the case. We tend to take our focus on the abusive and many times heretical things that church LEADERS say or do. Rarely do we go after regular members of the church who oftentimes are very since in their beliefs and try to do what they think God expects of them. While I may disagree doctrinally with them on certain points, I still let them share their stories and grievances. This is something that all the Churches of God currently disallow. This is also another reason I have continues to allow "anonymous" comments. The backlash that many commenters would receive from their minister or church group would be swift and painful.
With Bob Thiel, since day one, we knew something was not right. Rod Meredith knew this. Dibar Aprtian knew this. The ministry of the Living Church of God knew this and the ministry of the Worldwide Church of God knew this. This is why NO Church of God EVER ordained him into a leadership position that gave him a platform to preach.
While narcissism tends to be an element of most church leaders and ministers, which members tend to accept in small doses, members also understand that church leaders and ministers are SUPPOSED to be servant leaders. Very few are, sadly. With Bob Thiel, this is blatantly true.
From day one, Thiel's ministry has been about himself. He is the most significant person ever to lead a COG in these end times. No other COG is as great as his. No other COG is doing a "work" as great as his. No other COG has more booklets and articles "published" in other languages than his group. No other COG is the fastest-growing church than his. No other COG preaches a gospel better than he does. The constant backslapping is appalling and repulsive and he wonders why no one in the church wants to follow him.
The church has always warned about wolves creeping in and members being unaware; there are ample numbers of scriptures that they get this warning from. This blog, The Painful Truth, Rod Meredith, Dibar Apartian, and others saw through the subtle deceptions and lies of Bob from day one. We will continue to keep the heat on him.
All of the groups that split off from the mother church had an opportunity to start fresh and do things right. Only a handful of independent COG groups do this. Those that do this do not have the focus of their members on specific church leaders or church governance. These groups know what the abuse did to their people in the past and have made a concerted effort to not do it again.
Let me repeat again, if you are looking for a forum to share abuse going on in your particular group then I will post that information, without commentary. If you want things to be anonymous, we can do that too.
12 comments:
Unfortunately, I don't believe Bob is reachable. He has deluded himself into believing that he is the current successor of Peter:
Apostolic Succession from Pope Peter to Bwana Bob
Bob now teaches that Rod Meredith isn't in the line of succession, which he says went straight to Dibar Apartian after the death of HWA. Which just makes Bob's dealings with Rod Meredith in LCG look all the more deceitful, self-interested, and scummy.
How I wish someone had a secret tape recorder running on one of those occasions when Apartian shared with other brethren his frank critique of Thiel's obnoxiousness and inflated ego. Apartian was apparently too much of a gentleman to tell Bob off harshly, or was it that he knew Meredith preferred that Bob as a big tither be coddled as much as possible?
I have been a church member for several decades. When I started reading this blog I would get upset at how can you mock God and the church. I was slowly taking stock of my time in the church and I soon realized that the leadership is so corrupt it is unbelievable. The snarkiness was enough to wake me up to the uncomfortable truths I did not want to face. I left the corporate church of the COG but my faith is so much richer today outside of Armstorngism than it ever was while inside it.
May you continue to do your "work" here in opening people's eyes and waking up to the abuse that they do NOT need to suffer by remaining in the church.
Thanks for giving people a place to share.
I started out young in the church and unfortunately I had these two ministers conspire against me. It was awful. Although I was inspired by most of their literature I was shocked at the behavior of the leadership. See the attitude is a spirit and it’s no wonder why worldwide broke up. They had the wrong prideful attitude. Some still have it today.
I have been reading and contributing commentary to this blog for many years now. Personally, I have found it to be both cathartic and intellectually/spiritually stimulating. As someone who was a member of the old and now defunct Worldwide Church of God and was also formerly associated with one of the many prominent splinters to emerge from its disintegration, it is now clear to me that the theology of Armstrongism is inherently flawed and abusive. Moreover, just as the system has intrinsic weaknesses, many of the men who have been in leadership positions within that system have displayed an arrogance, obtuseness, and cruelty that is palpable.
I have also observed that many of the folks who are still steeped in Armstrong's theology are thin-skinned. In short, they can dish it out, but they can't take it. They have no problem pointing out the errors and hypocrisies of mainstream Christianity, but they howl like banshees when they themselves are critiqued or challenged! Thus, anyone who dares to criticize them, or their theology is snarky and cruel. To this, I would simply point out that Jesus of Nazareth was never timid in his criticisms of the prideful, abusive, and hypocritical religious leaders of his own day.
Hence, I would say that those who would characterize the content of this blog as anti-God or anti-God's Church are either very misguided or are consciously acting in the capacity of apologists for Armstrongism. For all of the folks who have emerged from the grip of this heretical and harmful theology, this blog has been a blessing and a resource for growth and understanding. I see what some few here have characterized as cruel and snarky as the rejuvenation/revitalization of the deceived and downtrodden. In short, this blog has helped countless people to recover from (and process) some very painful experiences. Indeed, for many of us, we find that our faith in God and our participation in His ekklesia has only deepened/been enhanced by our encounter with NO2HWA and Banned by HWA. Thank you and keep up the good work!
Since you brought it up: what are some examples of "independent COG groups" doing it right?
Feastgoer...
I wouldn't say they have it all right, but there are at least 2 groups that seem to certainly treat their members better than other groups and allow questions and doubt.
1. Wes White's Big Sandy church. His work with the youth there is exemplary. He also is not afraid to stir up controversy by asking hard questions.
2. Rock Valley Christian Church out here in Murrieta CA. Watching some of their videos and the way they treat members would certainly make me interested if I was still Sabbatarian. They show genuine excitement with their messages, not the podium pounding, or chair bouncing-beat the members over the head type of sermons.
That’s great that they work well with the youth, because it’s much harder for the youth in todays world. A challenge for most of the splinter groups is having middle age and elderly members who don’t understand how difficult the youth is having start their lives because of the economics being vastly different than they were back when they were younger. It can be a disconnect.
The criticism should be taken to improve a ministry. But they interpret it as going against the will of God. They fail to practice “ you can have the gift of prophecy, but if you don’t have love, you have nothing”
Having just finished reading Marion McNair's book "Armstrongism-Religion or Rip Off"? I was stunned to read in HWA's own words that God is a dictator!! He is a tyrannical dictator and rules his government with an iron fist.
I nearly threw up, but understood far better what was behind Herbie's vicious, cruel treatment of everyone under him. Today, we see nothing but imitators of that same satanic belief. Gerry, Dave and Bob are simply parroting what they learned from their "father in the gospel", HWA. It truly makes my blood boil and my heart break at the same time. Perfect justice is not far off for these men. They may get away with it in this lifetime, but not one of them will escape unscathed when they meet the God they have spent their lives misrepresenting and making a mockery of. That day cannot come soon enough.
Anonymous on Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 6:36:00 PM PDT said...“That’s great that they work well with the youth, because it’s much harder for the youth in todays world. A challenge for most of the splinter groups is having middle age and elderly members who don’t understand how difficult the youth is having start their lives because of the economics being vastly different than they were back when they were younger. It can be a disconnect.”
It can be a lot worse than that.
For example, singles in Gerald Flurry's satanic filth cult get lots of old male and female sex maniacs, sex perverts, and predators continually trying to use them and abuse them. If the singles simply try to shy away from all the old sex perverts, the singles get slandered all over the place and kicked out by the fake PCG ministers who become enraged at them for not going along with all the older sex perverts that are trying to prey on them and that the local busybody tyrants are trying to match them up with.
The PCG “ministry” never does any good at all and cannot even so much as leave people alone. They always have to be doing evil to other people. They act like they never heard about God's laws of sexual morality. They act more like they heard about Garner Ted Armstrong fucking around and want to get their share too now. In fact, one of the old sex maniacs in the PCG who called himself “single” because he had never married any of the women that he had sex with, including one that he had a kid by, had been a follower of GTA in the past.
If you think that the Worldwide Church of God under Herbert W. Armstrong was bad, check out the false prophets like Gerald Flurry that Satan sent against the WCG people. Then you will see bad.
This blog is NO place to share any legitimate stories of abuse or wrongs from within any Church of God past or present. NO PLACE AT ALL HERE.
Why? Because this blog is run by hypocrites who are abusers themselves who want to trip off others abuse and wallow in the gossip.
HYPOCRITES.
DW said...
"Having just finished reading Marion McNair's book "Armstrongism-Religion or Rip Off"? I was stunned to read in HWA's own words that God is a dictator!! He is a tyrannical dictator and rules his government with an iron fist."
I know. Crazy. And, of course, HWA considered the Church completely democratic back in his COG7 years in Oregon. And would constantly complain about Stansberry telling him what to do.
Hypocrite.
This blog, along with a couple of others, saved my life. I was in a depression so deep and I was so isolated there was only one way it was going to end. But finding others who had similar experiences, and at the same time using their stories and posts as an instruction in critical thinking, made a huge difference. My life isn't perfect today but there is no comparison to how it was under Armstrongism. The depression is long gone and I have accomplished so many wonderful things that I didn't believe were possible. Life is really amazing once it is embraced.
One of my greatest regrets in life is that I never got to meet and thank Gavin Rumney in person for the role he played in those years. Perhaps some day I will be able to do this with Gary and Dennis. But if not, I hope the two of you understand you saved somebody's life. And through that one life you saved, you made it possible for many others to experience joy, peace, safety, and happiness.
Your deeds and generosity will echo through eternity.
Post a Comment