Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Dennis Luker: Cancer Has Metastasized To Several Organs
The latest about Luker:
The doctors have run an extensive battery of tests to determine Denny’s
health situation and we are now able to let you know what we are facing.
Unfortunately, all indications are that he has a very aggressive form
of cancer. The exact location, type and origin are not yet fully
determined, but it has metastasized to several organs. Treatment options
are still being explored.
54 comments:
Denny...Perhaps some who have access to you in UCG will read this. I send you and family my kindest regards and hope for you comfort in difficult times. It's not how we thought our lives would go, but it is how it is. We had great talks when younger and I always apprecited you seeming to befriend me right from the start in college. I was always impressed that you gave up your previous career, areonautics I believe? to follow what seemed right.
Wish you were closer for a visit.
In don't know Mr. Luker, though when at AC in the early 70's he was probably someone I would pray for and probably saw his picture in the Envoy. I hope he will receive the appropriate care, even if it is only palliative. And when the end comes I hope he has good hospice care so that he and his loved ones do not suffer unnecessarily, unlike those members of the WCG who were misled into refusing medical treatment of any kind, including pain relief. Perhaps Meredith and others will think of those who suffered unnecessarily when they themselves receive the very best of end of life care.
Y'know what, I was going to post this as Anonymous, but I won't: Every time I turned on a sermon by Luker, without fail, he was whining about how he didn't have a retirement fund. I leave that fact to speak for itself.
My condolences to the family.
I remember a deacon from the Victoria congregation who took chemotherapy for leukemia in 1985. And there were several older members of the same congregation who ended their lives in hospice care in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
Which is not to say life in the Church wasn't the way Anonymous @ 5:41pm pictured it, twenty years prior; but as I've said before, when I was growing up in the Church, that kind of attitude had largely been dispensed with.
*5:41am I really can read honestly.
I'm sorry to read this. I knew both he and his wife when they were young and full of life and entusiasm for what we all were convinced was "the truth."
The whole world is deceived about a whole lot of things. I don't know his heart today, but I'd bet that at the basis is still a good, well-meaning guy. I feel for him and his wife.
Re-posted from earlier blog entry:
Denny and Lee Ann Lukers said, “While we desire to spend many more years together as husband and wife, ultimately our health and future is in God’s hands. If that includes healing, we would be grateful”.
MY COMMENT – This statement alludes that it may be a terminal condition and that TIME IS SHORT. I now understand that when Mr. Armstrong use to say, “TIME IS SHORT”, he was referring to “HIS TIME IS SHORT” which became intertwined with the return of Jesus Christ first in 1975 and at other times thereafter until his death in 1986.
Folks, I don’t wish any of these former WCG ministers from the 1960s/1970s any ill will. As someone who grew-up in the WCG, I found out the Church and Mr. Armstrong didn’t know everything and not everything preached from the pulpit was correct. After being rejected by Ambassador College (thank you Lord God), I left the Church at age 20 in 1976 and I never went back. I took with me the good things I learned and tried to apply them in my life. Things like don’t steal, don’t covet what’s not yours, don’t lie. There is a lot of truth and wisdom in Mr. Armstrong’s book, “The Seven Laws of Success”.
With respect to the WCG beliefs on healing and medicine, this is direct quote recorded in my Sabbath Services notebook of what was preached from the pulpit in my local Washington, D.C congregation in a January, 1969 sermon: “if you die in the hands of doctors, you will go to the lake of fire”. Through the internet, I contacted the minister who uttered these words 35 years later. This is what he wrote to me: “I would like to apologize for the comments that you mentioned. In 1969 I was just 29 years old, too young to be a pastor. Many of the things I said and did in the first years of my ministry are a great embarrassment to me. I was a young fool. I apologize to both you and God”.
We have ALL grown as a result of the WCG experience including many of the ministers such as the one I mentioned above. Like Anonymous poster March 1, 2013 at 10:23 AM, I wish Mr. Luker the best and I hope he recovers. I remember him from Feast of Tabernacles services.
Richard
I do remember that Dennis Luker anointed an Elder's Wife dying of cancer in United and she promptly died the next day.
Perhaps a miracle will occur (many do): We will have to wait and see.
Be it according to your faith.
Armstrongism is filled with clueless empty headed self-involved nim null twits unable to grasp the insignificance and dysfunction of the cult.
Dennis Luker has not been among them -- he knew a long time ago there was something very wrong with Herbert Armstrong, GTA, the WCG, but he chose to stay with it instead of leaving -- apparently with the idea that maybe some day he could help fix it.
If that is true, in the long run it has been a bad strategy and has left him with little more than mediocre compromise against forces that are completely unmanageable in a dysfunction environment where it is impossible to be competent.
Perhaps there is a lesson in all this from which we could all benefit.
yeah, that staying around too long to be a force for positive change was a bunch of BS...DD
Maybe an anointing is in order? Surely such a high and mighty man of god could be miraculously healed by the other chosen of god simply by laying hands on and praying that the god who gave him cancer would heal the cancer (yeah right). Bad luck, they say that bacon and ham can add years to your life and keep your bowls moving regularly; otherwise one becomes full of ...., but your supernatural pooh pooh cant do a thing for you now. Your gonna die "very soon" (now you will see what very soon really means) and soon even your memory will be gone. Did you enjoy your life?, one subsedized by those who you decieved. I have no sympathy for you at all, do everything possible to check out ASAP. I wish (heck, I'll even pray for that one) that all GOG ministers would get cancer and die too.
one does wonder if Mr.Luker put off medical treatment too long. With cancer if one waits too long it is usually too late for effective treatment. We have probably all read the story of Steve Jobs cancer journey.
Yeah, he's a millionaire taking SIX FIGURE SALARIES for over 40 yrs, getting RICH off of poor Saps.
I can't think of a single reason to respond to news of a person's cancer with vitriol and delight. It's one thing to chuckle at the absurdities going on in the COG world, and even Luker's participation in them; it's another altogether to wish someone harm because of it. When I was in the WCG, the high and mighty were one of the groups of people I avoided; you folks who resent others and delight when they encounter misfortune were the other. Get a life, for crying out loud.
Anonymous March 2, 10:04, what you have written is one of the foulest things I've ever read.
I never knew Dennis Luker. According to the testimonies on threads concerning him, he is a decent fellow. But even if he were one of the reprehensible con men, this is no way to address a fellow human being.
You demonstrate the attitude that caused human beings to invent the lake of fire in the first place and curse people to suffer in it. The only way you are better than the ministers who threatened listeners with damnation is that you are not expecting anyone to send you tithes to avoid your curses. That's something, I guess, but not nearly enough.
I hope Dennis Luker's last days are as comfortable and pain-free as possible. I offer my condolences to his wife and extended family.
Glenn Parker
I wasn't going to comment on anon's comment as being one of the ministurds only is asking for more of the same. However, the boy has a problem and the Karma Fairy loves folk like that
dd
There is life, and there is death. None of us gets out of this alive, at least in the physical sense. The saddest part to death is often the way in which one goes out. I hope they are able to make Mr. Luker comfortable in his last days. At least he's in one of the more moderate splinters in which painkillers or medical attention are permitted.
I never knew the man, other than to hear some of his sermons occasionally, back in the day. I can't say that I recall any specific points which he might have made during those sermons, but it seemed as if he was at that time one of the more moderate voices for sanity, as opposed to being malicious, authority heavy, or intrusive.
BB
I'm deeply torn. On one hand I don't like to experience other people's suffering, on the other hand....
Dennis Luker has done a lot of damage. He may be seen as a nice guy, but as Velvet pointed out his priority was salary (and, may we add, retirement). He had a penchant of speaking in public to disclose details of those who had confided in him in public. He had a great disdain for overweight people. He was behind the abuse suffered by a woman by stalking -- in fact, he was supportive of stalking in several areas and set women (and a few men) in serious jeopardy because of it.
We had a weekly deluge on his favorite topic: Homosexual support groups and acceptance of gay people in the congregation (likely because of a family member).
He used the congregation as a support and place to vent his own abuse by his own parents in his teens, publicly breaking the Fifth Commandment while gaining sympathy and making people think, "He's a nice guy, he understands abuse".
Appearances are deceiving and when it's a discussion of the cult of Herbert Armstrong, no one and nothing is exactly as they seem.
With his departure from United, there is a weak leadership and those of us who understand science knows that nature abhors a vacuum. It is likely that someone somewhere will gain ascendancy and the UCG will dramatically change. If the record stands, it will not be for better.
Truthfully though, none of the subcults should have existed at all and if that had been the case, none of this would have come to light -- and the world would be a better place for it not existing. There have been so many ruined lives while rabid supporters insist there hasn't been.
It is hoped that after all that is said and done, and in consideration of the believers, perhaps he can take refuge and hope of having Jesus as his personal savior.
Ironically, the CoG7 currently has as its current Adult Bible Study, written by Ken Lawson, is the study on Miracles -- which they claim have experienced over the years, within the CoG7.
Perhaps this drama will enlighten us all.
"anointed an Elder's Wife dying of cancer in United and she promptly died the next day."
I fully realize I am going to get flack for saying this, but maybe the anointing worked; the elder's wife might very well have been facing a protracted and painful death, otherwise.
I do think it was dependent on the area/minister, whether or not progressive understanding (and the general improvement of) medicine was accepted. I know that neither the Toronto nor the Victoria congregations ever saw medicine and anointing as exclusive to each other; in fact being anointed often speeded one's recovery WITH medicine, rather than without.
All that said, let me add this: The UK ministry seems to have no issues with doctors or medicine (that I can tell--maybe some of them still do but all the ones I know personally don't), but when anointing, they will still speak as though your physical ailment is a demon/demonic influence to be rebuked; I was a bit shocked the first time I heard that, let me tell you!
Now, I don't know if the iffy wording is a holdover from the pre-70s Church, or if it's something that's crept in with the Evangelicals; in Canada when I was growing up, the anointing was basically to petition God to speed the recovery of the person being anointed. Regardless, the UK ministry do still have the authority to anoint, I can verify this 100%.
They've also stopped using anointed cloths in the UK, which isn't the most hygienic of situations, but I guess it's better than having to burn the used cloths.....
"I can't think of a single reason to respond to news of a person's cancer with vitriol and delight."
I agree, but it's hardly surprising; I am willing to bet that Anonymous @10:04am is more than likely one of those bitter ex-members of the Church that has "found" professing Christianism. Of all the ex-members of the Church I have interacted with over the years since the changes, both on and off rthe Internet, consistently, the most arrogant, stiff-necked, hard-hearted, and generally just all around flat-out NASTY people, are the ones who have turned away to the god of this world, and who "profess Jesus with their lips but profane Him with their hearts."
Which, like I say is hardly surprising, but it is a bit hypocritical, to hear them spewing about "Jesus loves meeeeeee!" and then they can't even muster up the basic human decency to love their neighbours.....
Lake of fire, karma, jesus saves, etc. Face reality, it's all a myth. And Armstrong figured out how to manipulate it all, now the splinter phonies are simply copying. As long as you believe in lakes of fire, karma, and jesus saves, you continue to thwart progress of the human race.
And Velvet, I might agree with you accept my experience and that Scripture that says, "I will curse your blessings".
You might still be right and I certainly don't want to discourage you, since you come up with some perspectives which have merit (even if occasionally, I don't like them).
Anonymous said...
Lake of fire, karma, jesus saves, etc. Face reality, it's all a myth
Just kidding...we're all hairless apes with a better consciousness than the cousins.
I knew both he and his wife when they were students. Both were great people. We were all deceived and very sincere about what we were convinced was "the truth."
I don't know what has transpired since then, but I'd like to think that both of them are still basically good people. My heart goes out to them just as much as to anyone else in such a situation.
Not sure how old D.Luker is but it is probably close to 70 if not more. That is a reasonable life, not all of us get that long. Plus he is not dead yet. I don't know what is so bad about saying anything unpleasant about people with cancer. Probably 50% of us will get it, and of that number many will die of it, the rest might die of heart disease. We are mortal after all.
I was in WCG in the 1960's and early 70's. People were expected to let their children die of appendicitis back then. People did die before their time because of the beliefs about not using doctors or medicine. HWA's own wife and son died when perhaps both of them could have lived with appropriate medical help. Women had babies at home without pain relief. We were supposed to put wine on wounds rather than antibiotic cream. Of course antibiotics were not approved. I was a child and didn't have vaccinations during the polio epidemics. I was lucky, or blessed, or healthy to make it thru childhood. We were also constantly barraged with stories of medical error and incompetance, such as the wrong leg being cut off, and the profit motives behind drug companies. At least we were encouraged to eat a good diet.
Then some of these same people who preached this message to the sheep, complain about their lack of a pension. Why, we were not supposed to need a pension, remember? We were all going to Petra or some such place.
If we were talking about a "minister" of Scientology, there wouldn't be the same level of angst. After all, it would be some random guy who had some sort of power and prestige in a "religion" we know is bogus. There would be no hand wringing because the "Work" of Scientology would deeply miss the man.
The auditing machine, Lord Xenu and all the rest of it with the Thetans is just so much science fiction to us. No really. Scientology was created by the science fiction writer, L. Ron Hubbard who recycled his writings to create a religion.
Herbert Armstrong recycled the writings of... well... there are so many. Mostly he just upped and stole the teachings of the Church of God Seventh Day and transmogrified them to his own kind of "science fiction" without the science part. No matter how anyone tries to fix the major lies and deceptions of the foundation of the Cult of Herbert Armstrong, with its asinine British Israelism as "The Key to Prophecy" without belief in which, no one of the 1950s could be baptized, and the bogus church history, it's still a heresy by any Christian / Biblical standard anyone might want to apply.
Moreover, it's apparent that Herbert Armstrong did not fit within Biblical Standards of any kind of minister.
But that's OK, since he put up his shingle as a self-appointed End Time Apostle (which title simply doesn't exist) and went into the business of selling psychotic fantasy. If anything, his religion is sociological toxin.
So now we have people all over the place who absolutely INSIST they have the truth and Mr. Luker was a good man as a minister. This is what is known as buying into fantasy. It's the religious equivalent of making silk out of a sow's ear.
Dennis Luker is simply not and never has been a minister of Jesus Christ, no more than the man who committed adultery on his wife while she was dying of cancer, but who started his own ACoG anyway and wonders why it's not working.
This is no different from getting all weepy for a minister who's a Mormon, Scientologist, Islam or any number of ersatz religions. As a humanitarian reaction for a fellow human being -- that's valid: As a minister (who does not fit the Biblical Standard), no.
All of Armstrongism is totally bogus and so is the so-called "ministry".
Doug,
"And Velvet, I might agree with you accept my experience and that Scripture that says, "I will curse your blessings".
You might still be right and I certainly don't want to discourage you, since you come up with some perspectives which have merit (even if occasionally, I don't like them)."
Well, at least no one can accuse me of ever saying I am absolutely right and everyone must follow me. Even if I do lose my temper as I did in the earlier comments...for which I apologized on the current, and will apologize for, on the post where I did so.
Do my perspective "have merit"? I don't know. My perspective is an inside look at the Church how it is right now, anyway. Warts and all! I know I've said this before, but I am sorry you went through bad experiences in the Church. I'm sorry for everyone who had bad experiences in the Church.
Anon March 2, 2013 at 1:44 PM said: Lake of fire, karma, jesus saves, etc. Face reality, it's all a myth. And Armstrong figured out how to manipulate it all, now the splinter phonies are simply copying. As long as you believe in lakes of fire, karma, and jesus saves, you continue to thwart progress of the human race.
In looking at this comment and some of the others in this thread I am curious as to just what the expected “progress” is. It doesn’t seem to be the extension of human life nor is there any indication of finding solutions for what appears to be a broken social system that is perpetually on the brink of war. Just what are the progress expectations?
It doesn’t seem to be the extension of human life nor is there any indication of finding solutions for what appears to be a broken social system that is perpetually on the brink of war.
Should firm that up: They don't just appear to be on the brink of war, they are at war!
And it looks like they will all lose.
"I am curious as to just what the expected “progress” is. It doesn’t seem to be the extension of human life nor is there any indication of finding solutions for what appears to be a broken social system that is perpetually on the brink of war. Just what are the progress expectations?"
Is that a joke?? No extension of human life? What was the expected life span a few hundred years ago? The extension we now enjoy, is it due to belief in god, or science???? Or did I miss the instructions for open heart surgery somewhere in Leviticus?
In a historical context, we are just emerging from chaos. Humanity is trying on self-government, and in some places it works well and people enjoy a peace and prosperity that could never have been envisioned by their forefathers. But some don't.
So what? What are you implying here? That we give up and turn to religion, which contributes nothing tangible to human progress, and puts off it's promises until after death or The End of Time? Oh please. Imaginary beings have only imaginary solutions.
Paul Ray
Not only do I agree with Paul that religion contributes nothing tangible to human progress, it actually stands squarely in the way of it.
Look at the Arab world. They practically invented mathematics and astronomy while Europe was a backwater. Then fundamentalist Islam came in and shut all of that down for good. How many Nobel prize winners go to Muslims? You can count them on one hand. If it weren't for oil, the entire middle east would be in the same economic condition that much of Africa is in because Islam won't permit the formation of the critical mass of learning that is necessary for tangible progress.
I remember that story in the Bible about the tower of Babel and how god said something along the line of we have to stop man now before he becomes as one of us. Perhaps man was too evil as well, but within man there is a tremendous ability to do things. Back then didn't they have much longer life spans too, which were then reduced probably with fiddling around with the DNA. It has already been discovered that the key to much longer lives is DNA related and might not be impossible to change. Too late for me now, but I have already gone thru open heart surgery. What a nightmare having ones ribs broken open. I do believe that was to protect the chest and heart, or is it a design flaw as far as fixing it goes? For a long time I was looking forward to my spirit body, but now it seems I had better keep this one going as long as possible, I might not get another.
Head Usher is right about religion too. Arabs are very bright people, look at Steve Jobs and many others when they come to the U.S. The Catholic Church held back knowledge too, in the past it was Galileo, now they don't allow birth control.
Just out:
Dennis Lucre claims he has figured out how to take the money with him.
He claims the millions he has wrested of simple working suckers
will come in handy in the next place and buy him continued comfort and pleasure.
Question “So what? What are you implying here? That we give up and turn to religion,”
Comment: My original question was just what is the “progress” expectations; had nothing to do with religion. It was a simple matter of addressing the accusation that progress of the human race was being thwarted. If it is being thwarted what are the expectations and what can we do about it?
What I find somewhat difficult to understand is why so many comments seem to indicate that the person is totally dissatisfied with what has happened or is happening, but do not seem to recognize that not everyone has been adversely affected by the events under discussion.
I have lived a long life and my religious beliefs have enhanced that life not taken away from it, but I certainly recognize that this life is limited and I see nothing from science or technology that will change this. I personally have no complaints, but a life without some type of purpose beyond human pleasure during its existence is a futile experience after it has passed the normal aging process. I was just curious about the ideas that exist when there is no religion.
In answer to Anonymous from 2:31pm. I am no longer religious. I would become religious again if I found something convincing, but I am not interested in fear based beliefs, or stupid things that don't make sense. Human existence is not futile to me. I have had my share of depression and misery, but there is still joy to be had. I cannot understand a person only finding life meaningful if they believe in something beyond this life.
The truth is, we just don't know, maybe we will find out, or maybe we won't. In the meantime my life is not just about human pleasure. When I was younger my life was about raising my family and working hard. I found this enjoyable even though it was difficult. Now I am finding pleasure in more simple things, even being on the internet is great. Life itself is precious, why waste time agonising about what we don't know? I try to be somewhat kind, but not weak, I have no desire to kill or steal or do lots of 'sins'.
What science and technology have done for us are many things. Without it we might be living in the forest building fires to stay warm and hunting animals for food. Always hungry, always cold and dirty. Now I can be warm, watch TV, cook a meal, see after it gets dark. Drive a car......I love it. Sure there are lots of problems, but it is better than it was in the middle ages.
I actually found it mind expanding not to know there is anything after this life. It opens your mind to a lot of possibilities rather than a rigid belief in a story. We do not know, maybe that is part of the test, to see how we do not knowing.
my reply was to anonymous from 3:40 I think........ wouldn't it be funny if there was only one anonymous writing all this stuff
The bible says, "when the wicked die, the people rejoice."
Good riddance. Die soon, scumbag.
For those of you who have burnt their bibles, it is in Prov 11:10:
http://bible.cc/proverbs/11-10.htm
"When it goeth well with the righteous, the city rejoiceth: and when the wicked perish, there is shouting." (KJV)
"When the righteous prosper, the city rejoices; when the wicked perish, there are shouts of joy." (NIV).
Enough with the ridiculous well-wishers. If you people were righteous you would rejoice at the death of the wicked. How do we know he is wicked? You know them by fruits. Didn't you people learn ANYTHING in the COGs?
Did anybody die the next day who was annoited by Jesus? No damn chance. So this talk about saving her from suffering is bullshit.
"Of all the ex-members [blah blah blah] the most arrogant, stiff-necked, hard-hearted, and generally just all around flat-out NASTY people, are the ones who [blah] "profess Jesus with their lips but profane Him with their hearts"
Well, now that you have met me, you can shove that bullshit where the sun don't shine, because I do not profess Jesus and I say Luker should die and suffer and rot in hell. So I am nastier! Proudly so.
You shitheads who wish well to Puker should go out and slay a couple of hundred uncirumcised Philistines. You profess Jesus with your lips but your head is up your ass and you don't know your holy righteous glorious infallible bibles. You sound like a bunch of syropy Protestants.
Retired Prof said...
"I never knew Dennis Luker. ...But even if he were one of the reprehensible con men, this is no way to address a fellow human being."
Hey Prof: Have you considered taking a second retirement?
Jesus.
News flash: Dennis Luker is a cult leader. i.e. He is evil. He is the enemy.
"I never knew Dennis Luker. ...But even if he were one of the reprehensible con men, this is no way to address a fellow human being."
What did the men of God in the bible do to their fellow humans? They killed them.
Read your bible. Dennis Luker does.
To those people who cannot for one simple moment let go of their own hurt and sympathise, even a little, for this man, a fellow human being, who is suffering a terminal disease that I, for one, wouldn't wish upon anyone friend or foe--whatever his/her sins might be--may I make a suggestion that they seriously consider seeking professional help.
I second that, Liam
Well. THAT escalated quickly, didn't it?
I would hope, even when I was at my most bitter, I wouldn't have posted along the same lines as the anonymous poster who seems to have spammed the comments. I can't cast any stones, because I honestly don't recall if I did or didn't.
Having had several family members pass from cancer, I certainly would never say anything along those lines now; and that was why I made the comment I did, about the anointing of the elder's wife. Not that I should have to defend myself from what is clearly a trollish attempt to incite response.
While I could think of many more people in the COG who I'd like to see suffer unimaginable pain and distress than Luker, he is still not an innocent man by any means. For decades he has been a part of the problem, not the solution, by remaining an active enforcer in the cult of COGs.
He deserves to suffer just as he has made others suffer. I only hope Meredith, Pack, Flurry, Franks, and Horchak have an equally painful path to their graves.
"...clearly a trollish attempt to incite response"
1) You are ignorant so you just make shit up. I am not trying to incite response. In fact, I prefer that you remain silent.
2) So the people who are against cult-leaders on this site are now the trolls? Well, I say the GCI people are the trolls. Take a hike. First you people hijacked the church and now you want to hijack this forum.
By the way, "troll" is a hateful ugly word. And you call yourself Christian?
I suggest that the God of the bible and the people who follow him get some professional help, for the bible says "God is angry with the wicked every day". (That is in Psalm 7).
Christians worship a God who needs more help than I do. He's been angry for 6000 years!
The bible says people will be judged by their own measure (Matt 7?), so I am judging them by the book they read.
lots of COG type people threaten those who leave their beliefs with horrible things, like suffering in the tribulation in unimaginable ways and ultimately being burned up in the Lake of Fire, while those at the right hand of God look on. During the 100 years rule when those who didn't commit the unpardonable sin will be resurrected, people will be stoned and put to death for rebelling against the totalitarian government that so many COG people are looking forward to. It is all very ugly. No wonder people are upset.
The COGs have bad things to say about us former members. They say we are the most evil of all. We knew "the truth" and rejected it. We are so bad, that any sin can be forgiven but ours.
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