Commercial Break: A Most Awful Presentation on "Let's Talk About the Bible"

"Let's Talk About The Bible"

...badly and in the most shallow of ways

Bob Thiel notes:

"In II Corinthians  3:14 -16  unconverted experts who claim to have knowledge tend to have a veil of blindness so there are just areas they just can't see.  Always learning and never able to come to knowledge of the truth...."

Dr Bob refers to but fails to actually quote...

2 Corinthians 3:12-16

"Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the LORD, the veil is taken away."

Before continuing, and just for fun, I'd like to point out how Paul and now Bob Thiel in his simplistic "Because the Bible say so" preaching, turned the story of Moses and the Veil on it's head, making it mean what it never meant. 

The actual story referred to is...

"As Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the commandments in his hands, he did not know that the skin of his face had become radiant while he conversed with the LORD….the children of Israel…were afraid to come near him….He put a veil over his face. Whenever Moses entered the presence of the LORD to converse with him, he removed the veil until he came out again. On coming out, he would tell the children of Israel all that had been commanded. Then the children of Israel would see that the skin of Moses’ face was radiant; so he would again put the veil over his face until he went in to converse with the LORD (Exodus 34)."

Paul says the veil, now a blindfold,  was so the Israelites could not see the end of the law coming. They were blindfolded by the veil.  To this day they remain ignorant of the meaning of their own scriptures. Jesus took away the veil of this ignorance. Even to this day, the veil is a blindfold to the Jews , to their eyes and now to their hearts. But it's all good. Jesus can take away the blindfold.

Of course, this is not what the ACTUAL story in Exodus says or means. It actually says the opposite. The people saw and understood the Law of God very well when Moses explained it to them.  Giving the Law as presented to him by God made his face shine! The veil had NOTHING to do with being a blindfold on Moses or the people.  Paul, as is his custom, is overreaching here for a way to weave his tale in the New Testament. 

The reality of the story...

Moses is given the Law on Mt Sinai by God. Coming down the mountain to deliver the Law to the Children of Israel he did not realize his face shone having been in God's presence and it frightened the people to see it so. Moses puts on a veil to cover the glory of God's brightness, in his own face,  when he is NOT SPEAKING with God. He would not wear the veil in God's presence. 

So here, God is giving Moses and Israel the Law and the veil is not worn when Moses is with God. A veil is worn to shield the people from the "afterglow", so to speak, as it frightens them, when Moses comes down the mountain after being with God. 

The giving of the Law of God to Moses causes Moses face to shine. It does not blind him to the law. It does not foreshadow the passing away of the Law in the New Testament. The glory of the Law being given by God shines through him.  

The veil is NOT a BLINDFOLD as Paul makes it out to be in the NT.  The veil is NOT a symbol of the glory of the law passing such that it is now a blindfold on the Jews. 

 Paul turns the meaning of the story on its head to fit his Gospel tale. Paul often does this and is the master of making the OT mean what it never meant. How he was a Pharisee of the Pharisees, "above his fellows, concerning the law, blameless" etc is beyond most theologians. 

Bob, claims himself to be a Bible scholar in this presentation.  Most Church of God Apostles, Prophets and Pastors, would have claimed a similar training,  at least of some sort, if they wish to be considered credible. However,  you'd never know it from this presentation.  

Sheldon Monson, no doubt, would have to claim the same thing. After all, he is starting his own True Church. But Sheldon too is just another Bible reader needing a following after being rejected by Mom. 

Both these men are not Bible Scholars but just Bible readers and Biblical Hobbyists, wearing a blindfold to that reality.... to this day.

(Note:  I also am not a Bible Scholar. My WCG training did not qualify as actual Biblical studies. It did not actually prepare me or anyone I know for ministry. One simply got thrown into the Lion's Den of ministry and learned the hard way if they learned at all.   In WCG and now in all the splinters, Pastors are simply teaching what the leadership believes and expects to be taught. There is no discussion, no challenges to interpretation, and no wiggle room to see anything differently than taught and not be dis-membered. There is certainly no accountability or checks and balances on stupidity, egocentric beliefs, or cornball ideas.   "Come let us reason TOGETHER" is never how it worked. It can't in such a "because I say so" culture.)  

And now we return to your normally scheduled programming

Gerald Weston: If You Go Against His "authoritative judgement" are "you doing so at your own peril?"

 

Why do COG leaders have the incessant need to CONTINUALLY threaten members? Scripture is filled with stories of Jesus and other faithful people breaking bread or associating with prostitutes, lepers, menstruating women, eunuchs, tax collectors, and other undesirables or "unclean" people. What we also see is Jesus CONSTANTLY pointing out the evils of CHURCH LEADERS and how they bind people up with absurd and offensive teachings, doctrines, and constant threats of losing one's salvation.

Geerald Weston has a problem with ANYONE questioning his leadership.

COGNews had this up:

...the Sabbath service on August 8th, streamed live to all congregations – sermonette from Wallace Smith and sermon from Gerald Weston – was devoted to explaining why church members are required to obey all leadership decisions, and therefore comply with the new (temporary) normal in hymn singing, i.e. “for those of you at home, you will be singing along, and those at services will be contemplating and humming along as we can.”

Gerald Weston referred to Wallace Smith’s sermonette, noting, “these were not decisions made by lay members, but by duly ordained leaders and judges that God had placed in a position of authoritative judgement. We have a situation today where people are saying, well, if I can’t sing, I’m not going to go where the church has placed its name for the feast. We’re just going to have our own feast. Did God ordain you with the responsibility to decide where Christ is going to place His name? If you do that, you are doing so at your own peril.”

Low Level COG Prophet Claims He Has Integrity And That People Need To Humble Themselves to Follow Him

 

In his endless quest to try and legitimize himself in the eyes of his African followers, our favorite Petulant Prophet of Possiblys and Great White Bwana to Africa, Bob Thiel, claims he has the integrity to be leading a rebellious splinter group of the Living Church of God.

The end time Christians. Notice what Jesus stated and something the Apostle Peter wrote:

19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. (John 15:19, NKJV)

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. (1 Peter 2:9-10, KJV)

This is a peculiar people. These are people who the world does not desire. These are Philadelphian Christians.

How do we know that Zephaniah 2:1-3 is related to Christians?

Because the decree is for the end time and because of what else God inspired Zephaniah to write:

3 Seek the Lord, all you meek of the earth, Who have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility. (Zephaniah 2:3a)

The above is a reference to Christians as they are to be the “meek of the earth” (Matthew 5:5) and to Philadelphians who “have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility.” These are Philadelphian Christians who understand that church leaders need to have integrity and are willing to be humble enough to accept the authority of a church led by a low-level prophet in the absence of a clear apostle (cf. 1 Corinthians 12:28; Ephesians 4:11-15). They are humble enough to not think that they should remain ‘independent,’ as many who once were part of the old Worldwide Church of God, during this Laodicean time, have done.

Apparently, all true followers of God must humble themselves and kneel at Bwana Bob's feet and acknowledge him as the true leader in the church right now. After all, he is a low-level prophet and that qualifies him. Then to insult COG members who do not feel inclined to follow him and remain independent, he says they are not humble enough to accept his prophethood status.

For they are the only ones who will actually ‘gather together’ as they should. 

Why?

Because it is they who will lead the final phase of the work and it is only to the Philadelphians that Jesus promises to protect from the coming hour of trial, also referred to as the Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord:

Once again, our favorite Petulant Prophet of the church says all COG members are too dumb to know when the crap is hitting the fan and will not be allowed to join up with his group in Petra or wherever he next dreams they are all going.

Who is the only Church of God in the 21st century to teach all of this?

The [improperly named] Continuing Church of God.

If you are not in Bwana Bob's personality cult then you will not be able to flee. 

If you are not with the group that is leading the final phase of the workwill you not be able to flee if you wait until the last moment? While that may be remotely possible for some, remember that God inspired Zephaniah to admonish God’s people to ‘gather together…before the decree is issued.’

Dreamy prophets are the way to go now in the Church of God.  No other COG has such a fantastic dreamweaver than the improperly named "continuing" Church of God does. that alone should make every single one of us join his group. But, woe be tot eh scoffers and the doubters!  How dare you!

Most will discount this and many will scoff. Most COGs do not have anyone considered to be a prophet, and in those other than CCOG who claim to have prophets, those prophets have been proven to be false. But the Bible says that there will be prophets in the last days and that God does communicate with them in dreams.

All Church of God groups currently in action today are nothing more than useless bumbling minuscule groups that run to and fro looking for a real prophet to lead them. The COG has never had a man more equipped to be a prophet than the one who is completely without error, which currently is Bwana Bob.  

We in the Continuing Church of God “have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts” (2 Peter 1:19, KJV).”

Whip out those checkbooks and get on your knees and humbly repent before God for failing to acknowledge the ONE TRUE MAN that God has sent to lead the church to the place of safety. 

 

Bad Theology = Bad Ethic's = No Relationship With God = Failure of COG's

The blog entry below is copied from a blog that was referred to the mentors of the Theology class I facilitate.

One thing I always tell those in my group is to question.  Question why a minister says what he or she says, question whether a belief is relevant to today's society, question dogma mired in the 16th century world that is irrelevant to their Christian walk today, etc.  So many people walk through the doors of a church and  check their brain in the vestibule.

Armstrongism created a world that lives in black and white issues.  The answer to everything has to come from writings of HWA or the ministry. There is no room for doubt, to question, or to have anger.

When you look at the early church Fathers and Mothers these were men and women who questioned, argued with and were sometimes angry with God.  Yet through it all they developed a deeper spiritual life.  There was room for growth and a desire to grow upward.

Armstrongism desires to shrink backwards.  It seems it cannot exist without reverting back to 1986 and earlier.  If Herb did not say it, then it is irrelevant to daily life.

It's time for UCG members and COG members as a whole to get off their butt's and start questioning your ethically and morally bankrupt Elder's/ministers, question your doctrines, and more importantly, question why you continue to allow yourself to be sucked into the cesspool that Armstrongism is sinking into.  There is freedom out there.  There is Grace.  It's there waiting, unconditionally.

Everyone Is A Theologian

There is a statement that I hear way too often, and it is one that makes me sad and angry:

I am not a theologian.

Most often, I hear it when I am teaching a class of some sort, and have shared a thought that seems contrary to what someone has spent most of their life believing.  Sometimes it is said when I have shared some information that someone has never heard before.  Most often, however, it comes when I am engaged in a conversation with someone during which we are sharing what we believe, and my conversation partner ends up “stuck” as they try to describe their understanding of something.

“Well, I haven’t really thought about it as much as you have,” they say. “I have a pretty simple faith. I’m not really a theologian.”

I hate that, and I try to never put someone who is earnestly trying to talk about God in that kind of place.  I would like to ask you to never say anything like that, ever again in your life.  I want you to remember something very important: We are all theologians. While it is true that some of us are more formally trained in theology (to greater and lesser degrees), this group of people are not the only ones who can claim to be “theologians.”  That title belongs to everyone, and we need to begin reclaiming it.

To be a theologian simply means that you “talk about God.”  That’s what the word theology means: (from the Greek) theos = god; logos = words or speech.  To be a theologian means that you try to put your ideas about God into words.  More specifically, because of what our scriptures say, we can say that the task of theology is our attempt to describe what we understand about God, what we understand about creation, and what we understand about the relationship between that two.  You can, honestly, have any kind of theology that you want.  There is no one, right way to think about something (despite what many so-called theologians might say).

Theologies are not created equal, however.  Some do a better job of describing God (at least according to other people), and they are instructive to the rest of us whose theological understanding might be lack in comparison.  There are many of these “better” theologies and they all have a few things in common.

They are consistent with the Bible. Any good Christian theology has its origin in the Bible.  The logic is sort of circular, but Christians believe that God was revealed to humanity in the person of Jesus Christ and that the Bible is the best witness we have to who Jesus was and what he did.  You’re theology does not have to be considered a “Biblical Theology,” but the themes of a Christian theology does have to be consistent with the themes of the scripture.

They are Good News. When it comes to theology, the opposite of Good News is not Bad News.  It’s Irrelevant News – news that is nice, but doesn’t mean anything important.

Imagine that you have just pulled into your driveway after being fired. You’re struggling with how to tell your spouse, and I run up to you and tell you that you daughter is at a friend’s house playing. That would be interesting news to hear, but, in the context of the moment, irrelevant.

Now imagine that you’ve just pulled into your driveway and your house is on fire.  You’re very scared and worried about your family, and I run up to you and tell you that your daughter is at a friend’s house playing.  In that moment, knowing where your daughter is constitutes good news.

Too often our theologies are full of interesting things that are true, but they are irrelevant to people’s’ lives.  They don’t address the situations in which people are living.  They don’t offer answers to questions people are asking.

They are humble. One of my favorite stories from the history of my religious tradition

A good theology will be one which says the best thing it knows how to say at the time, and, yet, leaves room for growth in our understanding of God.  There are things about God which I believe are eternally true, but I also believe that I don’t know what those are and that my ability to grasp what God is up to (hopefully) grows as I live my life.

If I have the same theology today as I did yesterday, then I need to take a hard look at some things.

They produce good ethics. One reality which I find very amusing is when I have people tearing me down for having what they deem as “incorrect theology.”  To them, anything I might say is an affront to the glory of God and I must be stopped at all costs.  I’m actually fine with them up to this point.  They are welcome to their opinion.  It’s the way they do it that I find wrong.

Jesus, himself, said that he came to do some things (give sight to the blind, set captives free, etc.).  Theology produces action, and if it is a faithful theology it produces good actions.  To my point above: if our theology allows us to treat one another badly, then we need another theology.

They are bold. No one ever came to understand the saving power of Christ because of an unassuming theological viewpoint.  Good theology shouts the Good News from the mountaintops.

We should never be afraid of messing up as we try to describe the great things God has done.  How is it wrong to try to tell the world all the marvelous things you’ve experienced?  Sure, we always try to be more clear and consistent tomorrow than we were yesterday.  But that should never stop us from speaking.  We’re not going to do God any harm be giving it our best as we proclaim Christ’s Grace and Peace.

Theology is actually something we all do, and something we all need to do. No one of us has a monopoly on thoughts and ideas about God.  Please share yours with each other so that, together, we might better share it with the world.

So…What do you believe about God, creation, and the relationship between the two?

The Metanoia Project