New International Version
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
I spent my youth well into middle age, sorta, being told and somewhat believing that I would not die but actually luck out and live in the times when I'd merely twinkle into being "God as God is God."
I just suspected I'd rather twinkle in an eye than die in a nursing home or in some other less than twinkly way. Here is a short list of the big names who tried to convince themselves, me and you of that.
(I'd say Gospel Jesus, but you'd just get angry)
Peter
James
John
Paul
2000 Years of Church Fathers
Herbert W Armstrong
Garner Ted Armstrong
Roderick C. Meredith
...and some other leading evangelists.....
Joseph W Tkach
Hermann Hoeh
Dean Blackwell
Ernest Martin
John Halford
Dibar Apartian
David John Hill
Stanley R Rader
Gerald Waterhouse
........are dead and lived their entire lives as if they wouldn't die
Therefore and thus sayeth myself in what I would like to be remembered as the "No Brainer, I'm Pretty Sure I'm Right Prophecy"
Dave Pack
Gerald Flurry
Robert Thiel
Gerald Weston
Victor Kubic
Wade Cox
James Malm
Dennis Diehl
YOU
...to follow
Between being convinced we were chosen, special, set apart, protected, watched over and unique, we gave others permission to waste our time and forgot...
My personal suggestion...
38 comments:
William Shatner (with some help from Ben Folds) said it well:
You'll Have Time (You're Gonna Die)
and in the last days scoffers will come...
In general, the church had always urged its members to plan for a long term stay in this physical life (getting married, having children, developing skills, plan for retirement, plan for trips and vacations, etc), but also to be spiritually ready for Christ's imminent return as well. They also said over and over again that no one is guaranteed to be here tomorrow ("You could get hit by a bus tonight, if that's God's will."), so we need to be spiritually ready to meet our Maker every day. At least that's the sense I had on it all.
I'm not sure what Dennis is saying in this article?
I don't think devout Christians live their lives as though they will live forever. They know that their eternal reward is according to effort, so it's work, work, work. It's the atheists and those who have fallen away that live the lazy life of wine, women and song.
Dennis-
You need a girlfriend!
To quote William Shatner ..."Get a life, will you people? I mean, I mean, for crying out loud, ...."you ever kissed a girl?"
7.21 AM
Plan for the long term?? I remind you of Herbs, over forty years "I tell you in the name of the living God that we only have 3 to 5 short years before Christs return."
How can the church be urging the members to plan long term with this calculated lie?
Re writing history is not a admirable quality.
Connie
William Shatner 'get a life,' was directed at Trekkie fans. He was mistake. He failed, and perhaps still fails to comprehend the draw of Star Trek. This is understandable considering his non intellectual choleric temperament. In short, the TV program is the embodiment of the enlightenment, where objective reality and reason are highly valued. Mr Spock represents the supremacy of logic over (irrational)emotion.
This is in contrast to todays culture which is at war with these traits, as was Herbs own church.
I was always struck by the similarity in appearance between William Shatner and Herb minister Brian Orchard. I believe Brian is still a minister in a splinter. They are also the same temperament. A former work boss was this temperament. They are very hard to get along with. The African American woman who played Uhura wanted to quit because of William, but was persuaded to stay because of the cultural break through in portraying blacks as equals.
I think you should remove Ron darts name from the list. He talked openly in sermons about how brethren would visit his grave in years to come.
Prophets and their prognostications are a blight on mankind's search for happiness, preventing enjoyment of the moment. No way to enjoy today if we are worrying about the things that probably will not occur tomorrow.
Why can't we try to enjoy each day, be thankful for what we have, and wait for the surprises life has to offer?
So happy I am not a meteorologist. Must get old being wrong so often. Never seemed to bother HWA or his clones though.
there's no such thing as death....
Dennis is right on! (And I am sad for those who are unable to follow what he's saying.)
Pack says to live like time is short, and send in your money, 2nd mortgage, etc... Since you won't be around to pay it back! He's been claiming only 3- 5 more years for as long as RCG has been around.
Funny you mention those characters, Anon 1138. A year or two ago I had to direct a shoot including both Shatner and Nichols.
They were both easy to work with, although I got the impression Shatner was a tired grump doing the gig for the paycheck. Couldnt totally blame him, I was there for the same reason.
Nichols was a very sweet lady though.
I have always lived my life to the fullest. You should live your life as though today is the last day of your life.
Since you won't be around to pay it back!
In an FOT sermon back in the 1970s, Denny Luker said HWA managed to get a huge loan from some Arab financiers. When he said the repayment was to be made in 25 years, the audience broke into uproarious laughter.
HWA certainly wasn't around to repay it...
If time is so short, why does Dave and similar need money at all?
12.37 PM. Sure, blame the victim. It is a writers responsibility to make him/herself easily understood. It is not the responsibility of the readers to jump through loops trying to understand a article.
These are the sorts of problems one gets from people who work in a closed system where those in power are regarded as above criticism.
I would have loved to have seen former ministers in their new private industry jobs. Their childish antics would have no longer been tolerated. It must have been a shock to have people disagree, talk back, complain and fight back. Oh the inhumanity of it all.
True Bread said...
there's no such thing as death....
Even though, of course, there is...
There was always an unspoken dynamic in the church that time was short and Christ was returning shortly, therefore don't make long-term plans. The ministry knew this and took advantage of the "dumb sheep" that they extracted tithes from. I do remember ministers saying that we could all die before the second coming but that was drown-out by all the speculation about prophecy that the same leaders put out also. It was a double message that kept many of us from enjoying life and actually doing something with our lives.
Blogger DennisCDiehl said...
True Bread said...
there's no such thing as death....
Even though, of course, there is...
February 12, 2018 at 5:38 PM
Ahhhh.....perfectly played Dennis....you took the bait....I knew you would.
I have more....
Prophecy can make for interesting discussion, whether it’s from the Bible, from Nostradamus, or whomever.
My problem is with anyone who uses his own prophetic theories and interpretations to scare, coerce and manipulate his fellow human beings into complying with his demands. It makes things doubly bad when the prophecies are proven wrong, yet the next generation explains the wrongness away, and continues to use them to manipulate and defraud.
The age of the prophets has long since passed. Anyone who allows their behavior to be manipulated by someone claiming to be a prophet, or claiming to have special insights into prophecy is a total fool.
BB
"...live your life as though today is the last day of your life."
I would have to quit my job and go around handing out money.
So glad you decided to keep on writing, Dennis. I know some people don't like either you or me, but don't let them win by allowing them to deter you. Oh, and please accept my friend request on Facebook. I lost the Allen Dexter page and am now Allen C. Dexter. Had to start over.
"... of the cultural break through in portraying blacks as equals."
That's great. When are they going to start portraying men as equals?
MGTOW.
So glad you decided to keep on writing, Dennis. I know some people don't like either you or me, but don't let them win by allowing them to deter you. Oh, and please accept my friend request on Facebook. I lost the Allen Dexter page and am now Allen C. Dexter. Had to start over.
"and in the last days scoffers will come..."
Scoffers have been around for 2000 years. Are we in the last days yet? How can you tell?
-- Scoffer.
Ohhhhh Allen, send it again. I had you down as a friend already and didn't catch the change. I got the request but thought it was fake. I had my New Ipad stolen awhile back and get phishing emails from those that are wanting to get into it. Thought it might be another.
BB noted: The age of the prophets has long since passed. Anyone who allows their behavior to be manipulated by someone claiming to be a prophet, or claiming to have special insights into prophecy is a total fool.
The reason for that is that they so often failed or at best guessed right about as much as they guessed wrong. They also had no special insights in the day and every "thus saith the Lord" or " the Lord spoke unto me" was simply in their heads. The study of failed OT prophecies will clearly show this. They were just as foolish then as now.
Well, I have a problem. I thought I was back into my original account before the Allen Dexter account, but Facebook just blocked me and I have to jump through hoops to get back into some account. All is on hold right now.
Preterism my friends.
Christ came in 70AD as he said he would.
Those who believed him then and before back to the very beginning are with him now.
The church says the apostles didn't get the timing. I say its the church that gets it wrong.
They are with him just as the thief is with him and just as all those who believe will be with him.
That would be one theory. {;-)~
BB
I have no idea what this blog is about anymore other than It’s about Dennis and his same old same old repetition and Self righteouss speculation made to get others believe it’s all true. I used to get a lot out of this blog but it seems like Dennis and his views are taking over.
Anon 7:21
It's so easy to "say" or write things to give plausible deniability, particularly effective looking back 30 years or more. That which was put into print then and now was/is carefully written to mean something to those with a COG background and something plausibly different to someone new that stumbles upon the website. The weekly sermons and church culture were something entirely different; it was there that the focus is determined. The results tell the story: people enrolling kids in school later, not taking care of physical issues, long-term financial planning, church buildings were not built, etc. The time was indeed very short, but if you bought into it, "don't blame us; we every now and again wrote in our magazine that 'we should prepare for the future.'"
Blogger True Bread said...
there's no such thing as death....
February 12, 2018 at 12:35 PM
yeah that's pretty much what Satan told Eve.....
Scoffers have been around for 2000 years. Are we in the last days yet? How can you tell?
-- Scoffer.
February 12, 2018 at 7:30 PM
the last days began at Jesus' death...the latter days aren't here yet...
Ekklesia.
Interesting that you admit to different interpretation of the same data.
If that can is opened it is a quick step to see how also within the church body the same data might produce different results for 1st _ vs 2nd or 3rd generation, older people - versus 18 year olds, engineers from the oil industry or self employed - vs low income families, spiritual widows - vs entire extended families, people with evangelical upbringing - vs catholics from Geneva.
Despite the effort of molding "renewed persons".
Nck
Herb was a master at using hedge statement such as "we don't set dates, however consider evidence A, B, C, etc." This way he persuaded members to his point of view while avoiding the legal repercussions. The bible condemn guile (cunning deception).
Let me asplain sumpin’ to you, 3:03.
There are internal processors (who keep their mental processes private), and there are external processors, who tend to share. Since a blog is a collection of participants who share ideas and information, blogging tends to attract external processors. Those of us who are external processors generally don’t care about negative feedback. For the most part, we tend to glom on to the positive feedback which we receive from our fellow participants, and to realize that those who take umbrage with our premises are either of a different mindset, or in some cases, simply don’t understand.
We tend to repeat ourselves, to clarify, and to add deeper factual
material to our dissertations over the weeks and months we spend here. That is because when we explain our realities to those who do disagree, they often act as if their challenges had not been addressed, and, rather than respond with a flow of additional thoughts and ideas of their own, they state and restate their cultic programming, as if expecting continual restatement to make lightbulbs go off. That is not an effective method in educating people away from a mindset.
I tend to disagree with much of what Dennis shares. I believe he has made some unwarranted leaps in coming to many of his conclusions. But, he is a thinker, and it is worthwhile for me to ponder what he presents, because every once in a while he comes up with a nugget or gem that I can use. You also must remember that we do have new people coming here all the time. There is constant turnover. Not everyone has seen what a snapshot of the blog a year ago would have revealed that “everyone” knew at that time. How many newbies have we seen over the years, as an example, who have just heard about the incest, and want additional documentation of that?
There’s an old saying, “It is what it is”. I wouldn’t say “Love it or leave it”, but just that the things one might like or dislike tend to come or go as time progresses. If everyone agreed with a set of group think, we’d be just like the cult we came out of, and there would be no point in even having a blog. There is no set group think here, and even if there were, I doubt that Dennis would find it very appealing to be the leader of it.
BB
Hi nck,
For sure there are different interpretations of the same words used. In the COGs today they will give benign sounding sermons (generally banal), but they still always seem to bring in Korah's rebellion, withholding tithe, excitement of WCG, true ministers, etc.
These are all used in hearkening back to WCG teachings. Someone new might think Korah's rebellion was about disobeying God, but we with a WCG background know that it is churchspeak for obeying self-proclaimed ministers. For someone without a WCG background, tithing might be equivalent to giving or something perhaps they should be doing (they shouldn't- tithing is not in effect now); not the salvation determining and insurance against financial problems that WCG taught.
There are many of these, I'm sure you are aware. However, you might have been getting at something different. You might have to expressly state that if you want a better response.
Hello Ekklesia,
I do agree with your 2:32 expansion.
Still there is a major difference between your 2:32 and my 7:19.
2:32 speaks about (outsiders or new engagers) whereas my 7:19 speaks about differences of interpretation and processing of information from WITHIN the old wcg (- I'm quite unfamiliar with the modern fractioned factions), due to generational experiences, socio economic stratification etc etc etc
The interpretation of tithing to the old Rockefeller and other tycoons was indeed quite different from a wcg family walking on a tightrope. (altough I did imply I knew many people in wcg working in the oil industry) Their definition and experience of driving two hours to church in a comfortable car might have been different from people living on a shoestring. (I am not judging or condemning either, just observing.)
Now this is even stronger with people from different regions. My guess is that Australians brought a different influx or culture to wcg than let's say a genteel person from charleston carolina. A british wcg member may have processed certain information different from german wcg members. (btw my experience when visiting the german churches was that they were among the most relaxed of all wcg church areas. Probably due to a local culture that had done away with ANYTHING reaking of strong hierarchial control after some mishap that had occured in their respective culture by choosing to follow a political ictatorial leadership. So there was strong bias against that and emphasis on stakeholder management, which by the way is the Rheinland model as compared to the Anglo Saxon economic shareholder model with 3 month reporting.
So yes both our postings have quite a different angle, although I do not necessarily disagree with your comments.
nck
Post a Comment