Tony Buchert’s Civil Disobedience
The Church of God International’s Medina, Ohio congregation was treated to a discourse this past Sabbath (10/16) on the “proper” understanding and application of the thirteenth chapter of Paul’s epistle to the saints at Rome as it relates to modern Christian resistance to the Covid-19 vaccines. According to Mr. Buchert, Paul’s instructions to the saints at Rome should not be interpreted to suggest that U.S. Christians should conform to government mandates regarding Covid vaccination. Mr. Buchert insisted that those who would dare to employ Paul’s instructions to those ancient folks in their arguments in favor of Christians being vaccinated in the Twenty-First Century are twisting Scripture and attempting to force these “good” people to violate their consciences!
The fact that Mr. Buchert saw fit to address this topic at all suggests that this scripture (Romans 13:1-5) has been troublesome for anti-vaxxer elements within the church. After all, Paul’s language in this instance was fairly straightforward and clear. He wrote: “Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished. For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you. The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course, you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong. So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment but also to keep a clear conscience.” Well, that’s plain enough, right? “Not so fast!” says Tony Buchert.
Mr. Buchert begins his diatribe with a statement of the obvious: This scripture does NOT sanction blind obedience by Christians of every law and edict of the human governments we are currently living under. As he goes on to point out, when some edict/law/mandate contradicts God’s law, Christians should not obey it! Indeed, as Mr. Buchert underscores, to do so would violate that Christian’s conscience and force him/her to violate God’s law. Even so, Mr. Buchert seemed to completely ignore the Christian’s obligation to submit to whatever penalty/punishment that the human government devises for those who would disobey its will. Yes, there are numerous examples of “civil disobedience” in Scripture, but many of the saints who engaged in such behavior often ended up suffering horrendous consequences for their failure to obey. For example, John the Baptist lost his head, and Jesus Christ was crucified! In other words, Christians are still obligated to SUBMIT to the authorities which Paul says that God has placed in charge.
Unfortunately, Mr. Buchert did not confine his arguments in this regard to Scripture. He also chose to introduce things like the Mayflower Compact, Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Federalist Papers into the conversation. In addition to condescendingly implying that the proponents of Covid vaccine mandates are unfamiliar with these documents, he strongly suggests that they buttress his arguments about personal and religious freedom relative to mandates.
And, although he never actually elucidated how those documents support his own views relative to vaccine resistance, he went on to proclaim that government officials must also conform to the Scriptural foundations on which they rest. Did Mr. Buchert forget the concept of the separation of Church and State? Does he understand that many of these secular authorities do not view themselves as serving at God’s pleasure? Does Mr. Buchert understand that the Kingdom of God does not yet currently reign over this earth? And what about the powers that those charters grant to the government (federal, state, and local) to protect the LIFE, liberty, and pursuit of happiness of its’ citizens? Does Mr. Buchert realize that government must be the arbiter when one citizen’s rights conflict with the free exercise of another citizen’s rights?
Unlike his citation of those august documents of American democracy, Mr. Buchert did actually employ the material of two extreme right-wing sources to support his anti-vaxxer views. Indeed, it came as no surprise to me that Mr. Buchert used material from Culture Watch and Project Veritas to buttress his message to his mentor’s (Pastor Bill Watson) congregation. On the Culture Watch website, we find the following headlines: “Do you think Biden should officially resign?”, “Pope Francis just put a big smile on Dr. Fauci’s face with this pro-vaccine demand”, and “A judge just smacked Planned Parenthood with the worst news they’ve ever gotten.” Likewise, on the Project Veritas homepage, we find headlines like “PFIZER LEAKS: Whistleblower Goes On Record, Reveals Internal Emails from Chief Scientific Officer & Senior Director of Worldwide Research Discussing COVID Vaccine ... ‘We Want to Avoid Having the Information on the Fetal Cells Floating Out There’.”
Obviously, Mr. Buchert is comfortable with sources that deal in conspiracy theories, misinformation, lies, and overt support of extreme political ideologies. For him, these voices should be given the same “rights” in the marketplace of ideas as those of scientists and public health officials! But I guess the end justifies the means – right? After all, Mr. Buchert points out that God rewarded the Egyptian midwives for lying to Pharoah when he questioned their disobedience of his edict regarding the murder of Israel’s male babies!
This is an example of what the Church of God International is currently allowing to be preached from its pulpits? Just when I was beginning to be encouraged by the voices of Jeff Reed and Vance Stinson within that organization, we have this! I guess we should all thank Mr. Buchert for giving voice to all of those poor Christians who are being asked to receive this wicked jab in their righteous arms!
Lonnie Hendrix
20 comments:
Armstrongism has generally treated the concept of trusting God and the concept of taking advantage of what modern medicine has to offer humanity as being mutual exclusives. The fact is, the two work quite nicely hand in hand. Many of the first hospitals here in the new magic land were founded by church groups. Look at their names, even today: St. Luke's, St. Joseph's, St. Jude's, Baptist Hospital, etc. etc. etc.
It's only been in the recent past decades that we've had hospitals named after major corporations.
HWA did not practice what he preached about medicine. But, he was very big on "Do as I say, not as I do!" It's always been the lay members in the church who have been expected to obey what the ministers arbitrarily say to their deaths. One of the deacons should have gone to the lecturn and gangster-slapped Tony Buchert and said "Bad Dog!"
Obey the government at all costs?
No way. Look what happened in Germany. If people didn't go along with Hitler then millions would have not have died. In all ways one has to relie on their good judgement.
I think you are stretching this one, Lonnie. Obviously there are monstrous leaders and issues that most would say were rightly challenged.
Anonymous 10/18 @ 11:37,
I agree with about Herbie not practicing what he preached in this instance. And I wholeheartedly endorse the notion that modern medicine and faith in God should not be regarded as alternatives. Indeed, they should be viewed as complimentary tools supplied by a loving God to help and assist us during our time in these temporary shelters.
Sweetblood777 said "Obey the government at all costs?" Did you read the post? I said in the article that I endorsed the principle that we should obey God when the edict of some human authority contradicts a Divine edict. However, even in this instance, we must be willing to submit to whatever penalty or punishment that the human authority decides to impose upon us for our defiance!
It is interesting that you cited the Hitler/Germany thing - Buchert did too. I would say that it's a bit of a stretch to compare a policy aimed at the deliberate extermination of an entire people with a policy designed to save as many folks as possible. Indeed, I would say that the continuing support of millions of Americans for the antidemocratic and reckless behaviors and policies of Donald Trump is more comparable to what happened in Germany relative to Hitler!
Earl,
I have no problem challenging leaders whom I believe to be monstrous (as witnessed by my relentless attacks on The Donald). Moreover, I don't have ANY problem with folks criticizing Biden, Pelosi or other Democrats (it's our right as citizens of this republic to do so). However, as the primary citizenship of Christians rests in God's Kingdom, it is more than a stretch to disregard or discount Paul's (and Christ's) clear instructions about our responsibilities vis-à-vis the government(s) that currently reign over us (I would say that it's an egregious breach). And, I obviously think that it is much harder to take a principled stance against a policy designed to protect the vulnerable amongst us (that seems pretty consistent with Christian values to me).
I'm not basing my objection on a particular application. I'm actually surprised that you are so supportive of the idea of submiting to government authorities (gives me a moment of pause). There are certain times that we do, but frankly I look at some scriptures as being directed to the time and place. There were slave revolts, Jewish revolts, etc. under the Roman empire and they were squashed. This plays a role in Paul's writing and the pragmatic approach of not gaining notoriety under a Roman government that will come with their short swords and make light work of those Christians looking at revolt (Jewish revolt in 66 A.D. showed the wisdom in this advice).
Your writing on the passage just seems overbroad. Submission I assume funnels down to the state and local level as well. What about the PTA if it decides to teach "approximate math", is that something that one submits to? I ask this sincerely because I think the line is hard to define...which might be evidence of Paul simply being pragmatic here. MAybe Paul is just thinking, "It's peaceful in the empire right now and we are allowed to practice our beliefs. But, boy can that change. Don't mess with the Romans!"
Earl,
I want to preface my remarks with another expression of my appreciation for the decorum and reason which you generally bring to these kinds of discussions (and, theologically, I often find myself in agreement with you).
First, I understand that you are espousing a general principle, but we are dealing with a critical real life situation in this instance. As you know, civil disobedience (as practiced by MLK and other Christians) is a non-violent/passive way to resist immoral/evil government practices/policies. I hope that I am one of those folks who always speaks out, and I always try to "practice what I preach." I'd like to think that I would have been one of those German citizens who hid Jews, Gypsies, folks with disabilities and homosexuals from the Nazis.
I personally also believe that there are times when a more proactive and aggressive response to evil is needed within the context of this world. For instance, I think WWII is a classic example of this (and I think that most Christians would feel very comfortable endorsing the decisions and actions of someone like Desmond Doss in that instance). I'd also like to think that I would have been part of the resistance to the Nazis within German held territories (doing things like helping to smuggle persecuted folks out of the country or maybe even sabotaging train lines to prevent their use as a means to transport folks to concentration camps). However, as a Christian, I still believe Paul and Christ have elucidated a clear principle here for Christians then and now - If we break their laws, we must submit to whatever punishment or penalty those authorities choose to impose upon us (like being crucified, beheaded or being marched to a gas chamber).
What do you think? Is that reasonable or am I being inconsistent?
Earl
Exactly. Colossians 3:21 "..don't provoke children least they become discouraged." Does this means that it's OK to abuse children if they aren't discouraged? Paul didn't talk about children's right to life or to be treated justly, because it would have been offensive to the Romans. In Roman culture, the wife and children were the rightless chattel of the husband. Paul pulled his punches in order to not to offend the Romans. Many scriptures need to be viewed with this in mind. Which is why the emphasis on obedience and the downplaying of assertiveness. Assertiveness is in the bible, but it's basically between the lines.
Today's culture, including Pharisaic Christianity, teaches over conformity. For instance, Christs example of overturning the money changers tables and driving out the animals in the temple is ignored.
Miller Jones is pushing over comformity since her preferred political group is in power.
Reducto ad Hitlerum is the lamest form of argument. Find a better comparison.
TONY BUCHERT IS A GOOD FREIND OF MINE, AND A FINE MINISTER OF GOD'S CHURCH. I LOVED HIS SERMON AND THINK HE NAILED IT PERFECTLY! THE NAZI'S USED ROMANS 13:1-7 TO HAVE PEOPLE FALL IN LINE! I'M SURE THE LEFTIST REGIME IN POWER IN THAT SWAMP CALLED WASHINGTON D.C. WOULD LOVE TO USE IT TOO! OH, THAT'S RIGHT THEY VOTED OVERWELMINGLY AT THE 2012 DNC, TO REMOVE GOD FROM THEIR PLATFORM!!! I WON'T BE COMMENTING ANYMORE ON HERE, BECAUSE I WON'T BE READING THIS TRIPE ANY LONGER! MY SUGGESTION TO YOU ALL ON HERE, IS TO GET A LIFE! OCCUPY YOUR TIME SERVING AND HELPING OTHERS, INSTEAD OF PISSING, AND MOANING ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE! SINCERLY, STEVEN W. HENDRIX
"BECAUSE I WON'T BE READING THIS TRIPE ANY LONGER! MY SUGGESTION TO YOU ALL ON HERE, IS TO GET A LIFE! OCCUPY YOUR TIME SERVING AND HELPING OTHERS, INSTEAD OF PISSING, AND MOANING ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE! SINCERLY, STEVEN W. HENDRIX"
Oh, Please! Shouting makes you look pathetic.
Go take a Midol and relax!
At least I had the courage to put my name on my comment.
"BECAUSE I WON'T BE READING THIS TRIPE ANY LONGER! "
Even after flouncing out of the blog when you slammed the door behind you in such a dramatic way, here you are. You just had to come back and check things out. Titillation is a fascinating thing to behold.
Steven,
I'm glad Tony Buchert is a good friend of yours. I hope that he will remain a good friend. I, however, am your brother - the one who held you as a baby, played with you as a child and has loved you all of your life.
I must say I was surprised to see your comment here. I didn't think you were interested in the content of this blog or visited here. I hope your good church friends didn't bring this to your attention and castigate you (or our father) for the things I've written here. If they did, you may wish to reevaluate the quality of their friendship!
As for the content, you are certainly entitled to disagree with me and characterize anything I've written as "tripe." Nevertheless, as you well know, I was baptized many years ago and have been a student of the Bible all of my life. You are also aware of the fact that my majors were history and political science in college, and that I have always been well-versed in current events and the intricacies of public policy. Hence, while you may not agree with anything I believe or write, do you really think it's fair to characterize my posts here and elsewhere as pissing and moaning? Do you really believe that the opinions I've expressed here are rubbish or nonsense (the meaning of tripe)? You may disagree with me, but couldn't you at the very least acknowledge that my opinions are based on many years of study and experience?
You know better than most of the people here what I have suffered at the hands of Armstrongism. You know just how faithful and sincere I have always been. You know what kind of person I am - my character. Is it possible that I could be doing this to help other people who find/have found themselves in similar experiences to my own? Is it possible that I'm not pissing and moaning, and that I do have a life? You know me and my circumstances - what do you think?
Your brother,
Lonnie
Lonnie, You are a great Brother, and I couldn't have asked for a better Brother, but that has nothing to do with our disagreement. I made known to you, how I felt about your constant attack on my Church friends and Family's beliefs. You are most certainly entitled to your opinion, and can speak on that or any other subject freely. Know this, you are doing to us (our Father, my Son and his family, and me, Whendy, and my Church Family) what you say "Armstrongism" did to you. You were not too concerned about my opinion on the subject, and showed no concern for our Father's feelings on the matter either. I love you Lonnie, and know you better than anyone else on earth. Although I don't have your Educational degree, I too am well versed in political science, and current events, and know how to dig and find the facts behind the cover stories!. I would like to suggest, The Epoch Times, The Blaze, and Judicial Watch, to your current event research. As for your feelings about "Armstrongism", I know you have a deep seeded resentment for Herbert Armstrong, I'm just asking you to put that chapter of your life in the rear view mirror, and stop letting your feelings about your past experiences, ruin the relationship with your Family. When you attack The teachings and Doctrines that I hold dear above all else, it hurts me. These are the things that I hold sacred, and am very hard trying to live by. In conclusion, I will always treat you with respect, I do not make comments about opinions that you hold dear. Your Loving Brother, Steven
Steven,
If my commentary here causes you and your family pain, you may not want to visit this site anymore. As you know, I have NEVER threatened to withdraw from you or disfellowship you (though I have been shunned by folks within the Worldwide Church, CGI and have been threatened with the termination of my relationship with family members). I love all of you very much, but I will not allow my voice to be silenced. I kept my mouth shut and suffered in silence for years, but I will NEVER do that again - not for love or money!
The truth is that my experiences within Armstrongism are unfortunately NOT unique. Over the many years since Herbert Armstrong began proclaiming his "truth," a whole lot of folks have been hurt and abused, a whole lot of money has been surrendered to those organizations, and God's TRUTH, history and science have been perverted and twisted into some very ugly notions. As someone who has experienced Armstrongism from both inside and outside, I feel like I am in a unique position to help others who have suffered some of the same things which I have experienced. I also feel compelled to try to the lift back the curtain and allow a little light to shine on some of that ugliness in the hope that I might help others to emerge from that darkness (or prevent them from ever being seduced by it).
I'm also sorry that you can't see/understand that this is what me moving forward looks like! This is me dealing with that dark chapter in my life. This is me trying to make sense of what happened and turn those lemons into lemonade - to light a candle instead of cursing the darkness.
Finally, the TRUTH is NOT a fragile thing. The TRUTH will always prevail. Many people have tried to suppress it or cover it up, but it is impossible to completely erase God's truth. Hence, if Armstrongism is TRUTH, you have absolutely NOTHING to worry about with regard to anything I write or say.
Lonnie
I listened to Tony's sermon last night. An excellent message!
Your response is what I expected. For someone that wants nothing to do with the CGI, you sure do spend a lot of time watching their sermons! I’m sorry that you feel like you must be the protector of humanity, against the evils of the CGI. You are right about one thing, I don’t ever have to visit this blog site again. Not much to see here anyway! Remember this, “professing to be wise, they became fool’s “. Steven
At least I have the sack to sign my name, when I make a comment
To be "fair and balanced" (to borrow a phrase), there are a lot of folks in CGI (including some of the folks in leadership positions) who do not share Tony Buchert's views on this topic. Indeed, there are more than a few folks who cheerfully wear their masks, practice social distancing, have received their vaccinations and continue to happily worship and try their best to obey God. They are not fearful or faithless, and they exhibit care, compassion and empathy for the folks within their midst and those on the outside of their circle.
I should also say that I too love Paul's letter to the saints at Rome, and think often about what he wrote to them so long ago now. Moreover, I too like the passage that my brother referenced in his remarks here (when it is quoted in its full context). After explaining to the Romans that even folks on the outside of the Church knew about God because of their experiences of His creation, he wrote: "So they have no excuse for not knowing God. Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles." (Romans 1:20-23) A little later, Paul continued: "They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen." (verse 25) Unfortunately, folks are still doing this with the Bible (a created thing) and the beliefs which they hold dear. These things become paramount, and anything which contradicts them is reflexively rejected (without thought or consideration), and darkness takes up residence.
Finally, as for Herbert W Armstrong, yes, I do have a problem with someone who claims to be God's servant and representative abusing his own family and growing wealthy off of the hard work and devotion of others. However, that is not my primary beef with him or any of the other immoral/amoral people who surrounded him (and that's not meant to suggest that everyone who surrounded him was immoral/amoral), my primary problem with Herbie and company are their TEACHINGS! You may have noticed that my posts and comments about these preachers call out their TEACHINGS - the personal stuff is between them and their Creator.
Obviously you WERE reading it!! GET A LIFE!!
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