Below is a question that was proposed on the Facebook WCG Survivors page. He asks a valid question that more and more Christians are also looking into.
Hello,
as a person who has committed his mind to being governed by reason, I
have a few objective observations about Christianity, and would like to
pose questions for the consideration of Christians who also seek
rational thought. These questions are NOT meant to offend or bring
vitriol, only to spark rational, respectful discussion.
My
first question: Why is it NECESSARY for an ALL-POWERFUL god to take
human life in RETRIBUTION for sin? Why could that god not simply forgive
sin IN THE FIRST PLACE, WITHOUT demanding human sacrifice (OR a
substitute for it)?
The interesting thread is here:
Reasonable Questions for Your Consideration
8 comments:
I have wondered the same thing.
Yet we are expected to forgive one another and with no mention of a sacrifice.
Then if our sins have been paid for through sacrifice or retribution then how does forgiveness operate?
Reality said..."Yet we are expected to forgive one another and with no mention of a sacrifice."
The Messiah's Offering paid for all sin (Heb. 10). Therefore,
1. We forgive others in order to have our own sins forgiven.
2. Because the Messiah has already paid for all sin, far be it from a believer to hold sin against anyone else. Anything less is ingratitude and hypocrisy.
"...how does forgiveness operate?"
REPENT of sin and determine to follow the One who paid our debt and we have forgiveness, reconciliation, and freedom from the penalty of sin.
Its the best deal going....
"Without the shedding of BLOOD, there is NO forgiveness of sin"
Why not? Why can't the all everything God, cut the blood out of the equation and simply say, "I forgive you."
And how was Jesus sacrifice such a big deal when it was only a weekend inconvenience as we see. He died like millions before him and not as badly as some have had to endure. He knows he's not really forever dead and will be back. God knows he's coming back in a couple days better than ever.
Isn't a sacrifice supposed to stay dead? I have wondered about this for years. Every "Type" of sacrifice that supposedly pointed to Jesus is still dead.
In what way was Jesus death the most amazing sacrifice ever? And he wasn't beaten and tortured more than any man. He actually died rather quickly, six hours, for how crucifixtion is supposed to work. Most were left to rot off the cross, be eaten by birds and dogs as a warning not to screw with Rome.
Jesus practically gets a state funeral and comes back better than ever. Isn't a sacrfice supposed to stay dead as I simply observe the story and it's meaning today.
Just wondering..always will
The blogger said, "My first question: Why is it NECESSARY for an ALL-POWERFUL god to take human life in RETRIBUTION for sin? Why could that god not simply forgive sin IN THE FIRST PLACE, WITHOUT demanding human sacrifice (OR a substitute for it)?"
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The Creator has NEVER required 'human sacrifice.' It is the ancestors of the blogger and of myself and these readers here who made their children 'pass through the fire' to appease pagan idols. The Creator abhors and punishes those who commit such abominations!
Far from "take human life in RETRIBUTION for sin," the TRUTH is that the Creator ALLOWED HIMSELF to BE MURDERED for OUR SINS. Through the Messiah, we ALL, atheists, agnostics, and believers alike have a chance at redemption.
Anyone who sets himself up (like satan) to challenge the wisdom of the Creator is like JOB, and will likely repent when the right time comes.
"Is it necessary for blood retribution for sin?" I will answer that with a few questions:
Those who are killing thousands of housewives, students and children across the globe, do they deserve death for their indiscriminate murders? Check morgue records for confirmation.
The drug cartels and other 'agents of death' on the planet? Do they deserve death for their sin?
And every person on the planet is capable of that kind hatred and murder if put in the right circumstance.
Man is the only being that kills for NO GOOD REASON.
Death is a natural result of that sin, we did it to ourselves! Why blame the One who gave us being, breathed life into us, and provides all we have?
"Why could that god not simply forgive sin IN THE FIRST PLACE?"
But FORGIVENESS without REPENTANCE has no lasting result!
Because man is like the thief who is caught and sentenced to death. He wants mercy so he can go out and continue his theft and murder. Check prison records for verification on that.
The Creator in His great patience did allow for a substitute (animal) offering of blood to 'COVER' sin until the Messiah could come and permanently, once and for all PAY for ALL OUR sin (Heb. 10) and make a way of reconciliation.
It is obvious from the wording of Genesis 1-2 that the Creator made us in His image, after His own likeness, in order for us to become His own sons.
But we must put away our sin in order to dwell in His presence. The Messiah and His Spirit have made this possible.
"Why could that god not simply forgive sin?"
He does and has many times forgiven us although completely undeserving, but all go right on sinning.
Again, man DOES NOT REPENT for his sin, so there was no real change in the equation....
The only lasting answer to man's problem with sin was the Offering of the Blood of 'the Lamb,' and the subsequent giving of His Spirit.
The Spirit of the Messiah EMPOWERS those who will follow Him through prayer, faith, and otherwise devotion to the Messiah to live a life of pardon, redemption, and REAL peace of mind.
Having His Spirit is the ONLY way to stop the lifestyle and attitude of sin.
Man is the murderer, not the Creator. He who gave us life may take it, because it is His to give and take. HalleluYAH for His great mercy and kindness.
The Creator abhors and punishes those who commit such abominations!
Obviously you have never read Judges 11:30-39. "The Creator" didn't exactly tell papa that his vow was stupid and totally did not intervene or say, "hey butthead! No no no..I abhore that.
Deut 13:13 and following demands the destruction and burning of whole towns of humans, men , women, children, cattle as a burnt offering for their sins.
Wiggle all you want. The real history of the real OT God, derived from El the Canaanite Deity and evolved into a no account god YHVH to the supreme being YHVH was a vengeful, petty, violent and jealous God who without batting a spirit eyelash, destroyed in sacrificial form any who got in his way.
EVENTUALLY, in the text, this God evolved out of that but in the beginning it was not so.
Of course, Offering up your own son in the form of Jesus is a human sacrifice no matter how you define it.
It is from a client whose only teen daughter had committed suicide the phrase, "Jesus sacrifice was merely a weekend inconvenience." The mother went on to say that she now realized this and that if she knew her daughter would be coming back in three days better than ever, she'd be getting a party ready. Alas...she said..."My daughter is still dead" and then to me she asked, "I thought a sacrifice was supposed to STAY dead."
All this reaction bubbled up in her when her pastor told her that she should NOT feel so badly as God lost his only child as well.
Ooooops Mr. Minister. Wrong thing to say in real life...
Theologians wrestle with this question quite a bit. Attempts to figure it out has spawned numerous branches of christianity.
To be honest, I have no idea as to whether Jesus died as a sacrifice, or because he was considered a nuisance by the powers that be.
I take his resurrection on faith.
My own personal view which is immature at best is that Jesus as sacrifice appeals to our human desire for retribution and justice that is transferred away from ourselves.
Today those of us located in the more affluent parts of the world are further removed from the concept of blood sacrifice. But if you bombed us back to the stone age I think our descendents would be likely to revert to these ideas.
@ Dennis re: the insensitive minister, I think too many people do such an apples to oranges comparison in order to protect or excuse themselves from entering into the pain of others. Unfortunately too many people enter the ministry without that ability or fear being overwhelmed by all the pain they encounter. I suspect from what you've told of yourself you were not like this and it is part of made it impossible for you to toe the party line.
I have listened to and considered just about anyone I could (stomach) within reason.
I have come to this conclusion: Anyone ever associated with Armstrongism should be very slow to trust their own judgment in anything. Nothing and no one was exactly as it seemed to be, which set up mental dynamics difficult to ever trust. Too many facts and too many truths were not only ignored, but altered in an effort to make the patently unworkable work.
And because I have explored so many other sources, it seems clear enough to me, that we probably shouldn't trust anyone else's judgment either, no matter how rational they seem.
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