Bob Thiel, the self appointed world renown authority on prophecy, the Mayans, Catholicism and God's truth.has finally come clean with his announcement that he was formed his very own splinter cult of the Church of God. Since Herbert Armstrong started his little group well over 700 groups have broken off over the decades, Each one claiming they were carrying on the true mantle that the previous group was ignoring.
Word has been circulating for months that Thiel was having big issues with Living Church of God despite his slobbering posts on how great the LCG was. Hypocrisy in the Church of God apparently has no boundaries.
Rod Meredith, after spending a week with Thiel haranguing him finally sent Thiel a letter kicking him out of LCG.
...I have been trying to resolve many matters with those in Charlotte and telephoned Dr. Roderick C. Meredith every day this week.Even apostle Malm saw through that statement Malm writes:
Instead of speaking with me, a few hours ago I received a factually incorrect letter from Dr. Roderick C. Meredith. Based upon its tone, numerous inaccurate statements, accusations, and his unwillingness to address the real issues that I wanted to bring up, this letter is 100% proof (to me at least) that my view that the Living Church of God lost the ‘Philadelphia mantle’ in 2011 or 2012. I am saddened by this development and had hoped to avoid having to make a variety of decisions. But, God’s will is to be done (Matthew 6:10; 1 John 2:17).
It appears that Bob Thiel has received a letter from Rod Meredith disfellowshipping him, and Bob never a man to admit coming in second is saying that he left LCG months ago.
The Church of God cannot have two big ego's at it's head. Meredith and Thiel cannot both be true leaders.
About an hour ago, I signed various notarized documents to declare the start of a new organization. It is legally to be called the Continuing Church of God Overseer and successors, a corporation sole. Next week, the corporate documents are to be filed–but legally CCOG now exists as a real church. The late Herbert W. Armstrong formed a corporate sole in the 1970s and this seemed to be the best available option for me in California.The Church of God is a dead church, why would anyone want to "continue" it??? It no longer has anything of value to offer the world. The Church used to have a vision, however misguided it was, that it kept members longing for. Now the members are leaving in droves because there is no vision. There is no worthwhile message, no unity, no hope and no brotherly love. Greed, avarice and vanity are the catchwords of the day now when describing the Church of God.
So what is that special new message that Thiel is proclaiming?
The Church will commonly likely be known as the Continuing Church of God, probably abbreviated as the CCOG.
We expect to best represent the true remnant of the Philadelphia era of the original Church of God that began on Pentecost in Acts 2 (c. 31 A.D.)
Oh give it a rest Bob! We have heard that same phrase used by each of the 700 some splinter personality cults over the last several decades. Every single one has proven to be liars and frauds. All this move does is provide another money stream for Thiel.
Our mailing address is Continuing Church of God, 1248 E. Grand #A, Arroyo Grande, CA 93420. And yes, in the USA, donations postmarked by 12/31/2012 are immediately tax deductible. For those who in live in the State of California, we signed a declaration to apply for the determination letter from California, which, for those in California is legal assurance of the deductibility of donations in California (they are now 100% deductible in all the other US states).
Can people really be stupid enough to join up with him? Apparently so! He claims:
It is important for all to realize that despite flaws of Christians, including those of us of the Philadelphia remnant, that love is what God’s way of life and His kingdom are really all about. And that spreading that message of love and all of God’s ways is what the Continuing Church of God wants to be about.
This message was subject the first service of the Continuing Church of God which was held earlier today.
If they are dumb enough to follow Malm, you can be guaranteed that some will follow Thiel.
40 comments:
Read Bob Thiel's 12/28/12 post on Bob Thiel at http://www.cogwriter.com/gnews.htm
Count the number of times the name Bob Thiel appears.
Count the number of times the name Bob Thiel appears.
Number of times appearing:
Bob Thiel: 106
Meredith: 39
prophet/prophets/prophetic: 39
Catholic: 6
Byzantine: 4
Protestant: 2
Jesus: 2
Christ: 1
Well, I guess that pretty well indicates who the central focus of the Continuing Church of God will be!
But remember, Bob, you got a lot of competition out there, as everyone and his brother seems to be feeling the prophetic calling from God these days in COG land!
Continuing Church of God? What a joke! I guess with 700+ splinter groups from the Worldwide Church of God, Thiel's scraping the bottom of the barrel for corporate names. The best names are already taken.
Richard
We look forward to Count Carl zu Guttenberg to join Thiel in his mission to create a Scriptural anomaly:
Together, they can be the two witnesses AND the Count is also the Beast of Revelation!
This promises to be epic proportions of Biblical!
And let's not forget that Dr. Bob is also an anointed Prophet!
So if you too can afford an online PhD from an unaccredited University in India, write a book on prophecy like, say, "2013: The Fall of the Secret Sect" and have the audacity to claim to be of great swelling importance, you to could ride on the coattails of Dr. Bob and join his ccog!
Can you picture yourself next to the two witnesses, the Prophet and the Beast of Revelation?
Then join up today, before you miss a single Sabbath and Feast Day!
those of us of the Philadelphia remnant.
Hey, uh, Dr. Bob? Just because HWA plagiarized the theory that the 7 churches in the Apocalypse of John were symbols of church eras doesn't mean that they really were.
In fact, the Apocalypse was about things "which must shortly come to pass" (Rev. 1:1) because the time was "at hand" (1:3) about 1900 years ago.
Of course, those things weren't "at hand" and they did not "shortly come to pass". That is, Jesus did not "shortly" return and destroy the Roman empire and set up a kingdom as prophesied in that book. It was a failed prophecy. That should have been the end of it...but it wasn't because people tend to believe what they want to and have made up all kinds of excuses why Jesus didn't return as promised.
How about "The Never Ending Church of God"? Better hurry. Names going fast.
What kind of a misperception of the self does one have to come to when one thinks they are a prophet in this day and age of failed prophecies and a better understanding of the theology and intent of scripture?
As Corky noted, what does it take to understand what "soon" "shortly" "the last hour" "time is short" etc meant in the original text 2000 years ago.
Hard to admit that Jesus, Paul and all the Apostles were wrong isn't it?
M.T.Shortly
What part of "soon" "Shortly" "draws nigh" "the last hour" "must shortly come to pass," "standing at the door" "about to come," about to be revealed", "is coming and will not delay", "now is", 2000 years ago, does Bob not understand?
A good read of Christianty's Greatest Dilemma-Is Jesus Coming or Is He Not by Glenn Hill should wrap it up nicely for Fundamentalists who insist the Bible actually does not mean what it once said.
Thiel is pissing in the wind,IMHO. He will be competing for a shrinking market share of the dying legacy of the Armstrong Churches of God (ACOG). With 700 slpinter groups all competing with one another, and with people who remember the glory golden years of HWA and the WCG from the 1960s quckly dying off, the fututre of the ACOGs are dim.
They can decieve themselves into believing they are accomplishing a "Work of God", but The Plain Truth (pun intended) is that they are pissing in the wind accomplishing nothing other than providing the Pastor General an income stream.
At least for the next 10 to 20 years, there will be at least 10 to 50 dumb sheep tithe slaves in each group to keep the income stream going for their masters.
The Armstrong plantation will continue to shrink and get smaller and smaller.
One word of advice to the dumb sheep tithe slaves - you will always be dumb sheep so I can't convince you otherwise, but I wouldn't trust Thiel's clam of tax exemption on face value. I'd verify it if I were you. Oh, that's right. You are dumb sheep, so you won't. But, if Thiel doesn't have the tax exemption filed and approved, any tax deductions you take may be found to be disregarded by the IRS and you will owe the taxes plus interest and penalties. Oh, but don't ask me. You can talk to Ron Weinland about US Taxes. He's now an expert at it!
Richard
Once those folk realize Paul, Peter, James and John weren't talking to US they were talking to them, the lights can come on. When you read those books as if they were just sent to you yesterday in the mail, it messes your understanding up big time.
They aren't dual. They are now ancient documents, meant for those folks at that time and frankly, it didn't work out for them either which is why 2 Peter was added to blame those who could see it wasn't and call them scoffers.
The scoffers of those days were right. The ministry of those days were dead wrong (no pun intended) They were alive wrong too
I love how the self absorbed like Bob is spend years defending their faith, leadership, church and bash the others with "why not.." this or that COG only until they can't get the respect they think they deserve. No just being a member or humble Christian. These fools have to be prophets, priests and kings or pout themselves out of the organization when they "notice" the church slipping below their standards.
No wonder many who loved church now hate it. Is it any wonder that when a minister stands up to tell any crowd how it all is, many simply think, "uh huh..sure, whatever you say...can we go to lunch?"
These guys are Theonarcissists and Self Absorbed Loons that will drive the sincere back to churches where they can simply left alone with their own thoughts on all things Bible and it will be ok.
I would encourage no one to filter the world through the eyes of Bob Thiel or any other. Many who filtered their days through the eyes of the Apostle Paul lived to regret it. Same with many who filtered their world through the eyes of John or the loon who wrote Revelation. The Seven Church of Revelation came and went and did not get any reward for their seeing the world through the eyes of that author.
Wake up COG lurkers. See the world through your own eyes and you'll live longer and be happier. I give you permission to NOT fear not listening to God's not really all that chosen. Now give yourself permission and find your own peace of mind which is not really available with these guys.
M.T. UrCranium
amen.
These fools have to be prophets, priests and kings
gods -- they think they are gods.
It isn't headquarters, it's Mount Olympus.
of all things...i'm wondering why I have slipped into angry mode at all things WCG again? I think this Thiel crap pushed a button I hadn't addressed yet. I am angry enough at myself for a number of things and this seems to have reignited my issues with these fools who back up when it doesn't shine the light on them enough and then turn around and give you an address for donations. I do not wish Bob well on this latest COG fiasco and ego trip. Edit out all your LCG kiss ass quickly Bob before we start quoting you from the past. The fact you claim to have broken away last July but failed to mention that until now is telling
Dennis (Ipad won't let me out of anonymous and this is not anonymous)
I have often seen posted that the COG today is "700 competing groups". I
consider such statements as nonsense.
Counting anyone out there with an internet blog, perhaps you can make such a
statement.
However, the reality is that 87% of the sabbath keeping remnant from the WCG
resides in just 7 groups, and that 75% of the historic remnant resides in just
FOUR groups.
Here is the breakdown...
UCG 12k
LCG 8k
PCG 5k
COGWA 4k
CGI 2k
HULME 2k
PACK 1k
The combined total of the 693 groups is approximately 5000 people. This is an
average of just 7 people per group. If we eliminate the solo operators, (web
based loners, or home groups with less than 10 people) you have perhaps 25
other groups with less than 150 people in each.
I would not call this "competing groups" or much competition at all. Nearly ALL
of these smaller groups will be nonexistent in the next 20 years IMHO.
Much like the trucking industry, where there are literally hundreds of thousands
of independent trucking owner/operators, 90% of the freight volume of this
country is handled by just 25 companies. Of those 25 , the top 5 control 70% of
that volume.
Internet search engines are similar to that as well, with the top 3 search
engines controlling 95% of the market, but with over 30 search engines in
business.
It is the nature of things. In most industries, and we can include our COG
universe in that as well, the top 3 to 5 companies usually dominate the
landscape.
Hey! We can all be prophets. For just 200 shekels (about $53) we can get a diploma that is just as valuable as Bob's PhD diploma.
At Israel school, anyone can learn to be a prophet
But be warned, being a prophet doesn't pay very well. One can only hope that it won't pay very well for Bob either.
"God's will be done."
Ha, ha, ha.
Probably not the John 6:40 version of God's will. Just guessing, though.
Prophet. One of the two witnesses. Double-portion of the Holy Spirit.
"O, that way madness lies; let me shun that."
Oh, I don't know.
I once attended an ACoG with 6 people in it. That's it. Six.
And it was competitive.
I'm pretty sure we have 700+ splits with leaders.
Whether or not they are viable competition or not is up to question.
But, you know, there are all those truckers out there.
And hey, even my cat started his own cult.
So there.
Some comments that I feel are pertinent:
In his letter on 12/29/12 Thiel charged that the LCG literature was
“ ...relying on Protestant commentaries above scripture in some cases “
And somehow,in his mind, it is OK for Theil to have:
“acquired a difficult to attain book that he did not know existed previously (not available in regular bookstores or Amazon) on Byzantine (Greek Orthodox) Catholic prophecy. While he had been aware that certain old Roman Catholic prophecies seemed to possibly point to him personally, one or more ancient Byzantine ones, combined with certain biblical ones, seemed to be too specific to ignore. “
Therefore, it is somehow NOT ok for the LCG to rely on “Protestant” commentaries, however for Thiel to apply “Catholic” prophecies to himself – ancient Byzantine ones is ok?
Also, he claims to “privately suspend his membership in LCG” but attended:
“the LCG Feast of Tabernacles site in Lihue, Kauai today to attend begin church services this evening.”
Sounds like a little more then simply cooperating since his membership was “suspended” in my opinion.
Though Thiel suspended himself back in July, he had no problems posting pictures of himself with prominent LCG leaders such as Doug and Rod – which in hindsight, has actually deceived people in the greater public, not those in the know, that there was still a unity between himself and united, which there was not.
This is not even addressing the problems with other items in hindsight, nor is it addressing the alleged problems with his “doctorate” that have been outlined in great detail on the False Prophet Ronald Weinland site by someone with a real, and earned doctorate who brought these things greatly to light.
Therefore, it seems to me, that there is at least a little to a great deal of hypocrisy, deceit, suppositions of importance, suppositions of ordination that were not there based on his clarifications of his anointing, illusions of grandeur typical of wcg members with gigantic egos, at least a little stretching of the truth (in my humblest opinion) and certainly judgement of a church organization by a lay member who in my opinion, has gone over the edge with his ego driven suppositions of self-importance. There is a lot more to say that is beyond this comment box. Perhaps some other time.
On a personal note, I am with Dennis that this is not only saddening, this is disgusting. These are the true fruits of what the WCG members have really wanted – importance and power with the illusions of self grandeur – and what I see are the fruits of deceit and hypocrisy.
"Bob Thiel Starts New Splinter Personailty Cult"
Well, they do all seem to have SPLITTING personalities.
I'm now wondering just exactly how many ACoGs there are in existence today? Does anyone know for sure?
Does anyone care?
By the way, do the words "prophet" and "profit" share any linguistic roots?
I care because Bob potentially has a following outside of the COG's that could be enticed into his form of Armstrongism based on his supposed "expert knowledge" of world events and his staunch opinion that his understanding of the early church and church history based on his "expert" studies are "correct". He bases his proofs on supposed "alignments" of prophetic views to the overall current worldview. There are enough people out there who would be ill adequate to properly refute his claims of expertise - which, of course, are all hinged on his misunderstandings and poor exegesis of material based on his trust of AC "scholars" and subsequent "worldviews" he is convinced are accurate. There is potential he could start a pretty potent COG. But one thing's for sure. He's no Armstrong, He never will be an Armstrong, and any "work" he develops will likely be split in very short order as those he attracts will be those who agree with him, and most likely, emotionally and philosophically, as well as intellectually, in his genre of Armstrongism. Any "work" would not last for long. He has more then enough material online to completely disprove his "understandings" if one wanted to take the time to do so, and his obvious "thielogical" "shortcomings" are, in my opinion, more then enough to theologically decimate by one who is a true scholar, should one choose to take the time to do so (though I wouldn't give it a thought to do so, as I would consider it time wasted.) The concern is not for the "doctor". The concern is for those who intend to join up with yet another one of these types who thinks God has given him a calling to do something big on behalf of the COG movement.
What has happened with all the other COGs there will be no exception. I simply do not wish to see any other lives messed with to the point of all the others who have given up their lives for depressive deception.
In all seriousness, I don't see an impact with this "movement" but there is some potential, and that's why we should care, in my opinion.
Mike from RW blog, care to write on another one of these prophet types? ;)
AC0Gs? 4,592,921 at last count :)
4,592,921? :D Considering Armstrongism's peak was, at MAXIMUM 141,000 or so, (which itself was probably a highly inflated number) you must be counting all of the alternate dimensions ACOG's too! ;)
Earlier I said:
"What has happened with all the other COGs there will be no exception. I simply do not wish to see any other lives messed with to the point of all the others who have given up their lives for depressive deception"
Though I do not wish to watch others give their minds to this sort of crap, sadly I think that is going to be the case. Bob's not the type to listen to anyone but himself and his own reasoning I think. May be high time to tune out the COG drama for a while and get involved in something lots more worthwhile. Bob is responsible for his actions, and how his actions influence others... and I'm responsible for my own self, and this depresses me. Watching the COG stuff is depressing, and happier times don't happen watching this stuff.
Surprised it hadnt happened before now. Thiel's constant public licking of his own hindquarters was getting monotonous. No surprise that he had the highly original idea (much sarcasm) of forming yet another COG splinter.
Anon said: I have often seen posted that the COG today is "700 competing groups". I consider such statements as nonsense.
This may be nonsense, but a lot of what is posted here is nonsense. Realistically Bob Thiel probably had people who supported his forming a church and it may be that some of them were ranking people in other COG groups. Forming a corporation takes time, money, and other people. It is a strong probability that his double blessing of the Holy Spirit was an ordination of some type. His use of “the importance of love” is a strong incentive for those who see the lack of love in authoritarian groups. I assume he attended a LCG congregation in California.
The true prophets in the Bible got their messages directly from God. God said, "When a prophet of the LORD is among you, I reveal myself to him in visions, I speak to him in dreams" (Numbers 12:6, NIV).
You will notice that these modern, self-appointed, false prophets have a completely different source of information.
Bob Thiel studies Mayan prophecies, Kenyan prophecies, Catholic prophecies, etc. to try to figure out the future. This will not work out well at all. When--not if--this fails, maybe he can go one small step further and just go ask Madam Zelda with her crystal ball.
Gerald Flurry even made himself out to be "That Prophet" yet had to subscribe to Stratfor to try to figure out the future. This will not work out well either. Of course, maybe Gerald did not appoint himself. Maybe Satan sent him.
Everybody wants to come up with a prophetic theory and hopes to guess right so that it looks like God is with him, even though He is not.
I need to correct one of my earlier posts. I had written under a different thread that Bob Thiel claims to have earned a PhD in Philosophy from "the Hebrew Institute and University". I was wrong. He writes in his "Who Is Cogwriter?" article that his PhD is from "the Union Institute and University". That entity does exist and is accredited, although it seems to be primarily an online operation. I also said incorrectly that Gavin R. at the Otagosh Blog had looked into Bob's academic claims and had drawn a possible conclusion that Bob's PhD was from an online diploma mill in India. Gavin's efforts were directed toward determining the source of a ThD degree that Bob briefly claimed on his website. Dr. Bob seems to have stopped claiming that one.
I apologize for putting forth incorrect information. I can only say I was reading Bob's site while watching a football game and made a mistake.
Glenn Parker
Glenn Parket
Earlier I said above that...
"This is not even addressing the problems with other items in hindsight, nor is it addressing the alleged problems with his “doctorate” that have been outlined in great detail on the False Prophet Ronald Weinland site by someone with a real, and earned doctorate who brought these things greatly to light."
Since the problems were alleged, and Glenn has put forth new information that states
"I need to correct one of my earlier posts. I had written under a different thread that Bob Thiel claims to have earned a PhD in Philosophy from "the Hebrew Institute and University". I was wrong. He writes in his "Who Is Cogwriter?" article that his PhD is from "the Union Institute and University". That entity does exist and is accredited, although it seems to be primarily an online operation. I also said incorrectly that Gavin R. at the Otagosh Blog had looked into Bob's academic claims and had drawn a possible conclusion that Bob's PhD was from an online diploma mill in India. Gavin's efforts were directed toward determining the source of a ThD degree that Bob briefly claimed on his website. Dr. Bob seems to have stopped claiming that one."
I will retract that portion of the alleged problems as mentioned on another site as to pertaining to the degree as a question. However, that doesn't of course retract my other opinions and concerns.... and in lighter news....
Was a good episode of Hee Haw tonight, nice distraction :D
Curse Bob Thiel and his wicked attempt to get money from deceived people.
How dare Bob Thiel thinks he is important enough to start his own cult. He has no right. He's just a lay (ex-)member of LCG.
No2HWA is absolutely right to be it a personality cult.
From the false Prophet Bob Thiel:
>>Some have wondered about tithing and what the Continuing Church of God plans to do with any donations. First, let me state that unless anyone is hired (and no one, not me, is on the payroll), all monies received will be used for gospel proclamation, feeding the flock (which may include travel to various regions), and necessary administration expenses (which should be fairly low).
As far as gospel proclamation, I will make a prediction right here and right now. The Continuing Church of God will reach more people in its first 30 days of existence with the COG message than any COG that came out of the old Worldwide Church of God or old Global Church of God did in their first 30 days. This will be accomplished with various internet websites, radio interviews, and personal contact. I expect to report the results in case any want to see proof by the end of next month.<<
What madness! This will fail miserably.
Look at the delusion of this man. He thinks he can produce a greater work than organizations with hundreds and members and numerous so-called ministers. Does he actually believe his own propaganda?
What a fool.
Somewhere in the flurry of weekend posts, it was stated that Meredith gave Thiel the go-ahead for cogwriter. But Bob said it was his regional pastor at the time, which was probably Jeff Fall.
With the number of times "Bob Thiel" was mentioned, I am reminded of Charles Bryce. In the first year of his co-worker letters, he quoted Herbert Armstrong more than he quoted the Bible, and by a significant margin. That showed me where his ministry was focused and convinced me not to follow him.
As the first two posts pointed out Bob Thiel's focus seems to be on himself.
No2HWA made a similar observation in this post:
http://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2012/01/thiel-its-all-about-me-and-baron.html
>>Now to show how annoying his article is, I have copied portions of his sentences so you can see the narcissistic bent he is on. It's all about him. He knows all and has LCG backing him up. He throws in LCG a couple of times because many of his detractors are complaining to LCG about him.<<
No2HWA lists about 43 instances of Thiel saying I, my, or variant of such. Then says...
>>It is quit apparent that Spanky Meredith's narcissistic personality has rubbed of on the Doctor of Prophecy. <<
How terribly true.
Funny, that doodlebug named Bob Thiel.
A shame that he knows so little about the Bible.
After my dad got thrown out of WCG he went to the local market place and walked around with a sign saying "ALL will be saved" and quoting some scripture that said that. We all thought he had dementia. But you know what a few people started sending him donations.
Earlier I stated that Meredith asked Thiel to start cogwriter. I misread that and I apologize for that. I did go back to Thiel's statement on cogwriter on 12/28 which stated the following:
In 1998, Dr. Roderick C. Meredith and others with LCG encouraged Bob Thiel to expand and continue COGwriter, etc. It later became the most popular member website of any associated with the COGs and has long functioned as an evangelistic tool. COGwriter, directly, as well as indirectly, has helped bring many to the COG in general and LCG specifically.
Debra
This is just my opinion, but it occurs to me that probably the best way to prove that you don't have the Holy Spirit is to start a splinter group, and then insert your ego into all of the promo materials, even as you trash your former alma mater. But, this is another example of some behavior which they will not correct, because it's precisely what HWA did! They believe he was their apostle, therefore they believe it is right and correct to follow his example.
BB
If you look up "partial preterism" and the judgment against first-century Jerusalem, the "end-times" prophecies may make a lot more sense. The key to understanding apocalyptic prophecies seems to be recalling the symbols established in the Old Testament. I just thought I should mention this for the sake of the discussion.
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