This video is just another in a pathetic stream of really BAD production quality "sermons.". You get to hear the demons wheezing, gurgling, moaning and speaking in tongues throughout the video as the prophet bumbles, mumbles and stumbles trying to get his message across. If this is what a REAL Christian sounds like, then I am NOT interested!
The more videos he makes like this the more idiotic he is looking. Where's the "Ambassador Quality" that the church has always been known for? He comes across looking like a bigger buffoon than Raymond "Buffy" McNair ever was!
The funnest part is at 3:14-3:20 when the speaking in tongues happens.
58 comments:
WTF?????? What are those sounds!
You can't have a personality cult if the person you are following has no personality
ROTFLMAO !!!!!!!!'
I had a recent discussion with Bob myself. He told me that it was those with "Jewish" practices that were the only truly faithful Christians from the beginning and to the present. That's it then. To become a true Christian you have to become a Jew. Has anyone heard such nonsense before?
Yep. Paul heard it from the Judaizers. He treated that subject very eloquently throughout his epistles.
Thiel's kids got their hands on a "Whoopie Cushion", that's all.
WHAT THE HECK???
If I were to take a guess on the sound, it would be a parrot or bird of some kind. Cant Thiel put the bird in a back room or something?
It does look though that Bob does have the camera straight (finally).
I wish Mystery Science Theater 3000 was still on, as Im sure they could have a field day with Thiel's videos.
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
Bob has lost it. He's now the leader of yet another synagogue of Satan by pretending to be a Jew when in fact he is not, and for trying to convert Christians and keep non-believers away from Christ and instead make them follow Satan's lies.
Anon, I think you are a member of a synagogue of Satan who infiltrated them at the behest of another synagogue of Satan in order to water down the real synagogue of Satan, which is actually transforming itself as the synagogue of Satan to hide the other synagogues of Satan. And that's the truth because I said it!
Anon @ March 27, 2013 at 6:18 PM, it appears you are Satan himself who is leading all of the COGs to the lake of fire. Please don't let me stop you! In fact I encourage you to do as much as you can.
Real Christians do not tithe. Tithing was only ever done with produce, not wages or money. Donating to a church is a totally different story and is OK. Paul ate with Gentiles so again Bob has it wrong about the dietary rules. In fact Jews can eat unclean meat as long as they abstain from going home before sunset. They are not killed. I was told this by an Orthodox Jew. Furthermore, if it's a life or death issue, Jews have no problem eating unclean meat to avoid starvation. I could go on and on about Bob's false teachings even with regards to Jewish Orthodoxy. He is such a misguided fool. The worst though is his blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as he rejects him and instead teaches the Holy Spirit is just a force. Bob is no more a Christian than an Orthodox Jew, if not worse.
The Prophet has a mentally-retarded son who makes these kinds of random noises. I'm sure that's what we're hearing. Time to back off guys, at least on this issue.
Perhaps his son is intelligent so he is reacting appropriately towards Bob's heresies.
uh huh. too easy an excuse.
NO2RCM said...
The Prophet has a mentally-retarded son who makes these kinds of random noises. I'm sure that's what we're hearing. Time to back off guys, at least on this issue.
Ah...this I can understand, though it would still behove Dr. T to not let that be part of the background. I took my blind, deaf and non speaking but noise making brother to lunch when home for mom's funeral and realized how well mom had taught him to be quiet in public. He sits down and then holds his own finger to his lips to show he knows to be quiet in public. He can really let go with sounds if he wanted or needed to but would be somewhat disturbing in public.
It may also and frankly explain Bob's desire for what he believes to be so. It's tough having a handicapped child on many levels.
Also...it would be amazingly nice if Bob and all COG ministry could get over the idea that a two hour sermon is all that helpful. It simply shows lack of concise presentation, lack of preparation and lack of common sense on just how long humans can care even if they do care about such topics.
Several posts on this blog, mocking the "random noises" (even attributing them to demons), and finally, someone comes out and indicates they may be beyond Thiel's control? Really, No2RCM? Really?
So, were you just letting Gary and the others dig themselves in the further, or just enjoying watching them mock Thiel, even though you knew the truth all along,?
If (big if) Thiel is reading these entries, does anyone here think it is outside the realm of possibility that he has stepped up his rhetoric in the way that he has, BECAUSE of these posts?
I don't imagine Thiel is too impressed with you guys (wittingly or otherwise) suggesting his kid is demon-possessed), but his own delusions make him re-interpret these comments as "persecution."
Which, y'know, technically, he's not that far off the mark, if he thinks somewhere deep down that it's intentional.
Just some thoughts. Time to move on, I think, Gary.
Velvet, no offense, but relax. You don't to fix this site. If Bob does have a handicapped, prone to noises child in the audience, he is being rather naive and unprofessional in his presentation. No one here mocks the handicapped unless they clearly express it through mind numbing ignorance on all things religious and Bible or personal callings that are silly.
No one here is going to make fun of the handicapped either, well unless they are mentally handicapped and claim titles and powers beyond mere mortals. They may get a bit of a blowback.
Still, you must admit, that there is the great danger that if you are fully immersed in Armstrongism, it could lead to insanity.
As having a severely mentally ill son myself, my assessment of Robert Thiel is that he should abandon all attempts to spread any sort of "gospel" message to others and focus on the needs of his family.
I would also add that the Cult of Herbert Armstrong is no help to the mentally ill -- there should be no great surprise in that. Oh sure, there were articles in The Good News such as those about how to treat homosexuals with kindness and understanding, but not much to help the families with mentally ill people. One mentally ill minister did write an article about dealing with mental illness, but it was one where it supported the dangerous idea of just having a positive attitude, instead of getting treatment: An attitude that can lead to death.
No, Armstrongists are on the whole merciless with those who are mentally ill and their families, often creating the problems (or at least severely aggravating them) and then abusing the families of the mentally ill and treating them with contempt, abandoning them as pariahs in their little pre Kingdom of God society.
What I see in Armstrongism is nothing more than stupid aggressive arrogance.
Douglas, that has to be very difficult and thanks for sharing that. So often we don't know the story behind the story. My brother's handicaps and mental shortcomings has been very influential in my life. He was the first human being I anointed after being ordained and I did it quietly with just him and me. I don't know what I expected but after I did it, he just looked at me like, "well are you happy now" lol. Oh well!
PS
The church nor ministry ever really understood, nor tried from my recollections, the mentally ill or even physically handicapped. It was all going to be made right in the wonderful world tomorrow. I grew up in the halls of the state mental intitution at Newark, NY from age five to 18 and had overload on this topic. I know why "the deaf will hear, the blind will see and the lame will leap like a hart," got to me and propelled me into that kind of ministry.
I think I felt more comfortable amongst the mentally ill and handicapped than I did with WCG ministers....lol (well, same thing at times!)
Velvet,
AFAIK, no one suggested that any of Prophet Bob's children are demon-possessed. And if they did, I missed it.
However, I did NOT miss you suggesting that Byker Bob (and other people who post here) are demon-possessed.
I don't subscribe to the same theological leanings that Byker Bob does, but I'd hardly call him "demon possessed"
-Norm
Perhaps if you folks actually would LISTEN to one another (carefully read comments) rather than be so quick on the draw to hurl accusations back and forth at each other you might find the misunderstandings will diminish. After hearing just a few seconds of Bob's video I suspected that a severely mentally-handicapped child was in the room making those noises. Though I agree that it does raise questions as to Bob's professionalism to be so careless with his video recordings.
It is easy to be shallow and not understand the circumstances that make each of us what we are today. A little kindness goes a long way but also, most don't share the details of their lives or where they are coming from and why. I suppose it can be too personal.
Douglas, I'd love to talk in real time on the phone, so if you want, email me your number at my email, denniscdiehl@aol.com
Norm, you mentioned that "I don't subscribe to the same theological leanings that Byker Bob does, but I'd hardly call him "demon possessed."
I think that's just a habit that Velvet picked up from the WCG. It was frequently practiced among the membership and ministry. Time for a quick lesson in WCG-speak: when someone expresses an opinion that is either out of sync with the herd's religion, or disagrees with a particular member of the herd, then the offender is often proclaimed to be "demon-possessed." Case closed. End of subject. No further need to use the mind to try to understand where the said offender is coming from, or what they actually meant to say - just a simple dogmatic declaration is uttered, and the problem is solved. Then we wonder why the COG's are the ineffective, fighting, half-way houses of mental illness we see today.
I know, Velvet, I know: this was never your experience up in the perfect congregation you attended in Canada, and that you always treat with perfect respect those who disagree with your rather bizarre theological views. Though the fact remains that not all see either you or the COG's in the perfect light as you see such things.
People respond to the countless tragedies and disappointments inherent to the human life experience in different ways, that's true. But I suspect if we could know of the various traumas individual folks have faced or are currently facing in life, yet keep hidden for various reasons, we'd find it within ourselves to be far more compassionate than we usually are.
Here's a very good article I saw this morning relating to this very issue:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/27/living/parenting-emily-rapp/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
Back, over a decade ago, thinking to help people in the churches of God, I published A Ministerial Guide to Mental Disorders, hoping that some could benefit from my experience, knowledge and research on the topic.
If you don't know the reception it got, you can guess.
Thousands of years of human beings subjecting other human beings to beating, burning, breaking, rending, mutilation, and the like and someone wants to call some perceived name-calling "persecution"?
Please.
I agree with you, Anon 2:28. But remember, we are dealing with a generation here who thinks a major trial in life is misplacing their new smartphone for more than 30 minutes, or not being able to watch the latest episode of "Dancing With The Stars!" So I guess a lot of this is relative to the degree of wimpiness in the persecuted.
Douglas, I went through your Guide for Mental Disorders. It's an excellent summary.
But two obvious things:
1) Were you ordained? Because if you weren't then it doesn't matter what level of professional expertise you have, ministers tend only to seriously take advice from other ministers. I've seen this happen many, many times, to the detriment of the church as a whole.
2) It's just much easier to trot out the standard "Just pray about it" bromides typically dispensed in counseling sessions as opposed to actually trying to understand the real-world dynamics of such disorders. Obviously the COG's are rampant with them. I personally know a close friend who was a bud from AC days. He was a full-time WCG pastor and the birth of his second child triggered an acute case of Borderline Personality Disorder in his wife, whom he later found out had a family line rife with mental illness. It was an absolute nightmare, and they ended up divorcing. He would be the first to say that the COG's are terribly inept when it comes to effectively dealing with these kinds of disorders, or encouraging sufferers to seek professional help outside of their particular fellowship.
The best I can guess is that he videotapes himself lecturing his immediate family and whoever else he can convince to come over. That's assuming this talk about his son is actually true. Could be a bird, cranky water pipes, anything.
RSK, it's definitely a severely mentally handicapped child - whether the child is Bob's or not. I've been around them before, and that's exactly how many of them sound. That was the very first thing I thought of when I initially heard Bob's first video he made with such an "audience."
Thiel teaches that the two witnesses will wear some cloth
(sackcloth) that is black. His shirt/suit wardrobe seems to have an extensive collection of black.
Never, ever trust a man wearing a sweater vest, especially a black one.
Demon possessed? I guess I must have missed that one. But, then again, I've only had time recently to skim the posts, and make a very few, quick and casual responses.
I'll just take the demon-possessed comment as meaning that my anti-Armstrong logic and rhetoric have been fairly effective. It's almost as funny as the stuff Malm, Thiel, King, and Weinland are doing, though. As if we needed examples of additional weirdness.
LOL
BB
"It's just much easier to trot out the standard "Just pray about it" bromides typically dispensed in counseling sessions as opposed to actually trying to understand the real-world dynamics of such disorders."
Armstrongism is currently nothing but an extended set of bromides and cliches. So many of the normal cause-and-effect relationships the average person takes for granted cannot be acknowledged in the mind of the Armstrongite. All mental illness has at least an element of supernatural "demonic" influence. The cure for every problem in history is anointing, praying, fasting, etc. It's really no different than any other type of mysticism. That's a big part of what makes Armstrongites say so many stupid things.
"my assessment of Robert Thiel is that he should abandon all attempts to spread any sort of "gospel" message to others and focus on the needs of his family."
I agree with Douglas. And to the Anon who suggested I was trying to "fix this site", I was simply echoing what the other Anon said before me,, about backing off.
"merciless with those who are mentally ill and their families,"
Church member in Victoria had a schizophrenic son, who rarely came to services (as far as I remember, he was not a baptized mermber), but was DFed after he had a psychotic break (telling everyone HE was Jesus; apparently, this one didn't agree wth Church doctrine and he was going to lead us all into salvation); the reason he was DFed? So he could be committed to the local mental hospital.
No one treated his father any differently. This same member also had a wife who had reduced her brain to mush with too much alcohol (before they joined the Church) so she was essentially reduced to the equivalent of a three-year-old. She was treated like a regular member by everyone else in the congregation, from what I recall.
"you suggesting that Byker Bob (and other people who post here) are demon-possessed."
Point that out to me, please, because I never said that. Give me a date and time, and a link to the post on which the comment you are referring to appeared. You're not going to find it, because I never said it.
The thing about the comments here that I was addressing, was all the jokes about the random noises in Thiel's videos being "demons;" of course no one is saying Thiel's son is demon-possessed; what I'm saying is, from the way the man is clearly growing more histrionic, it's possible that THIEL THINKS people are saying his kid is demon-possessed.
I hope that clarifies.
"Though I agree that it does raise questions as to Bob's professionalism to be so careless with his video recordings."
Here's a REALLY wild thought, folks: Could it be within the realm of possibility at all, that Thiel actually loves his kid, and accepts said kid for exactly who he is?
I mean, yeah, it's definitely a long shot. But it is possible.
"Norm, you mentioned that "I don't subscribe to the same theological leanings that Byker Bob does, but I'd hardly call him "demon possessed."
I think that's just a habit that Velvet picked up from the WCG."
That's the second time this false accusation has been brought against me. And people wonder why we think the incest allegations are questionable!
I never said any such thing. If it makes you feel better to accuse me of that, then fine, I hope you feel better.
"I know, Velvet, I know: this was never your experience up in the perfect congregation you attended in Canada,"
You can continue to spew these untruths, but repeating them over and over again won't make them actually true; if you had bothered to pay attention to what I've written here, I make no bones about the flawed areas and imperfections of the two congregations I grew up in.
To be fair, I haven't posted a lot here, though; I have said much more about the failings of my congregations, over on Mike's blog.
But, if it makes you feel better to accuse me of saying things I never said, or if it gives you a thrill to fit me into your neat little black-and-white box that you have pre-judged I assuredly belong in, have at it.
Just like Hebrew National Wieners, I answer to a Higher Authority!
"I know, Velvet, I know: this was never your experience up in the perfect congregation you attended in Canada,"
You can continue to spew these untruths, but repeating them over and over again won't make them actually true; if you had bothered to pay attention to what I've written here, I make no bones about the flawed areas and imperfections of the two congregations I grew up in.
To be fair, I haven't posted a lot here, though; I have said much more about the failings of my congregations, over on Mike's blog.
But, if it makes you feel better to accuse me of saying things I never said, or if it gives you a thrill to fit me into your neat little black-and-white box that you have pre-judged I assuredly belong in, have at it.
Just like Hebrew National Wieners, I answer to a Higher Authority!
And Blogger apparently answers to a lower authority, by double-posting my comments. :-P
Glad to learn that people here are not calling anybody "demon possessed".
Hypothetically, and attempting to apply logic to the topic of demons, if there are demons, it'd be best not to state that "so and so is possessed". Why? Well, again hypothetically, the person making such a statement might "piss" off the demon, and open the door to some sort of ungodly attack.
Personally, although I don't believe that it is legitimate theological technique to base doctrine on prophetic scripture alone, one can read in Revelation that at a specific time in the future, God will turn the demons loose, and they will create great evil and havoc on earth. I take that as meaning that they are currently restrained, and that all of the fear and speculation we learned in WCG was yet another ridiculous attempt at control of the cultic faithful. If there are actually demons wandering to and fro on the face of the earth, I believe Jesus Christ, as the good shepherd, protects His own sheep from them. Of course, if your beliefs are that each morning when you get up, you could screw up and lose your salvation, you're probably going to also doubt God's protection from the demons.
Lastly, many Christian extremists tend to escallate totally normal physical occurrences into the realm of the spiritual. Occam's razor works just as well in the Christian world as it does in the secular one! I believe that too many people get way too superstitious in their attempts to worship God! That stereotypical example makes non-believers assume that Christians lack objectivity and critical thinking skills. Actually, being Christian sharpens such skills, and provides the wisdom and discernment as to how to utilize them.
BB
Velvet wrote: "Just like Hebrew National Wieners, I answer to a Higher Authority!"
And just like COG ministers claim to as well - and look where that has gotten many of them. Ron Weinland for instance - he probably reasoned the same way. Now he's sitting in prison on tax evasion. Seems he had to answer to the IRS instead. And the guy recently found guilty of child abuse. Claiming to only be answerable to a higher authority can justify many terrible things, and in your case, Velvet, a boatload of batshit crazy comments you regularly "spew." (I know you like that word because you use it in almost every post!)
" And just like COG ministers claim to as well - and look where that has gotten many of them. Ron Weinland for instance - he probably reasoned the same way. Now he's sitting in prison on tax evasion. Seems he had to answer to the IRS instead. And the guy recently found guilty of child abuse. Claiming to only be answerable to a higher authority can justify many terrible things, and in your case, Velvet, a boatload of batshit crazy comments you regularly "spew." (I know you like that word because you use it in almost every post!)"
So, let's recap: You're comparing me to convicted criminals, and saying I use the the word spew "in almost every post."
Care to give me statistics on that, Anon?
As for Witless Weinland and his ilk, I would say (Weinland, anyway) IS being made to answer.
Now, as to your characterization of my comments, can you point out which ones you're referring to? Because I have been attempting (and, yes, I've failed, but at least I'm still trying) to be nothing but reasonable.
So, please, Anon, point me towards my comments that you refer to as "crazy."
And people wonder why we think the incest allegations are questionable!
Who are the "we" ?
Most of the people who point out the flaws with the "documentation" of the allegations, anon.
Velvet,
I wrote that you suggested Byker Bob was demon possessed.
You responded that it was not true.
Do I have to go look up your comments suggesting that? There were two. (i'm blessed(or cursed?) with an excellent memory.)
Dag-nabbit, Velvet, you are so incredibly passionate, whatever you are defending.
It used to be your aversion to most things herbified, and now it's your love of most things herbified.
BTW, I wrote, "suggested" and am aware you didn't outright say that Byker Bob is demon-possessed.
My interpretation, when I read those posts within the last month or so, was that you were strongly suggesting it.
And BTW and FYI, I have no connection to the person who you seem pissed at who you accuse of having turned you atheist or otherwise naughty at some point in the past on some other message board.
-Norm
"Anonymous said...
Velvet,
I wrote that you suggested Byker Bob was demon possessed.
You responded that it was not true.
Do I have to go look up your comments suggesting that? There were two. (i'm blessed(or cursed?) with an excellent memory.)"
Well, that is what I (rather politely, all things considered) requested, Anonymous. I have provided sources for statements I have made (see my conversation with Leo re: Keith Stump and Herman Hoeh's divergent philosophies on creation), I don't understand why my making a similar request of you is so unreasonable.
"and now it's your love of most things herbified"
And AGAIN the little black-and-white box you people keep trying to shove me into, comes up! Do I seriously have to join up with some Anabaptist denomination that believes/practices only SOME of the things that I still do, before you and at least two others on here will stop accusing me of that?
I have stated repeatedly where I thought there were errors in the Church; my noting of such errors would have the hardliners pointing and screaming like Donald Sutherland at the end of Invasion of the Body Snatchers; but nooooo, because I keep the Sabbath and the Holy Days (and make no bones about stating here that I do), automatically I'm branded as one of the black-and-white-minded, bull-headed "true believers."
I personally think I have made it MORE than clear that I do not (as some do) stick my fingers in my ears and cry "la la la la la la" when "hot button issues" come up; I think the building of AC was a mistake, I think at least half of the Church membership engaged in idol-worship of Herbert Armstrong (and I think that all of the splinter groups DO engage in that very idol-worship) and I have stated repeatedly that I do NOT have a black-and-white "He was right!" view about the Herbert Armstrong and the Church.
If you have as eidetic a memory as you claim, Head Usher, why do you insist on trying to force me into a box I was never inside to begin with??
Sorry, Norm, not Head Usher. But, oh, gasp! I made an attribution mistake. Now everyone can accuse me for that........
Hey, yeah, not me!
I actually try to be careful to be respectful of good boundaries. That means not overtly trying to "define" others (putting them in a box), not being too accusatory, and not putting my fingers in other people's pies too much. Disrespect of other's boundaries is fundamental to how cults control people, and Armstrongism is no exception. So, I might not always succeed 100% of the time, but I do try. So, I try to keep my hands to myself. But I will ask questions if something doesn't make sense to me. I guess as much as anything, that's often a defense against an idea, which at least the way I understand that idea, I don't want it getting in.
FWIW, I'm here because being here helps me to unwrap the tentacles of Armstrongism that are still wrapped around my psyche. So, I'm here to discuss and disempower ideas that have been powerful and destructive in my life. I'm not here to attack anybody else. Well, maybe HWA, but not anybody here.
Velvet writes, "I have stated repeatedly that I do NOT have a black-and-white "He was right!" view about the Herbert Armstrong and the Church."
Feel free to state that- all you'd like!
But what you write often shows a love for both Herbvert and his so-called "church", which was little different than crack on heroin.
Have you read Fragments in Focus, yet?
"But what you write often shows a love for both Herbvert and his so-called "church", which was little different than crack on heroin."
Demonstrate your work, Anonymous: Refer me to exactly where I "what [I] write" has shown any such thing.
"Have you read Fragments in Focus, yet?"
Gavin's review of the Barrett book? Yes, in fact, I linked to it in the comments, a couple of posts up.
Still on the fence whether or not to read the Barrett book itself. Though it would profit me very little, judging myself by the comments made about me on this website. (Not that any of the blatant untruths all of you write about me matters one iota; I answer to no man.)
Tongues=foreign languages
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