Above is the first photo from Davey Pack's reeducation camp of a man who decided to join up with Davey. This is what happened when he lowered his standards and took Davey's 35 point test to determine if he was qualified to kneel at Davey's feet.
No man in his right mind would submit himself to Davey's 35 point questionnaire. No wife of a real man would ever let her husband do it either.
Byker Bob wrote:
This is self- defeating. He's just limited his pool of ministers to zero. I'm sure he will provide a path around the obvious for any high profile ministers from the past who could bring additional status to his organization.
We would hope this would be self defeating, but there will be some weak men who will lower their standards and let themselves be humiliated. That is what Armstrongism has taught them to do. They have no voice now and certainly will not when they jump over to Davey's side.
Dennis aptly wrote:
Dave has created a TERRIBLE Dilemma for any suck up fake minister that wants in. Now we know the process. He could have at least kept it to himself and in house but this will prove to be his biggest blunder of all. Well except from thinking he is spoken of in the Bible or Haggai had him in mind in the 500's BCE.
Dave wants the glory days back. This means that anyone that wants back also wants those days of pay, cars, respect not earned (there were many very sincere and respectable men and wives in WCG in my experience. You just never heard of them and they have since disappeard in disgust and lessons learned) and such.
I love "Are you willing to be an Associate Pastor?"
Dave was made an associate pastor under Steve Botha in NYC because of Dave's antics and offenses to people in Buffalo. Finally WCG had had enough of DCP. Ask Steve how well Dave was willing to be an Associate Pastor. Read Dave's won autobiography where he moans and bitches about his unfair reduction in RANK to an associate Pastor.
DAVE NEVER DID WHAT HE DEMANDS NOW OF OTHERS. I think his sub conscious mind wants revenge.
Steve told me when I asked how Dave was doing. He said, "Oh..fine...and he'll go back to his old ways when he gets free of this."
Prophecy comes alive.
I would like the names and phone numbers of any man who submits to this little exam. I'd like to meet a man who could share all their inner thoughts that no doubt they would be making up to appease the High Priest to get a job.
This really does limit Dave's ministerial options because now we all know what any man, falsely so called would have had to do to get back into David C Christ's good graces.
What a mockery of reality.
14 comments:
this goes along with those under 40 being ignorant. Because they are under 40, they cannot answer any of the 34 questions since they could not have committed any of the 'crimes' the other ministry is supposed to have committed. He would simply use his questionnaire as a tool to use against anyone stupid enough to join him. Like having a loaded gun to your head. Just why not say in the word of Waynes World: We're not worthy....
There's a couple ex-PCG ministers that Flurry unmercifully fired this year, one being Aaron Eagle, who just so happens to be in Pack's neck of the woods. Eagle would make the perfect poster child to help get Pack's career expo jump-started.
If Pack is unsuccessful in recruiting a desperate guy like Aaron Eagle, who Pack surely had in mind when he wrote his surrender questionnaire, then I don't see how he's going to acquire a big name, currently employed minister this summer.
However, if there happens to be any new persons, minister or not, who show up at RCG during the Great COG Reunification countdown, then they need to have their names and pictures leaked and posted, and added to the biggest wuss record of all time.
How true this is! We now know exactly what Dale Schurter went through when he defected. I just cannot picture any man lowering himself to these kinds of questions.
The local minister, in many ways, becomes the "face" of the church, the one who counsels, consoles, and encourages on a day to day basis. How could any member respect a minister who has been vetted in this way? If he's going to emasculate his ministers like this, just wait until he gets down to the member level!
Apparently, Dave thinks his control is an adequate substitute for the Holy Spirit! He should fear to usurp, or to be presumptuous, but apparently he does not.
BB
There is the old Hall of Shame over at Painful truth where i still hang in shame just for being a minister in WCG. Could we puuuulllease make Dave's nebies the new Hall of Shame??? :-)
Yeah...great idea!!
D. Diehl
Oh, I can hear it now in my head, something like this, from any new ministers over there in Wadsworth....
"...OH YES,APOSTLE AND HIGH PRIEST MASTER PACK JOSHUA, MR. HERBERT W. ARMSTRONG IS ELIJAH AND ZERUBBABEL AND I'LL NEVER SAY ANYTHING AGAINST THE MINISTRY OR DOCTRINES AND I'LL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH AN I'LL NEVER EVER LEAVE THE CHURCH OR RETIRE OR GO NON-CAREER AND I'LL EXPLAIN MY PAST AND I PROMISE PROMISE I'LL REGAIN YOUR TRUST AND THE BRETHRENS TRUST AND I'LL DISFELLOWSHIP ANYONE WHO SAYS FALSE DOCTRINE AND I'LL TEACH WITH POWER ON THE PULPIT EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT ME TO SAY AND BLAH BLAH I DONT WANT TO BE AN ASSOCIATE PASTOR REALLY I DONT BUT IF THATS WHAT YOU WANT IF IT BEHOOVES YOU TO DO SO I SUBMIT AND BLAH BLAH "
I lost all respect for That Schurter Guy when he defected and seemed to suddenly change his tune and this and that. As such, I can't imagine how any pastor could EVER transition over to Pack's team and subject themselves to what I see as this kinda sorta interrogation like questionaire. Yes, I'd like to see the new "Hall of Shame" or whatever you want to call it. How CRAZY crazy it was to release in public that ministerial questionnaire!!! Talk about what's in my opinion a horrible business decision!!
How do you know if RCG is ticklish?
If you want to become a minister there you give it two test tickles.
David C. Pack is certainly right to be careful about who he allows to become ministers in the RCG.
Some WCG ministers would go along with anything for the paycheck. They would pretend to support HWA, and then pretend to support JWT, and now they would pretend to support DCP if he would go along with it. Some people would like to get into the RCG and collect a paycheck from it while totally disagreeing with it.
When WCG ministers did not go with Gerald Flurry, he set up just any old perverts as PCG ministers. They were allowed to pass off their own satanic abuse as the government of God. These PCG perverts would absolutely need to repent and be re-educated and re-trained before they would be fit to be left alone around RCG church members.
Some newbies badgered the UCG leadership into "credentialing" them in the UCG. They really deserved to be flunked and utterly rejected for their vile attitudes and conduct and wholehearted support of evil behavior. These UCG bums would absolutely need to repent and be re-educated and re-trained before they would be fit to be left alone around RCG church members.
When I think of all the various rotten characters who passed themselves off as ministers and local leaders in the WCG and its splinter groups like PCG, GCG, UCG, etc., I certainly do hope that David Pack is very careful about who he sets up as ministers in the RCG. Church members who are just trying to do what is right and support the truth of God should be protected from satanic perverts, not subjected to them pretending to be ministers.
If what you described are IN the pool of people who he wants to come over to RCG ... If SOME of THESE are the pools of people coming from the various splinters, why is he then begging ALL of them to come on over and "miss their calling"?
Does he really want these sort to come over to his church? I wouldn't have even wasted my breath writing a "come over here and don't miss your calling" letter if it is believed that these are the sort of people who would want to "minister" in RCG. I'd keep the letter quiet, and simply send personal correspondence to the ones who have a hope of being qualified.
The way this is written it seems the rejected ones would just sit down there in the audience and pay tithes and listen to sermons. Maybe that's the hope of the "Cattle Call", if you will. If you know your "ministerial candidates" from other churches are what you have described them as, then why in the world would a mass call be sent? You'd think he'd know the "good" sheep from the "bad" sheep in COG terms. There's no reason to send out a public cattle call like this, if so many will be rejected. I question the motives.
Anonymous 8:36, in many ways, what you outlined is all too close to reality. Most of us who have been aware of the Armstrong movement for many years agree that there should be standards for the ministry, and have loudly commented every time we become aware that standards have been violated or abused. Unfortunately, you stopped short of taking your point to logical conclusion. One of the ministers well-intentioned church members need to be protected against is David Pack himself. He is the wolf guarding the chicken coop against the foxes. My opinion, of course, matters less than what we will be watching unfold over the coming weeks.
BINGO.
Let's look at the reality here. It seems that David Pack's last official ordination by elder's hands in "the Church" was to a Pastor Rank minister. He feels by his own analysis he is the rank of "Apostle". Who made him, according to Herbert Armstrong's standards of ordination (look it up), an Apostle. Who made him, according to the Bible's standards of ministry, even capable of being a minister according to the Bible's qualifications? And more then this, after all that has been documented - things alleged by SO MANY, - how can those allegations be literally ignored, and how is he capable of judging others in ministry when he seems to be refusing to be judged by others? Who gave him the right to judge others who may "bellyache" about being an "Associate Pastor" when a previous post says he seemed to have a problem with his own "rank reduction"? I agree with Anon 11:33. Also, I fail to understand how people can come to such logical conclusions about everybody except for themselves -- then I see all it is in my view is excuses and flat out denial.
You know, when I read Pack's questionnaire for recruiting ministers, I don't think of Joshua/Yeshua/Jesus at all. I think of Mephistopheles.
Remember, he's the demon that offered Doctor Faustus success in this world--unlimited wealth, universal acclaim, the option to become invisible, the power to tour the world from the air, access to the world's most beautiful women--if he would just sign over his soul to Satan. Theologians hold conflicting ideas about what a soul consists of, but Pack's list looks like it would strip out most of the components that belong in it. And the ministers get only a few piddling scraps of Faustus's perks in return.
I wonder if ministerial candidates are required to sign their questionnaires in blood?
Who would ever have thought that someone would add a bunch of Pharisaic do's and don't's to the qualifications for a bishop listed in II Timothy?
Miguel de la Rodente
How was Aaron Eagle "unmercifully" fired? I saw on ESN that in August he was suspended. Any updates from anyone? The Eagles were good friends of our family until it was all torn apart by Cal Culpepper in 2010 when we went for "ministerial counsel". Then our family was strewn to the four winds with suspensions and worldwide markings. And Mr. Eagle, our long-time friend, sat there and watched it all. I still have two adult kids in PCG who haven't talked to me since. It's been the heartbreak of my life!
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