There is a Facebook page about Ambassador Auditorium. It was started for those who worked in the building or enjoyed concerts there as a place to reminisce. That went along pretty well till the Kitchen Trinity hit the scene with their uber-HWA worship.
Anyone who does not agree with their HWA idolatry are pawns of Satan. Those that are no longer part of the church and speak out against abuse are in "rebellion" against his god.
Its all about TRUTH, bitterness, rebellion, satan and disrespect
Samuel W Kitchen Here's something to think about guys and girls. Lucifer one day told his angels. "I was there man. I was right there at HQ, right at the throne of God. I touched the throne. I smelled the air. I heard the music. I pondered what I saw. You never were there man firsthand. Now, here is what God said. And here is how he was so wrong. And look at all the mistakes he did. He's up there, and we are down here, and there is no way he knows what we are going through. And you know what? we need to grow in the grace and knowledge. God always says we must grow right? So here is how God has been so unfair and here are some new doctrines in replacement of those doctrines that are so unfair."
And you know what, Lucifer was in REBELLION against God and HQ. But he was there firsthand, and he was taught God's way and laws, BUT again, that means NOTHING if that person is embittered and in rebellion!
A kid who flunked out of Harvard, cannot go around and say he attended Harvard, as if that places him in some kind of prestige and in some kind of authority. He flunked out, never learned anything the school was teaching! The same is with college at Ambassador. If you don't live and do what you was taught then, then you wasted a seat. And you have no authority over what happened or what was taught! Because you didn't learn it. And if you consider that time a waste of time, then you flunked out!
Listen, If you don't like your past experiences, then don't come onto a forum(Facebook group) that will daily remind you of them. You guys love all the gossip, but you can't stand anyone presenting the truth and teachings you rejected. I say, if one attacks Herbert W Armstrong and the Church, they must bring documented official church material to prove their point. Then the documents proving what was taught, that proves their case or disproves their case will be displayed, and people know the truth. But this thing of saying, "we were there. We know what we are saying." IS POPPYCOCK!!! Bring proof, and stop urinating down our backs and telling us that it is rain. simply put...I feel this forum was set up to trap people. Look at what has transpired. Everyone can have their free voice here, but nothing for the Church or Herbert W Armstrong. People can voice their bitterness towards it all, but no one is allowed to voice the Truth of it all.
I have looked at how this forum treats those who still believe the same way. Whenever one speaks up "for" Mr.Armstrong, or whatever was taught in defense towards another slant someone said against it, they are bullied until they are beaten into submission or they leave.
We will reap what we sow. This group at one time said "no doctrine", but then quickly changed their mind, and allowed people to bring their doctrine that undermined and disrespects, and goes contrary to what this Auditorium was built for, and against all of what the Church taught and stood for. That is highly disrespectful!
Anyone can look back at what was taught AND LEARN. They can find the Truth. And if God is calling them they will find the truth, and every lie will be exposed!
Remember Satan was right there in person at HQ. It doesn't make him an expert witness.
28 comments:
LOL! This is priceless! The video and the silly letter. This made my day.
Sam says: "...if one attacks Herbert W Armstrong and the Church, they must bring documented official church material to prove their point."
Sam wants church documents to prove the point of Herbie's incest and other corruption?
Try this Sam.
Too many "KOOKS" in the "KITCHEN" !
This is very disturbing: A cult member insisting that only the elite of the cult can determine the legitimacy of the cult.
Ambassador College is gone, the pervert who committed incest with his daughter is dead and the Worldwide Church is gone. The prophecies of the false prophet founding the rubbish have all failed. Samuel Kitchen needs to prove that the WCG ever existed along with Ambassador College and the only proof we will accept is a tour of the current campus and attending Sabbath Services there at Pasadena. Nothing else will suffice, otherwise he is a liar and deceiver headed for burning up in the Lake of Fire (if you believe in that sort of thing).
We also want forensics from a valid laboratory to determine the source (if any) of the urine and whose backs it has been soaked into.
Right.
No proof.
Well, that about wraps up the credibility for Sammy boy -- an accuser of the brethren with not one shred of scientific proof because he has absolutely no standing in scientific circles and cannot give us any credible proof to dispute DNA evidence that can prove allegations of British Israelism nor can he disprove the faux history of the church has been fabricated by Ellen G. White of the Seventh Day Adventists.
Perhaps an evaluation by a qualified mental health professional can cast aspersions... er... light on his mental state. We can give referrals. He will need to take the prescribed medicines so he will not be a danger to himself or others.
Of course, the Armstrongists seem to have been ignoring the proof from Donna Kossy that Herbert Armstrong was a kook presented at BritishIsraelism.com.
Of course, since the Worldwide Church of Fraud attracted alcoholics, perhaps the problem has everything to do with excessive boozing.
Based on what he has written, it seems obvious that he occasionally reads here, and is responsible for some of the anonymous comments. Everyone has some strong points and some weak ones, but Sam Kitchen doesn't appear to be capable of any real deep thought.
BB
Say, you know, Sammy should contact Dixon Cartright... uh, Cartrite... um, Cartwright (his email is cartright@ but his name is Cartwright at The Journal) and have Dix publish this business about the urinating -- maybe a 17 page spread like another contributor (be assured the word "urinating" will be only vaguely implied, since it's all one big dysfunctional Mafia Family Cult). It's just the sort of thing The Journal would want to publish because Sammy was part of the elite (was he?) at Ambassador College, so he automatically has all the credibility he needs.
The rest of us have none.
That's the way it is with the elite of a cult. Truth and facts have not one bit of traction, but the liars of the elite and the delusional who are wishfully, or maybe wistfully, imagining again have their say without question.
They certainly have their say without one shred of discomfort, let alone fear.
Oh man, if I would just listen to this guy, Oh man, Oh man, Oh man, man, man, man, Oh man!
As if Lucifer/Satan has to get in and twist our minds. LOLLL.
It couldn't be that we actually have a mind of our own, (and are using it) and know exactly what we went through and experienced, DUMBASS! How's that for REBELLION!!
I'd rather hear Sam Kinison preach than Sam Kitchen.
The name Kitchen is not all that common. During my exposure to WCG, the only person I met by that last name was at SEP in Tejas. IIRC, his family was from Santa Barbara. Dale had wanted a 1948 Mercury because someone told him that that year had the best flathead V-8 engine ever made, and his parents had promised him that if he did well at SEP, he could have one. The parents drove out to Tejas to pick him up at the end of camp. Although he got more than his share of swats, John Robinson, his booth monitor, diplomatically told the parents that of all the kids in his booth, Dale had learned the most that summer.
As a car guy myself, I know that the early hotrodders would always use Mercury cranks to stroke their flatheads, gaining 10-15 more horsepower, but I don't know that the '48 engines were any better or stronger than the '49-'51. I later had a '55 Chevy motor in my '51 Merc, and that car had at one time held the record in its class for the flying quarter mile at Lyons Dragstrip in California. There were a lot of us kids that were into cars at SEP, but most probably never got past the fantasizing stage. It'd be nice to think that Dale got his '48 Merc and lived out his car fantasies, but I never heard anything more of him after that summer.
BB
How timely, since the Pissover is just around the corner.
Undoubtedly, the Pissover will be reported in The Urinal: Covering up the rubbish of the Armstrongist Churches of God by Dixoff Cartwrong.
And everyone will sing:
"Only Armstrongist ministers
Have sinned within thy sight,
Unreported events covered up
By an editor named Cartrite;
They really try to force it
With their narcissistic sell,
So they can keep us all,
In collective Hell."
"But this thing of saying, 'we were there. We know what we are saying.' IS POPPYCOCK!!! Bring proof, and stop urinating down our backs and telling us that it is rain."
Hmm. So, let me guess, if other people say they were there so they know, that's invalid, but how can you contradict them unless you're saying, "No, I WAS THERE, so I'M THE ONE THAT KNOWS, and my point of view is more valid that your point of view." Who's pissing on who here? Sounds like a pissing contest to me.
Herbie made an extraordinary living off of pissing on people and telling them it was rain. He was incredibly successful at convincing people it was rain and that they should want to be pissed on. But one man's kidneys can only produce so much piss. So he started a corporation for the purpose of pissing on people and telling them it was rain, and he hired hundreds of men to do his pissing for him. He even started a college to help him identify and recruit men with good kidneys and a good stream. These men are still busy pissing all over people and telling them it's rain. The only time they're not doing that is when they're pissing on each other, which has a way of pissing them off because professional urinators know the difference between piss and rain, and they know when someone is pissing on them. And then there's all the people who are still begging to be pissed on.
Sing along time! Sing along to the tune "We're In The Money" from the Broadway Musical "42nd Street"...
Urine the money,
Urine the money;
We've got nothing of what it takes to get along!
Urine the money,
Kitchen is funny;
He is an Old Man Depression,
thourougly through and through...
Seems like "they", against truth and all odds, always have to find a colorful method of portraying this thing as if there could be some last ditch way that they could be right, and will at last be vindicated.
Sam has turned this into an impossible scenario. Anyone who was there and saw and understood what was going on behind the veneer or facade, according to Kitchen, can't be relied upon for the facts, because he or she heard but didn't learn or grasp what was taught in overt mode. And, he equates such a person with Satan and the demons to make his point as if HWA were actually God. So, in his specious reasoning, there can be no dissent. He has nullified the "prove all things" precept by rendering it impossible. If that isn't a brainwashed true believer, I don't know what is.
Sam, Your mind is like a parachute. It only works and protects you if it is open.
BB
When my mother first started showing real signs of Alzheimers disease, one of the dead giveaways that it was actually the disease at work and not just normal spaciness/senility was that she couldn't really reason anymore. She would insist (sometimes with violence), for example, that doors had been opened even when I put a paper seal on the edge to show that it had not.
Its not too different with people like this. They want so badly to protect their personal fantasy of HWA and his organization that they just can't stand anyone speaking against that.
This is a long one...if anyone cares to read, you'll know why I curse now...LOLLL,
Herbert W. Armstrong said this...
http://www.hwalibrary.com/cgi-bin/get/hwa.cgi?action=gettcast&InfoID=1332082501#.UzYf1qKeydV
HWA said: "The reason is because God is permitting man to do as man seems to think is right and "there is a way that seems right to a man [it seems so right], but the end thereof are the ways of death." Now, that happens to be true. That's just a plain fact. Not very many people believe it I know, but it's a fact. It's a fact you can't get around. And the only way that God could prevent all of these terrible conditions would be to prevent man from doing the things that bring these terrible conditions upon us. And man wants to do it and if God prevented man from doing it He would have to prevent man from thinking for himself or acting with free volition as man decides. (And to do that He would have to make man like an automaton or like some absolutely brainless mindless creature of some kind that had to do just as God had set it to do and would be totally unable to think or to reason or to plan or to act according to self direction and free volition, free moral agency.)
NOTICE HWA SAYS: To do that He would have to make man like an automaton or like some absolutely brainless mindless creature of some kind that had to do just as God had set it to do and would be totally unable to think or to reason or to plan or to act according to self direction and free volition, free moral agency.)
...Soooooo, if this is true...Why did HWA set up HIS KINGDOM > to make man like an automaton or like some absolutely brainless mindless creature of some kind that had to do just as god (HWA) had set it to do and would be totally unable to think or to reason or to plan or to act according to self direction and free volition, free moral agency.)
Question then: WHY WAS I THREATENED WITH DISFELLOWSHIP FOR THINKING ON MY OWN AND SAYING "NO", I DO NOT AGREE WITH PAYING MY EX HUSBAND CHILD SUPPORT?? Therefore, my child got dumped off at my apartment six years ago because >GOD'S GOVERNMENT< AKA >GERALD FLURRY< AKA PHILADELPHIA CHURCH OF GOD< >HEADQUARTERS> EDMOND OK> (TORNADO ALLEY),was not interested in helping me or my son >ONLY THEMSELVES<, clearing...>THE CHURCH<...>JOKE<.
According to my ex, (whom BRIAN DAVIS of the PCG told me to leave), he believes "HE WON". My ex thinks he beat out the Philadelphia Church of God and myself in court!" Looks like he really did...HE WON!
The PCG didn't help me or my son one least bit. This is so true then. My ex DID win the court case!
I went to court because a regional director >BRIAN DAVIS< of the Philadelphia Church of God told me to leave...>DUMB MECRITICAL THINKING SKILLS< HWA says humans were given to think and reason for themselves.
The PCG was not on my side. They only wanted to clear >GOD'S CHURCH< >JOKE AGAIN<.
When they were cleared, they cared less what happened to me and my son. I was ORDERED to sign the final documents to pay my ex child support, because as my local minister put it,"The Church isn't going to pay for your divorce anymore!"
>STUPID ME<, I had become like an automaton or like some absolutely brainless mindless creature of some kind that had to do just as God (HWA) had set it to do and would be totally unable to think or to reason or to plan or to act according to self direction and free volition, free moral agency.)
In reality, I was soooooo pissed, I told my attorney, (which was not working for me anyway, just the PCG), that I was going to sue the Judge, Rains County and everyone else involved in the insanity. BRIAN DAVIS told me to apologize to the attorney the PCG had hired. I was soooooooooooooooo stuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid! to listen to >PCG GOVERNMENT<.
signed...Still Pissed!
This guy is about as irrational as some of the regulars that post here--living in delusions and refusing to check out the facts.
Uhhhhhh, ya mean your distorted version of "the facts" , 10:11??? We don't want your "facts", we want the real ones. Go get another roll of Reynolds Wrap!
Anonymous said...
This guy is about as irrational as some of the regulars that post here--living in delusions and refusing to check out the facts.
March 28, 2014 at 10:11 PM
Another MR."AFRAID" AKA Anonymous. Never want to post a real name for "fear". Being a little irrational hmmm? Thinks all they have to do is post a sly little remark like this and people reading would doubt every TRUTH written here, >DEVIL<.
How bout YOU Mr. Fearful, go get your facts and quit living in delusions. And post a name scaredy cat!
Someone who would speak admiringly of Adolf Hitler, and who would exhort all of us to check the facts so that we, too, would speak admiringly of Adolf Hitler is simply not right in the head. It is our duty as civilized human beings to repudiate and shun such a one. It demonstrates love, compassion, and a desire for the greater good that we do so.
BB
"But what is your real name!" is the last refuge of a clueless scoundrel with an indefensible emotion-originated belief system.
One day young Sam (now early twenties)will wake up to the truth and feel sick for believing in the man HWA. This family puts him next to the Son which is a blasphemy and saying one must accept hwa, etc. HWA sect did not have the Son as the foundation and he never accepted Him as a Savior and taught that He only came as a messenger just as a lot of the splinters are teaching. To their own destruction! These people do not have the love of the Creator blocking anyone who does not agree with their idol. Shame!
What in the world does Hitler have to do with any of it? -RSK
RSK,
While he, she, or it posts as "anonymous" his terse comments and writing style have left the exact type of vapor trail he thinks he is avoiding by not having a screen name. Unless the posts are just bait, Hitler is one of his primary influences, and he is a white supremacist who believes the holocaust is an elaborate fabrication.
BB
I don't let through half of the stuff he sends. You see just the tip of the iceberg.
The tip is just bad enough to demonstrate the lasting influences and effects of Armstrongism, Gary. I appreciate your work!
BB
BB, I seriously doubt our Hitler-defending troll turned toxic due to the lasting influences and effects of Armstrongism. I know several COG members and ex-members who are sober and responsible and whose opinions on most topics are reasonable enough to make them enjoyable company. They remain decent folks in spite of having been hoodwinked by (and some still loyal to) doctrines you and I see are wrong
It seems more likely the influence goes the other way: Armstrongism attracts people who are predisposed to kookiness. My father, for example, was almost as crazy as our troll. Judging by family history, he was probably genetically predisposed, and he suffered traumas as a child and youth known to trigger mental illness. My mother married him because he was charming and charismatic, and only afterwards saw that he was also tyrannical and irresponsible. It was a pattern; she was his fourth wife.
He was fascinated by prophecy long before Armstrong began broadcasting. When he first heard "The World Tomorrow," he seized upon it as the center of his world-view, but he would have been crazy without it, anyway.
Retired Prof said...
BB, I seriously doubt our Hitler-defending troll turned toxic due to the lasting influences and effects of Armstrongism. I know several COG members and ex-members who are sober and responsible and whose opinions on most topics are reasonable enough to make them enjoyable company. They remain decent folks in spite of having been hoodwinked by (and some still loyal to) doctrines you and I see are wrong
It seems more likely the influence goes the other way: Armstrongism attracts people who are predisposed to kookiness. My father, for example, was almost as crazy as our troll. Judging by family history, he was probably genetically predisposed, and he suffered traumas as a child and youth known to trigger mental illness. My mother married him because he was charming and charismatic, and only afterwards saw that he was also tyrannical and irresponsible. It was a pattern; she was his fourth wife.
He was fascinated by prophecy long before Armstrong began broadcasting. When he first heard "The World Tomorrow," he seized upon it as the center of his world-view, but he would have been crazy without it, anyway.
March 31, 2014 at 8:25 AM
Interesting observation Retired Prof. I found this scripture that pretty much fits with your observations...
1 Corinthians 1 25-29...25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
...could it possibly be so??
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