For months now various LCG members and others are reporting how disunified the Living Church of God currently is. Turmoils seems to boil in Charlotte and elsewhere. As the LCG moves closer to the day that Rod Meredith dies, it is having to deal with dissension emerging from the ministerial ranks and the members. Many fear that Meredith's son will be pointed as successor.
Right before the Feast of Tabernacles 2014, Rod McNair preached a sermonette where he discusses those who cause division and how the church is to deal with them. He lists four categories of those who disagree with the church. This information is so serious that the LCG sent this sermonette out on tape and COMMANDED all the church areas play it along with a sermon by Rod Meredith..
He starts out though reinforcing the rule that the ministers have been placed OVER the members. They are there to ensure an atmosphere of unity. He tells LCG members that the ministry is also there to help stop them from being deceived. I had to laugh at that one since most of the ministry of the LCG is deceiving the members day in and day out with aberrant doctrines and other silly rules.
Authority of the ministry has a great responsibility and that includes disassociating people from fellowship....but members should always remember it is done in love......
Then he says, 'When a flyswatter will do - don't bring a sledge hammer." This too is laughable considering the heavy handedness of Meredith and others that have disfellowshipping hundreds and hundreds of people over the decades. Very few times was it done in "love." Most of the time is was for revenge. Meredith was particularly good at the revenge part in the late 70's when GTA got kicked out. Meredith went on a scorched earth policy kicking out all kinds of people who had the slightest association with GTA. I saw the letters that he sent to those people. They were shocked at the vehement attitude he exhibited.
The categories the LCG uses to disassociate people are:
- Those who drop out and leave, whether it be to another COG or just stop attending. McNair claims, "...we do not force people to stay in the church." He claims that if LCG members happen to meet these people in the store they are not to hide from them but are to look at them as they do anyone else in the world. This is all laughable again since the LCG and most other COG preach insistently that those who leave the church have the holy spirit taken from them. So when an LCG member sees these people in the store they immediately think what sorry creatures they are for turning their backs on God. The commendation is ingrained.
- Those who are suspended. If a person has done wrong or continues to do wrong they are suspended for period of time. It usually is for a couple of months so a person feels apart from the body. The person is not announced from the pulpit and members are not told to stay away from the person. The individual is told to keep away from members. Those close to the person may be told to not associate with them for a period of times though.
- Those disfellowshipped. They are not to return because of issues that can harm the church. he reason is not announced from the pulpit. Only close associates will be told to stay away from them. LCG members are not to hide from them if they see them in the store. Members are not to meet socially with them or to take part in any social media they are on. This comment stands out above every thing else McNair presents. Social media has wreaked havoc on the Churches of God over the last several decades. Many like Pack, Cox and Flurry see social media as dangerous and tell members to not read the Internet or participate in Facebook groups and other social media so that they be not corrupted. Social media right now is keeping the dissension in the LCG alive and flourishing.
Tough times are ahead for the Living Church of God as it tries to deal with the grumbling ministers and members. The more they kick out the less money will be coming in. That seems to be the most important factor in constantly talking about unity in the church. As much as they desire it, they will never have unity.
- Marked members. Those who cause deliberate division and who go against church doctrine or teachings. These people are sicked out and publicly marked in order to protect the church. Personal details are not supposed to be mentioned because "love covers a multitude of sin." Excuse me while I recover from laughing. There have been very few times this has ever been done on "love" towards the individual or families. It is almost always a weapon used to punish an individual or a family. It is deliberately done to embarrass them and to be a warning to other church members that they too can share the same fate. It has always been used in the Church of God as a tool of fear and intimidation.
You can listen to Rod McNair's COMMANDED sermonette here:
The other commanded sermon is by Rod Meredith and was on GOVERNMENT. It can be listened to here.
A sermonette on the authority ministers have in kicking people out and then a sermon by Meredith on proper government. Fear is definitely in the air in Charlotte as these two recordings are being used as a weapon of intimidation and fear. Tough times are ahead for the LCG members.
73 comments:
No one seems to be awake and alert enough to figure out that those who are aware of the crimes committed by the ministry are coconspirators as accessories after the fact and ought to be prosecuted and given a stiff prison term.
Roderick Meredith was responsible for the ministry in the United States while he was #3 in the Worldwide Church of God and he was aware of all sorts of felonies being committed, yet he never reported them to the proper civil authorities for prosecution. Under the law, he is guilty of being an accessory after the fact for these crimes and he should have gone to prison.
Fortunately for him, for the most part, the statute of limitations has passed for the crimes committed in the church of which he was aware and cannot now be prosecuted. Unless he is now a recent accessory of the fact, he is safe from criminal prosecution.
However, Scripture says that a 'bishop' (in this case, make that read 'evangelist') must have a good report of them which are without. He does not and he is even a proven false prophet.
So therefore, Roderick Meredith and a whole host of leaders in the various Armstrongist cults can no longer be ministers. In fact, it's apparent, they should be disfellowshipped and even maybe prosecuted to be sent to prison.
Repentance would be nice, but even then, they could only be a rank and file member and have absolutely no office within the cult.
Now here's a question for you:
If Roderick Meredith were just a rank and file member in the LCG, would he stay in the church?
Given his history with Global, it's fairly clear he wouldn't because he MUST be in charge and in the case of Global, he left even though he WAS in charge.
Roderick Meredith was responsible for the ministry in the United States while he was #3 in the Worldwide Church of God and he was aware of all sorts of felonies being committed, yet he never reported them to the proper civil authorities for prosecution.
Roderick Meredith is #1 in the Living Church of God. If one of his ministers or other employees is guilty of felonious conduct, then as an officer of LCG he is responsible to report those felonies to the proper civil authorities. If he has not done so, lawsuits can be filed against LCG for Meredith's abetting and covering up those felonies.
Meredith belongs in jail. Actually he belongs in hell. Perhaps his heretical Armstrongist teachings that deny eternal hell are a comfort to him, as he can reassure himself that his torment won't be all that bad. That's assuming he believes in any sort of God at all.
Sadly, the info on this blog is just as unreliable as anything the LCG barfs out.
Sadly, the info on this blog is just as unreliable as anything the LCG barfs out
Sadly, there is an element of truth to that.
Here's an example:
Sadly, the info on this blog is just as unreliable as anything the LCG barfs out
Doug Winnail has a piece out today talking about how the LCG needs to stay unified. All of this talk of unity is covering something up that is going on.
Remember the good ol' days when you could simply stone everyone who disagreed with you? Then you wouldn't have to worry about the awkward situation of running into them in the store.
This reminds me of the sort of sermons coming from UCG headquarters in 2010, such as the one by Denny Luker when he said that if you don't like the leadership of "god's government" then you are "rebellious" and should either repent or leave...
Or the missive by John Elliott talking about how UCG is the one and only "true" church and UCG's ministry are the one and only replacements of the "Levitical preisthood" (laughable claims theologically, historically, and because they presume UCG is the only religious organization...)
I have no doubt that if the ministers who said such ridiculous things in 2010 were (alive and) asked if they agreed with such ridiculous statements would deny them now in 2014 when a split isn't in the offing. The beauty of selective memory. Fascist dictators tried to seem like "nice" guys too. But when push comes to shove, the iron fist comes out. Such are the situational ethics necessary to run the "one true church." They're the same as anywhere else in "the world."
Meredith was very heavy handed when Garner Ted Armstrong was kicked out. Here is one example of him trying to crudely intimidate WCG members to not join Garner Ted Armstrong's group.
"Mr. Armstrong has reminded us again that we are to disfellowship any members who attend GTA's [Garner Ted Armstrong's] campaigns, church services or other meetings. Some of our weaker members apparently do not realize that this man is in direct rebellion against God and His government! We must not allow them, or ourselves, to rationalize about this matter, to try to "help the underdog," or in any other way lend support to one whose gross immorality, whose long standing "play acting" and hypocrisy, and whose direct insubordination to the Government of God has long been and is now a source of confusion and DIVISION among God's people. So, as per Mr. Armstrong's instruction, I charge and exhort every one of you faithful ministers of the living Christ to explain this in no uncertain terms to your members, to warn them about this cause of division and then to disfellowship any who consort with GTA or any of his fellows."
(Roderick C. Meredith, Pastor's Report, May 21, 1979, pp. 1-2.)
Last year I went through the issues of the Pastor General's Report while Meredith was head of the ministry in January-August 1979. Fairly often he would announce in it that he was disfellowshippnig a WCG minister. One sickening thing about these announcements of disfellowshipment is that he would insist that he "had" to do and that he regretted it.
It is very hard to take that seriously. If he really did not like it then why keep doing it even today?
Getting disfellowhipped or marked , which is Biblical, is a function of the ridiculous concept of
I Cor 1:10
New International Version
I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought."
The pursuit of truth does not work this way. Compliance to the same ideas, mostly the same wrong ones, does work this way. It is a ridiculous concept and scripture or command. It' what holds organization together and surpresses growing out of false concepts and ideas.
Paul believed and taught that Jesus was coming soon and "we would be changed." I am sure that is what he required to be taught and those that may have grown skeptical over time were criticised for lack of faith and harmony in the group I am sure. However we know who proved ultimately to be correct.
I Cor 1:10 is the culprit and terrible advice that should never be taken seriously if one is living of life of seeking truth, whatever the hell that actually is.
Disfellowship is nothing more then a ploy to keep people enslaved in the organization. They can't allow people who disagree with their teachings or who question the authority in the organization to poison the other members so that the tithe slaves will not leave. It is nothing more then keeping the organization intact. Never mind the damage it does to the people involved.
I knew Rod McNair when he was a kid. He was a good kid, too bad he is in an abusive organization like the LCG.
I Corinthians 1:10: "I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought."
Article 81 of the constitution of North Korea: "Citizens shall firmly safeguard the political and ideological unity and solidarity of the people. Citizens shall cherish their organization and collective and work devotedly for the good of society and the people."
be perfectly united in mind and thought?
Really?
United?
People sat next to each other in services for decades and then Tkach came along.
Suddenly, people discovered that they really DIDN'T believe the same things as the people sitting next to them.
Perhaps we should recast the Scripture:
I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you appear to agree with one another in what you say and that while there be divisions among you, you must appear perfectly united in mind and thought to those in this world because the ministers want to keep you together for their salaries' sake.
Im very confused.
You see, if you have been around the COG universe for any length of time, virtually EVERYONE has been disfellowshipped , marked or "left the true church" at some point in their COG career. It is virtually universal.
Certainly that includes anyone who was part of the WCG who left it in the early 90s, and includes anyone who has left one splinter for another.
So, since I am a good loyal COG member, I am adhering to the disfellowshipping rules of all the COGs combined, and will hereby NOT associate with any of you! ;-)
Well, darn it all -- I've tried and tried, and you'd think I'd have an excellent chance, but no, no ACoG has ever officially disfellowshipped me.
Hey, would one of you ACoGs fix this?!??!!! Make it public. Maybe you could send me an official letter or something.
It would be a badge of achievement.
As it is, I'm a non loser loser.
Make it official.
And if you can't disfellowship me, at least disfellowship my cat. You never know when Joseph Tcat, Senior might show up to services.
I was never officially disfellowshipped. I simply left and was listed for years as and inactive member. Maybe I still am somewhere on an old computer disc. All mafia-like authoritarian organizations have to maintain themselves through terror tactics, and when you're convinced that your eternal destiny resides in being a part of a specific organization, the terror potential is exponential.
All the fear is now gone because I've evolved into a humanist atheist. No God's or their "soldiers" can intimidate me now!
Well, you would think that the prevailing conditions in what passes for Armstrongism today would be enough to "prove" to people that if this is the next logical step, or if this is how it all ends up, it is living proof of Gamaliel's Theorem. What we watch unfold on a daily basis does not support the possibility that God expresses His authority through any of these groups.
If someone were indeed a guru commissioned by God to teach truth, that enlightened individual would have the loving persuasiveness to educate people out of and away from their individual dissenting mindsets. He would have the best information available, and would be highly gifted with effortless intelligence that people would automatically recognize and respect. All of this harsh exercise of authority, and insistence on unity would be completely unneccessary. What he said would come to pass, because it would not be based on appropriating an accumulation of ridiculous theories, or slanting what was read in the news.
The equivalent of angrily running around, yelling "I'm an Apostle, dammit, respect me and unify behind me." is a subliminal admission that a critical factor is missing from the equation. The whole purpose of the Old Testament was to prove that the raw exercise of authority does not change peoples' hearts and minds, which are the places where disunity begins. A buddy of mine has written some excellent science fiction novels based on a future alliance of planets appropriating the antiquated "values" of the American Confederacy, and reintroducing them into the cultures of participating planets, thus setting off a series of interplanetary "civil" wars. That is a fairly accurate representation of what HWA did on a smaller, more mundane scale, with the antiquated precepts from the Old Covenant dispensation. And, his heirs wonder that there could be disunity??? That people might rebel, and want line item veto for some of the more ridiculous and draconian teachings???
It boggles the mind. There is a mindless mindset at work, but be careful in expressing that. I discovered this morning that the Youtube moderators delete comments which allude to "cult zombies".
BB
This might indeed be a hate site.
This indeed may not be a hate site.
Ad hominem arguments aside there are too many facts presented and generally hate sites have a dearth of them.
But if you are talking about lies, they are infuriating and we hate them. Would that make us a hate site?
The LCG is a cult.
This is par for the course.
As long as you participate, expect cult behavior.
Let's try this another way.
What in this particular post do you feel are lies?
Does this sermonette not exist?
Does it not say what is quoted/attributed?
If someone were indeed a guru commissioned by God to teach truth, that enlightened individual would have the loving persuasiveness to educate people out of and away from their individual dissenting mindsets. He would have the best information available, and would be highly gifted with effortless intelligence that people would automatically recognize and respect. All of this harsh exercise of authority, and insistence on unity would be completely unneccessary. What he said would come to pass, because it would not be based on appropriating an accumulation of ridiculous theories, or slanting what was read in the news.
Well, if you take the Bible at its word, you just disqualified the Apostle Paul. In which case, why bother with Christianity at all?
I find much to love in the surrounding universe, and in God's entire rainbow of humanity. But, I do hate ignorance, because it hurts people and sets them back in their journeys. And I hate it when self-appointed authorities use force and coercion to enforce ignorance.
But, Armstrongism is not just ignorance. It is philosophical and theological excrement, which portrays Father God as if He behaved like Satan. A close synonym for Armstrongism would be blasphemy. I surely wish my parents had never stepped in the HWAcaca.
BB
In the spirit of being helpful, I have the following suggestions for LCG.
1. Be certain to advertise your position on disfellowshipment.
2. Make the position on disfellowshipment the very first thing you make clear to prospective members; in fact, have them sign a document that they have read and understand your position.
3. Periodically cover the topic in your TV show.
4. Periodically cover the topic in your Magazine.
5. Publish the booklet, "The Plain Truth about Disfellowshipping".
6. And this is really important if you want to obey the Scripture to publicly mark those who cause division: On your TV show, reserve a time, say, 5 minutes, dedicated to publicly marking those who have left the LCG, so that everyone who watches the program world wide can avoid them.
And when Roderick Meredith dies, we can all sit back and watch the fun.
Anonymous at 2:17 pm says in part, " you just disqualified the Apostle Paul. In which case, why bother with Christianity at all?"
You're catching on, anon. Like Allen C. Dexter, I disqualified the Apostle Paul a long time ago, and after that I did not bother with Christianity--at least not with the organizational and supernatural parts. The parts of Christianity that are worthwhile don't require Paul's imprimatur or a church hierarchy or a belief in magic talking snakes and resurrections.
In fact the parts of Christianity that are worthwhile can be summed up in the two commandments of secular christianity, with a small "c":
1) Never take up more than one parking space.
2) Always be kind to drunks.
The wording is facetious, but the underlying meaning is dead serious. Taken metaphorically, they say we should not arrogate unto ourselves more than our fair share of resources and that we should extend a little tolerance to people when they screw up. Everybody screws up, and we can't expect our trespasses to be forgiven if we deal too harshly with those who trespass against us.
(I gotta admit this second commandment is easy to see in principle, but hard to follow in practice. Is the kindest act to give the screw-ups hot coffee and let them crash on our sofa or to go the tough love route and send them to rehab? Never a simple decision.)
To go along with what Retired Prof said, if you objectively read the books attributed to Paul, they sound an awful lot like the barrages unleashed by these cultists. Paul was very obviously at odds with everyone back in Jerusalem and had to deal with some rebellion in his own ranks from time to time. It's this objective reading that people of faith never get into until they start questioning their faith like we did.
This blog posts about most of the COG's to see the negative reactions so they can determine who from which COG is reading this over exagerated dribble.
Well since there is no negative reaction to this over exagerated misinformed post and most others on this blog, it seems that the same old "oh I've been hard done by a COG" self righteous posters who need to just get over it and move on in life, are the only ones reading it and hardly any member of any COG.
You are all obsessed and maybe seeing a quack might help instead of writing comments for therapy.
I really do feel sorry for you all...it's sad real sad! People have bad experiences in every church that ever existed, it's part of life as man's not perfect, and neither are you, so stop taking everything out of context and be happy.
"People have bad experiences in every church that ever existed, it's part of life as man's not perfect, and neither are you, so stop taking everything out of context and be happy."
Translation: "Why not change your priorities?
I've come to the conclusion that there are two sorts of people. Those who care about what's really true and factual, and those who just want to feel a particular way: some want to feel special, others want to feel a sense of security, and yet others want to feel a sense of shared ritual and identity. Whatever "truth" must be swallowed in order to achieve these feelings matters not. That this identity is false, or that they are not actually special or secure, does not even register. Facts are simply not a priority such that questions of this nature ever even arise. The lies repeated by ancient writers in modern churches are "white" lies, because they are told for a "good" purpose--they are a public service--so that people who are so inclined may feel the way they want to feel.
So, by all means, yes, I should stop taking things "out of context" (expecting that "truth" = facts), I should rejigger my priorities so that "feelings" are my #1 priority, and I should just allow these "white" lies to make me feel "happy."
This is about the equivalent of a lobotomy, btw.
I expect Anon 5:21's comment is also the product of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
Meredith must be preparing the troops for the BIGGEST PURGE IN LCG HISTORY. Stalin would understand.
1). The Journal, and other pro-Armstrong sites are the best places to troll if one wants to see who is still with the splinters.
2). People from the splinters who post here usually do it anonymously, drive-by style. In most cases you can't tell who they are or what splinter they attend. The majority of these are not particularly articulate, or insightful.
3). If you think most of the regular posters here come just to moan and groan over stuff that happened years or in some cases decades ago, you are missing the point. Of course, that aspect does come into the picture from time to time to add foundation, or a personal dimension. But the main thrust is that we are somewhat like the Jewish activists who came out of the holocaust, who tracked down and held accountable many of their tormentors and are now proclaiming "never again". We want to prevent others who may even now be considering Armstrongism as actually being viable from suffering the same types of abuses that caused 50% of all the people who ever became part of the movement to leave. Bringing into the open the things which the splinters would prefer were swept under the carpet does not fly well with the naive and willfully ignorant ones who have somehow found reason to excuse HWA for his failures, narcissism, and cruelty, ignored all of the evidence refuting the theories he embraced, and are still imagining that somehow his prophecies which they don't like to call prophecies will eventually come to pass.
In short, there is something wonderfully noble about tireless dedication to exposing and bringing down a false and toxic cult. Are we an effective factor? Do we cause angst amongst the leaders, and force them to take introspection and modify their approaches? Do powerful outsiders listen, and cut off opportunities and services to the splinters? Is more information readily available which directly counters the false foundations on which Armstrongism was built, such as British Israelism? The best answers to those questions would be found in the growth statistics, and the demographics of the splinters.
Herbert W. Armstrong has become the OJ Simpson or Robert Blake of the religious world. Googling his name brings up such massive negative material that it overwhelms anything positive the man may have accomplished in his so-called ministry. If you have ever read Vance Packard's 'The Hidden Persuaders', a book which describes the mind control advertising methods of HWA's era, you will begin to comprehend this man's methodology, and how he took control of the lives and finances of unsuspecting people, enslaving the people who came to him for spiritual guidance, and providing a life of abundance in pain.
If you don't like that, know this. We're not going away.
Herbert fucked his daughter anon.
Read the red part over and over until you understand. The man was a loser!
http://tinyurl.com/Herbert-fucked-his-daughter
And now it's time to map the ACoG leaders to Hubris Syndrome.
If you think your Armstrongist leader / founder is perfectly sound, this should certainly give you pause: He's not and people need to be warned.
stop taking everything out of context and be happy
Not seeing how that works.
The jurors at the Ronald Weinland trial where they found him guilty of 5 counts of felony Income Tax Evasion should have just let him have a free pass? The Justice Department had a non sequitur moment?
And Keven Owen Dean who is wanted to stand trial on aggravated child molestation and 12 additional charges should just get a free pass? Authorities say he avoided the first trial by "running from the courtroom," an offense for which the judge issued a bench warrant. Dean is out of jail on a $75,000 bond.
The stalkers, fondlers, pedophiles are people we should just ignore, especially since many of us have family members who are impacted because they are subject to this in the Cult of Armstrong Mafia cult churches?
We should ignore cults? We should ignore cults which have a negative impact on society?
It's fairly clear that Nomore.org" disagrees with you.
It's past the time that law enforcement is called in for the crimes that are covered up by the ACoG leaders. Dr. Phil has done his part in exposing Yisrael Hawkins of the House of Yahweh -- maybe he should just stop taking things out of context and just be happy.
And furthermore, this site is one of those 'infotainment' outlets more dedicated to show how funny and stupid Armstrongism is. Many people get a laugh out of it.
What's not happy about that?
Meredith confirms there is something afoot. At the 32:17 mark of his sermon, "I've asked Mr. McNair and Mr. League to get all the information on many of these things".
Someone commented about the increase in pro-Armstrong, pro ACOG contributions. That is most likely part of the final death rattle for Armstrongism. Obviously some people see the writing on the wall, and feel that their lifestyle and beliefs are threatened, and are reacting to that. Couple more splinters, a couple of more arrests, continued disintegration of the EU with its financial mess, further commercialization of Petra, emerging energy independence for the USA, and scientific management of ebola, and there you go. ACOG members have already been programmed to believe that the Repub takeover of Congress means that the Lord hath delayed the apocalypse. Bye bye, Mr. American Incest Pie, your chauffeur drove your Caddy to the levee, but the levee was dry......
I mentioned elsewhere that it seems an increasing number of COGers keep showing up on this blog to make comments. It's a start, because it means they're reading what people here have to say, even if they believe they're countering people's heretical viewpoints with their responses.
On another thread, for example, a poster writes about being a current COG member and a strong follower of the doctrines of HWA, before going on to say it's possible to remain objective and admit to the mistakes and abuses of Armstrongism's history.
That's all we can ask. There is much information that many current COGers don't know, information their organizations would never tell them. They might come here with their preconceived notions and carefully worded defenses, but, over time, if they're honest they'll begin to have difficulty defending the indefensible.
If not, they'll disappear. So welcome them in. It's a sign the site is reaching a key demographic and is having a significant impact.
"Well since there is no negative reaction to this over exagerated misinformed post and most others on this blog..."
Since you didn't bother to say what was over-exaggerated, misinformed or otherwise untrue, its hard to take anything else you said as anything more than griping on your part.
Byker Bob
Can you contact me at the email address at the top of the front page of this blog? I have some one who wants to contact you.
G
The open discussion on this site is very much a positive thing. The more people that post comments that are members of the COG's the better. Evil flourishes when open opinions are squashed.
barf!, barf!
Rod McNair commented saying: "..."...we do not force people to stay in the church."..."
Well, that is a good thing, after all didn't Rod McNair leave "the church" when he exited from the Worldwide Church of God, which he considered for decades to be the "one true Church?" Same thing applies to those like Doug Winnail.
They knew the WCG "rules of engagement," and amongst other things when they left the WCG they were no longer ministers b/c they left their ministerial credentials behind in Pasadena.
And Rod McNair intends to be one who will be "...reinforcing the rule that the ministers have been placed OVER the members?"
Where did Rod McNair come from? Rod Meredith and Doug Winnail are no longer ministers (unless they somehow anointed themselves...like Bob Thiel has done), and if this is true, then where does Rod McNair stand?
On an organization built on sand?
Is it possible that all of these professing ministers have exalted themSELVES? If yes, then Jesus Christ has some words for them:
"For whosoever exalteth himSELF shall be abased..." Luke 14:11
Perhaps there is good reason why those associated with all of these splinter "man-made" organizations are struggling like they are striving to sustain themSELVES.
John
People within the Cult of Herbert Armstrong Mafia do not seem to understand to what extent prophecy is an integral part of the cult religion. If you take that away, people go away -- both the WCG (now GCI) and David Hulme's group (when he attempted to discredit British Israelism) has proved that.
The problem is that the prophecies generated by Herbert Armstrong and his hirelings have consistently failed and proved totally unreliable as a guide to the future.
I remember well early in the 1990s when a friend I hadn't seen for awhile visited the WCG and told me that "prophecy is back!", referring to Roderick Meredith bolting from Worldwide to establish Global. I talked with a woman later in United and she told me she preferred LCG "because it has better prophecy".
The promises are empty: If your prophecy never gets fulfilled and, in fact, fails, you have no basis of faith in anything else within the religion.
This is a lesson that the Armstrongists just don't get: Their leaders lie to them and take their money, continue to make promises they can't keep and nothing happens.
You can claim your religion is better than anything else anyone can come up with, but it's totally pathetic: It's not working and it never will and you are pouring immense resources down a gopher hole.
it has been my experience that those whose primary interest is prophecy are the weakest members of the Church....(IF they are truly members, that is)
living day to day in a manner pleasing to God is infinately more important.
This sermon is a threat. They're literally making "an offer you can't refuse," like Truman's Potsdam Declaration. It's an ultimatum for unconditional surrender, or else!
Or else what? For the emeshed and entrenched Armstrongist, the ones who are using religion's death-denying function to it's full potential, and are incapable of viewing the world through any other lens than through the extremely narrow lens that filters out all facts that would debunk Armstrongism, this sermon is a warning that the "nuclear option" exists, and LCG's leadership has their finger on "the button."
For those enthralled by Rod Meredith, to be "disfellowshiped" (excommunicated in catholic parlance) is to be sent straight to the lake of fire, do not pass GO, do not collect $200. For the leadership of Armstrongist cults, this is the biggest gun in their arsenal. To whip it out and threaten to use it means that the leadership of LCG are experiencing no small amount of fear right now.
As one who has seen just a couple of Armstrongist cult splits so far, this sort of rhetoric means the rivening of LCG is well underway, plans and bank accounts for new cults with slightly different names have already been set up, and the membership has begun to polarize. It is my guess, that LCG will fragment sometime in 2015, with or without Rod Meredith's death.
Of course, unlike the close of WW2, where nobody knew about the truly devastating nuclear bomb, everybody knows about LCG's "nuclear option" and that it's actually just someone telling you they don't want to be your friend anymore—hardly "nuclear"—not even something to write home about!
Given this threat, will people surrender unconditionally? Some of them will. Some of them won't. That's why they call it a "split." The funny thing is, for those who it doesn't work on this time around, it just might work on them next time around! It's just so strange the way that extremely narrow Armstrongist lens functions.
If you hate all things COG you have to return to the gayness of lies like xmas.
Gayness of Christmas? It's obvious you are a Merdithite. Effeminate Roddy is a homophobe and hates christmas too.
Guess I will go join the gay men's chorus and sing Christmas carols this year. What fun!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think it's any accident that cults forbid having close relationships outside of the church, like at work, school, family, and neighbors. Since you don't really need social skills to make friends in an ACOG (the snoops glom on, like it or not!) often members' ability to make friends atrophies. So, if a person leaves, or gets disfellowshipped (again), the loneliness can sometimes draw them back into the fold. And, of course, "they" know that, because this atmosphere is by design.
I agree with the Anonymouse who stated that people in Armstrongism because of prophecy probably aren't converted. HWA's take on prophecy spawns "save your ass" Christianity. It means that a person has succumbed to coercion. But the reality check should be, how can there actually even be Armstrongism without coercion?
One fairly recent positive change in Armstrongism is that most members by now realize that the HWA prophecy mold ain't gonna happen. So, people actually can concentrate on daily life, instead of nervously reading the newspaper, hoping it doesn't happen, and then feeling guilty.
BB
Anon@5:42
Gay Christmas? This will infuriate your little mind to no end.....I put the very first Christmas tree up in the Hall of Administration in Pasadena years ago. It was 9 feet tall and covered in gold ornaments and glittered pine cones and it looked faaaaaaaabulous! SNAP! SNAP! :-).
Oh, I also put a beautiful nativity scene under the gold lettered inscription in the Ambassador Auditorium lobby between the two candelabra's. I set that scene off with garland coming down the stairwells with gold ornaments. It too looked faaaaaaabulous! SNAP! SNAP!
LOL! Armstrongites say some of the stupidest things!
"....the gayness of lies like Christmas."
Redfox712 said...
Meredith was very heavy handed when Garner Ted Armstrong was kicked out. Here is one example of him trying to crudely intimidate WCG members to not join Garner Ted Armstrong's group.
"Mr. Armstrong has reminded us again that we are to disfellowship any members who attend GTA's [Garner Ted Armstrong's] campaigns, church services or other meetings. Some of our weaker members apparently do not realize that this man is in direct rebellion against God and His government! We must not allow them, or ourselves, to rationalize about this matter, to try to 'help the underdog,' or in any other way lend support to one whose gross immorality, whose long standing "play acting" and hypocrisy, and whose direct insubordination to the Government of God has long been and is now a source of confusion and DIVISION among God's people. So, as per Mr. Armstrong's instruction, I charge and exhort every one of you faithful ministers of the living Christ to explain this in no uncertain terms to your members, to warn them about this cause of division and then to disfellowship any who consort with GTA or any of his fellows."
(Roderick C. Meredith, Pastor's Report, May 21, 1979, pp. 1-2.)
What seems to be your deep psychological and spiritual problem with this, Redfox?
Roderick C. Meredith was not being "heavy handed" at all when Garner Ted Armstrong was FINALLY kicked out of the Worldwide Church of God by his own father Herbert W. Armstrong. HWA and RCM were just doing what probably should have been done a lot sooner. HWA wrote afterwards in a June 8, 1979 letter to Brethren and Co-Workers about how he had privately disfellowshiped GTA on three previous occasions but had always let him come back as soon as he claimed to have repented. In fact, HWA had always tried to cover up what GTA had done, forgive him, and set him up as his successor to lead the WCG. This time, spoiled brat GTA went to the media to try to cause trouble, and his ouster became open and permanent—since he would no longer even pretend to repent.
Now, Redfox, should you not rather think that it was ABOUT TIME that Garner Ted Armstrong's “gross immorality” and “play acting” and “hypocrisy” and being a “source of confusion and DIVISION among God's people” FINALLY caught up with him? Someone said that GTA claimed to have had sex with 200 Ambassador College sluts. Now Bedfox, THAT would have been pretty “crude” of GTA to “intimidate” 200 AC girls into having sex with him! Are you suggesting, Pedofox, that GTA should have been allowed to continue to get away with his bad behavior? If HWA and RCM had said and done nothing about GTA would you be happy now? Are you sure that you want to side with those who follow and support spoiled perverts and predators like GTA? Are you sure that you are not all mixed up and do not have things exactly backwards, Redfox?
Roderick Meredith is a liar, his Manpower Papers shows him to be a gossip, dismissive, arrogant, he is a false prophet of ~60 years, his prophecies have failed, he actually teaches verifiable heresy, he wrecked a church -- Global -- through his ego and it goes on and on.
So the question is, why isn't he disfellowshipped?
It's preposterous for LCG to talk about the topic.
I still havent seen anyone tell us what exactly is untruthful about this post. Put yo money where yo mouf is, people.
reformer mestwayIt totally cracks me up when ANYONE talks about Teddy's disfellowshipment, yet talks about THEIR church as if their church's leader isn't worthy of the same.
Surely, Roderick Meredith and Rod McNair are both more than worthy of being disfellowshipped.
Ted and the two Rods are all more than worthy of being thrown in the same pot, regardless of any protestations otherwise.
I didn't know that Christmas was a gay event.
Is that like the biblical story of the male God marrying all those male "brides"?
I guess I can't blame Father God for wanting sex 'any which way'.
After all, it's been thousands of years since his divorce from Asherah.
Anon, November 18, 2014 at 7:30 AM
Redfox just reports the facts. Its up to you to ignore them. Go give Herbie a blowjob in your dreams. He is after all, your god!
Who is that good-looking minister in that pic and how can I meet him?
I'm not Redfox, nor am I "all mixed up" to realize that Herbert Armstrong's “gross immorality” of him repeatedly raping his daughter and constantly lying to members (and many 'other problems') were just cause to remove him from his own church and kick him and his teachings to the curb- both literally and figuratively.
Who is that good-looking minister in that pic and how can I meet him?
He's on "Christian Mingle With My Dingle Dot Com", and enjoys collecting tithes and plagiarizing religious writings, and long walks on the beach with a bottle of Harvey's Bristol Cream in one hand and a bottle of Dom Pérignon champagne in the other.
His son is a decorated policeman- Officer Dingle .
Anonymous (November 18, 7:30 am),
You can read Meredith's words for yourself here:
http://www.herbert-armstrong.org/PGR/1979%200521%20PR.pdf
Meredith was talking about purging your fellow WCG lay members, the people you sat with to listen to the minister and talked with after services, to scare WCG members into not joining Garner Ted Armstrong's group.
Garner Ted Armstrong was disfellowshipped in late June 1978. These words of Meredith's were written nearly a year afterwards.
Meredith was not talking about punishing Garner Ted Armstrong here. Garner Ted Armstrong was no longer a member or minister of WCG so he was under no obligation to follow any rules of WCG.
I can only wonder how you thought my comment was somehow a defense of Garner Ted Armstrong's adulteries. I said no such thing. I could not because Meredith was talking about purging WCG members, your follow believers that you sat with and talked to, because he and his collaborators feared some of those WCG members might join Garner Ted Armstrong's group. By the way that is also an infringement of their freedom of religion. At the same time WCG was pleading that the receivership infringed their freedom of religion and hypocritically WCG was infringing the freedom of religion of some of their lay members.
What I did not like about Meredith's words was that Meredith seemed to have no regard that WCG lay members who were not going to join Garner Ted Armstrong's group might suffer because of that draconian order.
What really disgusted was Meredith telling WCG ministers to ignore their own consciences in order to disfellowship any WCG lay members (the people you sat with and talked with) if a minster thought they were about to join Garner Ted Armstrong's group or even just attending one of his meetings. Restricting WCG members from attending one of those meetings infringes their freedom of religion and the WCG ministry had no legal right to order them in that way.
What a terrible thing this was. Ordering people to ignore their own conscience. Making them do things that violate what they think is right. That is what discussed me.
It also should be mentioned that Meredith knew about Garner Ted Armstrong's adulteries long before it became widespread knowledge. But he chose to just ignore them for years. So I do not know why you pretend that I sympathized or somehow justified Garner Ted Armstrong's adulteries when HWA and Meredith did so for years.
And to those who decided to speak up for me, thank you. I appreciate that you took your time to speak up for me.
I'm afraid I did not notice that comment until quite recently. That is why I had not responded to it earlier.
One thing that was done was to take down the license plate numbers of cars in the parking lot where Garner Ted was speaking, and disfellowship the owners.
"One thing that was done was to take down the license plate numbers of cars in the parking lot where Garner Ted was speaking, and disfellowship the owners."
The same thing was done to people who attended Ernest Martin's speaking engagements.
What many people don't realize is that the original WCG practiced McCarthyism to a large extent on their own members. There was no due process, or right of appeal, either. Taking the example as to how their church behaved, members used the same technique on their children, This is why people who have experienced Armstrongism must deal with the lifelong problem of paranoia. Every little thing that happens, current and ex members expect some authority figure to swoop down and yank the rug out from under them. What is worse, is that this is the way these folks believe their God is!!!
BB
Redfox666 [name changed slightly to protect the guilty] said... things like [bold emphasis mine]...
"Meredith was talking about purging your fellow WCG lay members, the people you sat with to listen to the minister and talked with after services....”
“I could not because Meredith was talking about purging WCG members, your follow believers that you sat with and talked to....”
“What really disgusted was Meredith telling WCG ministers to ignore their own consciences in order to disfellowship any WCG lay members (the people you sat with and talked with) if a minster thought they were about to join Garner Ted Armstrong's group or even just attending one of his meetings.”
“What a terrible thing this was. Ordering people to ignore their own conscience. Making them do things that violate what they think is right. That is what discussed me.”
First, a friendly warning for Redfox: Do NOT get me started writing about all those rotten, malicious characters who tried to pass themselves off as “my fellow WCG lay member believers, the people I sat with and talked with....” It was a big mistake to think that everyone in the WCG was a true Christian with the Holy Spirit. In hindsight, it seems more likely that many of them were sent and directed by evil spirits.
After the WCG apostasy by the Tkaches, it was also a big mistake to think that all the splinter groups were standing up for the truth and were good. Not so at all. The apostasy and following explosion of splinter groups just revealed the incredible array of wrong ideas and wrong attitudes that so many people had been secretly harboring.
HWA and RCM were NEITHER preventing people from going with GTA if they wanted to, NOR ordering them to ignore their conscience. HWA and RCM WERE preventing fools and rebels from listening to and supporting bad guys like GTA while still hanging out at the WCG and causing confusion and division within the WCG. This really frustrated GTA's sneaky, deceitful, wicked troublemakers. Everyone was free to go to whichever church he wanted to, but was NOT allowed to be double minded, or insincere, or conscienceless, or a source of confusion and division within the WCG, or a secret saboteur for GTA, or to attend two different churches at the same time as a spreader of gossip.
PICK A SIDE, YOU WIMPS!!! (Helpful hint: GTA was always the WRONG side.)
Dude, these people were attempting to process a totally new situation. To listen objectively to both sides in order to "prove all things". But, alas. They were not allowed the freedom to do this, or to discuss it amongst the only friends they were permitted to have. HWA and Meredith forced the issue, made their decision for them.
We know today that there were no right sides in groups based on or influenced by Armstrongism. I rejected all of the sides at that time, and made enemies by not listening to any of them, even though many were excited and engaged by it all, and wanted to share. But to me, it was all like comparison shopping for diarrhea.
Anon 6:00 PM said-
"...those rotten, malicious characters who tried to pass themselves off as 'my fellow WCG lay member believers, the people I sat with and talked with....' It was a big mistake to think that everyone in the WCG was a true Christian with the Holy Spirit. In hindsight, it seems more likely that many of them were sent and directed by evil spirits.
...
it was also a big mistake to think that all the splinter groups were standing up for the truth and were good. Not so at all. The apostasy and following explosion of splinter groups just revealed the incredible array of wrong ideas and wrong attitudes that so many people had been secretly harboring.
...
HWA and RCM WERE preventing fools and rebels from listening to and supporting bad guys like GTA while still hanging out at the WCG and causing confusion and division within the WCG. This really frustrated GTA's sneaky, deceitful, wicked troublemakers. Everyone was free to go to whichever church he wanted to, but was NOT allowed to be double minded, or insincere, or conscienceless, or a source of confusion and division within the WCG, or a secret saboteur for GTA, or to attend two different churches at the same time as a spreader of gossip."
Wow. Juuuust wow! After 36 years, you're still bitter about the GTA split? And after 36 years of schisms ad infinitum, you still haven't figured out that:
1) Just because someone has a different perspective, a different explanation of events, does not automatically make YOUR perspective and explanation of these events "right" or their perspective and explanation automatically "wrong," not to mention that it doesn't automatically make them "rotten," "malicious," "sneaky," "deceitful," "wicked," "conscienceless," "insincere," "troublemakers," or "directed by evil spirits." None of these determinations are objective, but are merely relative and subjective opinion.
2) Because it is the nature of schisms, there were those in the GTA camp with the opposing perspective and explanation of those events, who at the time thought you were "rotten," "malicious," "sneaky," "deceitful," "wicked," "conscienceless," "insincere," "troublemakers," and "directed by evil spirits" too, although now, 36 years later, all those people are either dead, can't remember, or have decided to let go of all that and forgive in favor of less fundamentalist, less subjective and less flat-out anti-Jesus ways of thinking about things. You are the last soldier, because the emperor surrendered a long, long time ago now.
3) In COG parlance, concepts such as "truth," "good," "wickedness," "sowing division," "rebellious," etc., are relative, not objective. In fact, every judgment and colorful descriptor I bolded from your quoted polemic is a matter of subjective opinion. For all COGs rail against "modern relativism," religion has ever been a source of relativism and bias.
4) Lots of COGers attend multiple splinters these days. This does not make them guilty of all the horrible things you are possessed to find them guilty of. Deceived? Sure, but no more than a catholic, muslim, hindu, or atheist.
5) If christianity were the "correct" perspective and explanation of every event ever (worldview), and not secular humanism, islam, the vedic traditions, etc., and it were even possible that there could be such a thing as "spirit" (whether "holy" or "evil") in the first place, NOBODY in Armstrongism, and ESPECIALLY NOT HWA, GTA or RCM, have EVER had any of the "holy" stuff, up to and including YOU and ME!
-W.T. Foxtrot
I believe that where people ended up, if they remained in Armstrongism, was all part of the individual mental personality contests that members conducted internally. After all, these are recognized as being personality cults.
The personality contest between HWA and GTA was never a fair one. GTA's sins and shortcomings had been revealed. But, there were several more years that people had to wait until HWA's equally bad or worse sins would come out. Look at what is happening to Bill Cosby right now. People are rethinking his entire life! This would have happened to both of the Armstrongs simultaneously, had it ever been a fair fight. To see and understand what might have happened in the aftermath, we have the example of Jim Bakker and his empire. He lost what became TBN in the process, and never regained even a small amount of his stature following his release from prison.
When the first splinters occurred in the mid-1970s, mostly driven by the liberals, I remember noticing that the changes "new leaders" were making were much too small to fix the huge set of problems that existed in the WCG. This was something so insidious, systemic and comprehensive that it couldn't be adjusted or fixed, and really needed to be abandoned and disbanded. Yet, later, when the huge changes were instituted, they proved to be equally ineffective.
It is very difficult and extremely expensive to clean and rehabillitate a toxic waste dump! And that is what Armstrongism is and was. HWA collected nearly every heresy that he could find, and fashioned them into his version of a church, and then applied the fear rhetoric which he learned in the advertising profession to market it. It seems all too obvious today that He did not see it as having any lifespan beyond his own. Basically, he got his, and he is one of those who succeeded in dying having had access to and being able to enjoy the most toys.
BB
-W.T. Foxtrot said...
“Wow. Juuuust wow! After 36 years, you're still bitter about the GTA split? And after 36 years of schisms ad infinitum, you still haven't figured out that: 1), 2), 3), 4), 5)"
W.T.F.??? Really?
Who is “bitter” about the GTA split? It was most unfortunate that GTA went bad, but since he did, good riddance. GTA blew a rare opportunity to do much good in the WCG and at AC, by using his privileged position in the WCG and at AC as an opportunity to do much evil. Now that you brought up the topic and got me thinking about it again, I am sincerely THANKFUL that I most certainly did NOT WASTE the past 36 years listening to GTA's babbling, which continued on even after his death by his son posting recordings of them on the Internet. My ears and head would really hurt by now if I had listened to GTA for the past 36 years. Anonymous at 12:29 AM suggested that it is possible that some people might have been “attempting to process a totally new situation. To listen objectively to both sides in order to 'prove all things'.” What really happened with them was that they were “ever learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.” In this particular case, I honestly do believe that HWA really was warning people away from GTA for their own good.
Yes, W.T.F. for what the f00k are you thinking?
The point is, which you still keep missing, is that all your judgmental entrenched Armstrongist rhetoric is prettymuch bullsh@t, and only appears to "make sense" from one highly questionable and less-than-reasonable perspective. From any other perspective, most of what you say is just absurd and ridiculous: the ramblings of a mind drunk with fundamentalist delusions. 'Tis a shame you're not capable of seeing things from more than one perspective...
I know you probably mean well, but your Armstrong-brand fundamentalism isn't doing you any favors. If there are arrays of "wrong ideas" and "wrong attitudes" you're not doing anything to put yourself above the rabble you're criticizing.
Now, mind you, I'm not defending the honor of GTA, RCM, or HWA. These and many more COG demagogues have demonstrated they're far less than honorable. No quibbles there. But "directed by evil spirits"? Seriously? Prove to me that such entities even exist. Then prove to me that anyone has ever been directed by one. While you're at it, you can prove to me that the "holy spirit" exists either.
I could hope that you would agree that HWA was a far, FAR less-than-honorable man. However, something tells me that you would not go along with that, because you say things like:
" In this particular case, I honestly do believe that HWA really was warning people away from GTA for their own good
...
I am sincerely THANKFUL that I most certainly did NOT WASTE the past 36 years listening to GTA's babbling, which continued on even after his death by his son posting recordings of them on the Internet. My ears and head would really hurt by now if I had listened to GTA for the past 36 years."
Sure, HWA was telling people to not go with GTA's disgusting cult and instead stay with his disgusting cult—for whose good? LOL!!!
Sure, listening to GTAcaca is a waste and makes your ears and head hurt, but listening to HWAcaca is delicious and makes you feel all warm inside? LOL!!!
Nobody here is a "wimp" for not picking the side of either HWA or GTA. Pot, meet kettle. 'Tis a shame you haven't learned to stop systematically ignoring the majority of indisputable facts that make Armstrongism (and religion too, but that's beyond the scope of this website) as unlikely to be veridical as the tooth fairy or santa claus. Instead, you're busy clinging to perspectives that are quaint and provincial, even by COG standards! LOL!!!
Oh, other people are "ever learning but never able to acknowledge 'the truth.'" But not you. You've got everything all figured out. The only thing here that's true is that you're just resolutely determined to be played by either one con-artist or another. Good luck with that! LOL!!!
-W.T. Foxtrot
-W.T. Foxtrot said...
“And after 36 years of schisms ad infinitum, you still haven't figured out that: 1), 2), 3), 4), 5)"
“Just because someone has a different perspective, a different explanation of events, does not automatically make YOUR perspective and explanation of these events 'right' or their perspective and explanation automatically 'wrong,' not to mention that it doesn't automatically make them 'rotten,' 'malicious,' 'sneaky,' 'deceitful,' 'wicked,' 'conscienceless,' 'insincere,' 'troublemakers,' or 'directed by evil spirits.'”
After the open apostasy in the WCG under the Tkaches in January 1995, hundreds of splinter groups formed. More are forming all the time as more splintering occurs. Over a decade ago a COG newspaper already listed over 300 splinters and slivers and thorns. The examples are too numerous to recount them all here. You could literally waste your entire life trying to keep up with them all. If some of these characters are not sneaky, deceitful, evil, wicked, mean, and nasty, then who is?
The FACT is that OVERWHELMING, ALL-ENCOMPASSING DECEIT, COMING FROM EVERY SIDE, really has confused, worn out, and defeated many WCG people.
Over a decade ago the UCG claimed it had already identified over 200 individuals who each thought that they were one of the Two Witnesses mentioned in the book of Revelation. While it is good to have a backup in case one of them cannot make it, this seems excessive.
David Bent Ariel (sp?) wanted to be a prophet, and once wanted to divide up the world with Gerald Blurry (sp?), but he ended up being just another homosexual who died of AIDs.
Ronald Wineland (sp?) called himself one of the Two Witnesses of Revelation. Someone else just called him a writer of fiction. And a court called him a tax cheat. He ended up being called a prison inmate, serving 3-1/2 years of time—real time, not just prophetic time. Easy time, but still time.
The so-called Independents turned out to be very dependent upon demons to lead each one of them into a different set of ideas than every other one of these so-called Independents. Like two silly and snooty women who cannot stand to appear at the same social function as each other dressed in the same identical outfit as each other, no two of these Independent morons can stand to appear at one of their Feast sites and observe the same days as each other.
No-man Edwards (sp?), once called “the leader of the leaderless Independents,” spent his efforts trying to teach against the hierarchical government ideas that HWA had taught. No. S. was willing to consider virtually anything and everything else under the sun except what HWA had taught. After stealing mailing lists from large groups, like the GCG that employed him, so he could try to acquire their followers for himself and teach them not to submit to anyone or obey anyone, he ended up without anyone following him or obeying him or supporting him. In an ironic sort of way, people had listened to him and practised what he preached.
CONTINUED BELOW
CONTINUED FROM ABOVE
James X Malm (sp?) did not pay attention in the WCG, did not learn, rebelled against HWA, tried to “think for himself,” helped to get his wife into sacred names nonsense, got divorced, got into calendar confusion himself, criticized HWA for always wanting more money, and now wants more money himself to help spread his gossip (not gospel) and nonsense.
Boob Thiel (sp?) studied Mayan, Kenyan, Catholic and other pagan prophecies until he called himself a prophet. He does not seem to be fooling any white people in the USA, but it looks like some black people in Africa might be trying to fool him. What a boo-boo.
Gerald Blurry (sp?) spent his time drinking beer and plagiarizing other people's prophetic guesses until he wanted to be the prophet mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy, even though it meant stabbing Jesus in the back, pulling the rug out from under His feet, and throwing Him overboard to pull off this great identity theft of the ages. Gerald always used HWA's name and photograph to try to attract former WCG people so that he could then teach them the exact, diametrical opposite of what HWA had taught on many important matters, such as stopping the preaching of the Gospel of the kingdom of God, and turning the hearts of fathers and their children against each other. Even though he has to subscribe to Stratfor to try unsuccessfully to figure out and guess the future, Gerald still insists that his sycophants call him “That Prophet.”
Roderick Meritdeath (sp?) goes on and on about how he spent countless thousands of hours with HWA and how much he loves and respects HWA, but that HWA was not the Elijah who was to come and restore all things as he had claimed to be, since HWA once banished RCM to Hawaii for a number of months. This even though RCM was on the 1982 Advisory Council of Elders that had presented HWA with a Steuben crystal gift called “The Cup of Elijah the Prophet.” And besides, RCM would like to be the Elijah himself and do a great work and shake the nations, but he is getting old and running out of time, and his LCG is not growing and will probably break up after he dies. RCM always goes on and on trying to change doctrines, while arguing all the while that he is not changing doctrines, and at the same time always claiming that HWA would approve of him growing in knowledge and changing doctrines and would be happy for him and pleased with his doctrinal changes, which he supposedly is not making.
The UCG is now run by former Tkach people who helped the Tkaches to change doctrines and destroy the WCG. After the WCG openly turned against virtually everything in January 1995, the WCG's income plummeted so fast and so much that these ministers were forced to form the UCG several months later so they could continue to collect paychecks. Having gone along with all the previous nine years of Tkach doctrinal changes up to the 1995 wipe-out, they are hesitant to make the final doctrinal change leap again. They might try to take the doctrinal changes a bit slower now so they don't lose their paychecks again right away. They hope that by welcoming in unconverted, godless, and immoral people, and by allowing them to run wild and out of control in the UCG, they can attract a crowd—a paycheck supporting crowd that can fund their retirements. But the sinful mob has a tendency to break up and split and form things like COGWA.
The FACT is that the apostasy really did reveal an astonishing array of wrong thinking, wrong doctrine, wrong administration, wrong ideas, wrong conduct, and wrong focus. Rebels, false teachers, flatterers, false prophets, axe-grinders, opportunists, politicians, and imposters of every conceivable kind really did emerge to take their place on the COG scene. Can we all say, LAODICEAN ERA?
"The FACT is that the apostasy really did reveal an astonishing array of wrong thinking, wrong doctrine, wrong administration, wrong ideas, wrong conduct, and wrong focus. Rebels, false teachers, flatterers, false prophets, axe-grinders, opportunists, politicians, and imposters of every conceivable kind really did emerge to take their place on the COG scene. Can we all say, LAODICEAN ERA?"
Look, you're still missing the point.
The point is, 'tis a pity you can't tell that your thinking, doctrine, ideas and focus are equally wrong! The whole cloth of Armstrongism is unsalvageably wrong.
I mean, church eras? Gimme a break! Prove to me that Laodicea is anything more than an ancient city. You can't. Prove to me that the author of the fouth (anonymous) gospel in the canon also wrote the apocalypse of John. You can't. It wouldn't even be in the canon if it weren't for the tireless campaigning of Athanasius since most of the church fathers didn't feel it belonged in the canon. And no, John didn't compile the canon like HWA's mythmaker, HLH said (lied, actually). All of this depends so completely on the ignoring of innumerable facts you wouldn't like, and adherence instead to the indoctrination of conjured up "factoids" (like facts, but aren't) to replace them.
Sure, the Tkach's are/were pretty scumbaggy. I didn't like what they did at the time. I now understand why they did what they did. I think they figured underhanded means justified what they thought were respectable ends. I also think there was no small proportion of personal greed in their mix too. But you say "apostasy" as though HWA wasn't already an apostate heretic and a greedy scumbag too!
Same goes for all the other self-appointed poobahs you listed tl;dr
The point is, I can see things from all of these guys perspectives. They are intelligible to me. I do not think that justifies them, but it does at least humanize them. I understand why they felt/feel that they were/are justified in pursuing their course of action. They are human beings with good points AS WELL as bad points. I think I can even see things from HWA's perspective, as a dead-inside Dexter-like character.
Believe it or not, I can even see things from your fundy-COG perspective. I understand the mistakes you're making, and I just wish you could stop making them. I'm trying to help you see things from MORE than just ONE parochial, misguided perspective. The ability to do that would mean you'd not need to keep making them.
A) You should tar HWA with the same brush as you tar all those other guys.
B) You should be prepared to tar yourself with the same brush too, as I did of myself when I repented of Armstrongism (christianity too, in fact).
It is not coincidence that three of the biggest products of Armstrongism, Meredith, Flurry, and David Pack, are each leading their own splinter groups. These three men are utterly insane, using false religion to stroke their ego. They learned well from their example and hero, Herbert W. Armstrong.
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