Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Fed Up Living Church of God Member Says: "All the Church of God ministry live in luxury on the backs of the people. "
Fed up LCG Member said...
All the Church of God ministry live in luxury on the backs of the people.
They suck off the church and live high on the hog.
I recall helping a minister to move. He had a semi-ranch with horses and stables and a 6 bedroom home in a very upscale neighborhood. I soon learned that all the ministry lived in upscale homes that most of us could never dream of owning.
It made me sick as I was driving a second hand car and there were 5 of us in a 3 bedroom , one bath 1000 sq ft home badly in need of repairs.
Paul and Peter etc worked for a living. These ministers suck off the congregation and then as the bible says feed the swill to the people.
They don't seek the lost or help the wounded, they simply blame the people for all the damage the ministry has done.
They even blame God for scattering the church when it was they themselves who did exactly that.
These guys are as phoney as can be.
March 25, 2015 at 1:06 PM
35 comments:
I just want you to know that you have the administration here in Charlotte in an uproar. There are some really pissed off people here upset that their shenanigans are being exposed. Keep up the good work! An LCG member.
If only the ministry would have the humility and the guts to admit the shortcomings and try to fix things.
Instead they take the chief seats at the feasts. We all know that. They take the finest rooms and sit alone in their cordoned off area.
They ignore the widows and orphans in their own groups leaving them to fend for themselves.
They blame the poor of the congregations for their poverty, yet demand payment.
Are there work parties set up to mow the lawns of the elderly? It is rare! Very rare.
Do they make time for the lonely?
Ezekiel puts it this way:
"Must my flock feed on what you have trampled and drink what you have muddied with your feet?"
Yet this is what they do so much so that God himself says he must come and seek his flock.
It isn't limited to Living.
It is endemic in all the groups. It is a way for them to make a living but hardly a calling they take with genuine sincerity and seriousness and yet they must if they wish to be Christian.
Each little group changes doctrine and practice to suit their own ideas thus furthering division in the church. And people leave seeking equity and real Christianity.
Real Christianity which is based on mercy, justice, love, kindliness, giving and the love of our dear Savior Jesus Christ.
Remember him ministry?
He died for you and your congregation. That is how valuable people are that God would die for them!
How dare you devalue them. Where is your servant leadership? Whose feet are you washing?
I am in tears writing this because I so dearly want them to change.
I remember many years ago when I believed God was with LCG I watched a sermon by Roderick C. Meredith and he said that if someone within LCG ("the church") manages to advance himself by getting a new car or something like that then we should not complain but rather when one wins we all win. Or at least words to that effect.
But when a LCG minister manage to live a good life and LCG lay members see this knowing that the LCG minister is living off of the money LCG members give at great expense no wonder they are distressed and aggrieved that they sacrificed while their leaders have the time of their lives.
Let's just hope an outraged Rod can't help himself except to use more sermon time directing more LCG members to look up this blog!
'we should not complain but rather when one wins we all win. Or at least words to that effect.'
The meredith socialism experiment known as communism.
Ezekiel 16:49
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
Oh, dear. And we know what happened to Sodom.
What will become of Charlotte and her false prophet?
New Television Property Reality Show Coming Soon...
FLIPPING (off) CHARLOTTE, NC. !
"If only the ministry would have the humility and the guts to admit the shortcomings and try to fix things. Instead they take the chief seats at the feasts. We all know that. They take the finest rooms and sit alone in their cordoned off area...It isn't limited to Living. It is endemic in all the groups."
But what Fed up LCG Member might not realize, is that Rod Meredeth, as head of Church Administration and boss of all the ministers during the 1960's, IS RESPONSIBLE for CREATING and ENGINEERING that ELITIST ministerial subculture to begin with! It is endemic in all the groups because it was ingrained in the entire WCG ministry by ROD MEREDITH way back in the old days.
Yes, it may be endemic in all the groups, but if ministerial elitism is what you're looking for, then go to LCG, because that's gonna be GROUND ZERO for ministerial elitism.
Of course these cog ministers won't change anything. Maximum pay for a minimum work and no accountability. Five star accommodation all the time. The funny thing is the congregation meets in poor community or school hall when if these ministers just go down a star or two for their accommodations, the whole assembly could have a better meeting hall. They are a bunch of parasites. The whole lot of them.
James said, "The meredith socialism experiment known as communism."
MY COMMENT - Nail meet hammer, James!
While the Worldwide Church of God taught there would still be private ownership in the wonderful world of tomorrow otherwise known as the Millennium (biblical reference to everyone having their own fig tree), in practice the Armstrong Churches of God practice corporate Church socialism. There is Dave Pack demanding everyone to liquidate their assets and send it all in so he can continue building his HQ compound. And there is the financial demands that Herbert Armstrong himself made on Church membership for "the final gun lap" - all so little Joey Tkach could inherit the Church and its assets, change the doctrines and become a multi-millionaire to name a couple of examples.
Just like Socialism, Armstrong Corporate Church Socialism ALWAYS has a few at the top living the life of luxury while the masses of dumb sheep tithe slaves live in poverty or near poverty to support the religious guru head of their Armstrong Church franchise - be it Dave Packatolla, the idiot Rod Meredith, Gerald Flurry, etc.
Like in Socialism, there is little to no upward mobility among the masses in the Armstrong Churches of God. Cronyism and nepotism provides the only opportunity to tap into the tithe slave income stream. Thus, we have Jim Meredith of no real skill or biblical inheritance slated to be the heir of Living Church of God - he was just lucky to be the idiot Rod Meredith's son; Likewise, Stephen Flurry is slated to inherit his father's Church franchise.
Frankly, any of the Armstrong Churches of God would do much better by reaching down into its own laity and selecting among its rank and file members the replacements for their Pastor Generals. If Herbert Armstrong had done so, there would still be a Worldwide Church of God today - probably reformed.
Of course, it won't be the first example of the Worldwide Church of God and its successor wannabes not practicing what they preach - private property rights and individual personal salvation in the wonderful world of tomorrow versus corporate Church Socialism with threats of eternal Lake of Fire damnation in the Church world of today.
Richard
If LCG were governed by a board of directors that actually had the power to function, much of this would not be happening. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely.
Proverbs 15:22, Proverbs 11:14. It's as simple as that!
A board might set appropriate salaries, monitor and curb nepotism, and facilitate members' right of appeal as part of due process. These issues, if I understand correctly, are what is causing the majority of the problems within LCG.
If there is any good news for our new visitors, it would seem to be that it is possible these days to go independent, if one desires to still keep the doctrines, or to restudy everything independently and reach different conclusions. There really is no particular importance associated with any specific "leader". Not a single one has been particularly blessed as some sort of exemplary standout. The leaders have continuously splintered, led their flocks astray, and have exploited the members. Best to have your own direct connection with Father God and Jesus Christ. We are all kings and priests!
Anyone who attends church and pays tithes does get a vote. You vote with your tithes, and with your feet! That is all the power you really need in order to make a difference.
BB
You have started something of a revolution here just by showing the photo of the Merediths' luxury homes, any chance of showing the other cog' top huchos' houses like Kubik, Franks, Holloday, etc? Pictures are more effective than any words to show the voiceless, downtrodden members of cogs who have been scared off their wits for so many years how the elite Ambasssador trained "ministers" are really having the times of their lives with the tithes they are sacrificing for the "work" (to support the ministers' very comfortable lifestyles) at the members' expense.
Sure I will post them. Someone needs to send me the pictures or addresses and I can look them up. Note I will not publish the addresses though.
Byker Bob:"Anyone who attends church and pays tithes does get a vote. You vote with your tithes, and with your feet! That is all the power you really need in order to make a difference."
I'm quite certain that the 'authorities' of Armstrongism have never considered to approach "church" as a hobby. You would think that "church" would be approached with even more "devotion of spirit" and zeal and without any concern for monetary gain. When I was involved in aiki-jitsu, my dues were only 20 bucks a month. Let's see, 3 classes a week(2 hr classes on weeknights and a weekend class that could last from 2.5 to 4 hrs). Also, I should mention that the average class size was usually less than seven. None of us made any money from the time invested, including sensei. We did it out of love for the subject matter. Just about any hobby is like this, like for example Lionel trains to stamp collecting. COG's have no passion or love for the subject matter. Oh sure, they will lust for the entitlements and powerful positions that feed their wallet or vanity, but to demonstrate and teach by example "good character". Nope. Not a chance.
the drive-by philosopher
A little side note here, perhaps to give credit where credit is due. The homes of Mr. Ames & Dr. Winnail are very reasonable for that area.
It would be interesting to see the homes of the UCG leadership. I remember when they formed UCG, the first actions they took were to make laws to protect their salary and retirement benefits. Although this is not reflected in their logo!
Fed up LCG Member - I couldn't agree more with you about how LCG does little for the poor and lonely. I want to puke whenever Wyatt Ciselka announces one of his lame "outreach programs". Seriously, singing at a nursing home is "outreach"??? There are so many in the church AND in the community that need so much and were singing for 30 minutes and calling it an outreach program? Cicelka is incapable of thinking of anyone other than himself so they've put the wrong person in charge of that program! Lazy and lame.
Bob- LCG does have a "board", the council of elders and nearly everyone on the counsel advised AGAINST bring Jimmy here but the Dictator in Chief over-ruled them. I heard this directly from a council member himself. Some (few) of the men on the council will speak openly and honestly but the majority of them are "yes men". Meredith has put fear in all of them because they know that if they don't go along with him, their heads could be next on the chopping block!
Charlotte is an expensive tourist destination.
Are there any mini bus tours of the Homes of LCG Executives? count me in!
HWA's creation of ranks in the ministry was one of the most harmful concepts ever introduced. Taking a description of duties (evangelist, pastor, teacher, etc.) and turning it into a system of ranks only ended up producing competition, jealousy and animosity.
Not only that, it forever cemented the membership as being the rank and file. Ordinary members held the lowest of positions in the church. Even among them there were levels of approval and status: greeter, usher, opening prayer-giver, Spokesman's Club officers, etc. Decades ago there were even "assistant deacons," who were unordained but temporarily given status and responsibility for the Feast of Tabernacles (complete with flashy armbands!). But alas, such endorsements were typically fleeting.
And then, of course, you went right up the ladder: deacons/deaconesses, local elders, preaching elders, pastors (actually pastor RANK, to distinguished them from non-pastor-rank fellows who still, you know, pastored churches, in a bizarre bit of semantic gymnastics), evangelists (few of whom ever evangelized at all), and "pastor general," a title created by early AC students to distinguish HWA's role so they could put something cool under his photo in the Envoy. Pastor general, of course, implied "apostle," even though, of course, it didn't.
The whole scheme created an atmosphere of people vying for position, from regular members right up through the ministry. Instead of service, people became obsessed with status.
And so we have the legacy of ministers-as-overlords, with fancy automobiles, big homes, expense accounts, and, OF COURSE, no second tithes, since they're viewed as the modern day equivalent of the Levites, a theologically bankrupt and silly bit of reasoning.
Most of the splinters (hard-head groups like Flurry's and Pack's among the exception) seem to have quietly left behind the rank business, but the impact on their thinking remains.
Ministers as servant leaders? Fuggetaboutit...
I would send you a picture Dexter Wakefield's house (Chief Financial Officer for LCG) but it is in one of the most illustrious gated communities in Charlotte and I would have to get past the security guard to get the picture.
This is a good thing.
Let people have power without accountability and you will get to see who they really are, particularly in their treatment of those they think are beneath them.
It makes the final judgment so much easier....
Anonymous said...
"A little side note here, perhaps to give credit where credit is due. The homes of Mr. Ames & Dr. Winnail are very reasonable for that area."
I don't deny the high salaries/expenses by some leaders in LCG, but in the same manner, I would also like to add that some men like D. Wakefield or W. Cieselka have big/nice houses, but they made a lot of money in business companies before being employed by LCG.
Well here is some more information... All the ministers at LCG HQ have company paid cars. Hardly any of them ever go out to the outlying churches and most live 10 miles or closer to the HQ building but they must have company cars. You dear brethren pay for their insurance and the cars. And all those big houses you see...most are subsidized by, can you quess???? Yep you!!! You pay a part of their housing costs. They also have company credit cards that they can use to buy their Starbucks coffee everyday. Any expense that they can attribute to "Church Business" they put on the card. Dinner out, books, travel, etc. you get to pay for it all. How would you like to have such a good job. How many of you have been visited? Do the ministers come and anoint you? Or do they just send an anointing cloth? Tell me what do they really do all day. Do they send time with sermons? Really how long does it take? There are some 20 ministers at LCG HQ you would think they would visit a lot. Think again they never visit the people because they are tooo busy. I know of someone who was very sick. Stage III C inoperable cancer, and had radiation everyday for 8 weeks, 3 surgeries, and 4 months of chemo over a period of a year and a half. And not one minister ever even called or visited this person. How loving is that? LCG Leadership is a bunch of hypocrites.
As far as cults and horses go, how about a picture of United apologist Cowboy Joe Moeller the Sheriff of Sundown County, on the horse he rode out on?
OOP, here he is!
And here's his bad ass Sabbath-lovin' gun totin' wife who is about to go after her old friends who've joined the COGWA.
Why are you so angry with these people, they're actually innocent. They are just following what their one time top leader had told them, that you have to "maintain a rich standard in the world because you're going before kings and queens!" Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob were rich and had land, Jacob was so status oriented that he told his sons they'd become a great nation, and his grandson (Ephriam) that's he'd be the greatest empire in the world and reap the benefits. Moses running away from the riches of Egypt? That's a lie, he stayed there and enjoyed them. Daniel said he couldn't eat the unclean food but DEMANDED an alacarte menu and the finest wines. Jesus the GREATEST LEADER said people should do business till he comes, to buy stocks and gold. Peter said he left everything to follow Christ, and Jesus told him he would be rich in this life and in the life to come. All those scriptures about the rich? Those are false. That's must have been added by some jealous people. So what's the harm in being rich in this lifetime? It's not a sin to enjoy the pleasures of the world. I hope you all get my drift...
Abraham, Jacob, etc. were rich because they worked and earned their wealth but these cog ministers are living off the tithes (which they teach belong to God but they receive and enjoy it so logic 101 - they are the gods?) by the struggling, working members - who receive nothing in return and when they ask bible questions - don't get answers but are kicked out, most of the times for causing division. What a terrible place to be in.
Most of these comments are fake, just like the lies this website pushes to stir up its own measly flock.
Yes anon 2:22 "fake" comments that are validated by many. Maybe you live in a different dimension?
In response to the anon about the "measly flock". Here we go again, the "poor us" attitude. No scriptural proof or backing to prove the comments of this website wrong, but a kiss butt answer for the Sanhedrin.
There ARE fake comments here from time to time but they are posted by what people in the splinters might call "mockers and scoffers", or what was known in school as the "disruptive kids" in class. I call them manure stirrers.
Most of the serious regular contributors are annoyed by fake comments, because far from being funny, they detract from the main purpose and focus we all have in common. We don't like them any better than you do.
BB
Lol, and behold the approaching sockpuppet army! LCG just keep doing what you do and say you don't.
cry, think critically but stay focused; dont let the evil that you witness cause you to cast away your Crown.
believe the Word of God on its merits and retain your Spirit of Love...
as a black man who grew up in the original wwcg and attended lcg i witnessed friemds and family get offended by the organizations racism and subsequently throw the baby out with the bath water, as it were.
despite the callousness, covetousness and corruption that we witness in these organizations (which by the way is the very nature of any organization), we should remember that the Love of Christ is what we as individuals should be focused on, and not allow the evil that men do to throw us off track.
you will one day rule over them; as it is Written, God will eventually appoint them their portion with the hypocrites as Matthew 24:43-51 reveals...
one of my favorite scriptures...
An observation on your little sermon, there, Anon. 10:35:
Callousness, covetousness and corruption are not the very nature of any organization. So let's not dismiss such hallmarks of the Armstrongist organizations, OK?
The love of Christ (I assume you mean Jesus) is fine. Finding it practiced by the leaders in these COG groups is what's being dissected here, so let's keep our eye on the ball, shall we.?
you demonstrate the problem with your condescending and presumptuous comments; dictating to people what should and should not be said based upon your own pov; you should become one of their ministers.
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