One thing that Armstrongism did decades ago was to adopt the Catholic view on "sin." There are "major" sins and "minor" sins in the Church of God. Who determines what is "major" and what is "minor" is always up to interpretation by the splinter group leaders.
Many years ago Rod Meredith made the absurd claim that he had not committed a "major" sin since baptism. What's "major" in his eyes and what those around him see as his sins and who have suffered under his sinful reign think are two different interpretations.
Now the Church of the Eternal God has come out and said that when a person votes they are committing a "grave" sin. Voting apparently is on par with adultery, murder, theft, and child abuse, among other things.
To be blunt, voting in governmental, national and presidential elections violates God’s plan for true Christians and constitutes a grave sin. It manifests the absence of faith in God; reveals a complete lack of understanding as to what the role of a true Christian is today; and shows utter ignorance as to who is ruling this world. We will not mince words in this Q&A, because FAR TOO MANY Christians are deceived and are deceiving others on this topic, foolishly thinking that they are serving God and their country by voting in governmental elections. ...
Many other Church of God's realize that voting is not an issue and let their members vote. The Worldwide Church of God did this for almost all municipal elections, particularity in Big Sandy. The CEG feels it is the only COG out there that is really preserving the truth once restored under HWA and therefore condemns all COG members and Christians who vote.
Why is this? WHY do we take such a strong stance against voting in national elections, while other Christians do not seem to see any problems with this? WHY do we claim that it is part of the Christian DUTY NOT to vote in governmental elections?
The simple answer is: We will NOT water down the truth of God, even though many others do. We will NOT swim with the stream of national pride, patriotism and nationalism, if it involves violating God’s Law. We WILL obey God rather than man, not being afraid of men and their antagonistic reactions and hateful persecution, but being FEARFUL of becoming luke-warm and compromising with God’s Will, even though many Christians do.
These church along with all the other COG's bow down to the rules, laws and ideas of men. What they think is God's way is only their own interpretation of what they want it to be. Anything they can do to look down upon others and cast them in a bad light is done. If they truly followed God then they would not be preaching most of the crap that they do.
Satan is the one who runs all countries around the world and that is who you are voting for when you vote. You are electing Satan!
We also explain in our booklet that it is SATAN who rules this world and EVERY country, WITHOUT exception. It is true, of course, that Satan can only do what God ALLOWS him to do, but generally speaking, God is NOT getting involved in the affairs of this world, and neither should we. God will ONLY intervene and see to it that certain individuals end up in governmental positions, if they are temporarily needed to fulfill aspects of God’s plan. But this would be GOD’s doing, NOT ours.
See: Is It Really Important To Understand That We Must Not Vote In Governmental Elections?Another reason why a Christian is not to vote for a candidate in governmental or local council elections is because he understands the truth about this being Satan’s world at the present time. It is Satan who, with the general permission of God, places candidates into governmental offices. If we were to vote, we might involve ourselves quite directly in Satan’s system. Hosea 8:4 gives us God’s warning in this regard: ‘They set up kings, but not by Me; they made princes, but I did not acknowledge them.
22 comments:
Norbert has always been looked upon as a moron by many COG members. Apparently he really is.
You (everyone) have the option of using your influence to impact your surroundings in a good way, to use your influence to impact it in a bad way, or to ignore and abstain allowing everything to go to hell.
WCG taught that the conservative way was the right way, but that we should allow everything (with the assistance of the "gentiles") to go to hell so that Christ would return more quickly to set up Armstrongism as God's government on earth.
Reality is that most of us would have done much better under Che Guevara, Martin Luther King, Pope John Paul II, or Jerry Garcia than under Herbert W. Armstrong.
BB
Moreover, you cannot work for any governmental agency, because all agencies of the government are run by Satan.
Furthermore, you cannot work for any company that contracts with governmental agencies, even if all they do is provide food for government cafeterias. And, as a matter of fact, public schools are a branch of the government and your children should not attend.
This also extends to any college or university that is publicly funded: The administration is the spawn of Satan and all the professors are demon dupes.
It should go without saying that you may not work for any company that provides any goods or services to any governmentally sponsored agency or business. Thus, you may not work for a firm that provides office supplies to the Public Health Service nor to county or state hospitals.
Neither should you work for any business that supplies other businesses that provides goods or services for any government agency.
To extend this, no one can work on a farm that receives government subsidies. That would be wrong.
You may not volunteer your time to community projects that are controlled in any way by government agencies, nor should you use public transportation to get to and from work, since the transportation system is run by Satan the Devil.
You might want to think about electricity and water supplies as well as sewage services: Many times these are provided by public utilities and, thus, could be run by Satan.
Be untainted from any Satanic or demoniacal influences by avoiding everything and everyone associated in any way with government and that includes the banking system....
Many other Church of God's realize that voting is not an issue and let their members vote. The Worldwide Church of God did this for almost all municipal elections, particularity in Big Sandy.
Really? I recall WCG being strongly against any kind of voting - at least from the early 80's on, when I became a part of it. Wasn't that stance in the old PT, GN and WN?
“Norbert Link: Voting Is A 'GRAVE' Sin and When You Vote You Are Electing Satan To Power”
Too often, when you vote with your hard-earned money to support some self-appointed splinter group leader you are electing Satan to power over you and others, and it really is a grave sin.
Also, Norbert Dink, I thought that being a lawyer was an obvious, known sin too. There are many jokes about this, all humorous and all tragically true.
“Norbert Link: Voting Is A 'GRAVE' Sin and When You Vote You Are Electing Satan To Power”
That might be totally true if you vote for the Demoncraps.
I guess it's no surprise that Missing Link has Neanderthal ideas.
All I can say is, so many people who look like they oughta be grown-ass men by now saying so many well embarrassing things without even a clue of how ridiculous they sound. Invisible boogeymen lurking around every corner? They just don't hear themselves, do they.
If ol' Norbert things that voting is a "sin" (lol) because it would be electing "satan" (lol) to power, well then if that's his juvenile, unfalsifiable opinion, who does he think is in power now? Bejezus? If "satan" is going to be in power no matter who you vote for, or if you abstain from voting, then why does it matter if you vote or not, since your actions have no effect over the situation. You might as well say that pissing in a pot is electing "satan" to power.
Just say NO to four more years of Xenu! Vote Darth Vader for Evil Galactic Overlord!
The Big Sandy voting situation was partially influenced by the fact that at least one chuch member did run for, and was elected to a municipal office.
Poor Norbie! He will be in deep doo doo when we get to the Kingdom if pantheism or panentheism are correct in their description of the physical universe which makes up our current "holodeck".
BB
I thought that God set up kingdoms, dominions and principalities. Now I learn it is Satan.
Geeze, live and learn, I guess.
That's from the epistle of Paul to the Romans, Mikey! If these people had any sort of basic understanding of Romans or Galatians, then Armstrongism couldn't even exist in the first place!
BB
Byker Bob: WCG taught that the conservative way was the right way, but that we should allow everything (with the assistance of the "gentiles") to go to hell so that Christ would return more quickly to set up Armstrongism as God's government on earth.
I think waking up to the realization that this passive-aggressive worldview requires one to be utterly devoid of empathy for your fellow man was a big key in opening the door for me to escape Armstrongism. I'm not willing to take the bet that we need not worry about problems for future generations because there won't be any future generations - it's a completely selfish, fatalistic head-in-the-sand position to take and not one that I could live with if I wanted to consider myself a decent person.
It is the responsibility for all to prove all things and just not to follow a ruling made by another human being.
If all followed this advice, Satan would not have had anyone on his side when he rebelled. As it is, his angels will suffer punishment for just going along, just as many Christians do today.
Now to the issue, this is Satan's world, he proved this by offering Christ everything, if He would fall down and worship him. But this earth is also under the Almighty, which means that there is some good in the world. Since there is some good, there are also good people out there, though they may not be considered as converted. While I personally do not see any character in any of the senior reps, I do know that in the local communities, one can find one whose issues and views, that meet our own.
Therefore, there is nothing wrong with voting, especially local voting within your community.
What these sinisters don't tell you, is that the economy and the corporations, are also Satan's, but I don't see anyone telling people not to work for corporations and companies. Why that would cease the tithes from thousands.
The best thing is to think it through when so-called experts tell you what to do, especially when it comes to personal decisions.
"It is the responsibility for all to prove ALL things and just not to follow a ruling made by another human being."
You said it! So let it be written, so let it be done!
"If all followed this advice, Satan would not have had anyone on his side when he rebelled. As it is, his angels will suffer punishment for just going along, just as many Christians do today."
Time to follow that advice! Prove the existence of "satan." And throw in fairy tales of rebellion and divine punishment, just for good measure.
"Now to the issue, this is Satan's world..."
Prove it...
"...he proved this by offering christ everything, if he would fall down and worship him."
Prove this actually happened...
"But this earth is also under the almighty..."
Prove it...
"...which means that there is some good in the world."
Prove that's the explanation for the existence of "good in the world" and not something else, or that your views are the standard by which "good" can be determined. (Seems a little self-righteous to me, but what the heck do I know?)
"...Since there is some good, there are also good people out there, though they may not be considered as converted…in the local communities, one can find one whose issues and views, that meet our own."
Say wha??? Apart from the issue of whether that's the explanation for why there are "good" people out there, how can you claim this, since:
Mark 10:18 Why do you call me good? Jesus answered. No one is good--except God alone.
Ecclesiastes 7:10 Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins.
Isaiah 64:6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
I would have thought the most magnanimous claim you theologically could support is that the precious few sabbath/holyday keepers with their sins purged either on Passover or Atonement, or both, could possibly be "good" and even that, not by their own filthy rags performance. But you're saying that even unconverted politicians are now right up there with Armstrongists who keep the weekly and annual sabbaths, clean their homes fastidiously for bread crumbs, eat the Lord's body and drink the Lord's blood on Passover, abstain from leavened bread for 7 days as well as fasting for 24 hours on Atonement, and more? Yet these politicians don't have to do any of that rigamarole, and they're still "good"? Prove it...
Aaand once you've finished proving an historical Jesus, you can prove that he was wrong about the existence of "good" people—or that you are right the "goodness" of the "unconverted.”
"...Therefore, there is nothing wrong with voting, especially local voting within your community."
Say wha??? So local politics is a pristine font of righteousness? And every district has at least one unconverted, yet somehow "good" rep? Prove it...
"...What these sinisters don't tell you, is that the economy and the corporations, are also Satan's, but I don't see anyone telling people not to work for corporations and companies. Why that would cease the tithes from thousands."
LMAO! Prove it...
"...The best thing is to think it through when so-called experts tell you what to do, especially when it comes to personal decisions."
Your conclusion is the first thing you've said that makes a lick of sense. It's completely unsupported by anything that came before it, but what the heck?
Is Norbert Link the new James Malm?
When part of WCG and then UCG, I did the right thing and did not vote. Now, however, realise it is part of our committment in society. I tried my hardest to research the parties, etc and did not let emotion influence me (such as, I'll vote for a woman because I'm one.)
I would encourage everyone to ignore the Armstrongite ban on voting. Go out there and vote.
HWA imposed this ban so that his followers would not spend time thinking about affairs outside of the group. It is designed to socially isolate his followers from society.
It also provided HWA with a ready made answer for what to do in any elections.
I would encourage everyone to ignore this dogma and go out and vote and participate in civic affairs.
Jesús Christopher de la Cruz, now you are being the self righteous one.
What anyone writes is their belief. They don't have to prove it to anyone, especially a stuffed ass like yourself.
I met many like you that keep hitting their heads on the ceiling, and think that their words are worth gold, when in fact they are full of you know what.
"Jesús Christopher de la Cruz, now you are being the self righteous one.
What anyone writes is their belief. They don't have to prove it to anyone, especially a stuffed ass like yourself.
I met many like you that keep hitting their heads on the ceiling, and think that their words are worth gold, when in fact they are full of [shit]."
LOL.
To ME? It was rhetorical, my dear. An editorial column on tap-dancing, if you will.
Of course nobody has to prove anything to ME. I never asked that anything be proven to me or to my satisfaction or by my standards. I never said my views were worth gold or were the gold standard by which anything could be determined.
But what about the responsibility? If there's anyone being responsibile around here, shouldn't you guys be proving it to someone? Maybe your own selves? No, because that would be impossible. It's not even possible to show it's likely to be true.
My only point was to draw attention to the juxtaposition, the internal contradiction inherent when someone says:
"It is the responsibility for all to prove all things..."
and then goes on to stuff not 1 but 10 absolutely unprovable things in a row into just 200 words.
Where's the responsibility? (Don't answer that. It's a rhetorical question.)
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
In fact, all of it is just so many idle words. Every word of it is devoid of meaning, consequent, or traction in reality. It doesn't even form an argument. So responsibility and irresponsibility, the proven and the unproven, and the rigorous and the complete absence of rigor, are all totally indistinguishable one from one another. It's a free-for-all. It would be a lot more responsible from every point of view if Sweetbreads777 was honest enough with everyone including himself/herself to say that he/she was going to go out and vote for no reason other than because he/she felt like it, and skip the tap-dance routine.
But it's up to others whether they really think they're going to be held rigorously responsible for the stuff they say or not, or whether they're just paying idle lipservice to that as well. I'm not anyone's judge, jury, or executioner. No one has to prove anything to me, especially not that which it is impossible to prove.
But I'M the one here who is self-righteous and full of shit? And newspapers shouldn't have editorial sections either I suppose?
No, I'm impolite perhaps. Rude even. Socially un-ac-cept-able for pointing out a remarkable example of bullshit. For daring to editorialize about the zero threadcount of the tap-dancing emperor's new clothes. Shame on me for being bad company for tea. I apologize.
Don't worry, 5:17. Jessie Santa Cruz will get tired of playing with his Thesaurus soon and will go home.
Big words don't promote discussion. Interesting ideas are what spawns and feed that.
I have never gone for the "it's a sin to vote" rule. I have always voted and continue to vote even though I'm a COG member. I feel confident that God is not going to punish me for deciding if I am for or against raising taxes to pay for street work or low income housing. Or immigration, or healthcare, etc.
I vote in secret. It's always a thrill because I'm worried someone will see me and report me to the authorities! I respect those who choose not to participate in elections but unfortunately most COG members would not afford me that same respect. They are a very judgmental group of people!
"I vote in secret. It's always a thrill because I'm worried someone will see me and report me to the authorities! I respect those who choose not to participate in elections but unfortunately most COG members would not afford me that same respect. They are a very judgmental group of people!"
Heck,I break the Sabbath in secret while using a piece of paper with HWA's picture on it for toilet paper after I've eaten the grilled lobster I've eaten!
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