If Rod Meredith is truly considering merging with the Church of God a Worldwide Association (COGWA) he is going to be in for a big shock. While some in the leadership may want to do this, the members do NOT! Many are saying they will return to United Church of God before their feet ever grace the door of an LCG church. What a stinging indictment that is!
Also it is interesting to note is that COGWA ministers are preaching about Rod Meredith's "issues" (his preoccupation with homosexuality) and that he has become "unhinged." Its a sad indicator to LCG members if COGWA ministers are publicly bad mouthing Rod Meredith. This is starting to look like the epic failure of Dave Pack where he thinks tens of thousands of COG members will soon be joining his church.
Really AWKWARD!! How do we in COGWA, who have listened for a while now to insinuations about Rod Meredith’s “issues” given his pre-occupation with rants against homosexuals, and suggestions that he has “come unhinged” with his new teachings of a rapture (something to do with the timeline of the wedding supper) all coming from our own ministers (and I hear also from friends in the UK that these thoughts are also disseminated by the COGWA leadership there)—- how are we expected to happily ‘merge’ with a group that we are told is so way off-base?! In our immediate circles at services today we all pretty much agreed that if this merger happened, most of COGWA would flee back to UCG — a windfall for them. LCG would inherit a hefty payroll with insufficient tithe-payers to support it. For my husband and I it would confirm our worst fears since the beginning that Franks & Co. were perhaps just financial opportunists in the first split, and are doing the same again with no principles — and we would certainly be back in UCG. Certainly we never understood making merchandise of the brethren as well as we do now. Shining Light comments
Also to note, is the distaste that COGWA members seem to have for Jim Franks and crew. They are referred to as "financial opportunists."
LCG COGWA can not join because it is unequally yoked, Jim Franks represents a corrupt leader, full of ambition, Walker, Langarica sacked the United Church of God in South America and Franks knows, out corrupt leaders, hopefully this is just rumor, LCG should not thieves at his side. Ali Franks and the 40 Thieves.
It should be quite obvious that not only is Living Church of God having member issues, but COGWA, UCG, PCG and RCG are too. Members are starting to rebel again at the appalling things they are being going on in their churches. Yet, the ministers and hierarchy continue to turn a blind eye and pretend that things have never been better in the church. As I have said before, the church is eating itself alive. Persecution is not coming from the outside, but from within.
18 comments:
Meredith was so confident the defection of Hulme ministers would bring LCG huge new income... but it hasn't happened. Why would he make the same mistake again with COGWA?
Several issues.
1). In business, generally the company with the most sound financials has control in what the landscape would look like after a merger. From what we know, this would seem to put COGWA in control. However, in ACOG circles, the most senior minister has control. This would be Rod, who unfortunately is debillitated by age related health issues. Again, that would seem to bode in COGWA's favor. LCG would appear to be dealing from dual positions of weakness.
2). Because of the proliferation of splinters, members have hundreds of choices in terms of groups with which to fellowship, most of which preach the basic 18 restored. This means that the ministers no longer wield the absolute power that they once did. The captain has the safety belt sign turned off, and the passengers are free to move around the cabin. In so many cases, even when ministers got a "burn notice" from one group, they simply applied their questionable talents to another group.
3). We all know about the independents, the unchurched. Some of these are more stalwart than the members of official, organized groups! However, there is also the outside of the inside to consider. These are members who fellowship exclusively with one group, but are independent in that they are not 100% committed to everything that group says or does. They do their own thinking, keep their mouths shut about the teachings with which they take exception, stay under the radar, and retain all of the friends in their group. So long as something major doesn't come into play, the ministry would not even know that these folks exist, let alone how they feel. In circles of international espionage, these folks would be called "moles".
4). What does it imply that LCG would even host such a meeting? One thing that does come to mind is that perhaps even with the recent juggling, Rod still doesn't completely trust his team with the reins for LCG. Maybe he is more discerning in his old age than we realize, and does perceive the obvious factions which have evolved within his group. A merger might tie the personalities behind these factions' hands, bringing more control into play. Outsiders would be somewhat impartial, and if the very people whom Rod is reluctant to control did not come up to traditional standards, it would not be Rod who was forced to wield the hatchet. It would be the new leaders.
At any rate, this should be interesting to watch. The trend over the past twenty years has been towards more splintering, and zero unification. But, you never know.
BB
Interesting for us who shucked the whole shebang to stand on the sidelines and watch. I personally find it amusing. At the same time, I feel sorry for people still caught up in the HWA insanity. That malevolent, immoral old con artist sure did succeed in messing up a lot of people where rational thinking is concerned.
In 1933, the COG 7th day had a split, with one group going with Salem WV, and the other staying in Stanberry Mo.
In 1948, they were able to merge again, in spite of many of the original agitators still being alive. They decided to create a new headquarters, neutral to both in Denver CO. Read the fascinating process on how this occurred here...
http://www.giveshare.org/churchhistory/historysdcog/history12.html
BB, I wouldn't call these independent thinkers moles. Moles are traitors. These people by contrast are doing what the bible commands in 'proving all things.' It's the people who let ministers do their thinking for them, that are Christian traitors. Whatever label they are given, it should be honourable.
Anon 5:15
Very well said. We are members of an ACOG, and we try to lead by example, and yes, we have been "in trouble" several times, but we have to live by faith. Actually faith is not mentioned much these days, yet we know that it is only by FAITH that we will make it in the end times. See Luke 18.8. (When the Son of Man returns will He really find faith on the earth.)
Know what, 5:15? You are absolutely right! They are the good guys, and more honorable! I'd prefer to see them fully in the New Covenant, but they are indeed emerging good guys making some correct steps!
BB
LCG has moles, double agents or whatever you want to call them. It should be obvious by now. I suspect the gastapo may even know who they are but have been burned so badly by the backlash from the last purge that they presently lack the balls to do anything about it.
Being in a church you don't agree with just for the fellowship is double minded, hypocritical and dishonest. I'm not sure what's honorable about that. Would Christ stay in a church for fellowship? It's lying in action because of a lack of courage and faith.
Franks, Horchak, Pinelli, Meeker, and the others who founded COGWA are far more corrupt than any of the remaining UCG leadership. These are the men who covered up for an elder who repeatedly molested young girls in a congregation in the Pennsylvania / West Virginia region. They are psychopathic monsters who will stop at nothing to grab power and build revenue streams.
And the COG comedy continues....
It's all about financial strategy, where the money is going to come from.
When the members are seen first and foremost as "tithe-payers", rather than human beings, that just underscores how bogus the whole scam is.
Some members stay where they think God called them to be and wait for God to solve the problems in the organization. They wait a long time. Others are immobilized in place because they don't know what to do or where to go - can't make a decision so they just stay where they are.
If I was COGWA or any other COG group I would oppose a merger with LCG.
And even though I am no longer affiliated with LCG in any way I found the thought of COGWA merging with LCG a terrible idea. In my opinion it should be either left alone or peacefully dissolved after reasoned deliberation within LCG by ministers and members. Both these options are better than some kind of merger with another group.
And the comment that Meredith is obsessed with homosexuals is completely accurate. Recently I took a look at his recent "co-worker letters" and I was stunned at just how he constantly drones on about them. So many things are happening and he tries to incite hatred against a numerically small minority. It's a distraction to make sure LCG members are not thinking about the sacrifice they make for LCG by paying the three tithes.
Good grief, 7:45! Read the gospels and Acts! Jesus did attend a church He disagreed with. In fact, the leaders were doing the same types of things back then as are being reported of LCG! And, rather than repenting, those leaders ended up demanding His death. But, He fellowshipped with not only the leaders and members, but also outsider sinners like publicans and tax collectors, to influence the culture of that day in positive directions. Essentially, undercover individuals (moles, as I called them) often work towards higher principles, just like Jesus did. They too face some pretty harsh penalties, but consider it worth the risk. How could anyone find hypocrisy in that?
You wouldn't happen to be one of the corrupt leaders of LCG, would you? That is the only type of person I can imagine would think of this as hypocrisy.
BB
This thread is a joke because it is almost certain that there is no merging project at all. In January 2012, UCG visited LCG. In January 2013, LCG visited UCG (disaster relief in the Philippines). And nothing happened. In January 2016, COGWA visited LCG and nothing will happen.
7.45, It's dishonest to say that people are in a church that they don't agree with. Rather, they partially disagree with their church. If the disagreement was major, they would not attend. Even the ministers secretly disagree with some church teach teachings. They tithe to that church, giving them the right to attend.
Are we quite certain the CoGWA isn't attempting to join up with LCG because their own financial picture is rather dismal.
That makes sense and it is the simplest explanation.
Bob said, "They too face some pretty harsh penalties"
More like they are "two faced"
I agree with you 99% of the time Bob but you have missed the mark here. It's not like these people are staying in LCG explicitly for the purpose of spying and reporting back.
Nothing they are doing is honorable. Comparing them to Christ? You've got to be kidding! Christ had courage and conviction. He said what he thought. He was genuine, open and honest. He never pretended to agree with the Pharisees just to avoid punishment.
These people are acting like they agree with LCG just so they can keep their social club status. They aren't honoring themselves or anyone else. There is nothing righteous about playing church in an organization you disagree with. I can't imagine God is pleased of that kind of behavior.
Let your yes be a yes and no be no. Have the courage to stand up for your beliefs people. Stop acting like weasels.
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