Blood is once again on the hands of the Philadelphia Church of God. The PCG has directly and a hand in another PCG suicide.
How could any parent allow these sick men in PCG to tell them to kick their chid out of the house?
How many more need to die in the PCG before people do anything about it?
The Philadelphia Church of God and the Restored Church of God are nearing the border of another Jonestown and yet church members and leaders of other Churches of God refuse to do anything. Why won't any of them speak out against Gerald Flurry and the PCG?
They do not because deep down they know they are just as sick, even though the lipstick on their own pig is severely smeared. As Bereans Did is reporting:
The Letter Kills: PCG Claims Another Life
Unfortunately, we recently learned about a heart-breaking situation that demonstrates why strivings over the law can be so destructive. We take no joy in reporting this situation. Rather, we hope that bringing to light issues and consequences like these can help prevent future tragedies in the Armstrongist community.
Once upon a time, a kind, loving couple who desired to serve God raised their children diligently in the Worldwide Church of God. In 1995, they left for one of the larger, more moderate splinter groups, and the whole family stayed there for years. Their children grew up. One child stayed in the same group as the parents. Another decided that the lukewarm splinter they attended was not zealous enough for God's law. He and his wife took their young children with them to the Philadelphia Church of God and cut off all contact with their COG family.
Fast forward several years. It is reported that, in their desire to obey their church leaders, the younger PCG couple kicked one of their children out of the house because he had a girlfriend and wasn't spending enough time reading his Bible. Disfellowshipped from PCG, that child moved in with his COG grandparents, whom he hadn't seen in years. He took his own life during the Days of Unleavened Bread, at the age of 21. Not surprisingly, PCG is telling its membership that the young man was mentally ill. Later reports included details that muddy the picture of whether mental illness or PCG's no-contact policy is to blame for his suicide. Some who knew him say they doubt PCG's story. At the very least, the no-contact policy no doubt exacerbated the pain for someone with few emotional and spiritual supports.
59 comments:
Oh no! This is terrible! I left the PCG two years ago, can you tell me who this young person is? I understand that Eric Anderson and Craig Winters covered up a few suicides as "mental illness" as well, but we all knew what they were!
This is so heartbreaking!
Mental illness can be a factor, absolutely - but growing up in that kind of environment will exacerbate mental illnesses and create horrible situations. My heart breaks for his family.
This is so incredibly sad.
Was it Cultpecker that ordered the young man put out?
Cow Cultpecker is an evil man. He sit in my living room and looked at me with just the whites of his eyes showing. He did it several times. It freaked me out, I had never seen anyone do that outside of a scary movie. Mr. Campbell said it was a sign of demon possession. I attended the PCG in Kentucky. When Cultpecker would walk through the door peoples hearts would sink. There would be weeping and gnashing of teeth. People dreaded seeing him. You could sense the evil.
Mr. Moffett, good to see you up here. I used to see your lovely daughter every sabbath when I was still in the PCG. Hope you're doing well!
Claiming mental illness is a copout if and when nothing was done to identify the alleged problem or to make sure that it was properly treated. Those who aspire to be spiritual guides are held to a higher level of accountability. The ACOGs do not acknowledge this and have never had a comprehensive plan to deal with hard cases.
They just disfellowship and leave the problem for someone else to deal with, after they have already made it worse. So much for feeling guilt or shame over a carelessly lost sheep!
It amazes me that these people have chosen this particular occasion to embrace the phrase "mental illness". It is the normal pattern within Armstrongism to refer to it as "demon possession".
This is another reminder that our daily prayers should include all of those who are still stuck within Armstrongism.
BB
“In 1995, they left for one of the larger, more moderate splinter groups, and the whole family stayed there for years. Their children grew up. One child stayed in the same group as the parents. Another decided that the lukewarm splinter they attended was not zealous enough for God's law. He and his wife took their young children with them to the Philadelphia Church of God and cut off all contact with their COG family.”
PCG members worship God with their lips, but their hearts are far from him. PCG members worship in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by a false prophet. PCG members have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of a false prophet instead. PCG members have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe the traditions of that false prophet. In one of the Ten Commandments, God said, “Honor your father and your mother.” But the false prophet says to cut them off if they did not follow the false prophet. Thus the PCG members nullify the word of God by their tradition that they received from that false prophet. And PCG members do many things like that.
The minds of PCG members are so warped that they attribute to God whatever that false prophet commands them to do, and reject whatever God actually did command them to do. PCG members obey the perverse laws of that false prophet in his satanic impostor cult, and then just falsely call it obeying God's laws and being zealous for them.
I have met several people who do the same thing with their eyes. It appears to be an involuntary reflex, probably a habit picked up at a early age. None of the ones I met were particularly interesting individuals, though, meaning that they were not accompanied by an "aura" of evil.
No one in that group is qualified to diagnose someone with a mental illness! They're so very self righteous! If you have any disagreement with a minister or member that shows you're in rebellion! A few years back I was quite distressed at seeing what was happening at HQs. The church's hairdresser told me to keep my sadness and depression to my self or the ministry would suspend me for having demon problems! That's how the PCG deals with members! You either agree with them or you're mentally ill will demon problems!
After 20 years of being in that group, I'm so glad to be out of it! I quickly realized that my "good" friends were only friends as long as I was drinking the kook-aid. Even family members have turned their backs. Good riddance!
My heart breaks for that young man, can anyone say who it was? Would sure like to know.
I really appreciate this blog, it has helped me tremendously!
Great to see you up here Dan Moffett!
I'm almost 62 and I've NEVER seen anyone else do this.
The C of G's need to change to the Churches of Ugliness.
Certainly they have no relation to God at all.
They are evil and ugly to a fault. Their hands are soaked in blood.
They move along without a second look at the devastation they have caused.
Is that guy's name really Cow Cultpecker??? Sorry...with some of the people pointed out and what they have done their name could very well be Cow. Don't mean to be dense or is it like Culpepper...I have seen last names like this.
And...it is so, so sad. I am very much aware.
Thank you
The Wanderer
Dmoffett, I've seen the same thing many times at HQs, scares the crap out of me! Very demonic. Definitely an evil presence can be felt!
Sadly, it's not unusual for church and cult people to diagnose others, when in fact they have absolutely NO legitimate credentials and NO legitimate training to do so.
Worse, they'll prescribe crazy things like "more Bible study", or "pray your ass off"
The truth is that these jerk wads are essentially 'practicing medicine without a license', and what they 'prescribe' is the opposite of what may be effective and healing.
Might as well throw a German prisoner in Auschwitz a copy of Mein Kampf to "help" him!
Dan Moffet said, "The church's hairdresser told me...."
MY COMMENT - The Church has a hairdresser? Who is it, one of the Flurry cronies who couldn't get a real hairdressing job in the real world?
Richard
"He sit in my living room and looked at me with just the whites of his eyes showing. He did it several times."
If I was in that situation, I would have liked to have put my hands to my head to form horns, and rolled my eyes to show only the whites of my eyes. Surprise! If I pretend to be possesed, he would fail at exorcism in the same way that he has failed to love others.
DBP
I AM a mental health professional (retired) with close to 50 years experience. I have been somewhat aware of Armstrongism for many years because a family member joined 40-some years ago. Through him, I've met a few long term members. These are not normal people and they do not think normally. It is very sad what they do to their children (leading to suicide, for example in my family) and even to other family members. Their beliefs and life style causes such cognitive dissonance! Some probably have diagnosable mental illness but I think any adult who chooses this type of authoritarian, apopaclytic, end-times "church" has serious emotional issues. To repeat, it's just not normal. Gloria Olson, LSCSW
Gloria: I would love to have you write an article that could be posted about this in much deeper detail.
You're right, Gloria. Groups like this thrive on the mentally and emotionally disturbed, and I certainly was as a teenager who didn't fit in anywhere. The group gave me an identity and the assurance that I was one of God's chosen. I suddenly had friends, even girl friends when I bulled my way out of the stultifying life I had led before into Ambassador College. Trouble is, I only succeeded in leaving one unbalanced lifestyle behind and exchanging it for another. However, I did get some of the benefits of a college education and I eventually did grow up and mature. Far too many never did.
Anonymous. 2:30
As young people many of us have had our emotional ups and downs and have turned to various paths to try to resolve our problems. I was never "into" religion but I turned to mental health both as a profession and in attempts to resolve my own issues. I made many mistakes and stumbled down wrong paths, the most problematical one being my attempts to accept psychoanalytic theory (Freudian) as truth. Lots of people did that back in the day but it just doesn't fit real life. Then I stumbled in the dark some more and came upon Family Systems Theory which seems to have a lot of basis in fact. However, some of the most avid followers try to take it too far, in my opinion, and it becomes a rigid belief system like some religions. After some struggle and disappointment, I have reached some equilibrium with the various mental health theories and I believe only what really seems to have evidence to back it up. To summarize, I would hope that any of us could grow, develop, change our minds about beliefs as we grow older and have much more life experience. Gloria Olson
The PCG is all about two things: Control and Money, but mainly the money.
As a member I can tell you from first hand experience that the membership have value to the PCG only as long as they are giving money. PCG members are essentially viewed as nothing more than slaves whose dual purpose in life is to worship Gerald Flurry, his family and to provide money for their compound lifestyle.
When all you hear about in sermons and announcements are the endless fundraisers for the "building fund" or "having our hearts in the work", which in effect means to support Flurry's latest grandiose scheme to benefit his grand kids, you have to wonder just what kind of religion is this.
The main qualifications for being a "minister" in the PCG is based on the toxic Ambassador College model: An ambitious ingratiating zealot with no real life experience who will stab anyone in the back if there is just a hint of opportunity of advancement for doing so. Sadly in PCG these are the people who will rise to the top and end up offering their "counsel" to church members in difficult situations or who, through their "words of inspired wisdom", will drive fragile individuals to the brink.
In all of their messages, "counselling" or sermons the PCG "ministry" never teach anything about the welfare of members. Their messages are all based on quotes from PCG literature and isolated supporting scriptures not the Bible as a whole, and especially not the New Testament. In the end it's all about Gerald Flurry, supporting and backing him and by extension his family and their college. If you can't do that you have no purpose now or in the future.
In the PCG the concept found in 2 Corinthians 12:14 "I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours, but you" is essentially reversed to read, "I will be burdensome to you: for I seek not you, but yours".
on May 7, 2016 at 5:58 PM
L.Jeffries wrote:-
"As a member...."
May I ask, why are you still a member?
cheers
ralph.f
so this page is claiming suicide by association, right? and some educated talking head affirms this? what kind of logic is this?
L Jeffries tells us: "As a member I can tell you from first hand experience that the membership have value to the PCG only as long as they are giving money."
As a member? Why on earth are you still a member?
Do you have better information, 8:18?
BB
I am currently going through the process of waking up to the deceit of what I was once so heavily involved in. Obviously remaining with the PCG is not a permanent arrangement.....
PS - Your readers might also be interested to know the extent to which rank and file PCG loathe what is happening in that organization and the number of members who actively read these posts.
8.18 PM the WCG splinter environments are not life affirming. At the very least, they are semi-toxic, eg no birthday parties since only the big people church members have worth. They are anti self worth, anti self confidence, anti self esteem, anti independence etc. People are only 'loved' in these churches if they unquestioningly embrace church doctrines. Meaning, there is good reason to suspect that the church contributes to member suicides.
from May 7, 2016 at 8:07 PM
ps. Skype along to ralph.ford35 and have a chat with a 'no obligation' outsider.
cheers
ralph.f
Please allow me to clear up some questions.
This page reported the recent PCG suicide from a piece I posted on As Bereans Did. He used the relevant portions of what we posted, which is not a problem at all.
http://asbereansdid.blogspot.com/2016/05/the-letter-kills-pcg-claims-another-life.html
I didn't write about the suicide as another chance to slam PCG. The reason I did it was because it very well answers a question many ex-Armstrongists hear frequently: What's the danger in keeping the law? What's the harm teaching our kids that they need to keep the Sabbath? So they miss out on some bacon. So what?
Situations like this are the danger, and people need to be aware of that. This is not just about instructing your kids to pick pepperoni off their pizza.
I don't know specifically which PCG leaders were involved. They don't exactly go out for coffee with me, and the young man's parents haven't spoken directly to me in a while, since they left for PCG.
I don't plan to report the name, at least not at this time. I mean, this happened just over a week ago. If you were close enough to this family to know that it happened, then you already know the poor kid's name. If not, let's just leave it at that. I've confirmed with multiple people.
Please don't judge the person that is still a member, stepping out is s very difficult thing to do. It means being cut off from all of your family and friends. Complete isolation! When you step out of the PCG, you are leaving a cult! I left a couple years ago and it has been a long struggle to get where I am now. I wish more members would contact this blog, it helps us to keep up with what is happening on the inside, I really wish there were more spies to help us.
Some of the comments have triggered my own memories of when I left WCG during the mid 1970s. It didn't happen all at once. Time was a very necessary part of properly processing it all.
At the time that it first became obvious that I could no longer repress certain factors, and was going to need to make a decision, my employment was on the line, family was definitely a consideration, long term friendsips were going to be affected, and there was the "what if?" factor. What if I made the wrong decision because there were things that I didn't interpret or understand correctly?
There was no internet back then. Some of my relatives just didn't seem to see what was going on, and seemed immune to so many of the things that were so obvious to me. If I tried to discuss issues with them, they became defensive, and even hostile. They attempted to manipulate me so that I would remain in the fold, but I could not. For some months, I led a dual life, and it was not because I was trying to be dishonest. It was because I was sorting out all of the confusion, and working on a permanent solution, and wanted to preserve all of my options until the process I was undergoing had reached its logical conclusion.
When a life's philosophy and deeply held beliefs are being re-evaluated, there is much emotion and confusion involved. People often do even think in extreme terms, and thoughts of suicide occur. It is not a pretty picture, and this is why false teachers, false prophets are so damnable.
In some cases, the thoughts of others can be helpful, but in other instances they come off as simplistic and hollow. Basically, there are times in life when one realizes that he or she in reality stands all alone.
The key thing to remember is that it all boils down to a quality of life issue. You see what is wrong all around you. But "they" use intense fear and manipulation, along with their alleged authority to keep you in the fold. That creates a level of confusion which has a special name: cognitive dissonance. Real truth does not cause cognitive dissonance. No human should be required to live in a constant state of cognitive dissonance. If you follow the evidentiary trail successfully, your mind can become unconflicted, and your quality of life can become vastly improved. It requires time to work it all out.
BB
L. Jeffries said, "I am currently going through the process of waking up to the deceit of what I was once so heavily involved in".
MY COMMENT - Welcome to the club!
In some ways, it must be harder today to attend and leave a WCG Splinter Church than it was when the Armstrongs were alive leading what appeared to be a worldwide work of a worldwide Church. But, whether it was in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s or in the 1990s splintered WCG thereafter, many eventually come to the same conclusion and join the club.
Time has proven the Armstrong Churches of God a fraud. Founded by an aluminum siding salesman who, after pitching a Seventh Day Adventist minister during the bottom of the Great Depression and was impressed that the minister had money, arrived home to his wife Loma and announced he had just found the new family business. Eighty years later, the various WCG splinters are just small franchises of that original WCG business founded in 1934.
Richard
This is a point at which it might be good to meditate on all of the implications of Jesus' parables of the good shepherd, and the prodigal son. We see in these parables examples as to the most Godly ways in which people should be treated. They are extensions of God's character. Are such examples in any way similar to the methods used in PCG, LCG, RCG, or anywhere else within the Armstrong movement?
The sheep in the parable were not deceived into obedience, teased, lied to, or abused. The prodigal son left voluntarily, and returned voluntarily as a result of learning from life's experiences. He was not preached into the Lake of Fire, branded, shunned, or harshly punished. What happened to him during his prodigal sojourn, he brought upon himself. He learned, returned, and found that his father had never
emotionally withdrawn from him.
There is a vast difference between spiritual guides, and those who would demand your loyalty and obedience by portraying themselves as your gatekeepers. Only God gets to be the gatekeeper. The abuses within the ACOGs are a perfect example of what happens when humans aggrandize themselves by usurping the prerogatives of God.
BB
+1 BB
Cults like PCG try to get salvation through authority, controlling others, entitlements, and their need to fight with others over their beliefs. There is no room inside their box. They will only hear the challenges to their beliefs.
It's not about authority, it is about learning and succeeding through our experiences. Could that be the true church of god?
DBP
Oddly. Dmoffett, the most pronounced case of that I've ever seen was a man I worked next to for years. He always did it in midsentence... right where someone with a stutter would start having tics.
Right on, DBP. Only seeker types have room in their boxes. Seekers test and retest.
I've heard that Unitarians believe that all paths are paths of discovery which ultimately lead back to God. In other words, the crack whore is learning life's lessons just as much as the young student in seminary. Just a different path. One learns through excesses as well as through deprivation. Riches or poverty. Love or hate. We all get to see and experience the consequences of our actions, and the actions of others, while here on the "holodeck". That is more CoG than any of the ACOGs.
BB
If there is a God, I think he would be a utilitarian.
Am I mentally ill if I become depressed and unhappy because my parents seem to express they don't love me anymore. Am I mentally ill because they kicked me out of the house and it weighed so heavily on me I had negative thoughts of suicide because they no longer cared for or wanted me. My parents don't love or want me, they even told me to get out, I am overwhelmed with hurt and the pain of rejection, sinking further and further into myself the hurt is overpowering me knowing my own mom and dad don't love me. I can no longer handle it, goodbye. And they call it mentally ill.
It may have been different if he was a bad kid or done wrong and knew he was wrong but that doesn't seem to be the case, how sad how horribly sad.
Yes, the PCG has their own personal hairdresser, masseuse, mechanic, cooks, construction workers, health practitioners, etc. ever since Mr. Flurry passed out on stage a few years ago he's had a local named Ramona giving him regular massages. And yes, the irony is there. Several have already commented about him marrying her, you know, there's just something about a gal named Ramona.
The local members hate a little newspaper called "OK Jailbirds" because you can often find members mugshots.
When Turgeon was confronted about a sex offender, he replied that the person had repented and we were to NEVER bring it up.
BB I don't agree on the holodeck analogy, or only with many qualifications. Life is real, and life is very precious. God instructs people to avoid sin, rather than learning the hard way. I can't help noticing that the people who appeared to be failing as Christians, whilst a church goer, were the ones who had through sin, had twisted their minds the most. The more evil people are, the lower the success rate. It pays to as much as possible, believe God and avoid sin.
I try to root out sin, too. All I was saying is that some of the people whom most would look down upon may be learning more than we realize. Obviously it would be far better if people didn't have to fight the physical and psychological effects of such things as past drug addiction for the rest of their lives. There are things which weaken us in life, and things which strengthen us. I try to do the things which strengthen. It would be foolish to take any analogy or allegory to extreme. The holodeck only works if it is a guided process.
BB
Anonymous on May 9, 2016 at 5:42 AM said...
“The local members hate a little newspaper called "OK Jailbirds" because you can often find members mugshots. When Turgeon was confronted about a sex offender, he replied that the person had repented and we were to NEVER bring it up.”
Wayne Turgeon should tell the PCG sex perverts that THEY need to TRULY REPENT and NEVER DO IT AGAIN.
The problem is that the sex perverts who are attracted to the PCG do not seem to really repent at all, and continue to prey on other people. Other people are expected to keep quiet about the bad bahavior of the sex perverts, and are even expected to go out with the sex perverts and help them out with their latest plans. Trying to politely avoid the sex perverts and politely declining to go along with their schemes will actually incur the wrath of the local leaders. Of course, the local leaders do not sacrifice their own children to the sex perverts. The local leaders specialize in handing over other people's children to the sex perverts, and expel the victims if they refuse this “help.”
DennisCDiehl...
“As a member? Why on earth are you still a member?”
Remember that PCG members have had many years of their lives wasted being indoctrinated with Gerald Flurry's satanic lies, which they have been tricked and fooled into carelessly and mistakenly assuming were taught by HWA. Like a mushroom, PCG members have been kept in the dark and fed manure. These ignorant PCG members who thought that they were so brave and courageous for not going along with the Tkach Apostasy are now cowering in fear of That False Prophet that they made the mistake of following. The PCG is all that they know since they personally chose to cut themselves off from everything else. PCG members live in fear of the Great Tribulation and the Lake of Fire, though it does not seem to occur to them that that is where following That False Prophet will lead them. If they leave the PCG, all their fake PCG “friends” will instantly abandon them, and even their own crazy PCG family members will go berserk and cut off all contact with them for fear that Flurry will expel them too if they do not. This is how a SATANIC TRAP like the PCG works.
People who commit suicide are not mentally ill, they are soul sick. No amount of "exorcism" can cast away the sadness or utter despair, and I do not know of one minister in any of the COG's who is qualified to counsel a person that is so far down. What they should be doing is sending these poor people to a professional, but they are frankly too afraid of what may be said behind therapist's doors. Also, not touching on the other kind of suicide, the slower kind, alcoholism and drug abuse. No one will open those cans of worms either.
Ramona has got quite the body. I've been on the receiving end of quite a few of her "massages." That girls hands are quite strong. Shame she's stuck in that cult.
Are we talking about Ramona L.? I don't want to use her full name. She was a good friend of mine back when I was around HQ. I'm also surprised that they are allowing single ladies to give out massages. Private room or out in the open?
Okay, if you have knowledge of that you should be telling law enforcement, not us.
Sure hope the family doesn't try and have the funeral on the Sabbath, that just is not allowed in the PCG! One firm rule they hold is: No weddings on the Sabbath, no Funerals on the Sabbath. A few years ago a lady was praised at services because she still attended even though her husband died that morning. Turgeon said, "let the dead bury the dead". What the hell was that supposed to mean!
Before Gods House was built and unconverted mate died in the doorway of the John Amos Field House on opening night of the Feast. The ambulance hauled him away and the new widow stayed for services. She was praised from the pulpit for letting her light shine and for being a witnes to her heathen family.
I just remembered sitting there wondering how her family was thinking any of that when they just lost their dad, brother, son, etc.
Good grief!
This church is so sick - the elite don't even know how to show love to another human being. Even animals demonstrate grief and sadness when they lose a love one. So sorry for the people who have endured such treatment.
The PCG teens are all a buzz tonight at HQs and various congregations. It seems that all the PYC (Philadelphia Youth Camp) acceptance letters have been received! Several teens from HQs have been accepted to the PYC in Edstone England and they're beside themselves. Sure wonder how many poor kids will be injured and badly hurt this camp, happens every year and the ministry threaten the parents to keep their mouths shut! But us locals hear it all and it's very disturbing!
>"Sure wonder how many poor kids will be injured and badly hurt this camp"
What kind of politically correct ninny bullshit is that. Sure the cult does some horrible things to sway peoples minds but you have to be sooooooo fucking delusional to think that injuries happen ONLY at PYC camp. Holy shit you're dumb.
I played football for 4 years in HS and sustained multiple injuries and the coaches constantly told me to walk it off. Played more contact sports in college than you've probably had good nights of sleep.
Sure, rag on them for misleading people, rag on them for going a bit overboard with their restrictions but don't you forget for one split second that if you choose to stay in that organization then it's on YOU - if you choose to go to their college or send your kid to their camp then it's on YOU! Just like if you choose to snort Columbian Coke or drink and drive it's YOUR fault and not anyone else.
This site has been informative and helpful but don't shit it up with your hyperbole and logical fallacies.
You people here are starting to piss me off almost as much as the ACOGs because you're turning into two sides of the same coin - people spouting bullshit out of their mouths to justify their decisions in life.
rant/over.
Anonymous brain-damaged ranter on May 14, 2016 at 7:19 AM said...
“What kind of politically correct ninny bullshit is that. Sure the cult does some horrible things to sway peoples minds but you have to be sooooooo fucking delusional to think that injuries happen ONLY at PYC camp. Holy shit you're dumb.
I played football for 4 years in HS and sustained multiple injuries and the coaches constantly told me to walk it off. Played more contact sports in college than you've probably had good nights of sleep.”
“This site has been informative and helpful but don't shit it up with your hyperbole and logical fallacies.”
Nobody said that injuries happen ONLY at PYC camps. That is your own hyperbole and logical fallacy that probably resulted from the brain damage that you sustained as a result of choosing to waste your life playing worthless and violent games. If you are really stupid, try boxing.
In HWA's booklet called The Seven Laws of Success, under the subheading of The Basic Third Law, he wrote that, “The all-important law coming next in time order is GOOD HEALTH.” The WCG under HWA also had a booklet called Principles of Healthful Living. On top of other factors that affect your health such as the type of food in your diet, sufficient sleep, exercise, emotions, and sexual activity, is the important matter of avoiding accidents and bodily injuries. Many people get messed up for life or even killed needlessly in various accidents.
Parents are right to be concerned about their children's safety everywhere, including at PCG summer camps, and about whether their daughters will come home from the PCG summer camps pregnant. Numerous injuries and pregnancies have been known to happen at PCG summer camps.
Some senseless morons shorten their lifespans by playing useless games like football and getting their heads banged up. Then they rant and cuss and criticize other people for not being as stupid as themselves. Unholy dung they're so stupid!
Let's get a little balance here. What makes these summer camps different from secular or mainstream Christian camps?
One is the way in which the medical profession is regarded. What happens if a camper swims or canoes in water where microbes are present, and comes down with flu-like symptoms? What if a camper is bitten by a rattlesnake? Unnecessary fatalities could occur at the PCG camps because of superstitions against the medical profession.
In many ways, Armstrongism has not changed. Handicaps were never properly acknowledged or dealt with. In the '60s, at SEP, an asthmatic who tried desperately to keep up during morning jogging suffered an attack. The counsellor came back to see what was wrong, and commanded the camper to stop wheezing and keep up, or receive swats later. An asthma inhaler was out of the question, as that violated the church's anti-medicine doctrines.
Personally, I enjoyed SEP because discipline there was vastly relaxed as compared to what I experienced at home, and there were a lot of fun activities that I certainly would not have been able to experience at home, like water skiing, archery, horseback riding, canoeing, and fishing. But, you also must at least allow for the possibility that since these camps are being run by organizations known to be toxic and abusive, with some campers being more equal than others (ministers' kids) it is likely that extra bad things may happen that are not anticipated by the campers themselves or their parents.
Also, over the years, parents with problem children have sent their kids off to camp expecting it to be some sort of reform school, kind of the modern equivalent of turning your children over to the priests in the Old Testament. But we must remember above all things that this PCG is the ACOG that counsels parents to leave their special needs children at the mall.
Some kids will probably have a great time, and others may end up being toughened up. But, members should certainly be aware of the dangers, as well. If these places were coded for danger, ACOG camps would probably be coded orange, or red.
BB
@buttblasted Anon on May 14, 2016 at 4:45 PM
See thing thing here is that you're defending your angst against one organization that YOU chose to stay in for so long - deception or not you could have walked out the door at any time.
You're choosing to stay locked in the past and point out every teensey tiny little flaw in their methodology all because you're angry that you made a conscious decision to follow along with their ploy.
Call me what you want, call my choice of recreational activities stupid but just remember that you're the one sitting on an anonymous website posting about how you think contact sports are somehow bad while simultaneously quoting from a book you claim to disagree with.
I constantly have wondered over the years since I have left why so many of you people have turned to the HARD LEFT after leaving the COGs.
Years ago on this site and on exit support network I used to see good discussion, and good intentions. Now all i see is:
>I hope X gets hurt and sees his family suffer because I'm a vindictive child and I can't let go of the past
>I hope they are all humiliated in the wost way possible hahaha I'm so fucking smart because I left a COG!
>I hope one of their children dies from a disease so they can see how stupid they are!!
There is no discussion anymore, there is no discourse and there is now only mal-contented adults screaming at the same thing while somehow remaining in the same mindset as they were before.
Byker bob you're 100% correct about your assumptions that parents have. and having been at those camps for a number of years I can tell you that the injuries don't stem from harsh treatment of the teens - it's more that the kids are so seditary in their lives before going to camp that they can't hack a simple 400m jog a few times a day.
Most of the parents I knew in the ACOGs who sent their kids to the summer camps KNEW that there would be intense physical activity - they even send the forms out and have you get physicals to make sure your child is indeed prepared for elevated levels of activity in hot weather.
They may be negligent in some respects but then again - they are only human and they never claim to be perfect - so people must give credit where credit is due and that's all I seek out of these discussions.
I've been to other summer camps which were far more intense such as Camp Olympia, I suffered a serious case of heat stroke after a long hike and was cleared later that day. Other kids broke bones, twisted ankles and were knocked out with rough play.
You can't hope to shield people from the harsh realities of life - injuries happen, mistakes are made.
Don't pin it all on those providing the service - pin it on those who are ignorant enough to continue down that path despite their judgement being that it's not right or not safe enough.
First off, I grew up in the PCG, and as a child of a minister was very close with the HQ congregation. I am HIGHLY offended at how some of you choose to speak about Ramona, her body, the "nature" of her massages, etc. She is a wonderful lady and a beautiful soul. Even if I am excommunicated now and none of them speak to me, that doesn't mean I am going to say untrue dirty things about specific members who have done nothing wrong but believe what they've been raised to believe. Also, I went to every PYC I was eligible for. It is not "dangerous" and no one gets hurt, save sports accidents or heat exhaustion one can get from any youth sport or activity in that hot of weather. I think the PCG is dead wrong, but I don't have to make up lies and insinuations about happy endings and demon possesion to plead my case. The things the ministry do that can be proven: taking obscene amounts of money from members and spending it on buildings and themselves, breaking up families, fear mongering, spying on members, etc is BAD ENOUGH-why add stupid gossipy lies on top of it? Grow up and let's start a revolution with actual information and TRUTH!
Who committed suicide? Has that been said yet? I tried looking in the comments but I didn't see it or missed it.
How can you use my brothers death to promote your hate speech against a church you don't agree with? I'm not even in the pcg, and I don't agree with anything said above. You don't know the whole story, most of the details aren't even right. Shame on you. Remove this post or get your facts right. How dare you use my brothers death and our pain to further your agenda. You don't even know the truth about the situation.
I’m about 95% sure this article refers to my cousin. The details match up with what happened to him. He killed himself in April 2016 at 21 after being kicked out of the parents’ home on the order of the church and then went to live with the grandparents who either still are or had been a part of the COG (That’s not my side of the family, so I don’t know for sure). I can confirm that he was mentally ill (diagnosed by a doctor)....but the church doctrine toward manmade medicine had him terrified to take the stuff that was going to help him. I blame the church wholeheartedly.
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