One of the glaring differences between the God and Jesus of the Churches of God and mainstream Christianity is the type of god they picture up in heaven looking down upon them.
Outside of far right fundamentalist/literalist churches, God and Jesus tend to be pictured more as a loving God that is the gentle watchful shepherd, the compassionate god that dines with the marginalized of society, slow to anger and walks alongside those with problems in life.
Then there is the god of the Church of God movement. A god that is eternally pissed at his creation even though he knew before the foundations of the world that they were going to sin , but he created them anyway so that they could die later. A god that is wrathful and filled with vengeance and is ready to strike down all who piss him off. A god that is going to wipe out a 1/3 of humanity, just because he needs to teach them a lesson. A god that needs to used massive earthquakes, devastating floods, tornadoes, and other natural disasters to "spank" people that tick him off. A god that is going to gleefully destroy the United States, England, Australia, New Zealand and others, allowing them to die of starvation, disease, war and be placed in concentration camps or made as slaves to European citizens.
The Warrior God is essential to the Churches of God. Without the warrior god, Bob Thiel, James Malm, Rod Meredith, Gerald Flurry and Ron Weinland would not be able to exist. It is essential to these "men" that they scare people to death. Frightened people tend to look towards those who claim to be more enlightened and have the answers.
Fortunately most of us have realized that these "men" are morally and spiritual bankrupt and have no answers.
22 comments:
A God that is vengefull and full of wrath is an invention by the hunter-gatherers turning into farmers. Farming brought all kinds of "curses" unknown to hunter peoples.
Like cattle diseases (food and mouth).
Pestilences ad plagues (because of concentrations of peoples living in groupings for considerable time.
Floodings. (That are significant and impactfull for farmers but not for hunters at all who can just walk away.
etc etc etc.
The transition from hunters to farmers is what brought the wrathfull God.
nck
Your description sounds a lot like the God of Calvinism, a God who, for His own glory, predestined some for eternal life and some for eternal torment. Not only does He hold individuals and nations accountable for their sins, he counts all guilty because of Adam's sin. He intervenes from time to time to display His wrath against a sinful people. This, as with all things in His plan, is for His own glory. He absolutely does not and never has had any intention of saving everyone or of even offering salvation to everyone. The God of the CoGs, on the other hand, desires to save all human beings and will see to it that every human who ever lived will receive a full and fair opportunity to be saved. Most CoG folk believe the vast majority will finally be saved. They believe that the day will come when all who are finally saved -- and remember that's probably nearly everyone -- will look back and be able to fully understand things that are not crystal clear now. Partial knowledge regarding suffering, wrath, the existence of evil, etc., will be replaced with full knowledge. It'll all make perfect sense at that time. To me, that sounds like a very different Deity than the one you describe--though I agree with your point regarding certain ones needing the "Warrior God" emphasis to underscore their self-importance as special prophets, apostles, watchmen, etc. -- T. Carson
Since T Carson is right with his assessment of cog belief.
And since I am right also as always.
I will conclude that the wrathful God in the description fits ALL Farmers or unlearned simple folk, with a need to explain the curses they witness in their own lives.
The hunter is a winner. (Therefore the dislike for Nimrod who was the GREAT HUNTER.)
nck
I have spent the majority of my life trying to reason with people, pointing out the errors of their says, bringing to their attention the negative consequences of their actions. I was like Star treks Mr Spock telling them have illogical their beliefs and behaviours were. The end result, a complete waste of my time. This is a good example of why God gives us a life, so we can learn the hard way if necessary.
So I finally saw the light, and realised that all that's real to most people is what they can get away with. The solution? Flog them, whip them, best the crap out of them. Only this works, this is the only reality that people respect.
God in his great wisdom has been doing this from the very beginning, and will continue to do so. In fact, this is why the ultimate power in the universe calls Himself Father, ie, these are the rules, obey or else. Glory to God for punishing the wicked.
I gotta admit I disagree with this post, you can't blame meredith and Co even old Herbert w armstrong for what is clearly described in Revelation.
Jesus Christ is clearly described as walking amongst the lampstands. He has authority to be the judge of all mankind.
Elyon or El, head of the Council of the Gods ( The Elohim) was never the same and his attitude went right down the drain when his consort Asherah was written out of the text!
I often think of it as a product borne from HWAs youth, when the Protestant concept of God often emphasized his aspects of Judge and Ruler, as opposed to a hundred years later when the popular emphasis is now Strengthener and Friend.
Of course, since HWAs text-ad style always had to purport some doom to the inactive reader (whether it was too much housework from not using the laundry service or losing ones salvation because doctrine _____ made no sense), it certainly suited him to propagate that picture of God.
"Why Does The Church of God Need A "Warrior" God?"
Probably to defeat the "Warrior" enemy in a language that they can understand.
cheers
ralph.f
Concept of God is basically a function of where one obtains one's description. The Psalms? The gospels? Or Revelation? The fact is, at the end of Revelation, we are left with Lamb Power. As with any great book, whatever stands out to you the most is going to be a function of your own personality. The warrior aspects of God stood out to HWA, because HWA was a tyrant by nature. Other, more loving and compassionate teachers may have taken their understanding from the Psalms, and the Gospels.
BB
on June 2, 2016 at 8:21 PM
Byker Bob wrote:-
"Other, more loving and compassionate teachers may have taken their understanding from the Psalms, and the Gospels."
I wonder if they could have gotten through to Michael Madison and others of similar ilk.
cheers
ralph.f
In addition to that:
on June 2, 2016 at 8:21 PM
Byker Bob wrote:-
"Other, more loving and compassionate teachers may have taken their understanding from the Psalms...."
Does that include "Psa 119:97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day."
I guess I'm just a legalist at heart, with the 'Decalogue' being the standard.
From Merriam-Webster
"Main Entry:le-gal-ist
Pronunciation:-list
Function:noun
Date:1646
1 : an advocate or adherent of moral legalism" [emphasis mine]
cheers
ralph.f
Revelation Jesus is so different from Gospel Jesus because the issue being addressed in Revelation is the Roman occupation and oppression of Jerusalem and the apocalyptic encouragement it gives to Jews and Jewish Christians that the evil Romans would be driven from the City in 3 1/2 years by the Messiah. It's a "Hang in there" document. It also has nothing to do with today no matter what one tries to tease out of it in analogies and speculations. "Of thngs which must shortly come to pass" and "Behold I come quickly" meant exactly that . Nothing more and nothing less.
Of course, the prophecy failed within a few months and the Romans won.
Gospel Jesus, is the Jesus who committed suicide by Roman and fully intended to. When he is said to have overturned the tables of the money changers, told as as an event early in Jesus life in John but put at the end in the other Gospels, he sealed his fate. He was going to "die" , at least for one long weekend, but come back better than ever . Whether that counts as a sacrifice or not, as all "types" stayed dead, is another debate.
He was the kinder and gentler version who forgave , suffered the little children to come to him, healed as he went in one way or the other. Different authors, different times, different agendas. Though the Gospels are told in the setting of the Roman occupation of Jerusalem and Israel, you'd never know it. The Romans portrayed seem downright giddy over Jesus and repentant.
Old Testament God fit the times and the people who imagined him. Gospel Jesus fit the times of how to get on with the Romans and Revelation Jesus fit the times of having had enough and giving the Romans a go, which failed miserably as it did in Maccabean times for which times the Book of Daniel was written (160's BCE) and from which much of Revelation was taken for similar reasons.
To Anonymous @ June 2, 2016 at 2:15 PM,
I enjoyed your post and it made me laugh.
I assumed that you posted that with tongue in cheek, because taken as such, it is rather funny!
When the Iron Age Jews usurped El(the 'Father God'- large and in charge of the Bronze Age Canaanite pantheon) to become YHVH, as their own, it was a smart political move.
Ralph said...
"Psa 119:97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day."
I like that! But, the devil is in the details, right?
DBP
on June 3, 2016 at 7:27 PM
DBP wrote:-
"I like that! But, the devil is in the details, right?"
Not sure I get your drift, DBP. My e-Sword Strong's module has this:-
"H8451
תֹּרָה תּוֹרָה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.
Total KJV occurrences: 219" (bolding mine)
My "Word Study" module has much more.
cheers
ralph.f
I've been pondering this Jesus figure you speak so favorably about.
Referring to my earlier postings here it seems that Jesus Christ wanted to re establish hunter gatherer values through, equality and justice.
Hunter gatherers are equal and just.
Whereas farmers are able to accumulate wealth. And store it. (in banks)
Look on it this way. All knights actually started as farmers protecting their farms, from the Prussian Junckers to the English Kings.
Equality and Justice, Hunter Gatherer values, Jesus Christ.
The warring Gods, sending pestilences is God representing values and troubles for farmers protecting their wealth through war and from pestilences through worship.
Noah's flood has no significance for hunters like the accursed nimrod. Hunters are always on the move, they walk away from flooding rivers systems in mesopotamia. Farmers cannot walk away from their lands. They can only invent a system of worship in order to appease (the God(s)).
Therefore there is no place in the internet age for centralized organizations like the Roman Church of God or the COG's. In a world of decentralisation, secrecy, hush up, isolation, top down government are obsolete and ineffective.
The danger lies in local Gods nowadays.
nck
JC as attempting to restore equilibrium to a system ran affaul.
Isn't he called "the second adam" also referring to the hunter gatherer.
David was at best as a hunter gatherer with his merry men, better than as a farmer king increased with goods in the storage (bank.)
Thinking of it. Didn't the first Rader-Kuhn magazine feature hunter - gatherers.
nck
Ralph said:"Not sure I get your drift, DBP."
The Law I was referring to, is the Laws of Nature. Those Laws that no human or even the atoms that make up our bodies can ever break. We can't help each other if we fail to realize the above statement.
As an example, imagine a hippie visiting the Grand Canyon. Since he is from the '60's, he takes a hit of LSD to supposedly enhance his experience and now believes he can fly. The people around him fail to convince him he is wrong, so he decides to get away and prove to them and he flies to the other side. Well, he was right!, but not for very long.
DBP
DBP,
Do you mean "the law of physics?"
As a former lawyer "the law of nature" holds a different meaning to me. (As in enlightenment, law of natural man, founding fathers) (as provided in my postings on the hunter - gatherer).
nck
How is "the law of nature" not a part of physics?
Scientists discover laws, and there is no need for law-errors to enforce those laws.
:P
Care to share your definition of "the law of nature".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law
I see the confusion now. I used the phrase Law(s) of Nature, whereas you used Law of Nature referring to Natural Law. Thanks for the clarification.
DBP
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