I never make mistakes.
I thought I did once, but I was mistaken.
Living Church of God is reeling today at the number
of ministers and members that were served subpoenas for upcoming testimony in the
lawsuit that the Scarborough's brought against Rod Meredith and the church.
The number of those served papers is said to be around 250 people.
You can quickly see why LCG is in such a turmoil today. That is a
huge number of people that can spill the beans on the way the Living Church of
God works.
Some are deeply offended that the Scarborough’s
filed this suit. “Church members are not supposed to sue church members”,
is the claim being thrown around. This is LCG's attempt to divert peoples
thinking away from the actually abuse that Meredith and his ministers dumped on
the Scarborough’s and members that Saturday during the sermon where he
demonized the Scarborough’s.
One comment made here says this:
Matthew 18 says ...and if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
The Scarborough's took it to the church in the letter they sent all of us. But our leaders wouldn't yield and make peace. So the Bible now gives them permission to treat Mr. Meredith and Mr. McNair as heathens.
It's that simple. LCG leadership had a year to behave as the Christians they claim to be but instead of "manning-up" they continued in their lie. Instead of showing the love and mercy of Christ, they decided remain stubborn and prideful carnal, ungodly men.
I have never been so disappointed.
Living Church of God is now paying the price for
the bullheadedness and arrogance that permeates the upper levels of the LCG hierarchy.
Meredith, Ames, Weston and others have always felt that were
unaccountable to the membership and could say anything they wanted. That has
come back to bite them big time. Apparently the public marking of the Scarborough’s
was particular vicious and extended.
I was at church the day the Scarborough's were marked. It was the most vicious attack I have ever been witness to. The entire day was focused on defaming these people.
I'm sure that is why they are deposing so many people.
250 people won't lie for LCG even if a few decide to.
Witness testimony plus an un-edited copy of services that day will be pretty damning to LCG's defense.
Add to that witnesses that testify to how the Scarborough's helped them over the years or showed generosity toward them to show that they were good people and it seems like a no-brainer (and I'm not a lawyer).
The question many are asking is how many of the
deposed will actually lie in order to keep Meredith and the church in a good
light. If the LCG hierarchy is counting on a large swath of members
defending them, they are going to be in for a shock. By constantly
spreading around the myth that convert church members would never sue other
members, they are counting on people never delving into the topic. Plus,
when the ministry says it is a sin to go against the leader it instills another
level of fear into the members minds.
Rod Meredith teaches that Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, and since Jesus hasn't removed Meredith, He must approve of what Meredith is doing. Therefore, to go against Meredith is rebellion against Jesus Himself. This makes the leader infallible! Any man could say this, could he not? Meredith is very good at manipulating people into following him. Without that manipulation, propaganda, and brainwashing, I wonder just how small his following would be.Throughout all of this the arrogance of the ministry has been at play here as one writer here wrote:
LCG ministry absolutely believe they are above being corrected. I know this first hand. I was once smugly asked by a minister in LCG if it was my job to correct the ministry. In their minds they are too right to ever be wrong.
When Meredith was sued the last time he was
represented by the Worldwide Church of God with unlimited funds and a large
team of lawyers. All he had to do is sit there and let the church pay for
everything, though while this was going he was plotting with others to form a
church he could run after he left WCG. He had no problem in letting the church
spend their money to defend him while he was setting himself up to take
millions in tithe money. Ethics have never been a strong point for
Meredith.
Now he will let his own church defend him with a
large stable of lawyers at his beckon call. Millions will be spent in
tithe money but he doesn't care. His arrogance reigns supreme and is more
important that admitting he made a mistake. Ethic's be damned.
30 comments:
From some of the comments we read, LCG members seem to want to kick what they believe to be their great commission into high gear. They think the Armstrong prophecy mode is speeding up and getting back on track after a 40 year delay, and that the world needs to be powerfully warned. But, just as the critical moment is reached, much like Ted Kennedy, or another Ted we all know, oops, there goes Roddy once again!
This has got to be just as devastating for the LCG members as what Weinland put his people through. The statistics for member retention in situations such as this are not very encouraging. I can't imagine how LCG leaders could possibly spin this, or turn it around. Polygraph machines will probably come into play at some point. Just imagine what service of all of those subpoenas must have cost the Scarboroughs! Talk about shock and awe!
BB
This sums it up for me.
3Jn 1:9 I wrote somewhat unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
3Jn 1:10 Therefore, if I come, I will bring to remembrance his works which he doeth, prating against us with wicked words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and them that would he forbiddeth and casteth them out of the church.
3Jn 1:11 Beloved, imitate not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: he that doeth evil hath not seen God.
Diotrephes was obviously, the leader of that church congregation, not unlike Meredith is today.
Regardless of our opinions of the Scarborough’s, they had made an effort at reconciliation, but were soundly rejected.
“Rod Meredith teaches that Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, and since Jesus hasn't removed Meredith, He must approve of what Meredith is doing.”
Has it ever occurred to anyone that Christ leaves him there to test the laity? Just like with Armstrong, it sifted out those who follow a man and those devoted to Christ and the Father.
Revelation 11:1 is being fulfilled folks, make no mistake about it. Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and one said, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
10.05 PM your "Christ leaves him there to test the laity," is a common explanation given in such situations. But this implies that God is a control freak. What if God lets people make their own decisions, respecting that they are free moral agents.
God is a freedom loving, rights respecting God. It is there in the parable of the talents. He compares Himself to a nobleman going into a FAR off country. No helicopter God here. People portraying God as a tyrant, are making a god in their own image. Very self serving.
Cheers TradingGuy.
10.05 PM your "Christ leaves him there to test the laity," is a common explanation given in such situations. But this implies that God is a control freak. What if God lets people make their own decisions, respecting that they are free moral agents.
God is a freedom loving, rights respecting God. It is there in the parable of the talents. He compares Himself to a nobleman going into a FAR off country. No helicopter God here. People portraying God as a tyrant, are making a god in their own image. Very self serving.
Cheers TradingGuy.
"Regardless of our opinions of the Scarborough’s, they had made an effort at reconciliation, but were soundly rejected.
“Rod Meredith teaches that Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, and since Jesus hasn't removed Meredith, He must approve of what Meredith is doing.”
Has it ever occurred to anyone that Christ leaves him there to test the laity? Just like with Armstrong, it sifted out those who follow a man and those devoted to Christ and the Father."
I had never thought of this perspective but it is really resonating with me.
This will really test LCG members. Will they side with a man - no matter how wrong his actions are proven to be? Or will they decide to stand up for what is true and right to follow Christ?
It's so much more comfortable to stay where you are and not risk losing friends and disappointing family members so many will lack the courage needed to stand up and walk away from what is so clearly a corrupt organization.
That being said, there are God-fearing men and women in LCG and it might be eating at them to see how prideful and carnal their "human leaders" are. Ultimately, that might make them realize they need to follow Christ, not Rod Meredith.
One path leads to life. One path leads to death. Meredith won't be standing there on Judgment Day when God asks them why they stood there and did nothing in the face of injustice.
tag
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“Church members are not supposed to sue church members”, is the claim being thrown around.
They're probably referring to what Paul supposedly said in 1 Corinthians 6 about church members suing church members. Thing is, the Scarboroughs TRIED to work things out within the church, and then were viciously MARKED and KICKED OUT of the church.
Maybe the LCG folks who've reacted with strong aversion to the lawsuit should read Matthew 5:40, where Jesus said, "If someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well"
BB writes, "Polygraph machines will probably come into play at some point. Just imagine what service of all of those subpoenas must have cost the Scarboroughs!"
I doubt that polygraph machines will come into play. In the USA, polygraph results are VERY VERY RARELY admitted into evidence in court cases, and no defendant or witness can be forced to take a polygraph test, due to it's unreliability. And the LCG's defense team would never stipulate to the admission of results a polygraph test administered to the Scarboroughs!
Does anyone know if polygraph evidence was used in the 1987 McNair v. Worldwide Church of God case? I don't recall that it was.
I don't know if all of those subpoenas have cost the Scarboroughs anything. If their law firm has taken the case on contingency- based on having a strong case, the Scarboroughs may not be out of pocket for those expenses.
But all-in-all, it should be entertaining, and hopefully an opportunity for LCG members to break free of the cult after seeing a high-profile example of the overbearing wrongheadedness and lies of their church's leadership.
"LCG ministry absolutely believe they are above being corrected."
Well, they are about to get schooled in mistaken notions... I imagine the Scarboroughs will probably get their tithe donations over the years back in spades.
Those who have been dragged into the situation will be torn between having to tell the truth "so help me God" and defending the church. Sad you can't do both at the same time.
Having moved from the Carolinas recently, I also wonder if some won't wish to make an example out of some church for a change in what is called "Jesusland" by those less disposed to the ever present Fundamentalist presence, self righteous judgment and finger waving they do day and night on the radio and in shove it in your face print. Greenville still had zealot "street preachers" and being one was the ONLY reason students at Bob Jones University could even go downtown. The pull of the world and all that.
I was accosted by a BJU "Preacher Boy" as they are called and asked if I believed in the Lord's Supper. I put my arm around him as we walked and said, "Oh thanks..but I just ate and can't eat another bite." He stared at me and said, "No! I mean THE LORD"S SUPPER." I repeated my comment and he just stared at me but I did not let him loose. Finally I said, "Son, first of all don's screw with me Biblically and secondly, learn to mind your own business and get a real life." Great look on his face as he squirmed away and consigned me to hell.
LCG is probably going to get a lesson in that as well in all things related to "come let us reason together" and many other work it out scriptures.
Perhaps this can serve the COG "Shits and Splisms " (I mistakenly said that once in a Bible Study) , as a lesson in standing up to fake power and inflated and mistaken egoic ideas either as a church or who they think they are in the grand scheme of things.
Well Rod's been saying they are going to shake the world. This may not shake the world but it will shake up LCG. Rod's been saying they all need to becheech God and cry out they need to be driven to their knees. This could do it.
By supporting Rod, if they mean (and they do), lying to protect him, then they are breaking the commandment. If they advocate that others lie, then they are anti-christ. I hope that those that are called to witness, give a truthful witness, regardless of the consequences by LCG.
Common sense eludes the COGs and always has. There must be a doctrinal teaching to avoid it at all costs
I don't know for sure that it was their intent, but subpoenaing so many individuals must have made it very difficult for LCGs mucketymucks to consider trying to sweep the whole thing under the rug.
Does anyone know if the sermon "marking" the Scarborough family is available to read or listen to? I imagine Rod would have removed it from church sites, but you never know with the internet. Could be out there somewhere.
I am so grateful to simply go to work, do good work and not have to get up every day with church drama and crazy ministers and leaders eating a hole in my stomach and spirit. My condolences to the ministry that knows the feeling and can't or won't reclaim their life, self respect and freedom from thinking others know best for them.
.......ever since the "Global" days, it was and still is.. just
"Following A Man"
You people of Living COG, you read your Bibles, ask yourself:
1. When was the last time you saw Matthew 18 followed in your church?
2. Does II Samuel 2 (Sons of Eli) mean anything to you?
3. Does James 2 seem familiar to you? (respecter of persons)
4. Prov 20:10 (diverse weights...) does that ring any bells?
5. When you are called in to court, what's the 9th Commandment?
I know exactly what Dennis means. When I went through the angst and trauma of establishing my own business, first in Pasadena, then Phoenix and in a small way in Cottonwood, it set me free. I could follow my personal moral code which steadily became humanist to the core. I could think my own thoughts and draw my own conclusions without bowing before the trumpeted supeeriority of someone else's self-serving conclusions and diddtates. It's so freeing. Allen C. Dexter
In another thread a commenter said this lawsuit won't cost RCM and LCG anything because they have insurance to cover it.
That is so short-sighted.
It WILL cost LCG when testimonies and truths/lies become public and members withhold tithes or leave all together.
There's no way for LCG to escape unscathed in the long run.
If the lawyers for LCG know that an insurance company is footing their bill they will milk it for all it's worth. I could see them giving LCG false hope just so they can stay on the payroll a little longer. It's not in the law firm's interest to resolve this.
The Lord detests dishonest scales,
but accurate weights find favor with him.
If this does drag out, it's going to sap morale. As if they needed to take on any more negativity at this time!
BB
I believe we are witnessing the end of the LCG, here is why: Mar 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.
This is not just an issue of some longstanding devoted members against the leadership, this is brethren against brethren.
It's dividing the laity.
If integrity wasn't a concern, if indeed honesty was the norm, not one sophena would have been needed.
When Christ was resurrected, He could have stuck around, personally directing the apostles. Yet He chose to return to heaven. Meaning, He gives Christians responsibilities, so that they can grow as individuals. The ministers by contrast, rob church members of these very God given responsibilities. They use the Big Brother Ministry of Truth label of 'administering Gods government' to rational the theft. And egged on by Herbies 'government is everything' mantra.
Cheers TradingGuy
Exactly, who gains ? Not Lcg not even the Scarboroughs in the long run. They are all destroying themselves with this. I feel sorry for brethren who must be getting dragged into this. This could run for years.
Anon said, "When Christ was resurrected, He could have stuck around, personally directing the Apostles." Is this what the Holy Spirit did and still does today, not just in the lives of clergy, but ALL believers? The WCG seems to have believed that only the ministers had the Holy Spirit directing them. The members didn't seem to have the Holy Spirit or any of the spiritual gifts mentioned in Rom 12 and I Cor 12. The WCG thought that the only gifts the members had were the gifts of paying, staying and praying. Do you recall a push for members to exercise their gifts? To do so would be giving them authority and influence. Did anyone but ministers have a gift of teaching? Could a member teach a Bible study?
11.36 pm. "who gains??" what about peoples right to justice? So what if it 'runs for years.' People who have a casual attitude about justice towards others, are religious and vindictive about their rights being respected. It's always the 'I have all rights, and you have no rights' people, who write comments like yours.
People's right to justice ? What sort of justice will this whole sorry situation bring ? It will bring hardly any justice. Oh if the Scarbouroughs have a decent judge and are proving without doubt what happened. Then what ? Who gains in the long run? Meredith side will no doubt dig their heels in further and a shattered and exasperated brethren will be torn between two eating fractions in the same church. LCG name will be more blackened than usual and who gains ? Noone except the lawyers.
12:51, normally the part about the lawyers would be correct. However, what if this resulted in the disbanding of LCG? Get the job done that the Global fiasco failed to do. Wouldn't that be a win for everyone? The long oppressed brethren would then need to seek a better affiliation, whether it be mainstream, another ACOG, or independent.
And, hopefully, Rod would learn the most important lesson of his life.
BB
12.51 PM. Your intellectualising ignores the existence of moral principles. One can reject every one of the ten commandments using your line of 'reasoning.' When Israel asked Pharaohs permission to leave Egypt, Pharaoh punished Israel by with holding the straw used in bricklaying. God allowed this, because it reflects the problems and hardships in pursuing worthwhile gaols, including doing things Gods way. According to your line of reasoning, Israel should have stayed in Egypt as soon as Pharaoh punished Israel.
Don't quit your day job. Never consider becoming a minister of religion.
No such thing do I think Israel should have stayed in Egypt. You Jump to conclusions about people. Don't quit your day job either.
BB; I like the thought of the disbanding of the LCG and it ending up being a win for everyone, and thanks for adding the part where I think you said it sincerely, that hopefully Rod will learn the most important lesson of his life instead of just putting him down, it really would be nice if somehow he swallows his pride and gets it.
Chuckles, I honestly hope that everyone can be saved. We all have areas of our minds and lives that we can't do anything about. That's what forgiveness and transformation are all about. And, Dennis has done a good job of humanizing Rod Meredith for us over the years. Analyzing my own life and interactions, I really don't want to see anyone be punished or condemned for anything that they did that had an adverse effect on me. Much better to see their hearts (and our own) turned.
BB
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