Many in the Church of God have always had a fascination with alternative "news" sites, papers and books, as they promoted one conspiracy after another. When I came to Pasadena in 1975, Gary North was the man of the hour. Newsstands in Old Town Pasadena were filled with his books and WCG members and employees devoured them. Anything concerning the Illuminati was sure to gather a COG following. Then there were the Visions of Fatima crowd who thought Fatima had written down three prophecies with the final one sealed till the end of time. This is the one that sends Almost-arrested and jailed Bob Thiel in orgasmic prophetic ecstasy. Add to this the anti-Semites that filled the church who passed around the Protocols of Zion as proof that Zionists were trying to infiltrate the church.
In 2017, in the various COG fringe elements, are those who still find solace in alternative news sources and Internet sites. The three biggest whack jobs in the church today that do this are the Kitchen family, Almost-arrested and jailed Thiel and deluded Wade Cox. WorldNetDaily is the go to source for news in many COG's today, from Almost-arrested and jailed Thiel to United Church of God.
Timothy Kitchen is crowing on his Facebook page that Herbert Armstrong was right and finally vindicated by offering "proof" that Hitler and Eva Braun did not die, but had escaped to Argentina where they died of old age.
Timothy Kitchen, posted a story from YourNewsWire.com about Hitler being alive. Kitchen states:
"Proving God's Apostle and Church true once again."
Documents proving Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun fled to Argentina in a Submarine
Newly released FBI files claim that Adolf Hitler escaped by submarine to Argentina where he lived in a heavily guarded ranch at the end of the Second World War suffering from asthma and ulcers.
An amazing cache of files shows that J Edgar Hoover’s FBI classified files surrounding Adolf Hitler’s escape by submarine to Argentina.
Recently released FBI documents are beginning to show that not only was Hitler and Eva Braun’s suicide faked, the infamous pair might have had help from the director of the OSS himself, Allen Dulles.
In one FBI document from Los Angeles, it is revealed that the agency was well aware of a mysterious submarine making its way up the Argentinian coast dropping off high level Nazi officials. What is even more astonishing is the fact that the FBI knew he was in fact living in the foothills of the Andes.
YourNewsWire mixes articles with half-truths and outright satirical information. A quick search of the Internet can tell the Kitchens this, but no, that is too hard to do since it does not fit their narrative. This is not the first time that the Kitchens have fallen for a satire site, and it wont be the last. Almost-arrested and jailed Thiel still does this, as does Wade Cox. Apparently, decades of listening to half-truths and outright lies from the pulpit have not equipped them to deal with reality. Distorting the Bible, preaching personal opinion as truth, and deliberately lying to their members, has been the distinctive hallmark of the COG ministry. Whether one is lying to members about Hitler being alive, deceiving a couple thousand Africans with myths and lies or preaching that the Koran is a legitimate book for Christians and that half of the African Continent is now Sabbatarian and COG members. Millions of Muslims have abandoned their religion in order to become Sabbatarian COGites.
Can truth ever be found in the Church of God? As it shrinks into oblivion, does any one care anymore?
Herbert Armstrong: IS HITLER ALIVE, OR DEAD?
27 comments:
Even if true, it doesn't matter. The reason it was important to HWA for Hitler to remain alive was that Hitler would reappear and finish the job, i.e. fulfill HWA's false prophecies. He never did, leaving HWA as every bit the discredited false prophet that Harold Camping was. So, the piece Tim Jr. has proudly posted about his Apostle is completely irrelevant.
There are some really determined, highly trained professionals in the international Jewish community, and they have been totally relentless in seeking out Nazi war criminals and bringing them to justice for the holocaust. There is no place on the face of the earth that Hitler could have hidden, and no way that the FBI or CIA could have maintained a secret such as this. Allen Dulles was a lot of rotten things, but he could never have kept the lid on something so controversial and of such importance to so many powerful people.
BB
The National Enquirer has vindicated me once again, and proven that I was right when I said that lizard aliens are living at secret underground bases all over the US.
Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick!
While it's true that the evidence Hitler died in the bunker has been shown to be weaker than was first thought, at this point, who really cares that much. If he did get out, by the end of the war he wasn't in good health anyway, and if he didn't die by before the end of the 50s, he certainly wouldn't have survived past the 60s. Sure, it would have been a travesty of justice, but on the other hand, what did the Nazis do after WWII? they sure didn't make any visible signs of a comeback. They didn't do anything but skulk and hide. Taking everything we know into account, my odds are on him committing suicide in the bunker.
People who started out as suckers and were further trained to be uncritical have been set up not just to fall victim to the one con to which they may have devoted their lives, but to every other subsequent con that comes down the pike as well.
The last time I heard anyone seriously consider that Hitler was still alive was at a Spokesman's Club presentation evening in the late 1970s. The speaker remarked that some may doubt his claim, so he read a passage from Revelation (which I don't remember) as his proof.
What does this have to do with salvation?
The false point that Timmy makes, that Herbie was right once again about something, make the boy proud of his dead master. But this kind of bullshit will not rope people into the movement, rather it will discourage them from joining in with a bunch of wackos!
Really, does Timmy really think that putting this shit on line will draw people close to God? Or is he looking for followers who are just as nutty as he is?
Another thing, how many Soviets would have had to be part of this conspiracy to pull it off?
No, this is just sick crap by a sick man IMHO.
HITLER IS STILL ALIVE , EVEN NOW IN 2017!...
His name has been changed to Dave Pack and he is living in a compound in Wadsworth Ohio!
What worries me is that this stuff is on the history channel also and still today. One more reason not to watch that channel.
The reality is that Hitlers cousins live in the USA and unfortunately for them for some reason, decided not to procreate.
Even if HWA says several times that the thesis might not be fact for 99,9 percent, it still gives an insight into HWA's psychology. He states that Hitler would want to try and survive since survival is mans first instinct and Hitler supposedly was driven by ego and vanity.
Wow. That is some insight into HWA.
He for sure does not understand the German mind, the German honor code and especially not the officers code that a failed officer is to commit suicide amongst his dying soldiers. To stand and die and not retreat was what Hitler demanded of his own soldiers several times.
As a matter of fact that is the very reason an officer carries a pistol.
Also Hitler felt that the German people had been proven to be undeserving of the promise of world rulership. As a great fan of Wagner and the Gotterdammerung, everything was to go under in flames.
HWA does not seem to understand basic warior honor code and instead claims vanity, egotism as main drivers. Those are the drivers of the American marketing machine of consumerism as an alternative for the pursuit of happiness and replacement of the atavistic drivers like self prservation, as invented by Bernays.
nck
Herbert Armstrong escaped in a G-2 first to the Lizard alien base under the Denver airport, on to Montauk for a time and to Rendelsheim Forrest in Germany for his final escape to Tucson. He died 10 years after Joe Tkach Sr but is still known to be rolling in his grave, the location of which is a secret but thought to be under Glass Pyramid at the Louvre Pyramid and next to the Virgin Mary.
I am embarrassed to admit that I was a devoted follower of this cult for thirteen years (1960-1973). My only excuse is that I was young and gullible..also idealistic. By 1973, the moral decay, corruption, lavish spending, and inability to predict the future became something my mind could no longer reconcile.
Questeruk, my experience was like trying to say Jesus did not mean THIS generation in Matthew 24, but instead meant some far future generation, say in 2030 or 2040? If God inspired the Bible, he seems to have been a poor communicator. Thousands of interpretations, thousands of conflicting beliefs, all from its pages...please! Satan is at work no doubt.
Reminds me of people who end their prayers with "Lord, your will be done". No matter the outcome, even if God is deaf or on coffee break, they can maintain their belief that He is listening and cares, because they have built in an excuse for no results. Truth be told, many know no answer is forthcoming, but they cannot give up old habits and cherished beliefs. I repeat, strong belief will rule out learning. Simple concept.
What a load of horse shit!
Germany as Assyria is directly linked to British Israelism. The Germans were identified as Assyria by Herman Hoeh. They are then the chosen instrument of God for chastising Israel. We see this enacted in WW I and WW II. Hence, we have compelling verification of BI. So Hitler's continued presence is a support plank in the platform of BI. Hitler may once again rise up and lead Germany in a battle against US and BC. And it all has to happen soon because if fits in with "end-time events."
The simple and unrelenting truth is that Germany is not Assyria. There is no support for the idea of Germany being Assyria either genetically or historically. Hoeh's article "The Races of Mankind" was not the inspired word of God. It is pseudo-history of the most fantastical sort.
A small point that might launch someone into doing a little research that would lead to understanding that the whole Assyria thing is fiction: Herman Hoeh claimed that the Russians, descended from Tubal and Meschech, were Japhetic and racially different from the Germans who were supposed to be Assyrians descended from Shem. But geneticists have established that the Central and Eastern Germans are largely haplogroup R1a. The Russians, according to Hoeh's theory, should then be something else - maybe in the Asian branch of mankind. The Russians, however, are also R1a and are the Indo-European brothers of the Germans. Hoeh is completely wrong.
It is difficult to say this enough:
Herman Hoeh's mapping of the Table of Nations in Genesis to mankind is demonstrably false.
We do not have to delve into arcane histories of questionable reliability to establish this. People wear the tag of who they are racially in their DNA. If the science of genetics had been mature in 1947, as it is now, Hoeh would have never written the Compendium of World History. It would have saved him the embarrassment of having to renounce it later in his life.
How people can give credence to Hoeh's earlier writings and yet reject his later renunciation of all this is a puzzle. I am sure they would come up with a facile theory that makes the early Hoeh valid because his writing was under the governance of HWA and the later Hoeh invalid because his writing was post-HWA. This is just sad artifice.
IS HITLER ALIVE, OR DEAD?
Yes.
Neo
Hoeh just put another spin on many ancient (recorded) folk tales.
Especially those from medieval monks trying to establish geneologies for the rulers of the day.
Nothing originated with Hoeh.
It is a compilation of medieval lore, 19th century imperial ideology and 20th century masonry. All verifiable earlier sources than Hoeh. All extremely powerful in their original intent rendered esoteric in more sophisticated times.
Nck
Gerald Bronkar mentions "people who end their prayers with "Lord, your will be done" as a hedge so they could go ahead and say their prayers were answered, not matter the outcome. As I have mentioned before I saw the usefulness of this tactic and prayed, "Do whatever in hell you want to, Lord. You're going to anyway."
That one prayer has me covered for the rest of my life. After that, no worries.
August 12 at 1:26 PM asks a provocative question:
"IS HITLER ALIVE, OR DEAD?"
And then answers it:
"Yes."
Apparently Hitler is hiding in the same box with Schroedinger's cat.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Richard
Not all conspiracy theories are crazy. This one might (?) be, but some are actually true. Even the MSM has its own conspiracy theories, but they don't call them that.
Example: the International Atomic Energy Agency has been in Iran checking out all their nuclear facilities and for years now the agency has declared that Iran has NO nuclear weapons program, and has not had one for about 12-15 years, if they ever did. Despite that, goofballs like Gerald Flurry think Iran has a nuclear weapons program. That's because some MSM outlets strongly insinuate that Iran is trying to make nuclear weapons. It's just a crazy and baseless conspiracy theory. And they know it's not true, but they want the public to think it really is true so they have an excuse to invade Iran. About a year ago a poll said about 55% of the US public believes Iran has a nuclear weapons program. The masses are deluded.
Then, anybody who exposes their lies is dismissed as a wacky conspiracy theorist. Duh.
Regarding H. Hoeh, the COGs (and I suspect Hoeh) got some of their historical "information" from "Jewish Tradition" as they called it, without specifically naming the source. Some of this came from the Talmud, the same book that says Jesus is being tortured in hell in a vat of excrement and body fluids. So, why would they trust Jewish sources when those same sources write false and hateful things about the God they worship? How can they consider those sources reliable? I think they didn't want to say it was from the Talumd because maybe they knew how bad the Talmud really was, but they still used it to selectively pick out whatever was useful to them.
4:36
Most of Hoeh sources are Catholic monks.
Are you anti semitic to state such things without knowing what you are talking about.
There are at least 6 monks producing German assyrianism in medieval times. BI sources are 600 century monks linking ireland to spain.
Which are ancient trade routes. And monasticism originating in tje egyptian desert starting the myth of wise sages from egypt starting schools in ireland.
Nck
4:36
You are partly right though. Those medieaval monks had to find an explanation for those large jewish communities in Hapsburg lands and befriend the and establish friendly rekations for monetary purposes. ALMOST THE EXACT reasons EACH and every US presidential candidate needs to befriend the New York rainmakers nowadays and the State of Israel.
There is nothing conspirational about that. Just a matter of survival for the jews and convenient cashflow for rulers ever since.
BI will be around for ever and ever it will never fade as long as power and money are intertwined.
Nck
Who are these monks? What resource can we Google to read what they have to say?
BB
If we are to throw a bone to Jewish historical sources (keepers of the chronicles), they have identified the Germans as Ashkenaz not Assyria. This of course is just as flawed as British Israelism but it shows that lack of agreement on who the Germans are.
The Germans are Indo-European speaking peoples who are essentially the same people as the Scandinavians and Slavs.
Surely all readers can appreciate the concerns regarding using monks as an historical resource in matters of Armstrongite doctrine. The church always doubted Catholics, and branded them as the "whore of Babylon" except when the Catholics actually confirmed one of HWA's theories. They were equally harsh on Jewish historians, once again with the same type of exceptions.
To satisfy my standards, we'd need secular sources from historians who are respected by the majority of their peers.
BB
BB
I will remember that you asked the question. But it difficult to answer in full since I am on the move.
I am taking the question seriously although I commented on the subject on living armstrongism few months ago.
Due to my travelling I can give you one as a starter.
Leopold von Wien or Leopold Steinreiter from the 95 seigneurs. The story he cane up with reflects the 14th century jewish question around Vienna.
You must know about the myth of Trebeta. Also recorded bu monks but last time I looked into the subject I found some 6 monastic sources on German assyrianism.
MY POINT. NOT to proof that Hoeh was right. BUT to enlighten that Hoeh did NOT invent the story.
Nck
BB
There is Gottfried Hagens Reimchronik from 1270.
I did mention the Gesta Treverorum by the archbihops of Trier.
Even by 1783 the jewish kingdom in Austria was regarded as established fact by historians at THAT time.
As I said it must have been a political narrative to spin a political financial reality at the time until the narrative became obsolete because of a new reality.
Nck
I did use some of the names you provided in a preliminary search, nck, and it appears that it is known to historians that it was once common for mythical histories to be created by citizens of certain cities and nations to "prove" that they predated Rome, or were nearly second in importance to Rome.
German Assyrianism is based on the myth of Trebeta, who was allegedly the son of Nimrod, founding the city of Trier in Germany. Oddly enough, HWA taught that Nimrod was a black man, which means that if the myth were true, Trier would have been founded by a black Assyrian, as opposed to the Nordic types whom Hitler called the master race. Somehow, that did not raise any red flags for Dr. Hoeh as he attempted to deal with the table of nations in his Compendium of World History.
Without solid, verifiable history as to where the Germanic tribes came from before settling in Europe, Hoeh apparently relied on these fabricated myths. Some French myths also have the French descending from the Trojans, but in WCG theories, they are said to be the descendants of Reuben. There are folk tales and myths surrounding the Irish, and Anglo-Saxons as well.
There is no historic or archaeologic evidence that Assyrians ever travelled beyond the Caucasus Mountains. They were known as Assyriani, while the ancestors of the Germans were known as Allemani.
If you Google German Assyrian, names like Bob Thiel, Glenn Beck, Herman Hoeh, and Worldwide Church of God come up somewhat commonly. Actually, there was an immigrant community of Assyrians in Germany, but they first arrived in the 1960s, having fled religious persecution in Turkey.
BB
One technique used by the WCG was the making of theoretical, unverifiable practices, heritages, and events of thousands of years ago somehow relevant on our lives today. This was not done in a positive manner as is the life of Jesus Christ by normal, mainstream Christians. It was done in a calculated manner which would yank the rug out from all of us, to make us lose any confidence or joy in the here and now. And even to destroy faith in traditional Christianity. It was all so ridiculous and unnecessary. Satanic, actually.
Never again!
BB
BB
Personally I am not so much interested in the truth of myths. My interest lies in the ideologies, ideas and myths man has used to endure adversity and inspire progress or power.
The Trojan myth might have served a purpose for a few small tribes living around swamp marshes and 7 hills to eventually rule the entire known world.
Other non historical myths served other world changing purpose.
For instance just yesterday I resided in millenial setting where just last century ideologists gathered to completely wean christianity from its jewish roots with dire consequences.
Today that setting wad used for g7 meeting where Obama and Merkel had some tough conversation on Slavic incursions into countries interested in western interpretation of rulership.
Anyway. I'm more interested in the cause of an effect than the validity of that same narrative. In other words I can smell fake news when entire populations sing and dance to the tune.
For instance Powells speech in the UN causing the second Gulf War.
Nck
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