We will give $10,000 dollars to anyone who can:
- Give us a single Bible verse where the weekly Sabbath commandment is quoted in the New Testament. (Almost all the 10 commandments are listed in the New Testament, find the 4th commandment quoted in the New Testament.)
- Give us a single Bible verse after the resurrection of Christ, that says Christians should keep the Sabbath day. (Heb 4:9 is not the weekly Sabbath, but the eternal Sabbath rest in heaven. Looking carefully at the text, you will see four rests in Hebrews 4: 1. Eternal rest in heaven. 2. The creation rest of God in Gen 2:2. 3. Canaan rest in the promised land for the Jews that Joshua gave: Deut. 12:9-10. 4. 7th day Sabbath rest. Hebrews 4 shows that the weekly Sabbath was merely one of three anti-types of our eternal Sabbath rest in heaven! It certainly cannot be a command to keep the weekly Sabbath!)
- Give us a single Bible verse where exclusively Christians came together on the Sabbath day as a church or prayer meeting after the resurrection of Christ. (We have an example of a church meeting with exclusively Christians were in the audience who came together for the purpose of partaking of the Lord's supper and preaching on the first day of the week, Sunday, in Acts 20:7. Paul preaching to Jews on the Sabbath to convert them, is not an example of the church meeting on the Sabbath day, but is an example of Paul going into a Jewish worship service.)
- Give us a single Bible verse where the Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the ten commandments, is found in the book of Genesis. (Sabbatarian preachers always say that Adam and Abraham kept the Sabbath, yet offer no proof! Sabbatarians will find the common word for "rest" in Genesis, but never the special word for the weekly Sabbath!)
Collect your money
here. Imagine how great your next Feast vacation will be with this!
34 comments:
actually, the correct challenge is "show us where in the bible the Sabbath command was abolished"...but anyway,
there is no way to prove anything to anyone...by issuing that challenge, they have shown themselves to have a closed mind, they think they are correct and no one will convince them otherwise.....besides, that's God's job.
I first saw this, or something very similar, decades ago. To my knowledge, nobody has ever been able to collect the $10,000, or pass "Go".
BB
Every group or promoter of their own ideas who offers money to prove them wrong has every apologetic known to man ready to refute you. The money is always safe and no one will ever collect.
Dave Pack could offer $100,000 to anyone who could prove his creationism series wrong and Aron Ra would never collect.
The problem with these types of challenges is that you can make the Bible say whatever you want, if you give it the "proper" interpretation (meaning one's own preferred interpretation).
for example: "Give us a single Bible verse where the weekly Sabbath commandment is quoted in the New Testament."
Someone will surely quote where Jesus stated that not one jot or tittle from the law will pass away (it's still binding), and that would include the 4th commandment, so it was quoted by implication.
(Do understand I'm not arguing this, I really couldn't care less about what a bunch of goat herders thought about their fictitious god in and around the classical age.)
The point is, the Bible states all kinds of things, sometimes explicitly, sometimes implicitly, sometimes in the vaguest of terms, and it all depends on how the modern person is intent on interpreting it.
I would argue that challenging someone in this way is a complete waste of time.
The legalities of this challenge, to me, seem to be akin to the kid explaining to the state trooper to have never heard of such and such law since he never read the corpus. Or the person not paying taxes since he never read an article telling him he should.
But hey, I am not a bible expert and I am very much aware that certain cities in france and germany from a legal perspective, are to this day, at war with the Habsburg Spanish empire since they never sent or failed to send a representative to the peace talks in the 16 hundreds.
I guess that strictly legal position has been rendered obsolete over the past 400 years.
nck
I didn't realize this was a common gimmick among SDAs.
GTA used to offer a $10,000 cashiers check on his TV show to anyone who could find a verse showing that we go to heaven when we die.
I can prove that the 4th commandment is NOT in the new testament. I know that money will never be given to me because I proved to Garner Ted Armstrong back in the 1990's that the seventh day sabbath is not commanded ANYWHERE in the new covenant and he refused to give me the money!
If you believe in God and the Bible, why is it that the only commandment of the ten people don't want to do is the Sabbath?
It's true that people see what they want to see, but that doesn't mean that there is no absolute truth. 'In the beginning God created the heavens and earth' means that there is a firm reality, and if people strive for truth using the scientific method (ie you shall know them by their fruits), the truth is discernible.
Believe it or not, there are people growing in knowledge and wisdom, and in bible understanding.
Ye shall know them by their carefully handpicked and publicized frootZ!
Anon 5:29 AM, Under the new covenant Yeshua Jesus is our sabbath rest! Christians are not under the old covenant!
$100,000 to anyone who could prove his creationism series wrong
Some years ago a well known YEC offered that amount to anyone who could prove evolution to be true. Applying all the conditions of the offer, one would need to demonstrate matter and life coming into existence and the life evolving in order to claim the prize. The offer has apparently been withdrawn.
"Under the new covenant Yeshua Jesus is our sabbath rest!"
This is about the strangest twist in biblical interpretation I have ever seen.
How can a man/personae/entity represent sabbath rest?
The question was about the other 9 commandments.
Does honoring ones parenst reside in Yeshya also, has he done away with that under the NT?
Can we freely murder since we are not under the OT anymore?
Etc
Why is the sabbath singled out by this twisted reasoning/analogy?
What am I missing here?
nck
Noahide law answers a lot of questions, bridges a lot of gaps. Nobody in the ACOGs will even consider it.
BB
Anonymous said...
Anon 5:29 AM, Under the new covenant Yeshua Jesus is our sabbath rest! Christians are not under the old covenant!
December 28, 2017 at 9:42 AM
So God wants you to pick another day to worship him? Not the day Jesus Christ use as an example?
sure...no problem
Just deposit your $10,000.00 into my account first and then I will gladly and easily prove you wrong with a verse. If you prove me wrong I will gladly refund your fake stupid ass challenge chump change.....but bets like these, and the cowards that make them, are never vetted or fleshed out.
I'm waiting.
Cute challenge... the Sabbath is mentioned 60 times in the NT mostly in passing or by example of someone who is keeping it. The only place it appears after the death of Christ is in the book of Acts (ok, one in Col too) where it shows Paul, mostly, teaching on the Sabbath. The reason it doesn't specifically command this is because it was already understood that it should be kept!
the Sabbath represents the time when Christ Returns and abolishes the government of satan, so naturally satan is hostile to any notion of the 7th day...
Obviously nobody here doesn't understand Hebrews 4:1-11.
Jehovah Yahweh is not a simple "god", he is the Father of all creation and he knows you even better than you do!
indeed, and they will not be entering into His Rest...
my father raised me in the Church of God but in the latter years of his life he abandoned the Way and all but denounced the Sabbath...
i can remember the fear i had when i witnessed how he backslid from the Word of God (even speaking against the way he successfully raised me and my sisters): i witnessed this with a nagging sense of doom, and bent over asking for mercy on him...
then one day he made this odd attempt to manipulate me into breaking the Sabbath which caught me totally off guard, and i really began to fear for him, and sure enough it was the last time i saw him alive...
Sounds like he was punished for failing to get the message across to you.
Anon 5:47 said "the sabbath represents the time when Christmas returns and abolishes the government of satan". That is pure hogwash!
A Christian worships The Eternal EVERYDAY! You ACOG cults pick & choose to your own demise.
Obviously nobody here doesn't understand Hebrews 4:1-11.
Right, 6:19, all of us understand it, especially the intertwining of Land Sabbath, Weekly Sabbath, Annual Sabbath and World to Come Sabbath through the book of Hebrews...
9.24 PM
My condolence for your father's falling away. But you're not alone. My family members were never called, but using my church experience as a guide, they will be very hard pressed to qualify for the kingdom.
Offering a $10,000 prize is certainly one way to cause people to consider a more sound doctrinal approach! Might even cause some to disobey the edict against reading theological materials from non-Armstrong sources. One can only hope!
BB
It's interesting that you tried to exclude Heb. 4:9. The word used in that verse is sabbatismos, which means "keeping of the Sabbath". The other words translated "rest" in Hebrews are different words, but this is a specific instruction to keep the Sabbath.
NIV....9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
NEB....9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,
GNT....9 As it is, however, there still remains for God's people a rest like God's resting on the seventh day.
ASV....9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
NRS....9 So then, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God;
I'll take that 10K off your hands now! Send me your contact information so I can collect...like that will ever happen!
well, at one time my mother and father were both in the Church of God; his brother, her sister as well...
my sisters and i were raised in the Church, and two of my cousins as well...
all forsook that Way after the tkachs took over and disrupted everything...i was, and still am, the only one that believes in many of the original teachings, particularly the receipt of, and maintenance of the Holy Sprit, the keeping of the Sabbath and Holy Days...
i do so because i have proven the principles of those Doctrines to myself, and i also believe in the Commandments as guide to every day life, and the Holy Spirit as the POWER needed to keep those Commandments, as Christs own example showed us...
4:43 writes “this [Heb 4:9] is a specific instruction to keep the Sabbath.
Claiming this is a good example of proof-texting.
Wikipedia describes it this way:
Prooftexting (sometimes "proof-texting" or "proof texting") is the practice of using isolated, out-of-context quotations from a document to establish a proposition in eisegesis. Such quotes may not accurately reflect the original intent of the author, and a document quoted in such a manner, when read as a whole, may not support the proposition for which it was cited. The term has currency primarily in theological and exegetical circles...
Many Christian ministers and Christian teachers have used some version of the following humorous anecdote to demonstrate the dangers of prooftexting: "A man dissatisfied with his life decided to consult the Bible for guidance. Closing his eyes, he flipped the book open and pointed to a spot on the page. Opening his eyes, he read the verse under his finger. It read, 'Then Judas went away and hanged himself' (Matthew 27:5b). Finding these words unhelpful, the man randomly selected another verse. This one read, 'Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."' (Luke 10:37b). In desperation, he tried one more time. The text he found was: 'What you are about to do, do quickly.'" (John 13:27).
I'm thinking we should do a group read of Jared Olar's book "The Early Waldenses in History and Sabbatarian Legend."
BB
you will cite ur sources and i will cite the bible...
the bible was first, and the authors of the bible are as good a source as those that u put ur faith in..
Oh??? Since when have the Waldenses been mentioned in the Bible? Are some of you people for real?
BB
Hey BB.
This summer on business in Turin I hiked the Waldensian valleys, villages, schools for the weekend.
Accidentally I walked into/crashed the combined waldensian - methodist ministerial conference out of curiousity. All very welcoming and nice people. Could not get myself to ask about the sabbath but acquired some books on the region and persecution instead.
Even in the 17th century Britain, Sweden and Holland the superpowers of the day would inquire with the French successive Louis' and exert considerable pressure to leave these people be as they marched across the mountains (now named after them) with their "people" on a death trail.
I have in my home the grand inquisitors records from mirepoix and foix region.
A great read and testament as to the Catholic effort to understand what was going on in the Pyrenees and other mountaineous regions. It seemed there was a wild arrangement of dissenting voices and the inquisitors had a hard time saving souls since there questioning did not lead them to understand what inspired these people to defect from the faith once delivered in Rome.
Thorough and good questions asked though. I could have gotten along well with these clever interrogators. I would have had a hard time with those self taught lay preachers, preaching by heart from parts of scripture, breaching the peace and drawing entire isolated villages into eternal damnation.
On the other I might have cried/weeped at home privately for the peasants brave and naive explanation of their living active faith in the face of those tasked to restore order in the universe and the representing realm on earth.
Nck
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