I've been in LCG for a long time. In the beginning, I was 100% enthusiastic and fully invested in the work. After the split there was an air of wanting to be better, to do better and to genuinely SERVE the brethren but it didn't take long before the same ego-driven attitudes of the leading men started to taint the waters. It progressively got worse as the years went by. I stuck it out for the last years of Dr. Meredith's life even though, at times, it was gruelling. The constant begging for money and emphasis on negativity in his letters prompted me to stop even opening them. The tedium and boring repetition of the magazine articles and the telecasts was just as predictable and BORING as the letters so I stopped watching and reading them. The frequent "next 3-5 years" failed prophecies were disheartening at first but then they just became cliche and made Mr. Meredith look foolish.
When Rod McNair came to Charlotte the slow, downward path of LCG seemed to really accelerate. The back-biting and lies grew tenfold. The spying on my fellow brethren and the unfair (seemingly cruel) punishments that were doled out with regularity were even more discouraging and upsetting than the lameness of the work (there's a reason for the very limited growth). I watched the ministers of my church do horrible things to good people with no explanation or remorse but I still believed in keeping the Sabbath and the Holy Days so I didn't know what to do. I convinced my self that it was a trial by God to check my faithfulness and loyalty, so I stayed but my heart wasn't the same. I was so disappointed in LCG.
The sermons on submitting to the ministry and the ruling with fear instead of love (example: If you don't obey the ministry you won't be a pillar in the kingdom because God won't know that he can rely on you. Or, if you don't blindly obey the ministry, you might be disobeying orders that are preliminary to instructions on how to flee to the place of safety) were so repetitive that I could have easily given them myself because I heard them week after week, over and over again. I started doing my own Bible studies to for spiritual fulfilment because we certainly weren't getting it at church. I still looked forward to Sabbath services because of the fellowship.
Government, government, sex, government, death, mayhem, tribulation, destruction, 5 to 10 years, homosexuals, government. I sit and wonder, "the Bible is SO full of things to preach about, why is this all my church ever talks about???"
It was plain to see that Dr. Meredith wouldn't be around for too much longer so I told myself to stick it out until he died. Maybe things would be better under a new evangelist, right? Maybe a man who cared more about God than his own agenda and politics would get the position and LCG would be renewed. Maybe Dr. Meredith's replacement would fire the vain, tyrannical boot-lickers that had risen to the top and become the cancer that was killing the whole operation. Maybe.
I was actually very pleased when Gerald Weston was announced as Dr. Meredith's successor. I knew him socially and he seemed like a guy that wouldn't respond well to corruption. He obviously wasn't warm or overtly loving and kind but he seemed steady, fair and honest. I had hoped that he would weed out the bad seeds at LCG headquarters and get the ship back on track.
Gerald Weston has all but doubled-down on everything that was ruining LCG under Dr. Meredith. The McNairs seem to be able to tell him what to do and when to do it without limitation. Instead of breathing new life into the church, the downward spiral has again been sped up.
Am I the only one who sees this? I'm scared to talk to my LCG friends about it because you can't trust people not to turn you in. I don't know what to do. I had really hoped Mr. Weston would fix things. With no fix in sight, I am left feeling so discouraged.
Sincerely,
Sickened In Charlotte
52 comments:
The Continual, Never-Ending LOOP that COG people constantly find themselves in:
1. Notice the wickedness, destructive, satanic behavior all around them.
2. Hate what's going on in their church.
3. Feel the need to keep the Sabbath and Holy Days.
4. Stick it out because you have to keep the Sabbath and Holy Days.
5. On the bright side, it's good to go there for fellowship.
6. Hope something will change, eventually.
7. Nothing changes, it just gets WORSE.
8. Become more depressed, more disheartened, more sick, more disgusted.
9. Notice the wickedness, destructive, satanic behavior all around them.
10. Loop back to point one and start all over.
And down, down, down the hill they go, trapped - and sickened.
I have one question to all those who are trapped in these satanic claws:
Where's Jesus in ANY of this?
I have another question:
How in the WORLD can one possibly "keep" days holy in an environment of wickedness and corruption? Everything that this poster described is: (In the poster's words)
"discouraging and upsetting"
"unfair (seemingly cruel) "
" tedium and boring repetition"
"constant begging for money"
"emphasis on negativity"
" ministers of my church do horrible things to good people"
"no explanation or remorse"
"ruling with fear instead of love"
"spiritual fulfilment because we certainly weren't getting it at church"
" vain, tyrannical boot-lickers"
"the downward spiral"
" I'm scared "
"you can't trust people"
"I am left feeling so discouraged. "
Honestly. If you read these accounts on Yelp of ANY other place. If you read these accounts ANYWHERE of any other place, NO ONE would EVER want to step foot in ANY place like this. Because what is being described is not a church.
What is being described is an abusive regime. What is being described is evil. What is being described is NOT a church. If you took Living out of it, if you even took "church" out of it, if you just read how horrible this person is feeling about it - you would ask yourself, WHY in the world is this person still going? What is compelling this person to keep going to this place week after week after week if this is what one has to look forward to? Why would one willingly subject themselves to such a dark, horrible place?
It's really sad that one would subject themselves to this INHUMANE treatment (yes, that's what it is), because they feel they have to keep "Holy Days" in such an UNHOLY environment. Do you see the disconnect? And the person feels they don't know what to do, and the person feels trapped. So, they go back, week after week, year after year, and willingly subject themselves to abuse.
The truth is: You cannot keep the Sabbath holy, nor can you keep a holy day holy, in an environment that is distinctly UNHOLY. Not only is that disrespecting beliefs that you obviously hold dear, it's like trying to find a ray of sunshine in the middle of a tornado. It does not work. It never will work.
You're entitled to your personal choice and right to keep the Sabbath and Holy Days if you choose to. But if I may present you with just a tad of advice, if you so choose to hear me? If you want to keep the Sabbath and Holy Days, do so with a focus on Jesus Christ - the opposite of EVERYTHING you describe here. And do so in an environment that is not wicked and discouraging and depressing, and everything that Christianity is not. You do not deserve to have to endure this. And pray, pray, and pray hard - and ask God to show you the Way. Jesus said HE is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. If you don't know what to do, and you believe in Jesus Christ, then He will show you.
I wish you the best and hope that things get better for you.
And one more example:
Trying to keep the Sabbath and Holy Days in an unholy environment is like trying to keep the Passover in the middle of a strip club.
I hope that sinks in.
I would confront the ministry of the LCG with your concerns. If they disfellowship you then you know they don't have the love of God in their hearts. You have other options!
Living Church of God closely monitors this site. They know how members feel and see what is written. Do they care? No! There has been no attempt to correct any of the abuses that have been pointed out on this blog. Their excuse is that it is a just a few miserable members who don't want to submit to government and have a Laodicean attitude. They throw out the "bitter" label and that somehow makes what they do OK. To admit any wrong sends them down a slippery slope to having to acknowledge publicly their issues.
You need to take a long look at everything beginning with that book of lies you put your faith in and especially the interpretation of those lies by those in power. Take a long hard look like me and others have and you will soon learn that there never was an all powerful, omni-everything creator, which means there never was any seven-day creation for you to commemorate every week. There was no world-wide flood while civilizations flourished right here in the western hemisphere and all over the world, no captivity and exodus, no historical Jesus -- it's all a Roman imperial concoction to unify the Roman world by recycling savior myths. That book call Revelation is just a wild tale from someone's nightmares or flights of fancy. It's a shattering awakening, but you need to accept the fact that you've "been had."
The saddest thing about the LCG ministry, is how much they parallel the Pharisees. In their minds they are the lily white exterior... while being totally rotten from the inside.
Being a part of both Global and Living, the tragic thing I saw was how clueless the people WANT to remain .... to totally hand over all responsibility to the ministry and never seem to ask even the basic of questions about the effectiveness of the organization and are there ANY thing that needs improving.
Of course this plays right into the hands of the Pharisaical Money Changers whose 2 bullets are simply .... keep them in the dark and then convince them they are in the brightest of circumstances.
I truly wonder how these men who are so conceited and arrogant how they truly believe God will ultimately judge them, since they themselves are like the blind leading the blind?
I left LCG because it wasn’t just the same old same old.... it was though they had become so “right in their own eyes” that God or Christ themselves, would be banned and tagged as inferior, to their lofty positions of abject double standards of behavior.
Great letter. Time to leave. Come out from this oppressive environment. I did. So have many others. Still keep the sabbath and holy days. When unloving men teach the sabbath etc they condition people to associate gods laws with feeling bad. This is a very clever use of conditioning theory on the Adversary's part and it has caused many to reject gods holy days etc. you need to focus on all the things living church has ignored. The fruits of the Holy Spirit include love joy peace kindness goodness gentleness. I saw little of these in wwcg and ucg. You will have a better life when you get away from the weekly assault on your mind. These grim men are not speaking for god. God is not about government and hierarchy. God wants a family with relationships based on love just like our human families. When you have a baby born into your family, you don't look at him and think, another member oto rule over. You look at him with love. You look after him with joy and willingly. You love him. Coming out of lcg or wwcg is freeing You then have to learn that god loves you like a son. You need to develop self compassion in order to love yourself. You can't love your neighbour if you don't love yourself. You love e your neighbour as yourself. Self compassion will have been drummed out of you in the church. You will have done things out of duty obligation and fear. Guilt shame fear anxiety have been drummed into you. These are not good to have as part of you. Guilt and shame are appropriate when you have done wrong but they're not to be your constant companions. We are not to lord it over one another. We are equals with Christ as our head. Some have xn ability to teach. You'll recognise them if and when you find them. Please don't be in a hurry to let someone just like living church ministers be your guru. Look for kindness and gentleness in people who say they belong by to god. You are gods Ng to go in to na new phase of your calling and god will show you what to do. Don't be afraid to leave your comfortably uncomfortable prison. God wants you to be at peace, keeping his sabbath and holy days without being mistreated and discouraged on a weekly basis. Be glad and rejoice that god is showing you the way forward. Be strong. Move forward. Don't let anyone discourage you by trying to make you afraid of leaving lcg.
"And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matthew 24:10-13
we were warned that the end time would at the very least be disheartening, and that we should endure until the end; and the Power to so endure comes from God in man, and man obeying God to insure that Power remains...
c f yochanan
I remember as a youngster reading a very popular children's book called "Charlottes Web"
.
Charlotte a spider, spun this message for the world to behold, and it certainly applies to the current Charlotte NC LCG too!
It read...
"SOME PIG! "
I did not have much exposure to Gerald Weston. But I did have some.
I encountered him at SEP several decades ago when he was a dorm parent for one of our dorms. I found him to be friendly, but cool - and somewhat distant I guess. But what struck in my memory with him was a simple encounter I never forgot.
I don't remember if I was a camper at SEP at this time or if I was a high school worker. I'm thinking I was a high school worker. Anyway, for whatever reason, fellowship time at camp was just ending, and all the people were supposed to go from the fellowship area (a nice grassy wooded area where you could lounge around and eat your frogurts) to the dining hall area. Everyone was supposed to go a *certain* way, for some reason, and not go through a particular area. I don't remember why.
Anyway, I was at my station, pointing out to people to walk *this* way to get to the dining hall area. Most people obliged very politely, ok, and yada yada, you know the drill - kind of like those parking attendants at the Feast.
So up walks Gerald Weston. I wasn't told to make any exceptions. I knew he was a minister. But I did not want to get into trouble for not doing my job. So, I didn't make an exception and also indicated where they were supposed to walk.
When I indicated, Gerald did a kind of a smirky smirk, and a chuckle, and a slight shake of the head, which basically said in my young mind, "You think you're going to tell ME where to go?" It made me feel very small and almost stupid. You might know "the look" I'm talking about. I felt weird, like he thought something like "He has no right to tell ME, a Pastor, where to walk...but he's just a kid so I'll give him a pass."
Might I have misinterpreted this because of oversensitivities? Might I have thought more of it than it was? Maybe. But it doesn't change the fact that that simple look, that simple expression made me feel stupid, small, and worthless. There was no hi, there was no how are you, nothing that made me feel warm and like I was doing my job well.
Just a feeling of "ptth. You're trying to tell ME where to go? ptthh.. Nice try kid."
It should be made plain to ACOG members that one does not have to attend church services in order to keep the holy days. HWA in his holy day booklet misleads the reader by pointing out that the holy days are a commanded convocation, defined in dictionaries as a commanded assembly. What Herb hid is that the convocation can be with Christ and God the Father alone. Church attendance is not a legal requirement to keep the holy days.
One can be a stay-at-home Christian without jeopardizing ones salvation. It's the work out your salvation with fear and trembling thingy.
CF Y... Gospel Jesus in the Matthew 24 dialogue was not talking to YOU or US. He was talking to THEM. He was not projecting ahead outside of His or their time. "This Generation" means THEM. It does not mean and never meant "The generation for whom all these things happen to shall not pass until...." It meant THEM. Just as Revelation is a failed prophecy of the first century, Matthew 24 did not work out as advertised and does not mean that this is because it was for US not them. Jesus did not feel he had been forsaken for nothing, apologetics of God having to turn his back on Jesus etc aside.
I realize this reality of failed prophecy and that not written for us is hard to swallow and accept but you cannot add up all the soons, shortlys , nights being far spent and behold I come quickly and come to any other conclusion about the failure of the End Times as promised to THEM in the NT. Even Paul was mistaken and finally had to admit that he would not be alive and remain and would not be changed excaping death. He was simply wrong and mislead his followers just as those do today.
That is failed them is no justification for then saying it failed because it was about US and never about them. That is simply missing the point.
Dennis
Matthew 24 does says that unless those days are shortened, no flesh will be saved. So Christ was addressing our present nuclear age, rather than his generation,
Christ was 'forsaken' on the cross because the holy spirit was unexpectedly withdrawn due to Christ representing sin on the cross.
The only thing that's 'hard to swallow' is that Dennis has done a Darth Vader and defected to the dark side.
I’d say there is currently no relief in sight for the LCg brethren in North Carolina. Their leaders obviously need to mellow out, but unfortunately medical marijuana is not yet legal in that state. The tyrants and despots would most likely have no problem obtaining their cards, considering their mental conditions, but even though there is just a small fine, so long as there is even the hint of illegality, the Pharisees will not unburden themselves from their oppressive natures. Wouldn’t it be nice if Willie Nelson could be one of your evangelists, LCg people?
Anonymous said...
Dennis
Matthew 24 does says that unless those days are shortened, no flesh will be saved. So Christ was addressing our present nuclear age, rather than his generation,"
"No flesh will be saved" falls into the same context in the NT as "The whole world was to be taxed..." Luke 2:1 Hyperbole, as in Revelation is a writing style of the times. Christ being forsaken because...is later theology made up to cover the outcome of the original story and you can't prove that is the reason for anything. It is just your thoughts on the matter after the fact.
It's bright sunshine on this side as well... :)
I totally agree with sentiments regarding disappointment with lack of removal of the oppressive "ministers", and also with the wish of someplace else to go. I still be believe in the Bible although the "teachers" make a mockery of it with their hypocrisy.
It is interesting to note the description of the church in the Bible. Is church described as a nice place full of Christians living lives led by Jesus Christ? Well let's see:
- Were the apostles the nicest kindest people? Some of the apostles hypocritically shunned Gentiles (Gal. 2:11-21).
- Was the leadership solid in the truth? Some of them turned away (II Tim. 4:10). Some of them rejected even the apostles (3 John 1:10).
- And if we go back to the OT, we have leadership breaking basically every one of the commandments (I Sam. 2 - 4).
- What is the church going to look like through time? The descriptions in Rev. 2-3 tell us what to look for - and the overwhelming amount of time it isn't anything pretty. The descriptions of the condition of God's church through time make it hard to imagine how it can actually still be God's church with all the wrong things going on, and yet, the letters to the churches are to God's churches, not to those of satan.
I realize this doesn't give much hope for change for the better, but at least it provides a perspective. God's church isn't always the nice place with friendly people. Don't be discouraged!
J
Dennis
The rest of Matthew says things like 'the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. And the tribes of the earth will mourn when they see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with great power and glory. And the angels will gather the elect from one end of heaven to the other.'
These have not happened before, unless you start buying into the JW embarrassing explanations of Christ returning secretly and WW1 being the tribulation etc. Hmm, why would the tribes mourn if Christ has returned secretly?
Anon 10:14 PM wrote:
It is interesting to note the description of the church in the Bible. Is church described as a nice place full of Christians living lives led by Jesus Christ?... God's church isn't always the nice place with friendly people.
The Bible never tells us that the leaders in Ephesus warned Ephesians against joining the Philadelphia church, or vice versa. Rather, the Bible alerts us about the kind of fake "Christian" a real Christian must avoid. If you say, "My church's leaders remind me of Diotrephes" then the answer isn't to stay, pay, and obey. Rather, it is your Christian duty to remove yourself from their midst.
What happens if you stay? From what I have observed of my current and former friends in LCG, they are exactly like the boiling frog that we hear about so often. The more you get used to tolerating lies and cruelty, the more you become desensitized, and even while you criticize such conduct in your leaders you are more likely to adopt such conduct yourself, even without realizing it. Please, for your eternal spiritual good, get out while you still can!
The descriptions of the condition of God's church through time make it hard to imagine how it can actually still be God's church with all the wrong things going on, and yet, the letters to the churches are to God's churches, not to those of satan.
Anonymous 10:14 AM, I suspect you are overlooking one important detail. When those seven churches were singled out for description in Revelation 2-3, there were in fact HUNDREDS of churches already established in various cities. We do not know how many of those churches were most like Ephesus, and how many were most like Philadelphia, and how many were like the other churches described. As you know, there have always been "Philadelphia attitudes" and "Ephesus attitudes" and "Laodicea attitudes" in every church, in every church era. Revelation doesn't counsel Christians in the Laodicean churches to settle for a Laodicean condition; it counsels them to rise above that and be their best. As such, when you see in your church leaders a hypocrisy and even an evil that disqualifies them as leaders, the Bible counsels you to find another church. Yes, church leaders are just as human as church members, so they won't be perfect anywhere you go. But there is a tremendous difference between an imperfect Christian making some mistakes, and a so-called "Christian" leader using the church to feather his own nest and bully Christians into fearful obeisance.
if you don't blindly obey the ministry, you might be disobeying orders that are preliminary to instructions on how to flee to the place of safety
The ministry in LCG don't even obey each other blindly, so how can they expect members to obey them blindly? One of my biggest shocks when I came to Charlotte was to discover that there are several little cliques of ministers and their pets, each of whom will privately tear down other ministers in ways that would get a member disfellowshipped if such talk ever became public.
4.13 AM
Exactly. Christ cursed the fig tree that looked good from afar (like the outer face of a abusive cult) but was in fact unfruitful. Christ hates loss. A reminder that the purpose of a relationship with a individual or a group is profit. If a constant loss occurs, cut the tree down. Otherwise one is in the Esau territory of selling ones future for a bowl of soup.
I was just reading Jeremiah where God condemned Israel for not listening to his voice or walking in his ways. In the ACOGs they hide that Christ leads every Christian personally, so they hardly teach members to heed Gods voice. They feed members spiritual milk, if that. So they are not teaching members to walk in Gods way.
All they do is brainwash members to allow themselves to be dominated by the ministers which they in Big Brother Ministry of Truth style call 'submitting to Gods government.' Dominating others makes a relationship with God or a moral code ineffective, hence meaningless.
Anonymous said...
4.13 AM
Exactly. Christ cursed the fig tree that looked good from afar (like the outer face of a abusive cult) but was in fact unfruitful. Christ hates loss."
On the other hand, in Mark 11, as Jesus is entering the temple he stops to inspect a fig tree to find out if it has any fruit. It doesn't, which Mark tells us is "because it was not the season for figs." Jesus then proceeds to curse the tree, saying "May no one ever eat from from you again."
While the point seems to be that just as fig trees that bare no fruit should not be allowed to stand,so the Temple, that appears to bare no real spiritual fruit will not stand etc, it is strange that the story includes the reason for no fruit is that IT WAS NOT THE SEASON FOR FIGS" So why blame the tree?
Some think it is a scribal error by someone who did not understand the story to begin with. But as "inspired" it makes no sense to blame the tree whose time for fruit was not yet.
So while we can make all sorts of pronouncements about the meaning today about the COGs or any church that does not seem to meet our standards, when we do that, we actually rewrite the story and add to the story that which it was not originally meant to mean or for whom or what it was meant to be addressed to.
The phrase, "for it was not the season for figs" is an enigma. Mark, being the first Gospel written seems to have had it edited out in later accounts such as in Matthew 21, the next Gospel to come along chronologically.
Dennis
According to the wikipedia 'cursing the fig tree' article, there is a early fig called taqsh on the common fig tree, just before the main crop. If there is no taqsh, then there will be no main crop that year. It appears Christ was responding to this, and cursed the tree.
To sickened in Charlotte. I have experienced similar in another COG.
My advice is to try another COG, regroup and rebuild elsewhere if you can. I know others who are trying out COGWA.
But most importantly is to tell God in your prayers.
We might not think God is doing anything but He is. I was given this advice by a well known pastor from WCG when things were swirling around. He said to never give up, keep going and never stop doing good even if your surrounded and outnumbered by those who do no good. Never drop your standards. Good luck to you.
Something to ponder is that God doesn't necessarily 'fix' bad churches. The pattern in Gods dealings with people is to REMOVE His presence from a sinful nation or organisation. He did that to his temple in Jerusalem for instance. This 'God will make things right' belief, denies self responsibility and free moral agency, both taboo in the church.
Perhaps that explains it but then it is corrected or left out in later accounts
There are options. I left COGAIC for COGWA awhile back because I was tired of their "exclusiveness". (Some of the ministry) I find COGWA to be warm and loving. Another good option in COG, The Father's Call.
This is a really good point. Wish I thought if it! Thanks
Sickened, don't go to COGWA, you will just hear R Kelley speaking about loyalty and obedience to the organization and ministers.
This is what I've found 9:13 anon. You know and sense it. No one ever discuss it but many know when God has left.
I once started attending a well known Church organisation and immediately felt a horrific feeling at their Sabbath services. I had never felt it before and I hope I never do again. My gut feeling that all was not well was duly confirmed over the years.
No COG is perfect but you do get sense the better ones from the worse. That is the real reason many brethren are wandering around.
Sickened, don't go to COGWA, you will just hear R Kelley speaking about loyalty and obedience to the organization and ministers.
There is nothing wrong with loyalty. The catch is that loyalty must be earned. When the local COGWA pastor refused to go along with Rod McNair's bullying tactics, after McNair called and tried to trash the Scarboroughs' name with their new pastor, he took an important step toward earning the couple's' loyalty.
Is COGWA perfect? Of course not. Does it have a few ministerial blowhards? Of course it does. On the whole, however, some of God's people have found it much easier to grow spiritually while associated with COGWA than with LCG. For people who want to practice Armstrongism in an environment less abusive and cultic than LCG, it may be one of the better choices.
1.06 PM
But the problem is that these XCOGs leaders teach that trust and loyalty are entitlements rather than having to be earned. They demand the effect while rejecting the cause by their abuse of members. This is plain bully morality with no faith in Gods laws.
As Christ asked, will He find faith (in his laws) on His return? Unfortunately, no.
The odd good minister can be a trap. Members open up about their problems, only to discover after his departure, that their personal details have been passed on to the new minister. This information is then used as a club by the new minister.
Beware of 'good' ministers.
Of course, if we're taking Dennis as the centerpoint, hes been told on this thread that "no flesh should be saved" refers to the world population total, yet on another he's been told that "the whole world" does not mean the whole world.
Of course, both assume he was ever present in those churches in the first place.
All these splinters have a common "parent". When the parent is poisoned all the offspring are poisoned. This is true especially when the offspring claim to teach and continue what the parent spewed out and did. I don't think you can "unpoison" these groups. The best one can do is get out and begin to heal and recover.
yeah, i bet there were jews during Christs time that made similar presumptuous proclamations about the first coming of the Messiah...
at least those jews had the mantle of Moses, despite their disbelief...not sure by what authority you speak...
c f ben yochanan
I left a splinter to try another one, When I arrived at cogwa I heard a strong sermon lambasting a member for saying he struggles with third tithe. The minister went on to say that no one has ever gone homeless for paying third tithe (how dare the member suggest that possibility) . I got to realise how contaminated all these groups are, some are worst, most start benign until they settle then they reveal their true nature, after all a good tree produce good fruit a corrupt tree produces corrupt fruit. I choose to decide my own fate and give myself time to heal away from these Cogs that has left so many psychologically and spiritually scarred including myself, maybe I will even be able to restart my spiritual journey anew someday.
7.26 PM
Third tithe was Israels social security system. There's nothing spiritual about it. People already pay much more than that amount through their taxes. So there is morally no need to pay it.
But since the ministers have turned it into their de facto retirement fund, these churches still demand payment.
I have never heard COGWA mention third tithe. Are you mistaking cogwa for another ? The COGWA with UCG splinters do not teach or even mention third tithe let alone lambast a member in a sermon.
RSK,
Your 4.22 PM comment ignores the context that was described earlier. 'No flesh should be saved' was even the theme of the 1959 movie 'On the beach' starring Gregory Peck.
"There are options. I left COGAIC for COGWA awhile back because I was tired of their "exclusiveness". (Some of the ministry) I find COGWA to be warm and loving. Another good option in COG, The Father's Call."
My experience with COGWA is that they are HWA worshipers.
COGAIC has been warm and inviting, and there is quite a diversity of topics covered, no getting hung up on any one particular issue like LCG does every week.
The Father's Call was started based on a lie. So, if they are deceptive from the start, how can you ever trust them? Their services seem to be just a big group hug, apologizing for past wrongs, or something. I can't figure them out.
Anon 9:19 AM asserted:
The Father's Call was started based on a lie. So, if they are deceptive from the start, how can you ever trust them?
If that's the measure, then HWA/WCG must also be disqualified. HWA, baptized by a non-COG minister, deceived COG7 and misrepresented in multiple ways his association with them. He then wrote his famous "1939 letter" asserting his right to practice a form of Church government that in the 1950s he turned around and rejected, returning to a model like the COG7 but more cultish. He taught for years that Mussolini would be the Beast, then when that prophecy failed he regrouped and then lied several more times about end-time prophecy.
Next to that, The Father's Call is pure as the driven snow, having nothing more than minor differences of perspective with Hulme/COGAIC when compared to HWA's decades of blatant lies.
Where’s nck? Did the Austrians arrest him?
BB
BB
I've been busy.
For one single moment I found myself surrounded by the Crown and symbols of the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation, the Holy Lance, the Cross and nails from the cross. The bones of John.
I found myself in trance and BEHOLD a LADY appeared into the room. I beckoned her to come forward and lo, it was a chinese lady, girdled with a superman t- shirt.
And the times were DELAYED, at Munich airport for the apparition of another, but this time veiled lady. And they managed to arrest her not, so the wings of eagles were delayed no more.
Nck
To Sickened in Charlotte,
I am also in the LCG congregation. I also had hoped that Mr. Weston would get us back on track. I was sure that he would wait a few months to settle in and then start firing people (starting with Jim Meredith, Wyatt Ciesielka and Rod McNair). I waited for change and prayed.
At this point it is obvious that Mr. Weston isn't going to fix the problem.
I am just as sad as you are. Too bad we are in the same congregation but we can't connect. I'd love to send you a sign or give you a clue where to meet me but it's just not worth the risk of discovery by Rod McNair and the SS.
I guess I'm writing this just so you know you aren't alone.
May God grant us the wisdom to lead our families in the right direction.
To 6:46 AM and Sickened...
I suspect that more of us in Charlotte than we realize. I also attend in Charlotte, and I am realistic enough to accept that the families of HQ employees have no real choice other than to keep on attending. I am also realistic enough to accept that I cannot change Mr. Weston's mind or his heart. Even as the income drops, which makes it harder to do a significant Work, Mr. Weston would rather have a smaller and "more unified" church even if it won't grow to do the Work more powerfully as Dr. Meredith envisioned. Unfortunately, from what I see in our Charlotte brethren, many are unified more by fear of the ministry than by love of God or zeal to do a powerful Work.
Recently, I talked with a former Charlotte member who got caught up in one of McNair's bogus inquisitions, though he was never directly accused, and he managed to leave without being disfellowshipped and marked. I was struck by just how much happier he seems now that he hasn't been subjected continually to the soul-crushing HQ congregation environment for a couple of years. I wish I could do what he has done. He says he won't come back to Charlotte unless Mr. Weston fixes some things, because he is sure that if he came back and spoke truthfully he would quickly be disfellowshipped and marked.
I don't know that I agree with you, though, about those three names needing to be fired. People have different strengths, and sometimes mature as a result of their experiences. I would not fault Mr. Weston if he chose not to fire those three, but instead transferred them to new assignments away from Charlotte. Maybe move Jim Meredith to a pastorate near some family members? Maybe send Mr. Rod McNair overseas again, but with more supervision than he had when he screwed things up in the Philippines? Maybe move Mr. Ciesielka to a region where there neither seniors to brown-nose nor juniors to oppress? Maybe make him Regional Pastor for the Middle East, then watch as his massive ego gets infected with Jerusalem Syndrome?
You are right that it would be wonderful if we could somehow send signals to each other at services without Rod McNair and his spies catching on. I wonder what we could do? Suggestions, anyone?
Anon 6:46 wrote:
I was sure that he would wait a few months to settle in and then start firing people (starting with Jim Meredith, Wyatt Ciesielka and Rod McNair).
Rod Meredith was a blabbermouth, who I am sure told his son Jim about all sorts of negative things that could undermine Mr. Weston. Do you really think Weston would have the courage to fire him?
Rod McNair is enough of an insider that I am sure he also has all sorts of dirt on Charlotte and its senior men Do you picture Weston having the courage to risk seeing even a part of that dirt spilled?
Ciesielka I'm not sure about. He isn't a connected insider by family, like the other two, but he was close enough to the Meredith family that he probably knows a lot of their dirt. Ciesielka isn't very well respected, though, so Weston might take the calculated risk that he wouldn't be believed by loyal LCG members if he decided to spill the beans and refuse a non-disclosure separation agreement.
All in all, I expect more of the same from Weston, a man who was trained much more by Rod Meredith than by HWA.
As a former Charlotte congregation member speaking to those of you here who want to connect with each other: You might as well do it. If they discipline you for this, it'll just do two things. They will risk exposing themselves as the weak, paranoid spoiled children they are, and they will risk having you tell others why you were disciplined, which will just lead others to this website.
Scared of getting kicked out? Think seriously about this: Do you REALLY think living in an atmosphere like that "church" is what God wants for you? Does the Bible say anything to make you think His church is supposed to be a miserable thing to be a part of? Is any of what you experience in that organization consistent with the fruits of the Spirit listed in Galatians 5? Don't believe someone (minister or not) "has the Holy Spirit" just because they say they have it. Test them against the Bible,and if they are shown to be liars, then get away from them.
To the poster who said LCG can't fire Jim, Wyatt and the Evil Rod McNair:
Even if these men "know too much" and Weston is afraid they have too much dirt on the tyranny and corruption at LCG HQs, Weston still has the upper hand.
None of these men have any money of which to speak. In order to get a severance from LCG they will have to sign the same non-disclosure agreement that every other ex-employee has to sign before they are given their hush money.
Plus, seeing as these 3 men have no other skill set, it is very likely that they would just join forces with one of the other 300 WCG splinter groups. If they spilled the beans on LCG, it would certainly make their new employer question the risk involved in bringing them into the fold. After all, the other splinters are really no better and they all have their share of skeletons in the closet to protect.
If COGWA was closer I would probably defect.
I have visited them when I am out of town and they seem the same as LCG but nice.
I have family in COGWA and they don't seem to have the same issues LCG has.
I just don't feel like schlepping my kids 2 hours north for morning services.
Spill the beans? Sound more like they’d be taking the beans with them to their new ACOG. They are the beans!
None of these men have any money of which to speak. In order to get a severance from LCG they will have to sign the same non-disclosure agreement that every other ex-employee has to sign before they are given their hush money. Plus, seeing as these 3 men have no other skill set, it is very likely that they would just join forces with one of the other 300 WCG splinter groups.
Which other group would take Jim Meredith? He has his share of his father's estate, which the next LCG audit will prove didn't give very much to LCG. He has a rich brother who has left the church. If Weston were to fire him, Jim would move to Florida and do whatever he wanted to do. Weston cannot control him.
Ciesielka, before he was a minister, was a sleazy and corrupt salesman. He can use those skills again to make a lot of money.
McNair, however, would be helpless without a church paycheck. Weston can control him completely, so we must assume that he is dong exactly what Weston wants him to be doing.
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