Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
End Time True Church Government Structure Revealed
submitted by Anon
24 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Some of man's greatest achievements have been motivated by a driving need for love & acceptance. What happens when that need for recognition, becomes a desire to be revered, and then worshipped...like a god?
I've never seen an organizational structure so ripe for turnover, argumentation, rebellious behavior, mutiny, scheming and intrigue! In fact, I can't even imagine such a structure (if it was actually possible it was reality) would hold up in a breeze. It's like a Jenga Tower with every brick ready to collapse.
And let's just pretend for one minute that this was the way it was.
How fast do you think Herbert Armstrong, being at the "top" of this organizational structure, would fire and disfellowship and throw out everybody under him? How fast do you think Herbert Armstrong would topple out Malm? I can guarantee you he wouldn't put up with a second of their shenanigans. The only reason why they can do anything today is because the Armstrong Churches of God have no backbone, no power, no nothing. They're as weak as weak could possibly be. Armstrongism is the namby-pamby sissy religion they always dreaded to be.
It's just like you took the two old guys in the back of the auditorium at church who thought they knew it all (every congregation had a couple of these) and suddenly nobody cared, and those two geezers took over. No training, no experience, no nothing - but big heads and egos trying to make something of themselves.
That chart missed out on the details within the broad "Regular Member" category, the only category most ACOG members will ever inhabit. Within that category are:
Unpaid Elders AC Graduates Deacons Audiovisual Crew First Aid Crew Parking Crew Security Crew Greeters Deaconesses Cooks Food Service
Depending on the local pastor, ministers' kids rank either just below Unpaid Elders, or just above Christ.
Welcome to Armstrongism, where it's so important to rule that everyone must aspire to be at least an assistant-assistant something. You just had to be on the ladder and vigorously attempting to climb! Otherwise? You got labeled NMH (no male hormones).
There's a lot of truth in the chart. On many occasions, (different) ministers said to me something like "according to HWA.." or "since you don't agree with HWA.." What happened to God? Where's mention of Christ? Isn't He rather than Herb the head of the church? It seems these ministers want the British system of God being the figurehead like the queen, with real power residing with Herb, his minions and bootlickers. A repeat of ancient Israel asking for a king.
Oh how you jest! What a supersonic imagination you have putting them so far up there. We all know this is ridiculous....ludicrous....because the regular church members are never to be on the structure lists. Their lowlife, trailer trash and plebs. We the elite are Gods Government, we rule they listen.
"""he "bottom" of the hierarchy is a divorced woman, with kids, on third tithe assistance. That is the pits of the food chain in the COG.
October 16, 2018 at 6:07 PM" ""
************************************************
Third tithe assistance, what a joke.
When I quit the WCG in early Feb. 1992 the 1991 audit had been printed in the WWN. Total income that year was about 220 million dollars.
The amount for third tithe assistance was eight million. When I pointed that out to the corporate representative aka the minister, he said there were a lot of widows in the church.
I told him that he didn't get it, that WCG made 220 million, if just 100 million was from 1st tithe then they should be getting about 33 million a year in third tithe. What happened to the rest?
We now know what happened to the rest, and I'm sure it was more than 33 million because 1st tithe had to have been more than 100 million.
Hi Kevin. That is not at all how 3rd tithe was calculated. Most comments regarding tithing on this blog have been gross misrepresentations. (no pun intended)
By 1985 at least the European churches were excluded from mandatory 3rd tithe because of up to 60 percent government taxation to fund a better system than 3rd tithe for curing the sick and assisting the disabled.
Good day NCK, would European funds be calculated in a U.S. audit? I don't know. Nor do I think European membership numbers came close to the U.S. membership. Nevertheless, even if we stick with less than half the income being 1st tithes from the U.S., 100 million dollars is a far cry from the 8 million spent on the poor.
The figures published were the worldwide audit. European membership would have been between 10 to 15 percent of total. Dont know about the 1st tithe impact of this. Offerings in Europe were about 70% higher per household. Tithes maybe lower in the eighties.
The calculation of 3rd tithe is not simple one third of 1st.
Many of the 160.000 attendants in 1989 had not entered "3rd year of calculation.
Probably thr number you saw was "3rd tithe spent", not "cash reserves" for that purpose.
But hey I am not debating you just filling adding some data.
HWA interpreted 3rd tithe as being able to be used for the "Levite" as well. As I understand it, 3rd tithe funds were used to fund the jet purchases, and was a main reason Al Portune resigned from his financial administration job in the church back in the early 1970s.
Probably thr number you saw was "3rd tithe spent", not "cash reserves" for that purpose.
But hey I am not debating you just filling adding some data. """
=====================
Probably, and yes I know it's not just 1/3 as I stated in an earlier post that hasn't shown up.
If everyone who paid 1st actually paid third the amount theoretically received each year would be roughly 2/7ths of 1st. I understand that every year would be a little different because those in third tithes year would vary each year, but 8 million is pathetic, especially knowing how many poor in our Clarksburg, WV congregation who received third tithe, got very little.
As Connie said, since the bible says "and the levite within your gate" that allowed an out for the majority to be spent how herbie and those in charge wanted.
Sad, especially since tithing under the New Covenant not being biblical can be easily proven.
Hi Connie. No. It is rumored that some of it was spent on jet fuel. By taking huge mental leaps one could extend the use of the GII in service of the AICF causes that sponsored many benificial organizatuons like UNICEF. But hey, I m stretching that interpretation to its limits.
Nck Based on probability, third tithe should yearly be about 3%. Many not entering the third tithe calculation does not make sense. I believe it's called the law of large numbers. That is, the more often a coin is tossed, the greater the probability that the average will approximate 50% heads or tales. As I understand it, third tithe today is used to pay for ministers retirement.
Nck Yes, there was a temporary surge, but whether these were real tithe payers or legit converts is questionable. At any rate, this still can't explain a puny 8 million out of 200 million dollars. Herbs churches should pay you for being their defence attorney.
Thats my point. The 1st tithes would be in the numbers but the 3rd not. As I said alteady the 8 million was probably the amount granted not the amount 'in reserves." Its like bookkeeping on a house. You dont paint it every year but you save for it. 1985-1990 general economic situation?
Look, I don't want to get into an argument but, 3%? Someone needs to learn math. Sure 3% is about one third of 10%, but that's not how it works.
The WCG received 100% of the first tithe of those who sent it in. Let's assume for a moment that all members paid and were loyal to all three tithes.
That would mean that 2 out of every 7 years a member would pay third tithes. Statistically each year two members out of seven would be in their third tithe year.
So, when all seven members pay first tithe in one year, the total is 7/7ths or 100% of first tithe. That means 2/7ths would be 3rd tithe.
So every year third tithe should be roughly 2/7ths, some years more some less. That would be 28.5%. So 100 million in first tithes would be 28.5 million in third.
Math is fun because if you don't do the correct reasoning you can make a big mistake.
Take flat earthers for instance.
If anyone has ever wasted their time reading Eric Dubey's 200 proofs the earth is flat they will know that flat earthers believe that an airplane has to drop almost 2800ft per minute.
Their math is correct but their reasoning is laughable. Here is Dubeys site, #15 is his idea about airplanes.
I think most know that the earth's drop is about 8 inches each mile. Many assume that you just multiply the miles by 8 inches. Such as 24 inches in three miles. Nope, you must use Pythagorean theorem. For the first mile it's 1 mile squared times 1 mile squared times 8". Giving you 8 inches.
For three miles it would be 3x3x8/12, divide by 12 to get feet, so 9x8=72 72/12=6 feet. Six feet drop in three miles.
So Eric takes 500 miles per hour, 500x500=250,000x8=2,000,000 inches, divide by 12 equals, 166,667 ft drop in 500 miles. Divided by 60 minutes equals 2,777ft drop every minute. About half a mile. Do you think you'd notice that in a plane? ☺
Now, to make it easier let's use 600mph, divided by 60 means the plane goes 10 miles in a minute, but even 10x10x8/12 wouldn't get us the correct answer. That would still be almost 67ft drop per minute. But a lot less than Eric's 2777ft.
10 miles per minute would be 1 mile every six seconds, so that would be 8 inches every six seconds right? Well that's closer to the real number but it's not even that much.
If you take the length of an airplane, a 747 is about 250ft. So divide 250 by 5280, thats .0473 of a mile.
.0473x.0473x8= .017 of an inch. That's a little more than 1/64th of an inch in the length of the plane.
That means theoretically an airplane can circumnavigate the earth if it maintained 1/64th of an inch out of level.
A lot less that 2777ft a minute.
Aint math fun? It's also fun when someone is doing everything right, like Eric's math, but is still wrong because the thinking, the reasoning isn't correct.
That's why everyone in this world insists that they know what they're talking about. In their mind it makes sense, just like Eric's math makes sense to him and other flat earthers, but their insisting that they are right doesn't make it so.
Those 3rd tithe calculations sound like Obamacare after the Republicans ammended the foundations.
Nck
October 18, 2018 at 1:54 PM"""
********************************************
LOL Maybe so but that's how statistics work. Every member (now we're assuming that all are faithful blind sheep) in the WCG would have to be in one of the seven years. Since two of the seven are third tithe years, that means that every year 2/7ths of the membership are in their third tithe year.
Now mind you, we're not even considering the 50th Jubilee year.
24 comments:
Some of man's greatest achievements have been motivated by a driving need for love & acceptance. What happens when that need for recognition, becomes a desire to be revered, and then worshipped...like a god?
I've never seen an organizational structure so ripe for turnover, argumentation, rebellious behavior, mutiny, scheming and intrigue! In fact, I can't even imagine such a structure (if it was actually possible it was reality) would hold up in a breeze. It's like a Jenga Tower with every brick ready to collapse.
And let's just pretend for one minute that this was the way it was.
How fast do you think Herbert Armstrong, being at the "top" of this organizational structure, would fire and disfellowship and throw out everybody under him? How fast do you think Herbert Armstrong would topple out Malm? I can guarantee you he wouldn't put up with a second of their shenanigans. The only reason why they can do anything today is because the Armstrong Churches of God have no backbone, no power, no nothing. They're as weak as weak could possibly be. Armstrongism is the namby-pamby sissy religion they always dreaded to be.
It's just like you took the two old guys in the back of the auditorium at church who thought they knew it all (every congregation had a couple of these) and suddenly nobody cared, and those two geezers took over. No training, no experience, no nothing - but big heads and egos trying to make something of themselves.
It is absolutely ridiculous and laughable.
And I have to ask...
How the heck did Weinland get on this list?
That chart missed out on the details within the broad "Regular Member" category, the only category most ACOG members will ever inhabit. Within that category are:
Unpaid Elders
AC Graduates
Deacons
Audiovisual Crew
First Aid Crew
Parking Crew
Security Crew
Greeters
Deaconesses
Cooks
Food Service
Depending on the local pastor, ministers' kids rank either just below Unpaid Elders, or just above Christ.
This is a riot! James Malm over HWA and Bob Thiel over Rod Meredith. So true, at least in their own eyes.
The "bottom" of the hierarchy is a divorced woman, with kids, on third tithe assistance. That is the pits of the food chain in the COG.
Ushers.
But I'm assuming Ushers are not needed in splinters? No one to usher anymore.
Welcome to Armstrongism, where it's so important to rule that everyone must aspire to be at least an assistant-assistant something. You just had to be on the ladder and vigorously attempting to climb! Otherwise? You got labeled NMH (no male hormones).
~ Z-28
There's a lot of truth in the chart. On many occasions, (different) ministers said to me something like "according to HWA.." or "since you don't agree with HWA.."
What happened to God? Where's mention of Christ? Isn't He rather than Herb the head of the church?
It seems these ministers want the British system of God being the figurehead like the queen, with real power residing with Herb, his minions and bootlickers. A repeat of ancient Israel asking for a king.
Oh how you jest! What a supersonic imagination you have putting them so far up there.
We all know this is ridiculous....ludicrous....because the regular church members are never to be on the structure lists.
Their lowlife, trailer trash and plebs.
We the elite are Gods Government, we rule they listen.
Love
Ambassador College elite
"""he "bottom" of the hierarchy is a divorced woman, with kids, on third tithe assistance. That is the pits of the food chain in the COG.
October 16, 2018 at 6:07 PM" ""
************************************************
Third tithe assistance, what a joke.
When I quit the WCG in early Feb. 1992 the 1991 audit had been printed in the WWN. Total income that year was about 220 million dollars.
The amount for third tithe assistance was eight million. When I pointed that out to the corporate representative aka the minister, he said there were a lot of widows in the church.
I told him that he didn't get it, that WCG made 220 million, if just 100 million was from 1st tithe then they should be getting about 33 million a year in third tithe. What happened to the rest?
We now know what happened to the rest, and I'm sure it was more than 33 million because 1st tithe had to have been more than 100 million.
I was a young 27 year old at that time.
Kevin
5:34
Hi Kevin. That is not at all how 3rd tithe was calculated. Most comments regarding tithing on this blog have been gross misrepresentations. (no pun intended)
By 1985 at least the European churches were excluded from mandatory 3rd tithe because of up to 60 percent government taxation to fund a better system than 3rd tithe for curing the sick and assisting the disabled.
That makes up at least part of your "gap theory."
nck
Good day NCK, would European funds be calculated in a U.S. audit? I don't know. Nor do I think European membership numbers came close to the U.S. membership. Nevertheless, even if we stick with less than half the income being 1st tithes from the U.S., 100 million dollars is a far cry from the 8 million spent on the poor.
Kevin
The figures published were the worldwide audit. European membership would have been between 10 to 15 percent of total. Dont know about the 1st tithe impact of this. Offerings in Europe were about 70% higher per household. Tithes maybe lower in the eighties.
The calculation of 3rd tithe is not simple one third of 1st.
Many of the 160.000 attendants in 1989 had not entered "3rd year of calculation.
Probably thr number you saw was "3rd tithe spent", not "cash reserves" for that purpose.
But hey I am not debating you just filling adding some data.
HWA interpreted 3rd tithe as being able to be used for the "Levite" as well. As I understand it, 3rd tithe funds were used to fund the jet purchases, and was a main reason Al Portune resigned from his financial administration job in the church back in the early 1970s.
"""Blogger nck said...
Probably thr number you saw was "3rd tithe spent", not "cash reserves" for that purpose.
But hey I am not debating you just filling adding some data. """
=====================
Probably, and yes I know it's not just 1/3 as I stated in an earlier post that hasn't shown up.
If everyone who paid 1st actually paid third the amount theoretically received each year would be roughly 2/7ths of 1st. I understand that every year would be a little different because those in third tithes year would vary each year, but 8 million is pathetic, especially knowing how many poor in our Clarksburg, WV congregation who received third tithe, got very little.
As Connie said, since the bible says "and the levite within your gate" that allowed an out for the majority to be spent how herbie and those in charge wanted.
Sad, especially since tithing under the New Covenant not being biblical can be easily proven.
Kevin
Hi Connie. No. It is rumored that some of it was spent on jet fuel. By taking huge mental leaps one could extend the use of the GII in service of the AICF causes that sponsored many benificial organizatuons like UNICEF. But hey, I m stretching that interpretation to its limits.
Nck
Nck
Based on probability, third tithe should yearly be about 3%. Many not entering the third tithe calculation does not make sense. I believe it's called the law of large numbers. That is, the more often a coin is tossed, the greater the probability that the average will approximate 50% heads or tales.
As I understand it, third tithe today is used to pay for ministers retirement.
10;40
The sense is that after 1985 the number of new attendees surged rapidly.
Nck
Nck
Yes, there was a temporary surge, but whether these were real tithe payers or legit converts is questionable. At any rate, this still can't explain a puny 8 million out of 200 million dollars. Herbs churches should pay you for being their defence attorney.
11:10
Thats my point.
The 1st tithes would be in the numbers but the 3rd not. As I said alteady the 8 million was probably the amount granted not the amount 'in reserves." Its like bookkeeping on a house. You dont paint it every year but you save for it. 1985-1990 general economic situation?
Nck
Look, I don't want to get into an argument but, 3%? Someone needs to learn math. Sure 3% is about one third of 10%, but that's not how it works.
The WCG received 100% of the first tithe of those who sent it in. Let's assume for a moment that all members paid and were loyal to all three tithes.
That would mean that 2 out of every 7 years a member would pay third tithes. Statistically each year two members out of seven would be in their third tithe year.
So, when all seven members pay first tithe in one year, the total is 7/7ths or 100% of first tithe. That means 2/7ths would be 3rd tithe.
So every year third tithe should be roughly 2/7ths, some years more some less. That would be 28.5%. So 100 million in first tithes would be 28.5 million in third.
Math is fun because if you don't do the correct reasoning you can make a big mistake.
Take flat earthers for instance.
If anyone has ever wasted their time reading Eric Dubey's 200 proofs the earth is flat they will know that flat earthers believe that an airplane has to drop almost 2800ft per minute.
Their math is correct but their reasoning is laughable. Here is Dubeys site, #15 is his idea about airplanes.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vcx5itve8ymviu1/200%20Proofs%20Earth%20is%20Not%20a%20Spinning%20Ball%21.pdf?dl=0
I think most know that the earth's drop is about 8 inches each mile. Many assume that you just multiply the miles by 8 inches. Such as 24 inches in three miles. Nope, you must use Pythagorean theorem. For the first mile it's 1 mile squared times 1 mile squared times 8". Giving you 8 inches.
For three miles it would be 3x3x8/12, divide by 12 to get feet, so 9x8=72 72/12=6 feet. Six feet drop in three miles.
So Eric takes 500 miles per hour, 500x500=250,000x8=2,000,000 inches, divide by 12 equals, 166,667 ft drop in 500 miles. Divided by 60 minutes equals 2,777ft drop every minute. About half a mile. Do you think you'd notice that in a plane? ☺
Now, to make it easier let's use 600mph, divided by 60 means the plane goes 10 miles in a minute, but even 10x10x8/12 wouldn't get us the correct answer. That would still be almost 67ft drop per minute. But a lot less than Eric's 2777ft.
10 miles per minute would be 1 mile every six seconds, so that would be 8 inches every six seconds right? Well that's closer to the real number but it's not even that much.
If you take the length of an airplane, a 747 is about 250ft. So divide 250 by 5280, thats .0473 of a mile.
.0473x.0473x8= .017 of an inch. That's a little more than 1/64th of an inch in the length of the plane.
That means theoretically an airplane can circumnavigate the earth if it maintained 1/64th of an inch out of level.
A lot less that 2777ft a minute.
Aint math fun? It's also fun when someone is doing everything right, like Eric's math, but is still wrong because the thinking, the reasoning isn't correct.
That's why everyone in this world insists that they know what they're talking about. In their mind it makes sense, just like Eric's math makes sense to him and other flat earthers, but their insisting that they are right doesn't make it so.
Kevin
Kevin
Those 3rd tithe calculations sound like Obamacare after the Republicans ammended the foundations.
Nck
"""nck said...
Kevin
Those 3rd tithe calculations sound like Obamacare after the Republicans ammended the foundations.
Nck
October 18, 2018 at 1:54 PM"""
********************************************
LOL Maybe so but that's how statistics work. Every member (now we're assuming that all are faithful blind sheep) in the WCG would have to be in one of the seven years. Since two of the seven are third tithe years, that means that every year 2/7ths of the membership are in their third tithe year.
Now mind you, we're not even considering the 50th Jubilee year.
Kevin
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