The Dr. watching Fatima with some Mayan fairies
fly around him during his sermon
fly around him during his sermon
Anyone who has ever attended a large Feast of Tabernacles site will have to acknowledge that at times there were "some" interesting sermons. But since the mother church imploded and hundreds of harlots daughter churches hit the scene, the large Feast sites have ALL disappeared and are nothing more than memories.
That brings us to 2018 and to the saddest Church of God to ever exist, the improperly named "continuing" Church of God. The prophet Bob Thiel has released two of his sermons on youtube. Instead of being on one single topic, guru Bob jumps around to scores of different topics in his 1:30 long butt-numbers.
Here are the topic of two of his "sermons:
October 9, 2018
- When Lucifer and the angels were on the Earth, before their fall, did they have any hand in creating the dinosaurs and the prehistorical world?
- What are your thoughts on aliens (from outer space)? Are they demons?
- Might Adam and Eve’s skin tone, etc. have been a mix of races?
- Since we know that the Kingdom of God will continue to expand, will procreation continue somewhere?
- What is Exodus 20:5 teaching?
- What is the ‘general assembly’ in Hebrews 12:23?
- When are people made perfect?
- When will Elijah come?
- How will we know the final Elijah?
- How about swearing by God’s name and Deuteronomy 6:13?
- Can you explain 1 John 3:9?
- Can you explain 1 John 5:7?
- Will the bottomless pit of Revelation 20:3 be in the location of Rome during the millennium?
- What do you think about curse words?
- How does entropy prove God’s existence?
- How many archangels are there?
- Does asking for a 2nd or 3rd anointing show a lack of faith?
- Is Satan destroyed after the millennium?
- God a severe God in the Old Testament, but a merciful God in the New Testament?
October 11, 2018
In this sermon, Dr. Thiel answers questions that have been submitted to the Church of God on many topics, such as: Is cremation acceptable for Christians? Can you wear garments of mixed fabrics? Does Romans 14:5-6 eliminate Holy Days? How should Christians dress? Is it right to have pictures of Jesus? Does Matthew 27:5 contradict Acts 1:18-19? What happened to Garner Ted Armstrong? Can you use a heart symbol? Should you trust ‘The Urantia Book’? What about dinosaurs and the age of the world? What are the origins of Native Americans, often called Indians? Can you use Proctor and Gamble products? Does 1 Kings 8:9 contradict Hebrews 9:4? Who is the ‘elect lady’ of 2 John 1? Was Abraham a Jew? What is a Hebrew? What was Ambassador Foundation for? Is ‘Amen’ pagan? Dr. Thiel goes through scriptures, facts, COG documents, and historical information to provide answers.
Just like every other splinter group leader out there, Thiel does not have an original thought in his head. He has to rely upon old Worldwide Church of God Reprint Articles and booklets to fill his mind with. Can you imagine Herbert Armstrong walking boldly on stage and speaking about hundreds of different topics during one of his sermons? It never happened! Instead, we had one topic that was preached incessantly, The Two Trees, week after week, month after month, year after year. With Thiel, he kind of slithers behind the podium and then starts wildly gesturing as he covers hundreds of topics in his hour and a half sermons.
For someone who claims to be the modst important end time prophet the church has ever seen; it needs to be asked, "Did Bob Thiel flunk Spokesman Club?" Has the church ever had such a poor speaker?
50 comments:
In GTA's sermons, he could cover a lot of diverse points, but they always tied back to his Specific Purpose Statement in a structured manner. When Bob drifts off his topic, it's like a food fight.
I posted this on a much older thread in response to someone who incorrectly wrote to me about a belief that an anonymous poster had stated much earlier in the thread.
I thought it worth posting right here. To people who come here to argue but post anonymously.
×××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××
One more example of how people afraid to give their names can come on here, make stupid comments, then pretend they didn't make them.
Everyone who posts on here anonymously, arguing with those of us not afraid of standing by what we write by giving our name, are bearing false witness. You all are a bunch of lying cowards!
Kevin McMillen
The feast days were always boring & pointless. They don't point to anything futuristic and for a Christian to celebrate them. Means they reject the saving grace of The Messiah.
Oh oh...(raised hand) I have some questions for Bob...
Only one mention of the Lord Jesus in those two days, and that isn't even about Jesus himself, just the traditional response toward pictures of Jesus.
He needs to talk to Aikaine Kramarik. If you don't know who I am talking about, google "Prince of Peace Aikaine" and read her story.
Dennis,
When you said that, you remind me of "Young Sheldon", where the preacher is at the pulpit talking about religious things, and there's 9-year old Sheldon who raises his hand right in the middle of church posing hard questions at the young pastor - who, interestingly enough, had to go to denominational superiors to answer a simple question about octopus redemption, and if Jesus would become an octopus to save octopus if octopus were sinners in need of salvation.
What's it like to be a Prophet? It must be amazing. He would know, for instance, if Apple stock [AAPL Nasdaq] is in a major sell-off or just a correction?
But there is an unwritten law: prophets must not profit from Equities/Futures, and we appreciate that, because it's God's will that there be order in the world, and that means those whom he allows to see the future not to play Futures, or frequent Brokerage houses or, God forbid, off-Wall-Street 'Bucketshops'!
""" DennisCDiehl said...
Oh oh...(raised hand) I have some questions for Bob... """
=================================
Ok Horshack, put your hand down and wait your turn. Now what were you saying Vinnie?
Kotter
I watched a few minutes. What’s with the groaning, rapid breathing?
I refuse go there. I will NOT touch that play button. You've told me enough. Does he actually have an audience there in the room or did he set that up in his basement with someone running the camera? Just curious.
Hi. I just come here to argue, so will post as"Anonymous"
People, it's all a nostalgia act at this point. Like some of the '60s rock bands, the name of the group might be the same or similar, but the only original member a this point is the bass player or maybe a backup singer.
Nobody really knows beyond the shadow of doubt when these days are supposed to fall, and they never were held where God placed His name (Jerusalem) even in the HWA era (Deut 16:16, Zech.14:16-18). Knowing that, how could keeping these days in this fashion provide the keys to understanding anything, let alone the true meanings to nebulous prophecies which are highly subject to interpretation.
The only way that Bob Thiel will ever become effective will be if he diligently pursues some sort of drama classes or obtains coaching. Someone must teach him the things he so severely lacks, and how to correct them. Had he done this in the beginning, we would not see him still flailing his hands, having distracting props in the background, or audibly passing flatus during meandering presentations. And, he wonders why nobody respects him as a prophet???
I have never heard Thiel speak before but I was interested in what he had to say about Native Americans. At the outset, the set of questions is really a sad indication of what occupies the minds of his audience. Conspiracy theories, pseudo-science, pseudo-history and gossip about GTA. It is like this was a convention of "Ancient Aliens" fans instead of a church. Most of the questions have long established answers in the WCG and these odd traditions are what Thiel presented.
Thiel refers the listeners to an article that contains a tiny snippet of recent scientific news and a long quotation from Hoeh's Compendium of World History on the origin of the Native American. The assertion is that the recent scientific finding supports Hoeh. It does not. If one researches the snippet further, the finding was that a teenaged boy from the Pleistocene found around lake Baikal contained a genetic configuration found among all Native Americans. And the genetics indicated that the boy was derived from East Asian and European roots. It is now postulated based on this finding that Native Americans are about 30% European and 70% East Asian. This is a simplification but I don't have time for the full story. You can find it on the web, if you are interested.
Hoeh's theory of Native American origins is that Tiras (a descendant of Japheth) married a woman who was a descendant of Canaan giving rise to Native Americans. (Hoeh sent me this in a letter back in the Seventies.) It is a much cherished idea among Armstrongites that Native Americans are Canaanites and should have been exterminated by the "Israelitish" colonists. And having the Native Americans be Canaanites supports BI. And Hoeh accommodates that nicely. This also means that autosomal studies, like the studies on the Boy from Baikal, should indicate that Native Americans are a mix of Asian and Negroid ancestry. Such studies have never indicated this. It indicates that they are a mix of Asian and European ancestry (this makes geographic sense) - in absolute contravention to Herman Hoeh. Further, it kills Hoeh's Atlantic crossing theory that Thiel mentions and advocates. The Baikal finding places their origin squarely in the Siberia-Beringia area.
So CogWriter took something that abrogates Hoeh's pseudo-science and, due to misunderstanding, uses it, in a droll twist, to support Hoeh.
I am saddened that there are people who greet this kind of pseudo-history and pseudo-science with great excitement and a feeling that they know more than "the experts" due to their association with the putative "true church."
An Addendum:
I backed Hoeh into a corner on his statement that Native Americans were a mix of Asian (Japheth) and Negroid (Canaan) ancestry. I asked him if it was permissible within the WCG for Native Americans to intermarry with Afro-Americans. He said that this was "not to be recommended." Based on his pseudo-history, I thought he would answer would be an emphatic "yes." Instead, his answer indicated that he did not have a consistent viewpoint on this topic.
Later, Hoeh renounced the Compendium of World History. In addition to whatever public statements have been made, Ray Kurr (of Tulsa, now deceased) whose family knew Hoeh well, told me that Hoeh had told him of this renunciation personally. Under these long established circumstances, I am surprised that Theil would extensively quote from the Compendium in the article about Native Americans and that his congregants would receive such material.
I too have questions for the "almost arrested doubly blessed Elijah prophet Dr. from mail order diploma mill" Bitter Bob Thiel:
QUESTIONS: Jesus Christ warns us in Matt 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Later, in the same chapter and context regarding identifying false prophets, Matt 7:20 reads, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them". Other than your hit animated cartoons, what are YOUR fruits? Are YOU shaking the nations with God's prophetic message warning with power and authority - with the reach so that ALL the world will hear and see it? OR....OR are you just playing Pastor General of your own Armstrong Church business franchise?
Herbert Armstrong said there are no Prophets in the modern Church age. Are you saying God's End Time Apostle Herbert Armstrong was wrong?
Why didn't Gaylyn Bonjour join your grossly misnamed Church if he knew beforehand that he was "double blessing" you to be raised to the biblical office of Prophet?
There are many questions, few (if any) answers from the animated cartoon Prophet.
Richard
Why is Thiel so obsessed with "Fat Ima". Maybe she has an eating disorder or a slow metabolism, but she should not be body shamed by Thiel all the time!
Also, is there a "Topless Pit" that goes along with the "Bottomless Pit"?? Dr. Thiel, please respond, these are questions that demand answers, and require 1.5 hour videos!
Worst. Feast. Ever!
"""Anonymous said...
The feast days were always boring & pointless. They don't point to anything futuristic and for a Christian to celebrate them. Means they reject the saving grace of The Messiah.
October 16, 2018 at 5:11 AM"""
===============================================
So, Passover is pointless because it doesn't point to anything futuristic? Hmmmm, let's see what Jesus himself said:
Luk 22:15 - And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
22:16 - For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
Jesus says there will be a future fulfillment of Passover in the Kingdom of God.
How about the days of unleavened bread?
Even if 7,000 years isn't correct for God's plan it is symbolic at least. So seven days or seven thousand years of Jesus bringing sinning mortals out of sin by being the bread of life that we imbibe in daily isn't futuristic?
Seven weeks of harvest isn't futuristic? With Jesus being the first of the firstfruits?
Pentecost picturing the end of the physical to spiritual harvest when all will finally be in God's Kingdom and spirit.
Trumpets at the seventh month, Christ's return and establishing his kingdom.
Atonement, Jesus taking all mankinds sins upon himself by dying and Jesus also removing (azazul goat) our sins as far as east is from west?
Tabernacles, picturing mankind in the flesh for 7,000 symbolic years while Jesus came in the flesh to save us? I think Jesus was born on the fourth day of tabernacles since he came to earth in the fourth millennia and he began his ministry in the midst of the feast.
The seventh day of tabernacles picturing the millennium and GWTJ Jesus as living water is poured out for all mankind.
The Eighth day, when there are no more tabernacles, no more flesh. Jesus has finished his work of saving mankind. We now go out into eternity.
Nope, nothing futuristic about any of that!
Kevin
"""Anonymous said...
Hi. I just come here to argue, so will post as"Anonymous""""
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We'll just call you no balls anony, there you aren't anonymous anymore.
Kevin
Gary, I don't mind your not posting some of my comments, it's your forum. But I'm pretty sure that anonymous post was from Bob, if you know who it was and if it was Bob I'd appreciate it if you'd forward my comment.
Thanks,
Kevin
"The feast days were always boring & pointless. They don't point to anything futuristic..."
That much is true.
While we do have corroboration for an ancient "Israel" as early as the late 13th century BC in the Merneptah Stele, and for a Judah at the turn of the 7th century in Sennacherib's Prism, since archaeology shows there was no large-scale Egyptian enslavement, wandering, or conquest of Canaan, we're not left with a lot of alternatives other than to conclude that these Israelites and Judahites were probably just more Canaanite tribes of the Levant, not discernably different from the Jebusites, Hivites, Perizzites, Hittites, Amorites, or Girgashites, and we only have an disproportionately outsized memory of them because they're the only Canaanites from whom we have some literature.
So what use is there for modern people in observing the harvest rituals of the Mesopotamian religion of ancient Canaanites? Or for a Hellenized repackaging of that, which is what the Cult of Jesus is?
NEO: I believe that the linking of African Americans and Native Americans, although a false history, has some credence outside of the ACOG-Hoeh sphere of influence. There are famous African Americans who, in the past have expressed pride in having Native American dna, Tina Turner and Jimi Hendrix amongst them. And, then there is the rich tradition of the Mardi Gras Indians of New Orleans, who are of course African American. The ways in which this was treated in the culturally reverent TV series "Treme" demonstrates a commonality in crafts, dancing, and tribal rhythms. I had no idea that there was such a thing as Mardi Gras Indians prior to watching Treme, let alone that they would be black.
Q...could it be that all of Thiel's hand waving is more to wave off all the "gas" he's emitting? Reminds me of that old saying about the skunk.....O! O! getting "naughty" here.
Me thinks all the exposure to so much BS over the years (WWCG) etc has an accumulative effect.Developing an allergy to BS???
Oh, and one other question for "almost arrested doubly blessed Elijah prophet Dr. from mail order diploma mill" Bitter Bob Thiel":
The seal on your podium picturing the dumb tithe slave sheep says, "Fulfilling Matt. 24:14...". Herbert Armstrong near the end of his life stated HE fulfilled Matt. 24:14 preaching the true gospel into all the world. So how can your grossly misnamed Continuing Church of God with a reach of a few hundred views be fulfilling Matt. 24:14 when Mr. Armstrong said he already fulfilled it?
Is it the biblical role of a Prophet to fulfill Matt. 24:14 and Matt 28? Is that really a Prophet is supposed to do. Again, the age-old question: Are you a Prophet OR..OR are you a Pastor General? Or, are you a double-minded man who is unstable in all his ways? (James 1:8)
There are many questions, few (if any) answers from the animated cartoon Prophet.
Richard
Kevin, As far back as men have recorded their history, veils have been lowered to disclose a vast new reality - rents in the fabric of man's awareness. And somewhere, in the endless search of the curious mind, lies the next vision, the next key to his infinite capacity...some success, some failure, but either way the gnawing hunger to know is sated, and the road to the unknown continues to be dark & strange.
Topless Pitt?
That's the Pitt sisters before the Mayflower. Beastpower!
Nck
Kevin, the reason some of us post anonymously, is we are not ready to be thrown out of a ACOG. There is a faint hope of willingness to change the further we get away timewise from WCG.
Ultimately, more of us will walk away if no positive changes happen.
What I don't get is that Bob Thiel refuses to change his staging, his presenting format or anything else he has been criticised for. We all know he is an avid reader here. He knows the criticism, and yet he continues to bumble on like a complete fool refusing to correct issues. He exhibits every sign of a true narcissist.
Kevin McMillen, I am not sure what some people who post "Anonymous" reasons are, but I post as "Anonymous" because my wife is still in one of the Armstrong break-away groups and if I post in my name I don't want my wife getting the fall-out. Her minister can be a complete asshole.
Kevin, stop being such a jerk about anonymous postings here. Some of us are still in various COG's and others have family members in the groups. It could cause serious harm of our words made it up to the idiots and abusers in charge. We are thankful to have a space to share our stories without worrying about repercussions. Just because you post your name has not made you a nice person here.
"""Anonymous TLA said...
Kevin, the reason some of us post anonymously, is we are not ready to be thrown out of a ACOG. There is a faint hope of willingness to change the further we get away timewise from WCG.
Ultimately, more of us will walk away if no positive changes happen.
October 16, 2018 at 1:25 PM"""
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TLA, you're not posting anonymously, you place initials, TLA, on your post. I don't care if they're your real initials or not.
The point being if we're in a conversation here, I can see which posts are yours, even if you post anonymously.
I didn't say what I said to get your name, I just want to be able to identify who's saying what.
I've said it before, if you don't want to post your name at least pick a couple initials to identify your posts. I don't care if they're your real initials or not.
Kevin
Anonymity is a right and should be respected. It's a waste of time trying to explain this to Kevin. He's deeply in love with, and addicted to being a social barbarian.
"""Anonymous Anonymous Beth said...
Kevin, stop being such a jerk about anonymous postings here. Some of us are still in various COG's and others have family members in the groups. It could cause serious harm of our words made it up to the idiots and abusers in charge. We are thankful to have a space to share our stories without worrying about repercussions. Just because you post your name has not made you a nice person here.
October 16, 2018 at 2:15 PM"""
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I'm not here to make friends Beth. If you can't handle my straightforward honesty then tough, ignore me. I quit playing church long ago, if my Savior can call out hypocritical, self righteous religious assholes, so can I.
Kevin
I pointed out to Kevin in a previous post that the purpose of a moral code is the preservation of life and achievement of success. It's the reason Christ gave for healing on the Sabbath. Kevin mocked me in response. In other words, he doesn't care if following his advice will result in serious harm to others. Morality to him is divorced from reality and is only a game.
Kevin is a fool. It's best to ignore him.
I could care less if you are here not here to make friends. You still don't need to be a jerk. Straightforwardness has nothing to do with it. You have a chip on your shoulder that none of us here are responsible for.
Check out what I said to TLA at 2:35pm.
What has been going on in this thread is exactly why I called out people to identify themselves.
By the posts it looks like several people are upset with me. But honestly, this could just be one or two people.
Who would know since you all post anonymously without any kind of identifier? Who cares whether that identifier is a couple numbers, a couple letters, whatever. Use Kevin is an asshole for all I care, but stay consistent so we can follow your posts!
Kevin
Kevin is just like Bob Thiel, he just doesn't get it. All he has to do is use the time numbers and reply that way. It's not rocket science. No initials needed, use the time.
Anon 11:25:
Within the New World context there is interaction between Native Americans and Afro-Americans. This is not really relevant to the question of origins. Native Americans are haplogroup Q and Afro-Americans are haplogroup E. They are genetically disjoint.
Many Afro-Americans claim Native American ancestry. Henry Louis Gates, Jr. has determined that though this belief is popular in the Afro-American community, very few Afro-Americans have Native American ancestry. He has determined that the non-Black physical features that Afro-Americans have are not derived from Native American ancestry but from Caucasian ancestry. Almost all Afro-Americans are part Caucasian. You can find a lecture on YouTube by Gates on this topic.
Only a half-Witt would come to this site and deliberately try to piss people off. Some people here need a filter for their mouth.
He knows the criticism
Bob and others need to understand that we're providing feedback. Sure, a lot of heckling, but there's a lot of honest observation. People pay research companies for analyses that we provide for free!
Didn't Bob ever read the evaluation slips at Spokesman's Club? A lot of feedback, but some of the remarks made by fellow members were brutal!
Yes, some of the criticism can be brutal, but it is honest and direct to the issues everyone has with him.
I went with a relative to one of his "feast sites". It was depressing with just a few people in attendance. We had to watch one of his ridiculous videos as the sermon for the day. I cannot understand what my relative sees in the guy. There was nothing biblically relevant discussed and certainly not a thing pointing towards Jesus. It was like he just copied and pasted a bunch of WCG literature and HWA writings.
Criticisms need not be brutal. It's possible to be objective yet kind. To me, the best example of this is the now disgraced TV host Matt Lauer. He would ask all the hard questions. while still being respectful.
A Christian quality is, as much as possible, being kind and diplomatic.
"I went with a relative to one of his "feast sites". It was depressing with just a few people in attendance. We had to watch one of his ridiculous videos as the sermon for the day. I cannot understand what my relative sees in the guy"
How many? 3? 5?
Could you fit them in a living room comfortably?
My guess to what he sees in the guy? Probably opportunity.
It matters not at all whether somebody posts anonymously. I assume they have good reason for doing so. There are no downsides to my using my own name, so I do. I have no reason to hide. That doesn't mean someone else doesn't have a legitimate reason to do so. Would be nice if they could find some anonymous way of identifying themselves as a specific anonymous comenter, however.
I don't care whether people sign their posts or not. The only thing that matters to me is that folks come here to conduct polite and civil discourse, hopefully contributing edifying facts and ideas along the way. Every six months to a year, some arrogant asshole bursts on the scene, insults, argues with and intimidates anyone who holds a different viewpoint, and then abruptly leaves when his or her pearls of wisdom are not received or validated by the existing community. It's kind of funny when you think about it. Why would anyone behave like the people we regularly mock, and then expect us to treat them differently? There are many kinds of intelligence. Some lack the social kind.
~XYZ
I don't like saying it, but Dave Pack, unlike Bob, is a good public speaker. It doesn't surprise me that Dave has enough follower-victims to keep himself financially comfortable.
I comment anonymously because I have a devout (last I knew) HWA worshipper ex-relative and I don't need harrassment (should there be). But if it makes you feel better, I will go by FFS.
-FFS
"""Anonymous said...
I comment anonymously because I have a devout (last I knew) HWA worshipper ex-relative and I don't need harrassment (should there be). But if it makes you feel better, I will go by FFS.
-FFS
October 17, 2018 at 5:38 AM"""
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FFS, Thank you. It has nothing to do with feeling better, now I will know which posts are from you. Which was my whole point which would be clear if several of my posts would show up. I'm not sure if there is a glitch somewhere or if Gary just isn't posting them. It's his web site so that's his prerogative.
I was going to just let this thread drop and if my posts would show up I will. Oh well.
Kevin
"""Anonymous said...
I comment anonymously because I have a devout (last I knew) HWA worshipper ex-relative and I don't need harrassment (should there be). But if it makes you feel better, I will go by FFS.
-FFS"""
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
FFS, no there shouldn't be, but alas that's not the world we're living in.
Have a good day.
Kevin
Bonding? Nice.
~STP
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