How You Could Commit the Unpardonable Sin!by Herbert W. Armstrong March 1960 Good News Article
"But -- and here's where you need to TREMBLE IN FEAR! -- if and when you criticize or accuse or condemn THE WORK, THEN YOU ARE SPEAKING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT -- and if and when you do that, YOU SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN! You shall not be forgiven now, or in the world to come -- the WORLD TOMORROW -- during the millennium or during the Great White Throne JUDGMENT! This sort of thing always starts out with personal criticism and fault-finding against the one God has chosen and is using in the office of apostle in HIS WORK. But oh, brethren, how we have been grieved to see a few here and there along the way, thru the years, start out by finding fault against the human person of God's servant, and then in that disgruntled and embittered spirit proceed progressively into condemning THE WORK OF GOD, and denying that it IS the work of God. This work has grown too great and powerful to be the work of a human man, apart from either God or the devil. If this is not the very WORK OF GOD, then it must be that of SATAN. And to accuse it -- to condemn it -- I ask you, brethren, IS IT NOT MORE THAN POSSIBLE THAT THIS IS SPEAKING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT, and therefore is the UNPARDONABLE SIN?"The "work" has to be doing a godly work before it can even dare to claim to be above reproach. Sadly our track record of the church acting in a godly manner has been horribly damaged by the likes of so many current church leaders. That blame ultimately lies at the feet of Herbert Armstrong for allowing arrogance, narcissism, and visions of grandeur to infect the church. The church that claims to be "true" has let its self be overrun by vile men who have been anything but godly and never more so than in the last 20 years.
Sure there were a lot or legalistic tyrants in the church before the great implosion, but the crop of tyrants currently running COG is appallingly evil.
What right does HWA have above saying that if you criticize the church that YOU SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN! That is a blatant lie! No man on earth has the power to even claim such a thing.
Even more importantly, speaking out against the current batch of lairs and abusers is NOT speaking against the Holy Spirit. Rather, it is the liars and abusers of the brethren currently running splinter groups and "ministries" that are the ones "grieving" the Holy Spirit. That is why I can, with confidence, call out the self-appointed false prophets and liars of the current COG leaders like Malm, Theil, Pack, Weinland, Flurry, Weston and others.
28 comments:
Well, HWA was a liar & his WCG taught lies. I guess according to his warped point of view I just committed the unforgivable sin, NOT!
Actually, according to scripture, yes, it is, if we don’t forgive HWA and ‘the work” for what we suffered at their hands.
Matt 6:14-15 (KJV)
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Scripture also shows that those who sin against us have some responsibility in the process:
Luke 17:3-4 (KJV)
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
Most of us here have certainly realized that carrying hatred around with us poisons our lives. So, in time, we have forgiven the primary people who have brought evil into our lives. We’ve “gotten over it” on a personal level, but seek to warn others. The problem is, many of the purveyors of the Armstrong “gospel” have not repented. People are still dying and becoming impoverished at their hand, while the leaders profiteer and consider themselves above evaluation, and are therefore nonresponsive to valid criticism. They may be prospering personally, at parishioners’ expense, but their “works” are going nowhere.
There are some who still attempt to preach the general package of doctrines known as Armstrongism in an altruistic way. However, I would submit that when you have a package of doctrines that was conceived based on cherry-picking “proof texts” removed from context, your very doctrines will lead you to misunderstanding, and to abusing others. If you also attempt to preach these assigning absolute authority to yourself, you will undoubtedly infuse bad elements of your own imperfect personality into the process, and in the end, corrupt your “work” with evil. This is what we observe actually taking place throughout Armstrongism.
BB
the Power to Forgive comes from the Holy Spirit, hence if one blasphemes the Holy Spirit, bow can they be forgiven since for all intents and purposes they have rejected forgiveness?
c f ben yochanan
Byker wrote:
There are some who still attempt to preach the general package of doctrines known as Armstrongism in an altruistic way. However, I would submit that when you have a package of doctrines that was conceived based on cherry-picking “proof texts” removed from context, your very doctrines will lead you to misunderstanding, and to abusing others
There was an episode of Star Trek about precisely this. A Starfleet historian thought he could help a disunited planet by teaching a sanitized kind of Nazism without the element of racial hatred. Unfortunately, he discovered that Nazism's promotion of unity ultimately required that there be a scapegoat race to persecute.
With Armstrongism, you must make so many decisions about your observance of so many ambiguous or obsoleted laws, a process that ultimately requires you to de-emphasize Jesus' saving grace and instead elevate the human beings who are the arbiters of your law-keeping.
If you actually believe that each Christian receives the Holy Spirit with the laying on of hands, then aren't you blaspheming the Holy Spirit when you deny the inspiration and free agency of another Christian? If you obey a minister who says, "Obey me and ignore what the Holy Spirit is telling you in your conscience," then aren't you a co-conspirator in blaspheming that Spirit?
CFBY. The "power to forgive" doesn't come from any Holy Spirit. It comes from the human heart and personality. If that offends you and the Holy Spirit then you and the H S by the power of itself will just have to forgive me
I thought that the unpardonable sin was knowingly and willfully rejecting the truth that you have been given. Isn't unbelief the unpardonable sin?
so from whence, then, comes greed, envy, murder, and the like? the invisible forces what motivate men do not come from man any more than such sentiments follow them beyond the grave...they existed before man, and if all mankind were exterminated today, those same forces would still exist...
c f ben yochanan
One would think that blaspheming the holy spirit, (if that is the unpardonable sin), is so serious that scripture would give a much clearer definition of exactly what blaspheming the holy spirit is and for that matter a much clearer picture of what the holy spirit is. Excuse me but I need clarity here. This is as clear as mud to me. One would think that a matter as serious as the unpardonable sin would be made as clear as crystal by our instruction book instead of being given a passing mention. That is if the bible is even inspired by a God but merely a book written by men.
It's embarrassing to read such childish lies and manipulation from Herb. Complaints of
'personal criticism and fault finding' is a veiled demand that members suspend moral evaluation of Herb, his Gestapo ministers, and their boot lickers. These same ministers by contrast, have a black belt in fault finding, and illegally/immorally verbally bashing church members.
They gives themselves the right to a monstrous double standard. God condemns false scales, both physical and moral.
Killing animals just for their skin, fleecing brethren just for their money, are the unpardonable sin!
Are you saying that only those who have the holy spirit can forgive? what a strange idea! I even heard psychologist (who are not even Christian) advise their patients to forgive. When I was growing up I used to fight with some of my cousins but we would forgive and forget it ever happened in just a couple hours or less, am I suppose to assume that everyone that forgives has the holy spirit. I always thought forgiveness was a chioce.
read for urself:
"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men" Matthew 12:31
“Is it possible to commit the Unpardonable Sin if you criticize the 'Work'?”
It is possible to commit the Unpardonable Sin if you SUPPORT the wicked works of the False Prophets like Flurry, Pack, Weinland, Thiel, etc. You might never be able to forgive yourself.
what i am saying is that forgiveness is one of the characteristics of the Holy Spirit, just as bigotry is one of the unholy spirit of the devil; if a person has the Power of forgiveness, it comes from God, just as hate or lying comes from satan...
if someone rejects the concept of forgiveness they reject the Power of God: ergo, they reject their own salvation...
and God can give of any of the characteristics of His Spirit to whomever He Wills, and indeed has, which is why the world is in a relative state of stability; but Revelation 6:4 clearly states He will be withdrawing virtually all of His Spirit in the end time, and then the spirit of the devil will be full throttle...
c f ben yochanan
The concept of forgiveness has been twisted by Christendom. It's portrayed as a loophole in reality, a get-out-of-jail-free card. That's not the way the real world works. Esau repented, as did the prodigal son, but there were permanent consequences.
Remember kiddies, if you play, you pay.
CFBY noted:
"and God can give of any of the characteristics of His Spirit to whomever He Wills, and indeed has, which is why the world is in a relative state of stability; but Revelation 6:4 clearly states He will be withdrawing virtually all of His Spirit in the end time, and then the spirit of the devil will be full throttle..."
Then "God" is playing games with everyone and we are all mere pawns in it as His whims rise and fall?
CFBY also notes:
"if someone rejects the concept of forgiveness they reject the Power of God: ergo, they reject their own salvation..."
You don't really know this. You seem to have a tendency to connect dots that don't connect making pictures that are rather distorted and inappropriate. If there is a "Power of God" needed for forgiveness, where is it? Why is so hard to get a lb or a ton of it when needed? And why would any God connect using the power of itself, which is hard to find, come by and acquire or even understand and perceive to salvation, which I have to assume is Eternal Life and all the perks which is something the text says God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to the knowledge of the truth etc?
I know you are sincere, but in trying to figure it all out you, as most do, are rewriting the scriptures and adding to them and for connections and explanations that simply are apologetic in nature and unknowable to begin with. It's what we do seeking answers I suppose.
at 9:45PM, TCBY said:
if a person has the Power of forgiveness, it comes from God, just as hate or lying comes from satan...
So, what you seem to be saying is that where someone in the Bible speaks of hating a person or a thing, that is Satan's influence? Congratulations! You just proved that YHVH is under Satan's influence!
I heard this kind of crap growing up in the Baptist Church, if you don't go along with the preacher you are resisting God....yeah right.
this blog likes to say the cogs should be more Christ centered, and you are right: they should; and the answers to ur questions can be found in the Gospels using Christs example, and in the writings of the Apostle Saul, and in the interactions with God of the righteous of the old testament...
the bible is full of examples of the Power of God in man, and Jesus exemplified this concept, living by example in prayer, fasting, and obedience; He came down among us not just to die for our sins, but also to Demonstrate how we should submit to the Power and Influence of God, and resist our natural tendency to submit to the power of satan...
the apostle Saul said he can do all things through Christ, and even enumerated some examples of the fruits of the Spirit of Christ...
as sinners our default spirit is that of the devils, but each of us has some measure of the fruits of the Holy Spirit: some of us are loving and forgiving; some of us are courageous and stand up to injustice; some are polite and tactful; some are generous; some are patient and longsuffering; some are obedient and faithful, some are celibate, etc., etc...
few of us have all the above at one time, but all the above are facets of the Holy Spirit, and Jesus indeed had them all, and much more: He was wholly God...
the receiving of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands is for the receiving of the Power to be complete, the Power to acquire that which we are lacking, that we might be wholly righteous...
c f ben yochanan
Herbert Armstrong wrote in 1960, "But -- and here's where you need to TREMBLE IN FEAR! -- if and when you criticize or accuse or condemn THE WORK, THEN YOU ARE SPEAKING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT -- and if and when you do that, YOU SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN! You shall not be forgiven now, or in the world to come -- the WORLD TOMORROW -- during the millennium or during the Great White Throne JUDGMENT!"
MY COMMENT - This is why my Church is called "The Lake of Fire Church of God". It ministers to me and I preach to all those whom God's Apostle condemned to the Lake of Fire eternal damnation for for having the audacity to question Herbert W. Armstrong and his Worldwide Church of God.
Richard
The biblical story in simple words.
God created the whole of creation including human life. The first human being were told not to eat of the trees including the tree of life with the exception of the tree of knowledge good and evil.. Their disobedience caused human beings to suffer death which was the termination of life. There was no promise of eternal life. The whole of the Old Testament was stories of God desire to have a people who would share eternity with Him. It was evident that people he chose to be His people were unable to be faithful to his planned purpose. The OT prophets were continually warning his chosen people to be obedient to the instructions they were given. There was always a promise that God would provide a way for His people to share eternal life with Him.
The New Testament is all about the way God had planned to have a people who would share in an eternal kingdom; It is all about the Son of God going through a human existence including a human death. The whole NT is about Jesus the Christ including the human birth, life, death, and resurrected life. The resurrected Jesus offers eternal life to those who will accept Him as Lord and Savior. This means that those who choose to join with Him will need to learn the whole story and give their life to focus on living and growing in a life that reflects the Glory of God and His Son the Lord and Savior rather than the way of a world headed for destruction.
It obviously requires faith in a living God and the living Word that is revealed in the written word that tells the story. ASB
The creation allegory in Genesis provides evidence of the early Judaic understanding of the yin and yang principle. The moment we become aware of a principle or thing, we also become conscious of its absence or opposite. You cannot have good without there also being evil. The very act of creating a special word for love implies that there is also hatred. Polarity is one of the dynamic principles of the universe. You can't have a condition in which there is just one pole, although you can have stasis or balance between two poles.
BB
I know that many today have problems with the differences in those who claim to follow a biblical way of life. There seems to be difficult to recognize that we all have traveled different roads through this earthly journey. My journey through life has gone down many roads from birth to my present status of old age. I have a long marriage with a family that has members clear down to great great grand youngsters. My wife and I started our commitment to follow God and Jesus the Christ with baptism by two young men from Radio Church of God. We were with that church through all the changes down to our withdrawal in the year of 2000 AD. We have maintained our faith in God and His Son and will maintain it until our physical death. We are currently dealing with health problems that comes with old age, but we still have an active life.
With that as an introduction I want to make a few comments regarding what appears to be an ongoing series of efforts to determine the rights and/or wrongs of the church grouping we spent many years with. I will say with all honesty that many if not most of the people we fellowshipped with in those years were sincere dedicated people who had a desire to be considered as fulfilling Gods will in living this human existence. While much of what was being taught may have focus to heavily on legalism a balanced way of following the OT requirements would not have been considered sinful or unacceptable. Some of the postings here have been used by those who were treated wrongly by overbearing ministers give the impression that all fell in that same category. I firmly believe that people who trusted God could or would have been able to experience the feelings of Jesus on the cross if they had looked at things from that perspective. We can not change the past but we can use more wisdom in the future. ASB
It’s OK to rape your daughter but not criticize the work ??
ASB
You're vague about "overbearing ministers" onwards, but the reality was and is that the church culture is toxic. It has effected all members, past and present. With your long attendance, your sense of normalcy must be negatively effected. You appear blind to this.
This thread asked one question: "Is it possible to commit the Unpardonable Sin if you criticize the "Work"?"
My immediate answer would be: "No!"
But to pursue it just a little bit further, where in the Bible does is speak of the phrase "the unpardonable sin?" It is nowhere; the phrase can't be found in the Bible.
There seems to be a lot of ignorance around and about that phrase.
If that weren't enough, it appears that many have made an "idol" out of the phrase referred to as "the Work." What work?
What HWA wrote about the unpardonable sin was written out of ignorance, and so many of us, also ignorant, swallowed a lot of it without realizing it. It was like eating Junk Food, something looks so good, but has little or no nourishment value.
HWA often said: "Don't believe me; believe your bible." Fortunately, or unfortunately, too many of us believed HWA. He did say: "Don't believe me."
And if we are to believe the Bible, then we can't use that phrase "the unpardonable sin," b/c it can't be found there. You can find that phrase in HWA's booklet on "The Unpardonable Sin," but one won't find it in the Bible.
I agree with HWA regarding this phrase: "Don't believe me!"
Believe it or not...time will tell.
John
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