This screenshot is from an article in the PostBulletin, Minnesota.
Photos: Today in History: Jan. 24
I spent a couple of days parked in the Hall of Ad with others as "tools" of the administration as it sought to fight the Receiver from entering the building. Outside where Police and Sheriffs, with even more staged down at the Rose Bowl area in preparation for a massive strike. Many of the Pasadena Police called in sick that day or refused to have anything to do with what was anticipated to happen.
One would have thought the WCG would have learned a lesson during that time, but no. The corruption and massive amounts of money being spent on things that had nothing to to with the gospel continued on unabated. Those same corrupt people ar enow parked in UCG, COGWA, PCG, RCG and elsewhere, still spending money.
37 comments:
We did not expect God's Apostle to lie to us. This is why Joe Sr got away with his lies for so long - even though they seem ridiculous now when I look back.
i was too young to appreciate the gravity of the events surrounding that period, but i seem to remember that the states case ultimately was thwarted on its merits, so not sure what the point is...
c f ben yochanan
What struck me at the time was the double standard. Church members are expected to be passive inside the church, yet assertive if the church is threatened.
Likewise, assertiveness is taboo inside the church, yet its leaders want the US military to be like a roaring lion, protecting their ability to play church.
Double standard? DOUBLE STANDARD? There wasn't any stinkin' double standard!
Mind you, we can't vote or get political because their god places in to office who he chooses.
But Jesus is returning because "Man isn't able to govern himself"!
On that sea of glass or wherever we'll be, all we need to say is, "What do you mean we can't govern ourself? You didn't give us a chance because you chose our leaders!".
Hmmmmm
Kevin
Kevin
I don't follow your 10.23 AM post. Seems garbled.
The investigation of the WCG was valid. Having the State of California do "ex parte" hearings and "taking over the corporation" were faulty legal concepts. It was based on the idea that if you are a 501c3, that makes the church a "ward of the state".
What the State of California should have done was to prosecute HWA , Rader et al, as individuals who violated the corporation in terms of personal inurement. When somebody is stealing or doing wrong in a corporation such as Goldman Sachs, which happened here recently in Malaysia, then the INDIVIDUAL is charged and dealt with. The corporation is not taken over by the State.
Armstrong/Rader et al, had a lot to hide and it is too bad that this was not brought to justice. IF...there had been an accountable , elected board, who were not just "rubber stampers" and who also could be held criminally negligent for not exercising fiduciary responsibility , it could have played out differently.
The State of California got sloppy, and was reacting to the very recent Jonestown tragedy, which happened under their watch with the original San Francisco based Jim Jones. Congressman Leo Ryan was killed at Jonestown as well, and he was a State Representative from California as well.
Amazingly, all of this happened 40 years ago, as long a time period as the Israelites were in the desert. The cry should still ring out for the COG..."LET MY PEOPLE GO!"
When I started attending WCG full-time, the ministers often tied Biblical points back to 1979. That's faded over time - so much that I haven't heard any COG mention this 40th anniversary.
I WAS THERE WHEN THEY KICKED THE RECEIVER OUT
"""Anonymous said...
Kevin
I don't follow your 10.23 AM post. Seems garbled.
January 25, 2019 at 11:46 AM"""
I was joking about the WCG's stance against voting. The first part, "There was no stinkin' double standard" was a play on the old "Badges? Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges" from The Treasure of the Sierra Madre.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinking_badges
The WCG always taught that Jesus was going to set up his Kingdom because man is unable to govern himself.
But one of their reasons for not voting was because God put leaders into office.I
Kevin
Tonto said, "When somebody is stealing or doing wrong in a corporation such as Goldman Sachs, which happened here recently in Malaysia, then the INDIVIDUAL is charged and dealt with. The corporation is not taken over by the State".
MY COMMENT - The difference between the WCG and Goldman Sachs is the type of legal entity incorporated. Goldman Sachs is a publicly traded stock corporation. The WCG is a privately held corporate sole member (i.e. the Pastor General).
Richard
As I recall, it was over a year before California dropped their case. Stan Rader was writing long, complicated articles in the Worldwide News. In one he told us that he found a law that went back to when California was ruled by Mexico (that would be before 1846), and was never cancelled by the California Republic or the United States. It was that Mexican law that won the case for the WCG. Does anybody remember that? It should be in the WN in about May or June 1980.
The receivership was a fishing expedition. That's not justice or due process. The receiver paying himself several hundred thousand dollars per year with members tithe money was morally outrageous.
Lake of Fire Church of God-- The Armstrong "corporate sole" came into existence AFTER the receivership. It was not structured in that fashion before that time.
Anon at 4:50 PM-- Actually it was the Petris Bill that stopped the Attorney General in his tracks and for ability to oversight religious corporations.
https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=HTES19800723.2.96&e=-------en--20--1--txt-txIN--------1
4.50 PM
That reminds me, many state laws are cut and paste from English law. Which is why laws such as bail are on the books, even though they run contrary to the spirit of equality (often only the rich can afford bail). This happened because these laws were too complicated for the public to follow at the time.
Haha James never does post my comments. He is too busy "spinning the story" against Herbert W Armstrong and the WCG, and doesn't want anyone posting relevant facts nor does he want anyone to refute his story with the facts.
http://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2013/09/samuel-kitchen-you-armstrong-haters-are.html
Kevin
http://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2014/03/samuel-kitchen-says-stop-urinating-down.html
Kevin
https://exposingtheworksofdarkness.wordpress.com/wade-brown-the-living-church-of-god/
We've had our fill of Armstrong worship! Samuel Kitchen, whether you like it or not these aren't the words of Jesus:
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against Herbert W Armstrong shall not be forgiven unto men.
Kevin McMillen
Morgantown, WV
Samuel Kitchen
I had the same experience with James Malm. His pet beliefs come first, contradictory facts are ignored. He relates to people as if they are his slaves. Very unchristian.
Kevin McMillen,
I have at times gone into the multitude of scriptures on the instruction God gives us in His Word, concerning the servants of God.
I don't worship a man. I never bow down and worship Herbert W Armstrong. I worship the God of the Bible, and Jesus Christ His Son.
Now, when one repents of walking CONTRARY to God, of disobeying the law of God, of sin (which is the transgression of God's Spiritual Law), and upon believing what God says, His gospel, His Word, the Holy Bible, they are baptized, and they receive God's Holy Spirit.
Now if we are not willing to believe what God's Word says, what is written in the Holy Bible, how can we receive God's Holy Spirit and be truly a "Christian" converted?
This is a prerequisite for receiving salvation, of being a Christian!
Now, there is a multitude of scriptures concerning the true servants of God. God gives instruction, and if we are in rebellion against that instruction, that instruction becomes CORRECTION.
It hurts. It's meant to guide and correct a course of action that is wrong, to a better conduct.
Now, you say I worship a man, but I only worship and Believe THE GOD OF THE BIBLE, just you haven't come to that point. You do not believe what God says.Therefore you do not understand these things, because you haven't done the prerequisites of receiving God's Holy Spirit which imparts to those who have surrendered wholly to God the understanding which comes from God.
Now this dirt piece James has written, concerning the 1979 receivership of the Worldwide Church of God, lacks all of the facts that are truly important. I wrote a comment and submitted it, talking about the 1023 certification of the churches in America. This makes these organizations as "public trusts". The WCG, was NOT a "public trust" but a constitutionally protected "Church".
Churches today, are in a dangerous position. What they attempted to do with the WCG and failed in, they will do to all of these things to these churches and will succeed in because they have signed an agreement with the state or federal government, coming under the corporation umbrella of the State or the United States.
The State of California believed the WCG was under the authority of the State of California. So they attempted to take it over, and failed because the WCG was protected by the Bill of Rights, and in fact other churches in California and America worked with coming up with the "Petris bill" because they were afraid what the State could do to them! So what the State attempted to do against the WCG failed.
Now the facts concerning these things isn't wanted by James. I mentioned his denomination that he belonged to. His church is in danger too.
Yet, that isn't wanted. It can't be spun against HWA and the WCG. That's the sort of thing engaged on this blog. If it could be spun against HWA, it would be allowed.
Kevin McMillen,
I have at times gone into the multitude of scriptures on the instruction God gives us in His Word, concerning the servants of God.
I don't worship a man. I never bow down and worship Herbert W Armstrong. I worship the God of the Bible, and Jesus Christ His Son.
Now, when one repents of walking CONTRARY to God, of disobeying the law of God, of sin (which is the transgression of God's Spiritual Law), and upon believing what God says, His gospel, His Word, the Holy Bible, they are baptized, and they receive God's Holy Spirit.
Now if we are not willing to believe what God's Word says, what is written in the Holy Bible, how can we receive God's Holy Spirit and be truly a "Christian" converted?
This is a prerequisite for receiving salvation, of being a Christian!
Now, there is a multitude of scriptures concerning the true servants of God. God gives instruction, and if we are in rebellion against that instruction, that instruction becomes CORRECTION.
It hurts. It's meant to guide and correct a course of action that is wrong, to a better conduct.
Now, you say I worship a man, but I only worship and Believe THE GOD OF THE BIBLE, just you haven't come to that point. You do not believe what God says.Therefore you do not understand these things, because you haven't done the prerequisites of receiving God's Holy Spirit which imparts to those who have surrendered wholly to God the understanding which comes from God.
Now this dirt piece James has written, concerning the 1979 receivership of the Worldwide Church of God, lacks all of the facts that are truly important. I wrote a comment and submitted it, talking about the 1023 certification of the churches in America. This makes these organizations as "public trusts". The WCG, was NOT a "public trust" but a constitutionally protected "Church".
Churches today, are in a dangerous position. What they attempted to do with the WCG and failed in, they will do to all of these things to these churches and will succeed in because they have signed an agreement with the state or federal government, coming under the corporation umbrella of the State or the United States.
The State of California believed the WCG was under the authority of the State of California. So they attempted to take it over, and failed because the WCG was protected by the Bill of Rights, and in fact other churches in California and America worked with coming up with the "Petris bill" because they were afraid what the State could do to them! So what the State attempted to do against the WCG failed.
Now the facts concerning these things isn't wanted by James. I mentioned his denomination that he belonged to. His church is in danger too.
Yet, that isn't wanted. It can't be spun against HWA and the WCG. That's the sort of thing engaged on this blog. If it could be spun against HWA, it would be allowed.
i did a little research on the matter and it became clear that high ranking church officials were exploiting the members tithe contributions...shame on them...
theres nothing new about such sins among religious organizations, but the significance of the fact that it was cog officials is the glaring irony of the preaching of the Holy Spirit by these same people what acted like animals totally lacking the Spirit of God; and that, in a nut shell, is the reason why the cogs have failed to make head way all these generations later...
c f ben yochanan
The all knowing Samuel Kitchen said:
I only worship and Believe THE GOD OF THE BIBLE, just you haven't come to that point. You do not believe what God says.Therefore you do not understand these things, because you haven't done the prerequisites of receiving God's Holy Spirit which imparts to those who have surrendered wholly to God the understanding which comes from God.
*****************************
Sammy boy, you say I haven't come to the point of worshipping and believing the God of the bible and haven't the Holy Spirit.
Ok then, I keep the Sabbath, I just kept my 35th Passover last year and my 52nd feast of tabernacles last year. I
I believe that God is a family of beings that we are in the process of being born into.
I also keep clean and unclean. But you know what Sammy my boy, I know that all these are the least of the commandments.
Most importantly I worship the Father and Jesus who sacrificed so that I can have a relationship with them.
I'm not going to say that herbie was a man of satan, but I'm not convinced he was a man of God either. I just don't know, but I do know that my salvation is not dependent upon herbie, nor is it dependent upon you oh knowledgeable one.
What I also know is that herbie plagiarized everything he taught. From G.G. Rupert, from Charles Taze Russell, and from others that I don't know of I'm sure.
So little Sammy my old padawan, keep thinking so highly of yourself and we'll just see where we each are in 1,000 years!
Kevin McMillen
Morgantown, WV
Me, your old Padawan? Reminds me of some lyrics from Johnny Cash in his song "redemption".
"My old friend Lucofer came, thought to keep me in chains, but i saw through the tricks of six sixty six"
Oh i remember 1 John 2:19. You haven't continued with the apostle of Christ, even rejecting parts of Paul's teaching, and especially the teachings of Christ, and are making clear that not everyone who warmed a seat in God's true Church was a member of the true Church.
So, if you was an old master(sarcasm), and i was your old padawan, I repented of walking in Satan's ways years ago, and now obey God and I believe what He says in His Word! And if I should neglect God who is over all and throw away His Word? I would be worse than a heathen.
Even your church is locking you into the system that Satan will use in the coming Great Tribulation. They signed the deak with the devil, and some love to have it so. Just because a counterfeit has similarities does not make it the truw and bonafide Church!
The Holy Spirit exemplifies God's attitude. The demons and the Devil exemplify their wrong attitudes.
You give evidence to those reading just how much ypu do NOT have God's Holy Spirit. You have not repented yet, thy heart is full of iniquity. Even Simon Magus believed, and took on Christian practices, but he did not have God's Holy Spirit, and was told to repent.
My ignorant old Padawan, are you claiming that Armstrong was an Apostle of Christ?
Which of Paul's writings have I ignored?
Ah, I see, you're still under the delusion that the WCG was God's true church. No wonder you're so confused!
Come on now sammy oh prophet, tell us how I've thrown out God's Word, don't just make blanket accusations, we need specifics!
Also, please inform us who "MY" church is? I haven't been a member of a physical man made "church" organization for over 24 years. Yet as I said, I still keep the Sabbath, the Feasts, etc. etc.
But the one thing that I don't do is worship a man. The two that I worship are sitting on thrones in heaven, they are Spirit, not man.
You are most definitely not exemplifying God's attitude you viper, you whitewashed sepulchre. Now that was exemplifying Jesus' attitude!
You think your/our salvation is dependent upon following a man who died over 30 years ago, and remains dead to this day?
You put your faith in a man and willfully, ignorantly, refuse to acknowledge that.I
Go to his grave, he's still there. He was not the end time Elijah! He was not an Apostle of God!
Again I ask, just where did Jesus ever say that blaspheming a man is unforgivable? So, I'm not worried about calling out herbie as an incestuous, arrogant, egotistical fool.
You on the other hand had better be afraid because worshipping any man is idolatry, whether you can see that or not!!!!!
Kevin McMillen
Morgantown, WV
Wow sammy, I went to your herbie shrine at http://wwcg-archives.com
What a joke, and you claim to not worship a man?
So, according to you herbie was the Elijah preparing "the way" for Christ. Does that make you the janitor of "the way", keeping it spotless until Christ decides to come?
I think one of the toilets along "the way" might need cleaning. Hop to it, you don't want herbie to see it, you might not get that acclaimed position at the first coming of herbie.
How pitiful!
Kevin McMillen
Morgantown, WV
"Decides to come"????
You think that the promise of Christ's coming is slack?
2 Peter 3
1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
And Matthew 24:48-51
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
And finally Jude 1
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
The Israelites worshipped a golden calf - if they had been smart like PCG, they could have picked a free rock and worshipped it instead.
PCG does not have any old rock - it is a "Prayer Rock" for their idol - HWA, but wait there is more! It is also a coronation seat for the throne of Israel, passed from the English monarchy direct to Gerald Flurry.
Gerald Flurry is not only an apostle and "that prophet", but also the king of Israel / UK. And wait, there is more - he is also Elisha (HWA is Elijah).
Jeez, Kevin. I disagree with Sam’s theology, but don’t you think you could make your case without the ad hominems and condescension? The guy deserves at least a little respect for his courage in posting here.
Sammy, Sammy, Sammy I see you are quite good at copy paste quoting of God's Word. Satan was pretty good at quoting it too. Commonality!!!!!!
Kevin McMillen
Kevin, why are you making sport of Sam? Your own comments show that your beliefs are more similar to the Kitchen family than they are to Dennis, NEO, Retired Professor, TLA, RSK, Allen, Gerald, BB, Or Tonto. If you think you've got the truth, why cheap shot someone whose beliefs are closest to yours?
I'm talking about believing God's Word. The apostle Paul died long ago, also Christ was crucified in the flesh, yet was the firstborm of many brethren to be resurrected! He died also, yet His Words, amd the words of His apostles is the foundation of the Church, along with the words of His prophets and Jesus Christ the cornerstone. These men died long ago, yet I believe what God said through them. Jesus Christ rose from the dead, do you think the servants of God will not rise just as He did?
But if I were to obey, that means apply them today, right now, the words written and preserved in the Holy Bible, in total submissipn to God the Father and Jesus Christ, you will falsely accuse me again as you have of being an idol worshipper. I mean read at least 1 Thes 1. Paul, the apostle commended the brethren for receiving what he and the apostles of Christ taught, in so much that there was no need for the apostles to travel there to preach, and called their loyalty and faithfulness (actions you call idolatry) their "labor of love " "work of faith" etc. He told them theu had turned from worshipping idols to worshipping the true and living God!
Yet, if i follow their example, you would lile me to believe that I am an idolator?
The Word of God is true and every man who speaks against it is a liar.
Sam's beliefs are not similar to mine!
Kevin McMillen
They are Kevin. Most feuds in the world are between neighbors. Opposites often claim to respect each others differences. My family received a life of flack from sda relatives. Until both sda7 and wcg shed their "cult" status in the eighties and all had to join their respective splinters and thus moved from "neighbors" to "total opposites".
Nck
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