One of the accusations that is frequently lobbed against us, by hit and run comments, is that we destroy peoples faith. Of course, that was the favorite mantra that the Church of God used to quell anyone who might think differently than the established system was advocating. Herbert Armstrong and Church Administration regularly threw that accusation out any time there was the slightest hint of turbulence arising in the church. It was also used as a moneymaking tool to shame members into constantly giving more and more money to fund the system, just like we are witnessing today in almost every group out there.
Fear of losing faith was a strong motivator in keeping people in line. The threat of an angry god not allowing us into Petra was a scary thing for many people that led them to knee jerk reactions any time someone criticized the church or the leadership.
We were set up in the church to revere our leaders as the personal mouthpiece of Christ on earth. Whatever they said we were to obey without ceasing and questioning. To question was to question God himself! We loved to mock the Catholics for their strict obedience to the Pope, and yet we were just as worshipful and dogmatic when it came to Herbert Armstrong. We see this evident still in the various splinter groups of the church today. Look at how Gerald Flurry and Dave Pack are revered by their devotees today. They are third in command under God and Christ! Dave and Gerald are the end time mouthpiece sent by God!
Church members were given an endless stream of booklets, magazines, form letters, books, TV programs and correspondence courses to indoctrinate them. Everything was laid out in black and white as to how people were to believe and act. All of that material did nothing to help establish faith in a person. If you cornered 98% of the members of any given Church of God today and asked them to prove any doctrine of the church, out of the Bible, WITHOUT using any church-related literature in front of them, they could not do it. Having an endless list of doctrines and rules to follow does not establish faith. It never has and never will.
When you look at the few followers of Jesus that actually got it, they were not worried about being zealous, adhering to innumerable laws and rules, or dependant upon someone to tell them how to act or believe. Their minds were totally overwhelmed by the love and compassion that was shown them that they totally reveled in the grace. Look at the thief on the cross. He did not have to keep any Sabbath, not eat any pork, or be controlled by some religious Pharisaical nut-job. He did nothing but look at Jesus and witness something that he knew he wanted and needed. That was faith at its purest form.
What we are witnessing in the Church of God today is a group of men who are mentally unstable. Never has the church had such a crop of mentally unbalanced men. They all could be test cases for the current DSM manual for mental disorders!
Dave Pack and Gerald Flurry top the list, quickly followed by Bob Thiel, James Malm, and Ron Weinland. These top five are psychopaths getting really close to leading their followers down dark roads of despair, which may, unfortunately, lead to the deaths of many.
The fact that Pack and Flurry have surrounded themselves with a small cabal of men who publicly back them in regards to every word they utter shows just how controlling these two are. Somewhere, deep down in the farthest reaches of the minds of these men who support Flurry and Pack, there has to be some spark that tells them what they are hearing is a load of bullshit. Either they are too blinded to wake up or they inwardly are just as corrupt and vile as the men they follow. Being part of the inner circle of the Church of God has always had a strong appeal to so many mentally unbalanced men over the decades.
The same goes for Bob Thiel and James Malm. Malm is all about control. Not a single thing he advocates will ever create faith in his few followers. He demands zealotry from everyone and strict adherence to the rules and yet Jesus broke the rules over and over leading people to want what he had, so-much-so that they knew that just by touching his garment they would be healed. That is true zealousness! Not one single law was required to be kept. No snarling and spitting of Old Covenant laws can ever accomplish that.
And then, there is Bob Thiel. Really? WTF are we witnessing in him? Never have we witnessed a man who is so full of himself as we are in Thiel. His self-importance knows no boundaries; just like his thought processes. A mentally stable mind would be able to articulate one goal, one vision or one topic at a time. Thiel's mind wanders as incessantly as his hands do. Who needs to hear a sermon with 40 different topics covered in it? How in the hell does that build up one's faith? I truly feel sorry for his African followers. I am sure many of them are sincere in their beliefs and want to do what is right, but Thiel is leading them astray with his narcissistic personality. It is all about him, his double blessing and his dreams. His message is never about Jesus. It is never about real grace. It is never about what justification is all about. It is never about simple faith. A faith that can be summed up on in a simple, 'help!" or "thanks!"
If what I post here, or what Dennis, TLA, SHT or others post here causes someone to lose their faith, then their faith was not faith after all, but wishful thinking. Reading about evolution, atheism, agnosticism does not destroy faith. Being forced to question one's adherence to certain splinter group leaders does not destroy faith. Reading about the myriad of lives destroyed by the church does not destroy faith.
I for one feel no need to have to "prove" anything when it comes to God, the Bible, truth, or any other subject that Armstrongism demanded of us. It was a tiresome and unrewarding process. I find it much more rewarding to live in the mystery and uncertainty, Living in the questions and having to wrestle with things when it comes to religion and faith is much more rewarding.
If one wants to look at real faith, it is tied to a future vision. An assurance in the future, a future we are so assured of that we know we already possess the inheritance of Christ in our lives. We know that the kingdom is not here in a physical sense but we are so assured of that kingdom that we live it out today in our lives and want to share it with the world around us. We still may screw up, often, daily or hourly, but it is ok. We can still stand firm because we know what was, is, and will be accomplished.
Just my 2 cents.
9 comments:
First, I was already, more or less, an agnostic before I ever posted.
Second, I have a lot of faith and it is great because it is not dependent on what any person has to say. After WCG, it is wonderful not to worry about being disappointed.
Third, when I left the WCG, I wanted to make sure my belief system included everyone. No more 'chosen people', no more 'God has a plan for ME'. I am as insignificant as the next person, which helps me be thankful for what I have and opens the door for being empathetic. Gone are the days of 'me' versus 'them'.
Fourth, death. After years of growing up scared of dying in the Lake of Fire, being left behind and having my finger nails pulled out by some Nazi, I have made my peace with death. In fact, preference to dying over continuing to attend the WCG was a motivating factor. I can't take credit for that - I was babysitting my nephew at services prior to leaving the WCG when my nephew whispered in my ear he would rather have his head cut off then to sit there any longer. It made me laugh because I felt the same way. Then I started thinking about it and well, one thing led to another.
Fifth, really....are you going to blame some one - any one - for losing your faith, if it is legitimate? What would God say?
What I find so interesting is the way leaving Armstrongism often inspires people to test and explore their faith in ways they never would have before.
After I got out on my own and joined the Navy, I loved the fact that I could go to the chapel on Sunday morning, sit in the same seat, and have Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, and a variety of other faiths presented to me one after another.
The Chaplins were there to give me information rather than push me in one direction or another.
It was nice to explore and experience without any pressure to conform or obey.
In the end I found a spiritual state of mind that works for me.
It isn't about being right or wrong, it's about loving and being loved.
And again, that's just what works for me. I'm finding more peace now and am pleasantly surprised to find the happiness that follows.
I truly feel sorry for his African followers. I am sure many of them are sincere in their beliefs and want to do what is right, but Thiel is leading them astray with his narcissistic personality.
Don't worry about them. They look to their local African leader, not to the wealthy Americans who fund them. When they are by themselves, speaking their native languages that Thiel hasn't learned, they practice whatever the local man tells them. In most cases there aren't major conflicts between different American sponsors, but at one point there was an African group taking money from two ACOGs and a Pentecostal church. Their crushing poverty apparently gives them sufficient motivation to put on whatever act is needed when the Great Bwana comes from America, then to go back to the daily care of their local pastor.
No2HWA wrote, "Fear of losing faith was a strong motivator in keeping people in line. The threat of an angry god not allowing us into Petra was a scary thing for many people that led them to knee jerk reactions any time someone criticized the church or the leadership".
MY COMMENT - Gary, you must have written this "on the run" because you forgot the obvious. I apologize to you for pointing it out. Because "Fear of losing faith" meant more than Philadelphian Christian versus Laodicean Christian (the Philadelphians were delivered from the Great Tribulation taken to Petra Place of Safety while the Laodiceans were to be tried by fire in the Great Tribulation - 50% of the Church; 1 was taken and 1 was left, etc.). In classic Armstrongism, "losing faith" in Armstrong or the WCG means risk of an angry God condemning us to LAKE OF FIRE ETERNAL DAMNATION.
My Splinter Church is the Lake of Fire Church of God named for ministering to all those who are condemned to the Lake of Fire according to Armstrong's teachings because they had the brains to question Herbert W. Armstrong's authority, his doctrines and WCG dogma.
It's OK to question!
Richard
This post is spot on. Good job, Gary. I agree with you 100%.
“Are We Capable of Causing People To Lose Their Faith?”
Well, it does look like David C. Pack can cause people to lose their faith.
At the start of David Pack's Restored Church, it sounded like they were going to be the most informed people on the planet and have precision of doctrine. David Pack originally talked about restoring EVERYTHING that Herbert W. Armstrong had taught at the time of his death on January 16, 1986. ALL the teachings of the Worldwide Church of God had come through Herbert W. Armstrong. Herbert W. Armstrong was the Elijah who was prophesied to restore ALL things. The understanding that Herbert W. Armstrong was the Elijah who had restored ALL things was a great wall of defence against doctrinal heresy.
Later, however, David Pack claimed that he himself was the Elijah and that Herbert W. Armstrong had basically been wrong. David Pack's own booklet proving that Herbert W. Armstrong was the Elijah got deleted. Hours of sermon noise with “130 proofs” that David Pack was the Elijah and that Herbert W. Armstrong had actually been in the office of Moses paved the way for David Pack to “restore” his own “common” theft doctrine and to make up all sorts of “first dominion” prophetic nonsense as he went along.
After such massive doctrinal changes, how will Restored Church members ever again be able to trust anyone? They will learn that they do not know what is in a man or what sort of crazy ideas a man will come up with in the future. Falling for such a colossal Bait & Switch scam will leave them extremely discouraged, especially if it also leaves them destitute.
Let's hear it for Jelly!
https://youtu.be/eMyZcB8i41Q?t=95
“Are We Capable of Causing People To Lose Their Faith?”
In the biblical book of Revelation, the people of the church in Philadelphia were told to hold on to what they have so that no one will take their crown. All sorts of people on the so-called COG scene today seem to be trying hard to destroy other people's faith.
Apostates like Joseph W. Tkach, Sr. destroyed a lot of people's beliefs with his Great Apostasy of 1995. Apparently, virtually everything that HWA had taught was all wrong, except for tithing, of course, which is holy and right and true and never wrong, as even Satan's ham-eating, Sunday-keeping, false “ministers” could tell Joe, Sr's son Joey, Jr.
Trying to appeal to unrepentant unbelievers, the UCG gets people to observe its “Winter Family X-mass Weekend,” which many seem to think is so much better than the Feast of Tabernacles. When the leaders try to come up with new ideas of their own for the church, this is the sort of thing that they come up with. Though they think that they know better than HWA did about how to grow the church, this is how they show that they really do have only dung for brains.
When COGWA split off from the UCG in 2010, it took with it the “Winter Family X-mass Weekend” idea, just like the Protestants took Sunday-keeping with them when they split off from the Roman Catholic Church.
People without vision, like David Hulme, led other spiritually blind people into nothingness.
The LCG is all about Roderick Meredith competing with HWA and trying to come up with his own “doctrinal upgrade” nonsense to try to make Rod look smarter than HWA. It does the opposite. Rod always wanted to correct HWA rather than accept HWA's correction.
Major false prophets like Gerald Flurry try very hard to completely, totally, utterly destroy people's faith by passing off all of his own satanic abuse as the “government of God.” The victims are supposed to worship Gerald with all the great titles that he came up with for himself (usually by stealing them from Jesus).
Major false prophets like David Pack try very hard to make people thoroughly sick of religion by coming up with “common” theft scams to leave them destitute and seemingly endless “first dominion” prophetic vomit until they get sick of it all and puke too.
Minor false prophets like Ronald Weinland try to turn people to his failed prophetic fantasy fiction novels.
Minor false prophets like Bob Thiel try to turn people to demon-inspired, pagan, Mayan, Kenyan, and Catholic prophecies and fake news on television.
Rebels like Norman S. Edwards taught against hierarchical government in the church. Rather than everyone in the church believing the same things, he thought that everyone should disagree with each other about everything, but somehow “disagree without being disagreeable.”
Rebels like James Malm tells people to reject what HWA had taught but to listen to all the confusion that Malm makes up. Then, people are supposed to think that they are finally “thinking for themselves.”
It is possible that David Pack was put here, 7:19, to further demonstrate and dramatize what has always been part of the Armstrong movement: doctrinal and spiritual manipulation by a persuasive orator, much the same as HWA was as he modified the basis for and the tenets of COG-7. The farce becomes magnified as the leader attempts to walk the talk as would a biblical figure genuinely inspired by God.
Fortunately, most individuals see through it. We were all part of a very small minority, whether we were scammed (first generation), brought in by our parents (second generation), or got there through “innoculation” (unfortunate spouse).
The people we witness as splinter leaders are simply not as well honed in their craft as HWA. They are not able to efficiently exploit and execute their franchise to the extent that they can amass and collect hugh followings. It’s like a bunch of janitors and low-level supervisors divying up a company and attempting to grow their portions to the level of the originator. Ain’t never gonna happn, no how, and no way!
BB
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