David, in a previous comment, said:
"When I began questioning the church as a teen I had delusions for around a year where I was convinced that a demon was talking to me and trying to trick me into leaving, as the church ministers had told us as children that demons followed us and watched our every move, reporting our actions to Satan and looking for an opportunity to possess us should we deviate from the church. I didn’t admit verbally for nearly two years that I questioned the teachings for fear that I would be attacked by demons. I am in my mid 30s and still can’t sleep without a light on in my home because the pitch dark makes me feel like something is closing in on me and suffocating me."
This comment is an absolutely significant and honest insight into what life was like for those of us who were growing up within the Worldwide Church of God. Fear was predominant in nearly every facet of the formative years of so many growing up within the Church - especially the fear of demons.
I can remember sitting in the car driving to Church one day as a toddler - probably no older than 3 or 4 at the time. A couple who we drove to the Church was in the car talking about how demons were bothering her, and how they had the power, and we needed to be careful. She refused to stop talking about demons, and so, my parents had to stop picking her up to take her to Church. You can't imagine how this would impression into the mind of a young kid.
I can remember being afraid of demons in my childhood. I was always on the lookout for supernatural things to happen, because that's what was talked about in my house on a nearly constant basis - and feared. Many times in my childhood, I would be told "listen" - we'd mute the TV, and listen carefully - for what was thought to have been a demon lurking and making noise somewhere in the house. When a crowbar fell upstairs in the attic for no reason, we attributed that to a demon. I can remember walking to the separated garage out back for something, and being scared there was a demon in the garage and running back to the house. I can remember not wanting to go down in the basement because I was afraid of a spirit down there. I can also remember covering my head because things I 'saw' I attributed to darkness and evil. (some of what I experienced were normal visual disturbances as a result of extremely low light).
I would sleep with all the blankets over my head, even in 90-degree heat - because of my fears. (My mother would take the blankets off me, but as soon as she left, I grabbed them again). I had dreams about furniture moving by themselves - and woke up thinking it was real. When I got a little older, the fear enveloped U.F.O's, because I was told these were demonic too, and of course, if we lose our protection in the Church for whatever reason, then we're open to "demonic attack", so we were told, because being in the Church meant we were protected and safe from, well, just about everything - so long as we were obedient and compliant to the ministry.
When one of my parents was temporarily removed from the Church for a few times and maybe half a time (lol), the fears got even worse - I was only "half protected", even though the parent who was in the Church tried to reassure me about the doctrine of sanctification and children in the Church. So the fears were escalating and the anxiety was ramping up even more than before.
This was supposedly in the "One True Church". This was supposedly in a "Christian Church". While we made waves upon waves railing against mainstream Christianity and protestants, and Christmas and paganism, and Easter, and Sunday, and ham, Jesus was nowhere to be found in my house. Nowhere. Because any mention of Jesus by anyone not in the Church was deemed "pagan". We would mute the TV when the "Gospel Quartet" from Hee Haw came on. We would mute the TV at any other preacher but Herbert - and when Herbert came on with his telecast, what was it about? Doom. War. Impending destruction soon to come. We would hide from "Demonic influence" when little kids would come to the door on Halloween. And that night was always scary because we were told demons were especially active around Halloween... and again, around Passover.
Of course, demons were responsible for wanting to attack us at every turn. Watch out going to the Feast. Why did the car break down? Demons. Why did this person get sick? Demons. So whenever the Sabbath and Holy Days came around, it's watch your back because "demon activity gets worse this time of year". Where was this Jesus we were said to have been worshipping? Where was God? Where was God's power? Because truth be told, we gave a whole heck of a lot more power to demons then we ever did to the power of Christ! All you have to do is read the old Worldwide News papers to prove this - a WHOLE SET OF ARTICLES was devoted to the power of Satan, on the front page, of the Worldwide news back in the mid-1970s.
This was what was being fed to the children. Intentionally, or unintentionally. Not even mentioning the sermon content of the time. Sermons about demons doing this, or that. And then there were the stories of the other Church members. I can remember one talking about how food would appear on her table during the days of Unleavened Bread to tempt her into breaking the Law. For a kid, this is terrifying. And here's the thing - these are just a few examples of decades of this kind of brainwashing.
I don't say these things lightly, and I say them fully honest and transparent to bring home this point: When a person who grew up in the Church speaks out about the things that happened in the Church and in their lives because of the Church, do not dismiss them, or take them lightly, or think that they (We) are blowing these things out of proportion. We are not. We lived it, and we know it - and we will talk about it, and it is exactly what our reality is and was. And sadly, there are parents and ministers and leaders who continue to perpetuate and fertilize the toxicity of the rampant abuse to the young people through lies, through fear, with chains and shackles destroying so much of their young lives and think they are doing the right thing by doing it.
This is why I will tell you firmly and clearly, right in the eye - that the Churches of Armstrongism are NOT CHRISTIAN CHURCHES. They may claim Christ, they may think they know Christ, they may say they have the only way, they may think everyone else is wrong. As one who lived through it, may I say that the fruits show they are not only not Christian, but the proliferation and embodiment of evil in it's darkest form. I lived it, I know. Others lived it, they know. Thankfully, more and more of us are speaking out; and will continue to do so.
The Children of the Splinters deserve freedom from the oppression of lies and deception. It's the LEAST we can do for them.
34 comments:
It's a medieaval mindset.
All children should through the "magical phase" in lighter fashion I agree.
However you should try some of the original Fairy Tales, teaching children not to wander off in the wolf infested woods, before Walt Disney put an American cartoonesk spin on the ancient stories.
Modern "Urban Legends" teach in the same manner. Like everyone knows the story how a neighbor's cousins friend got a kidney removed in Thailand. It just says beware for dangers abroad. The alligator in the Manhattan sewers. Wash your hands after doing the little or the big thing.
nck
The church leaders were just stupid, and lacked the common sense to tailor messages specifically to the different subgroups who were part of the whole. That is what naturally happens when the primary message is based on extremism or fanaticism. They knew no moderation or finesse, and really didn’t worry about the tremendous damages they did along the way. And we let them get away with it. A stupid message for stupid people!
BB
SHT said: “I can remember walking to the separated garage out back for something, and being scared there was a demon in the garage and running back to the house. I can remember not wanting to go down in the basement because I was afraid of a spirit down there...”
What about those who actually witness ghostly shadows and poltergeists??!! It’s one thing to be a kid and scared at things that go bump in the night...it’s another to be an adult and actually experience something paranormal that scares the crap outta ya!
Thank you for posting this, SHT. I know that the only reason preaching about demons was done was to scare the people into giving money to herbert. To preach Jesus’ power would to remove that fear. God is love. Love casts out fear. Jesus defeated satan and his demons on the cross, rendering them powerless. The only power they have are if we believe their lies that they have power, and that’s exactly what the church did; lie about their power. WE have more power than they.
I’m so sorry you had to endure that horrible abuse all through your childhood. It is inexcusable. May your healing be quick and thorough.
It’s strange that the church always gave more power to Satan and demons that they ever did to the power of Jesus. Demons and sex trumped Jesus in every sermon and article.
I am a generally empirical, evidential and skeptical thinker, who demands a lot of facts for decision making. I do however testify to the real existence of demons, and have had a couple of encounters, over the decades, that were profound, unexplainable and interactive. No not just sounds or coincidences, but actual interaction and response. Scary and very weird.
I am sure that many readers here will confirm similar.
HOWEVER- There is also superstition, magic thinking, confirmation bias, and ignorance that humans have that result in trying to fit the supernatural into everything.
The WCG was famous for doing this in a wide variety of topics and categories of life, and with the topics of demons it was the same as well. IMHO , 99.9% of demonic influence (if at all) is subtle and suggestive, and not readily apparent except for the rarest of instances.
Even in the Bible , it appears that demons were prominent at selective times, and especially at the time of the Messiah's presence on the Earth.
PS-- THE TOOTH FAIRY IS NOT PAGAN! and was a modern creation by dentists in the 1920s to encourage kids to go to the dentist. So go ahead, pull your teeth out , and get money. GOG THEOLOGICAL QUESTION- do you have to "tithe" on tooth fairy money, or (if you are in Pack's church) do you have to donate your under the pillow bonus to the "Common"?
Inquiring minds need to know!
As an adult, I never paid much attention to this, so I was shocked when one of my kids' teachers told me what he was saying in class.
There is a good reason why they rate movies as G and PG - so you know which movies not to take your little children to.
Question for Dennis: we had a paid elder (late 1970s) who told us when he visited a mental institution, that the inmates would keep mumbling "man of God" as he walked past them.
Do you think this guy was making it up or embellishing what happened?
I have never visited a mental institution, but would they let people with mental problems wander around and talk to unknown (to them) visitors?
At the time I believed all ministers always told the truth, so I never questioned his account.
Ha! Nice to have grown out of that mindset. It did take a number of years, though.
As I've said before, Christians should get down on their knees and thank God for "Satan!", because that's been one of the best marketing and recruitment ploys ever, for Christianity.
I remember one day, being a kid as my father drove us to WCG Sabbath services in the family's hooptie Mercury Montego station wagon, which had a big snout with broken fins (which embarrassed me) on the front grille.
I was a kid with a zealot Local Elder father who liked Garner Ted's "child beating" booklet. So, under that high pressure, I'd occasionally let off steam by making a joke that I was sure would be deemed "acceptable" (Like when we got to our Jekyll Island FOT hotel room, and I killed a couple of Palmetto bugs in the bathroom sink, and when asked what I was doing, told my parents I was "letting them stew in their own juices", which they thought was hilarious. Another 'funny' I got away with was when a caravan of cars stopped at South of the Border one night on the way to a Florida FOT. With my 2nd tithe money I bought this little gag thing they sold there.
Following the instructions, I inserted it between the car's coil wire and the distributor. When we all went to leave in the morning and my father tried to start the car, it made a whistling sound and a lot of smoke. I told my father it was a gag and removed it so we could get on our way. My father feigned a slight laugh, and we all left. Looking back, I'm not sure how I got away with that one. Probably a combination of the fact that we were checked out and there wasn't a room to take me back into for "discipline", that he was thrilled that it wasn't a genuine 'hooptie breakdown', and that there were all the caravan's feastgoers waiting to continue on to the Best Feast Ever, with some cars that probably shouldn't sit idling.
But, I digress.
Back to being in the back seat of the Montego with my sisters on our way to Sabbath services-
One of my parents mentioned something about one of the "world's" churches. So, I thought they were fair game and I could say something and mock them. Trying to be funny, I imitated an old lady's voice and said something like, "I like going to the Lutheran church!"
Holy shit! That did not go over well. My father immediately said that if I were to ever say anything like that again, that he'd have me "checked for demons!"
Unfortunately, my father had recently performed an "exorcism" on a young man in the 'church'. I later realized that the young man was just acting out because his father was a womanizer and addicted to gambling, which was tearing the family apart.
As stupid as it sounds to me now, when I left the PCG I was worried that God would remove his "protection" over me and that demons would terrorize me. The ministry loved sharing stories about demons attacking "God's people" in sermons and bible studies as a scare tactic to prevent anyone from leaving the church.
This is incredible! For all practicle purposes, the WCG created a world for it's members that was just as dark and superstitious as any pagan culture. And these jerks were against telling ghost stories!
If only I had only heard about Jesus as much as I heard about demons while growing up.
I was in a splinter group back in 09 when a "minister" said something similar at the Feast of Tabernacles.
Although he did not mention the word demons, he did say during the blessing of the little children; that if the parents of a little child left the church, referring to their physical group (they never say the church at large making it spiritual), that the little child will have their protection removed by God. This of course inferring that they would be open to attacks by Satan and his demons.
If one just followed that thought process out logically, the only conclusion one could come to, is that God is not going to make a little child with no control over anything, open to that sort of attack.
As wrong as it is, I get the fear mongering. Its meant to keep tithe payers in the group. Many ministers are prone to this behavior.
Some in that group heard the same thing I did that day and realized it as error. Like me, they are no longer there...smart choice.
8:50
Everyone here hates wcg because we without hesitation believed it was real. No we know it is all Hollywood special effects. I do not for a moment believe Tonto met a demon. He is a freakin liar and I dare to have the demon face me. There is no extra terrestriality, no, nothing, nada. All figments of the imagination.
I love 8:50 freakin hilarious story about the old lady voice ans the lutherans. As a kid I was known for my denon impressions, intense stares and saying with deep voice, "you cannot come to my party". Oh wait that might just have been real me explaining we did not do birthdays.
Nck
TLA,
I heard a similar story about a minister relating that some inmates mumbled a “man of god.” I don’t remember who the minister was. I had dealings with several mental people. One in particular went off the deep end. He thought he could stand in traffic and cars could drive through him and he would not feel it. The short story is got him to a medical doctor and once he got on meds he was able to function “normally.” Another member I dealt with. After dealing with him for about 2 hours at 5 am, I took him to a local hospital and checked him in to the mental ward. As I was leaving the hospital a nurse came running up to me and said, “ doctor we can’t get Robert (not real name) to let us give him a shot. I walked back to the room where Robert was and said, Robert bend over, which he did and the nurse then gave him the shot. I never told the nurse I was not a doctor. I never heard any demons. Now the story has a good ending, after treatment Robert was released. He was able lead a normal life. He called and thanked me several times over the months after that. He went on to become a math teacher at a local college. By the way I kinda enjoyed being a doctor for the moment.
Jim-AZ
I remember a popular minister going crazy after the first tkach changes.
At Sep it was rumored he would come to prophecy. Non of the ministers mentioned not even in a sermon where the issue was adressed to the kids, that the poor fellow may have been demon posessed.
I would have hit him with a torch if I had met him at a security round. If he would have spoken in tongues I might have drawn a circle with my torch.......and shout.....It is time Lord ....to come home from the dust...
Nck
During my many years in the church, and particularly when in LCG, I heard few sermons about Jesus but oh so many about Satan and demons. You are right when you say demons were presented as more powerful than Jesus. Since leaving LCG and actually studying real theology about Jesus it was astounding to know that Satan and the demons have no power over us as believers. We no longer need to live in fear of them.
Anonymous at 8:58 AM said...“As stupid as it sounds to me now, when I left the PCG I was worried that God would remove his 'protection' over me and that demons would terrorize me. The ministry loved sharing stories about demons attacking 'God's people' in sermons and bible studies as a scare tactic to prevent anyone from leaving the church.”
Satan and his demons are the ones behind That False Prophet Gerald Flurry and his satanic PCG imposter cult. Satan and his demons do their terrorizing through their false prophet Gerald Flurry and the fake ministers he set up in the PCG when real WCG ministers refused to go with him.
Why do you suppose that Gerald Flurry started off his PCG cult with a plagiarized and revised Malachi's Message book that he now teaches was “delivered by a mighty angel” and is the “little scroll” mentioned in Revelation?
Why do you suppose that Gerald Flurry immediately did away with the “Great Commission” to preach the gospel of the kingdom of God, which HWA had called the “very purpose” and the “true purpose” of the church? Gerald Flurry said in his plagiarized Malachi's Mess. book that with a new church era comes a “new commission” to “warn the Laodiceans,” which in actual practice means to cause division among former WCG people and to wreck their families and friendships. Talk about utterly perverting the true gospel and replacing it with something that is no “good news” at all!!!
Why do you suppose that Gerald Flurry soon began to teach that he himself, rather than Jesus, was “That Prophet” mentioned in Deuteronomy that everyone had to listen to or else God would call them to account?
Why do you suppose that Gerald Flurry spent all his time coming up with all sorts of names, titles, offices, and positions for himself? He was so busy wanting to be a prophet and making up nonsense that he did not even realize for about the first twenty years of his scam that HWA had taught that the church was led by an apostle (that is, “one sent forth” to preach the gospel), not by a prophet.
Why do you suppose that Satan's apostate Tkaches sold the copyrights to some of HWA's books and booklets to Satan's false prophet Gerald Flurry?
Why do you suppose that Gerald Flurry edited and changed HWA's literature, including his last book called Mystery of the Ages?
Why do you suppose that Gerald Flurry has commanded his followers to cut off all contact with close family members who have not gone along with his satanic lies? HWA had talked about Malachi's real message of God sending someone to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers.
Why do you suppose the PCG has so many old sex maniacs, sex perverts, and predators in it who become angry and lie and slander if they do not get what they want?
With the mass confusion of the apostate Tkaches' total apostasy in the WCG in 1995, Gerald Flurry and his satanic PCG imposter cult were able to slip in some absolutely incredible whoppers of their own while pretending to be holding fast to everything that HWA had taught.
Blogger nck said...
8:50...
8:50 here.
Dang, nck, you seriously need to review your writings for typos.
Agreed that Tonto never met a demon. Not that he's a "liar" as you call him, since he probably believes it. It took a bunch of post-WCG years of experiences and learning about cult-induced phenomena before I knew better.
Glad you liked my "old lady Lutheran voice" anecdote.
It rained unusually hard today. Must be demons.
Anon @ August 2, 2019 at 10:57 AM,
Yes, Gerald Flurry's "church" is a cult, too.
You asked, "Why do you suppose the PCG has so many old sex maniacs, sex perverts, and predators in it who become angry and lie and slander if they do not get what they want?"
I suppose that it's because it's an offshoot of HWA's "church", and HWA was a daughter-raper, and his son GTA was a serial sexual predator- both of whom would "become angry and lie and slander if they did not get what they wanted"
11:19
I'm sorry for the typos.
I do respect anyones belief. I watched people dance around a pole in a township and never knew what "church" it represented.
However I have no qualms calling a person a liar when it is claimed that one preacher (like hwa) is not speaking about the "right type of demons" and continues to claim to indeed have met the "real deal."
Yeah right, go and trick your grandmother with those figments of imaginations. Theres medicine to keep any demon down without a straight jacket.
I do acknowledge that "demon possesed" people might have had incredibly compromised childhoods, like split personalities after repeated abuse.
None of them is stronger than a man. Az I said a blow with a torch would do the trick if in uncontrolled circumstance.
Nck
Nck:
Have you read the book Tavistock Institute by Daniel Estulin? I think you will like it. Seems to fit in with some of your theories (in so far as I understand them).
Very scary stuff.
torch = flashlight
I've shot in a couple of them. Usually the staff likes to let them mingle and watch if theyre not known to be violent or "criminally insane". Its rarely like the creepy houses of horror you see in films. We usually ate lunch in the common area if the institution offered to feed us. Some patients are very cognitive (in a normal human sense, not like ESP), some are not very interested in their surroundings.
To be honest, I dont think it would be that hard to identify a churchman in that setting. Hardly an impressive deduction.
But I also suspect that WCG officials' egos being what they are, one patient said to the other "Oh, another ministurd" and the elder magnified that into masses of committed moaning "Man of God! Man of God!"
I will say though, on another occasion I walked through a state facility on a contract job involving work being done in what you'd call the high-security area. That staff did not try to confine most of the patients in that area. They just sent several security guards with us and told us not to make eye contact.
Armstrongism as a religious philosophy embraced fear motivation on so many levels in handling adult members, that I believe they lost all sense of its impact on the young.
“The Germans” were coming, meaning that if members didn’t pay, pray, obey, and stay, they’d end up on meathooks.
People of color were going to riot, destroying everything in their path, so once again, ppos, or yet another variety of gentiles were going to get you.
Before the end times, everyone around you was going to “go” gay or bisexual, so you’d better ppos, or you’d lose God’s protection and would probably get ‘mo’d.
Horrible incurable disease epidemics were going to break out. Ppos, or, you’d probably get them and maybe even die.
Nuclear bombs were going to drop. In this case, you’d probably be spared if you didn’t ppos, so that you’d get to experience the entire panorama of the tribulation for the whole 3-1/2 years.
Earthquakes, and extreme weather were soon to come. If you didn’t ppos, and therefore have God’s protection for which the church was the gatekeeper, you’d most likely lose everything.
If you did not tithe (the most important part of ppos), God was going to curse your financial picture horribly.
If you didn’t ppos, you would not qualify for God’s protection in the place of safety.
If you didn’t ppos at the place of safety, you would be cut off from the camp. Maybe even be stoned or whipped by the ministers.
They covered just about everything. However, from a personal perspective, I would much prefer to have been lied to as a child about Santa Claus than about demons, the Germans, and all their other crap! HWA was nothing more than a troll! Nothing but hatred comes from holding people in a perpetual state of fear, and using that to extort everything meaningful from their lives.
BB
2:59
Thank you. I found out long time ago that some of the observations I do are turned into books a decade later. It helps when you get to sit with policymakers or marketing executives. Like HWA I have advance knowledge on dome of the stuff people will eat, wear or might believe in the (near) future.
Non of it is conspiracy, just regular business school or politics.
I still have amazing stories about what some groups got themselves involved with while pursuing their own "prophecy" agenda that found itseldlf exaxtly alligned with major think tanks everyone knows.
I've been in school with some Bilderbergers. The ones I know are actually very nice people. No lizzards or anything. Although they pursue a clear (open for many insiders at policy level) agenda in the hope it benefits all.
Yep cigarettes are female liberation or marlboro freedom for men. The food industry is eben more amazing than politics to engineer consent. Yesterday Trump announced Euroeans will eat american hormone genetically engineered beef from now on to save the car industry.
Nck
2:59
Both Tavistock and groups like bilderbergers emerged from a post war need.
BB and I clash at times because we both interpret "a fear of the germans" differently. This "fear" has been a useful tool in foreign policy to get the europeans to apreciate rock music and free markets.
I adress "fear" often and like a topic about "demons".
Nck
Nck - apparently you never address a spellchecker!!! LOL
You do keep us entertained.
TLA
Apparently it is getting worse. It occurs to me that at least the "spell demon" has taken posession. Could you please cast a "spell".
nck
Axially (misspelling intentional) in the computer industry, the word is spelled “daemon”, nck!
Did Gary change the font colors or is it just me being posessed?
Nck
Post a Comment