Just a reminder, in Dave's own words, of the way he makes his money and what he expects of the gullible as they gyrate in their seats amazed at his powerful, inspired meaningless sermons and calling.
"If you hold those riches, I'm telling you, you trust in them""Go get a big chunk out of your home. And put your money where your mouth is and send it here. And I'm not talking about one, two, three thousand either. How about ten, twenty, thirty, fifty, or one hundred thousand dollars? Go do it.""Wives, you can be independent in this. You have 1/2 the worth of whatever you have in your house.I'm officially telling you this...Wives, legally you have the 1/2 the funds. What are you going to do about it?...Husbands...'well, my wife is not in the church'...tell her...'you don't have a voice woman' ""Go get those assets and get them here""Don't sit on vast resources that we can use now""We are not a splinter""I do not covet your silver or gold...the gold and silver is God's and He will get it someway""We do not have the funds...plans...bookstores...We need to redesign our web site...We need many hundreds of thousands of dollars to arrive at God's headquarters soon...the timing is now""This is different...ask Him for the faith to liquidate certain assets and give it to the work""I'll say it again, we are talking about liquidating existing assets...it all belongs to God and the brethren""We have a lot of plans so big going on in this office it would cause just this room to to rock and gyrate if you knew what was going on. We just need a lot of money and we need it post haste...I would give more if I had it""Herbert Armstrong wrote an article...'Prepare to greatly reduce your standard of living'...What he wrote by far, is more for us now than it was then... its all going to be taken away from us anyway brethren""There will be follow-up sermons. Time to bring in related points""Let us know how much you plan to send and when you plan to send it...You must be willing to communicate... If you do need to counsel, please do that...If you are not ready to distribute what you have...you don't believe the flow of prophecy"
(Comment: It's NEVER the LAST BLAST with Dave. Just the next one.)
"This is announcing the last blast, the clarion call as it were, to finish the work...Whether it is 4,5,7, 9 years to go, God knows...This is liquidating assets...I have the authority to tell you to do it... I have the moral and spiritual, and ecclesiastical authority to tell you to do what I have also done""Get it now when it requires faith... when you are dead you don't need it... if you named us in your wills, it can take us months or years to get it""The wives in the faith will say give everything you can...We don't have the luxury of waiting years...today, leaving everything in your will simply doesn't work"
(Comment: A Personal favorite and one I'm sure would make his lenders nervous. He may need lenders that go by the rules and they may just be his naïve church members and ministers.)
"Now you just have a second mortgage... and frankly we flee before most of it ever becomes due""...some may think that they want to tap their 401k--maybe you want to let us know that... why would you want to tell us? We are starting to prepare a budget now, the needs are now...it would be nice to know now""Think big...Pull big triggers""There is only two positions you can take regarding all that I have mentioned, only two, there is no middle ground. You're either going to yield, to submit and to follow, the clarion call that the time is now or you're not. And postponing a decision is deciding not to do it...It's saying I'm going to wait until it gets closer because it is not there yet...Don't say that I'm going to wait until it gets closer, when I can see...The decision is that my treasure stays on earth or I goes to heaven. Period. I will not lay up for times to come or I will. And this is the real test of Laodicea... either hold on to your assets... or give it... God is in this decision, no question. Testing the church's faith""We live in the most materialistic age in the history of the world. People trust in physical things. They trust in bank accounts...If you have excess and don't need it, those verses mean you...That's the Laodicean attitude...Put your money where your mouth is...Empty your assets""There is only one place He works...Where the...work is...that's where God is working...one elder commented here at headquarters, if people can't be motivated by a clarion call to finish the work such as this, why will those same people somehow believe the internal signal given to the church of the 1335? Why would they believe it?""This is the Laodicean age...Be careful that you don't tell us how to spend your assets... It belongs to God.. You don't tell God or His servants how to spend it""Your faith is being tested. Think about that""We will all fast on November 17th...I have to...ask you for a very special financial sacrifice for God's work""The purposes of the fast...(a). To fast for God's intervention...(b).Fast for personal faith and courage to follow what I am asking you to do...(c). Fast for personal strength...(d)...Fast for faith and courage in others with more than you to give...Go get a big chunk out of your house...their assets, IRAs, and pension funds...(e). Ask God to move specific properties...that they have told us they want to sell. Pray that these properties move...that is part of what this fast is about"David C Pack-The Clarion Call-November 3, 2007
34 comments:
It is so sad that some people's search for the one true leader of God's one true church leads to nothing but LIARS and THIEVES.
Dave scribbles:
"I do not covet your silver or gold...the gold and silver is God's and He will get it someway"
His god is like the IRS huh? Time to put god and dave on trial for abuse and neglect. Their god is not like a real parent who loves and nurtures a child, steering him on the path of success.
Religion is a Recession-Proof business, all the televangelists are doing great this year!
"We are not a splinter"
We used to be a splinter, now we're a sliver...
Fasting
(f) When you're fasting, send in the money you would have spent on food if you weren't fasting... Consider being like Christ and fast for 40 days!
Did Dave include something I read in a HWA member letter, to borrow money from the bank under false pretenses? He said to tell the bank you wanted to borrow money for some (false) reason, like to go on a vacation.
10:42 a.m. I would be interested in seeing that particular HWA member letter if you could track it down and share a link. It takes manipulation to a whole new level if members were actually told to take out loans under false pretenses to give to the church.
Extortion and fraud, take your half of your assets by whatever means necessary and make sure you don't tell anyone especially the spouse. It's ok to lie to the spouse when they do find out because after all the church is never wrong. What these members don't seem to get is if he is telling them to do these things, he is doing the same thing to them and the bill of goods is nonexistent. They get nothing out of it at the end.
For a man that self proclaimed that no one else understands the context, intensity, speed and timing of prophecy, I say pay the man ........exactly what he is worth.
2007 is a long time ago and since that time there was a second clarion call and then a permanent clarion call.
We have a lot of plans so big going on in this office it would cause just this room to to rock and gyrate if you knew what was going on
We waited and found out exactly what was going on in that office. "Brethren you won't have to pay a dime for it all, banks are going to pay for it and we won't have to pay them back because we will be gone to the place of safety" is what you told us. Reality was something far different.
There is only two positions you can take regarding all that I have mentioned, only two, there is no middle ground. You're either going to yield, to submit and to follow, the clarion call that the time is now or you're not.
Many took and still take the third position; THEY LEFT.
...one elder commented here at headquarters, if people can't be motivated by a clarion call to finish the work such as this, why will those same people somehow believe the internal signal given to the church of the 1335? Why would they believe it?"
That internal signal has been wrong about everything so far. No three splinter leaders dying by fire, no brethren reunited, no gospel as a witness to the world, no man of sin and no Son of Man. These have all been prophesied to happen more than once from 2013 unto 2020.
This is the Laodicean age...Be careful that you don't tell us how to spend your assets... It belongs to God.. You don't tell God or His servants how to spend it"
We didn't think God was going to actually spend it unless you are telling us you are God.
"tell the bank you want to borrow money .. to go on a vacation" To Petra
Religion is not only recession proof, but (so I heard) Goldman Sachs has made 1/2 a trillion off of the down-turn. This is due to betting against the market (hedge funds). They are tied in with religious people.
In the OT it was okay to be rich. Look at Abraham, Solomon, and David. Christianity is against making a lot of money. It is very hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom. What a flip-flop. The Jews who wrote the NT and brainwashed the Romans with Christianity wanted to destroy Rome. That's why they copied ideas from weak passive Jewish fringe sects and packaged it with the story of the preacher from Galilee and gentile paganism and mystery religions and invented a new religion what would destroy their Roman overlords. It worked. Rome fell just 150 years after Christianity became the state religion.
"We are not a splinter"
He's right. RCG is not a splinter. It's the pustule that an infected splinter creates.
It is shocking that so many of the WCG splinter groups have turned out to be nothing but evil continually.
Just read an amusing statement from Michael Crichton from a speech he gave and published as an intro in his book "State of Fear".
"One of the defining features of religion is that your beliefs are not troubled by facts, because they have nothing to do with facts."
(He is applying this to all religions - religion, environmentalism, etc.)
We humans are bad at predicting the future. The real danger to us is believing someone else can.
The mother church WWCG set up its members for charlatans like Dave. Herbs church only fed members spiritual milk via Kenneth Copeland type sermons.
Dave is cashing in the chips of keeping members dumbed down.
Re: HWA member letter
It was a while back, and I'm not sure where I saw the letter. If it wasn't at the Painful Truth it was at an HWA archive site. I had a look around and you might try finding the right letter here.
I'd search it myself, but it's a bit late... zzzzz...
This could be the HWA letter you were thinking of; one of many like it, anyway. March 30, 1970
https://www.hwalibrary.com/cgi-bin/get/hwa.cgi?action=getcoworker&InfoID=1348929863&SearchWhat=KeyWord&SearchFor=Bank%20loan&NoShow=&page=&return=search
"You don't tell God or his servants how to spend it."
So no one is to ask why a fortune is being spent on Dave's Michael Jacksonesque compound. No one is to ask how the barn, horses and giant garden is related to the work. Does Dave plan to ride a horse throughout the surrounding area pronouncing the gospel to passer-bys? Will be dress up like the Lone Ranger and gallop around his compound maybe?
one of many like it
Notice in that letter, HWA says do not mortgage... unlike Dave's demand. And there was the infamous Loma dying letter.
The letter I was writing about was from the 1940s.
9:54pm That letter says specifically "don't mortgage anything".
https://www.hwalibrary.com/cgi-bin/get/hwa.cgiaction=getcoworkerinfoid=1348929863byyear=page=15return=coworkers
km
Did Dave include something I read in a HWA member letter, to borrow money from the bank under false pretenses? He said to tell the bank you wanted to borrow money for some (false) reason, like to go on a vacation.
From March 30, 1970 Coworker letter.
Most bankers will ask why you want it. There could be many needs at this season — income tax payments coming up — you are short of funds temporarily — or just tell him you want to make a special donation to your Church. For those who can and will do this, borrow merely on your signature — don't mortgage anything —
Nothing in there about a false reason. Just examples of possible monetary needs at that "season".
I'm not defending the pervert HWA, I just believe in accuracy!
"The first is, that I am calling for a full day of FASTING AND PRAYER FOR THIS WORK FOR THIS SABBATH, April 4th. That, Brethren, can do more to help this situation than anything else -- IF we really take this seriously to heart, and PUT OUR HEARTS INTO OUR PRAYERS in real earnest, and in FAITH BELIEVING!
The second I ask of all who can and are willing. This was suggested this afternoon by Mr. Stanley Rader, our legal counsel and financial adviser. It is that those in position to do so, if willing to do your part for God's Work in this immediate crisis, go to your local bank and borrow whatever you are able -- from $100 to $1,000. Some will be able to borrow no more than $100. Many will not be able to borrow that. If not, please don't think you need to write in explaining why -- we here at Headquarters UNDER- STAND many are unable -- and we do not expect those unable to do it. But that is all the more reason why those of us who ARE ABLE will, I hope, be willing to borrow whatever you can -- some can borrow $200, some $500, some $1,000.
Most bankers will ask why you want it. There could be many needs at this season -- income tax payments coming up -- you are short of funds temporarily -- or just tell him you want to make a special donation to your Church. For those who can and will do this, borrow merely on your signature -- don't mortgage anything -- whatever you are able, to be paid back monthly. And you should not obligate yourself to monthly payments except what you will be able to pay OVER AND ABOVE tithes and offerings for the Work -- so that it does not lower the income for the Work through the rest of the year. IF you can pay only $5 to $8 per month to the bank repaying the loan, you should be able to borrow around $100. If you can pay $10 or $15 per month in repayments, then you could borrow $200, etc.
Mr. Rader, Mr. Portune and I were discussing this crisis at lunch, and Mr. Rader said he would go to his bank and borrow $5,000 to start this plan going. I felt I was the one to set the example, so immediately this afternoon I beat him to it."
4:16
I agree.
There is nothing shady being asked in terms of 1970 general accounting principles, before world om, enron and the later wcg church employed Arthur Andersen.
Accounting is just where to put things as long as the sum total is zero.
Nck
4:16,
I think there is at least an insinuation of a false reason. The whole issue is about borrowing money to give to WCG. Two possible reasons for borrowing money are suggested and then there is the "OR just" tell the truth...to make a special donation to your Church (capitalized). When going to borrow money for the WCG what need is there of the "OR just". The "OR' suggests a reason different from the honest truth. Word games and plausible deniability were a hallmark of the WCG.
Obviously there are some here who need to learn the difference between a secured loan vs. an unsecured loan. When the pervert asked for a signature loan he was asking for an unsecured loan. You're not going to get one unless you have a great credit score and honestly the bank doesn't care what you use it for.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/110614/what-difference-between-secured-and-unsecured-debts.asp
As I said in my 4:16am comment, I'm not defending the pervert.
km
You don't tell God or his servants how to spend it."
So no one is to ask why a fortune is being spent on Dave's Michael Jacksonesque compound. No one is to ask how the barn, horses and giant garden is related to the work. Does Dave plan to ride a horse throughout the surrounding area pronouncing the gospel to passer-bys? Will be dress up like the Lone Ranger and gallop around his compound maybe?
On page 22 of Mr. Pack's "Common" booklet he said this: "tragically, worldly preachers (actually, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into ..... ministers of righteousness" - II Cor. 11:13-15) have become wealthy on the backs of their followers -- all while offering empty platitudes and falsehoods in return. The Church of the Living God is different!
BE CAREFUL NOT TO ACCUSE GOD'S CHURCH OF SEEKING TO ENRICH ITSELF AT YOUR EXPENSE - JESUS CHRIST SURELY TAKES SUCH ACCUSATIONS PERSONALLY.
Dave Pack in his own words!
When I look back at my father's past receipts from WCG it sickens me. Growing up we had nearly nothing, though my father earned decent union wages from the Bricklayers union, between the church and building a house paycheck to paycheck my mother had to scrape to get by. He'd give today's equivalent of $15k to $20k every year to the pervert.
km
Anonymous said...
Did Dave include something I read in a HWA member letter, to borrow money from the bank under false pretenses? He said to tell the bank you wanted to borrow money for some (false) reason, like to go on a vacation.
From March 30, 1970 Coworker letter.
Most bankers will ask why you want it. There could be many needs at this season — income tax payments coming up — you are short of funds temporarily — or just tell him you want to make a special donation to your Church. For those who can and will do this, borrow merely on your signature — don't mortgage anything —
Nothing in there about a false reason. Just examples of possible monetary needs at that "season".
I'm not defending the pervert HWA, I just believe in accuracy!
Dave Pack on who or what you should tell regarding "Common": (page 26) "First, never tell family outside the Church about a command they have NO CHANCE to understand! Since we established that giving all is not possible without God, you should not expect those OUTSIDE God's Church to believe it is possible, or even a good idea. (This would also apply to a financial advisor, who would view any notion of "treasures in heaven" or being "rich toward God" as foolishness.) Remember: family and friends can't give eternal life. They cannot place a crown on your head or put you on a throne ruling cities. Do not permit their opposition to jeopardize your eternal life and reward!"
Dave Pack's own words regarding who you should tell while extracting your assets to give to him.
"Mr. Rader said he would go to his bank and borrow $5,000 to start this plan going"
Ha! Like that multi-millionaire would have to borrow money.
SING ALONG WITH DAVE:
"Bring Common, Ye Faithful"
Bring Common, ye faithful
Joyless and redundant
O come ye, O come ye
To Wadsworth, Ohio
Come and behold Dave
As he spends your money
O come let us tithe to him
O come let us tithe to him
O come let us tithe to him
Dave Pack, our lord.
Did Dave include something I read in a HWA member letter
That was my question, and of course, being a geezer who couldn't get out to get my bottle of Prevagen, could have been confused. But I was glad to see so many others search through the old literature. Yes, there were a lot of requests for money, even when there was no genuine urgency except HWA's greed (one Ambassador Report story was about an urgent financial need at the same time HWA was in London, shopping at Harrods).
I remember an urgent request letter where HWA said he'd start the ball rolling by donating $100 that he and Loma had been saving "for a rainy day". HWA milked Richard's accident and death for what he could get. And of course the "dying Loma" letter - which Dave quoted in his "Clarion Call" sermon (Dave: "I wish I could write like that!")
And, in end, for HWA look what happened. One day, people will walk along Ambassador Drive Wadsworth and wonder what used to be there...
In reality 5000 dollars by Rader would have been enough as an example.
In reality the church needed IMMEDIATE cash short term. For the long term loans banks needed to see 2 things. A) the ability by the officers of the corporation to raise short term cash and B) long term commitment to repay medium term loans. The church's assets would provide security for the long term loan.
So short term cash flow shortage would have been around 2.5 million dollars if HWA only requests 100 dollars per family or head of household and a high profile millionaire settles for 5000.
This fundraising would be leveraged by the bank long term being reassured by the patrons of the corporation.
It's a matter of trust and leverage. And HWA secured the cashflow to leverage the attorneys smooth talking.
Welcome to business as usual in start up economics. WCG was a perpetual start up. HWA wax the original "millennial" and the quintessential hipster businessleader without a beard.
Nck
"David In The Sky With Diamonds"
I am reminded of that opening line:
"Picture yourself in a seat at restored
With David C Pack as your master and lord"
Receipts? They never got receipts in the early years of WCG.
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