For anyone interested:
This is sure to irritate Gerald Weston and some of the boys in Charlotte.
Sheldon Monson will connect to a YouTube livestream COG Event scheduled for tomorrow, August 15th at 2:00pm EDT (Eastern Daylight Time). August 15 2020 Sabbath Services 2:00pm EDT
You can find the live stream event at the COG Broadcast Youtube page.
If someone wants to share what he said please feel free to do it here. I will be out of town all day tomorrow and in an area with limited to zero cell service.
UPDATE:
Sheldon Monson will connect again to YouTube for another Event scheduled for tomorrow, August 22nd at 2:00pm EDT (Eastern Daylight Time). August 22 2020 Sabbath Services 2:00pm EDT.
You can find the live stream event at the same place, COG Broadcast on YouTube.
I believe this time around there's a greater possibility he will discuss his current situation involving LCG. The upcoming sermon from Sheldon is entitled, I believe, "Its better to obey God rather than men."
96 comments:
Thank you for this. I am an LCG member who has been reading here for the last few months. We know Weston lied to us. I look forward to hearing the truth from Sheldon.
My kids adored him. Which may be part of the problem.
Weston cannot stand the spotlight being off of him and for a subordinate to be liked so well was a huge irritation to Weston and others at headquarters.
This is the biggest scandal since Tkach's $ecret $ix-figure $alary was 'Outed'!
I think Monson missed his calling! Based on the photo here, he should have been either in the "World Wrestling Federation" or the "NFL"!
Why is LCG fasting today?
I want to hear Sheldon's "take" on what this is about.
Good! As a LCG member who is on the fence I've wanted to hear Monson's side of the story. I've personally witnessed other LCG ministers being push out in the past and the amount of lying to the people to cover their asses has always been a sight to see. They can preach unity and Godlyness but when the heat is turned up, their human nature always wins out. So much for trying to overcome the ways of Satan.
Sheldon was happy to wield the corporate power of his ACOG to keep others under his control. Unfortunately, when that same corporate power was used to keep Sheldon under control, he rebelled. That makes him a hypocrite, just like his master Rod Meredith. Now, Sheldon wants to have it both ways. He still wants people to obey LCG's command that "Sheldon is a minister" but he doesn't believe they need to obey LCG's command that "Sheldon is no longer a minister."
Sorry, Sheldon, but if LCG had the authority to put you into the ministry, it has the authority to remove you. Go get a real job and don't be so arrogant as to think you can run your own Sabbath services just because Weston is a jerk who mistreated you.
Prov 18:17
I will have to agree with this, even though I disagree with LCG and left them to go where there is love and good shepherding. What good will it do to start another group? This is hypocrisy based on what Sheldon believes as God's "government structure". Why is Sheldon independently starting a group or at least his own Service? Wake up to those who are following Sheldon, another group is NOT the answer. He still believes the wrong things, and is just rebelling against the very wrong that started it.
I will listen to this, we need to listen to both sides like it says on the scripture. I love Mr. Monson, I was really disturbed when he was kicked out.
LCG has authority? It only has authority as any other corporation to hire and fire employees (depending on labor law). Nothing more.
Have we forgotten how it started?
How many times its founder rebelled?
7.00 AM
I don't agree that it's that simple. People also experience this in the workplace where they have invested in a company without being fully financially reimbursed, plus they have built relationships amounting to a de facto family. To have this taken away for no good reason is technically legal but not moral. Many members have experienced this when put out of their church for flippant reasons.
In today's world, it's risky investing in human relationships.
What I don't understand is why any of us on here give a flying flip what these idiotic deceivers in the "different" varieties of Armstrong "churches" do? The "ministers" want to be in charge of the money and people's lives, and if they can't be, they start their own Herbie "church" and drag others along with them to follow them. It's been happening ever since Herbie died in 1986.
Tonto, what wound his wrestling name be? LOL š
I was very disturbed that he was kicked out as well and you're right we should hear both sides of the story. Couldn't agree more.
Is there such a thing as God's government on the earth right now?
If Sheldon wants to use YT as a vehicle to preach, there's nothing wrong with that. If he's starting another splinter group, there's nothing wrong with that either. There are already hundreds of splinter groups for another one to matter.
What is wrong is IF he asks tithes to be sent his way. I can understand if he asks for donations ($1, $2, $5, $10) as other YT channels, religious or otherwise, do. But he should not be playing mind games and appeal to his followers' conscience by using tithing verses. Aside from not being a Levite, there's no Temple to warrant the collection of tithes.
Sheldon is using the LCG Bible Hymnal for his song service. Wow! Put plainly, by doing this Sheldon is confirming LCG's authority, when he could very easily have used an old WCG hymnal or simply chosen songs without referring to their "page number" which reveals his dependence on LCG's hymnal. After this, if he tries to announce formation of a new fellowship it isn't going to go well.
Sheldon bragged about the lack of COVID-19 cases at the summer camp he ran.
I guess we should all go and follow the leaders of the Baptist and Catholic summer camps that also avoided COVID-19 infection.
Sheldon urged his listeners to have faith in God, but Sheldon doesn't have faith that God is inspiring any human leader he can follow... except for Sheldon. It's Bob Thiel all over again, but without the crooked bookcases and effeminate mannerisms. "Have faith" in Sheldon-world means "doing it Sheldon's way."
Weston and Monson are both super-egotists, and they obviously couldn't both get along together in the same church.
Had about 150 on the stream.
I listened to his intro - basically he did due diligence on only having healthy people come to camp. Took temperatures every day. Have faith in God to keep them healthy. And no masks and no social distancing.
Other than the limitations on who could come - a normal summer camp.
He said no one got sick there or when they got home.
He plans to have other speakers in the future. Nothing about funding.
Reached my sermon quota a while back, so disconnected.
After listening to Sheldon describe his foolish insistence on having his no masks, no social distancing, "God promises us none of these diseases" excuses why he insisted on his camp of 250 kids in Texas, I can understand why he got bounced depending on how it went behind the scenes between Gerald Weston and himself. Even the SDA President was nervous about them using their camp and Sheldon insisted he'd fasted and prayed about it and God did not stop him as he asked if he was wrong. The SDA's were concerned about their reputation. His vaccine is Jesus, God, prayer and fasting. Another COG minister who has no understanding of what "and love your neighbor as yourself."
He claims no illness or contagion came from it but we'll see. It, however, is the classic reckless behavior we see in ministry where they can't imagine taking a pause while we see what is actually going on in a pandemic.
Some of the COG ministry has to be bored to death during these times so taking risks at the expense of others and out of fear that if people lose weekly contact with the church they might find out they don't need it to begin with and God did not strike them dead for missing it.
I know of another minister in Grace Communion , who was high on their food chain, who brags on the AC site about his speaking at an underground church in Vancouver Washington where over 200 meet against the rules and guidelines asked of the public by the State of Washington at this time. Arrogant and reckless kinda guy full of conspiracy theories and self centered patriot drivel.
He is now giving the rest of the sermon justifying his behaviors with the classic OT "promises" for protection. And of course, Satan and his demons are very busy trying to get them to fall away from the truth.
This service, the songs, the comments and the content is no more advanced than it was 50 years ago. I don't mean that as a compliment as to his being the same yesterday, today and forever as if that was a good thing.
His sermon is "If you want to walk on water, here's how." and "Faith" which by now we should know is believing what one hopes is true based no actual evidence that it is true. "
"
Since I trust DD"s reading.
It becomes clearer and clearer that the fool Sheldon should be fired from ANY organisation.
I have no words to describe filth like Sheldon. And I dont even know what LCG is. I mean a reckless fool should be dealt with swiftly. I will not engage in any discussion on this topic. I have stated multiple times here how covid destroyed some of my friends, killed cog nembers in other splinters I will not name and so far in the UK caused mass murder among the elderly in "care homes" through fools in their government.
Nck
Dennis, isn't it interesting how ACOG leaders can always interpret events to fit their own narrative? Sheldon says "God protected my camp from COVID-19, which means He is backing me as a man of faith!" But Sheldon admits that Satan is working hard to deceive other people. Sheldon, when he was an LCG leader, blamed Satan for every previous defection from LCG. Now, for the first time, according to Sheldon, God has inspired a defection from LCG. Sheldon doesn't consider the possibility that Satan protected the campers from COVID-19 in order that Sheldon would get puffed up with pride and would cause a church split.
Of course, nether God nor Satan were behind Sheldon's arrogance or Weston's fear of Sheldon. But it is instructive to see how Sheldon can so selectively interpret events to his own advantage.
Heresy alert: Sheldon in his sermon dropped the old WCG line, "We don't keep the Law because we have to; we keep it because we WANT to!"
However you interpret that line, it's heresy. It puts our human will above God's perfect, pure, and holy will and law. Joe Tkach used that line to reconcile law-keeping with his mainstream evangelical tendencies. Others use the same line to proclaim themselves as super-righteous people whose human will has become good enough that they no longer must rely on God's help to keep His law.
Sheldon in his sermon wants to portray himself as Philadelphian, because he is full of righteousness and faith. He doesn't see that by doing this he shows himself as Laodicean ("I'm rich and increased with my faith and righteousness"). If today's sermon is a good measure, he's going to go off the rails before too long, just like all the others.
And there it is! Sheldon said he believes that because COVID-19 is overblown as a threat, the church doesn't need to abide by Romans 13 and obey secular government. Poor Sheldon has been spoiled by the freedoms he's had in the United States. He doesn't realize that, for most of the history of Christianity, Christians have had to abide by some very heavy handed and freedom-restricting laws, and that Jesus Christ told His followers to obey those laws.
Of course, there's a double-standard in effect. Sheldon takes the lack of COVID-19 at his camp as proof that God is backing him. However, if any of Sheldon's emboldened followers do catch the coronavirus, he will either criticize them for lack of faith or praise them as martyrs, rather than reconsider the matter of God specially blessing his little rebellion.
Monson finished his sermon not realizing the ironic fallacy of his statement.
"Next week, we'll talk about how you ought to follow God rather than man."
Monson doesn't notice that it is a man telling us to do this. Human society is a complex network of interrelationships. Husbands and wives, parents and children, employers and employees, friends, lovers, business partners, salesmen, consumers, etc. Obviously, we can and should at times follow men (and women, but Monson won't go there) if they are not leading us away from God.
Monson justifies his rebellion by believing that he is following God better than Weston is, and he may be right about that.
Unfortunately, by doing his own thing, Monson is telling us that he doesn't find anyone else worth following. That's awfully arrogant of him. He's following God, but he doesn't want us to do the same. He he wants us to follow him following God. Of course, if everyone did as Monson is doing, there would be chaos. Everyone would be live-streaming, and no one would be live-listening.
Obviously, there is a proper time and way to follow other human beings. And if Monson went and found some church leader he could follow, he wouldn't be holding his own Sabbath services. But you aren't supposed to do what Monson is doing. You are supposed to follow him, not to go and have your own Sabbath services because you find some area in which you are more righteous than Monson.
Poor Monson is blinded by his ego. I'm worried for him.
Thanks for your support NCK. I spent a short time on the Ambassador College Pasadena Alumni site but the Sheldon types dominate it and I gave it up. I don't engage in the Covid conspiracy, patriot, Constitution says, stuff with people. It is a useless endeavor and a function of personality in the end I think.
I have found the meme "I don't know...therefore Aliens!" to not only be funny as hell but funny because I know so many COG types who think that way. Lots of that on the AC site and it would be funny if bringing up another point of view did not cause a near riot.
When we don't know or can't know something we have a few choices. Do one's homework, ignore it or make shit up to fill in the blank spots even if it is not true. The need to have "answers" is more important and certainly more comfortable than blank spots in some people's understanding. I prefer the blank spots be left alone until we can fill them with facts and not faith in some crackpot and reckless perspective.
I'm with Gerald on this and feel he felt responsible enough to protect both the members and the church literally and from a bad experiences with reputation.
Did anyone hear the member coughing in the background of Monson’s live stream?
PS Having more medical inclinations than faith based ones and having been a EMT-Intermediate, just short of Paramedic for a hobby back when, I'm of the "treat for the worst and hope for the best" school of care. Erring on the side of caution not "let's see what happens" Not taking something seriously and hoping it isn't actually serious too late doesn't work well.
The Ambulance company that I worked with, MedShore, has 27 full time paramedics. As of last week 15 of them are out of their job due to being infected in the course of their work. I also have my son's step daughter in the family who, at 22, suffered through Covid in Seattle and got through. She got it from her co-workers in the Assisted Living field.
If by failing to follow the government rules on corona virus protection, a infection and death occurs, the church could be sued by family members of the deceased. This is reason enough against these camps. And not forgetting the bad publicity.
Just witnessed the birth of a new COGlet!
Very historic to see the process in real-time!
This is how easy it is to become a millionaire in America - recession or no recession!
In true ACOG tradition, it's customary for those in the new division to "bring their Hymnals with them" (this is already factored into the operating budgets of ACOGs)
Existing ACOGS lose more hymnals that way!
1:04
That was not a member.
It was Satan himself filled with emotions to see another one doing his work so he could have a break one day and spent sabbath with his new friends.
Nck
DD
I have no reason to believe you are hearing impaired or unable to report the contents of a speech.
I have no beef with religionists, only if they make claims without having checked basic facts in a ic unit running over time or spoken to people needing months of recovery, if that is at all possible with, lung, brain or kidney damage.
Nck
It is alarming, but unfortunately not surprising, how many still think this is overblown or just a hoax.
I think the problem is, we have been lied to by so many people, from all sides that most people cannot tell the difference between facts and opinions.
Plus we have a national lack of patience.
To the LCGers commenting in judgement of Sheldon boy forcing congregants yo wear masks:
Do you not see the hypocrisy of Weston holding Charlotte Sabbath services in South Carolina because their restrictions are less strict?
So basically, you can skirt Covid rules when it suits you.
So typical of Armstrongism.
Ha ha! This is quite true.
"None of these diseases" wasn't this a promise given to the Israelites? How can he claim a promise given to another group for his own group? Insubordination seems like the reason he was canned.
I don't know Sheldon Monson, if he's a good guy or wrong-un, but I've watched his broadcast and he came across better than I expected. He is older than billed but kinda the right age to set up a Church.
This maskgate controversy is probably an excuse for both sides.
LCG to be rid of any upstarts and Monson to make a bid for leadership.
Covid 19 has shaken and stirred a lot these past few months. No more so than the Church.
I hope for the LCG youth who like him that he's converted, clean living and decent.
God knows the has been too many wrong-uns in the Church of God over the years.
I am so disillusioned!
Weston was right; he did the right thing in firing Monson.
I can admit it when Weston is right because even a stopped clock is right twice per day.
However, Weston's ego is partly to blame for Monson starting his own splinter.
It's just the way the COGs work.
nck said...
DD
I have no reason to believe you are hearing impaired or unable to report the contents of a speech.
I was referring to the fact that we agreed on taking care during a pandemic and not the reckless behaviors of those for whatever reasons. I missed your condescension. Should have known better.
Do you not see the hypocrisy of Weston holding Charlotte Sabbath services in South Carolina because their restrictions are less strict?
That may not be all that's going on. The current North Carolina restrictions are not much different from what's in place in South Carolina. South Carolina is more restrictive in some ways, less restrictive in others.
However, there's an insane amount of politics over attendance at the Statesville and Kannapolis congregations near Charlotte, which were formerly under Gary Ehman. Some people assigned there couldn't stand Ehman and would come to Charlotte as much as possible, and a few who can't stand the HQ congregation pastors would attend either Statesville or Kannapolis instead. Moving the Charlotte congregation to the southern fringe of the Charlotte metropolitan area is one way to discourage Statesville/Kannapolis people from leaving their assigned congregations.
For a brief while Scott Winnail had been assigned to replace Ehman in Statesville and Kannapolis, and I'm sure he wanted to take every possible measure to keep his new congregations from fleeing. Now that John Strain will be pastor of all three Charlotte area congregations (Winnail has been assigned to DC to replace Sheldon Munson), there may be less incentive to keep the Charlotte congregation so far away from the other two congregations. We'll just have to wait and see.
I am grateful this was posted. I have now found a live stream to watch every Sabbath. This was indeed very uplifting and encouraging to listen to. As it is written that “all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose” (Romans 8:28). Indeed.
Have a good week.
—Ex670.
Are you unaware that the Spirit of God provides that WILL to keep His way? Which certainly includes keeping His law in the Spirit? So yes, “we keep it because we WANT to.” I wonder how you can go through all of Psalm 119 and not think that David WANTED to keep the law.
“Poor Monson is blinded by his ego.”
You realize that is just an OPINION right?
I’ve been away for awhile. What happened to Biker Bob?
Excellent sermon by Monson. We have to live by faith. God does protect those who step out in faith. You can criticize him all you like, but he did the right thing. God will bless him as long as he continues to live by faith. After listening to Westons side of the story and now Monson, it is clear Monson did the right thing. We can’t live in fear. God will protect those who trust in him. Some of the commenters on here evidently despise all cogs. We should careful not slander people whom God has called. No mention of a new splinter group, just going to have services each sabbath. You can bet Monson is praying and fasting on what his next steps are. May God protect and bless him.
Hi DD.
I was protecting you from possible accusations that you and I might in some way be associated in attacking a church.
So I:
-confirmed your reliability in providing factual information
-confirmed through examples that the conclusions based upon that information were mine alone
I wouldnt want to burden you with association with nck.
My main point is that I am willing to discuss opnions that covid is brought upon us by soros and gates (from hell) in cooperation with the Martians from Liechtenstein for marxist control......
IF ONLY THOSE IDIOTS LIKE SHELDON would have informed themselves on the basics of what it can do to people and not stick to their statistic niche bubble and declare it truth for the entire world.
I mean who are you kidding Sheldon, the Australian government, France, tens of thousands Italian dead people, my friends trying (WHO ARE MEDICAL DOCTORS) trying to breathe 6 months due after a ski trip.
Dennis, my response was full force against Sheldon, but I protected you from associating my conclusions with yours. Not because you but because of me.
How condescending is that my friend. Thanks for the free flow of life saving information.
Nck
6.34 PM
Romans 8.28 is a mistranslation in the King James transaction. It is simply not true that things work together for good to Christians. It fly's in the face of basic reality that sin is that which is harmful. God does not sit on His thrown all day performing miracles to cover up the natural consequences of sin. I know many will reject this because it's comforting to think that ones sins therefore don't matter.
A better translation would be something like "God is with us in all our trials."
6.47 PM
The expression "we keep it because we WANT to" saturates Protestant writings. It's not a WWCG teaching. I don't recall ever reading it in Herbs literature going back to the 1960s.
Such DUMB logic. (A) "God promises to protect you from illness..." BUT... (B)"If you get sick, he's got you covered, you'll be healed!!!" If (A) fails, thus you are in need of (B), then (A) is not true, god doesn't protect you from harm. Furthermore, if god is going to do (B) then what's the point of (A)?
Talk about twisting logic to make god able to do everything and nothing, to be the worst and the best, god can't lose! How convenient for those who profit off of these lies and inconsistencies.
News flash to the gullible followers...None of the Emperors are actually wearing any clothes!
In listening to Monson's message, I frankly find that I have as much of an issue with his reasoning as I did with Smith's from last week.
Where Smith seemed to be equating faith with trusting in human leaders, support and obedience even when they are wrong, Monson seemed to be equating faith with no mask wearing and a disregard for most current health guidelines or precautions due to covid. One wonders if someone were to come into his congregation who preferred to take more precautions, wear a mask or sit a polite distance from others during services, would they be welcome or would they receive a lecture on their lack of faith? This seems to me similar to the idea that going to a doctor, receiving a blood transfusion, or having surgery somehow displays a lack of faith.
There seems on both sides to be a lack of exploration on how to reach any sort of happy medium here. I have seen some congregations meet outdoors and households sit together, but a few feet from others. Other congregations wear masks during the music worship and sing with their masks on. If the mask is effective, talking or even singing shouldn't be that much of a problem, and to my knowledge such a compromise would not violate restrictions in most areas of the U.S. For hotspot areas that might be limiting larger gatherings people could meet in smaller groups in homes and watch a stream, which is What most people who choose to follow Monson will find themselves now doing anyway. People commonly met in homes during New Testament times and there is nothing to suggest that God did not find this perfectly acceptable.
This also calls into question how many people have to come together in order to be considered "assembled"? A reading of Matthew 18:20 would suggest as few as two or three. I have seen more than one person post on social media their condemnation of people who choose to stay home and not "assemble" due to covid precautions when I know full well these same people choose to stay home themselves and listen to a stream from a cog group that doesn't happen to have a local congregation instead of "assembling" with a group who does. Pot, meet kettle...
Regardless of which side of the issue one falls on, I fail to see how mask wearing could be equated with a lack of faith or idol worship. If I wear a mask into a grocery store in order to comply with a local ordinance or that particular business's rule, I am not placing my faith in that mask. I just want to buy groceries. My faith still lies firmly with God. I still pray for protection, for healing, etc. The same is true if I have to wear one for a church service.
Concerned Sister
I watched one of Sheldon's YouTube sermons. It's so basic that I found it also painful to watch. It's the same canned material from 40 years ago. There must be a policy of not introducing new material, no new slants or tidbits on old material. After all, if members grow in knowledge and understanding, the ministers power level goes down. No more "daddy, daddy, what do I do?"
What happened to "feed my sheep?" The Dumbo Churches of God. Or is it the Dumb and Dumber Churches of God.
Monson's theology in this sermon is dangerous.
Smith's theology used in his sermonette of August 7 is worse.
God does protect and heal.
However, God does not condone us taking reckless risks or not doing our part in maintaining health.
There are consequences to our actions.
Smith's message was designed to brainwash the members into believing that whatever you hear from the pulpit is God-blessed and should be obeyed.
Following Smith's theology will lead to more physical and spiritual damage.
Well said, couldn't agree more!!
For COG ministers, it is all about power and money. Monson saw his opportunity for increased power an money in the fact that there is a segment of the population that is strongly against mask-wearing. This aligns with the old-time COG strict opposition to trusting in medical procedures. Therefore, Monson could amass a power base and income source from those people who oppose masks.
Smith has always betted that his power and income would best flow from being a loyal attack dog for the LCG top dogs. However, Smith has such a huge ego and is so vicious, it is foreseeable that he will turn on the leaders he now protects.
This turning on the leaders to gain power and money is rooted in COG history and how all GOG splinters have started. Betrayal for power and money is part of the "reap what you sew" destiny of the LCG.
Rod Meredith wanted to backstab the WCG leadership from the moment HWA did not appoint him to be his successor. RCM waited until WCG paid his huge legal debt in the McNair case and then split to pursue power and money in the Global Church of God splinter. When RCM felt he was not getting enough power in Global, he split to form LCG.
Fighting and fracturing is part of the inception and continuing fiber of the LCG - LCG will never be able to escape it.
We can all agree that living by fear is the wrong thing. However, Monson and the rest of you are doing the exact opposite of what this issue started as: being in person for Services, not sitting at home hooking up. So, hypocrisy runs very deep, and so does big egos!
I think the problem the COGs have is faith.
If the acts in the Bible are true and they had miraculous healings, then the lack of healings today show that the COGs lack faith.
If the scriptures are just myths, then faith is like believing Harry Potter stories are real.
Either way, they lose - their faith is worthless.
Having a teen camp until we get effective treatments seems like a really bad idea.
Expecting kids to go to a summer camp and wear masks is idiotic.
The pro teams are playing again - without masks, but with regular screening and without spectators.
The ACOGs, like outside churchianity, teach that God promises to heal. Whether He does or doesn't isn't the point. All that matters is perception, the marketing thingy. If Christians believe that God always heals, that boosts the membership and the power level of the ministers. That's all that matters.
I'm sure marketeer HWA would agree. It's perception, not truth that counts.
Is this an LCG forum?
Sounds like not wearing a face mask is equivalent to tempting God. What was it that Jesus said about that?
It's like jumping off a cliff and daring God to protect you. Arrogance, pure arrogance! Thou shalt not tempt the Lord your God!
No, BUT...since Gerald Weston and LCG leadership as a whole are NOT transparent to the members, this forum has always been a source for them to find out information and share opinions. Both things that LCG does not appreciate. There is space for them to agree or disagree with stuff here, just as I allow those in other groups to do so. I most certainly do not agree with their take on certain doctrines, etc., but that is no reason to ignore them as the church has taught us to do down through the past decades. One can disagree and still be cordial.
Lcg seemingly is making that case. But do they have the authority to do so. I think not.
Not wearing a mask isn't tempting God because the mask order didn't come from God. Tempting God is when God makes a promise to you and you challenge it foolishly. It doesn't compare with jumping off a cliff to see if God will be faithful to bear you up. One is a civil order from men, the other is a promise from God. When the plague hit Israel in the days of Moses (Num 16:46-48) he didn't order masks to be worn. He sent Aaron with a censor to stay the plague, which is what the church ministers should be doing today. Masks don't save you or your neighbour. When a pandemic becomes an epidemic, certainly wearing a mask in afflicted areas is a good choice, but in church? Even the Lord first ordered Moses to evacuate the area that was to be hit. (Num 16:45) So quarantining and separation are good biblical principles to follow. But wearing a mask in church? Why did God create the mouth anyway if it has the potential to spread viruses?
To Concerned Sister above, Aug 15th, 9:24, wearing or not wearing a mask is similar to the issue of eating or not eating meats, as explained by Paul in Rom 14. Just as the abstainer from meats is considered weak in conscience, so is the mask-wearer considered weak because his fear of getting sick is greater than his faith in God to protect him. This seems to be the heart of the issue between Monson and Weston. One man is bold (Monson) while the other is doubtful and calculating (Weston). The only reason you wish to wear a mask in church is because human governments ordered it. And human governments use scientific and worldly wisdom to make their decisions, some of which are good while others are evil. So what am I saying? I am saying that entering the church hall is different from everything else (Heb 12:22-24) Again, I respect that you have faith in God but your works indicate doubts about being hit by a pestilence that you can't see. The only solution then is that you "must needs go out of the world", as Paul wrote (1 Cor 5:10), which isn't practical.
Remember the Milwaukee murders in LCG a few years ago? What might some members have done afterward? Worn bullet-proof vests to church as a safety measure? Would that have been the wise thing to do, regardless of whether it was mandated by the government or not?
When is it when one lives by fear and when is it when one lives by faith? When? And what do you fear (sickness, death, loss, fines, imprisonment, men or God?) and who do you obey (men or God)?
This is the exact thing God hates. No, wearing a mask doesnt mean putting your faith in the mask. It means, you have love for your fellow brother. God said to obey the laws of the land, if those laws do not conflict with His laws. If you think wearing a mask does this, you are absolutely wrong. You my friend are walking on a fine line with God for thinking that you walk above everyone else. This is arrogance and will get you in trouble, not by man, but God. You are to walk in humility, and that you are not.
5.23 PM
"Walking in humility" just about always means being beaten down and allowing thugs to prevail. So I proudly walk in "arrogance," asserting my right to my opinion.
Sheldon Monson doesn't know that wearing a mask, whether it's effective or ineffective against a novel virus, is an act of love. He doesn't know much about love because he is a disciple of Rod Meredith and Herbert Armstrong. I was just listening to someone sing the Protestant children's song ... "Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so". These GOG leaders don't know, or care to know, what Protestant children know. These COG leaders don't preach about Jesus' love because they have never felt that love. LCG members should consider looking for a church that is comfortable with Jesus' love and preaches that love. If you are honest with yourself, you are longing for that love.
Not sure why they did. But one could guess as to why.. Is it a coincidence that LCG commanded a fast and Sheldon held his first own personal service outside of LCG Aug 15th? The same date? Is it also a coincidence that Bob Thiel made a new video about faith and published it on August 15th? The same date Sheldon gave a sermon on faith? Maybe it's a stretch but I don't know. My two cents I guess you could say.
Me thinks the boys from Charlotte might be getting ants in there pants as Mr Monson officially of today has over 1,300 views and growing by the hour and also 167 subscribers to his you tube channel; a little bird š¦ told me many things at Headquarters are not Kosher; many things the much maligned Bob Thiel has said we're and are infact true; I'm sure Sheldon Monson will reveal many things the boys at Charlotte have done and are doing; LCGs leadership will finally be reaveled as the back stabbing hypacrits they really are. Stay tuned more to come from the little š¦ birdie!!!
I've known Sheldon and his family for years. He has always been a stalwart guy even before his ordination into the ministry. He was much loved and appreciated by the campers and staff at the summer camps. This can't be said for other ministers involved in the camps. I wish his family well and I know he will stand for truth.
I do not go to LCG or condone them, but can see why they fired him. Especially if he has the same attitude you do. Shameful and definitely anti-God!
When is it faith and when is it arrogance? Wasn't David accused of being arrogant when he decided to take on Goliath? (1 Sam 17:28) Or was that not an act of faith? And what am I putting my faith in if I wear a mask in church? The same governors who order you to wear a mask in church are the same governors who ordered you not to assemble on the Sabbath day, contrary to the commandment of God. You are like many deceived believers and ministers on this site: they don't know what church attendance is for or why they sing. They are waiting for the governments to tell them what to do, not knowing that the kingdom of God is coming to replace them. That is why the church is being ravaged right now.
"Not wearing a mask isn't tempting God because the mask order didn't come from God. Tempting God is when God makes a promise to you and you challenge it foolishly."
You don't know what you're talking about. Not wearing a mask is most definitely tempting God because you're expecting him to protect you from the virus. That's the very definition of tempting God!
2:30pm so which of the two fired guys are you? Your logic is so flawed it's laughable! Who the hell do you think is scared? I wear a mask because it's the common n sense thing to do. I have an 84 year old father and an immune compromised 74 year old mother. Not wearing a mask is the epitome of selfishness!
6:56pm It's neither humility nor arrogance that you're walking in. You're walking in selfishness, much like the world we live in. It sure doesn't look like you've "come out of her" very far!
Anonymous August 16, 2:30...
I could use the same logic you applied to mask wearing to the wearing of seat belts. I could say that the wearing of seat belts is a civil order from men, so therefore it is not tempting God if you do not wear a seat belt when you are riding in a moving vehicle. I could also liken wearing or not wearing seat belts to eating meat in Romans 14, and state that those who choose to wear seat belts are displaying by their actions their weak faith, because they are putting their trust in a seat belt to protect them in the event of a car accident rather than simply trusting God. I could also say that those who wear seat belts to comply with human governments and avoid fines, etc. are idolizing human governments by putting their fear of prison, injury, fines, etc,above trust in God. And lest you protest, and try to tell me that seat belt wearing has nothing to do with the worship of God, I could remind you that most of us have to travel in cars in order to assemble on the Sabbath, so therefore the wearing or not wearing of a seat belt is a decision we have to make in coming before God in worship. I could make all of these jumps and leaps of logic, but that wouldn't necessarily make this reasoning sound or true, would it?
As far as Hebrews 12:22-24 is concerned, this is speaking more of the direct access to God's throne that each of us as individual Christians has through Christ our Mediator and High Priest. A reading of verse 24 specifically demonstrates this. We join the heavenly assembly of the first born whose names are enrolled in heaven whenever we approach the throne of God in prayer or worship, and this is true at any time we pray to Him, not just when we are "entering the church hall". I am not implying here that physical assembly with other Christians isn't important, but to use this passage to somehow say that coming before God has anything to do with entering a physical building misses the point. Acts 7:48-50, Acts 17:24 The "church" as the term is used in the Bible is talking about the people, congregation, or assembly, those called out by Christ. It doesn't have anything to do with a building or hall, but more to do with the hearts and minds of those who assemble together within that hall, or even come before His presence alone.
I understand the desire of Christians to assemble with each other to worship God, to sing hymns, to pray, to fellowship, and to hear God's word being read. But wearing a mask or face shield does not stop me from doing any of these things. I can sing with a mask on. I know because I've done it.
And while we are on the subject of worshiping God, I could dance with a mask on. Exodus 15:20, Psalm 149:3, 2Samuel 6:14 I could play a harp or tambourine. Again, Psalm 149:3 I could beat a drum or clang cymbals with a mask on. Psalm 150:5, 2Samuel 6:5 I could clap my hands. Psalm 47:1 I could fall down on my face, or I could raise holy hands in prayer. 1Kings 8:22, 1Kings 18:39, Nehemiah 8:6, Matthew 26:39, 1 Timothy 2:8 All of these things were deemed acceptable forms of worship to God in the Bible, and yet many of the COGs in their infinite wisdom, view most of these things as inappropriate activities when we gather together to worship God, because we have decided these things are too emotional, charismatic, Pentecostal, or dare I say Protestant! Consider this though... If Miriam, David, Nehemiah, Jesus, Paul, and Timothy practiced some of these things, would they feel comfortable or be welcomed among us? Or would they be turned away because their way of worshiping God did not mesh with what we think is appropriate?
So perhaps masks really shouldn't be the point of contention some of us have made it. Maybe there are bigger issues we could address first.
Concerned Sister
What an idiot this 2:30.
In the early eighties I've been to wcg holy days in western nations with mandated police officers in front of the building.
All "american organizations" were mandated to report gatherings, for terrorist threats.
So yes I went to pentecost services in a virtual bullet proof vest.
The only problem was that this was about "me", while masks are about "outgoing concern".
Where does "fear stop"?
Genesis pleads with us fools "I place before you life and death", "CHOOSE LIFE"!
Nck
Wearing a mask isn't about my faith since it's protecting others rather than myself. However, not singing, when God commands us to, is about faith. It's about obedience to God. Faith is between God and myself. Church leadership, my spouse, my local congregation, have nothing to do with my faith or my lack of faith.
I commend anyone who stands up to do what is commanded by God. It's going to get harder as we get closer to end time events and Christ's return.
12:09
I say, sing all you want.
God never commanded people to sit or sing in rows close to each other.
Wordship outside or something, like the first protestants, outside of town behind the hedges.
Nck
Few if any congregations own buildings which they meet in, and are required to follow terms of the rentals. This is a factor in the setting of policy around Covid.
12:09am Who's stopping you from singing to God the rest of the week? Or the twenty two Sabbath hours that you aren't with a group? Your excuses are ignorant. LCG was right to fire you. Yeah, I know I'm assuming that you're one of the two fired, and you'll most likely deny it even if you are one of them.
8:39am Whether it was the policy of the establishment or just LCG's policy it doesn't matter. If the two guys were receiving a paycheck from LCG they should have followed the rules. It was only two hours out of the twenty four hour sabbath, there was nothing to stop them from singing to God outside of services if they felt compelled to sing.
Anon 1:37,
While it is absurd for someone to be disfellowshipped over a mask, your point is well made. It is disgusting to me how the COgs somehow believe their 2 hour service when we have our only opportunity to come before the Lord. Facetiously, "Is that the only time the Mediator is working?" "Do they believe that Christ lives in a Christian?"
Their beliefs are simply exasperating. It saddens me.
6:39am I came to that conclusion over 25 years ago. There is no biblical command for the type of service held in the WCG tradition. Which stems from Roman Catholic and Protestant tradition. I haven't been a member of a corporate org. for well over 25 years, yet I still keep the sabbath and feasts. It's nice that you and others are waking up finally, but don't act like the conclusions that you're coming to are anything new.
Also, they weren't disfellowshipped over a mask, it was because they refused to abide by their employer's rules. That's what happens when you're a hireling and you disagree with those paying your salary. It's hilarious how they act like they're standing up for truth/faith when they went along with the LCG errors for years.
"Don't act like the conclusions that you're coming to are anything new." You must be fun at parties. lol
Anyway, I've been recognizing some of the things for over 15 years. So you've beaten me by 10 years. Deprogramming from the dichotomy that either you follow the way the COgs do the law or you are outside the law. Not that i think the law is required for salvation as the law is not based in faith. So, I can avoid my customary work on Saturday and a few other days a year and benefit from a non-burdensome sabbath, particularly if I stay away from the COg warping.
The only thing that after the tragic experience during WCG and more than 4 decades growing in the knowledge and grace of our Savior Jesus Christ, and all these postings here, I see BABYLON's MENTALITY AND the god of this world!! I am extremely sorry to see that all the efforts, from our Loving and Caring God, of all these decades have no good fruits from people He has been working very hard and being so very patient with every single human being! Did you know that, That's why out of about four (4) million of people that left Egypt only 2, Joshua and Caleb, who had a Different Spirit, entered the Promised Land, which is ONLY 0.0005% ? Hopefully we will compare ourselves with our Savior and look at Him as our Leader, and imitate HIM in everything, asking Him to guide us to be in the Church that is practicing all His counsel, so we will qualify to enter The Promise Land!
Glad I took time to watch Sheldon's sermon. We haven't heard a sermon about Faith that was as good as this one for many years! Corporate COGs have been walking the fence about faith and healing since the WWCG changed their stance after Mr. Armstrong died. God didn't move but we have.
1:56pm It must be nice thinking that you're the only one who has faithfully followed God. Should we call you Elijah?
Honestly, you haven't learned to not judge others, so your point is shit!
Please tell me how one qualifies to enter The Promised Land? I searched for the word qualify in the bible and it's nowhere to be found.
You need to get Herbie's unbiblical vocabulary out of your head!
1:56pm I guess only you know where "the Church that is practicing all His counsel" is located. You're a fool!
We are told to listen to authorities if we are not going against the laws of God. For several hours a week, yes, I would wear one to show love and concern to others in church and if one believes it is protective, some are to a point, it is up to the individual to protect themselves too. You don't know what ailments people are dealing with. You don't know their heart but God does. There are many who have believed they were so full of faith that nothing would touch them and they died from whatever they had, some lived. Only God knows. This is a temporary moment of time, it is a piece of cloth that people are so riled up about not a Burka! Can people just stay home and worship if they do or don't want to wear a mask and church bothers them so much. I can just see our current church people judging the men in the old Testament bending down to get a drink of water;should we pick the ones who just have their heads down or the ones who look around. I would bet that the churches would pick the ones who just had their heads down and not looking around for Gideon's army since the ones who had their heads down, well they probably had more faith than to worry about what's around them as God would protect them, while those who looked around were too afraid so they lacked faith?!!!!! Guess which ones God picked, the careful ones! Each circumstance has a reason and the decisions may not be what you think is right. Let's leave it up to God to read the hearts and to judge and stop getting so distracted about wearing a piece of cloth for a few hours, sing your songs the other 24hrs a day every day of the week maskless or with one, God helps those that help themselves. Just do your best and get back to what God wants us to concentrate on and not get so distracted by a temporary suggestion that will be long over with in time.I personally am sick of the subject. I've never seen such a lack of love with people fighting in church and out over a piece of cloth, giving it so much power, politicising it, knocking people over that had one one because they may be a democrat when one woman was merely protecting herself after a liver transplant.I have been more mocked, more aggitated, saw so many social media fights and about 50% were from church members of diff groups.
We are told to listen to authorities if we are not going against the laws of God. For several hours a week, yes, I would wear one to show love and concern to others in church and if one believes it is protective, some are to a point, it is up to the individual to protect themselves too. You don't know what ailments people are dealing with. You don't know their heart but God does. There are many who have believed they were so full of faith that nothing would touch them and they died from whatever they had, some lived. Only God knows. This is a temporary moment of time, it is a piece of cloth that people are so riled up about not a Burka! Can people just stay home and worship if they do or don't want to wear a mask and church bothers them so much. I can just see our current church people judging the men in the old Testament bending down to get a drink of water;should we pick the ones who just have their heads down or the ones who look around. I would bet that the churches would pick the ones who just had their heads down and not looking around for Gideon's army since the ones who had their heads down, well they probably had more faith than to worry about what's around them as God would protect them, while those who looked around were too afraid so they lacked faith?!!!!! Guess which ones God picked, the careful ones! Each circumstance has a reason and the decisions may not be what you think is right. Let's leave it up to God to read the hearts and to judge and stop getting so distracted about wearing a piece of cloth for a few hours, sing your songs the other 24hrs a day every day of the week maskless or with one, God helps those that help themselves. Just do your best and get back to what God wants us to concentrate on and not get so distracted by a temporary suggestion that will be long over with in time.I personally am sick of the subject. I've never seen such a lack of love with people fighting in church and out over a piece of cloth, giving it so much power, politicising it, knocking people over that had one one because they may be a democrat when one woman was merely protecting herself after a liver transplant.I have been more mocked, more aggitated, saw so many social media fights and about 50% were from church members of diff groups.
12:22
I like that a lot.
Gideons army as a story about great man of faith in not bothering to look around.
Is that why really great men of faith or holy men in India are known to not eat at all?
Nck
Wow! One of the people posting comment on the YouTube stream is an LCG Charlotte HQ employee. If he is not already a former employee, will he soon become one? His comment is innocuous enough:
Happy Sabbath from 6 of us in Charlotte (Marshville) NC. We would love to convoke in-person with other members so if you're in our area and would like to get together just let us know!
This is from a man who until recently was giving sermonettes in Charlotte. However, considering Weston's command not to associate with Monson, I assume this is another fireable offense.
Anon 12:09, there is another member of the Charlotte congregation with a name very similar to what you saw. Are you sure you know which is which? I think you probably saw the one who isn't an HQ employee.
Either way, Sheldon is cutting deep into Weston's credibility. People outside LCG probably don't realize that Weston was in charge of GCG/LCG camps for several years, and was as widely disliked as Sheldon is liked. Weston seems to have some unacknowledged jealousy regarding Sheldon.
I have been in the church all my life, 67 years of that life. To say I have seen pretty much all. Oh ya. Mr. Monson, I so admired your work with the kids, your bible studies. The thing here is, if you don't agree with the organisation, just get out. Why the drama? Why the hatred? Just move on. A man of God, will be obedient to God, in any situation. Don't like Weston, move on, But to degrade a man, an organization, is one thing, but a loving individual would not attack the members. Or would he? It does show where your heart really lies. Suck it up, move on, put your rebellion where it is. Be honest with yourself. As with any job, you can be hired and fired. Seeing what I have seen, going thru what I have gone thru growing up in the church, put your big boy panties on and just admit you want to be boss. So be boss. YOU made a decision, just as we all have. But what you are doing is beneath you. I have no animosity towards you. Only sadness, that you truly could not trust in God to do his will, NOT yours.
Sara
What is wrong with everyone? Can't most of you see what is going on here? For the last few months there has not been a strong warning from the leaders of LCG--- Get the warning out loud and clear about this world's sins--- Now is the time to do it-- Everything is coming down around us and the world needs warned now-- all i have seen is a bunch of old programs for the last few months since this virus broke out--- Is our leader afraid to be stronger with a message--- Where is our FAITH? Me Monson is right!! We need more faith NOW!! IF people can't handle whats happening now they will never make it through the things ahead--- Trust God-- Rely on Him and Believe-- Psalms 91 days it ALL!!
Me Monson is right!!
Is this an example of the illeism discussed in another thread here? Why doesn't he just say, "I, Sheldon Monson, am right!" ?
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