UPDATE: Dave Pack and the Restored Church of God is scrambling to hide the things Dave has said at the Feast this year. They served notice on the person who provided the video below and forced them to pull it.
Dave Pack is still up to his same old tricks and is still claiming that his "christ" is returning this year. His dwindling flock of faithful followers sat there on the first night of his so-called "feast" and lapped up this twaddle as they eagerly await Dave's "christ" to be soon walking the hallowed grounds of Wadsworth.
This kind of outrageous lie is not limited to Dave Pack. Gerald Flurry has also whipped his few remaining faithful into another state of frenzy as they have been told to "wait for the call" so that they can flee the incoming invasion by the Germans. Parents are telling their children that they need to be prepared to be taken as slaves by the Europeans. Some have even suggested that they ask to be taken as slaves by Turks as they may be treated better by them.
Sadly this kind of idiocy by Church of God leaders such as Herbert Armstrong, Gerald Flurry, Gerald Waterhouse, Rod Meredith, Bob Thiel, Ron Weinland, and other spiritually immoral men is the pathetic legacy of a belief system that has perverted scriptural truths for decades.
48 comments:
"By the time this message is over, you're going to be out of your mind," he says about 2:00 in.
Propetic?!
Wow!!!
"God is going to destroy all of the splinters this Feast".
"You (members) are not going back to your own homes".
"You are going to see Herbert Armstrong in a few days".
You know these conclusions and the rest of the conclusions in this two hour fourteen minute sermon are in big trouble when he prefaced this (these) fulfillment on Greg Kaidannek, Brian Kaidannek and ( ? ) being the Synagogue of Satan of Rev. 3 and as well the three shepherds that die in one month in the book of Zechariah and conflated this supposed fulfillment of prophecy as the precursor to Jesus Christ returning right now.
Dave Pack is obviously a man who is in the middle of the ocean trying to survive a shipwreck. Every time he goes under water he comes back up believing an all new ship has appeared to save him because drowning isn't an option.
The self importance of this man knows no end. I mean in this sermon alone he refers to himself as the righteous messanger of Habakkuk. He declared himself the Goodman of the house in Luke 12. The one who gives the promise (annoucement message) in Hebrews 10:36. The one who is giving the church meat in due season with Christ giving him that message. References to Malachi the messenger and Elijah giving the preparation message as well as the giver of the 1 John 1:5 message.
It is leave now for the member of the RCG or suffer grave consequences. Dave Pack is cracking under the stress that he created himself. "I can prove it", "I can prove it", "I can prove it", "I can prove it", "I can prove it" five straight times in emphazing a locked in day of future fulfillment is a refrain reserved for those confined in the mental ward.
The time is now for another voice or voices from the ex membership of the RCG to reach out to these people and save them.
Abraham will be resurrected in 2 weeks time? Yippy, yahoo. Here Dave, have all my money. Err, then again, with the end so near, I think I'II keep it anyway.
“Destroy the splinters” Wait.. What? The Great Packster is prophesying that God will destroy the RCG and this cult leader?
Cool! I’m up for that! Where can I get tickets for the show?
I find this ‘sermon’ really disturbing, even more disturbing than all of Pack’s ranting dribble so far. "You are not going back to your own homes".. "You are going to see Herbert Armstrong in a few days"..
What is David Pack working up to? Will he tell his ‘little flock’ to drink the cool aid? Will he order them to go to Wadsworth?
Am I the only one here to think that this maniac is getting scarier by the day? I fear for the well-being of the RCG members.
I skipped through it.
There was something about the prophet lady Gaga or something......mindblowing.
He said something about that he could be seen "ALL OVER EUROPE, Africa and America", I looked up to the sky, but it was raining, so I went inside a little disappointed.
nck
Are these idiots really saying that we are going to see HWA soon? It just goes to show how far the rabbit hole some of these clowns have went. They based everything on the personality cult of HWA because they wanted the power he held instead of the writings & teachings of Christ. A lot of these buffoons are just like henchmen who hung around Hitler & Stalin like Bormann or Molotov. Their actions & lies have gave themselves away. Maybe Fox 25 will do a follow up on Gerald & his rock.
Pack looks ill. His voice never changes, but he looks mentally and physically ill.
Entertaining: Definitely the most gifted speaker of the Acogs. Never boring. Speculation? yes, but all religion is speculation. He has excellent thought organization and short/medium-term memory, and is looking amazing for 72; the health food diet & royal living yielding big dividends.
Don't forget to get popcorn
Some of the acog leaders are opportunist, others are mentally ill.
The sheeple will continue to follow them to the end....
I remember after every FOT someone would tell me that "it's our last feast". In one case, the supporting evidence was an elderly member hallucinating "the last feast" while taking a shower...
The Great Disappointment of 2020. I think the real supernatural event is that the spirit of William Miller has returned.
This is a game. It goes on all the time among splinter groups and it is hard to find it interesting anymore. The Millerite Apocalyptics are themselves losing interest so it is important for their leaders to stir the pot at the FOT. Big excitement, big offerings.
I like to try to predict what the "back door" is. Software developers frequently leave themselves a means of accessing software without going through typical security just in case - its called a "back door." Millerite Apocalyptic leaders do the same thing.
By now I think we recognize that these splinter groups are businesses - they have personnel structures, media presence, sales staff, expenses and revenues. No Apocalyptic Millerite leader worth his salt is going to ignite a prophetic frenzy without figuring out well ahead of time what the "back door" is. The leaders do no want to crash and burn with their concocted prophesies - they want their affluent lifestyles and despotism to continue.
The usual back door is: "Christ was going to return but you people are just too bad. Christ told me that you needed to study more, pray more, respect your leaders more and dump your wallets into the church coffers." But, you know, this is a cliché. Nobody would fall for that tired scam any more. So the real point of interest in this flagging Millerite melodrama is whether the "back door" will be old and worn or something novel and inventive. I bet on old and worn.
Malignant Theology coming alive and destined to disappoint...
RCG members, PLEASE avoid the "Kool-Aid Social" on the Last Great Day!
NEO, it has been obvious for several years that Dave Pack's "back door" is something very close to this:
"Brethren, I've fought this understanding and tried to deny it, but now God has made it plain and clear to me. I am the Christ. I am the prophesied one. I was born in the same year the state of Israel was established, and it makes sense that God gave the world His restored Jewish state and His returned Christ at the same time. Finally, end-time prophecy all makes sense."
Naturally his executive staff who recently left are identified in the scriptures: "rotten apples" he refers to them as. Did he claim they were hooking up with Monson? And "LCG just lost 1000 members"? Would be good if it's true :-)
Non_Ecliptic_Orbit said...
The Great Disappointment of 2020. I think the real supernatural event is that the spirit of William Miller
You could call it the William Miller syndrome, but in reality it goes back to the beginning of Christianity: The apostles were actually looking for a *first* appearance of their ethereal Messiah not a "second coming" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmN9xCqX454
The most seductive phrase in eschatology being "..things are so bad now, surely it's time for Christ's appearance.."
1:30 AM said : "Am I the only one here to think that this maniac is getting scarier by the day? I fear for the well-being of the RCG members."
Don't fear for the remaining RCG members. They have had more than enough proof and time to see that Dave is making shit up as he goes. By now only the brain dead attend. Dave seems to think that when it doesn't happen, he'll just tweek it in a such a way as to once again find that his god is giving him more time and that "now I see things more clearly than ever. WE missed it before."
You will find when Dave is pre-dicting that which is to come to pass, he says "I". When it fails again, he says "WE" did not understand, then returns to "I" now have seen, and "WE" missed it..... "
Dave Pack is looking forward to all the ministers who left RCG over the last 20 years to be put to death, either burned alive or being cut in half with a sword. He has been fixated on killing people who leave his group now for at least 2 years.
The quotes below are taken from a sermon given before Atonement. The comments are pretty clear to me. He associates anyone not “with him” as an antichrist and worthy of death. (They signed their death warrant and orphaned their children, pretty screwed up stuff here) First however their right eye and arm will be crippled. The timeline he gives is just before, or after the Feast.
Maybe the former RCG ministers can sound off after the Feast to let us know they are ok!
Quotes from Dave Pack - "A Non Prophecy Sermon"
https://youtu.be/LOf3-trIiNI
Dave Pack - (36:32)
"Here's what he said. Now you're going to have to decide what an antichrist is. We read what John said. Let's see what Christ said about antichrists. "He, that is not with me is against me. And he, that gathers not with me, scatters abroad." If you're not with him [ministers who left] in gathering you're you're against him in scattering. That means you're against Christ. That means you're an antichrist, which means you don't have the Holy spirit.
That's the definition of an antichrist against Christ. Now, therefore, another Jesus. And none of them will say I'm against Christ. So you're going to have to believe him, not them. Now we have a lot of wonderful faithful ministers and in no way, no way have our faithful ministers been, come into question in my mind. I'm just telling you if a minister leaves, now you need to have the background."
Dave Pack - (~43:02)
If you watch some minister, leave the church, that man, you said, well, he was never converted. He has sinned unto death. He signed his death warrant and he's orphaned his children. He will not live! Christ said he burns corrupt trees. And before that, I'm going to tell you exactly when it is. They're going to lose an eye on an arm. A lot of things are clear. It almost becomes its own indicator that we're running out of time. We had a burst of antichrists. It's wonderful because we're not paying thieves anymore. One of them didn't want to go to his feast assignment. He's worried about getting the COVID. And so when we told him, "No, you gotta go to where your feast is." He quit! I wasn't there when he stamped his feet. I just know he did. I know the man. And I know he did.
Do not pray for these people. You're supposed to know when somebody sins a sin unto death. I've wrestled for decades and other ministers have too well. How would you know that? Well, if they're scattering against Christ, they're blaspheming, the Holy Spirit, they're Corrupt Trees. They're going to be burned, period. End of story. It's not a mystery. So when you see that don't ever pray for that minister. You're praying for an enemy of God who doesn't have the Holy spirit, who isn't going to repent. Why? Because he's a thief and they only come to steal, murder and destroy or kill and destroy.
Continued:
Continued:
Dave Pack - (48:10)
“And there are people leave us and beat us. They begin to beat us. Some of them don't get very far. My Lord delays. His coming ...This is something people who leave us would say, and they beat us and people still don't go. And they begin to smite their fellow servants to eat and drink with the drunken. I've watched them. You never hear the follow up. These guys go out and they literally go back to the world.
...The Lord of that servant will come a day when he's not looking for him in an hour, that he's not aware. They blew off what they were taught here and cut them in two. That's what it says, cut them in two. And they're going to weep and gnashing their teeth. They're going to wait a little while, with one eye and one arm. But that's what it says. They know God's plan. Well, this can't be the dead. The dead aren't doing those things. The dead aren't saying “my Lord delays his coming,” It can’t be Laodicea. They don't know they're blind. They're not looking for Christ. It has to be people who left us and Christ calls them evil, wicked kickoffs, worthless servants. Well, they were only worth they have is that they eventually left and they stopped being paid and people under them aren't anymore.”
Dave Pack - (1:22:25)
Now we could go all the way past the Feast. It seems hard to imagine, but you know, all these verses, he won't tarry won't tarry won't tarry, but wait, wait, wait, wait. And you have a need to be patient. I don't know. Maybe we'll go after the feast. It's gotta be when people are at work. So it won't be during the 10 days of the Feast. But it could be tonight too. Can't be on Atonement. Can't be today. Today's almost over, but terrible, terrible, terrible things are happening.
It's as if Dave is trying to get his members hooked on a drug. The constant excitement of the end being so near parallels a chemical addiction.
It is so convenient that before this sermon, Pack has already began instructing the entire church how to deal with ministers/people who leave.
He says ministers who leave are hoping that "you [the church] are stupid and dumb enough to follow them".
Pack has been heard before by many minister calling the brethren idiots. As a former employee i have sat in staff meetings where he would call us stupid.
RCG is in extreme damage control mode, telling all their members not to read any posts, letters, emails or engage with former members.
He says it's a sin if you do. This is one masterful way to block people from seeing the other side that is not so often spoken about.
He is a very dangerous man who uses the bible so and his eloquence so well to manipulate the scriptures into serving his purpose.
His purpose: cover up the reason 40 plus ministers have left, instruct the membership not to go around perusing on why they left, paint all those ministers as thieves and wolves by telling a select few stories of some actual rotten ministers, and then go on to inform the entire church that Christ is coming at the end of 2020 Feast of Tabernacles. And if not this year then next year. Bait them some more.
Pack is the wolf. But he is using the tactic of telling him members that others are out to get them and their money to shift the very idea that it is in fact him who is stealing their money and treating them like their stupid idiots.
Many people in RCG who sit there are secretly coming to this blog and other sources and communicating more openly with former members and expressing concern with the failed date after date of christ supposed return that Pack keeps changing.
Pack has predicted Christs return over 20 times since the failed elul prophecy in 2013.
Oh, but Dave has already done that! Several times over the past few years he hinted that “Christ and I are much alike”..
When the last RCG member leaves, Dave can retire and the RCG HQ can be sold off piece by piece like AC Pasadena. That may be enough income for his remaining days. Was this his end goal?
@Dennis
“By now only the brain dead attend”.
I agree. But the brain dead are the ones that can be controlled the easiest. If The Great Packster yells ‘Jump!’ the members first question will be ‘How high?’
Lack of free will and an absence of a free mind always is something to worry about.
@5:31AM
And don’t forget the makeup! I can assure you that David Pack IS wearing makeup when he is on screen..
Interesting question; why is Davey allowed to wear makeup but the female part of the members are told that it is a Big No?
When the last RCG member leaves, Dave can retire and the RCG HQ can be sold off piece by piece like AC Pasadena. That may be enough income for his remaining days. Was this his end goal?
Maybe this explains it all. Maybe when Dave warned the brethren not to follow him into apostasy, he already knew he was dealing with mentally weak and unstable people who were easily deceived, so in the hope of retiring with maximum assets he devised a plan, first to ANNOUNCE what he would be doing, and then to spend the next 20 or so years doing it until it was time for him to retire.
Imagine how 20 years of RCG exiters will react if Pack at some point says, "Brethren, I've decided to retire and cash in all your 'Common' and other RCG assets to fund my retirement in an undisclosed location. I warned you not to follow me if I went off into apostasy, so my conscience is clear, as any of you who followed me into all this weirdness were stupid enough to ignore my plain warning because of your own greed or ambition or vanity. I hope you've learned your lesson, but as for me I'm going to enjoy the comfortable retirement that you suckers provided me. And, no, I'm not doing anything different from what Joe Tkach Jr. and his fellows did, except that I'm being open about it now, while they never have been. You should have learned your lesson from their antics, and now that you've been fooled twice I hope you won't be fooled a third time. Enjoy your poverty, suckers!"
Anonymous (9:14)
A Pew Research poll fond that 48 percent of Christians in America believe that Christ will probably or definitely return in the next 40 years. I was surprised at this large percentage. My guess, however, is that Christians down through the ages have wondered about the nearness of Christ's return and have speculated on it.
There is a marked difference between taking the "return language" in the Bible seriously and the obsessive and frenzied pre-occupation with prophecy that is found among the Millerites. In short, I do not agree that we can expand Millerite apocalypticism to encompass all of Christianity and label it a "syndrome." My argument against would include the plethora of pathologies associated with Millerite apocalypticism. I will admit that Millerism very likely grew parasitically on the Christian Movement's acknowledgement of the return language.
An equally important percentage in the Pew poll is that 38 percent of Christians believe that Christ definitely or probably will not return in the next 40 years. This division of opinion, benign within the Christian community, would not be likely tolerated in the Armstrongist splinter groups. This is indicative of a large difference in mindset between Armstrongists and Christians.
NEO,
The median American age is currently 38.2 years, while the median lifespan is 78.7.
In other words, from a Christian point of view, the average American will see Christ in just over 40 years. What does it matter whether or not he returns to the earth in 10 years, 90 years, or 9,000 years? For YOU, he is no more than a century away, and probably far less than that.
Oct 5 @ 1:20 PM, I have long suspected the scenario you present. It all fits together so neatly. Most conspiracy theories have big holes. I can't see any here.
However, we always have to be skeptical about such ideas. So I have put it into the "possible" pile, not the one labeled "true." "Probable"? Maybe.
Retired Prof, it seems pretty obvious that Pack will end his efforts by revealing one of two scenarios:
1. He is consciously a "honeypot" for the apostates he saw were everywhere, and he decided years ago to pull a Tkach and exploit them for his financial benefit, with the added self-justification that he is purifying the rest of the splinters of their worst apostates.
2. He sincerely (though insanely) believes that he is Jesus Christ, but knows this will be a difficult reveal, and he is waiting for some sort of sign from his god that it's time to spill all the beans.
In either scenario, a serious disruption could lead to a Jim Jones or Marshall Applewhite outcome. Not only would this result in tragic deaths, it would also cast the world's eyes on other Armstrong splinters that are clearly susceptible to cult violence. PCG for sure, maybe LCG, certainly some of the smaller one-man outfits like Weinland. Germany has already banned cults like Scientology. Imagine how the splinters would crow if Germany banned PCG, LCG, and other ACOGs!
@10:51AM
It is called ‘Prediction Addiction’.
My guess, probably not worth much, is that Christ's return may occur in the 2030s.
NB. "may"
From the type-antitype (Antichrist/Christ) telescopic prophecy of Daniel 9 there is seven years from the time of a 'building' decree for Jerusalem - after an earthquake takes out at least the buildings on the Temple Mount? (cp. for a great earthquake Zec 14:5).
"Heresies," as Sir Thomas Browne wrote,
“do not perish with their Authors, but like the river Arethusa, though they lose their currents in one place, they rise up again in another... Opinions do find, after certain Revolutions, men and minds like those that first begat them. To see ourselves again, we need not look for Plato's year: every man is not only himself; there have been many Diogenes, and as many Timons, though but few of that name; men are lived over again, the world is now as it was in Ages past, there was none then, but there hath been someone since that parallels him, and is, as it were, his revived self.”
"If this is true then can we be sure that history has written finis to what was perhaps the grandest design ever conceived by man: the Holy Roman Empire? (George Bailey, Germans: Biography of an Obsession, p.360).
(As aside I am of German heritage with a German surname).
("victory and salvation" - 3rd time lucky? Present population of the EU = 446 million).
"History is littered with wars which everybody knew would never happen" - Enoch Powell
This decree "may" occur after Europe reinvents itself after the coming Great Depression which "may" begin when the stimulus in response to COVID-19 runs its course.
So still looking, perhaps misguidingly for a high in the Dow Jones well over 30,000, with the downwave leading eventually to civil war and the breakup of America.
A comment to an article had this to say:
"Doctors treating Trump have warned the public to expect the worst. A full recovery."
As important stockmarket turning points occur in Republican Administrations (1873, 1929, 1973) a possible Trump's re-election "may" contribute to a coming no-longer United States of America.
People on this blog point to a lot of "sick and recovered", while 99 percent of my postings focus on the disease.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article240035018.html
nck
said by What about the Truth 9:20pm
"God is going to destroy all of the splinters this Feast"..
Where was that?
I missed this piece, where in the taped was that? Please give time
thanks
said by What about the Truth 9:20pm
"God is going to destroy all of the splinters this Feast"..
Where was that?
I missed this piece, where in the taped was that? Please give time
thanks
1:23:50 - 1:24:10 is the time in the sermon when he talks about the splinter destruction.
1:25:25 is the time in the sermon he tells the RCG membership they are not going back to their homes.
At around 32:00, he says the "three shepherds" prediction of Zech. 11:8 which he got wrong in 2012-13 now refers to three ministers who quit RCG on Trumpets this year.
One of them, he says, bought a house in Ocala, FL in the spring to prepare his exit. And he adds that he knows it "firsthand."
What does that mean? An internal email review? Phone tapping?
7:24PM
“What does this mean? ... email review ..? Phone tapping?”
Knowing David Pack.. probably both. Delusional maniacs like him don’t trust people. He wouldn’t even trust his own wife
Did anybody ever speed up these ‘sermons’? When I was still in the RCG I sometimes did that, especially the looooong ones.
You should try it: triple the speed of the video and look at David Pack. It is as if his mask of niceness falls off when you do that.
The person you’ll see and hear is spooky.
11:06
If you are a christian I urge you to never "slow down" female fox anchors newsreading or fall in the trapping of temptation.
Another nice trick is to tape pictures of half of peoples faces, to see two sides of their personalities. One half smiling other half sad, mischievious or evil.
Nck
An internal email review? Phone tapping?
Remember the Dean brothers in WCG? Phone tapping was an old WCG standard. I know it went on in the Global Church of God, too. Pack was in WCG and Global, so it makes sense that he would continue with the tradition of phone tapping.
My husband is at one of Pack's feast sites, since he isn't coming home, I'm left to wonder if I should be making arrangements to go get the car.
My husband is at one of Pack's feast sites, since he isn't coming home, I'm left to wonder if I should be making arrangements to go get the car.
(Picture the following response in Dave's voice, not mine) "Silly woman, you have no rights. Your husband gave the car as "Common" before he attended our Kool-Aid social. He is now a spirit being."
Oct 7 2:20pm,
Under most circumstances, you would be right, but the car is in my name and not his, so there would be no common there. I've been forced to do some homework a couple of years ago and I made some necessary changes. After all, I never know when he's just going to up and leave because Pack said so. I live each day with some expectation of that happening.
One of them, he says, bought a house in Ocala, FL in the spring to prepare his exit. And he adds that he knows it "firsthand."
What does that mean? An internal email review? Phone tapping?
No, it's simpler: bullshitting.
Pack is panicing.. And take note: there is nothing worse than a narcissist who knows people are on to him.
He's out to get revenge. And guess who will get hurt?
1.20 PM
I don't believe that narcissists like Dave want to retire since they crave the power and attention. They only retire when forced by some debilitating physical or mental ailment.
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