Doug Winnail's weekly "Happy Sabbath" comment:
The Church of God Today: Jesus said, “I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it” (Matthew 16:18). Jesus’ statement indicates that His Church would continue to exist down through the ages. The New Testament Church began on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) and is referred to numerous times in the New Testament as the “Church of God” (1 Corinthians 1:2; 10:32; 11:22; 15:9; Galatians 1:13). Some think the “work” of the Church of God ended with the death of Mr. Herbert Armstrong. However, Jesus commissioned His disciples to “go into all the world and preach the gospel” (Mark 16:15), and He promised, “I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (Matthew 28:20). The “work” of God’s Church continues today, preaching the Gospel of the coming Kingdom of God, warning the Israelite nations and the nations of the world about the consequences of turning away from God, and preparing people to rule with Jesus Christ in the coming Kingdom. That message is delivered powerfully using the modern means of television, Internet, print media, and Tomorrow’s World presentations. The commission that Jesus gave to His disciples continues through ever more powerful doors that God is opening to His Church today—and you are part of that effort!
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail
Comments from an LCG source:
Doug Winnail states the typical, "The “work” of God’s Church continues today, preaching the Gospel of the coming Kingdom of God, warning the Israelite nations and the nations of the world about the consequences of turning away from God..."
To what end is this preaching to the world done, according to LCG? In a member letter from Dec. 16, 2020 Gerald Weston states, "At the same time, prophecy shows that the Gospel of the Kingdom of God will be preached in all the world, not to convert the world, but as a witness. Notice this passage in what is called the Olivet Prophecy as found in Matthew 24."
Never did Jesus say that his followers are not to be motivated to convert the world. Weston added that. I submit that of the core tenants of the COG movement is a callous view of one's neighbor. The COG at its core is not motivated to preach to the world out of compassion for the world, but only to be a witness against the world. When Winnail says that the church's job is to preach for the purpose of warning, what he means is that the purpose is not to convert, just as Weston confirms. This is the reason why people in the world sense that the COG preachers are cold and condescending. People sense that there is no real Christian compassion.
Dear Brethren and Co-workers with Christ,
A neighbor of mine is planning to light up his fire pit and invite the neighbors to come over and burn their 2020 calendars on New Year’s Eve. My wife and I do not celebrate this occasion, as God has a very different calendar with different days of celebration. But, most of you are no doubt happy this Roman calendar year is rapidly coming to an end. The question now is, What are we to expect in the year to come? Will it be a reprieve or another year with similar drama? Bible prophecy indicates that the world will experience a crisis at the end of the age, and there are multiple signs that we are entering just such a time. Going forward we can expect many things will go wrong. There are going to be some major shocks and surprises in our very near future.
Notice that Weston starts right off spouting a callous comment about his neighbor. Is it any wonder COG members also act the same way?
At the same time, prophecy shows that the Gospel of the Kingdom of God will be preached in all the world, not to convert the world, but as a witness. Notice this passage in what is called the Olivet Prophecy as found in Matthew 24.
Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come (Matthew 24:11-14).
Every word of this passage needs to be considered. Notice that there will be many false prophets at the end. Today, we have an abundance of “fake news” found on all sides of the political and social spectrums, followed by hordes of devotees to self-proclaimed social media gurus. Of course, false leaders of professing Christianity are clearly warned against in verses 4 and 5 of this same chapter.
Weston fails to mention the abundance of fake news in the COG movement in this day and age. Never has the church been filled with so many false prophets uttering the most asinine things imaginable. Never has the "love" of COG groups and members been at such a low. Groups despise other groups. They call each other Laodicean. They seek to actively steal members from other groups along with tier money. On and on the list can go.
Notice too that lawlessness will abound. We see more than enough of that, but dear friends, hold onto your hats as anarchy will no doubt be on our plate for the coming year and a second American civil war is not out of the question. Jesus also shows us in this passage that His servants must endure to the end. The year 2020 required endurance, but we must expect even more difficult times to come. But the focal point of the passage is that “this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come” (verse 14).
Never one to let a good tragedy or public disturbance go to waste, Weston breathlessly hints at "second civil war" hitting the land. Keep people scared and in fear, that is the COG way. Of course, any difficult time that is present is always a sure sign of the end and will lead to persecution of the church.
This Gospel of the Kingdom is not just a message about the person of Christ, but the message Christ Himself proclaimed for three-and-a-half years prior to His crucifixion. We emphasize this often, but I wonder how many “get it”? Yes, it includes the way into the Kingdom by Christ’s shed blood, but even that is not always fully understood. As the Apostle Paul shows us, “For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life” (Romans 5:10). Yes, we are saved from death by His life, not His death! We have been at variance with God, not subject to His law (Romans 8:7-8), and need the blood of Christ to cleanse us of our past sins and to reconcile us, to bring us into a right relationship with God. But we also need Christ living in us by the power of the Holy Spirit. Traditional Christianity rarely makes this distinction, but the Scriptures are clear about it. Our former Presiding Evangelist, the late Dr. Roderick C. Meredith, often quoted Galatians 2:20 as the best one-verse definition of Christianity: “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me” (KJV). We are crucified with Christ at baptism, but Christ must then form His character and way of life in us.
Meredith and Weston (and other COG leaders) love to proclaim, "But we also need Christ living in us by the power of the Holy Spirit. Traditional Christianity rarely makes this distinction, but the Scriptures are clear about it." Statements like this prove how much these guys do not know about Christians around them. This is a traditional belief in Christianity. It is not something unique to Herbert and crew, nor is it anything they have restored, redeemed, or corrected.
While watching my recent Tomorrow’s World telecast, “Hope in Tough Times,” I realized that I spent a lot of time on that program discussing the bad things and not enough time on the good things found in the Holy Days that Jesus, His apostles, and first-century Christianity kept. More details were needed. The Gospel (good news) of the Kingdom of God means Jesus Christ will come back to rule this troubled planet and He will appoint His servants to be the rulers under Him in His millennial reign (Zechariah 14:9; Ezekiel 37:24-25; Luke 19:16-19; Revelation 20:4). These are those who have shown in this life total loyalty to Him. They are those who have developed His character of genuine care for the well-being of others. It means an end to warfare and to rampant crime where the criminal is let off and the victim suffers. It means the end of rape, murder, and robbery. And, thank God, it means the end of political campaigns filled with lies, hypocrisy, and broken promises.
Most of the COG groups today could not exist without emphasizing the bad things in the world around them. They need misery, pain, and trauma around them to make themselves look prophetic and champions of a kingdom to come. Instead of acting like a real follower of Christ and caring for those around them in the world and sharing a foretaste of that love they claim the Kingdom of God will have, they isolate themselves and cower in their office headquarters and their pill-pushing storefronts.
The long tradition of COG member/co-worker letters is one of profound horror at how evil the world is and a desperate plea for money. God cannot do anything without some cash on hand.
Weston carries on that tradition:
Dear Brethren and Co-workers, these letters are sent to encourage you, to update you on the Work of Tomorrow’s World and the Living Church of God, and to thank you for the support you have given. Your part in this Work of the living Jesus Christ, whether through your prayers or your financial generosity, is immensely appreciated. Most of the financial support we receive might be classified as modest or average, but that is not the whole picture. Jesus gives us an important perspective:
Now Jesus sat opposite the treasury and saw how the people put money into the treasury. And many who were rich put in much. Then one poor widow came and threw in two mites, which make a quadrans. So He called His disciples to Himself and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all those who have given to the treasury; for they all put in out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all that she had, her whole livelihood” (Mark 12:41-44).
COG leaders have never, NEVER, had any concern about widows and the small amount of money they could give. They gleefully took it and most of the time demanded it by claiming tithing is a requirement for salvation. Heck, Rod Meredith cared so much for them that he took 3rd tithe and remodeled his home in Pasadena with it! Look at Pack and Flurry and how they demand money from their followers. It is disgusting what they all do.
It is human to thank those who give large gifts, as it takes many small donations to equal a large one. However, we must learn to see as God sees and not overlook the widow’s mites. That is why I do not send a special “thank you” letter to individuals for exceptionally large donations. They are, of course, greatly appreciated, and if this applies to you, thank you! But God, it appears, is equally pleased, if not more, with the widow’s mite.
LCG leaders have always slobbered over large money donors. That is a well-established fact in the Living Church of God. However, it is not unique to them. They learned it from the mother church and the actions of leaders in Pasadena.
I hope this honesty will not offend anyone, but it is something I feel very deeply. I want to express appreciation to all of you equally and let God evaluate gifts and the hearts that give them. We must not be respecters of persons. So whether you gave a lot this past year, or gave a small amount out of your poverty, thank you, thank you, thank you! May the God of creation who sees all bless each one of you richly!
No matter what comes our way in 2021, we look to the encouraging prophecies of what is beyond the difficult times. We look to the time when nations “shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore” (Isaiah 2:4), and when they “shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea” (Isaiah 11:9). Dear Brethren and Co-workers, please be encouraged by reading all of Isaiah 35, which beautifully describes how God will heal the earth and the lives of those suffering physical challenges such as blindness and deafness.
Why wait for some future moment that is always beyond reach when you have the opportunity TODAY to make a difference in the lives of those suffering physical challenges, blindness, and deafness? Imagine how good it would feel to let these people experience a foretaste of that kingdom you so desperately long for. Imagine how much better the world would be around you and it would help take the focus off all the negative things.
Alas, how I forget, the good news of things to come is ONLY for good COG members who are the ONLY people of God in the world today.
Thank you again for your loyal support with your prayers, tithes, and offerings this past year. There is good news in the future for the people of God. Let us not faint in this day of adversity (Proverbs 24:10) and let us do what we are able while we have time.
Sincerely, in Christ’s service,Gerald E. Weston
35 comments:
Have you noticed that, ever since Sheldon Monson left LCG, Winnail has spent more time writing new comments instead of recycling old ones? It's too little, too late, but at least he seems to have received a wake-up call about his former laziness.
And don’t forget the other powerful force that’s driving them: self-idolatry!
And if the reason for preaching is not to convert, then they must also not be motivated to preach repentance because the only reason to repent is to convert, unless I am mistaken and it is possible to preach repentance without the purpose of converting. So, another associated core tenant is that most of the people hearing the message are not being called and therefore cannot possibly convert. What then is the point of warning the world if they cannot repent and convert??
The Cogs believe that they are the scarce vessel that will proclaim the "End Time Work". However, the Bible speaks of the work of the Two Witnesses , who will be seen around the world, and also of a "Three Angels Messages" that will also be given as a witness and testimony to all the world.
COG efforts will be but a small drop in the bucket by comparison.
I believe that HWA (and his successors) , tried to make their own operations as the "exclusive" place for "accomplishing the work". This implied unfaltering allegiance to the hierarchy and "file and control" monetary and obedience systems.
The SDAs believe in the 3 Angels messages (after all it is scriptural), as does the COG 7th Day, as ultimate fulfillments of the "Gospel going to all nations", but HWA despised all things COG 7 Day, as after all, they were the supposed "Sardis Church"!
Here is the 3 Angels , yet future, fulfillment...
The First Angel’s Message
The first angel proclaims the everlasting gospel and calls for the restoration of the true worship of God as Creator, because the judgment hour has arrived.
First angel’s message
“Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people—saying with a loud voice, ‘Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water’” (Revelation 14:6, 7).
The Second Angel’s Message
“Another angel followed, saying, ‘Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication’” (Revelation 14:8).
The Third Angel’s Message
“Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, ‘If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation....they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.’ Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus” (Revelation 14:9-12).
Anon 11:09 AM very interesting comment.
GW doesn't understand the phrase "as a witness"? The witness was by those who saw and heard Jesus Christ. GW didn't hear and see Jesus when He was here on earth. GW cannot preach to the world as a witness. The true witnesses, the disciples, were told to teach, and baptize - Mat 28:19 - so they were instructed to convert those of the world.
Well, it comes down to is "Do as I say, not as we do".
Some witness to the world, really.
When you speak of cogs not caring about the world some do what they think is the work. Then you have the richest Cogwa and is also the stingiest of all cogs. They neither publish a magazine to the world warning of things to come or have any sort of broadcast. Isaiah 56:10-12
covers cogwa so well. They seem to cover the Laodicean church period quite well Rev3:14-22 and also could be that wicked and evil servant Mat 25:26 of not doing the work. They believe that the two witnesses will complete the commission of preaching the gospel. But that's not what Christ told them, He told them that they were to go out to the world and preach the gospel.
I think what best describes the role and 'work' that the COGs accomplish is "ACCUSER" so maybe they are about their father's business after all.
"And if the reason for preaching is not to convert, then they must also not be motivated to preach repentance because the only reason to repent is to convert, unless I am mistaken and it is possible to preach repentance without the purpose of converting. So, another associated core tenant is that most of the people hearing the message are not being called and therefore cannot possibly convert. What then is the point of warning the world if they cannot repent and convert??"
This is an astute observation, and exposes multiple problems with the approach of the COGs in preaching the gospel. If those hearing the message are not being "called" and therefore have no chance of repentance or conversion, then how is it just to send punishment on a people who have no ability to understand or heed the "warning" being sent out? We preach punishment and tribulation for those who do not respond to the gospel, while at the same time saying that most will not understand or heed the message we send, because God isn't choosing to call them now.
How is this that much different than the theory of predestination, which basically teaches, according to my understanding that some are predestined by God to be saved, while others are predestined to hell apart from or regardless of any action of their own. By extension this idea would imply that Jesus didn't die for the sins of all mankind, but only for those who have been predestined to be saved. While the COGs do teach that all who come up in the second resurrection will be called or given the chance to choose to follow God, the teaching that only a few are being called in this life and thus have the ability to respond to the gospel message while others who don't have that ability will be punished with tribulation and plagues is equally flawed, and paints God as being unjust and a respecter of persons.
Concerned Sister
"If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark"
BITCOIN
"At the same time, prophecy shows that the Gospel of the Kingdom of God will be preached in all the world, not to convert the world, but as a witness."
Christianity recognizes Matthew 28:16-20 as the Great Commission. Yet, Armstrongism looks to Matthew 24:14. And like the writer states, this choice seems to permeate Armstrongism with a spirit of discompassion. When I see a point where Armstrongism and Christianity are highly divergent, warning lights go off. Proceed with caution. For someone in long-term recovery, it is easy to get muddled.
The language in Matthew 28 clearly conveys the understanding that Christ is giving a commission to the church. The language in Matthew 24 does not do this but seems to be a simple declarative statement. For this reason I have always been puzzled about why Armstrongists invest the Matthew 24 language with such organizational purpose. The language clearly doesn't carry this water. My theory is that Matthew 24:14 was selected because it connects to End Time Prophecy and Armstrongists believe they are the true church at the End Time. The malformed logic goes like this:
Proposition One: This is the End Time. (an assumption that is not proveable)
Proposition Two: Therefore, Matthew 24:14 must be the charter for Splinterdom at the End Time.
It is seems like that what they are trying to do is to is push hard on Proposition 2 in the hopes that it will force Proposition One to be true. That is a logical fallacy called Affirming the Consequent.
The salient question is this. If Splinterdom adopts Matthew 24:14 as the charter for their activities what do they do with the language in Matthew 28? Discard it? How do they one day tell Jesus that they discarded his commissioning statement in favor of a non-commissioning narrative statement? This will be especially embarrassing if the End Times are hundreds of years yet in the future. The ship would then have sailed without them.
I believe that Armstrongists do not have the authority to cancel the language of Matthew 28 and replace it with Matthew 24:14 because of some fascination with prophecy. At a minimum they must do both. They must witness, if they see it that way, but by all means they must spread the word of truth with the goal of saving souls. (Of course, I am not trying to encourage the spread of Armstrongist teaching. This is only a logical case analysis.)
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A neighbor of mine is planning to light up his fire pit and invite the neighbors to come over and burn their 2020 calendars on New Year’s Eve. My wife and I do not celebrate this occasion, as God has a very different calendar with different days of celebration.
This is a "callous comment"?!?!
Gerald Weston states what a neighbor does, then what he does. If statements of fact are "callous," then callousness is truly in the eye of the beholder - and this blog isn't far from the judgmental crowd in San Francisco.
Christ did not commend the widows mite. He simply taught a principle. The principle that she gave "more" is mentioned in investment books (eg, an increase in wealth has little utility if one is already rich).
In terms of preserving one's life, the windows charity was foolish and defeats the whole purpose of charity.
“There is good news in the future for the people of God.” — Weston
Not particularly comforting to those hurting now. But, at least it’s condescending and pompous (people of god = cog).
Neo,
Good comment. Wcg and splinterdom seem to care more about “doing their job” of telling their faulty gospel. So, it does not have to be presented well or be of any help; just needs to be able to be pointed to as “a witness” to all the stiffnecked.
Matt 28 is more involved and personal.
That the COGs cannot allow for a current kingdom as lovingly and explicitly stated in Col. 1:13 is telling of their rigidity to adhere to the teaching of Armstrong. That is where the hope is for the believer while looking to a future fulfillment.
Col.1:13 “who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of His Beloved Son;”
Weston said, "a second American civil war is not out of the question."
Since COGs believe Bible prophecy is all about the US, Britain, and other hidden tribes of Israel, where is this in their prophecies?
And what happened to the "Germans are coming! The Germans are coming"?
Weston is not preaching the same scares that HWA did, so he cannot be a true successor to HWA.
The LCG distortion of the Great Commission be only a warning, not intended to convert people is a cover-up for why they cannot obtain converts.
Of course, they cannot gain converts because their warning gospel is not the redemptive Gospel of Jesus, who saves completely.
NEO -
Matt 24 vs Matt 28 - couldn't have said it better. For COGs a "witness" is far more achievable than "making disciples". A few years ago, COGs were pushing website hits as a "witness" and some claimed they "witnessed" to "all nations".
Even if you pare "all nations" to the Biblical "70 nations"(based on descent) COGs will never reach the goal of "having disciples" in "all nations". I'd put it that even many COG "members" would not be considered "disciples of Jesus".
RCM commented on the small impact LCG has made in the world. I don't recall the analogy he used, but it was akin to "a drop in the ocean". LCG may have reached "all nations" with web hits, but it faces an enormous task to achieve anything near the requirements of "the Great Commission".
"God has a very different calendar.."
And which calendar is that? The 360 day a year calendar that requires major additions every so often? The present calendar is very functional.
And which calendar is that? The 360 day a year calendar that requires major additions every so often? The present calendar is very functional.
God is not the author of confusion, you silly pagan! His sacred annual calendar can be 353 days long, or 354, or 355, or 383, or 384, or 385. Much better than the evil pagan calendar year that is either 365 or 366 days long.
NEO:
"The language in Matthew 28 clearly conveys the understanding that Christ is giving a commission to the church. The language in Matthew 24 does not do this but seems to be a simple declarative statement. For this reason I have always been puzzled about why Armstrongists invest the Matthew 24 language with such organizational purpose. The language clearly doesn't carry this water. My theory is that Matthew 24:14 was selected because it connects to End Time Prophecy and Armstrongists believe they are the true church at the End Time."
There is much substance in that paragraph NEO. Matt. 24:14 is the perfect scenario for those that are "doers". If I and we all do our jobs properly and in time, we can create a conclusion. Matt. 24:14 is also the perfect formula for an upstart ministry headed by an expert salesman to create a movement. Somebody has to give "that" testimony and it has to be sold to the world. That was Herbert Armstrong's launch point from the valley of Oregon.
Very close to two generations have been created since 1986. That means two generations have passed away for those new generations to take their place. Two other generations have gotten lost in the wilderness of religious extremism or easy passive acknowledgement.
Is God slack with timing or do we have a big problem here. Acknowledge the problem and error and that means being forced to slide over to Matt. 28. Sliding over to Matt. 28 means loss of money, loss of ministerial jobs and a poor replica of what is already available out there (ask Joe).
Weston has taken helm of an ever cruising ocean vessel that is operating with a divided and error filled manifest. Reading this letter is all the evidence one needs to prove Weston is completely lost while staring straight ahead.
Herbert Armstrong mastered his creative restoration advancement only for a short time. It was a skillful advancement of "don't believe me, believe your bible". A hands off approach, that when it became congregational, it was still a hands off approach.
We are now well past the time where a Sabbath keepers place of safety is returning to the mother church - COG 7. If not, those that are riding along on the lost ocean liners had better hang on tight or be prepared to be bored to death.
7.23 AM
Are you kidding? God using 355 or 383 day calenders makes no mathematical sense. Consider the creation, it's practical. Without a 365 day calender with some minor adjustments, the seasons would not consistently line up with the yearly months. Instead of January being winter time, it would eventually be summer time.
Perhaps if you'd been more concerned about God than the organisational structure unknown,then you'd not be so brutally bitter.
Doug Winnail wrote: "...The New Testament Church began on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2)..."
Doug, by another spirit, also preaches another gospel about a Mickey Mouse Millennium (MMM) with another Jesus very soon to return to planet earth and reign with "little helpers" (Doug's fellow hirelings? other xcog hirelings?) on earth for 1,000 years, after which Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit and messes up the entire earth again!
God's Church began with its first member, Jesus Christ, and began several years earlier than that Pentecost Day Doug speaks about. God's Church began the day Jesus Christ was baptized and John saw "...the Spirit descending, AND REMAINING ON him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost." John 1:33 Jesus was God's Church's first member. Others were added by God about 3 1/2 years later on the Day of Pentecost that Doug was referring to. Doug needs to learn to stop preaching/teaching us about his "junk food," which is not Biblically-based.
When will Doug repent of his current "junk food" thoughts regarding the MMM and Pentecost?
When will Doug repent and acknowledge that Christ's second coming occurred after Jesus Christ, not another Jesus, returned to earth a second time, a second coming, after He was murdered, was dead for 3 days and 3 nights, was resurrected to visit with His/our Father, The God (not another God), and hung around on earth for about 40 days?
Time will tell...
John
Weston within his latest coworker letter tells us his theory about his idea of the gospel:
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"...The Gospel (good news) of the Kingdom of God means Jesus Christ will come back to rule this troubled planet and He will appoint His servants to be the rulers under Him in His millennial reign (Zechariah 14:9Open in Logos Bible Software (if available); Ezekiel 37:24-25Open in Logos Bible Software (if available); Luke 19:16-19Open in Logos Bible Software (if available); Revelation 20:4Open in Logos Bible Software (if available))..."
******
Weston cites 4 scriptures and there is nothing proving Jesus' millennial reign on this troubled planet. Oh, there is mention of a 1,000 years, but no indication about Jesus' reign on this troubled planet/earth.
Weston then shares with us more of his good news: "...It means an end to warfare and to rampant crime where the criminal is let off and the victim suffers. It means the end of rape, murder, and robbery. And, thank God, it means the end of political campaigns filled with lies, hypocrisy, and broken promises..."
But where does Weston get his thoughts for that end to warfare and various evils? Where is proof from the Biblical record?
Moving a 1,000 years into the future, a 1,000 years beyond Weston's good news/gospel we may find this:
Rev 20:3 "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."
Oh, oh! Have we had "that end to warfare...rape, murder, and robbery?
No! How could we? After all the father of lies, and murders, is on the "loose" again! What may we expect? An end of warfare? No, read on!
:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.
Weston is locked into a Mickey Mouse Millennium! Where was Jesus Christ and his "little helpers?"
Will the likes of Weston, Winnail, Thiel, Flurry, Pack, Kubic, Franks, Weinland, et al, all via another spirit, ever become unlocked from the junk food of their belief in another Jesus and another gospel and no longer continue to be deceived? And asking people to have a $profitable$ day/week, and then following up with some begging for tithes doesn't help their situation, but...
Time will tell...
John
John,
What do you believe about the 1000 year reign then? I am curious.
Anon, February 14, 2021 at 4:45 PM, asked:
"...What do you believe about the 1000 year reign then? I am curious..."
******
In response, I will provide portions of a partial transcript of sermon titled The Light, Part 3 given on 23 August 1997"
"...Remember, this Millennium is just beginning: this thousand year period. We’re gone. Satan is gone, but there are still people on earth......They don’t have Satan’s nature in them...What’s going to happen then? Well, what does the Feast of Tabernacles really picture when you think about it, when you don’t try to put a theory, a human interpretation, on God’s words? It pictures a very, very physical time, doesn’t it? When you go to the Feast, what is there? God has you save that second tithe; you go to the Feast with your family; you get out from the world with a lot of different Church people; you are all of the same thinking; you’re having a good time: having the best time, physically. We look forward to it all year. It is physical, isn’t it? Plenty of food, water, drink and money! We can go out to eat, do plenty of things with our children, and go to places we weren’t able to do the rest of the year. Families spend time together. It pictures peace: PEACE over the entire world. It pictures what the entire world at that time, those thousand years, is going to be like. It will be a good time with plenty for all. Isn’t that the way we’ve always kept the Feast: physically?
Now, people always tried to make the Feast into some spiritual time: “Oh, pray more, study more and do all of this more,” but it never did work; did it? Be honest. It didn’t work. It wasn’t supposed to work. This is picturing the people on this earth in a beautiful and wonderful, physical human utopia. It’s not the Garden of Eden yet, but there’s not going to be the murders and killings and thievery. That nature will have been taken away.
At this time God’s angels will be over those cities and nations: not Satan’s angels. Satan and his demons are over today’s cities and nations. Look at the mess we have today. Well, today you don’t see those bad angels, and you won’t see God’s angels either, but they will be there. They will be working, and they will make sure that those thousand years work exactly the way God wants them to: in peace and in harmony......God’s Spirit isn’t even going to be here for any of the people, but they will live a physical life......Do you know what the first thing is that will happen in the Millennium after the resurrection and the people are on their own? They will say: “The first thing we have to do is make sure everyone goes to bed with a full stomach!” You know; there are 40,000 children who die every day on this earth because they don’t have enough food or medicine. Sanitary conditions are terrible, and children die. That will never happen. That is the first thing they will stop. Everyone will work together. People WILL be their brother’s keepers. What a marvelous time humanly speaking.
Satan made us think and we thought all these verses in the Bible applied to the Millennium, but they didn’t. ALL those verses apply to a different period of time. You will see that shortly. One of the only verses I could find about the Millennium, other than the ones about the Holydays and the Feast of Tabernacles, is this one. It may apply and it may not, but I think it fits. It’s Amos 8:11-12.
Amos 8:11 “Behold, the days some, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:”
......
12 “And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.”
But these two verses apply to the Millennium. That’s shocking, isn’t it? We thought it was going to be a different time. That’s why we’re going through this..."
Will there be a human utopia on earth for 1,000 years?
Time will tell...
John
John
As I've said before, you must have a non Armstrongite denominational home base that you're hiding from us.
People grow up in a certain denomination, and it's doctrines become like a comfortable pair of old slippers. The beliefs become impervious to reason and persuasion to the contrary.
Anon, February 15, 2021 at 9:07 AM, said:
"...As I've said before, you must have a non Armstrongite denominational home base that you're hiding from us.
People grow up in a certain denomination, and it's doctrines become like a comfortable pair of old slippers. The beliefs become impervious to reason and persuasion to the contrary..."
******
So, what does that all mean? Are you the same Anon as "Anon, February 14, 2021 at 4:45 PM" or a different Anon? If the same Anon, then you received an answer to the question you asked. No one asks you to agree with it.
Most xcog people still believe in the MMM Mickey Mouse Millennium of another Jesus reigning on earth 1,000 years). I was a part of the former WCG for a quarter of a century believing in that MMM, wearing a "comfortable pair of slippers," but no longer. Yes, If you continue to believe in such a doctrine, fine, carry on with your belief.
But, how long will you be enjoying your current "comfortable pair of old slippers?"
Time will tell...
John
John
February 15, 2021 at 6:38 AM
I am Anon 4:45 PM and not Anon 9:07 AM.
I still don't get your explanation of this 1,000 year of physical utopia. Do you mean we won't be reigning with Christ as taught by Armstrong? Then what are we doing in the Kingdom of God? Who are these people in the 1,000 year Millennium? I am confused. Feel free to enlighten me more.
Anon, February 16, 2021 at 6:31 AM = Anon 4:45 PM, replied saying:
******
"I still don't get your explanation of this 1,000 year of physical utopia. Do you mean we won't be reigning with Christ as taught by Armstrong? Then what are we doing in the Kingdom of God? Who are these people in the 1,000 year Millennium? I am confused. Feel free to enlighten me more..."
******
In 1998 I came to understand there would be a physical human utopia, without Jesus Christ, on earth for 1,000 years, but prior to that 1998 so many of us learned, from HWA of the former WCG, to believe in a teaching that Jesus would return at His "second coming" to clouds, meet up with the resurrected Bride composed of sealed Firstfruits (FFs), and them come down to reign on earth for 1,000 years.
How did HWA conclude that speculation?
Two verses (Rev 5:10 & Rev 20:6) were taken out of context and treated both as though they were speaking about reigning on earth for 1,000 years, without understanding that reigning on earth would not happen until several years after Satan exits the bottomless pit, while other scriptures showed Jesus would return with the FFs to be accepted by His Father.
You earlier asked, "What do you believe about the 1000 year reign then?" Since this thread was talking about "reign on earth," I basically said it won't happen during the upcoming 1,000 years. It's for later and so is the Kingdom of God for later, but a human utopia, via scriptures, will occur during that 1,000 years on earth.
Further, you asked, "Do you mean we won't be reigning with Christ as taught by Armstrong?" True, b/c Armstrong taught what he knew, but it all was not correct and he did not understand the timing of those 2 verses. Rev 20:6 occurs during the 1,000 years, but Rev 5:10 will not be fulfilled until several years after Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit. Check out what the Biblical record teaches.
The people during the 1,000 years lived through the period of the 6 Trumps and exist at the start of the 1000 year period, during which time Satan is unable to have any more control over the lives of any human beings until that vile, evil, thing later exits that pit.
And where are the FFs? With the Lamb, wherever He is/goes! See the Biblical record:
“These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.” Revelation 14:4
Those verses are true. Timing!
You may want to seek out answers to some questions such as:
Where is Jesus Christ today? What is He doing? He has been reigning for the past 2,000 years, and He will continue reigning through the 1,000 year period ahead, but where will He be? When will His enemies (Remember, the last enemy is death!) be subdued? Etc.
Whether you do any of that:
Time will tell…
John
John
February 16, 2021 at 3:15 PM
Anon 4:45 PM here. Thank you very much for the explanation. I will study the given verses for further study. Can I have your email for further confidential exchanges if you don't mind. I would love to explore similar and other topics. Thank you once again for your helpful contribution.
Anon, If you don't mind I'd prefer you give me your email address. Thank you.
John
John. If you will respond to this with your email (I won't post it) I will connect you with Anon...I have his email address for you.
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