One thing the Church of God has always preached, though never truly believed, was that we are all free moral agents who have the ability to choose right from wrong. That sounds logical to anyone outside of Armstrongism, but not to members. To choose to reject utterances from a leader, or understand that certain teachings are piles of crap, or even discern when church leaders are liars, carries a weaponized reaction. To choose differently than the established order was a direct pipeline to the lake of fire and being screamed at by a minister or some ordained flunky, or worse, being tortured by the Germans and placed into concentration camps. No one wanted to see their children hung up on meathooks because of disregarding the words of a minister or church leader.
It also always seems that the most abusive and aberrant COG's out there are the ones who claim members have the right to choose, and that is what Stephen Flurry is doing in the Philadelphia Church of God. PCG is considered by most in the COG movement to be a disgusting legalistic church that is damaging its member's lives (and wallets).
Lil'Stevie writes:
When you hear the word power in the context of the Bible or God, you probably think of seas parting, dark clouds rolling, lightning striking, the universe—God’s power. But there is another power talked about in the Bible—that God gives to each of us. In fact, it’s a power we’ve had since birth. Though it is not God’s spiritual power, it is a tool that God uses to help us grow, overcome and build righteous character.
This gift is the power to choose. Not even God controls this power (except in Himself, of course). Wow! Could there even be such a thing as that?
This power of choice is so significant that it determines whether you are blessed or cursed. We can choose the way that will result in much happiness, joy and abundance. Or we can choose the way that inevitably leads to heartache, struggle and frustration.
Right off the bat, Stevie has to subtly threaten PCG members. If they choose differently than him or his daddy, then they are cursed. If they are cursed and leave the church then they will live miserable lives filled with frustration and struggle. Anyone who has left PCG or any other COG group and is totally free from Armstrongism knows that this is a lie.
There is cause for every effect. That is a law! God says that whatever we sow, we will eventually reap. Whatever the effect, there was an original cause. We must truly realize the power we have in choosing!
To choose to go against the PCG and its leaders is to go against God himself. Members need to be constantly told that their lives will be miserable and worthless because God has totally abandoned them. God is just waiting for people to choose wrongly so he can make them all miserable.
What are you doing with this power? Is the way you use it setting you up for a productive and fruitful career in God’s Family?
Here is the just of the matter. To be loyal to the PCG is guaranteeing you a place in the godhead as a future god or goddess where you will be able to pass out judgment and rule over people and possibly even be given a world where you will be its god.
The Bible shows clearly that without God’s Holy Spirit working in and leading our lives, we will never attain true happiness and success. We need God’s power—no doubt about it! But this article is not about God’s power. It’s about your power—and what you are doing with it!
Stevie then goes on to quote from two books, one from 1930 and the other from 1906. God forbid if anyone in the PCG ever quoted from a book that was published within the last 5 years or so. But, because Herbert quoted it, it just to be considered scripture, worthy to be added to the continuing book of Acts. These books are about right "thinking" and setting goals.
Lil'Stevie then adds:
Herbert W. Armstrong said in his autobiography that he “often wondered if it is not really better for a young upstart to be conceited, self-confident, cocky—and with it, ambitious, energetic in trying to accomplish something—than to be an ambitionless, spineless, lazy, shiftless fellow utterly lacking in spark, drive, and the zeal to try to accomplish something worthwhile.
Now we know why PCG and so many of the other COG's are filled with such bombastic self-righteous cocky leaders. Herbert said it was ok! And, when you are in the PCG and read something that Herbert said then it is as if God himself put it into his mouth.
27 comments:
Lil Stevie Wonder said: "Herbert W. Armstrong said in his autobiography that he “often wondered if it is not really better for a young upstart to be conceited, self-confident, cocky—and with it, ambitious, energetic in trying to accomplish something—than to be an ambitionless, spineless, lazy, shiftless fellow utterly lacking in spark, drive, and the zeal to try to accomplish something worthwhile.'
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Sounds like Stevie may be responding defensively to in house criticism, or self recognition about him being a young upstart, conceited, self confident, cocky, ambitious, and energetic as GF's heir apparent. The subconscious message would be, "Do you want me to be ambitionless, spineless, lazy, shiftless and utterly lacking spark, drive and zeal...as your future leader?
These leaders claim that to question the minister is to question God. However there are many instances of people questioning God, and when it was understandable, God replied. Some examples: Moses questioned Gods ability to supply meat to all of Israel in the desert, to which God replied "Is Gods hand shortened." Jeremiah respectfully questioned God when he was asked to buy a plot of land during the seige of Jerusalem.
Mary questioned how she could give birth while a virgin. A disciple questioned God when told to lay hands on a blinded Paul.
So the claim that to question God and hence a minister is sinful, is simply not true.
ACOG have been filled with both types of young that Herbert wondered about. Neither types are inline with scriptural descriptions of godly Christians.
Herbert W. Armstrong said in his autobiography that he “often wondered if it is not really better for a young upstart to be conceited, self-confident, cocky...
Agreeing with 11:07 --- I don't recall these being listed among the fruits of the Spirit.
“This power of choice is so significant that it determines whether you are blessed or cursed.” -- Stephen Flurry
Choose the PCG and get cursed.
"Herbert W. Armstrong said in his autobiography that he “often wondered if it is not really better for a young upstart to be conceited, self-confident, cocky . . ."
First, to "wonder" about something is not to endorse it as truth. Second, I believe a certain class of personality type within Splinterdom would avidly adopt this musing as dogma. This is because they see themselves in this mold. It is a kind of self-endorsement that overlays their character flaws with integrity. As the moderator points out, the statement seems to justify their personality inclinations and rationalize their behavior.
In fact there is a semantic problem here. My guess is that HWA was not really sorting people with the rigor of psychology but was drawing an informal distinction. You know, advertising language - meant to persuade. He was not really referring to the "ambitionless" and "ambitious" but to introverts and extraverts. In my own thinking I tend to see these two classes as reflective and demonstrative personality types. The terms introvert and extravert have been too often appropriated for pejorative purposes. Both reflectives and demonstratives have their strengths and weaknesses. God made them both.
But reflectives get a bad rap in Armstrongism. I think this is principally due to the kind of people who were selected for training at Ambassador College - mostly demonstratives. And among demonstratives being demonstrative is good, righteous character - egocentricity would not permit otherwise. A philosopher defined love as "ultimate concern." But HWA defined love as "outgoing concern." There was something about that term "outgoing" that sat well.
I saw this bias in the extreme one day at Sabbath services in a large WCG congregation in a midwestern city. I have mentioned this many times before on this blog. And I will mention it again. I think it is good portal into viewing how many but not all AC trained ministers evaluate people. A preaching elder declared in his sermon that introverts would not receive salvation. Breathtaking. His reasoning was that God needed a personality to work with and introverts had no personality. So into the lake of fire with them, apparently. He's still around. He has a Facebook page. But I don't know if he holds the same views or if he is even a minister anymore. I wonder how many people who sat in the audience that day still solemnly believe what he said.
If you were naturally a demonstrative type, whether by nature or nurture, what this minister said from the pulpit would make you feel that you were really cool. You were what God wanted and your history of disparagement of reflective people was God ordained. But, alas, personality is not righteousness. Charisma is appearance, histrionics and a good business suit. It is not substance and moral behavior. And extraverts have just as much chance of going to hell as anybody else.
******* Click on my icon for Disclaimer
SING ALONG TIME! --- Sing to the tune "WHERE HAVE ALL THE FLOWERS GONE"
Peter, Paul and Mary -1962
https://youtu.be/ZgXNVA9ngx8?t=22
What have all the Flurries done?...
Long time passing.
What have all the Flurries done?...
Fed their BIG EGO! .
What have all the Flurries done?...
Madness picked them every one!
Oh, When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Anons 1107, 622 - agree entirely. And those elements of character are not the makings of the heroes of Horatio Alger stories. I think HWA mentioned reading such stories while he was mooching ("recuperating") at his kinfolk's farm.
HWA called self esteem a sin, as well as implying the same for self confidence. In fact both are virtues. This is deliberate murder, a mental weakening of members minds for the purpose of increasing his power and superiority over his members. His morally challenged ministers have followed him into this vile sin.
This is another example of why HWA won't be in the kingdom. His followers will weep and gnash their teeth on hearing this news, before they themselves are thrown into the lake of fire.
And to think that I once asked Tonto, err, I mean Connie to marry me on this blog. I definitely take back my offer.
Many old people in the PCG are just there to do their own evil things for their own evil reasons. They quickly become frustrated and angry if they do not get to do whatever sin they want to do with whatever younger person they want to do it with, and resort to gossiping, lying, and slandering behind other people's backs. There is nothing Christian about their bad behavior. This is the reality of a satanic imposter cult like the PCG.
Is the PCG really a church, or is it just a front funded by right-wing groups to get their message out with tax deductable contributions to the church? Seems like that would be a win-win for all concerned, at least from their point of view. The right-wingers support a platform proclaiming their political message, they get to deduct the support from taxes, and Gerald Flurry gets to keep his jet plane. I can think of no other reason that the PCG would be so passionate about calling Biden an illegitimate president and proclaiming that Trump will return to power and that Trump won the election and all the other alternate universe nonsense.
Not only a PCG problem anon 6:27 PM. I recall a young couple falsely accused of theft during church services by old people. Turns out the young couple could prove beyond any doubt they had not even been at church services that Sabbath. But mud sticks.
Your headline: "Stephen Flurry: You have the right to choose (unless you choose to go against anything we say)"
This has been on my mind lately concerning U.S. politics - and especially "mask mandates" for COVID-19 control.
Your headline puts it well. Lots of people like freedom of choice... until I make a choice that you consider wrong. The question then becomes: can you accept that?
It's a test not of my obedience to you, but your maturity in relation to me. In much of the U.S. today, and in COGs through the years, I fear people have been flunking that test.
*gist
Anon 7:25 pm
Is the PCG really a church, or is it just a front funded by right-wing groups to get their message out with tax deductable contributions to the church? Seems like that would be a win-win for all concerned, at least from their point of view.
I can't imagine a secular right-wing group being willing to embrace the current church doctrines in order to further their political messages. There's so many other means and ways to send that message in the internet age. And honestly I don't see a very large Venn diagram of people who both believe church doctrine and extreme right wing viewpoints.
NEO 7:59 am
But reflectives get a bad rap in Armstrongism. I think this is principally due to the kind of people who were selected for training at Ambassador College - mostly demonstratives.
My experience in the PCG was that demonstratives were preferred ONLY in leadership positions (even at the congregational level), and reflectives were the preferred personality type for the lay membership.
Nutcase.
I know fir a fact the Church has been working with folks,on completely unrelated topics, who headed the most important and influential conservative networks in the world and are so rich in personal wealth that by their own admittance in print, they bought entire newspaper and magazine groups THAT MADE comnercial LOSSES, just to get leverage on their conservative media agenda.
So a small donation of a tax deductible million dollard to the PT us not farfetched. To the old PT/WCG I 'd expect tens of millions of donations to support the conservative Californian, governor Ronald Reagan and American Empire foreign agenda cause.
Nck
Nck 3:37 pm
Yeah, fine, it's not the first time that anyone has purchased a paper or media outlet to serve and further their own political/financial interests.
All I'm suggesting is that the PCG leadership as I remember it, with the "we don't get involved in the politics of this world" directive would be unlikely to accept any kind of formal alliance with such individuals.
If you have factual information to the contrary, kindly state the source.
6:32
They work together with them on many official projects.
Just as HWA worked with the Rothschildts.
Why do you think a fool like Tkach would have been invited on the Yaght Brittania with a lot of British nobility. Because special Opps HWA had established those connections for Israel before him.
HWA's work is ALL OUT in the open.
I cannot verify if the MILLIONS poured into PCG are from those individuals I cited.
nck
6:32
Oklahoma is the ONLY State where all 70 counties voted for Trump and believe that the elections are stolen.
"we are not involved" yeah right.
nck
Nck 8:56 am
Correlation is not causation.
But to even suggest there’s a correlation between 70 counties voting Republican because of the influence of a small church is a stretch at best.
Oklahoma has long been one of the most conservative states in the union. And there are plenty of churches and Christians other than the PCG who would gladly side with Republicans over the Democrats in the last election on virtually every issue.
Is nck on drugs ?
Whilst I can see Herbert Armstrong being a bit player of (CIA guinea pig) out in the field during the late 1940's and 1950's, but I think it is pushing it with the idea of the Roschilds.
C'mon when did Herbert Armstrong ever attend Bohemian Grove ? Did he ever stay at the Roschilds many holiday mansions? Nor did he hobnob with the right people. Not really.
The is no real events to point Herbert W Armstrong being a main player. He most probably was an amusement to the higher ups.
No doubt WCG and Herbert had their uses to those who control, but now the splinters wouldn't even get on their radar.
Anon 8:16 am
Is nck on drugs ?
Yeah those posts smack of the worst kind of conspiracy theory sentiment and aren’t grounded in any rational set of facts.
Hello 8:12
No,the other way round. PCG is catering its surroundings aswell as vice versa ideologically. Just as HWA catered the 7th economic power of the World, the State of California and its Kitchen Cabinet Governor becoming President.
8:16
I'm glad we agree on most.
The Rotchild thing I refer to the digs co sponsored often with Rotchilds snd politically charged for a nation whose right to exist is still under debate.
Who payed for all of Israels early government buildings like the Knesset? And who were present at the Brittania late eighties? Who payed for Hebrew University? Who sponsored the largest excavations around the Temple Mount cementing a nations identity that was looking for a common identity?
Anyway, we seem to agree on more than most, but I guess you are new here and not been following my 20 year rant on "bay of pigs" radio swan, european pirate radio largest sponsor as a cia special opp as academically researched Raders speech to the combined armed forces of the Philipines as the largest CIA opp and Egypt having been largest recipient of US foreign aid and the Armstrong as special friends and donors to its leaders, a Thai king with American citizenship crying on HWA shoulder, Vietnam war, CIA drug money flow from Northern Thailand etcetc etc
Nck
8:16
It's really not that hard. It's ALL published and in print. It's just thst 99.99 percent of people here don't have the trained eye to see it ehen HWA writes about visiting a, world leader and presenting presents talking about his, hardships as a leader while just 5 years before had 1 million communists killed with the implicit and perhaps explicit consent of the CIA.
Who the families of the members of the Japanese diet/sons were within the power structure of Japan and what dealings they had in flying to Kuwait in the GII. Well GWB senior head of the CIA later in Gulf One made Japan msin sponsor of Gulf War one. A war that cost theUSA nothing and made money after f16 sales to saudi arabia, whose leaders hwa had already met in 1947.
South Africa acquiring nuclear weapons from Israel? Direct flights in print announced to you biweekly, from Pretoria foreign office straight to Begin, who said Mr Armstrong can always wake me up while interrupting a cabinet meeting in jerusalem to drive to tel aviv to pick hwa up. That doesn't sound like a photo opp does it? GII flying from Damascus without clearance, flying over Jordan valley escorted by Syrian mig on one side and israeli on the other to speak to british national king hussein, married to an american...... Yeah discussing schools for the handicapped, right on........
Nck
Yep.
I'm so right always.
Just reading an article on how Trump just declared his return to the Presidency in August 2021.AND HOW SMALL CONSERVATIVE NEWSOUTLETS ARE CRUCIAL TOWARD THAT GOAL.
Nck
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