Reports indicate that Sheldon Monson, a leader within the Church of God (COG) community, issued a call to other COG groups to join him and his ministers in an exorcism for a church leader’s child, allegedly possessed by a demon at Lone Star Campgrounds. The United Church of God (UCG) was the only group to respond. Despite UCG’s involvement, a day of prayer and fasting by the Church of God Assembly, and the efforts of Monson’s team, the exorcism was unsuccessful.
These two comments just came through:
Sheldon contacted ministry from multiple splinter groups to ask for help with the exorcism and to request prayers and fasting. A minister from UCG offered help (bless him for crossing counter group lines). Westin 100% knew.
Mark 16:17: Jesus states that believers will cast out demons in his name.
Sheldon and his minions have failed to remove the demon after attempting to for days so we can clearly discern that they are not "believers". We already knew that of course but it must come as a shock to him and the people who blindly follow his racist cult teachings. I'm sure they are all meeting now to try to figure out who to blame for their failed attempts. Not one of them has the depth of character to self examine and find themselves lacking.
No one can deny that the Churches of God are ever boring!
59 comments:
I wonder if they contacted CGI and that thread. If this action was limited to post-86 splits, then it will show that COGA treasures Armstrong HW before their faith and this young person.
I will say this: If this report on its face is substantively true, then it is strong proof hat these people really believe it’s actually a demon possession. They wouldn’t do that if they didn’t believe.
Now, to be completely calloused and cold-blooded, maybe this will lead to some mainstream public exposure. The more that ACOGs — particularly post-86 ACOGs — can be linked together, and thus to Armstrong HW/WCG, the more discredited in their outreach they will be and can be. The quicker a person seeing their messaging connects them to Herbie the End Time Pervy, the less likely they are to get caught in the bait-and-switch draw, because that person will know what they are getting into.
Let's give some respect to the minister's son who isn't buckling under the pressure to conform to the cult's demands. Once he is out and on his own, he'll have a much happier and successful life, both spiritually and materially, and won't have to try to shock his father into submission by acting out so dramatically.
As for the likelihood of "possession" I hope we all remember that the "possessed" kid's father had his own mis-spent youth as a close associate of the wild young son of a WCG/GCG/LCG evangelist, and could himself have been suspected of "having a demon" based on some of his youthful activities. Maybe Sheldon should look into the possibility of a family demon being involved in all of this?
Monson's group is financially unstable and facing lots of internal dissension. This could be a first step toward COGASS assimilating into UCG.
In prayer for ANY person in COG's who might be demon possessed.
All this talk about Camp Lone Star has COG's (and sadly, even LifeNets) ignoring Camp Mystic.
Dear Armstrong COgs: re-examine your beliefs??...........Feasts ...........
Ex 23:14-16 lists 3 Hebrew chags (feasts): Nisan 14-20 (Eze 45:21), 8th "Sunday"after Nisan 14, Tishri 15-21.
Lev 23 lists Hebrew moeds (fixed times; "feasts" - v. 2 a mistranslation): the 3 feasts, weekly sabbath, annual sabbaths on Tishri 1, 10, 22.
What they need to do is stop their voodoo and take the child in for a mental health exam. That way, the child will be isolated from its parents and can speak freely. There is something going on at home that is not healthy. Plus, the chances are that the COGA has made the child's life a living hell.
Ahh, there's that "love" LCG and Weston are famously known for. Or should I say infamously known for (a lack thereof). How sad when a child is in distress (be it physical, mental, or spiritual) and you're being begged for prayers for that child, you can't search within your heart to find the humanity, warmth, love, and compassion to set aside your ego and reach out to offer support and kindness.
Exactly
God will cast it out.
I'm surprised Sheldon Monson actually communicated with others in several COGs. He is known for his official policy of absolutely not wanting to talk with anyone not in his group. Used to be outsiders of LCG when he was with us. Now it's his group. I believe his very fine parents in law were quite saddened about this unchristian treatment. Mr. Bryce also eventually came to have a similar approach, not at first but eventually he did. I wonder if Sheldon will smarten up and be more outreaching across COG lines after this all, or will he slip back into his old doctrinal policy ways.
In the other post about this, someone pointed out that the "UCG minister" who helped with the exorcism was actually an old friend Sheldon ordained in COGA. UCG doesn't automatically recognize COGA ordinations, so I wonder whether the "UCG minister" was really just a UCG member who is recognized as a minister by COGA but not by UCG, which has an elaborate and time-consuming credentialing process for members who were ordained by other splinter groups.
I'm thinking that the owners of this camp most likely generate the majority of their annual revenue during the summer months.
If I were in their shoes, and some religious quack-a-doodle do spread malicious rumors that one of his members kids got a demon from the camp, causing an immediate decrease in revenue, I'd sue the quack.
If this episode were to be treated as a scientific experiment, it's actually a good thing that Jerry Weston greenlit the LCG camp. We'll know sooner or later, but I seriously doubt that there will be additional possessions throughout the summer, in spite of all the ACOG superstitions. i don't even believe this one is one. Years ago, I knew some kids who started a Satanic rock band, and called it "Blasphemy". Eventually, they got it out of their system, lost interest, and they've been responsible adults for decades now. Without any demons!
Can we please have empathy for this child? Please stop discussing this topic and remove the posts on this topic. He’s a minor. One day after he gets help, he will be able to see what a bunch of insensitive gossiping pathetic people you all are. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. What you put out there on the web will get back to him. I can only imagine the trauma he’s feeling already, and these disgusting disgraceful discussions are not going to help in his healing process. Why don’t we protect him from further damage by removing these posts. All of them.
Empathy? Where was Sheldon Monson's empathy when he broadcast to all the camp and the mailed the same damn letter to the church detailing the issue, naming the child? Then he called a church wide fast where the entire church heard about it, to fast this past Monday. If you had paid attention instead of having a knee-jerk reaction, you would see that most here have empathy for the child and wish they would take him to legitimate doctors for an evaluation. This is the church trying to cover up an issue that proper medical evaluation and treatment could take care of.
First, He is an adult not a minor. Second, as stated in the last reply it was Sheldon that put his name out there for the world to see.
This "child" is 18 or 19 and his reputation has absolutely been destroyed BY THE CHURCH. He will be treated like a leper for the rest of his life. Why don't you write racist Sheldon and express your disgust? At least Banned had the decency to hide his name. None of the church members who were asked to pray and fast needed to know his name. God knew. Does it not bother you in the least that they had zero respect for his privacy? Does it not bother you in the least about the future shame that he will experience when he is no doubt shunned by these fuck-tards???
I agree 6:35. Sheldon smeared the children's reputation in the church forever! He will never be treated the same again. Church members will shun the child, and his friends will steer clear of him. If they had done this quietly and taken him straight in for a medical evaluation, then a lot of the nonsense would have been eliminated. Armstrongism's irrational fear of therapists and psychiatrists is disgusting. It's a control issue to keep members reliant upon the magical voodoo of the elders. They have literally fucked this kid up for life!
Does anyone have a copy of the letter from Monson saying the exorcism did not work?
6.55, Armstrongisms fear of therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists is understandable. They fear their members will be informed by these professionals that they are members of a high control, abusive cult. They might even be advised to read books on assertiveness, which explains that they have rights.
In fairness, the same goes for all contemporary Kenneth Copeland Christianity. They all use the same playbook, and their book differs significantly from the bible.
I agree wholeheartedly with 6:26 call to take these posts down. This is a private matter amongst ministry and should have been left so for the childs sake.
So, we now know that the “child” is actually a legal adult, and the “UCG minister” may actually be COGA-ordained but UCG-fellowshipping, and not necessarily UCG-credentialed. Processing… Processing…
“B” can tell all these people to take a hike if he chooses. If they are holding him against his will, then we will have a chance at civil liability and criminal charges against the people involved AND possibly the COGA itself. Which would be awesome, by the way. The UCG connection — which is to say, connection to other ACOGs — is apparently much weaker. However, it is not nonexistent. This could become the biggest exposure of Armstrongism in the general news cycle since Terry Ratzman (sp?). That event quickly faded in the news because the victims were White Christians, and the Sikh temple in the same state was shot up by an idiot who thought they were Muslims, and used a more un-PC weapon. (I have no doubt a lot of Armstrongists were thrilled about that, viewing it as an act of God to “save the reputation of His Church.”) Maybe this one will be different.
This could be quite useful indeed. People with actual knowledge of the event have a real chance here by reporting it to local media in the area of the camp, and where the young man currently is. Without that, this is a little more than a developing story on an agenda-driven blog.
Now, as for empathy toward the young man and his reputation in his fellowship: He’s an adult. If it’s actually something physiological, he will readily be able to explain it, and most will understand it and support him. Perhaps the people who don’t understand it will help by their attitude expose to him the fail of Armstrongism. If it’s a genuine psychological difficulty, people are just going to view that the way they view that. It’s not necessarily a matter of religion to see that sort of thing in less than sympathetic terms. That’s just reality. If he was just being a jerk – which frankly seems a little less likely, with him being an adult — then he actually deserves a little bit of negative feedback. And in that one-in-infinity chance that this is actually demonstrably demonic… Well, this could have ramifications far beyond the Herbie cult.
One final observation: The original letter refers to “his dad.” It does give an impression that the subject was a minor. But there are people on here saying everybody in that circle knows who “B” is, and that he is the son of a minister. Thus, those people on here knew he was not a “child.” That information should’ve been put out here from the beginning. I am all for playing up negative stories to attack Armstrongism. But exaggerating to the point of substantively altering the situation only hurts credibility. And that altering can occur passively by withholding information, which some here apparently did. Please, most of us are on the same side in this regard. Let’s keep the facts as clear and accurate as possible.
Just tell the brat to either chill out or face the possibility of being consigned to the Rubber Room in the nuthouse if he doesn't get his act together and see how quickly the 'demons' flee.
I agree, Lee! If you are a young legally adult person, you can walk away from your present social circle, a rotten fu€king cult, your messed up family, and everyone you know, and start an entirely new life! Some bullshit label of demon possession does not have to follow you around for as long as you walk the surface of the planet. You walk away with both middle digits rigid and in everyone's face. In fact that's the only effective way to leave a cult and let everyone know you mean it. And then you keep your nose clean, work hard, and make repairs. Go on with your life and don't go back!
That is, of course, if you are just a "normal", tormented kid stuck in something your parents laid on you, yet have all your mental faculties in place and are of average or better intelligence. We don't know these things to be true, although we assume them to be so because by all accounts the guy was normal up until church summer camp. Of course if the "ministers" can't control him, they're going to assume he's demon possessed. To hell with them all!
This may be an extreme case, but it is very typical of what happens as a result of Armstrongism, which is not a normal church that nourishes the soul! I hope lots of people see this for what it really is, and leave "the church" (a euphemism if there ever was one).
BB
In the past I have seen instances where a worldwide/ spin off minister claimed an individual was demon possessed but it seemed in reality the person may have confronted the minister on an issue or resisted conforming with the minister's edict and labeled as such. Maybe he denied that HWA was God's end time apostle.i bet Dorothy would also.
I like your thinking, Ronco, but it’s harder than it used to be to get people committed to the loony bin. A 96-hour involuntary holding, though, might be enough to scare off Legion and Company.
Lol I remember an episode of a circa 1990 syndicated TV series, “The Judge,” where a medium started channeling some spirit on the witness stand. The judge told lawyer to instruct his client to stop, but the lawyer played along with the client. The judge then addressed the supposed spirit, explaining that if the spirit doesn’t leave the medium immediately, the medium will be given a $1000 fine. That medium suddenly jerked in her chair, playing dumb to the whole event. (Yes, that’s how my mind associates things, and yes, I watched way too much TV in my early years.)
It’s an all or nothing with this guy. If he’s anywhere nearly as cultified into Armstrongism as I was at that age, he wouldn’t be acting this way on his own. So that’s not what is keeping him there and experiencing what these ministers are putting on him.
But honestly, with the recent clarifications, I am questioning this whole thing. No source for the letter, and my one internal ACOG connection is either ignorant or playing dumb. IF it’s real, then we have great potential here. If this turns out to be a load of BS, then the moderators here need to vet stories better. (And please, moderators, do you include more links to original sources.)
I am so reminded of SEP when a (local) top WCG minister in charge of the Youth Program had left the Church and we were all warned for him showing up unanounced at Camp .....one of the charges was that he was posessed........I guess he was just disappointed with the eary Tkach changes and then had a mental breakdown.......The Minister giving the sermon occassionally had met demons he told us often......mostly when visiting prospective members in Africa.......this reminds me the former Minister in charge of the Youth program was black...
nck
Disgusting to see UCG ministry and Pastor wives writing out curse words.
I’m so sorry. That 3:58 AM comment was totally wrong. I know this site isn’t loaded with UCG ministry undercover. My mommy told me I wasn’t supposed to make those kinds of accusations, or else I would never be able to live in her basement again. Please just disregard it.
Fake comment. You are a utter disgrace to the UCG ministry. Say it to my face coward.
Hiding your wickedly, evil and narcissist character behind a blog. Tommorrow you'll be in church with a bible in your hand. But no one likes you. Not really. They all pretend they do. All.
I always have disregarded it, 418. But, these last two posts of yours are weird.
Outrageous fraud 4:18 Anonymous* What a wicked liar you are. I will not forget your cruelty. You ought watch that hate filled, cruel heart of yours for it will turn on you.
So let me get this straight: for decades, ministers across the sprawling patchwork of COGs have been busy disfellowshipping, marking, excommunicating, double-dog disfellowshipping, and generally treating each other like doctrinal lepers. Entire church groups have treated one another like spiritual Typhoid Marys — untouchable, unclean, and not even worthy of a potluck invitation. Members have been declared persona non grata more times than a heretic at a holy roller tent revival.
And yet… poof! Along comes a funeral, a wedding, or—better yet—some sort of emergency “call to action,” and suddenly everyone’s singing kumbaya like it’s the Acts 2 church reunion tour?
Let me ask the obvious: do disfellowshipment orders come with expiration dates now? Are we talking spiritual parole here? “You’ve served your 7-10 years in the Outer Darkness. You’re now eligible for reintegration, pending a probationary sermon and one potluck under supervision.”
It's truly remarkable. One minute someone’s spiritually radioactive, and the next, there they are—shoulder to shoulder with the brethren at a wedding reception, hugging it out over little paper plates of Costco sheet cake.
Maybe the unwritten rule is this: no matter how deep the schism, all grudges are suspended when there’s free food or an open mic.
Frankly, it is statistically impossible to have been in the COG world for 50 years and not to have been disfellowshipped, marked, or at least side-eyed suspiciously at Feast services. If you haven’t been at least mildly shunned, you're either lying or you’re still on your first feast brochure.
Let’s just be honest: in COGland, disfellowshipping is less like being cast into outer darkness and more like being put on ecclesiastical timeout until the next potluck or shared cause makes us all forget who’s supposed to hate whom.
At this point, we might as well hand out “Hello, My Name Is: Previously Disfellowshipped” badges at every event.
Unity through mutual amnesia, folks. It's the COG way.
What did I ever do to you? All I did was express sorrow over that stupid, asinine comment at 3:58 AM. As for being in church tomorrow, I’m not even a Christian Bible believer. I won’t be in church tomorrow, though I do respect many who will be — particularly those who do not eschew their Civic Duty and thus reject a certain child-molesting pervert. And the ones that do fail in that regard, I hope they will see the light.
Since I know nothing about you, or even if you have posted here before, let me ask you: Do you agree with me that making comments like the one at the 3:58 AM point is stupid and asinine, and really should lead the person making such to feel ashamed of living in their mommy’s basement?
I saw this on FB (I did take out his name and family names)
Mr Sheldon Monson human leader in the Church of God of Assembly has this message for all of us:
I request you pray and fast for teenager B.. (who became demon possessed at camp) and his family. Your prayers and fasting are greatly appreciated. This fiery trial (I Peter 4:12) has been physically and emotionally draining for Pastor..and their children and families. During the last several days (both at camp and in their hometown) many demons were cast out – yet one blasphemous evil spirit remains. God has heard the prayers of His people; He has seen their tears and noted their fasting. He said that strong demons come out by prayer and fasting (Matthew 17:21). The members and the ministers have done what God requires up till now – but we must continue to pray and have faith that God will complete what He has started. He has made it clear that no man has the power to make the demons leave – and that He will be the one to remove them in His time and in His way. When this is over the glory will go to Him – not any man. God removes demons and He heals the sick. The ministers are just tools in His hand that do what He has commanded us to do. God is the one with the power to answer our requests. Sometimes the healing is immediate, sometimes He casts out the demons immediately, and sometimes we must patiently wait. We must not doubt, we must not waiver. Doubt is a faith killer (Matthew 14:28-33).
726, I thought you were both 358 and 418 because they were so close in time to one another. Just unclear what you were intending to say.
Precisely, 9:48 AM. Everybody calling themselves, “Anonymous” just breeds utter confusion, not to mention destroying credibility, due to lack of accountability. And you, of course, are part of it.
Folks, stop using it. At the very least, make up unique handles like on CB radio, like Byker Bob and a few others. And establish a convention where we all respect them. Moderators, please consider removing that option.
Except the guy who keeps saying everybody is fake. Just ignore his BS.
All that said, at least that one person is adding an asterisk to their use of the term. In fact, that person seems like a very bright and concerned person. I have great respect for that person. The rest of you could learn from that person. He truly impressed me. You know, I might actually know that person. But what are the odds of that?
OK, I think we know that this event is a fraud. This site has already had to delete an “anonymous” comment about a Facebook post. There may have been some kernal of truth at the beginning, but I seriously seriously doubt it. If someone has evidence that I’m wrong, please present it in the form of either a legitimate link or a comment that is not labeled “Anonymous” or a variation there of.
Moderators, PLEASE develop a fact-checking system for events like this.
The UCG involvement turned out to be a COGA-ordained dude who was a fellowshipping with UCG, and probably not even credentialed buy them yet.
The whole story is a hoax. Maybe there’s some kernel of truth, but probably not. I stand ready to be proven wrong on this.
I am the fellow who posted the 4:18 AM comment. To the person who posted the 6:52 AM comment, I am proud of my cruelty towards you. I am not a Christian, and that’s not bound by its silly principles. I can be cruel.
Plus, that wonderful man Lee Walker seems to like me. He seems like a great guy, and definitely a lot smarter than everybody else on here. You all should listen to him.
And the 6:52 AM guy should move out of his mommy’s basement.
I agree with you, all this posting is very insensitive and whomever did this is going to face God's correction.
He's an adult
7:26 a high ranking, sarcastic and cruel UCG Pastor. See what the UCG members have to put up with.
Some of us are interested in getting to the bottom of this, because it could either be an egregious case of abuse by a cult leader, or it could be a mental health issue, or it could simply be someone who has enough of arbitrary authority fighting back with a personal level of strength with which church authority is not accustomed to being confronted. All the members know that you only ask your minister "softball" questions, and you tip toe around him very gently even asking those!
According to their own doctrinal approach, if "God's ministers" can't invoke the power of Jesus Christ to cast out a demon, their failure is most likely in failing to realize that the problem is not a demon. It is something else. Yet, consulting healthcare professionals would be an admission of their own fallibility, and in their minds, would diminish their authority. Bit fragile there, guys!
Unfortunately, this discussion has attracted the attention of our normal collection of disruptive kids in the classroom, one or more of whom suffers from a mental disorder called "paranoia". He, she, or whatever its pronouns might be, imagines/fears that one ACOG minister or his wife is present and creates all of the non-anonymous personalities. I'm pretty sure people do create temporary cybercharacters on occasion, but the regulars are not all the same schizophrenic individual. It would be impossible to keep the nuances of each separate, and some of us would recognize the lapses. The big rookie mistake is for one to make all of one's characters think and speak as one's self. Or to accidently allow that to bleed subtly through.
I almost wish a reporter would glom on to this. At least he'd go about uncovering the facts. It might also make people who were making a kid look crazy look pretty ridiculous and crazy themselves! Wouldn't that be one gas of a payback???
BB
Totally agree Tonto. A Christian is one who follows Christ rather than some morally compromised "Christian" organization. So it's a spiritual red flag if a long time member hasn't been disfellowshipped or had one's conversion questioned.
I put the young man’s name in Facebook and the post I shared earlier that you thought wasn’t real comes right up. I do not know DavidJohn Harris but he shared that on a Facebook page called Let there be light
I don’t know that page either. I didn’t grow up in “the church” but have been a member of Living and COGA. Quickly realized the way people idolize HWA and that just is sick. Anyway, I was just trying to share an update that I saw
I have copies of the letters and as the above person mentioned @ 2:33, this is on Facebook, with full names mentioned. I originally deleted the person's name when I thought it was a young camper, but word is that this person is between 17-18 years old, and the fact that Sheldnon has made the person's name and the family name public, many. many times!
11:53. If this is insensitive, then start with Sheldon Monson and COGA members who have broadcast this all over the place, including several places on Facebook. You complainers do not really care about Jason, but are more concerned that the church will be seen in a bad light. It deserves to be! If this is the thing that brings it down, so let it be done!
Yes, as I have said, somebody with actual knowledge needs to get this to the media.
NO2HWA, I see that the Facebook post is showing now. I don’t know if you restored it or if it simply wasn’t showing for me. I found it and submitted this comment:
“So people understand, that church is an Armstrongist offshoot — that is, they are followers of the late Herbert Armstrong. There is genuine question as to whether young man, who is at least 17 and the son of one of the denomination’s leading ministers, is actually demon possessed or having a medical/psychological problem. I could also simply be that he was questioning the beliefs of their church. It is not unheard of for Armstrongist churches to label as demonic someone acting out against the beliefs of their spiritual founder.”
https://www.facebook.com/1415291192107787/posts/mr-sheldon-monson-human-leader-in-the-church-of-god-of-assembly-has-this-message/3702934986676718/
I submitted the following comment on that Facebook post:
“So people understand, that church is an Armstrongist offshoot — that is, they are followers of the late Herbert Armstrong. There is genuine question as to whether young man, who is at least 17 and the son of one of the denomination’s leading ministers, is actually demon possessed or having a medical/psychological problem. I could also simply be that he was questioning the beliefs of their church. It is not unheard of for Armstrongist churches to label as demonic someone acting out against the beliefs of their spiritual founder.”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1415291192107787/posts/3702934986676718/
Corrected link, if the other one doesn’t work: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1415291192107787/posts/3702934986676718/
There certainly should be repurcussions for Sheldon Manson over this! I'm thinking maybe all confidence destroyed in him?
The guy at “Let There Be Light” is actually a COGA member. He explains reposting the email (link above) to a critic thusly:
“Mr Monson sent an email out to me and others in Church of God Assembly. Within that email there is no mention it was only for my eyes and neither was it mentioned to keep it secret to any of the other recipients. When prayers and fasting is requested of us it is encumbent upon those recipients to ask of others within the Church of God to pray and maybe fast with us. That is what I have done. I do not see how this action of a call to prayer has heaped a burden on a young person. Your question of me "What is wrong with you, David???" I would respond to with lots of things but I do not class the asking of members of "Let There Be Light" to pray for the healing of a young man to be one of them.”
—
Odd thing is, I got a notification that I have received permission to post and comment on that group, but he is hiding the comment I made on that post (again, see above).
Some clarification. I am not a member of Sheldon's group, but I have known him and others in the past. This situation is real, not fake, but I don't know if it's demon possession, mental illness, brain tumor (I hope the hospital does a thorough exam), or even something like a rare encephalitis. "B" is probably 19 (or close to it) and has finished his first year of college. I have heard some things about this situation that I am not going to post because I am unsure of the facts other than what I am saying here. But I do want to say that whatever is actually happening, I'm sure it is extremely frightening to the family and we should have compassion for them.
Lurker, you at least don’t say “Anonymous.” So just to be clear, is it confirmed that the guy was indeed acting cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, and not just mouthing off against Armstrongism? (And no, they are not the same thing.) Remember, God is watching your answer.
Thanks, Lurker. Your handle is familiar, as there have been insightful posts from you in the past.
The problem is, Sheldon published too much information (young man's identity) in some areas, and not enough in others. So we have rampant speculation. Even so, I believe most of those commenting did display compassion for the victim or subject of the post. What kind of human being would not? As usual, however, we question the arbitrary authority we've all experienced,, the superstition, and the carefully taught mistrust for the branch of medical science which could at the very least be of help.
More information can be of great help here. I know for a fact that some here will actually be praying for that young man. I suspect they are already are, and this is in spite of the fact that many of us know to expect the worst where Armstrongism is concerned. The law of averages alone shows that at least sometimes, they have to be innocent in spite of what we may be thinking.
~Miguel de la Rodente
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