The Demographics of Salvation
The Puzzle of Barth, Armstrong and Election
By Scout
Back in 1995, I was fairly well down the road towards leaving Armstrongism. My journey was done with some trepidation. I did not trust mainstream Christianity. I had spent years believing it was grossly pagan. It made me a little sick to think that I had unwittingly taken a stand against genuine Christianity by following cult “theology.” But I did all right with the transition for a little while. And then I ran into Calvinism.
TULIP especially bothered me. This is an acronym for the fundamental soteriological beliefs of Calvinism, including the belief in Election. The U in TULIP stands for Unconditional Election. Suddenly my interest in Christianity waned. Picture a balloon deflating and looking sad and flaccid. This was because Calvinism was at the forefront of the Protestant Reformation and Reformed theology advanced the idea that all things are pre-determined by God. We humans are all like puppets dancing on strings with no free will. I felt that Calvinism was just as much of a cult as Armstrongism. One had to deal with it. It needed a disposition in my mind before I could proceed with Christianity. I eventually arrived at a resolution over some years but the Calvinist view of Election had been the stickiest wicket.
Now I believe that Calvinist Unconditional Election is right in a narrow but important way. I believe that Christians are elect in the Calvinist sense that God chose them before they ever lived and pre-destined them to be in the First Resurrection. That may sound like I made it up so it would be good to look at some scriptures.
The Scriptures
Here are the scriptures from the Epistle to the Ephesians. They are extraordinary:
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen (eklegomai, the verb from which the adjective eklektos is derived) us in him before the foundation of the world (Cosmos), that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated (proorizo) us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will” (KJV, Ephesians 1:3-5)
To demonstrate this is not just Greek-influenced Pauline theology, we have the following statement from the very Jewish Peter:
“Elect (eklektos) according to the foreknowledge (prognosis) of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:” (KJV,1 Peter 1:2).
Both of these scriptures speak of the members of the Body of Christ. Paul and Peter use such heady terms as elect, foreknowledge and predestination. Jesus speaks of the Elect as a separate population with a privileged understanding of the Gospel. But through Paul and Peter the origination of the Elect is explained. And the amazing statement is that those people who are now in the Body of Christ, the church, were elected to this state before the foundation of the Cosmos. This means that somehow they had to exist before the foundation of the Cosmos. And we know from the Book of Revelation that Christians will be in the first resurrection, will be priests and will reign with Christ for eternity. And important to say, for reasons you will read later, that the non-Elect will not have these experiences.
So, what we have is a demographic statement. The Elect is a population of people chosen prior to the creation of the Cosmos to be servants of God and to be deployed on earth at various times and places as suits God’s plans (Church in the Wilderness or New Testament Church). While that may seem to be a straightforward characterization, Election can be a complicated issue that raises many questions. I am going to now briefly examine and question the views on Election of Karl Barth and Herbert W. Armstrong (HWA). I have chosen these two because their views will cover the various denominations that stem from the Armstrongist Worldwide Church of God.
Karl Barth and Election – Elect through the Vicarious Humanity of Christ
About twelve years ago, I encountered the view of Karl Barth on Election. I did not readily understand it and I still regard it as being novel. I would not assert that Barth’s view is in error but I do regard it as not being exegetically as strong as some of the views found in mainstream Christianity, for instance. Briefly, Barth regards the Triune God as the Elector and Jesus as the Elected Man. Jesus then mediates Election to those who follow him. This fits well with the doctrine of the Vicarious Humanity or Christ which centers on Jesus and which I adhere to. Those who follow Jesus were called and predestined as stated in Ephesians 1 in Barth’s view. He just has a novel way in which Election is applied. But I have a problem with Barth’s view.
The Barthian approach seems to be that everyone who comes to the mediating Christ becomes a part of the Elect, whether in the First Resurrection or the Second Resurrection. I believe that departs from the intent of scripture. I think that people who are in the Elect become Christians during this Age and rise in the First Resurrection (Rev 20:4-5). They form the cohort of the chosen. Are they somehow inherently different from other people? I don’t know. And the people who rise up in the Second Resurrection are non-Elect. Election applies to particular people and is not universal.
I do believe that the Second Resurrection is also a pathway to salvation. To make the mediation of Election a part of the salvific process for everyone is to assert that Election is focused on general salvation when it is actually focused on the First Resurrection. This creates a demographic issue: the population of the saved is misidentified as the Elect when only part of that population is Elect. Among the saved, the Elect will be priests reigning with Christ. (A mistranslation has it that some will be kings. But the phrase kings and priests really should be translated as “kingdom of priests.” One might argue that in a theocracy it makes scant difference.)
Herbert W. Armstrong and Election – It’s about When One is Called
HWA refers to Predestination rather than Election. I could not find a reference to Election in the writing HWA personally authored but my research efforts were only moderate. Predestination is near enough to Election for this purpose. Both ideas are rooted in God choosing.
I believe that overall, HWA interprets Election accurately. But there is a nuance that I think should be addressed. HWA wrote, “Predestination has to do with BEING CALLED. Not with being saved or lost” (HWA, “Predestination – Does the Bible Teach It”, Ambassador College, 1957). My interpretation of what HWA is advocating is that a believer is predestined by God before the foundation of the Cosmos to be called at a certain time and nothing further. At the time you are called, then your salvation becomes a matter of grace, faith and your generation of righteous works – the typical Armstrongist view – Jesus plus your own efforts to qualify. The soteriology is wrong but the framework of events seems to reflect scripture. But this is not quite the scenario that Paul described in Romans 8:29-30:
“For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn within a large family. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.”
First, God is doing this. This is not something that people choose to do. And the implication is that God does this without loss of anyone who is a member of the Elect. People do not choose to become members of the Body of Christ; they are called to it. We might say: the set of people God predestined is the same set he called and the same set he justified and the same set he glorified. This is a tight sequence and it is difficult to exegete it any other way. I am not sure why glorification, which is future, is mentioned like it has already taken place. This may simply mean planned glorification rather than actual glorification.
What this means is that predestination doesn’t just extend as far as calling and no further as HWA asserts. It means that predestination is the first step in an Election sequence that runs all the way to salvation. And it is the same population throughout. Nobody is lost. I know there are examples in the New Testament of people falling away after they apparently became Christians. All I can think is that we do not have their full story and God must have recovered them later. Armstrongism would permit some attrition of the original population as the process goes forward. Armstrongism does assert a hell in which annihilation happens to some people.
The Upshot
I must label this writing an opinion piece. It can’t be really anything else. Election has been the subject of debate since the late 4th and early 5th centuries. I am looking at only a little part of the debate in my essay. My goal was to raise a couple of salient issues. What is important to see is that different theories of Election can result in different populations of the Elect, with regard to both size and profile. The scripture goes only so far in developing the idea of the Elect and then trails off. As always, we see through a glass darkly. Yet, Election is an extraordinary doctrine in Christian belief. Karl Barth believes it is the central doctrine of Christian belief because it is about nothing less than God and his Will for humanity. But it does not get much attention. In my decades in the Worldwide Church of God, I do not recall ever hearing a sermon on Election. Personally, I think the belief in love beats Election by a ways. I believe that Election, however, is very important and, without a doubt, deserves much more analysis and air time than it gets.
12 comments:
Thanks for the good article and the effort of putting it together.
it does show the elect were predestined before the creation. The Elect seem to have existed in the mind, purpose, and decree of God before creation, but it does not seem to mean they did so as conscious beings.“Elect according to the foreknowledge of God” (1 Pet 1:2).
Whew! Will have to read again when it’s not so late. Good stuff Scout.
When I started attending services, I had doubts on many points of Christianity. But I faithfully acted on the parts that made sense to me. God responded by blessing me and answering my prayers. And it turned out that my doubts were warranted since contemporary Christianity is significantly Pharisaic.
But I find it hard to understand how after decades, people are still struggling with fundamentals.
Or, ..."chosen us in Him" .......according to the plan of salvation in Christ Jesus determined before the foundation of the world, not that anyone is chosen before they were born. Also 1Peter 1:20.
Scout wrote: "...HWA refers to Predestination rather than Election. I could not find a reference to Election in the writing HWA personally authored but my research efforts were only moderate. Predestination is near enough to Election for this purpose. Both ideas are rooted in God choosing..."
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Election is mentioned in HWA's Mystery of the Ages book a couple of times:
“…When I came among the brethren of the Church of God, there were
questions among the leaders respecting the nature of Church
organization. At that time, 1927, the Church was organized on the
pattern of a biannual general conference. Each local congregation
could send one member to the biannual general conference and thus had
one vote in election of officers, questions of Church doctrine and
Church policy. A local congregation could consist of as few as five
members.…”
“…There will be no election campaigns. No campaign fund-raising dinners.
No dirty political campaigns, where each candidate attempts to put
himself forward in the most favorable light, defaming, denouncing,
discrediting his opponents. No time will be wasted in mudslinging
campaigns in the lust for power.…”
However, yes, election in these 2 instances has a different meaning from what Scout mentions.
Over my quarter of a century time associated with the WCG, sermons/sermonettes have made mention of election and the elect; however, as with HWA's opinion, it was always about someone qualifying/earning salvation by works of SELF. Even when grace was mentioned, it was still by works, and many would still end up in some lake of fire.
HWA taught what he knew; he did not know all things. He knew a lot about milk (e.g. God's laws -Heb 6:1-2), virtually no strong meat, and was familiar with lots of junk food prophecies. The splinters (careless hirelings and members of the former WCG) today, are all like babes still drinking the same milk and junk food...sort of stagnant in their thinking, stuck in the past, and that's okay; God allows lots of things in the lives of His Elect (Rev 2-3)...even Satan to mess around with all of them/us too.
Scout stated: "...I am not sure why glorification, which is future, is mentioned like it has already taken place..."
Scout may want to consider the following:
Romans 4:17 “(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.”
Eccl 3:15 “That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.”
God, no respecter of persons, has willed to save all mankind, and subsequently destroy Satan and his angels, and we are to be witnesses of those facts:
"I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when [there was] no strange [god] among you: therefore ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I [am] God." Isa 43:12
Will all humanity eventually acknowledge that the names of those of the election were already written into the Lamb's Book of Life, while the names of "the rest" of humanity will be found in another different book: the Book of Life?
Time will tell...
John
Anonymous 11:44 wrote, "...not that anyone is chosen before they were born."
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart…” (Jeremiah 1:5)
Some scholars view the Elect as a non-specific group of people. Others view Election as something that is personal. In my article and my personal belief, I side with the latter. I believe that Jeremiah is an example of someone who was Elect as a particular person. This is just to make it clear that it is a simple matter for God to conceive of a person and bring that person into existence, perhaps only as a specification in the mind of God; I really don’t know how and can only guess. My conjecture is that God created the individual pneuma before the foundation of the Cosmos and it only became conscious when instantiated as a human being according to God’s time and planning.
Why do I think this is a better explanation than the group theory, the theory that the Elect does not refer to individuals but to a group of people to be determined as events unfold? Because of the high and complex status accorded Election in scripture. The idea that long ago God decided there was going to be a group of people does not, for instance, warrant the concept of foreknowledge. Foreknowledge is a special spiritual phenomenon. It is not just a simple plan conceived of before the Cosmos was created. A simple plan to collect together a group of people one day does not seem to justify the high status of Election in scripture involving choosing, foreknowledge, predestination, justification and glorification.
Paul was not bashful about saying, “"But when God, who had set me apart before I was born and called me through his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me" (Galatians 1:5). Paul did not say, “God planned to set apart a group and I just happened to be one of them.” This individual Election in Galatians 1:5 I believe supports the other statements Paul makes about Election and renders up an individual rather than group meaning. Nowhere does Paul say “I was personally Elect but you guys are only Elect through a unparticular group membership.” A consistent meaning throughout is the strongest exegesis.
Scout
Scout
Another thought provoking post. The interesting thing about it for me is my Dad had similar views on the topic, our pre-existing before our calling. I never bought into it for I believed the scriptural basis for it was weak, nor was there any real intrinsic value. If we have no memory of the event, what good is it?
You do confirm a point of mine that we have sparred over in the past, being the elect (the individual members of the body of Christ) are in a category of their own, "a separate population with a privileged understanding of the gospel", as you put it.
The elect are a unique dispensation and classification of individuals who have a special relationship with God. They are a people called out for His name sake. God deals with them differently than His dealing with the nations (a collective).
The new testament was written to THEM and is about THEM!
Pauline theology applies to THEM!
This special calling in no way invalidates how God will deal with the collective masses of the Messianic age, using animal sacrifices and strict obedience to the law as educational tools for their learning and conversion.
At the 2nd resurrection, the new covenant will be extended to the children of Israel of the past, and the collective masses of both past and present. But they will NEVER be in the same catagory as God's privileged, the elect of God, joint heirs with Christ, the firstfruits from the dead. According to Scripture, that is the eternal plan of God.
After conception? Jer 1:5 is a reference to the womb, not to a Jeremiah thought before creation. The word "before" in Gal 1:15 is not in several translations or in the Greek.
Anonymous 11:14
"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth (KJV; Romans 9:11)."
I would agree that scholars vary on the interpretation of Galatians 1:15. But the question at issue in my comment is whether or not Election refers to a group or to individuals. (This too is controversial. I can only give you what I believe and why.) We already know that Paul believed that God Elected Christians before the foundation of the Cosmos from Ephesians 1. The question is, does God call an anonymous group or named individuals. These two approaches require much different interactions with time. In Romans 9:11, we find God electing two individuals not just generically but personally and into very specialized circumstances for a particular purpose. Further, we have a reference to people not having their names in the Book of Life from the foundation of the Cosmos in Revelation 17:8. This implies that there were people whose names WERE written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the Cosmos. We already know that some people are in the Book of Life from other scriptures but Revelation 17:8 gives us the time element: “from the foundation of the Cosmos” and this accords with Ephesians1. And a name is not just a moniker in the context of Revelation – a moniker that could be simply attached to anyone – just fill in the blank. A name is rather reflective of someone’s character, someone’s individuality.
Scout
Anon, aka Scout, Tuesday, May 19, 2026 at 3:04:06 PM PDT shared his beliefs with Anon 11:14.
[[......"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth (KJV; Romans 9:11)."
I would agree that scholars vary on the interpretation of Galatians 1:15. But the question at issue in my comment is whether or not Election refers to a group or to individuals. (This too is controversial. I can only give you what I believe and why.) We already know that Paul believed that God Elected Christians before the foundation of the Cosmos from Ephesians 1. The question is, does God call an anonymous group or named individuals......]]
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Jesus Christ, an individual, is to be the Groom. The Bride, a group, will be composed of 144,000 individuals.
Jesus' God/Father is putting all of this together:
"But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him." I Cor 8:6
That God/Father does things decently and in order.
The Groom: the First of the Firstfruits?
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14....etc.!
The Bride, as a group?
"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb." Rev 14:4
The Bride: as individual sealed Firstfruits?
John 1:12 “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
:13 “Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Thy Will be done: God's Will be done. Thank God for that, that what God does was/is not done by the will of blood, or the will of flesh, or the will of man.
God just does it, and the names of those individual Firstfruits are written in the Book of Life of the Lamb.
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Rev 13:8, and you, Scout, admitted your awareness of Rev 17:8.
God knows what He is doing: individual names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life!
"To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect," Heb 12:23
Will there be a "last day," a "great day," a great last day occurring when the following scripture will finally become reality?
"All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee." Psalm 22:27
Time will tell...
John
Biblehub interlinear Greek Rev 17:8 has commas before and after the phrase......"from the foundation of the world"..., indicating the phrase could possibly refer to only the Book of Life, but far from me to have a final definitive say.......I'm not a Greek scholar.
Anonymous 7:41 wrote, “Biblehub interlinear Greek Rev 17:8 has commas before and after the phrase......"from the foundation of the world"..., indicating the phrase could possibly refer to only the Book of Life…”
The original Greek manuscripts of the New Testament were written scriptio continua. The text was in all capitals without punctuation. I am not sure where the Bible Hub got its punctuation for the interlinear rendition. It does not match the KJV punctuation. But since we have nothing but the scriptio continua version, who cares.
One could say that the phrase “from the foundation of the Cosmos” does not refer to the names written in the Book of Life or the act of writing those names. One might assert that it refers to anything else in the passage. Anything is a candidate. It could refer to the “beast” or the “bottomless pit.” Or maybe it does not refer to the “book of life” but just to life itself. Even with punctuation. And we cannot rely solely on juxtaposition for a solution because that can be manipulated in different ways.
So, why do the translations I have read seem to have the phrase modify the act of writing the names in the Book of Life? I don’t know. But my guess is that when the Book of Life is mentioned, including several times by John of Patmos in the book of Revelation, it is never described as the “Book of Life from the foundation of the Cosmos.” And why would John suddenly stick in a descriptor of the Book of Life oddly in Rev 17:8? If he wanted to simply describe the Book of Life he should have done it in Rev 3:5 when he introduced it.
Some would say that the Bible gives us enough rope to hang ourselves. But I think the ambiguity is always attached to matters that are not going to make that much difference in the long run. If in the next life, someone tells me I was wrong and the believers in Conditional Election or Group Election were right, I am not going to stress. I do enjoy the midrash for now.
Scout
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