Van Robison on Mind-Slavery to WCG Splinter Groups

Mind-Slavery to WCG Splinter Groups


The mistaken belief that God requires human beings to follow the religious teachings, of a religious
overlord, is mind-boggling.    There is not one preacher, ordained that is not self-appointed.  Ordination is a human idea.

Every head or group of church leaders are always self-appointed. Not even the original disciples of Jesus were appointed to be rulers over others, instead they were merely to  speak what Jesus told them and convey the love of God, as opposed to being church lords of control.

The organized church system is not for the benefit of common people, but is designed for the vanity and ego of the human lords of control and their pocketbooks.    Anyone who stands in a pulpit and speaks dogmatically, as if they speak for God, and proceeds to tell you that you "must" observe days and times and perform religious rituals, is a complete fraud.

Common sense should tell people that God is not really as complicated as the WCG splinter group gurus, would lead the naive to believe.    All WCG splinter groups are FEAR based, as are all religions and all church groups, if they make God out to be feared.

Why fear God, if indeed God is love?  Makes no sense.  In the human realm you sow and you reap, but until God Himself speaks to you Himself and tells you otherwise, your life is your own, and it does not belong to WCG splinter group dictators and tyrants who pretend to be authority
figures.  That is all 100% hot-air.  Nor does the salvation of any human being depend upon the false leadership of any WCG splinter group head and his false teachings.

Virtually everyone who follows any WCG splinter group head, lives in false fear, because there is no valid reason to sacrifice your life and the lives of your children to the religious nonsense of any religious group.    If God wanted you to know something, why would He not speak to you
personally?  Rest assured, God has not spoken with any church head either.  Neither did God "inspire" the words attributed to him in all the papers penned about Him and compiled into one volume.  That is all hearsay and intentional fear-mongering.

All WCG splinter group heads attempt to attract followers and for what real reason?    Hmmm!


Van Robison

Dennis responds:

"How did you fall so far, and if you do not believe in what Mr. Armstrong taught anymore why write about the splinters so much. What you are doing is dangerous what if you speak against someone who is really doing Gods work. Instead of causing confusion in people who may be searching for the truth why don't you fast for two or three days and ask God to get you back on the track and then read the bible more."

I don't consider that I have fallen so far as that implies an accident or a falling away from something one should have stayed on top of.  I simply grew up to see the Sunday School version of the Bible and the "let's turn here and let's now turn here" approach to sermons and teaching spiritual truths is very flawed.  I don't think I fell any differently than, say, Galileo, who found out the earth actually revolved around the sun contrary to the Church view of an earth centered solar system.  The Church went on what APPEARED to be true.  Galileo found out what ACTUALLY is true.  The Bible is not what most think and much not written by those who you think wrote it. I dont' make up the perspectives and observations many critical and , yes, more liberal scholars have come to.  It just takes reading them and considering them which is something I find most folk don't choose to do.  It is uncomfortable and threatening to what feels good no matter if it is not actually so.  Even as a pastor, I never considered myself "believing what Mr. Armstrong taught."  I believed what I thought I saw in scripture which he may have pointed out where my Presbyterian background did not.  I was 14 at the time and idealistic and gullible.  I am no longer gullible at least.   I had many "that's bullshit" moments in my mind listening to HWA, GTA, any number so sermons and of course Gerald Watershouse.  

I appreciate your concern that you think I am in danger for speaking against "the Church" whatever that means to you.  Life is dangerous and one only gets older if they are lucky.  I think the fruit and flaws in teaching of WCG and the Splinters are obvious to those who know the topic well and have done their own homework.  I lived through it endeavoring to keep myself apart from it but that was not possible.  I'm not sure what you might mean by "God's Work."   Which one?  There are hundreds is not thousands to choose from.  That is the nature of the Bible.  One can put any possible combination of "God's Work" scriptures together as if the book was a seamless whole when it is not. There are multiple "one seemless truth" to be found.  Some think "God's Work" is done in code to be unscrambled and others think it is a puzzle to be solved.  Both those concepts make me feel a God is playing games with us.  The stakes over getting it absolutely correct are very high.  I would think a God would be more forthright with eternal death being the price one pays for not cracking the code or solving the puzzle.  

The Worldwide Church of God and all the splinters are in the Jewish/Christian style and format of belief and can claim the Peter, James and Johns of the New Testament as their source of knowing.  They cannot claim the Apostle Paul, who really did ditch the law and the Jewish Christian elements for more gnostic and gentile perspectives.  WCG spent decades endeavoring to make James the Apple and Paul the Orange into the same fruit.  It is not possible.  The average pewster in Church would have no clue to this reality.  They won't hear this from the minister either because he probably doesn't know it himself or if he did, would be wise enough to keep it to himself. 

As to causing confusion in people, I only wish to cause knowing in people.  Truth sets you free, remember?  The confusion comes when one thought they understood something and then has to confront new or contradictory information that is readily available if one is really interested in truth.  Most people are interested in feeling safe and having things all figured out as they just wait for it all to unfold as their pastor assures them it will.  I miss that feeling myself but how can you keep them down on the farm once they have stepped outside the box and considered what very skilled and knowledgeable theologians know?   Herbert W. Armstrong and few if any of the ministry in WCG or now in the splinters, especially those who take titles upon themselves and preach  foolish things about themselves and their ideas about "God's work" understand the origins, politic,  errancy issues and intent of the very book they skip and hope through weaving a sermon topic together that makes some kind of sense. 

The average person in the splinters is not a critical thinker on all things Bible.  They are listeners just as the men on Dave Pack's advisory board are "agreers."  I know full well that most may have inner doubts, say, about Dave's view of himself or any number of topics, but they "agree" outwardly to preserve their idea of unity and perhaps even income an personal security.  Dave says they all agree because they better all agree or else.  I think he has made that perfectly clear in his "How to get back into God's Church as a minister and my good graces" confessional form for emasculated ministers.  

I would like to think I point out ridiculous Church "leaders" and their very badly done ideas about themselves fairly well so others won't get taken in by it all.  The vast majority of Christian Churches would never tolerate the kind of hubris and ridiculous dictatorship ministries we saw in WCG and see again in the splinters and slivers.  It is a phenomenon to me and I have to wonder about just the kind of good folk who get trapped in it and why?  They must believe that truth and theological ignorance and antics are one and the same and ok if it gets the job done. 

It amazed me that ten sincere WCG Headquarters types did not walk into Joe Tkach's office, set his furniture out on the curb and told him to leave the building.  One controls the many for what reason and how???

If I confuse someone theologically then I suspect they are seekers and having to face what they have been told with new information they did not possess when first they came to understand what the Bible is all about.  Those who don't like the conflict new information brings to the surface simply ignore it.  I did until I couldn't.  I like truth too.

As to fasting for two or three days...been there, done that.  To be honest with you, I never understood the point of fasting even as a minister.  Going hungry for God made no real sense to me but it was something done in the Bible for various reasons and it was a church after all.  But I wondered what kind of God of the entire universe thinks measely humans at best have to not eat to be even more humble and contrite?  Am I trying to get God to feel sorry for hungry me?  Is being hungry the proof of humility in humans?  How about having the flu?  How about losing everything or getting a staph infection?  They work too.  At times I thought fasting was to weaken the members so when they were told to give more, they did not have the physical strength to hold on to their money.  :)

Any God that is real is not so petty.  In the Ten Commandments, in the original form, YHVH says,  "You shall not bring any other gods into my presence.  For I the lord your God am a jealous God."   A God jealous of other gods coming around is not a very big God.  Israel was very polytheistic in the day no matter the impression given by the Priesthood in the text.  There were many gods to contend with.  YHVH simply did not want them brought around him due to his jealousy.  Weird huh?  

I can't claim any faith that I can put my finger on.  In my experience, former faith always fell to facts that came along as I grew older and less willing to take what others said as truth.  I followed the "don't believe me, believe the Bible" advice and came up finding the Bible itself has some serious problems and the prime players did not all believe the same thing about who and what Jesus was nor did they care for each other much and as Paul said,  "I learned nothing from them." You'd think he could have learned something from the men (Peter, James, John) who are said to walked and talked with Jesus for 1 or 3 years depending on which Gospel you read.

If I had a nickle for every prayer I ever prayed asking God to "show me," "help me," "teach me", "encourage me" and generally "prove himself now herewith"  I'd be rich.   It always seemed a one way call to me or at least far too often it did.  I can assume maybe that where I am today IS the answer to my prayers but it is not a comfortable place so be careful what you pray for.

I read the Bible more than you can possibly imagine...

Warm regards

Dennis

Steve Elliot to David Hulme: The Fruit of This Organization is Bad!

Steve Elliot, a former minister in David Hulme's rapidly shrinking personalty cult, had some harsh words for Hulme recently.  Hulme has been dumping millions into his VISION magazine that has produced ZERO growth.  The ministry of Hulme's group was getting tired of this massive waste.

Stephen Elliott

December 28, 2013

In the Feast film, the media team told us that we must find words that the world will like so they will listen to us. Jesus said that the world would hate us and not listen to our word, just as it hated Him and did not hear His word—but that was the commission He gave His disciples (John 15:18-20). Seeking to be accepted by the world is seeking to become friends with the world, and scripture says that makes us God’s enemy (James 4:4).

In August I mentioned to you that the fruit of this organization is bad. Our membership has declined, not grown. After 15 years and an estimated expense for Vision of $3+ million dollars for salaries, advertising, publishing, design, shipping, PR, video, travel and whatever, there has been no fruit from Vision or the Vision website. The only new members, other than children of members, have come because of a personal relationship with a member—not because of Vision.

Rebbeca's Story About Her Life Growing Up in the Church as a Pastor's Daughter and Then Leaving the Church

Here is another interesting interview on Troy Fitzgerald's web site, Secular Safe House, about the daughter of a COG pastor and what it was like growing up in the church and then to leave the church.

Coming Out Conversations – Episode 9

Rebecca shares what it was like growing up as a pastor’s daughter in the cult, her experience attending the cult’s Ambassador University when the massive doctrinal changes of 1995 occurred, and her and her husband’s time teaching at a school in Sri Lanka for a year after graduation on behalf of the church’s educational and cultural foundation. Upon returning to Canada after being in Sri Lanka for a year, they entered the ministry pastoring their own congregation.

She then discusses how her and her husband rediscovered their passion for Sri Lanka and returned there to start their own school in that country, which they’ve now run for 11 years, despite having amicably divorced. She shares how she ultimately came to believe religion’s various concepts of God were unfounded, how she came to leave the church, and her current views about God.

Besides the non-profit school in Sri Lanka that she and her ex-husband operate from Canada, she also has her own counseling and coaching business and discusses how she came to realize her passion for counseling during the interview.

Rebecca is interviewed by Troy Fitzgerald, founder of Secular Safe House and author of Cults and Closets: Coming Out of Chaos. For more about Troy’s coming out story, check out his blog articles: How an Atheist Can Be Saved and Closets are for Coats.

A Brief Photo Essay on the Wildworld Church of God

And during the few moments that we have left
We wanna talk right down to Earth in a language that everybody here can easily understand

Look in my eyes, what do you see?
The cult of personality
I know your anger, I know your dreams
I've been everything you want to be
I'm the cult of personality
Like Mussolini and Kennedy
I'm the cult of personality
The cult of personality
The cult of personality

Neon lights, a Nobel prize
Than the mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set me free

I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your tv
I'm the cult of personality
I exploit you, still you love me
I tell you one and one makes three
I'm the cult of personality
Like Joseph Stalin and Gandhi
I'm the cult of personality
The cult of personality
The cult of personality

Neon lights, a Nobel prize
When a leader speaks, that leader dies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set you free (?)

You gave me fortune
You gave me fame
You gave me power in your god's name
I'm every person you need to be
I'm the cult of personality (I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of)
I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of (I'm the cult of)
I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of personality (I'm the cult of)
Ask not what your country can do for you

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/l/living+colour/cult+of+personality_20084475.html

Herbert W. Armstrong and Garner Ted arrive for 1968 Feast of Tabernacles in Squaw Valley

Squaw Valley Falcon Fan Jet Flyover-Squaw Valley

Garner Ted introduces Herbert at Refresher to discuss the Systematic Theology Project circa 1976

Ministerial Luncheon - Tucson - 1984

Joseph W. Tkach speaks at Herbert W. Armstrong Funeral and assumes the Pastor Generalship

Joe Sr. and assistants Joe Jr and Mike Feazell

Joseph Tkach Junior assumes Pastor Generalship after the passing of Joseph W. Tkach Sr

Roderick C. Meredith starts Global Church of God

...but moves on to start the Living Church of God taking the founder of the Plain Truth Newstand Program, David C Pack with him.

David C Pack is fired from Living Church of God/Or Global.. I forget and starts the Deplored Church of God

And over the the years convinces the masses he is The Watcher, The Apostle and Joshua the High Priest as spoken of by the Prophet Haggai and Zechasomebody

Mussolini's classmate and wife break from United Church of God to declare themselves the Two Witnesses of Revelation

But gets off track for a time, times and half a time copying the lifestyle and expenditures of the Armstrongs, Tkaches, Flurrys and Packs

In the Spring of 2013 Apostle Pack doesn't set a date of August 31, 2013 for the Unification of all the splinters under his leadership and doesn't give 24 rock solid reasons why this simply has to be true.

The Apostle Pack disappears from the scene in October of 2013 whileTwo of the Sixteen Agreers on the Board of Deplored seek a way to prevent such future mistakes in the "timing" of the prophecy and not the content.  The prophecy is definately "ON" and  Apostle Pack declares God's Word as "clear as crystal" on this muddied topic

Meanwhile, large portions are of Ambassador College are demolished to be replaced by Condos

But not to worry...Dave Pack and Gerald Flurry....

...are raising up the past from the ruins and the ashes after having found the old blueprints

Pastor General Gerald Flurry faints during a sermon in 2014

Longtime confidant of the Armstrongs, David Hulme experiences loyalty problems in his own version of truth in 2014 and dis fellowships everyone but himself

The beat goes on....

Dennis muses: The Return of Awesomeness

FRIDAY, JANUARY 10, 2014

Pastor General's Yearly Letter

Pastor General David C. Pack’s fifth annual “Fruits Letter,” written for those with a background in the Worldwide Church of God and its offshoots, will be available early next week. Once again, this year’s letter is loaded with statistics that reflect the explosive growth unique to The Restored Church of God.

Wrong fruits Dave

Galatians 5:22-23

New International Version (NIV)

²² But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, ²³ gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

1 Corinthians 13

New International Version (NIV)

13 If I speak in the tongues^[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. ² If I have the gift of prophecy (you don't obviously) and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, (Not even close) and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. ³ If I give all I possess to the poor (I think you said RCG didn't do such things so no problem here) and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,^[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

⁴ Love is patient, love is kind. Iit is not proud.⁵ It does not it does not envy, it does not boast, dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. ⁶ Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. ⁷ It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
⁸ Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; (Or blow up in your addled theological speculations face)where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.⁹ For we know in part and we prophesy in part, ¹⁰ but when completeness comes,what is in part disappears. ¹¹ When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. (You still do and no offense to children) When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. ¹² For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
¹³ And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.  

...And not overarching, mind boggling internet hits and statistics , seat gyrating announcements, mahogany trim, Steuben Crystal, and now I even hear you are toying with the Plane for Dave ego buster.  You could use some pastoral lessons from the current Pope.  He is far ahead of you in things you know nothing about.  

It's always been about the numbers Dave no matter your denial. I was going to send you a New Testament for Christmas but you'd probably not understand it. Not even that Revelation part.

Amen

NOW THAT WE'RE IN CHARGE.... NO MORE DISSENT!

NOW THAT WE'RE IN CHARGE.... NO MORE DISSENT!

As Dave Pack is busy recuperating from the inexplicable failure of all COG splinter groups to meekly coalesce under him last fall, the current story of the day seems to be the meltdown of another group of another Dave, i.e. David Hulme.

It's an interesting exercise in group herding psychology to read dissenting  ministers' arguments vs. establishment-supporting ministers' arguments.

Bemused and amused, I found a sermon by a supporting minister, Eric Keefer, to be particularly interesting, not simply because of the at-the-door-brain-checking aspect ("obey authority!") but yet more so because of the blinding hypocrisy of some of the arguments.  The sermon audio is here (sermon given on Dec. 28, 2013):  http://pabco7.com/~pabco/20131228KeeferE.mp3

All the background one needs is to recall the general history of COGic.  Hulme (with followers) left WCG sometime in the 1990s, forming UCG, and the sometime later left UCG to form their current group. In other words, COGic exists because they were willing to rebel against "God-appointed authority", not once, but twice. But now we see what happens when the rebellion becomes the establishment.

Things get unbelievable at around the 25 minute mark. After reading from (you've got to be kidding me!!!) HWA's Mystery of the Ages (which should immediately on-the-spot destroy any speaker's credibility), Mr. Keefer sets forth his argument as to why dissenters are wrong to speak up.

[Transcripted]:

"If Mr. Hulme has disqualified himself by leading us away from God, that would be one thing, but he has not...  This is a matter of some deciding they know better, and God has not put them in a position to make those kinds of decisions, and ... they're rebelling against those decisions.  I don't think God's arm is too short to put whoever he wills in that place to make those decisions.  I just don't believe that God said "Oops I made a mistake, put David Hulme there, I should have never done that, but now I'm stuck with him so now I've got to create a rebellion to overthrow him".  That's not the way God works, brethren.  If God has a problem with Mr. Hulme, God will take care of it.  If God wants us to change our approach, he certainly could have placed one of these ministers in his spot, but guess what?  That didn't happen.  He would have certainly done it without appealing to what amounts to be a public rebellion.  God does not work that way.

However, if you still have questions and doubts, that's ok.  I completely understand why you might not be as confident as I am.  But my advice to you, as it always has been, is to remain calm and wait on God.  Let God fix it, if there's a problem, let God fix it.  Let God deal with it.  If there's something hidden it will be revealed in time..."

Yeah.... right.  God always fixes leadership problems in COG, doesn't he?  :-)  Double smiley :-)  No,  make that a triple :-)

Mr. Keefer, do you have any idea how bizarre and hypocritical those words sound?

That is of course why half the church had to leave into various splinters against the "God-appointed" Joe Tkach (appointed personally by HWA, for Pete's sake!  How much more validity do these HWA-acolytes want?)

So, Mr. Keefer (and Hulme supporters), this implies that you took exactly the wrong course of action, whereas the proper response should have been "C'mon now, if God has a problem with Joe Tkach, God will take care of it! Remain calm and wait on God".  After all his arm is longer than Joe Tkach's arm.  Or was God simply no match for the mighty Tkach?

We all know that the WCG splinter ministers/members were patient and relied on HWA's God to set things straight, don't we? 

Keefer later argues that differences in how the gospel is to be preached (i.e. minister and member dissatisfaction about Vision magazine) should not be grounds for dissent.  Yet when COGic formed from UCG, that was one of the stated reasons for the defection, at least according to http://theshininglight.info/?p=14233:

"David Hulme, used two  doctrinal issues  (better governance and being more proactive in proclaiming the gospel) as his justification for leaving UCG and starting his own organization."

So, instead, shouldn't you have submitted to the authority that UCG's God had supposedly established? Why didn't Hulme & Co. take a more humble approach and realize that "that's not the way God works"? and if he had a problem with it, "He would have certainly done it without appealing to what amounts to be a public rebellion."

Well, I understand it's all different when you're the one being rebelled against, but it's the blatant hypocrisy that is so dazzling.

Of course, this is all very, very human-like behavior and simply accentuates the fact that all of this drama has nothing to do with some God and His Work(TM), but simply humans and their contrived beliefs and power-plays.

Michael