Questions Your Pastor Will Hate
By Dennis Diehl
I remember being 18 and sitting through Rod Meredith's 'Harmony of the Gospels' class and venturing to ask a question about an apparent contradiction in the accounts. (Harmony in the Gospels is hardly an accurate course description). It was a sincere question. RCM asked someone in the class to explain it to Dennis, implying I was not listening or something. Very embarrassing to me but it is where I learned not to ask him questions again.No one else answered it either. Around lunch time I headed to the dining hall and RCM was running around the track and saw me going in. He called me over. "He's going to apologize for embarrassing me," I rather naively thought to myself. What he did was ask me if I had repented yet... Um....of what? He never really said and I went to lunch. I guess I've been out to lunch ever since.
Between GTA's calling me in to ask why I hated him (I didn't) and this, I should have just gone home and saved myself the next 30 years of the same.
As the years in ministry went by, I realized that asking questions was a dangerous thing. I learned not to ask questions about Biblical contradictions in science, history and origins. I learned not to ask questions about whatever was going on in the drama filled WCG that I was supposed to represent. Once I asked about the "rumor" HWA was divorcing. The return call was JWT yelling into the phone to "squelch it!" What a nutso church. Personally I learned that 100% of any question I had was answered in ways that turned out to be, in truth, the opposite of what I was told. No wonder, when the end came, the minister could not win getting stuck between believing what they were told by those over me and congregants who knew more than I did because of their contacts. WCG could make a fool out of a local pastor in a minute and did.
I have thought a lot about why in all that time, I never heard anyone ask any good questions about the many and very obvious contradictions in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. No minister ever asked me, "Have you ever wondered about....?" or "Doesn't this seem troublesome?" Even Friday night studies where GTA or someone would answer Bible questions, were rather lame. One always knew the question was a bit too troubling because the more troubling the question the more sarcastic the "explanation."
I wish I had known enough back then to have asked HWA after years of the never ending "story of the two trees," if he understood the Trees in the Garden of Eden were off limits because their fruit was god food? The Knowledge of Good and Evil was a God topic and not for man. Why not I never knew because if Adam and Eve weren't allowed to take of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, how could they be blamed for any sin? They didn't know good from evil or weren't supposed to. We see the consternation this caused the "gods" El and his council of the gods (Let US make man in Our Image etc...) reflected in one of the council members telling El that man must be driven out of the Garden, "lest he eat of the tree of eternal life (also a god tree and not for man) and live forever.
Of course this is pure rewrite with a Hebrew twist, of an Ancient Sumerian creation story that better explains the pagan origins of even the Hebrew Sabbath. The original story was explaining how the god's needed rest from man's persistent complaining as worker bees for the gods. The gods ate food then and man's purpose was to till the ground and make it happen. In the original tale it was El (originally a Canaanite god adopted by the Hebrews) and his council that wanted rest from man. It's why, "from now on, with the sweat of your brow shall you till the earth..". It used to be easier for the human slaves to the gods in the original "Edin." Basically it was the loving El telling humans, "if you think you have it bad now, just hear this punishment." Rather like Egyptians expecting quality brick by limiting the straw needed to make it so.
Whoa.....how fun a question would that have been to ask or explain instead of having to endure, "there were two trees in the garden....."? Not to worry. There never was a real garden nor a real Adam and Eve really sinning and condemning us all to the need for a blood sacrifice. It's mythology. If you wish to know where real humans first came from and how, get a good up to date book on recent findings. Or even do as I did and have your DNA traced back 100,000 years to Africa. (http://ezinearticles.com/?Biblical--Adam-and-Eve-Laid-to-Rest-by-National-Genome-Project&id=94643).
Come to realize that without a literal Adam and especially Eve as presented, we can't demote women to the status of obedient servants nor can the Doctrine of Original sin hold any sway over us, but I spare you. It's mythology guys and to think otherwise in this day and age with so much good information and science available to us is pure ignorance.
If Elijah had known to dig down 30 feet in the cave he hid in and saw God's rear end, he would have found some of the best Neanderthal skeletons in the world in that cave on Carmel. Did "Jesus" know about Neanderthals, Homo Ergaster and Homo Habilis? No he did not and also would not have been able or willing to explain them. And no, they weren't the "and there were giants in the earth in those days, either.
So from 1968-1996 I personally asked few good questions of my peers or of the Bible itself. That came to a end when I read and resonated with John Shelby Spong's, Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism. Finally a good answer to my question to RCM long ago in class. I wrote JSP and thanked him and that I was using his insights in my sermons and studies. He wrote me and said, "Thank you Dennis, you won't survive." Alas the nature of asking too many questions to those who the power but no clue as to the answer.
So, with that in mind, I present to my former minister friends the series I wrote to challenge them to think and realize an even more Present Truth than ever inaccurate Plain Truth.
The series is called, "Questions Your Pastor Will Hate." Some is written a bit cheeky and sarcasm, which reflected my sideways turned anger at the time, and a simple request to consider the Book was not written by God, unless God was drinking during inspiring much of its content.
And yes, I am well aware of apologetics which is an apt name for the art of denial when being confronted with the real contradictions and nonsense found in the pages of the "holy, inerrant word of God."
Here are the links to the articles.
So while we all get to watch, yet again, the birth of the Actually Now and Really Really True, Strife Without End True Church of God replicate itself, what ever would happen if they came to understand how they even got the texts to argue over in the first place? If they could just face the mythology of Genesis 1-11 is not literally true or historical, they would learn the meaning of personal crisis at the gut level.
It's no fun learning you were wrong about something so important for one to be the truth. I had to get counseling just to cope with the angst my changing paradigm brought me. Here is my counselor and my first session exchange. It is word for word as I memorized it to get through the angst.
Counselor: "Wow Dennis.....you got fired by God!"
Dennis: "Any other time I think that would be funny but please not now."
Counselor: "Just kidding you. I used to be a church pastor like you."
Dennis: "Well just understand that if you counsel me with Bible advice, I will find another counselor."
Counselor: "No, no. Just kidding. In reality this is what you are about to experience. Dennis, you outgrow your boxes quickly. We all come in a box and most never examine the box they come in. You have only two choices. You can go back into the box you just came from and everyone will be so happy and you will feel much more secure and safe. However, you will be on anti-depressants the rest of your life because of your repressed anger. OR, you can keep going and see what's in this box, but you will go ALONE." (This is where I tear up thinking about the truth of how what he noted has worked out.)
Anyway, John Shelby Spong, author of Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, also told me he was pleased I learn much from his books but that "Dennis, you won't survive," Only true prophet I ever met.
And so enjoy these questions that you as a minister also have a right to ask before you tell people what they should or must be, do , think, act like or become. Whether we like it or not and no matter the angst it may cause to surface, there is precious little harmony of not only the Gospels but in every book of the book beginning to end. This can be a hard thing to face which is why we don't and go on to believe as I was told during my debate in Texas with Art Mokarrow, "There is a good answer for everyone of those questions." Oh really? Do tell.....
DennisCDiehl@aol.com
Dennis Diehl is a former church pastor and currently has a therapeutic massage practice in Greenville, SC. |
14 comments:
Dennia:
So appreciate your postings and all your efforts. My wife and I can relate so much...
she as a child in the church since '58 and me since '67....both left in ''97...what a wild ride! Again, you are doing a good service. Thank you for it...hope some will read, read, read all that is available, and walk through that door of freedom.
Thank you for your kind comment. I only every wanted to know the "truth" myself and if this is really it and I can be helpful, then it is enough.
I did not invent these contradictions and perspectives. I merely discovered them after a long time of either not knowing they existed or being in denial that they existed.
WCG/COG ministers are not well trained in the realities of the Bible, just the reading of it. That is true of many fundamentalists. Actually most all.
I guess I take a little satisfaction in the fact that at any time of the day, someone on earth is probably using these questions to drive their pastor nuts..ha.
The youtube debate with the article is so so true and so well done. Funny yet true. I would have simply loved putting that on as a skit in the church for district family weekend..yeah right :)
What would have really been fun is if you had access to this Millennium's study of DNA: Asking Herbert Armstrong what he was going to do now that DNA refutes British Israelism would have been worth paying to see.
Very true Douglas. Yesterday at the spa I asked a young mormon guy that works with me how mormonism was handling the DNA facts that Native Americans came from Siberia and were not Hebrews as Mormonism demands. The Israel/Indian thing was a 19th Century thing when Mormonism was begun. And..that my own DNA refuted the Adam and Eve story.
He said that DNA could be read either way (?????) and he still believed in a literal Adam and Eve.
Classic denial when good science drives out bad literalism.
Douglas,
Herbert would have replied "poppycock." He would assert that he knows 100% of everything 100% of the time, fortunately for him he did not live to experience the information age.
Its terribly sad, that this neurotic, sick shyster with a stronger voice than mind got away with what he did.
He spent his entire adult life emptying garbage pails full of the vilest slanders and defamation's on the clean garments of honorable people. People who scrapped by to make ends meet while he lived as a king in his vile mansion.
The world has seen his type before.
Intellectually dishonest, liar, cheat and thief. The way he managed his family corporate cult was hardly in accordance with Robert's Rules of Order.
He managed more in line with Hitlers fascist regime, he denied medical care to the citizens of his corporation which is in line with Stalin's purges. The man hobnobbed with tyrannical dictators. Need I say more?
Herbert would have replied "poppycock." He would assert that he knows 100% of everything 100% of the time, fortunately for him he did not live to experience the information age.
... Need I say more?
James, no, but we all wish you would.
None of us really knew back then because the Autobiography obfuscated it, but he barely had an eigth grade education. Yes, you are probably right that he would have said "poppycock" or words to that effect. He was so proud that he was chancellor of a college -- and had more power over people with advanced degrees than anyone who was enslaved to his organization of fraud. He was not academically qualified to be a chancellor, but there you are. He had the power. He had the gold. He ruled.
What amazes me today is that most of the CoGs (Churches of Gone) are patiently tolerant of critics until you strike a really raw nerve.
I have had the satisfaction to strike that raw nerve with DNA evidence. The few amongst the Armstrongists I've had a chance to relate it to were panicked! No other recent "revelations" have caused such a knee-jerk reaction.
Every once in awhile a proof using scientific data comes along and completely obliterates the apologists.
Dennis:
I guess we've all had much the same experience in WW. A zillion indicators along the way that things were so off-balance; yet, we remained and "built character."
Was that effective brainwashing or what ...
You must often regret or question yourself why you didn't just walk out. Although where would have your congregations been without you all those years You sound like you were one of the very few decent ministers in a severely dysfunctional organization.
As truthfully as i can be, I stayed so long because I didn't want to leave the local congregation more confused and hurt. I am a caretaker by nature (ENFP) I had and have my struggles but no one can tell me I wasnt sincere about it until I could no longer be.
I had to be there and I left when it all was finally falling apart including my personal relationships. Actually the terminated me or I am not sure just how or when I would have gone on my own.
The anxiety of losses has continued to cost me relationships and while I don't like it, I understand it better than ever so maybe I can do better handling it properly.
I tend to wait until others take action as well. Sometimes I sit here alone and still wonder just what the hell happened. I have always had issues with abandonment that go deep from what I have learned. I have abandoned others too so sometimes dont feel I have a right to complain when it happens. The last two years have rubbed my face in this issue so I guess the Karma Fairy wants me to learn from it so she can move on her way.
The "Quiz Show" was priceless.
Dennis:
Many of us who endured the abuses of the WCG also have varying degrees of attachment issues from childhood circumstances.
My best childhood friend in the whole world was my sister. We were happy. But one day while playing a children’s board game, my mother came in and started yelling that from that point on, we were no longer allowed to speak to each other. It made no sense to us. To reinforce her position, she started hitting us with one of her many wooden paddles. The next day when she heard us playing, out came the paddle again for talking to each other when she expressly forbidded it. Sadly, her no-speaking rule extended to other relatives and our friends, whenever she arbitrarily pleased. My sister started to treat me as an enemy, fuelled by the psychological traps my mother deliberately set. We were not allowed to speak to my father, nor did he speak to us. Same for certain aunts, uncles & cousins and school friends. Petty, irrational control on the part of my mentally ill mother that served no purpose, yet continues to this day. It is frightening that I joined a church that behaved in much the same manner.
It is now 45 years later, and except for a few brief conversations 25 or 30 years ago, my sister still does not speak to me. I missed knowing her children and now, their children. Maybe when my mother dies, the barriers will be lifted. But she is 82 and like the evil HWA, may live well into her 90’s.
The church helped me through these childhood losses with the illusion that I was called and converted. The church was pretty good at separating families, and replacing remorse with an alleged higher purpose.
We all have regrets in life that we are powerless to change.
Dennis, it's an easy thing for me to tell you to stop beating yourself up over the past, but PLEASE, stop beating yourself up over the past! :) I come from the NYC area, and we had a bunch of "cock a doodle doos", take command there in the 50's-80's, and being a second generationer myself, I can't believe I stayed in it as long as I did, even though I posed alot of those kind of questions to my ministers too. Never did get any kind of rational answers. We were BRAINFREEZED, and it takes some people longer to thaw than others. The only people I have to make amends to are my now adult children for imposing MY insanity on their innocence. All water under the bridge, thankfully we take the day going forward. I still say I wish you had been one of MY ministers Dennis. Thank you for your posts!
Thank you "Whatmeworry", I needed that...again ha. I can't tell you how many times I have heard "don't beat yourself up." You'd think I'd learned by now. It's why I wrote an article about "Don't be the Monkey on your own back."
I just know I was forced to wear masks in being a minister and really a human being. Everyone does I have learned and seen. Too much religion can make one fear, shame and guilt based at very deep levels it takes time to lighten up on.
I still have a lot of anxiety issues, (as in right now while writing.ha) Mornings seem to do that to me and its always based in "what going to happen to me when old" or "how is this going to work out." I also suspect I have a chance of being rather stuck with my own personality disorder that only changing how one thinks seems to help. I took meds in the past but I don't want to cover stuff up and have them keep emerging. I'd rather face them now. Thus the anxiety at times.
I feel any number of the more prominent lone wolf one man religious shows have a form of mental illness that they can cover well in ministry as their quirkiness looks like obedience and sincerity and faith. But it is not that at all.
Many people with genuine mental health issues are drawn to religion to find the cure or to keep doing what they do because they now have church permission.
Too bad annon could not just tell mom that he'd talk to whoever he wanted to in life but that is the sway parents have over kids and then it seems too late to stop the damage.
Anyway, I blather. Thank you for your kind comments.
Dennis:
We've seen everything we believed in fall apart. The sense of security is no longer. Were it not for the WCG, I never would have known the mythology that gave rise to Christianity -- including the mythology of Jesus. Did that realization ever hit me like a tone of bricks. I sunk into such a deep depression, not only because of the enormity of the lie, but how much of my life I wasted pursuing Christianity.
Anxiety is understandable.
There are answers out there to all of our concerns and problems. Sometimes when we cannot find them on our own, we look to others for their insight and a fresh perspective.
At times, your writings, you have been that source for me.
I've adopted your words to deal with the frustration of those things that I am powerless to change ... "don't ask, and all things are possible."
Love you, Dennis.
Annon: thanks, I appreciate knowing I am helpful somehow. I'm a caretaker/healer ENFP by nature with a bit too much Empath thrown in that causes problems.
Email me anytime at DennisCDiehl@aol.com We can chat or I can give you my phone number though not hard to find on the net
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