God has been really busy or completely forgetful over the past 30 some years as countless Church of God prophets have claimed his complete and exclusive blessing over their prophethood status. The problem all Church of God members have is knowing who God actually has appointed and who have self-appointed themselves.
For 8 decades, the Church of God has been plagued with one self-appointed prophet after another. Many of them would show up in Pasadena with documents proving their sainthood. Others would show up in robes and picket signs declaring their superior knowledge. Almost all of these were just "regular" Church members who claimed to receive some kind of enlightenment. That all changed with the death of Herbert Armstrong. Without HWA in power, this opened wide the door for one mentally disturbed man after another to came forth. Even a few women made it into the fray this time around.
Nothing compares though to the number of men who have claimed prophethood over the last 15 years or so with the likes sof Bob Thiel, Dave Pack, James Malm, Alton Billingsley, Gerald Flurry and others. Each one of these men self-appointed themselves to their positions. God was not a part of their appointments no matter how much they lie and create mindboggling scenarios.
Almost-ordained Elijah Thiel claims that he and he alone knows what exactly will be happening as the tribulation swiftly approaches and that those in all the other COG's will be heading directly into the tribulation because they are ignorant of the signs of the end times. Of course and as usual, Almost-ordained Thiel claims his group is the ONLY Philadelphian Church of God out there in COGlet land and that ALL the others are deceived and Laodicean.
Many fail to realize that the Bible teaches that Jesus will protect ONLY the Philadelphians from the ‘hour of trial’ (Revelation 3:7-10; 12:14-16), the rest of the Christians will go through the Great Tribulation and Day of The Lord (Revelation 12:17), and the place the Philadelphians are protected is in the wilderness (Revelation 12:14-16). Heaven is not a wilderness and Christians are not going to be there during the Great Tribulation as the rapturists teach.
Yet, because they have teachings against certain biblically revealed prophetic matters, those in the Sardis and Laodicean Church of God groups will not possibly known when to flee prior to the start of the Great Tribulation unless they repent according to what Jesus taught about them (Revelation 3:1-6, 14-22). Thus, most saints will be left behind. But you, if you are willing to believe what the Bible teaches and live accordingly, do not have to be left behind yourself.There you go, follow Almost-arrested Thiel and you will NOT be left behind!
56 comments:
Please....I beg of thee....leave me behind...
I would rather go into the lake of fire or suffer in the tribulation than to know I had to spend 3 1/2 years listening to Bob Thiel or James Malm fight over who is the rightful ruler of Petra.
Actually, God protected all Christians during the Tribulation in 70AD.
Wake up people, this is fear porn to control you and take your money.
Gerald Flurry has said many times that the "Laodiceans", by which he means all other WCG split-offs, are hard-headed rebels. He thinks that anyone who does not see eye-to-eye with him is a hard-headed rebel. The world is full of hard-headed rebels, whom God must punish, and the same goes for the WCG split-offs. Or so he thinks. It never occurs to him that he is just wrong, even though he knows he has to bend the truth to keep his little church together.
As wrong as that is, it is quite normal. Anyone the USA does not like is branded a devil who must be bombed into submission. So we have to constantly bash anyone we don't agree with, whether it's Kim or Putin or Assad or Gadaffi, or Sadam or whoever. We understand none of those leaders, or their people, or their countries, or their circumstances but we feel we don't have to because we are totally indoctrinated that we are the best and the rest are all crazy evil monsters. And since you can't understand crazy, why try? Just bomb them out of existence, or let God sort it out in the tribulation or the next life. Flurry's world-view is full of evil monsters everywhere.
In short, Flurry is nothing more than an uneducated and indoctrinated Joe-six-pack with a bible tuned into the Herbert Channel and a TV tuned into the Fox-CNN-BBC-etc lie machine that tells him he's right and everyone else is a rebel who must be thrown in the tribulation and suffer and suffer and suffer until they aren't so darn willfully stubborn and rebellious.
Anonymous senior citizen said...
Actually, God protected all Christians during the Tribulation in 70AD.
Wake up people, this is fear porn to control you and take your money.
______________________________________________
And might I add, religious communism.
-James
David Pack and Gerald Flurry should be locked in a room and get in a knock down drag out fight and basically never let out for the sake of their poor brainwashed cults!
No self-respecting Christian would ever follow a liar like Bob Thiel!
It is easier for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than a poor man. ~ Jesus
What happens if you are from Laos and you are also a Laodicean? Would you be a Laosdicean then??
Gary has got to be the most dedicated anti-COG commentator-author EVER. Hat's off to the man who keeps at it day after day. Mr. Relentless. Thank-you for your dedication to a noble cause.
Thanks, but it is not actually a hard thing to do. None of these morons can keep their mouths shut as they continue to say something stupid almost every single day. They are their own worst enemy. No COG member in their right mind should be following these lying fools. Isolating their comments from their larger commentaries where it usually gets buried, exposes these degenerate men for the liars they are. It is all actually comical at times. Many times I am laughing as I post some of this stuff. They are all blithering idiots.
FUN FACT FOR CONNIE: Most Christians residing in Pennsylvania's largest city are in fact part of Sardis (Sardisian? Sardisite?) rather than Philadelphian.
Anon 4:10 PM
It is easier for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than a poor man. ~ Jesus
If a rich man enters a poor man, he is a Sodomite and won't enter the kingdom of Heaven.
Gary, it is your perseverance and dedication that puts you in a class by yourself (and maybe the Painful Truth, a.k.a. James et al? as a close second?). And Dennis. You guys are special. The COGs need you. Great job. Keep it up. You helped to deprogram me and many others. Lives are being changed; for the better. That's what it is all about.
It is easier for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than a poor man. ~ Jesus
And your chapter and verse is ...
this is a terrifying signaling moment from one of these COG madmen....the time is getting late..NOW is the time to follow me into the jungle...or burning barn, or to the mothership behind the comet...my sister is in one of these mind-control cults and I'm trying to set her free....from the "LCG" and Rod McNair....
Didn't you fergit Weinland?? Hasn't he ended the world a few times already?
Dear Dr. Bob: How do we get positive confirmation that you are the one? Most odd-ball preachers say as their proof that if we decide to follow them, it means we have the Holy Spirit. However, I'm not sure that those preachers really understand God the Holy Spirit and how He works. Also, Bob, you seem to be hung up on whether or not everyone accepts you as a prophet. That indicates a certain lack of Godly confidence. Therefore, I believe I'd be on really shakey ground following you. That is not to be mean-spirited, though, because I believe I'd also be on shakey ground following anyone else in Armstrongism. I feel more comfortable sending my free-will offerings to the B'nai B'rith.
BB
I've noticed decades ago, that Dennis's non existent Satan causes some distracting event just prior the Feast of Tabernacles. There's a pattern there. I wonder if there will be such a event this year?
Anonymous 1:09 AM needs to study confirmation bias. This same Satan who "causes some distracting event just prior to the Feast of Tabernacles" each year ALSO causes a distracting event just prior to every Groundhog Day. So, pray tell, where does Groundhog Day fit into the Plan of God?
And the ones that happen the rest of the year just happen, right?
“For 8 decades, the Church of God has been plagued with one self-appointed prophet after another. Many of them would show up in Pasadena with documents proving their sainthood. Others would show up in robes and picket signs declaring their superior knowledge. Almost all of these were just "regular" Church members who claimed to receive some kind of enlightenment. That all changed with the death of Herbert Armstrong. Without HWA in power, this opened wide the door for one mentally disturbed man after another to came forth. Even a few women made it into the fray this time around.”
That is so true. With HWA away, the kooks will play.
False prophets like Gerald Flurry, David Pack, Ronald Weinland, Robert Thiel, and others now each pretend that they are HWA's successor, but can you imagine what HWA would say about all these fraudsters and do to them if he were alive yet? Their massive doctrinal changes away from what HWA had taught would get all of them branded as the satanic false prophets that they really are.
Can anyone who still remembers HWA and what he taught imagine him ever putting up with any of these perverts and the nonsense and evil that they teach? Can you imagine HWA ever submitting to any of these rude jerks? (Yeah, I know, you cannot imagine HWA ever submitting to anyone, anywhere, anytime.)
I would absolutely love to see what HWA would have to say about Gerald Flurry doing away with the “great commission” that Jesus gave to his apostles (not prophets) to preach the gospel of the kingdom of God to the whole world (which HWA had called the “very purpose” of the church), and replacing it with a new era, “new commission” to cause satanic division among the former WCG members, their friends, and even their close family members. It would be very interesting to see HWA take apart Gerald Flurry for totally mangling everything that the biblical book of Malachi really teaches: from turning the hearts of the fathers and their children against each other, to causing unnecessary divorces, to robbing God so Gerald Flurry could support his false prophet status and Irish dancing for his own descendants.
I would absolutely love to see what HWA would have to say about David Pack “respectfully” promoting HWA out of the way posthumously, but supposedly giving him back “two feet taller” in the office of Moses, so that David Pack could promote himself to the office of Elijah the Prophet with the power to edit, change, delete, make up, and “restore” doctrines.
I would absolutely love to see what HWA would have to say about both Gerald Flurry and David Pack now each claiming to be “That Prophet” of Deuteronomy 18:18-19. To do it, David Pack even had to delete the book he had previously written that had proved that Jesus Christ was “That Prophet.” Of course, if David Pack's awesome mental deterioration continues, he might someday claim to have humbly discovered that he himself is Jesus Christ, and then his old book could be “restored” with the additional explanation that David Pack = Jesus Christ = That Prophet.
Why is Aaron Dean, who was HWA's young personal assistant in HWA's old age, not speaking out forcefully about the outrageous things that are happening, instead of continuing to act like such a wimp? From Aaron Dean's WCG days to his UCG days, it seems like there have always been powerful people out to get him. One guy who was trying to cause serious trouble for Aaron Dean for ridiculous reasons went with COGWA. Is Aaron Dean still being kept too busy just trying to survive the high-level backstabbers and rug-pullers in the UCG?
Our Italian barbers in the town I grew up in once remarked amongst themselves during one of my haircuts that bad things always seem to happen around the Jewish holidays. I never asked them whether that was a Catholic thing, or just their personal belief, but apparently it was a thing. Obviously, I was shocked to hear it from that source, since our own church basically taught the same thing, although the explanations for this acknowledged phenomenon were completely different.
BB
7.24 AM
Confirmation bias?? It is easy to back test my point. The history is there. I mentioned this point (in secular terms) to investor friends of mine about twenty years ago. This was relevant to them since it often impacted the stock market. After several years of observation, they agreed with me.
11.00 AM
You left out that HWA himself played a savage game of king of the mountain. In church literature and from the pulpit members frequently heard the words (in reverential tones) 'the chosen apostle Mr Herbert W Armstrong.' This is in plain contradiction to the spirit of Christ's 'call no man your master.'
Kelly Marshalls review of Herbs Mystery of the ages, gives example after example of putting down and demeaning everyone and every thing in order to exalt himself and his church. This is plain bully behaviour. For example modern Christianity doesn't teach that God commandments have been 'nailed to the cross.' This is a straw man argument at best, if not a blatant lie.
There's the other favourite of 'mankind can send men to the moon and back, but doesn't know the way of peace.' Not true. There are many secular philosophers who embraced the equivalent of the ten commandments. The knowledge has always been there. And not forgetting Herb and his ministers exalting themselves above members with his 'beware the evils of self esteem.' In fact his ministers didn't waste time with any line of persuasion. They simply beat down, and verbally teardowned members. Destructive criticism was and still is a ministry favourite. Verbal murder 'gets results.'
Dave Pack and others, are just imitating their 'hero' with their fancy titles.
12:50,
If it is so easy to test your point, why don't you give us the data. Until you do so, I for one will assume that you are just nuts.
Anonymous on October 3, 2017 at 1:19 PM said...“Kelly Marshalls review of Herbs Mystery of the ages, gives example after example of putting down and demeaning everyone and every thing in order to exalt himself and his church. This is plain bully behaviour. For example modern Christianity doesn't teach that God commandments have been 'nailed to the cross.' This is a straw man argument at best, if not a blatant lie.”
Then why are the Roman Catholic Church and its numerous Protestant daughter churches a bunch of ham-eating, Sunday-keeping, Christmas-Easter-and-Halloween-observing Trinitarians with weird ideas about heaven and hell? Roman Catholics even believe in purgatory, adore hippie idols, pray to Mary, and have supposedly celibate but actually grossly sexually immoral priests. Maybe the real problem is that these churches have rejected the commandments of God in order to observe their own, unbiblical, man-made, pagan-based customs and traditions.
As for whining about “bullying,” remember that what the Roman Catholic Church and its Protestant daughter churches have done in the past to those who actually tried to obey God's commandments has been murderous. Accusing HWA of “bullying” for teaching about the Bible and God's ways is a dishonest trick used by bad people. Remember that these days any talk against the LGBTQ agenda is also being criticized and condemned as “bullying.”
I wondered where your COG Comedianship had been keeping itself.
3.01 PM
The bible tells us its reference point when it tells Christians to be blameless, become perfect and follow Christ. The reference point is not the Catholic church as you imply. True that the word bullying and others have becomes abused and used as clubs. But 'true' bullying did exist, and still does exist in these Herb clone churches. The body of evidence from former and present members proves this.
Go to a minister for advice (a big mistake) and they deliberately give bad advice. When the 'victim' complains that it doesn't sound right, he minister responds with verbal attacks and verbal murder. The message being that the minister is 'boss' (ie, the minister owns you - a psychopathic trait), and his wishes are never to be questioned or disobeyed. This is robbing members of the human and eternal lives. It's the ultimate crime.
The ministers are partial to church crazies and their boot lickers, even though they secretly despise both. Which is why they have they have their defenders like yourself.
1.20 PM
Since anyone you disagree with is 'just nuts,' no facts or line of reasoning can persuade you otherwise.
What if a poor man gets a blood transfusion from a rich man? Does that count as sodomy too?
1:20,
Years ago I read a thoughtful article by a science writer who wrote that he, like all science writers, frequently received papers by amateur scientists describing their crackpot theories. Naturally, he just threw them away but he sometimes worried that he might be rejecting the next theory of relativity. Finally he realized that the difference between the theory of relativity (which was considered crackpot by some at its publication) and the papers he received was Einstein pointed out areas of his theory that were amenable to scientific testing and verification while the crackpot papers always lay just outside the realm of testability. Thereafter he felt no pangs of conscience when he threw away the crackpot papers.
Here you are claiming that Satan does some undefined something each year before the feast. And you claim, with a wave of your hand, that your assertion is easily testable. Yet you don't seem to have ever tested it yourself because you don't seem able to provide the data for and results of such testing. When asked for your data, you divert attention from yourself by calling the requester closed-minded. Perhaps so, but surely there are other readers of this blog who are more open-minded and would like to see your data, if you had any. As it is, you have been exposed as one who makes great claims without evidence.
Today we are "just prior" to the feast when your Satan causes "some distracting event" that "often impact[s] the stock market". The American stock market closed yesterday at record levels and opened higher today. Perhaps this is Satan's sabbatical year.
Oddly, the events that have happened over the past three days, 1:09 seems to have been an attack on the type of musicians and fans that were banned by HWA. Mass murder at the Country festival in Vegas, and the unexpected death of Tom Petty. Kind of scary there were only 2, because these things generally happen in sets of 3.
But, bottom line is that the Feast goers don't get to feel attacked. Some of them probably even feel puffed up like the Pharisee in prayer, just based on limiting their choices to church-approved music.
BB
5.59 AM
I didn't keep a notebook of every major distracting event just prior to unleavened bread or the feast of tabernacles. So I'm not going to spend hours of my time going through old newspapers. Effort that can only benefit others.
But one event that does stand out. The dot.com bubble burst days prior to unleavened bread in 2000. I jumped out of the market and saved a bundle. Ah, if only I had known how to play puts in those days. I'd be on my yacht in the Caribbean drinking champagne with Jack Sparrow.
Einstein plagiarized everything he ever came up with. That is well documented. Read "Albert Einstein The Incorrigible Plagiarist" and stop admiring people the lying media and drunkenly stupid establishment put forth as great men.
5:59,
So you have gone from "It is easy to back test my point." to "I'm not going to spend hours".
Typical.
And your key case is an incident from 17 years ago... and instead of being prior to FOT, it was now before DUB?Well, with that kind of loose reasoning, every event must fall sometime before something! Unless it occurs on, maybe, Christmas Day, then that of course is God haplessly trying to tell "those people" something, right?
4.38 AM and 1.07 PM
When exposed to a new concept, it's your responsibility (not others) to examine the idea. It beats your redneck hillbilly reply. And drink less Shoe shine guys.
PS I meant moonshine.
3:23,
What's the matter? Angry that you are being exposed for having no proof for your claims?
What a moronic idea that the person exposed to new ideas from all sides is responsible for wasting time examining each of them with no help from the proponents of such ideas who appear unwilling or (more likely) unable to provide proof.
How many "new concepts" have you personally examined in the last year? In the last ten years?
And I have never tasted moonshine and have more academic degrees after my name than you do, including one from a small, defunct college in East Texas along with others from world-class universities.
10.33 AM
"Prove all things" means that it is a personal responsibility. By contrast it is church culture that members are spoon fed and the 'proving all things' thingy has already been done by the ministers. You are obviously in the latter category.
This isn't a minor concept as you imply. The implication here is that you have lost your eternal life. So there's no impartially on your part on this question.
Sorry, the idea that Satan tries to disrupt the feast each year is not a salvation issue. If you want me to believe it, you, who claimed it is so easy to prove, need to do the heavy lifting.
And you have no idea what and how much I have proven for myself.
Why should I do the heavy lifting if others are going to be the beneficiaries. Am I your paid teacher, instructor, minister? How are you going to pay me for services rendered? Or do you regard me as your personal slave?
No, I don't regard you as my personal slave. I regard you as an unchristian, boastful, arrogant fool.
You claim to have academic degrees, yet you sound like a manipulative schoolboy who lives in his parents basement.
Let's see, you come on here making a broad claim which you assert is "easily" verified. I ask for your evidence and all you can come up with is a single example that relates to a different holy day (DOB) than the one you made a claim about (FOT). Thereafter you sputter about how many hours it would take you to provide the proof that you claim is so easily found. And, instead of practicing "the give way of life", you want to be paid for any effort that benefits some other person and not yourself. And you like to call me names.
By the way, the stock market has been up and down the past week but nothing unusual. Satan must have taken the year off.
No, I'm not in my parents' basement. Although my parents, being in their 90s, have on several occasions needed physical assistance so I have stayed with them for a couple of extended periods (splitting the job with siblings). But I sleep in my old childhood bedroom on the main floor near their bedroom so I can be nearby if they need help in the middle of the night. They're doing about as well as can be expected at their age, thank you for asking. Currently I am at home and visiting them about once a week. I haven't been in their basement since June.
Having put aside a fair amount of money, I am mostly retired with a little consulting to keep my mind active. Earning academic degrees is a pain while you are doing it but can pay off financially in the long run.
Oh, I forgot to mention that I also regard you as melodramatic.
So with all your academic degrees, you still cling to the church cultures 'give way.'
And non of your (unspecified) degrees ever made you question this? Since you missed it, I remind you that the give way is the biblical game of the unjust steward.
Are your degrees in basket weaving or floral management or bagpiping?
Oh, you are the Trading Guy clown. I wondered but wasn't sure. But since you confirmed it, I must say that I also regard you as a moron.
You sound like a very unhappy person. Have you ever considered what the cause of that might be? Do you regret any of your life choices? Jesus promised peace to those who follow his way. Do you feel that peace? Does it make you feel peaceful to lash out at strangers on the Internet? Or are you addicted to the adrenalin rush? How is your blood pressure? Do you sleep well?
Perhaps I prefer the give way but I feel sorry for people who are addicted to anger.
11.36 AM
You have changed the subject and failed to answer any question of mine.
The laws of the land state that one must be licensed to play 'Doctor Phil' with others. Otherwise one is breaking the law. How come you don't know this? Is it because your degree is in hand embroidery and floral design? Or did you buy your degrees over the internet from the Indian degree mill?
Of course you prefer the give way. That is, others doing the giving while you do the getting. This makes you a crook. You sir, are a chicken thief. You can add chicken thief to the end of your degree qualifications.
Oh, did I change the subject? Then let's go back to your extraordinary claim and your total lack of proof for your claim. I'm more than happy to talk about your failings.
This conversation started when you made the bold but unsupported claim that Satan tries to disrupt the FOT. After claiming that your assertion is "easily" proved, but being unable to provide any proof except one example related to the DUB, you have resorted to distracting tactics and now increasingly ad hominem attacks. This is a poor example for someone who presumably calls himself Christian.
My background is of no importance in this discussion. Since you are the one making extraordinary claims, an impartial observer following this discussion would be more interested in your background than mine (assuming that anyone is still reading this thread besides poor, long-suffering Gary). So what is your background that qualifies you to pontificate on what Satan is or is not doing? You seem to have an in with Satan. How did that come about?
4.42 AM
What prompted my original post was the worst mass shooting in American history. It occurred a few days prior to the fest of Tabernacles on November 1. The Las Vegas gunmen killed 58 people and wounded 489.
My 'easily proved assertion' means that it's intellectually easy to read (internet)/newspapers days prior to previous FOTs to discern whether some event locally or internationally occurred. It is not my responsibly to spoon feed you on this point. Exercise your own duty of care on this and similar claims.
Don't you think the Las Vegas shooting took away from the spirit of the feat? That is, a glimpse and foretaste of a better tomorrow? I believe it did.
Many years ago, when I was in high school, before I ever heard of WCG, my family subscribed to the morning newspaper. On school days I didn't have time to read the paper in the morning so I read the comics and some of the news in the evening. On the page across from the comics was the horoscopes, printed in two columns with six signs per column.
One year as an experiment I read the horoscope each evening for my sign and also the one across from my sign in the other column, the sign six months away from my sign. I compared both readings to how my day had gone to see if they were accurate. I found that the reading for my sign and the reading for the other sign were about equally accurate in predicting how my day had gone (although neither was very good). So I rejected horoscopes as a predictor of the future.
If you are going to read the news a week or two or three before the feast looking for bad news that you can blame on Satan, you will usually find something. But unless you do the same for some other date (maybe the 4th of July, maybe your birthday, maybe some random day of the year), you can't say that bad news is more likely to happen before the feast than before any other day of the year. To make such a claim without using a control date leaves you open to confirmation bias (as someone else said near the beginning of this thread) or to plain, old wishful thinking.
As it is, even if you provided examples of bad news from past years no one trained in the scientific method would accept your conclusion without at least one control group to compare your data against, similarly to how I, even as an untrained high school student, knew to compare two horoscopes and discovered that they were equally bad.
I know this is long, but there is much research on how badly humans misuse statistics. I commend to you the book "Thinking, Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman (Noble Prize winner in Economics). I read some of the research behind this book in my graduate studies and used a small bit of it in some of the classes I taught in Big Sandy and elsewhere. We are all subject to confirmation bias and the other biases that Kahneman describes.
The purpose of the 'bad news' is to distract Christians from the spirit of holy days, typically Unleavened bread and FOT. So it must be a few days (not your 'week or two or three') prior to these feasts. Which also means it's likely to be a talking point among church members on these holy days. So the 'bad news' is not difficult to discern. As far as I'm concerned, the body of evidence is there. This might not stand up to strict sociological scrutiny, but that's the nature of everyday life. We use the limited information we have, our common sense, and make the best choice we can.
Demanding that everyone who disagrees with you present Nobel Prize quality proof is intellectually dishonest. I'm sure you don't demand the same from yourself in everyday life.
If a Hindu were to find similar events to occur before a Hindu holy day, would you accept the conclusion that the events were caused by Shiva?
I think I've said all I can say. You base your conclusions on what you want to be true. That's fine if you want to do that and accept the consequences but you shouldn't expect others to accept your claims.
Best of luck.
I have never said that I expect others to accept my claims. That is a dishonest straw man argument. Rather I express my beliefs in the hope that readers with ponder my point of view. Their conclusion is between them and God.
You should try expanding your cultural universe with a diversity of ideas, rather than shooting the messenger of these new ideas with accusations of believing "what you want to be true," and "expecting others to accept your claims." Shooting the messenger is not a Christian trait.
And you went/taught at Ambassador College?
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