Gerald Flurry continues to make idiotic comments and predictions to keep his fledgling flock fearful of impending doom. In Flurry's virulent hatred of Joesph Tkach Jr., his seething hatred lets his demons dream up many wild and fantastical scenarios for the end times, an end-times that Flurry believes Joe Jr. will initiate.
With decades of alcoholism destroying his brain cells, that mentally unstable mind has made several predictions over the last year that Joe Tkach Jr will soon be meeting up with President Trump and initiate plans in getting the Philadelphia Church of God and its members kicked out of the United States. That is one of the reasons PCG is now looking to open a new office in Jerusalem, but that is a subject for another time.
Flurry, like many other COG leaders and ministers, look at President Trump as the ideal man to be in that position. They feel that the entire world is going to hell and that temporary conservative leadership extends the return of Jesus just long enough to allow them to do a final push in getting their gospels out. Many of them look at Trump as the proper man to be in charge because he is white. Many COG leaders despised President Obama with a passion. The idea that a black gentile was ruling over them was appaling. We know this because many of them said so and also because of how they reacted when Mayor Bradley was the first African American mayor of Los Angeles. They found that abominable.
This all makes Satan really angry and he is starting to work overtime in bringing about persecution to the church. From being banned on Youtube, having Twitter accounts shut down, to being told they cannot preach on certain subjects, Flurry and other COG self-appointed leaders are preparing for intense persecution.
Herbert Armstrong, using Rod Meredith and Gerald Waterhouse as his mouthpiece, created such absurd scenarios that kept COG members in a constant state of panic and impending doom. From being tossed into concentration camps by the invading German armies to parents eating their children due to famine. I even remember being told in sermons how church members would be put on rockets and shot into space where they would die because the Catholic church hated us so. Then there was the story on how we would be hated so much that the U.S. government would put up on old jet planes that had cracks in the wings and force us to flee to Petra in them, with the hope the planes would crash. Satan was and still is sorely pissed.
The Church of God's leadership has always needed scare tactics to keep the gullible sheep in line and ready to dole out money for their end-time pushes and final witnesses. Of course, to add to fuel to the fire it is vitally important to still blame Joe Tkach Jr for all of their miserable failures. After over two decades of one failed prophecy after another, they need their demon to place blame on to sidetrack members from seeing their bitter truth.
Joe Tkach Jr has not been in charge of the church for over a year now and has zero interest in the pathetic personality cult ministries languishing out there. He also certainly has no interest in coddling up with President Trump in getting COG members kicked out of the country. The lies that these stinking turds tell their members make them more pathetic day by day.
From Gerald Flurry to Bob Thiel to Dave Pack and to Ron Weinland, the idiocy and false prophecies these fools make know no boundaries. No government will strike them down, only their own stupidity will do that.
It is time members wake up from their induced stupors and open their eyes to these lairs and leave them and along with their jets, campuses, and worn-out curtains.
65 comments:
Many Armstrongites seem to have a predilection for authoritarian leaders like Trump. They also see Trump as the epitome of real manhood. The insults, bullying, ruthlessness, philandering and lack of political correctness get their juices flowing. For them, he represents the good old days of white paternalism.
Trump and his supporters loved to speculate that Barack Obama wasn't even a real American - that he was born in Kenya instead of Hawaii (because his father WAS born in Kenya) and implied that he was a Muslim. Never mind the fact that there is incontrovertible proof that he was born in America (and that his mother was an American citizen when he was born), and that he and his family were faithful members of a Christian congregation for many years prior to their arrival in Washington. Trump also blamed Obama for the influx of Hispanics into the U.S. (despite the fact the greatest influx of Hispanic immigrants happened prior to his assumption of the presidency) and criticized his foreign policy as being wimpy (there's that manhood thing again).
Considering Trump's background, the attacks on Obama are more than a little ironic. A man whose paternal grandparents were born in Germany, whose mother was born in Scotland and whose wives were born in Eastern Europe - with no ancestral links to WWII or any of America's other wars (Obama's grandfather was a veteran of WWII, and his ancestral roots in America reach back four hundred years). Trump himself avoided military service because of bone spurs (yeah, he's a real man's man). Obama is the husband of one wife, a devoted father, and there has never been any hint of adultery. Trump, on the other hand, has had numerous high profile affairs and has been married three times.
In fairness to Flurry, he's not the only Armstrongite leader who has speculated about the respite from the inevitable apocalypse under Trump (many of them have made some reference to it). Unfortunately, none of these guys have a very good track record vis-a-vis prophecy, and I'm afraid they've missed the boat on this one too! The fact is that Trump has eroded respect for the rule of law, sharpened existing divisions in the U.S., weakened alliances and continued the ballooning of the federal deficit (he's certainly not a conservative in the William Buckley, Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan, George Will or Bill Kristol tradition). Yeah, I'm seeing another spectacular prophetic failure in the near future!
I had equipment in our local Democratic headquarters during President Obama's first run for the presidency. While servicing that equipment, I got to talk with a number of the volunteers staffing the phones. The most frequent question they had to answer was whether Obama was a Muslim (he is not). That was basically a Republican dirty trick perpetuated by Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, and apparently the majority of the voters did not believe it.
What I cannot understand is how conservative Christian voters could possibly back an amoral individual such as President Trump. But, then again, they were also taken in by President Nixon. I guess it doesn't matter how twisted these leaders are, just so long as they advance certain elements of the conservative agenda.
BB
Yeah Trump's gonna put aside running this country and his reelection campaign to get rid of some religious kook.BTW Im tired of all these anti Trumpssers He a far better president than Obama was Whoops O guess I'm a racist now
Members can't open their eyes. They don't want to open their eyes. They are too afraid of what they might see. They MUST remain in deep denial. How could people live for decades in near poverty supporting The WORK, seeing family members suffer needlessly and even die in some cases, because of a lack of health care, and then acknowledge that they were wrong and responsible for their suffering? To acknowledge their error would be more painful than to simply remain on the train ride (the cult) until it goes over the cliff (death). It is easier and less painful to remain with eyes closed, than to open their eyes and acknowledge that they were wrong and they contributed to a lot of unhappiness to those they love. Don't expect the church membership to decline due to defections, it will decline due to the member's death.
Members can't open their eyes. They don't want to open their eyes. They are too afraid of what they might see. They MUST remain in deep denial.
By now, nobody is in denial. People are making the conscious choice to remain in a toxic system because they fear even more the consequences of leaving. This is one reason why depression is now so common in the splinters. People know that most of the leadership is corrupt, and that the doctrines and prophecies are mostly bogus. Many rationalize that the basic pattern of Sabbath-keeping and selective law observance is harmless or even a good thing, so they might as well stay where they are and not lose their friends. But nobody with a brain and an internet connection privately denies the truth that WCG was a fraud and that it is possible to please God outside of the splinters. Why else do you think Gerald Weston rails against members keeping "double lives"? Nearly everyone in the splinters has one face for Sabbath/splinter activity and another face for true friends away from the church. if they didn't, they would go insane.
A great way to "hold your people" is to have an enemy, and have an end of the world scenario, along with some type of fear factor, with a "very soon, right around the corner" time element. It has worked in many cultures and nations, and throughout history.
The Global Warming people use this paradigm, as does Madison Avenue in a wide variety of products and pitches.
By raising the groups importance to being a target, it also reinforces the idea that they are all "very important", (which has an appeal to ones vanity) and especially so in regards to the leaders. Flurry wouldnt really want to confess that they are so insignificant that NO ONE even knows who we are, and we are not any radars of any kind, let alone Donald Trump. Heck, I doubt that even Joey, who profited mightily from the garage sale of old HWA items like the MOA, US/BC , the Swan Fountain from AC BS, candelabras, furnishings, even old desks from Imperial Schools, for multiple millions of dollars from Flurry, even gives a rats ass about Flurry either.
And one must ask, why would Donald Trump give an audience to a guy like Joey?? Joey, like Flurry, is an insignificant figure in the grander scheme of life too.
In the original post, it was stated..." they reacted when Mayor Bradley was the first African American mayor of Los Angeles"
Curiously enough, Tom Bradley and his wife , were subscribers to WCG literature, and even had ministerial visits from the WCG, with some degree of interest in the church. Bradley was given a seat of honor, in the fairly small seating area at the outdoor funeral for HWA back in 1986. Most of the 4000 other attendees , (church members) had to stand, out on a very hot, bright Southern California January day, with temperatures approaching towards 90. Bradley and his wife had shaded seats, about 4 rows back from the front, and were honored and escorted by WCG staff.
Im not sure what transpired over time, and any "Negro Empowerment" was always despised by HWA , who hung on to his late 1800s. early 1900s "Jim Crow" attitudes, but the WCG ended up having a very cozy relationship with the Bradleys.
Trump is going to win the next election by an extremely wide margin since NO ONE is really interested if Transgender men should be allowed to have abortions.
The Trump people focus on themes every American thinks of the moment the morning buzzer goes.
It is inconsequential whether I feel they offer the right solutions or not.
The Democrats Lost contact with what the average working person prioritizes.
nck
True on the Bradley's. People on this blog dont KNOW ANYTHING about how HWA felt about black people.
HWA, was as happy as a kid can be when Magic Johnson signed a basketball for hwa wearing his Lakers hat.
Nck
Nck, there were mixed messages put out by HWA on the topic of race. One of the main factors that drove HWA's existence was that he loved to meet and be seen by the rich, powerful, well known, and influential ones of the world. He considered those to be his proper peer group. This included individuals of all races. Obviously, he did not skip over African leaders in the 1970s, although much was said about these leaders as the African nations emerged from colonialism during the 1950s and '60s. I can see HWA basking in the attention of Mayor Tom Bradley or Magic Johnson. Both were very good at what they did. Frankly, I would have been much more impressed if HWA had gone down to Alabama and Mississippi to walk with Dr. King, like mainstream ministers and rabbis did, adding his voice to the cause. Instead, we heard disparaging remarks at sabbath services.
Obviously the overts from HWA were not all bad, or no black people would have ever been attracted to the WCG. But, he could have done so much more, by forgoing all the sermons and opinion pieces about segregation being God's way, and by being proactive earlier on in making sure that young black and Mexican-American people had opportunities at Imperial Schools and Ambassador College.
HWA, no matter what race any of us happened to be, seemed to be impersonal and dispassionate, detached from relationships. Someone much feared. An authority figure just waiting for an opportunity to swoop down and lambaste over the least little infraction. He assumed the authority of Jesus Christ without the interpersonal skills and elements that Jesus brought into the equation. The gist of it all is that in reading the gospels, reading about Jesus, it is very easy for one's compassionate and empathetic emotions to come into play. Tears are part of this. You really can't say the same thing about HWA. And, that's perhaps the greatest difference, and the missing ingredient.
BB
President Trump is on Americas side. He wants it to succeed. Obama by contrast, was and still is consumed with malice towards America. He wants it to fail, as his 'God damn America' minister famously said from the pulpit. It's under Obama that that the deficit and regulations exploded. It's he who is paternalistic. Trump by contrast has reduced regulations and taxes.
BTW, Obama just bought a $15 mansion on Mathas vineyard. An example of his double standard on his famous 'passing the wealth around' and 'how much is enough.'
I agree Nck.
NCK wrote: "dont KNOW ANYTHING about how HWA felt about black people"
That is a little extreme. We know what the policies of the WCG were and, at a minimum, HWA agreed with those policies or he would have abrogated them. He may have had personal feelings beyond these policies. It is these additional personal feelings that we don't know much about. Extrapolating from the policies, I would say any additional feelings he had were not likely to be positive.
I spoke with Rona Martin, who is Afro-American, once and I got the impression that she thought much of HWA. She was a nice lady.
Quakers generally had favorable attitudes towards minorities. But HWA never seemed very Quakerish to me. Like Byker said, he was no champion of Afro-American civil rights.
Gerald Flurry's idea that WCG/GCI will conspire with the federal government to expel PCG out of the nation is a rehash of an idea taught in chapter 4 of his 1991 booklet, The Lion has Roared. He cited some incident mentioned in the Book of Amos when a priest in Bethel told Amos not to preach there.
This idea is not just trash. It is recycled trash.
More on this topic here:
http://livingarmstrongism.blogspot.com/2014/05/reading-pcgs-lion-has-roared.html
Donald J. Trump: The humble rich man God chose to lead the USA. The Lord's anointed one. Wants to Make America Great Again (MAGA) and then Keep America Great (KAG). Always optimistic that good things can be done. Plans the future and then makes it happen. Standing tall.
Gerald R. Flurry: The bum Satan chose to lead his PCG impostor cult. Satan's drunken runt. Secretly hates HWA's teachings and changes them. Hates true Christians and slanders them. Hates families and wrecks them. Hates America and wants to see it destroyed. Predicts the future and gets it all wrong. Still coming up short in his elevator shoes.
No. Only if you behave in accordance with the part. Its really not hard to avoid if you have more than three brain cells.
Hatred of Tkatch?
If old Joe hadn't fired him, he probably wouldn't now be the grand poohbah of his own little xCOG!
The irony is that WCGers as well as many fundie Protestants always looked to Democratic presidents as the instruments God would use to "break the pride of our power", as they put it. Yet Donald Trump has done more to destroy American prestige than any Democrat. He has alienated us from our allies, including European allies, who will, of course, according to Armstrong dogma unite at some point and destroy Britain and the U.S. World leaders laugh at Trump while religious ignoramuses here in the states adore him. They think they are holding back American decline when in fact they are accelerating it.
Hatred of Tkatch?
If old Joe hadn't fired him, he probably wouldn't now be the grand poohbah of his own little xCOG!
Imagine if GRF was just one out of hundreds of nutty little men who went with UCG.
Thank you BB and NEO for elaborating.
Well my extreme wording demanded such I guess.
I read each and every article on the "Civil right issues", articles many like to extrapolate. EACH article dealt with "the COMMUNIST threat" and the "horors of civil unrest" . A rehash of what had expired in 1909-1920 USA when HWA was in his "educational years" with the teamsters.
I know of a leader who would NOT accept Jesse Owen's Olympic shirt or defeat by that sports hero. Now that was ideology. And that person would defenitely not get the (Mrs Martin) review.
For the rest I agree that HWA, was stuck in pretty old fashioned ideas, was not revolutionary regarding civil rights issues, abided by the racist standards of the time. But by testimony he seeked a better standard for the races. (by 19th century standards). I doubt this political leader I mentioned would shake hands with the African leaders even if they were powerful.
Or watch basketball for fun, extrapolating the Jesse Owen's experience.
I find myself in agreement with your later statements. I'd hate to think a splinter leader would come to "learn" today he should actually implement more racist policies since "hwa felt so."
Even some of the evil splinter leaders have seen the "19th century errors" hwa made and deemed some of them in supportable just by looking at the reality within their congregation. With further integration some would have to disfellowship entire congregations today if it it had been established "policy" rather than institutional racism.
Nck
Miller Jones
People respond to others on the basis of specific sins or shortcomings. People respond to what the core of what a person is. Cain killed Abel, and Abel wasn't perfect.
Anonymous 2/16 @ 7:38 PM,
I'm not sure about the meaning of your comment, but I will respond since it was addressed to me. Unfortunately, I think that most of us respond to others based largely on our perceived self-interest. Is the person like me? Does he/she agree with me or share my perspective on things? Can he/she protect or further my interests?
I would like to believe that we respond to the content of a person's character, but Martin Luther King Jr saw that as the ideal - the dream to be achieved at some point in the future. I have some personal experience to draw on in this regard.
For many folks, the fact that I am a homosexual eliminates any possibility that I could be a Christian - one of the saints. They respond to me on that basis - not taking into account the fact that I have been celibate for many years, live with my ex-wife, believe in God, study the Bible, have accepted Christ as my Savior and continue to observe the Sabbath. Hence, I would say that most folks don't respond to the total person - the core of who a person is. Unfortunately, I think that most of us are much too superficial to bother to dig that deep!
Cain killed Abel because he resented the fact that God had accepted his brother's offering while rejecting his own. Cain felt that he was superior to his brother, and that God was being unfair. Yes, neither one of them was perfect, but Abel was a better (more righteous) person than his brother (at least from God's perspective).
Miller Jones
I meant people don't respond to others on the basis of details such as divorce or certain sins. People respond to what others are at a foundational level. I quickly found this out when I started to date in my youth.
I found this to be true of HWAs ministers as well. They are like schoolyard bullies who target or leave others alone based on risk/reward. Which means that the church crazies are left alone, and the better members are picked on for not being 'more.'
When a false prophet like Gerald Flurry predicts something, it makes it almost certain that it will not happen.
You gotta be kidding me, nck! (And I hope you are!)
But, some of your comments are beyond the pale like you saying that "People on this blog dont KNOW ANYTHING about how HWA felt about black people."
There have actually been many quotes and links to sermons of HWA's on this blog that well present how Herb thought of "negros" and "negro" members, and the segregation he insisted upon.
7:45
I said that he abided by the segregation according to the laws of the United States and South Africa and some other 19th century ideas he had picked up along the road.
I did also say that MOST of the quotes from articles you mention are taken completely out of context and I explained in what manner in my earlier posting. I am not joking.
Your bias is proven by the manner you are using the word "negro" AS IF that was not the normal word to use in that day and age at that time and I would refer you to ALL of Dr King's speeches.
You are the one who would need to explain HWA's happy childlike reaction to an autograph by Magic Johnson or his lifelong interest in basketball for instance as if that other famous public figure I described could even stomack seeing one run by Jessy Owens.
I recently stumbled upon a black mans gift to his children. He had written his lifestory inlcluding his 50 years membership of the Church of God and his world at the Big Sandy College. This is about the closest I have seen to a true presentation of the facts.
I believe that book should not only be kept by his children but in the Library of Congress since it constitutes Americana in all its facets.
Completely different experience from the Liberian member who visited our congregation frequently, the Kenyan or Tanzanian churches, or the North London Church for that matter.
I sincerely hope you are not one of those whiners who ratted on the white Florida soccer coach because he sang along with 2 lines of rap song that played in the Locker Room and now faces firing.
I sincerely disrespect the person(s) who ratted about the coach singing the N word along with the rap song the black players were playing themselves.
My point.........there is no point but I will concede that my use of the word "ANYTHING" was extreme but I stand with my point on communism and hwa's work that rather emphasized "government and order" than racial inequality....his type of social justice was the American kind where people should raise themselves out of the pits. This indeed is frowned upon by the rest of the world where there is more emphasis on "structural and systematic" raising of the bar rather than individual prowess.
nck
7:45
I am going to rub it in though since I know that HWA particularly liked......
Elgin Baylor and Wilt Chamberlain and therefore acquired season passes.
nck
But I thought PCG was still trying to decide whether Trump was Jeroboam or Jeroboam II?
Anyway, just a few days ago I was coming out of a gas station... I'd just finished meeting with some affiliates so I was in a suit. Well, some white man who was coming in looked at me and shouted "TRUMP ALL THE WAY" at me as if he was expecting to start a fight. I just shrugged at him and went on to the car. Then he grumbled "I said Donald Trump, n****r."
Not the first time someones done that. I dont want to read too much into it, so I just assume they're legitimately stupid or at least mentally stuck in high school.
On the other hand, one night I was in a restaurant and some young guy ran in the door and yelled "Sand n****rs!!!" at the (Indian) staff. I dont recommend doing that at an establishment with Sikhs in attendance. He didnt look very good on the stretcher he ended up on. :)
NCK and all:
It has been rumored that HWA and GTA both attended Laker games on the Sabbath, on Friday evenings. Do you have any insight into this?
If a black person was high enough on the food chain, then HWA was certainly sanguine and accepting of them. Examples include Emperor Haile Selassie of Ethiopia, Jomo Kenyatta of Kenya, and King Sobhuza of Swaziland, (who as i recall, actually had an uncle who was a WCG member), or as you mentioned Los Angeles Lakers stars.
All the African Kings were lavished with Steuben Crystal, and dinners in their honor. Meanwhile, back on the ranch, poor black brethren "stayed, paid, prayed and obeyed" while having "equal but separate" dances, congregations (such as LA 1) , denial of entry to AC because of the "Negro Quota" , organizational glass ceilings and more.
Flurry and Trump share common ground in a predilection for authoritarianism as well as running scam "universities". Con artists gravitate to one another so they can share their audience of gullible marks, the white house "spiritual adviser" Paula White being the latest example to prey upon the president's loyal legion of suckers with her "prosperity gospel" bullshit.
Hello Tonto.
The people who went to eat steak with HWA after the game said that HWA sat 5 - 7 rows from the court dressed in sports jacket on Sundays.
I don't know the Lakers home schedule from the early seventies..... Sundays?
Nck
RSK
I'm praying for your cool man. Unfortunately God answered my prayer for you to remain cool by making you a person of color....... :-)
Stay cool man, your story sent shivers through my spine although most of my family over time looked into gunbarrels aimed at them, by children either in blue, green or brown helmets with different mandates to remain cool or respond. Never in suit like you.
Nck
Tonto.
Do you have any proof of "negro quota" for AC BESIDES there being enough "equally yoked" (men AND women) for social events and perhaps.... partnering?
HWA often spoke about the need to educate those that were not. It was more a social problem than a racial although administrators did not know the difference I agree.
Nck
Nck
HWA often railed against 'pulling yourself up by your bootstraps,' So your claim of him believing that 'people should raise themselves out of the pits' is untrue. Rather he claimed that 'God will fight your battles for you,' ensuring that people don't better themselves. Minister superiority and power lust prevailed in his church, so self betterment of the members in the broadest sense, was discouraged.
Your worship of HWA knows no bounds, and you have no shame in being his self appointed spin doctor.
NCK:
An old dear friend of mine, black, one of the first AC attendees back in the early 60s, related to me, many years ago , that at that time, they limited AC to 6 black men, with a corresponding amount of females. This is just a personal relating, and I cannot offer "proof" for a written policy for such.
Lots of things in the old WCG were done "off the cuff" and upon whim of upper management or of the Armstrongs themselves and were not written down in stone policies. . HWA specifically hated the STP by saying that he "would not be restrained by the limits of a printed document" and that (as the effective "Pope" of the WCG) had the right to change things or policy at will.
The Lakers in the 1960s and 70s and beyond, played 41 home games a year, and those games could occur on any day of the week, with nearly all contests being played in the evening.
My husband looked up the 1970-1971 Lakers schedule and told me that 17 of the 41 home games for the Lakers were held on a Friday night. Friday being a popular night for scheduling because of the next day being an off work day for many of the fans.
nck said... “I recently stumbled upon a black mans gift to his children. He had written his lifestory inlcluding his 50 years membership of the Church of God and his world at the Big Sandy College. This is about the closest I have seen to a true presentation of the facts. I believe that book should not only be kept by his children but in the Library of Congress since it constitutes Americana in all its facets.”
Ahh this sounds interesting nck. Has he published it? Is it available online?
Tonto at 3:38 PM said...“My husband looked up the....”
Hmm. Interesting.
Wonder if Kieran is hanging around and can give us any insight on the Jeroboam label...
One of the serious problems with supporting false prophets like Gerald Flurry or David Pack is that you are helping them to spread lies and to harm other people. Even if you yourself are a masochist and do not mind being used and abused by false prophets, this does not make it alright to help false prophets to use and abuse other people. Those who do evil through supporting false prophets like Gerald Flurry and David Pack are themselves still doing evil. They are not innocent.
False prophets like Gerald Flurry and David Pack have now departed so far from what HWA had taught that their supporters cannot honestly use the excuse that they are holding on to what HWA had taught. They might have initially thought that they were going to hold on faithfully to HWA's teachings, but they got totally scammed by these false prophets. They are now trying to grasp onto the drunken vomit of Gerald Flurry and the flying spittle of David Pack. They have lost their grip on reality.
False prophets like Gerald Flurry and David Pack can be as bad as apostates like the Tkaches, and sometimes even much worse. The apostate Tkaches led people along into apostasy. The false prophets like Gerald Flurry and David Pack led people along into utter perverseness.
From pcog.info
September 26, 1990
GERALD R. FLURRY
P.O. BOX 1787
EDMOND, OK 73083
RE: MALACHI'S MESSAGE To God's Church Today
Yesterday I received unsolicited in the mail the above publication along with Volume 1, Nos. 1-5 of The Philadelphia Trumpet. I wish to inform you that I challenge your copyright of 1990, printed on page one of MALACHI'S MESSAGE and other copyrights of this message in your other publications. Whether it was done unknowingly or deliberately, many of your ideas are a direct and clear plagiarism of my work The Letter to Laodicea which was in stages published from December '86 through January '88.
The first parts of what would be a seven part letter I sent to Mr. Tkach via registered/ certified mail beginning December 1, 1986 (see enclosed copy). Later, the entire seven part message was sent to--I believe--every evangelist in the Worldwide Church of God both here and overseas. And, not only to them, but this message was mailed to many, if not all, of the ministers at headquarters. Additionally, many local pastors or elders in the United States (a few overseas, too) were sent this information. I have the mailing list of the ones which were contacted. Furthermore, I sent The Letter to Laodicea to hundreds of WCG members living in the United States and also to a few overseas. I have kept the complete mailing list. Finally, every regional office of The PLAIN TRUTH was sent this message. Thus, the files of the WCG are filled with the message that I delivered to it.
When the bulk of the mailings were finished, I began to proclaim this Laodicean message to church brethren on the streets of Pasadena, beginning the Last Day of Unleavened Bread in the spring of 1988. The WCG has a photo record of every banner, every sign, that I have displayed. More than a few of "your" ideas can be found on my signs. Not only have thousands of local church brethren seen these messages but also many thousands of American and foreign members have viewed them during the Feasts of Tabernacles of 1988 and 1989. It's now been two and one-half years that every Sabbath with few exceptions I have held the Laodicean message before the church's eyes on the streets around its headquarters.
For you to make the statement on page 67 that Dr. Hoeh "stated that the Church of God has entered into the Laodicean era" and that, having said this in the Spring of '88, this message "was quickly stopped by Church leaders" is absolutely ridiculous. Not counting the letters I sent him, I PERSONALLY delivered the Laodicean warning to him--via my ten foot banner--on a sidewalk outside the Imperial Schools. He said, "Good afternoon," as he walked on by.
Again, much of your material plagiarizes what I have written. You will not be allowed to claim it as your own. I would advise you to settle this according to Matthew 5:25-26.
Jules Dervaes, Jr.
From:
Philadelphia Church of God Doctrinal Changes
at
https://hwarmstrong.com/church-of-god-info/PCG-Doctrinal-Changes.htm
“The PCG claims to be preserving Armstrong's written works but has reprinted less than 20 items of Armstrong literature. Even then, in some cases, edits have been made to pivotal points such as the 'very elect' and the role of prophets in the church. Far more Armstrong literature -- literally hundreds of items -- is available on the Internet for free from other sources. This includes old issues of The Plain Truth magazine, The Good News magazine, The Worldwide News newspaper, reprint articles, Envoys, sermons, sermon transcripts, telecasts, radio broadcasts, and many important booklets that the PCG does not make available.”
5.56 PM
Splinters leaders don't really lead their members. Using brainwashing and terror religion, the lord it over their flock. Dave Packs 'give me all your money or no salvation for you,' is extortion.
3:34
I do agree that HWA considered the 7th law of success the most important. The Wwn did also list successful high school students and other member accomplishments every 2 weeks. HWA did ask his friend "I did well didn't I" , on campus tour. To me that was a teaser into an introduction of the 7th law...... HWA was "advertising in the flesh.... so I "know" it was a teaser not a measure of his success and the standards of the guest.
"Self betterment" is in most cases the psychological driver for directors without a formal education...... and perpetual insecurity vs the educated members of their staff.
Nck
My Freshman year at AC was 1966-67. At that time, the black students who attended were married students who lived off campus, not in the dormitories. I did get to know Mr. Tom Hall somewhat, and he later went on to host a talk show, I believe, on KFI.
Sophomore year 1967-68, we had our first Hispanic student, Bob Flores, who iirc., lived off campus with his parents, his dad being an elder.
By the time that my younger sister, and later, younger brother attended, (late '70s to early '80s), the student body had belatedly begun to display more diversity. Single "non-Israelite" students were admitted, and resided in the dorms on campus. My sibs never made me aware of any quotas, but that sounds like the kind of begrudging or half-assed concession the leadership would have made to keep the feds off their backs. Plus, quotas usually accompanied court orders for the public schools to integrate, so being the quitessential plagiarist, it would not have been out of character for HWA to glom onto that. The marshalls and National Guard had forced the integration of schools and colleges in the South in compliance with the Civil Rights Act. James Meredith had made headlines in the very early 1960s as the University of Mississippi was forced to admit him. HWA should have taken his cues from that, but apparently it took another twenty years for him to get a clue. Uncle Roddie used to joke about James being his cousin.
GTA, I know was a Lakers fan. I recall a little anecdote from the 1970s campus underground about GTA coming home drunk from a Lakers game one night, to discover one of his sons stoned on grass. Apparently a hypocritical reprimand ensued. Too funny! You can't make this stuff up!
BB
Nck
High school students doing well is not a threat to minister power. Members were permitted to grow along certain narrow corridors such as public speaking. Church teachings were informally compartmentalized, so quoting instances of what Herb said paints the wrong picture. The despotic church culture was against members truly maturing. The ongoing assaults on members self esteem, self respect, poise, self confident etc is proof of this.
Thanks for your Ziggy Freud analysis of self betterment.
Jules
Thank you for your interesting post. But I can't help wandering whether your complaint parallels the Star Wars Vs. Silent Running movie court case. The makers of Silent Running claimed Star Wars had stolen ideas from their movie and the 1940s Buck Rogers series. The Star Wars makers won the court case by pointing out that the ideas in these movies go back thousands of years. As Solomon said, what's new under the sun?
Err Tonto you have proclaimed repeatedly to be a man. So you have a husband ? He looked up stuff for you.
Yep your a female. That's for sure.
11:59
I do agree with you in a way. Certainly against a measurestick of absolutes like maturing or liberty. In our area even AC graduates would not get a chance to speak more widely or be involved in recruiting more members than the span of control of the one payed minister. So I get what you are saying.
The level one was affected depended on MANY factors, like age or education.
In our particular area members from extreme conservative christian groups joined, deeming wcg "a breath of fresh air", as in an emphasis on education and it's ok to look at a tv program and a beer once in a while. In my particular case my parents joined from the 1960's adventists, which by now has evolved into a happy church it seems, but was at the least cultist still in the 1960's providing no answers for outside of the boxers.......as armstrongism did in a way. (although I see my adventists family still post ALL conspiracy theories available on facebook fighting all kinds of disease with curcuma and boiling water :-) :-))
I am/was by nature indeed more focussed on the "written" texts by hwa (or rather biblical quotes) than the "oral" texts by ministers or "practical application of the same", therefore I found the wcg experience enlightening up to a certain level, as I was never confronted with the proverbial minister looking through ones cupboard to see if it was "clean." If such behavior had not been described by HWA or sanctioned by scripture I would tell anyone to piss off regardless of rank. A speech from a high ranking evangelist like Waterhouse for me was "speculation all along" since well frankly, I could not find his elaborations described plainly in the bible.......but it was a fun day to see friends and eat out and hear how things MIGHT be.
nck
Tonto typed away "My husband looked up the Lakers schedule.."
I would have thought a couple from the UCG Ministry would have better things to be doing ?
How many congregations have you built up lately ?
How many brethren have left under your rule?
Is this living like the apostles ?
Is this displaying leadership skills?
But of course we must worry our minds over long dead men possibly attending a Lakers game possibly on a Friday.
Anonymous said...
Nck
High school students doing well is not a threat to minister power. Members were permitted to grow along certain narrow corridors such as public speaking. Church teachings were informally compartmentalized, so quoting instances of what Herb said paints the wrong picture. The despotic church culture was against members truly maturing.
That's an accurate analysis in hindsight. If one was a decent speaker, it was assumed they were or could be "converted" enough to give a sermonette and invited up. If one was a good speaker but a bit of an independent thinker and not given to just following the party line, not so much. As noted in the past, the Church culture, meaning the Armstrongs and those close to them were not given to growing in either grace, which seems out of reach of legalists and certainly not knowledge, which is a downright threat to the status comfy quo.
Besides, truth came from the top down and compliance, agreement and support from the bottom up. Those who got those two directions confused were usually dis-membered over time or at least marginalized within the congregation and even the ministry.
Ministerial Refresher Programs were designed to keep tabs on some and remind all of how it works . Of course, this is in the hindsight of time but seems so looking back. Refresher programs were exhausting and lame.
Byker,
It seems you were at AC at the most interesting time. You would have known some that are currently leading the larger splinter cogs (e.g. Jim Franks, Vic Kubik, Dave Pack, though Flurry was before your time). You probably knew D. Diehl and Leonard. Was L Hendrix there at the time? Tkach? Anyway, a good perspective. You should write a book.
12:58,
A lot of people in the COGs stay in the COGs by telling themselves or when in discussion with others that they aren't following HWA. But, this is poppycock as the HWA alone is the foundation and the final argument for many of the beliefs and assumptions of those in the COGs even as they assume their belief is fully based in scripture.
Showing the hypocrisy/corruption of these long dead men is necessary to show people the foolishness of having beliefs based on the sinking sand teachings of these men.
2:18 PM wrote:
Showing the hypocrisy/corruption of these long dead men is necessary to show people the foolishness of having beliefs based on the sinking sand teachings of these men.
That's not enough. People who have been in Armstrongism for 30+ years already know that HWA was a corrupt fraudster. They don't believe what he taught. They also don't want to start their lives over as if they were 18 years old again and lose their friends and family associations.
The Internet has already slashed the recruiting rate of new members joining the ACOGs, but it will take a couple more generations for the family-based ACOG affiliations to die out.
1:07 ~ Yes, that was an interesting time to be at AC. For one thing, those were the very last "innocent" years of the WCG. Most of the people (whether right or wrong) still walked the talk. Loma Armstrong died while I was a student. I believe things began to change shortly after that. In the early '70s, as we were trending to the "disappointment", the dissidents came into play, there were the high profile scandals, and marijuana began to creep into campus and church life.
I knew Vic Kubik to talk to, but not all that well. Flurry was a married student living off campus. His brother Don had been a cool friend at SEP, and Gerald acted as a surrogate father to him, really bullied him around. Dave Pack was a freshman my sophomore year, and I really didn't like the vibes he exuded even back then, so avoided him like the plague. Never so much as said "Hi" to him all year. Never heard of Jim Franks until I first signed on at Painful Truth about twenty years ago. I had never heard of Lonnie during those days. He must have come along later. I missed Dennis by about a month. He was a freshman during what would have been my junior year. But, his wife's brother I knew for many years, starting at SEP, and then also at AC. I knew and liked the Tkaches. Have no idea who Leonard is.
The people here at Banned whom I knew back then are Glenn, and Jim-AZ. Both good guys. Monte Wolverton was a good friend, and I worked for and liked Ellis LaRavia. Gerald Weston was a year ahead of me. Steve Elliott was somewhat of a friend. Orlin Grabbe was a dorm mate, and we were pretty good friends. The thing about all of these people is, we had no clue what they would go on to achieve in later life. I realized that Orlin was gifted intellectually, as an example, but had no idea how smart he actually was. Dr. Bob Kuhn was also a married student living off campus, and though we shared some classes, I really never got to know him. I did like his Porsche, and he did have a very pretty and gifted wife,
To us, every day was the routine. Slice of life for the era. I must confess that I deliberately avoided, whenever possible, those who were gung ho about the work and the college because in most cases, those were the sticklers for the rules, who would report you for your infractions, Most of the people with whom I let down my guard were those with whom I had shared secular interests, having been able to do things in their lives that my church upbringing hadn't allowed. I did have a better friend than I had realized in my dorm monitor sophomore year who was quite gung ho, but prior to coming to AC, I believe he had been one of the Teddy Boys over in England. He had been into the British motorcycles (what else) like Triumphs and BSAs. I think he was one of the few righteous people on campus who actually understood me. Him and Ellis LaRavia, and perhaps Dr. Zimmerman.
Any way, it was a fun two years, it was kind of a nice safe buffer against Vietnam, and all of the hippie crap that was going on all around us, and there were actually some things that I did learn in class and from my fellow students that have stood the test of time, and enhanced my life. If I had it all to do over again, most likely I would have gone to a good college or university, and studied mechanical engineering so that I could be designing machinery rather than selling it, and working on it, and training people as to how to use it. I got out of the cult early, and what came later hasn't been a bad life. Engineering would have definitely optimized my talents and interests, though.
BB
Flurry is an idiotic dumb drunk midget who wants to be anointed KING over the entire world on the stupid rock he dug up out of a farmer's field and had hauled to his compound. If that doesn't scream bat shit crazy I don't know what else will. Next, he will convince his slaves to drink the horse tranquilizer and get ready to go to the spaceship behind the next convenient comet that comes along. People like Flurry, Pack, Theil, Weston et al, can't understand what's happening around them because they will not listen and they will not change. They are suffering from the Law of Primacy, which states that what you learn first is what you remember best. HWA taught them all incorrectly, but they don't care, as to them HWA is god. The Law of Recency teaches us that what is learned most recently is what is most retained. Flurry resists this Law and clings to his HWA-induced error. That is why he has been left behind, and is why the Hall of Admin was torn down for all to see.
Trump is the King of the North, leading the USA/NATO/Zionist alliance into direct conflict against Iran, the King of the South. He moved the Embassy, directly attacked Syria, gave Israel the Golan Heights and will next cause the final Temple to be built. (Dan 11:40) Flurry understands ZERO of these facts, and never has. He is nothing in the grand scheme of things and will go down in history as another HWA knob-polisher like the rest of them.
Search the book "The Last President"
LXX
LOL, LXX! Has another Weinland, Thiel, or Pack descended upon us? Another crazy theory by yet another individual who thinks he can be the "Elvis" of Armstrongism?
People have come to us before in the same spirit. Unfortunately, you have just lost all your credibility as a poster. It just hasn't sunken in for you yet.😜
BB
its astonishing to me how certain posters here are so blinded by their sanctimonious attitudes to not grasp the concept that the Creator can fulfill His words right under their noses and they are so blinded by their own crappy attitudes that they can't see it happen, even though it's right in their faces. That's the REAL Armstrong attitude. I despise HWA/WCG and everything that goes along with it. He caused serious damage to my family, some of which are still stuck in that filth to this very day, in the LCG. I found this blog while researching who Rod McNair was.
Certain posters here, one who thinks the world will continue on for another 220 years, are blinded by the facts on the ground as they relate to prophecy. Unlike Theil, Weinland or Pack, I have never claimed to be a prophet nor do I have any plans to make such a ridiculous claim. However, that does not mean that I do not watch current events and try to line them up with scripture, such as the G7 (seven heads) and the Club of Rome having divided the planet in ten zones (ten horns). Like I said, right in front of their faces and they cannot accept that the Creator is fulfilling His words exactly as He said thousands of years ago. That disbelief is what led to the collapse of the WCG and has led to hundreds of splinters. Thank God I am no longer a part of that nonsense. But unlike a certain atheist here I have decided to not throw the baby out with the filthy bathwater. Just because HWA was a sexual pervert and false prophet, does not mean I have lost my faith in the Messiah or scripture.
Just wait til Trump calls for the Temple to be built in Jerusalem. I am certain he supports the Greater Israel Project as well.
LXX
The Last President:
https://www.groundzeromedia.org/2-17-20-trump-and-the-quantum-wager
LXX
I love what you are posting LXX.
Time travel, quantum mechanics, amazing book about Baron by that 1890 lawyer.
I do follow the script as outlined in the Bible like a movie scenario. Although admittedly from a completely secular viewpoint.
The only thing I find creepy is that I am corresponding with a man who responds with 2 kisses xx or perhaps Roman numerals that correspond with a demon called legion.
Anyway. I like it, as long as it is on topic.
Nck
nck "Anyway. I like it, as long as it is on topic."
Well, there goes that pot calling the kettle black. When have you ever remained on topic?
11:02
I'm not calling anyone anything. I am just expressing an opinion. Thank you for your feedback though. Continuous feedback loop is what propels humanity forward and you are at the vanguard of that development, thank you for propelling humanity forward on behalf of mankind.
Nck
LXX said: “How owever, that does not mean that I do not watch current events and try to line them up with scripture, such as the G7 (seven heads) and the Club of Rome having divided the planet in ten zones (ten horns).”
Iirc doesn’t Steven Collins advocate a similar interpretation as LXX?
nck said...
I love what you are posting LXX.
Time travel, quantum mechanics, amazing book about Baron by that 1890 lawyer.
I do follow the script as outlined in the Bible like a movie scenario. Although admittedly from a completely secular viewpoint.
The only thing I find creepy is that I am corresponding with a man who responds with 2 kisses xx or perhaps Roman numerals that correspond with a demon called legion.
Anyway. I like it, as long as it is on topic.
Nck
February 19, 2020 at 10:23 AM
Thanks Nck.
I posted the article in reference to Trump etc, but I'm not into the time-travel stuff. However, Tesla is full of surprises, even from the grave.
I don't get your not understanding of LXX. I tried to choose a meaningless handle but it does have significance. I will spell it out for you if you wish.
LXX
Blogger nck said...
11:02
I'm not calling anyone anything. I am just expressing an opinion. Thank you for your feedback though. Continuous feedback loop is what propels humanity forward and you are at the vanguard of that development, thank you for propelling humanity forward on behalf of mankind.
Nck
February 19, 2020 at 11:16 AM
wow 11:02!!!
you just received the greatest bitch-slap I have ever seen here on Banned, and it was well-deserved!
LXX
I was kidding/lighthearted on the LXX call sign. X being the international "kiss" sign in conjunction with your at times manly way of expression. :-) I go with "Septuagint" now (as in Roman numerals.)
I was not aware of the wierd similarities to current affairs in the 1890's book. I was more into the wizard of Oz and the gold standard for a great narrative.
Nck
nck said...
I was kidding/lighthearted on the LXX call sign. X being the international "kiss" sign in conjunction with your at times manly way of expression. :-) I go with "Septuagint" now (as in Roman numerals.)
I was not aware of the wierd similarities to current affairs in the 1890's book. I was more into the wizard of Oz and the gold standard for a great narrative.
Nck
February 19, 2020 at 6:56 PM
Nck, you are correct. I chose "LXX" as a tag because it represents the Septuagint, but that is not the real meaning. I believe that there never was any such "septuagint" in its accepted form, and my tag represents a deeper study into scripture. Really it means nothing.
LXX
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