Now that Dave Pack has once again proven he is an epic failure in predicting the return of his creature he calls Christ, he has more excuses as to why it has delayed coming to Wadsworth to walk the hallowed grounds of Dave's compound, as the two of them plan its 3rd coming.
Take Comfort—Be Encouraged Monday
It is now evident God did want us to “observe” all the remaining days of Abib following Passover. He clearly does want to build His third (spiritual) temple in the same month He started the first and second physical temples—in Iyar, also called Zif! As also mentioned in the previous announcement, the apostles’ question about restoring the Kingdom during Iyar now indicates they understood more about timing than we previously thought.
Know that all Greek and Hebrew words—melle, mahha, mikron, tachu and others—are still very much in play. Pestilence is peaking. We have done the will of God per Hebrews 10:36 and must now exercise patience. Verse 37 is now truer than ever: “Yet a little while, and He that shall come will come, and will not tarry!”
God has a set date for His Son’s Return to Earth. Christ Himself said “of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only” (Matt. 24:36). But understand! Even if we do not know the specific moment He will come, we are close. We must be. This verse must work together with those referenced in the previous paragraph.
We have come a long way. It has been a wonderful—and sometimes hard!—journey. But if we have made it this far, many verses suggest our status is settled. A brief announcement can only say so much, but think of Revelation 22:10 where it states “the time is at hand.” Immediately following in verse 11, God declares that “he that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.” The latter half of this verse is a picture of people SETTLED in a righteous and holy condition! You can be confident God has His little flock in mind. And it is right after this in verse 12 that Christ says, “And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be,” further underscoring we are settled NOW!
And then there is Revelation 3:10. We have kept the word of Christ’s patience, so He promises to keep us from the hour of trial—which again points to being settled.
We leave you with one more indicator of Iyar by returning to Matthew 24: “But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be” (vs. 37-39).
Genesis 7:11 shows this day when the Flood came—tied to the “coming of the Son of Man”—was “in the second month,” which is Iyar. This was carefully recorded for a reason.
Brethren, it should give us great peace knowing Christ could literally return at any time. Let us continue to do our part and remain spiritually awake until the “day and hour” we all long for!
37 comments:
Pitiful, jus' pitiful!
sounds like he's about to default on some loans...
Pack seems to have gone worse.
Dave says:
"Take Comfort—Be Encouraged Monday"
TRANSLATION: MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACKING
It is now evident God did want us to “observe” all the remaining days of Abib following Passover. He clearly does want to build His third (spiritual) temple in the same month He started the first and second physical temples—in Iyar, also called Zif!
OBSERVATION: DAVE IS EXCELLENT PLAINLY SEEING THE TRUTH LOOKING BACKWARDS. FORWARDS? NOT SO MUCH.
As also mentioned in the previous announcement, the apostles’ question about restoring the Kingdom during Iyar now indicates they understood more about timing than we previously thought.
OBSERVATION: ANYONE UNDERSTANDS MORE ABOUT TIMING THAT DAVE, NOT "WE" PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT. DAVE HAS ALWAYS HAD THE WONDERFUL TRAIT BEFORE NOTHING HAPPENS THAT HE IS SURE WILL THAT "I" SEEMS TO KNOW IT AND "WE" DON'T. IT IS ONLY WHEN IT FAILS AGAIN THAT HE USES "WE"
Know that all Greek and Hebrew words—melle, mahha, mikron, tachu and others—are still very much in play.
COMMENT: NO THEY AREN'T AT ALL
Pestilence is peaking.
COMMENT: NO IT IS NOT. PESTILENCE HAVE WE ALWAYS WITH US.
We have done the will of God per Hebrews 10:36 and must now exercise patience. Verse 37 is now truer than ever: “Yet a little while, and He that shall come will come, and will not tarry!”
COMMENT: NO YOU HAVEN'T AND THAT SCRIPTURE WAS WRITTEN 2000 YEARS AGO TO THEM NOT YOU. IT IS ONE THAT SHOWS HOW, LIKE YOU, MISTAKEN THE FIRST CENTURY APOSTLES WERE IN THEIR COMPREHENSION OF "TIMING"
God has a set date for His Son’s Return to Earth. Christ Himself said “of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only” (Matt. 24:36). But understand! Even if we do not know the specific moment He will come, we are close. We must be. This verse must work together with those referenced in the previous paragraph.
We have come a long way.
COMMENT: AND YOU KNOW THIS? "WE ARE CLOSE"? NO, NOT EVEN CLOSE. PROBABLY NOT EVER
CON'T
CON'T
It has been a wonderful—and sometimes hard!—journey. But if we have made it this far, many verses suggest our status is settled. A brief announcement can only say so much, but think of Revelation 22:10 where it states “the time is at hand.” Immediately following in verse 11, God declares that “he that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.” The latter half of this verse is a picture of people SETTLED in a righteous and holy condition! You can be confident God has His little flock in mind. And it is right after this in verse 12 that Christ says, “And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be,” further underscoring we are settled NOW!
COMMENT: THE COMMENTS IN REVELATION WERE ALSO NOT DIRECTED TOWARDS YOU DAVE. THE "SOON" AND "QUICKLY" WAS FOR THEM, NOT YOU OR US. IT WAS ALSO MISTAKEN AND A VERY FAILED PROPHECY OF THE FIRST CENTURY. THERE IS NO INDICATION THE AUTHOR OF REVELATION THOUGHT HE WAS LYING TO THE AUDIENCE OR THAT SOON AND QUICKLY OR OF THE THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS WERE ANYTHING BUT TRUE STATEMENTS TO THEM OF THAT TIME. THERE IS ALSO NO REASON TO BELIEVE IN "DUALITY" THAT'S JUST STUFF YOU MAKE UP TO PRETEND YOU CAN USE THE SAME WRITINGS TO PROMOTE YOUR OWN SOON TO FAIL MINISTRY AND CHURCH
And then there is Revelation 3:10. We have kept the word of Christ’s patience, so He promises to keep us from the hour of trial—which again points to being settled.
We leave you with one more indicator of Iyar by returning to Matthew 24: “But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be” (vs. 37-39).
COMMENT: THE "WE" OF REVELATION IS NOT YOU OR US. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD.
Genesis 7:11 shows this day when the Flood came—tied to the “coming of the Son of Man”—was “in the second month,” which is Iyar. This was carefully recorded for a reason.
Brethren, it should give us great peace knowing Christ could literally return at any time. Let us continue to do our part and remain spiritually awake until the “day and hour” we all long for!
COMMENT: "If you are willing to accept that the story of Noah's flood in the Bible is a re-telling of a flood myth that appears in many different ancient cultures, then the flood that inspired these flood myths probably took place around 2800 B.C. near Shuruppak, an ancient site close to the modern Iraqi town of Tell Fara."
OR: "The placing of a catastrophic global flood in the year 2304 BC means that all civilizations discovered by archaeology must fit into the last 4,285 years"
https://creation.com/the-date-of-noahs-flood
THIS IS ABSURD. GIVE IT UP DAVE. YOU ARE 100% WRONG ABOUT 100% OF THE THINGS THAT COME 100% OUT OF YOUR HEAD. JUST OBSERVING HERE...NOT SCOFFING...RELAX...BREATHE.....
PS The all caps are not yelling. It merely indicates Dave's comments vs my own. Can't do it any other way far as I can tell in comments.
"we are close"
With some wiggle room, "we are closer" would be less damaging.
Following a previous prophetic blunder involving a month on the Hebrew calendar, Dave remarked that the Apostles expected things to happen in their time, and HWA, well, we know about his bungles. Dave's comforting excuse was that we were "2000 years closer than the Apostles" and "x years closer than HWA". Unless he's trying to hit a moving target.
SING ALONG TIME: SING ALONG TO THE TUNE ... "I WILL FOLLOW HIM"
Peggy March (1963) and the movie "Sister Act"
https://youtu.be/VPpd-6X3tEo?t=100
Pack, I WON'T follow you...
Follow you anywhere, you may go...
Your ideas aren't much, very cheap
Your ego is so high, it can Creep
They keep me away!
I WONT follow you...
Ever since you touched my wallet, I know
That far from you I always must be
And ignoring you is the key...
You aint my destiny!
I hate you I l hate you I l hate you and where you go
I won't follow, won't follow, won't follow
From now until forever, forever, forever
Apparently Dave Pack's parents taught him how to debate and argue, but not how to be right. They failed to teach him to respect other people and their property. They failed to teach him not to lie and steal.
As parents, they were colossal failures, and other people's children are now suffering the tragic consequences of their complete and utter failure to teach proper behavior and right character to Dave Pack.
I know very little about Pack - what I do know makes me think that he can be easily and validly categorized as a typical Millerite. I am willing to trust Dennis' assessment on this.
You may regard this as a sidebar, but I would like to tease out a statement that Dennis wrote for further consideration. Dennis wrote: "THE "SOON" AND "QUICKLY" WAS FOR THEM, NOT YOU OR US. IT WAS ALSO MISTAKEN AND A VERY FAILED PROPHECY OF THE FIRST CENTURY."
I take exception. I hate to get exegetical because I know it bores lots of people, but... All of the chronology that I know of dealing with the Second Coming is relative save one scripture. For example, "I come quickly" does not provide us an absolute chronology it only gives a relative chronology. This is made even less certain by the statement in 2 Peter 3:8: "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
This tells us that the divine view of "quickly" or "soon" may not be ours. We only live a few decades. We're all short-timers.
But the repeated assertion from critics is that Christ said to his followers that he would return in a single generation. Use of the term "generation" gives us not an absolute Millerite date but it does give us an absolute span. We can safely assume that everyone of that referenced generation is long dead. And critics are avid in pointing out that Christ did not return within the allotted time period as promised. But this is what Mat 24:33-34 actually says (NET Translation):
"So also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."
"All these things" is a phrase, from context, that refers to the 70 AD events. This phrase is used twice in the passage and it clearly excludes the return for Christ as something that is to happen in the range of one generation. The first sentence cited above draws this distinction. Instead the scripture invokes relative chronology ("near") to describe The Return while the 70 AD events are bound by absolute chronology ("generation").
The Church, without our later perspective and including Paul, misunderstood this. Interestingly, the Church down through the ages has never tried to hide any of this. The misunderstanding is undeniably there for all to see and learn from. (One of the reasons I am not a literalist - only fundamentalists and atheists cherish literalism for their different reasons). Its not like this slipped by the Church for millennia only to be discovered by Bart Ehrman when he was an undergrad. The Church always knew it was an issue.
So, it was not a failed prophecy. It is just that its fulfillment is yet pending.
As parents, they were colossal failures,
I happen to know Dave's brother, who is a good guy, so your conclusion just shows your ignorance.
Sometimes a bad seed is just bad, with nothing to do with parenting.
km
Dave is clearly guessing, and consistently making wrong guesses. How long will his members continue to find this acceptable? Unless he blows it criminally like Ron Weinland did, the majority will probably stick with Dave as long as he lives.
BB
Anonymous said...
As parents, they were colossal failures,
Oh Really?
I had a discussion with Dave's Sister years ago, and she was disgusted at the cheating, lying, and threatening actions of her brother Dave. She couldn't believe he was a minister!
Frankly...Neither could I!!
She seemed pretty decent to me, another witness to your ignorance!
Sister? Interesting. I didn't know he had a sister. I know his brother but a sister must have laid pretty low. Maybe he does...
Dave Pack indeed has a sister, and she is about the most kind, giving and loving person you would ever want to meet. A true saint who has helped several. She has nothing to do with her brother or his whacked out ideas.
NEO:
Thanks for the nice explanation of Mat 24:33-34 and Paul's misunderstanding. Can you share your thoughts regarding Mark 9:1?
Gary, thanks for removing the pos comment. I'd much rather not get into an argument here, but as you know I will stand my ground if I have to.
km
Liam, as I said Bill, like his sister, is a good person, not like his brother David.
km
KM No problem. The issue happens when I approve comments with my iPhone. I can not see all of the comments. Then when I sign on to the laptop or computer I see the rest of the response I deleted the ones that started it all...at least I think I have. If there is another one, let me know.
Yes, indeed, Dave Pack's parents definitely failed with that one. Maybe they had better luck with other ones.
Anyone who thinks that Dave Pack's parents raised him successfully must be totally nuts. If that is succeeding, imagine what failing would be like.
Do people have to raise a Hitler or a Stalin before others can see and admit that something did not work out well?
"If that is succeeding, imagine what failing would be like."
I guess I would have to conclude that your parents didn't do a very good job either, seeing that you're quick to blame everything on the parents.
I had to say that just to point this one thing out, because in reality it would make no sense for me to blame your parents for the ass that you've become. That falls on you and you alone.
Mr. Pack, Mr. Pack, Mr. Pack. The month of Iyar now? I thought it was "impossible" for Jesus Christ to return in any other month than Abib. And I thought it was "impossible" for Christ to not delay his coming beyond the Sabbath before Passover. Then I thought it was "impossible" for Jesus Christ to return on any other night than Passover night. Then I thought there were no other possibilities for Christ's return except the 7th day of Unleavened Bread.
You pleaded with us to reason together with you and we concluded that impossible means impossible and no other possibilities means no other possibilities.
And now you tell us we are settled when you have unsettled us the whole month of Abib. We stayed up all night on the last Sabbath this side of the return of Christ and it turned out to be just another lost night of sleep. We fretted the whole night of Passover because you told us we might have taken it unworthy and this is what Jesus was looking for on our last ever Passover before he would return.
And now you tell us WE need to have patience. We are sorry Mr. Pack, all we can say is that it was so impossible and there were no other possibilities that we thought we didn't need any patience.
Thanks for letting us know that we are holy and righteous in our present condition.
Anonymous (2:59)
Mark 9:1: "And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, there are some standing here who will not experience death before they see the kingdom of God come with power.""
Note that the witness is of the Kingdom of God. It does state a reference to the logistical Return of Christ. The inclination is to deduce that if the Kingdom of God has come then Christ's logistical Second Coming has happened. But the Kingdom of God broke with power into our reality ideologically and in spirit during Christ's lifetime. (Matt 12:28, for example.) The Armstrongist interpretation was always that this statement referred to the Transfiguration since it seems to be almost a preface to that event in the structure of the scripture. I favor a different interpretation. The "power" of the Kingdom was manifest through the resurrection of Christ, the bestowal of the Holy Spirit and the establishment of the Church - the Body of Christ on earth.
Note: I am a Christian lay member and speak and write with only that background.
NEO
Your 8.14 PM comment is the stretched/tortured interpretation of the Bible. This device is rampant in apostate books. If this use of tortured language was used in everyday life, people would not be able to understand one another. I'II stick with the plain understanding of language, thank you.
Erratum:
In my previous post I wrote:
"It does state a reference to the logistical Return of Christ."
This should have read:
It does NOT state a reference to the logistical Return of Christ.
Thanks.
Ok. Thanks km
6:17 PM said...“...for the ass that you've become.”
Calm down. There is no need for your angry, foul-mouthed insults.
The other comment was simply referring to the old idea that the way children are raised can have a major influence on them. This is what the Bible itself teaches. “Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it” (Proverbs 22:6, KJV). Some people today (like yourself, for example) would like to make it sound like everything is totally random and that there is no right way to raise children that works out better than some other wrong way.
Your angry, foul-mouthed, insulting attempt to deny any link whatsoever between the parent's child-rearing and the way the child turns out really makes one wonder about the results of your own angry, foul-mouthed, insulting behavior on any children that you might have had. Is that why you want so desperately to totally sever any possible causal link between your own bad behavior and the behavior of your children?
Furthermore, was your angry, foul-mouthed, insulting habit passed on to you from your own parents? Is it a multi-generational thing?
Just respectfully wondering.
Anonymous (11:42)
Where is it "stretched" and "tortured"? How do you interpret this scripture and how do you support it?
NEO
2:59PM here. Thanks for your 8:14 reply. I find it interesting, but I have trouble agreeing because of the context supplied by preceding verse Mark 8:38. To me the best interpretation is that the message was for the immediate audience and not for 2000 years later. Maybe I have been reading too much preterist material on-line. Sorry to all for wandering OT, it's just that exposure to Armstrongism (never a member) in recent years after stumbling across some of their websites started me down a path of questioning my protestant Sunday school teachings. Not sure where that's leading, and not sure that's a bad thing. 11:42PM comes across as a little harsh, but I agree there are a lot of stretched/twisted interpretations out there. Good of you to engage NEO, not sure I was expecting to see a reply.
12:48pm Isn't it hilarious how brave people are when they're anonymous?
km
Anonymous (2:00)
Mark 8:38 does in fact make a reference to the logistical Return of Christ. We must ask how this verse and Mark 9:1 are related. Is there a topical flow between the two? There is a demarcation of a transition between the two verses with the words "And he said to them" (ESV) as if 9:1 may have been spoken at another time and place. To me, your argument would be best supported if there was a single unbroken thread between these verses and I am not sure we can posit that.
Another issue that argues against connecting the logistical Return in verse 38 with the spiritual/ideological interjection of the Kingdom in verse 1 of chapter 9: Christ in Matthew 24:36 states that he himself does not know when he will return logistically. Why would Christ then in 9:1 make a contravening statement predicated on the idea that he does know when he will return? This supports the immediate spiritual/ideological coming of the Kingdom rather than Christ's logistical Return for verse 9:1.
4:56 PM said...“12:48pm Isn't it hilarious how brave people are when they're anonymous?”
Yes, that is exactly what I think too about that angry, foul-mouthed guy.
A preacher once mentioned in one of his books that sometimes bad things like fear or worry or anger can run in families for generations. Someone needs to be the one to stop it.
If this is the same foul mouth guy that had previously been on here, he is or was a commercial airline pilot. Would you want this angry guy flying your plane? Now he preaches sacred name crap and produces stupid videos on prophecy.
Cut me a hickory switch,Jed
Mr. Drysdale and Miss Hathaway would never have let ol' Jed throw his money away on an ACOG!
BB
Not as hilarious as three fake personas.
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