It is time boys and girls for the weekly Friday Night Love Letter To The Brethren Smackdown!
This week is about LCG members who are looking for loose bricks in the walls of the LCG that they can pull out when they disagree with leaders, misspoken words, poor understanding of sermons, doctrines, or editorial mistakes. LCG members seem to forget that there are NO PERFECT leaders in the LCG. Instead, LCG members need to realize that God is using the present-day imperfect leaders on the same scale he used Moses, Aaron, Samuel, David, Peter, and Paul in the past.
Seriously?
Winnail expects us to believe that today's LCG leadership is on the same level as Biblical leaders of old?
Loose Bricks or Big Picture: Over the years, many have come into contact with the Church and have been excited to learn the Truth. Others have been grateful to reconnect after having been away. Still others who have been part of the Church begin to look for loose bricks. From time to time, some begin to focus on doctrinal teachings or decisions they disagree with, editorial mistakes, misspoken (or misunderstood) words in a sermon, or personal offenses they have seen or experienced. It is easy to forget that no one is perfect and that God has used imperfect people down through the ages to do His Work—Moses, Aaron, Samuel, David, Peter, and Paul. To avoid slipping into this negative trap, we need to stay focused on the big picture. Is there a God? Is the Bible His inspired word? Does God have a Church? Where is it today? Where is the Gospel being powerfully preached? Who has had a more sure word of prophecy? Who is warning the world about sobering events that lie just ahead, before the imminent return of Jesus Christ? Who is preparing a people for the coming Kingdom of God? We need to stay focused on this big picture and not get caught up looking for loose bricks!
Have a profitable Sabbath, Douglas S. Winnail
Notice where Winnail tells us that we need to place our focus:
Is there a God?
Is the Bible His inspired word?
Does God have a church?
Where is that church today?
Where is the Gospel being powerfully preached?
Who has the more sure word of propehcy?
Who is warning the world about sobering events that lie ahead before Christ returns?
Who is preparing a people for the Kingdom of God?
Notice that the focus is entirely upon the physical aspects of who is doing the better job. Nowhere is anyone encouraged to find rest in the words of Jesus. No one is told about the grace and peace that comes from being a follower of The Way. What good is some Mickey Mouse Kingdom that the COG preaches about without Jesus being part of the message?
All any of us witness anymore with the various COG's in a constant pissing battle over who is doing things the best. LCG and Thiel battle over who has the "sure word of prophecy". Each COG claims they are the one true church, above all other COG's. No one is preaching a more powerful message than LCG, Bob Thiel, Gerald Flurry, Ron Weinland, or Dave Pack. People are so sick of this endless pissing contest that most no longer care. Most no longer want to be in the Mickey Mouse Kingdoms they're all promoting.
62 comments:
Hey, you work harder than Doug Winnail. You've posted four different comments on the same text published again and again in the LCG weekly update.
May 3, 2013
https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2013/05/doug-winnail-says-stop-trying-to-find.html
June 3, 2017
https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2017/06/lcg-is-it-one-big-happy-family-or-is.html
September 1, 2020
https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2020/09/lcg-doesnt-appreciate-naughty-members.html
It is easy to forget that no one is perfect and that God has used imperfect people down through the ages
Doug and Gerald conveniently forget this when one of those imperfect people works for them. You only get to be imperfect if you are Doug or Gerald, or are enough of a suck-up to them. If LCG brethren judged Doug and Gerald by the standard Doug and Gerald use to hire and fire people, they would "fire" Doug and Gerald and start attending elsewhere.
When Doug buys a house, does he look for one where the builder kept an eye on the big picture but didn't worry about loose bricks? I don't think so. Doug wants to be able to keep loose bricks in his teaching and leadership, while rejecting others for their loose bricks.
Perfectionistic societies ALWAYS have people who are looking around for "loose bricks".
Because the claim of infallibility is made by the institution, and because any such claim is impossible to uphold in any human grouping, you thus provide the opportunity for scuttlebutt.
The solution??-- Stop trying to pretend that you are always perfect, and are "all knowing". Facilitate and promote the idea of self accountability and self reason, and realize that there is NO SUCH THING as any group that are perfect "Yellow Pencils" in complete conformity to all standards.
Stick to the 10 commandments, and then let the rest fall to where it may.
Looking for loose bricks. What happened to the Spokesman's Club encouragement, Iron sharpens iron?
They are workaholics on this Banned blog. They never take a holiday.
Doug asked where is the gospel being preached powerfully? Who has the sure word of prophecy?
What you have is a group of tired old members. You have a bunch of tired old ministers. They preach long boring sermons. Same script from 50 to 60 years ago. Dick Ames preaches the same thing over and over. 4 horsemen of Revelation. Revival of Roman Empire. We don’t have much time left,
Here is their sure word of prophecy! We only have about maybe 2 to 5 years left. That is their prophecy!
Wouldn’t it be great to hear a sermon where they encouraged the members to help some needy family? Wouldn’t it be great to hear a sermon on going to a senior citizen’s home and just sitting and talking to them. Ask them about past experiences. Just bringing some joy into their lives. What a boring church LCG must be.
Jim-AZ
Looking for loose bricks? Winnail should not be wasting people’s time with such non-biblical trivialities when it is the Cornerstone that is blatantly missing from the LCG!
All the bricks in LCG are shamefully loose because they are not built on the right foundation.
The people of LCG should be examining each loose brick - instead of accepting it, they should be demanding explanations. LCG should start with Winnail - why pay him such a large salary to produce nonsense and attempts to get the people to accept his loose bricks?
1 Peter 2:6
For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”
Jim said:
“Wouldn’t it be great to hear a sermon where they encouraged the members to help some needy family? Wouldn’t it be great to hear a sermon on going to a senior citizen’s home and just sitting and talking to them. Ask them about past experiences. Just bringing some joy into their lives. What a boring church LCG must be.“
Jim, I have an idea. Why not set up a plan on this blog to get all here involved, and set the example for all the cogs, and start helping needy families, etc. Then brag like crazy about it in order to shame them. You know, like get the log out so we can then remove the splinter. Better still, get the blog leaders to start all this positive example stuff. Just think of it!
You have to think outside the box ��. Realize that God's ways are so much better and infinitely greater than man's ways. Man tends to try to reduce and limit God, to make Him fit their puny little inventions. We serve and obey a great majestic Creator. As high as heaven is above the earth, where He sits on His throne ruling over the whole universe, so much greater and higher are His ways, plans, and purposes, for creating man! then our ways and purposes, that our puny little minds can't even conceive of it. Little minds focus on people. Big minds focus on the big picture, God's purpose in creating man on the earth. Those who are called by God the Father can become part of God's family I have no doubt this in fact I'm absolutely certain.
Well, of course, there are loose bricks in the walls of the LCG because that is not the right meeting place! The only reason they even have some right doctrines and the name church of god still is because there are still some brethren there who have God's spirit keeping that group alive once they all return to home base I guarantee that LCG counterfeit will crumble.
True Christian (10:56), you wrote: "Little minds focus on people. Big minds focus on the big picture. . ."
All minds need to focus on people - because that is where the corruption and wickedness aggregate. Some people in a cult live in a dreamworld. They lose connection with earthly reality an sail among the bright and fabulous clouds. I can assure the landing is hard.
Why do I say this? I agree with just about everything you wrote in this comment. I don't know what it has to do with the Splinter group you belong to. You seem to have become dissociated from reality.
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Dear Banned by Hwa. I think that people need to have a structured way of praying on your knees to the true God —a PRAYER LIST you can work off of. It doesn't have to be the exact same type and style of prayer list that I use. You can build your own, using your imagination and brains God gave you, to THINK. Some people in the Church were telling me that we should never use any kind of prayer list whatsoever, but that we should only pray from the heart —whatever comes to mind, same as if you are talking to another person standing there. I first started hearing that back in Worldwide (WCG) days —about 30 years ago. That made me think that I have always, and still am, praying the wrong way —that there is only one right way to pray —some secret way that I haven't discovered yet. But I am just now beginning to realize that if there is some secret way that I haven't discovered yet, what they were telling me, then they probably didn't know what they were talking about, and didn't know the RIGHT WAY themselves. Because trying to PRAY that way, I wouldn't be able to pray at all, period. If I would believe and try to practice what they were telling me. Those people probably don't pray at all, and therefore are not qualified to tell others HOW TO pray —what they are not even able to do themselves. They are not Christian in God's sight, though they might be members of the visible corporation RCG or WCG. Most people, even in the Church, almost never pick up their Bible and study it (daily) like they should, so God isn't talking to them, to tell them HOW TO pray. So they wouldn't know what prayer is, even though they might think and tell you that they PRAY.
Dear Normalized Eigenvalue Orthogonal thank you for agreeing with everything I wrote in a comment and breaking God's health laws about what food to eat and not can probably impact someone's in a bad way. Studying old WCG literature that was written when the Church was on the right track, before Mr. Armstrong's death in January of 1986, and reading RCG literature, are basically both good, uplifting, inspiring and educational---what I would choose to do. Question for you: If you had ACCIDENTALLY, unintentionally (like I did) handed your brains (your mind) to somebody else —What would be the best way, that would give you the maximum chances of getting them back? (1) By staying and studying —EXERCISING your brains —in one spot —in your private bedroom? or (2) By moving around, going to the bathroom and other places, when it is not necessary to do so, when it is possible for you to have a container with tight lid, WITHIN REACH in the privacy of your bedroom —When you already learned by experience that the Devil can take advantage of you, causing you to become disoriented and lose your focus when you do so —because of your weak brains? It feels EXTREMELY GOOD —almost too good to be true —that finally I can stay in one spot, and not be sinning. Because I was brainwashed and PROGRAMMED incorrectly by the shunnish type of Amish and by my father: That it is WRONG to have your own privacy; or if you do have privacy —it is SIN to be there for an extended period of time. According to how they programmed my mind to think, is that it is a sin to be there doing your own work, exercising your brains, to do any kind of mental work. But instead you have to run outside in the morning —almost as soon as you wake up from sleep —and do hard physical work. You have to run outside and run wild like a mad dog, and lose control of your mind —lose control of your life frankly! by letting the Devil have it —by letting other people CONTROL your life and do your THINKING for you —make almost all your decisions for you, against your will. The 2 most IMPORTANT pieces of literature I write and publish, regarding the problem or CHALLENGE I am facing in REAL LIFE —that would address/ SPEAK OF the effects of my condition of having a WEAK MIND (brains) are titled: Is Your Life BALANCED? and: Are You Having Root Problems? because these 2 issues are the PROBLEMS or challenge I face, that I need help with: My life is NOT YET balanced, and I am still having ROOT PROBLEMS. My life is not even rooted and grounded and anchored into the RIGHT THING, into the modern 21st century civilized LIFE-STYLE, So naturally, there is no wonder it isn't BALANCED —what would you expect? No wonder my brains are not working as good as it should! I am not in good health because I get really bad headaches, because I have a weak mind (brains), since I did not eat enough meat and other brain food, which has enough of the right kinds of protein that my brains and other vital organs need, to develop and function properly. How about your brains —does it work properly? Is it strong enough to do the things you need to do? Are you in good health, Neo?
Something I don't quite understand about the COGs (all of them) is that they spend most of their time setting up a straw man of "mainstream" Christianity and then tearing it down. While they my have theological disagreements (which is fine) it seems a bit ungodly to slander (misrepresent) someone or a group to make your own point.
That being said, it's also a bit odd to always spend time tearing down people you simply disagree with. Preaching against something is fine. However, I have never heard a COG preacher (I have mostly heard the much less crazy ones) call out simple moral issues. There's abusive COGs, Catholics, SDAs, protestants, baptists, Jews, Muslims... The list goes on. Not ever have I heard ABUSE called out. It's always "pagan this pagan that".
David C. Pack's kids and EVERYONE ELSE that left RCG (the RIGHT MEETING PLACE) is going to ALL of their SALVATION. ALL of THEM is going to LOSE ALL of IT!!!!
Good question: "Is the Bible His inspired word?"
Missing question: "Is the Bible being preached accurately?"
Several COGs fall short on that one, more often than they should. Many radio preachers take more care with their words.
Loose bricks, that's so funny. When I left Church of God, The Eternal several years ago, that's exactly what their pastor Jon Brisby said to me, that I was looking for loose bricks. Those were his exact words.
The truth of it is that it was not loose bricks that I was looking for but literally had found bricks completely missing. I pointed this out. His teaching compared to his predecessors (mentor) compared to the Bible. His teaching did not match what the previous pastor general had taught on a topic, which did match with the Bible. He got so mad at me. I only started looking after he came after me for something he thought he had the area of authority in. I thank God every day that he allowed his bad behavior to manifest the areas of teaching that were corrupt, otherwise I may have never looked and would probably still be there listening to error.
Do as the Bereans did, that is exactly why that example is there.
"Looking for loose bricks" is another way of describing Jesus' parable of the wise and foolish builders. If you build your house on (the) Rock, there won't be loose bricks. Loose bricks are a sign that the builder hasn't built on the proper foundation. "Don't look for loose bricks" is an evil demand that goes against Jesus Christ's own words.
Doug has a few bricks loose if he thinks LCG is powerfully preaching the Gospel.
The LCG gospel has little to do with grace, justification, or Savior Jesus - so it can't be the real Gospel.
However, as far as the COG gospel goes, only the brainwashed would believe that LCG is powerfully doing anything.
LCG has trouble getting their weak gospel to a very small fraction of the population. The public is not interested in the LCG gospel and a very few people will start attending.
If the LCG was powerfully doing anything, Doug would be bragging about all the specific stats.
"..we need to stay focused on the big picture."
This is straight out of 'Despotism for dummies.' The technique is called redirection. If an governments evil or incompetence is called out, refocus your citizens attention on foreign enemies, their evil foreign press, dissidents etc.
The China Communist Party is widely criticized for doing this with its incompetent reaction to the recent floods.
you are correct 10:06 PM, this is typical COG control tactics to tell the brainwashed to look away from all the failure and craziness in their church and keep your eyes on the their version of the Kingdom.
However, the unspoken control factor in Winnail's smackdown is the fact that the COGs have taught the people to believe that they can loose their salvation or the Kingdom if they disagree with or leave the COG.
This is spiritual abuse!
Aren't there several definitions of "the Gospel" or the Good News? Jesus preached that the Kingdom of God was at hand. Meaning, as I understand it, that He was the Messiah, offering the kingdom to the Jews. They rejected him. Then the Gospel went to the Gentiles. Didn't Paul define the Gospel in I Cor 15 as the good news of the resurrection of Jesus? There we have two definitions: the Messiah has come to rule and the resurrection of the Messiah. The blind, deaf and possessed who were healed. That was "good news" also. Is it not "good news" that Jesus will return for his bride? The problem with HWA's focus was that it was too narrow. He preached that the Messiah was coming again, but didn't preach the gospel that our sins have been forgiven, by grace through faith. We have scholars who specialize in different areas of theology, apologetics, prophecy, etc. but HWA and any church should be preaching everything. HWA focused on CHURCH GOVERNMENT! THE MOSAIC LAW! AND PROPHECY! He also distorted what the Bible taught and then minimized so many areas of truths. Yes, I believe that the Bible teaches that Jesus is coming again, but it teaches so much more, much of it was ignored by HWA.
What; LCG has a more sure word of prophecy?
Did I miss something?
When has LCG ever been right about anything they have prophesied?
Spanky Meredith has to be just behind Pervie Herbie in documented false prophesies.
LCG has continued the same pattern of looking at typical events and saying that things are starting to come together, it won't be but another five to seven years.
This is false pattern is more than a loose brick in LCG's documented history.
All the time they spend raising money from the poor people by hooking them on false prophesies is also time they divert the people from learning what would truly be of value to their spiritual lives.
LCG's prophesies are dangerous!
It is obvious that Doug is acting like an unconverted disciple comparing himself with others, comparing his splintered organization with other orgs, and why? Let's hear it from some unconverted disciples:
Mt 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Mr 9:34 But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who [should be] the greatest.
Lu 22:24 And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
Doug thinks his Mickey Mouse organization is the greatest, but where is the proof? Doug continues to lord it over others, so long as they allow it, so yes, Doug will continue to witness strife and disputes and debates among themselves....among a bunch of loose bricks.
Doug, do you want the big picture? Try this:
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." John 3:17
And God has accomplished that by His Spirit through His Son AND without any assistance from Doug, Doug's current organization, or the previous ones he was a part of (United Ass.) and WCG.
Does Doug like debate, comparing one another etc.? Cause?
Romans 1:29 "Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, DEBATE, deceit, malignity; whisperers,"
Sounds like something the unconverted would be involved in! Is envy involved among these organizational leaders too? Yes, see James 4:5!
Doug, do you want the big picture? Try this:
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world." I John 2:2
Doug notice the concern for this world, this whole world, and not just for "where the true church is!"
Again, God's Plan will take care of saving all humanity, and then destroying Satan and His angels, whereas Doug's Mickey Mouse gospel has a bunch of losers and failures attached to it. Loose bricks, Doug? Maybe some of your followers are seeing what you refuse to acknowledge. Acknowledge what?
Is the living group/organization God's one Church, or is it really just another splinter counterfeit organization acting like it is driven, inspired, by some angel of light?
Time will tell...
Doug, your organization still preaches a Mickey Mouse Millennium expecting another Jesus to very soon return and reign on earth, and that is still patently false, a false satanic theory.
Remove some loose bricks and come to acknowledge that God's Kingdom won't be established on earth, with the real Jesus Christ reigning, until some time after Satan is loosed from that bottomless pit and all enemies are subdues, put down.
Doug, get the big picture in order to see what bricks need to be removed, but...
When will Doug get the real "Big Picture," and get away from his counterfeit theory of it?
Again, time will tell...
John
Spanky Meredith has to be just behind Pervie Herbie in documented false prophesies.
In 1995, listening to Rod Meredith giving a sermon, I dutifully wrote in my notes: "Christ returning in 5 to 15 years."
I left LCG in 2011 with a clear conscience and documented proof that Meredith was a fraud and a liar and that LCG was a false church.
True Christian (3:53)
My guess is that American english is not your first language. The comment at 3:53 is intelligible but grammatically marginal. I would place your origin in the Carribean some place. Your first language might be some form of creole english but you have been in the USA for a while.
My impression is that you are long in Armstrongist practice and standard Armstrongist talk but short in Christian theology. You might be a troll and "True Christian" might be a moniker that is being used by more than one person. And your moniker has a hubris about it that makes me think you are not likely to be a true Christian - maybe a true Armstrongist.
I am riffing on this because the unusual style of your language eclipses the content of your writing - to the point of distraction.
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Well, at least we can wish True Christian a "Happy Sabbath"!
What the hell is you point NEO? Why the analysis as if it mattered and why do you get to decide "you are not likely to be a true Christian"?
NEO tends to condescend others.
When the members bring something up it is a loose brick, but when the ministry address an issue that they want to correct it isn't a loose brick.
Winnail says no one's perfect? Then why do they act as if they are, or the brethren should be?
They don't even know what it is to be perfect.
1.34 PM
The bible commands "prove all things." Since this offends you, why do you come to this site?
When I attended services, members complained about the anti thinking church culture. How dare anyone challenge the feel good church lies.
Most of the so called ministers in LCG are LOOSE BRICKS because they depend on THEMSELVES and their FALSE doctrine and NOT on the ROCK!! Jesus Christ said that “HE would build HIS church.........” He has FAITHFUL and DEDICATED ministers but you WON’T find them in LCG because they have all been led astray by WOLVES masquerading as sheep!! “By their FRUITS you will KNOW them”!! Doug Winnail disqualified himself from being a minister a LONG TIME AGO when he REMARRIED his EX-wife which is in DIRECT CONFLICT with the scriptures!! (Matthew 5:32) “But I say to you, whoever shall divorce his wife, except for the cause of sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and WHOEVER SHALL MARRY HER WHO HAS BEEN DIVORCED **IS** COMMITTING ADULTERY”!! Why don’t you address this Doug???? Perhaps you feel guilty and that is why you feel it necessary to constantly berate the brethren!! *YOU* ARE THE LOOSE BRICK!!
Most of the so called ministers in LCG are LOOSE BRICKS because they depend on THEMSELVES and their FALSE doctrine and NOT on the ROCK!! Jesus Christ said that “HE would build HIS church.........” He has FAITHFUL and DEDICATED ministers but you WON’T find them in LCG because they have all been led astray by WOLVES masquerading as sheep!! “By their FRUITS you will KNOW them”!! Doug Winnail disqualified himself from being a minister a LONG TIME AGO when he REMARRIED his EX-wife which is in DIRECT CONFLICT with the scriptures!! (Matthew 5:32) “But I say to you, whoever shall divorce his wife, except for the cause of sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and WHOEVER SHALL MARRY HER WHO HAS BEEN DIVORCED **IS** COMMITTING ADULTERY”!! Why don’t you address this Doug???? Perhaps you feel guilty and that is why you feel it necessary to constantly berate the brethren!! *YOU* ARE THE LOOSE BRICK!!
2:57 PM The worldly churches don't have people in God's church in them and even many splinters don't either, there's only one meeting where the true Church (the spiritual body) is unified, although there are some Laodiceans scattered in the splinters, remember that The Laodiceans are also part of God's church because Laodiceans still have some of the Spirit of God, but God will take them to the true meeting place eventually, but if you don't go to the true meeting place, they will lose the spirit of God, but the only thing I can guarantee you is that the worldly churches don't have any of God's people there at all.
The bible is full of loose bricks.
This world is not living God's way of "giving," but Satan's wrong way of "getting." Because Satan is still ruling the whole world 🌎 today and has been for the past unhappy6,000 years now. But not for much longer. Jesus Christ and the resurrected saints will soon be ruling over the whole world 🌎, taking Satan's place. And then everybody will learn how to live God's way of "giving." Then, as a result of that, everybody will be living the right way. Earth is going to be turned into a garden paradise. Everybody will be happy and successful in life. It's just that almost everyone today is breaking God's laws, which makes us feel unhappy. Most people are living in human wretchedness, in poverty in filth are squalor today and for the last 6,000 years now, because of that very thing, living the wrong way, Satan's false way of "getting" instead of God's true way of "giving."
True C,
I hope your life becomes more settled through the Lord. Pack has not been good for you. Just know that there is a simplicity in Christ that will change, but settle, your life.
"The technique is called redirection. If an governments evil or incompetence is called out, refocus your citizens attention on foreign enemies ... "
That's old style. Now the technique is to scare the poop out of people with a computer model said to be a virus at large in the real world, when the death rate is no higher than a normal flu season and the symptoms are the same. Then cancel camp and trust in the All-Powerful Infinite God to (hopefully) defeat the nonexistent virus. Then claim victory and wisdom on par with Solomon.
After living on this planet for 1324 years, I have finally come to the conclusion that people are slow learners.
RSK at 8:35 AM, saying: "Happy Sabbath" is a SIN because God's people don't do it
There is no proper way to define what a "true" Christian is. There is too much inconsistency in the Bible, in Church history, and too much confusion about what even the canon should be.
Nah, that sounds more like your own hangup.
This reminds me of HWA claiming that Satan was using make up to get the church off track. He manipulatively made a mountain out of a molehill in order to get his way. Loose bricks is another example of turning a mountain into a molehill or visa versa. The bible condemns unjust weights.
Anon 8:12 PM so what inconsistency do you think is the Bible?
The COGs have had difficulty with the idea of perfect/imperfect leaders. On the one hand, the brand of Armstrong COGs has been "the plain truth", "restored truths", "keys to understanding", etc. The implication is that the true church (which is to say, the authorities of the church, which is to say, the ministers in their hierarchy, under Jesus Christ) can be trusted to be right. Doctrinal perfection is implied.
Curiously, this seems to destabilize COGs, because as soon as someone reads the Bible enough to notice that a minister has said something incorrect, the edifice of church authority founded on "the plain truth" collapses. If a minister finds themselves defending a doctrine resorting to the phrase, "the church has always taught", with no better defense, then that's a symptom of that weak foundation of dogma of church doctrinal perfection. Whereas, if a church were more humble and say, "we strive to grow in grace and knowledge, and we don't think we know everything", it wouldn't be so chaotically destabilized by imperfection. Rather, it would be strengthened.
As long as people embrace the "true church with the plain truth" mentality, then the COGs are doomed to split ever more finely over smaller and smaller doctrinal differences.
I'm reading the LCGs August 2021 issue of Tomorrows World. On page 8 they write that on Christs return, people will have "Godly liberty and Godly freedom." So it's not freedom and liberty, but Godly liberty and freedom. LCG members are already experiencing this Godly freedom by being treated like children and acting by permission rather than by right. So no rights in tomorrow's world or the kingdom. Only Godly freedom.
If Doug divorced his wife, then remarried her, in God's sight, isn't this a reconciliation rather than a remarriage? Doesn't the passage refer to someone else marrying a divorced person as being adultery?
Someone wrote, that true Christians aren't to be found in the world's churches? May I ask when the last time you've been to any of the worldly churches? Can true Christians be attending a worldly church considering it a "mission field" where they can be salt and light to them?
HWA taught, Go into all the world . . preach . . teach . .". So, why not go and sit in a Bible study at the local Methodist Church or other mainstream church and contribute to the discussion in a Bible study? Don't you want them to learn "the truth."
True Christian name is a fake troll designed to stir up debate.
If Doug divorced his wife, then remarried her, in God's sight, isn't this a reconciliation rather than a remarriage? Doesn't the passage refer to someone else marrying a divorced person as being adultery?
After divorcing Doug, his ex-wife married another man, then divorced that other man, before marrying Doug again. That's where the Biblical statute comes in.
A fatal loose brick in LCG is its rejection of the Doctrine of Justification.
To Doug's shame, he has no use for any verses that include the concept of justification by the righteousness of Jesus. You can quote the verse below to a COGlodyte, and they are wholly uninterested in the topic:
Romans 3:21–26 “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” (vv. 23–24).
It's a marvel to see how uniformly uninterested COGlodytes are in what Jesus has done for us; throw into the conversation the word grace and they close down completely - because you are encroaching upon for their glorification of the law.
There would be no need for Doug's weekly whippings, if the people understood that they stand before God completely righteous - not because of their own works but, because of the perfect righteousness of Jesus being accounted to the Believer.
Christianity strives to magnify the work of Jesus, while the COGs magnify the individual's adherence to the Old Covenant law.
Acts 13:39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.
The COGs vilify the Roman Catholics as pagan heretics; yet, the COGs have much in common with the Catholics. One commonality is the belief in the importance of works to the salvation of the individual.
To the Catholics and the COGs, the work of Jesus Christ enables us to become better people, who can receive salvation if after a lifetime of good works, the individual was good enough. How good is good enough? That is never defined, so the people are constantly striving to do good, instead of resting in the finished work of Jesus.
The Catholics and the COGs reject faith in Jesus as a personal Savior as being enough for one to receive salvation. No, one must be a member of their church and do all the things that church demands must be done, in order to have any hope of salvation.
Romans 3:25-27 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.
anon 7:47 am you must keep the laws of God and must perform works with faith because faith without works is dead.
7:05 "True Christian name is a fake troll designed to stir up debate."
TC is no more a true Christian and a member of Dave Pack's cult than Bob Thiel is a true Christian and a legitimate COG leader.
Once again, I am a member of Mr. David C. Pack's restored Church of God, whether you believe it or not.
You know those "loose bricks" are actually the little leaven that leavens the whole lump. It's that little bit of weakness that spreads like WWCG and Global that can crumble a house. I thought members were commanded to prove or test all things. We are to fear God and not man.
10.14 AM
I don't believe you. You're a troll, a clown.
Anon 7:47 am, there are many New Testament scriptures that uphold obedience to God by those who are under the grace of our Lord Jesus. Eg Romans 3:8,31; 6:1-2; Revelation 12:17; 14:12; 22:14.
Hey 3:36 PM: this is Anon 7:47; I sense you are a COGlodyte because you totally ignored justification and went straight to the law.
Please show that you can acknowledge the biblical principle of justification! Please acknowledge that Jesus provides a righteousness that could not be obtained by the law!
Furthermore, Christians believe that obedience to God is important. However, the Doctrine of Justification states you can never be obedient or righteousness to earn salvation. Hallelujah however, we have a Savior whose righteousness guarantees our salvation.
Also of importance, COGlodytes don't know what obedience to God is under the New Covenant.
Christians glorify the Savior who saves; COGlodytes prefer to discuss obedience to the law because that is where their hope for salvation lies.
Hello 6:44 PM. When I didn't mention justification in my brief comment, that wasn't to imply it's not important (sorry about the triple negative). I am keen to affirm justification through Jesus Christ. He is my hope for salvation, holiness, freedom from bondage of sin. I believe what the Bible says, that we can't be justified by the law. Acts 13:38-39; Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:21; 3:21 — to mention a few scriptures.
I guess I'm a, well, a COG person (UCG). The journey has been an interesting one. In WCG's doctrinal changes in 1995, while I disagreed with the anti-Sabbath teachings, I thought the attention on grace and salvation through Jesus Christ was good. As a child in WCG, the YES lessons covered Old Testament scriptures thoroughly, to the total neglect of the New Testament, which in hindsight, I thought was a big mistake.
Hello Anonymous of August 2, 2021 at 6:00 AM: thanks for the response; I thoroughly enjoyed it!
I was moved and happy to read "I am keen to affirm justification through Jesus Christ. He is my hope for salvation, holiness, freedom from bondage of sin."
I was wrong, you are not a COGlodyte; you are someone who has ventured way beyond the theological cave confines of the COGs.
However, I am curious and concerned about why you still attend a COG. The sermons are as lacking as they are long. The people, at least the ones I know, prefer to worship the law, instead of the Savior.
I've attended a few great mainstream churches that preach grace each week. When I've been asked to join - I have always replied that I could never join their church.
The reason why is that there has always been a doctrine that I could not accept. Usually, it's the traditional version of hell that prevents me from joining. I'm stuck with a WCG understanding of hell. I cannot join another church with a traditional stance on hell because it goes against what I currently know about God. I would feel like I am betraying God.
So, if you understand justification and are motivated by what the righteousness of Jesus does for you, how can you attend, or be a member of, a church that is not interested in concepts like justification or grace? How does their lack of interest impact you?
Regardless, it is a thrilling pleasure to meet a COG attendee who expresses their feelings about Jesus, they way you did! I think you are the second one I've encountered - and both on this "satanic" website.
Thank you!
It is absolutely *NOT* a RECONCILIATION because she was MARRIED TO SOMEONE ELSE!! It is called ADULTERY!! R E A D the scripture!!!! A RECONCILIATION occurs BEFORE you DIVORCE!! Doug, is that YOU????? 🤣🤣
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