Here is another doozy of a Friday Night Smackdown for LCG members.
Apparently, there are some rather rebellious LCG members who dared to have opinions about LCG leadership. One guess is that these opinions are NOT highly favorable of the leadership.
How dare members dare to think! How dare members hold the leadership accountable. Those that do are deceitful human beings with carnal minds.
LCG and other COG's can't understand why people are leaving their churches, this is why! God forbid if a church member dared to use their God-given brain to form some logical thoughts through observations and experiences.
But please, have a profitable Sabbath!
Our Opinions or Christ’s Mind: How many times have you heard or made comments like, “Here’s how I see it,” “Here’s what I think,” or “Here’s how it should have been done.” Often these comments are directed at people in leadership positions—even in the Church. Moses was criticized by others (Numbers 16). Peter differed sharply with Jesus (Matthew 16:21–23). In both cases, those expressing critical opinions did not recognize the real source of their negative thoughts and actions. Before we share our “different” opinions, we need to remember God’s warning, “My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways” (Isaiah 55:8). We also need to remember the scriptural admonitions, “the carnal mind is enmity against God” and His ways—including His government (Romans 8:7) and “the heart is deceitful above all things” (Jeremiah 17:9). Before we begin spreading around our opinions, we need to develop a godly perspective that reflects the mind of Jesus Christ (Philippians 2:5) that we find outlined in Philippians 4:8.
Have a profitable Sabbath, Douglas S. Winnail
26 comments:
Authoritarian and totalitarian systems always blossom where uniformity of thought, regimentation, censorship, ideological purity and monopoly of power in the hands of a few, combined with fear are found.
The Church is not alone in exhibiting the same traits.
Lcog has demonstrated perfectly well it understands how totalitarian and authoritarian structures have found a place to roost within its walls.
To hold opinions contrary to the established order is a threat to church authorities even if those ‘opinions’ are well founded.
They have misused scripture, and are using it to stamp out dissenters.
A ‘church’ organisation using these tactics has no future.
Isaiah 55:8 with it's "My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways," has been hijacked as an attack on thinking. But it's not. God's higher thoughts and ways has a name. It's called the ten commandments. The "lower" ways is bully morally, which what the ministers really believe in. And bully morality/ totalitarianism works, no? After all, Esau did get his bowl of stew.
Did the apostle Paul offer "his opinion" about things in I Corthinians 7 - especially from verse 12 on?
Or does the fact that it wound up in Scripture show his "opinion" about that was wrong?
Doug Winnail, speaking like a babe again, wrote: "...Before we begin spreading around our opinions, we need to develop a godly perspective that reflects the mind of Jesus Christ (Philippians 2:5) that we find outlined in Philippians 4:8..."
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Doug, how about telling the people how to develop that "godly perspective?" There really is only one way: one needs to receive God's Spirit! Did that happen for you? If yes, then how? Doug, is it possible that you developed your own perspective of what you think Jesus' mind was like? After all, Jesus didn't develop His own mind. Jesus' God, the only true God of the Old Testament, developed it! He's a Teacher.
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Romans 8:9
What mind, via the Spirit of God, did Jesus have? The mind of the Father, who did the works in Jesus:
"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." John 14:10
God gets all of the praise, glory and honor for doing all of that, while your "godly perspective" gives all praise, glory and honor to self: yourSELF, and nothing to The God: that God of the Old Testament (Acts 3:13).
Doug, when you continue to believe Jesus, actually another Jesus, is the God of the Old Testament: that may be considered as idolatry, because you are placing something/someone else in place of the one true God (I Cor 8:6). Is that a "godly perspective of Jesus Christ?" No! Why not? Let Jesus Christ of the Bible tell you who His God was:
"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God." John 20:17
Why have the mind of "another Jesus?" Why not have the mind of Jesus Christ who knew about His God, the Father, the only true God of the Old Testament? Wouldn't Jesus desire to have the mind of His Father? Why stop at Jesus?
Doug, what is life eternal?
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3
Doug, perhaps you need to get off of the milk, spiritual milk, and teach about that only true God that Jesus mentioned!
Because you, via another spirit, have another gospel in mind when you still think that "another Jesus" is coming very soon/quickly, before all enemies are subdued, to reign on earth 1,000 years with babes like yourself, but is that really true, or is it "junk food," spiritually?
Time will tell...and make it a delightful Sabbath!
John
ministry= Jesus and Moses
lay members= a disbelieving Peter (associated w/ Satan) and Korah (swallowed up by the earth)
In that dichotomy put forth by LCG, I suppose the lay members better just abide the ministry.
Or, maybe though, the comparisons put forth by LCG aren't accurate. In that case, stay away from those ministers of LCG.
Now that's an impressive put down! "Before we share our “different” opinions, we need to remember God’s warning, “My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways” (Isaiah 55:8"
Classic. This pre-supposes that the thoughts of leadership are the same as the thoughts of God and by extention, are naturally not going to be thoughts of those lower in the food chain. They must be getting frustrated at HQ with the sheep expressing discomfort with the care of the Shepherds. "Helpers of their joy" and not thinking of themselves more highly than they ought to think of themselves must be a low priority these days.
Combatting Armstrongist propaganda has never been more challenging:
It manifests itself from a record number of power centers across the United States, in trendy, expensive places such as Charlotte NC where not only LCG have their opulent headquarters but also GCI, which is also doing very well by the way thank you very much, because, you see, making money in religion is the easiest thing in the world, as the supply of stupid people is endless!
I wonder what Christ thinks about LCG council of elders members covering for pedophiles. I wonder what Christ thinks about taking American political opinions and passing them off as prophecy and morality. I wonder what Christ thinks about letting adults be led by him without a middleman. I wonder what Christ thinks about some headquarters ministers that follow highly charged political media and come unglued after watching it. I wonder what Christ thinks about one of the council of elders members acting like a low grade Twitter troll. I wonder what Christ thinks about a leading minister lying about how his son was brought into the ministry. I wonder what Christ thinks about LCG trying to get their hands on the estates of the elderly. I wonder what Christ thinks about how miserly LCG is towards actually helping people. I could go on. Am I doing it right?
Doug cannot even cite Scripture properly. Romans 8:7 has ZERO to do with some absurd government of god nonsense. The chapter is talking about the flesh vs the spirit FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST! No more warring against our sinful nature, or trying to keep the law, for those who have received Jesus as Savior.
Too bad Dougie didn't cite the very first verse in Romans 8. Verse 1 tells us there is now NO CONDEMNATION for those in Christ Jesus. Oh no, he could never let the poor suffering members know they can let go of any fears they have about being sinners or not being good enough for God if they are saved. No no no. Must not let the tithe/law slaves know anything about the freedom that is in Christ!
How incredibly irresponsible and shameful. Sadly, it is exactly the same in most of these groups. Law, govt, law, govt, which always translates to do what we tell you and give us your money. Lather, rinse, repeat ad nauseam.
By republishing old thoughts, is Doug trying to show us how to move forward without thinking? Or is it just sad that Doug ran this as recently as April of 2021 yet feels he has to publish it again so soon? Too much of that stinkin' thinkin' must be going on in LCG!
Any successful organization WANTS feedback and input from their clientele.
This is the reason for surveys, customer reviews, yelp ratings and more. LCG and virtually all the COGs want to practice Klaus Schwab's New World Order declaration of "You will own nothing, and you will be happy about it"!
Combatting all Christianity is very difficult to do it is rare that a Christian changes his mind.
If LCG were actually God's true church any more than any other Christian church (whether sabbatatian as Jewish Christians, or Gentile as Sunday keeping Christians), then I suppose this would be good and proper advice. However, like all other church groups involving mankind, while the church is purposed in worshipping God, it would be a great mistake to equate the management of the church with God Himself in areas of authority. Just as individual members are flawed, so also are the ministers, and they will be until we are transformed. If a church was actually ruled by God to the extent that speaking with the ministers was equal and the same as speaking with God, and the results of those conversations were perfect 100% of the time, then people like Doug Winnail would not need to even bring up this subject. It would be self-obvious that thoughts which counter God came from another place.
The problem is that we've all encountered ministers who, for lack of a better term, were assholes, and who gave bad instruction or bad advice that hurt people. Informed by pragmatism, many members have seen this over the years, and have shed their naivite, and have simply avoided the ministers, shunning any type of counselling, keeping their heads down, and flying below the radar. The big mistake is that some people like to be very vocal, taking their counter opinions public, and it ends up getting back to the ministers. You wouldn't expect to keep your job very long if you used this same approach with management, so why think that it would be any different with church?
I guess that I've arrived at the point where my advice sounds just like Doug's advice. However, if my advice is more appealing to the reader, it is probably because I arrived at it through an entirely different thought process. It is based on fact and results, rather than on the theory that when a minister tells you something, it is equal to God having told you. These guys can't even agree amongst themselves, especially in Armstrongism. It's why there even are splinter groups in the first place.
Well here's a little Godly perspective for you Doug, Jeremiah 23:1, "For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered."
Why would anyone want to be apart of an organization that refuses to admit it's leadership is the driving force (the very tool) behind this hatefulness you see today in the church?
Paul, the apostle, knew the right thing to say and do. In this case, regarding leaders in the church:
Gal 2:11-14 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
We have the truth, thinks Doug (telling himself "I'm rich"). There are seven feasts, thinks Doug (No, only three-Ex 23:14-16). Tithing is lawful, thinks Doug (No, not commanded by law today). Wow. Laodicean through and through. There is so much, Doug, for you to learn.
Doug says God's law (Rom 8:7) is equivalent to God's government. LCG defines God's government as being a top-down strict hierarchical structure. So, what Doug is saying is that having an opinion that that is not the same as Gerald Weston's opinion is the equivalent of murder.
what Doug is saying is that having an opinion that that is not the same as Gerald Weston's opinion is the equivalent of murder.
That can't be. Doug has opinions that are not the same as Gerald Weston's, and it seems not to bother him. What Doug is saying is that you should not EXPRESS your different opinion unless Gerald or his representative asks you. But anyone who has been around the ACOGs already knows that it's risky to express your opinion to a minister unless you are sure you agree with him.
LCG overlords:
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/b10c5277-a1e3-4233-a996-e70f9e1bdb03
What is this? More of our LCG ministers trying to pull rank in order to frighten people and keep them down and get their own way. Gerald Weston and these ministers use the examples of Moses and the Israelites to frighten people, as if to say if the members disagree with God's government, and that means these ministers, that God will get them and they will be punished. Maybe even be delivered to Satan, or be in the lake of fire if they don't smarten up and submit to the LCG ministry and tow the line. God was angry with some of the Israelites, not because they disagreed with Moses, but because they tried to usurp his office. Also, Moses was a prophet, and he was a type of Christ. These LCG ministers are not. Don't be afraid to think and to prove all things, my LCG friends. I remember once in services when Gerald Weston was cheesed off at some in our congregation. They had disagreed with him on several local matters of obvious immorality. So to cover himself Weston yelled to the entire group and claimed, "and remember this. Even if we ministers are wrong, God was angry with the people, not Moses." Well this is such an abuse of the scriptures and of God's sheep that it should truly wake people up. Don't be afraid, LCG people, to think and to worship God, and do not be fooled. When we were called and baptized and converted, we were called to unconditionally surrender to God our Father and Jesus our Savior, NOT to blindly obey some way off old man fossil who works for this or that church of God corporation and who so twists the holy scriptures to keep his power. Just thinkk now. do you really really believe deep down inside that caving into a snake in the grass like GW and crafty Doug Winnail is the same as obedience to God himself? Think, now. Really?
Agreed Anonymous 5:29:00 PM. I would say that members unconditionally obeying their ministers could even be a form of idolatry. All wrapped up in a package of correct docctrines, so it seems right to do so on the surface. Even if we do what is right, if your focus is on our ministers through whom we obey God, then we commit idolatry. It isn't about submitting to God's ministers as his government. It is about submitting to God. So it is possible to be obeying God in a sense but actually worship the ministry. Ministers have their place in the new testament church, but it is not as God's proxy men. I'd like to have heard Gerald Weston spouting off such blasphemous stuff like "even if we ministers are wrong remember this that God was angry with the people not Moses." In other words he was saying that god's true ministers can do and say what they want and God will back them up. Is this what the LCg people truly feel and know deep down inside? Really? Is this really what the bible teaches?
What? Did Weston forget that the Lord was angry with Moses too which kept Moses from entering the promised land? The same may happen to him if he keeps abusing the sheep.
As for Jer 10:21 (incorrectly stated as Jer 23:1), that verse too is for the ministry.
"The shepherds have become stupid (baar, consumed, burnt out) and have not sought the Lord. Therefore they are not wise and all their flocks are scattered."
I'm sure that some of the wannabe leaders agree with what Doug has posted. This is why they close the comment section of their blogs and You Tube videos.
One of the reasons I like to come here is that I find that the opinions of others from different experiences and perspectives enhances the learning experiences we all undergo through daily life.
For LCG members who have come to believe that obeying the ministers, no matter what is synonymous with obedience and submission to God, do read and understand the account in 1 Kings 13. God is first and foremost, even if another says that they are also of God as his true ministers as part of the Government Of God. No one is above the rules. When God speaks the matter is settled. Also look at Galatians 1:8-9. Even if the old prophet had been of God, the man of God should have confirmed with God first and foremost. Being wrong about a matter, deception and lying can result in the same thing. So, do not unconditionally submit to these ministers and falsely believe that in so doing you are obeying God by submitting to his government. Besides, God's "government" would never do the things these LCG ministers do, and they would not lay upon their members burdens they themselves would not carry.
Matthew 23:15
In the parlance of our times, most of the "ministers of God" in Armstrongism are actually MOGINOs.
MOGINO
Priceless!
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